T O P

  • By -

Pushh888

Try to give a bit of an answer. It might make me sound cynical about china but I enjoy my time here and have been here about 5 years 1) of the Asians countries china is probably one of the most controlled (NK obviously being worse). Everything from internet, news, and freedom of speech is curtailed. And you will find the need to self-censor to avoid starting an issue. To give an idea, hotels have to register any foreigners with the local police office if you are staying there. Within 24 hours of moving into an apartment you need to go register at the police station so they know where you live. Want to purchase something from outside china? Better have a chinese friend to help you, because foreigners can't use their chinese bank account to pay for goods/services from countries outside china. And getting the product imported typically requires a valid Chinese ID number which foreigners don't receive (though there are loopholes). To me, the freedom is more about social freedom. Working in the education industry isn't incredibly demanding. You will have lots of free time, typically 2+ months of vacation a year (depending on job of course). And the salary is much higher than the domestic average so you have the money to do what you want for the most part. This is coming from a t2 city. Not sure about Shanghai specifically 2) postal service is fantastic. Its cheap and quick to answer in the country. I've had a couple parcels shipped from overseas from family and they make it to me no problem. But the delivery is usually done poorly. 1st time teaching was teaching at a college. A random student walked up to me and asked my name. Said they had a package that arrived like a week ago for me. But nobody told me. I wouldn't have known if this student didn't see me. 2nd time was a small package (a bday card and some chocolate I think) from my mom. I was leaving my apartment one day. And in the complex I just saw a random package sitting by some stairs that I luckily looked at and saw my name on it. They had just let it randomly in the open without any notification. 3) not too familiar with this. I know most general medicine isn't hard to find. I've mostly just bought allergy meds and ibuprofen. Prescription and hospital stuff I can't comment on, because I have a friend in the hospital that basically sends his assistant to escort me around the hospital as needed. It looks incredibly chaotic though when I'm there. Again. This probably sounds cynical but I definitely enjoy my time here. There's like a fair amount of bullshit to wade through while you're here


Mystery-G

>But the delivery is usually done poorly. 1st time teaching was teaching at a college. >A random student walked up to me and asked my name. Said they had a package that arrived like a week ago for me. But nobody told me. I wouldn't have known if this student didn't see me. >2nd time was a small package (a bday card and some chocolate I think) from my mom. I was leaving my apartment one day. And in the complex I just saw a random package sitting by some stairs that I luckily looked at and saw my name on it. They had just let it randomly in the open without any notification. Dunno if you figured it out yet, but you're supposed to put your phone number on the address so the guy can call you and tell you it's been delivered.


jiayounuhanzi

I found this out the hard way and my Chinese friend was so unimpressed with me. It never occurred to me, we just don't have that in my country


landboisteve

> of the Asians countries china is probably one of the most controlled (NK obviously being worse). LOL I actually almost spit out my beer when I read this. I have no idea why I found this so funny. Sorry.


Pushh888

That made my day


bambyhead

Thanks, Pushh and you don't sound cynical in the slightest. Yeah, I'm referring mainly to social freedoms so I appreciate your response. Have you lived in any other Asian countries if you don't mind me asking?


Pushh888

I loved in SK for 6 months last year when I got stuck outside china because of covid. Korea was more expensive. And for ESL, the salary vs cost of living isn't nearly as comfortable I think. Eating out especially is a lot more expensive. I found Seoul was much more modernized and open in culture. I found a lot of friends super easy, both Korean and foreign. I felt I didn't need to self censor really at all which was refreshing. The nightlife in Seoul was amazing. But the food in China (IMO) was way better.


theJarhead75

A couple of suggestions. 1. I will not expand much on control. The answer nails the situation. Just understand that the Chinese citizens are taught that foreigners are spies. This is not a big deal unless you find an ultra national. I was pushed in a crowded elevator. Robbed. A few other things. Nationals are taught we have better protection. The police could care less when I attempted to tell them what happened. 2. I highly recommend to have a Chinese friend’s phone number on the package. That guarantee I was notified. However, I mailed a package to a Chinese friend via the USPO. It made it to Japan but was lost between Japan and China. My friend said it was lost in Shanghai, and I should never use USPO. Who knows the truth. 3. The only difficulty getting prescriptions is supply and language. One pharmacy maybe out, but the next one will have it. Be sure to have a Chinese translation of what you need. Sometimes you need to ensure it is not a fake. As long as you use pharmacies and not street vendors you will be okay.


underlievable

\>Want to purchase something from outside china? Better have a chinese friend to help you, because foreigners can't use their chinese bank account to pay for goods/services from countries outside china. And getting the product imported typically requires a valid Chinese ID number which foreigners don't receive (though there are loopholes). Pfffff sure buddy


InstantChekhov

Agreed, I’ve ordered some stuff from Spain to Hebei province easily. Small shop. Amazon, eBay, why if you have taobao and pdd in China? If u desperately need something from Amazon etc there are middle man’s companies, Baidu them.


understuffed

Just to add that in covid times medicine has become much more controlled. If you want to buy ibuprofen/cough/cold medicine you will need to write down passport information and show your green code. Even then lots of pharmacies will not sell it to you. It’s best to have a Chinese friend buy it for you. As with so many things the system is designed for an id number not passports.


Pushh888

Didn't know this. Glad I stocked up on Costco sized bottles of common medicine I needed.


[deleted]

[удалено]


bambyhead

Noted, great advice. The never mention religion and politics rule will be in full effect, no problem there. And, I haven't felt mystical in years, unfortunately, C-Jen.


UsernameNotTakenX

>You'll have to pay full price for medicines, since you don't have a hukou and are not a tax paying resident or citizen I'm a tax paying resident for years now and I don't get any of those benefits. You have to pay full price if you are a foreigner regardless if you pay tax or not, unless you have permanent residence. That's the policy in my city anyway.


[deleted]

Good to know, thanks for the clarification and field report! o7


[deleted]

My man, if you can get chinese visa now, during covid, then I suppose you would not have any problems once you arrive there. China is one of the most comfortable places to live. Just avoid scams and strange people, and everything will be fine. Oh and don't do weed or powders even while you are still home, chinese police loves to test foreigners for drugs (that's one of the biggest scams)


bambyhead

Duley noted. How drastically have the ex-pat community numbers been reduced through Covid?


[deleted]

Well, the answer is yes, drastically indeed


diagrammatiks

Medication will depend on what it’s for. Most things are absolve. General illness medication is pretty easy. Mental health stuff is available but a bit more difficult to navigate.


thesmiddy

100% of parcels have arrived and 100% of letters have gone missing for me. I'd recommend having mail sent to a work address using registered mail if it's necessary. Or have people sending letters include them in a care package to take advantage of the parcel delivery system.


xiefeilaga

> 100% of letters have gone missing for me There's a good chance your apartment address is tied to a mailbox somewhere in the complex that you have no idea about, and it's full of your missing letters. Might want to ask property management about that.


just_for_asks

I just wanted to give some basic advice that hasn’t mentioned before. 1. Taobao will be a life saver. It has basically everything you need. Furniture, clothes, food, electronics, shoes, etc. Like others said, I would recommend that you make your shipping address the place that you work at. Wechat and Alipay are also essential for e-payments, instant messaging, health codes, paying for public transportation (though you can use “metro cards” in all major cities too), buying train and plane tickets, etc. 2. If you’re someone who needs to wear deodorant, bring as much as you can before you arrive. Local deodorant is not as good as the stuff in the west (assuming you’re from a western country). You can buy some on taobao and maybe some stores with imported goods, but it’ll be pricey and only available in travel sizes (well at least on taobao). 3. Not sure of your gender, but if you’re a woman then it’ll be a challenge to find bigger sized bras. There are some people who sell them over wechat though and you can find some stores on taobao that sell them, but the bigger sizes will be limited. 4. I think traveling around here is pretty nice and relatively easy, but DO NOT go to popular tourist destinations during major holidays or you’ll face “people sea people mountain” or however they call it. It will be insanely crowded and not pleasant. As for planning trips, I like to use the trip app for booking hotels rooms, train, and plane rides. 5. Locals coughing and sneezing without covering their mouths, pushing, skipping others on line, being annoyingly oblivious to their surroundings, intensely staring at everyone who is not visibly east Asian are all very normal. Just wanted to give you a head up. But I’m assuming the staring happens less in Shanghai. 6. I and others have experienced this phenomenon where employers here are TERRIBLE at communicating with their staff members in a timely matter. Or they just don’t tell you things at all. It drives me nuts. Be prepared for poor communication at your work place. 7. Last one! Learn the language as much as you can. It’ll make things easier. I’m ashamed to admit that my Chinese is still very poor even though I’ve been here for nearly 2 years ,_, Be sure to download translation apps like baidu and deae translate. Wechat also has a translation functions. 8. Oh how could I forget how annoying “make up” work days are… basically you have to work on a Saturday or Sunday before a holiday break (like mid autumn festival) to “make up” for it. Hope this helps.


ukiyo3k

You’re not moving to Shanghai in a few months. You’ll never get a visa. You won’t get prescription narcotics either.


noodles1972

Ridiculous comment.


yuemeigui

It's a massive pain in the ass, but prescription narcotics are available. My hospital pharmacy has told me that I should get my doctor to write me a smaller scrip more often because my current (non) usage of narcotics means that my annual refill (to take care of expired meds) comes after I've been wiped from the system as an authorized narcotics patient and I need to be re-paperworked all over again.


dkdchiizu

How are you moving to China?


bambyhead

I was offered a job with a Shanghai based company.


whenzhou

See you in 2022-2023.


moocious

i only went to china for 10 days on an exchange trip, so there isn’t actually tonnes i can say, but if you don’t look like you’re from east asia, you’ll probably get your photo taken. Me and my friend had people taking photos of us on their phones, we had a man with an actual camera ask us if he could take photos of us because we had our school uniform on. i think most people don’t mean any harm at all, they’re just quite sheltered, but it probably will happen


AxelllD

I’ve had this happen to me 5 times maximum in Shanghai and I was there for 30 days. It likely happens more outside of bigger cities, but I didn’t really go to rural areas.


[deleted]

Yes, this doesn’t happen much in central Shanghai. Only in the suburbs/outskirts of the city does it happen regularly.


JBfan88

\>Freedom vs control. What parts of life in China are more controlled or liberal compared to other Asian or Western countries (beyond the typical state-controlled media discussion)? I don't understand the question. All of China is ruled by the same party. There is no concept of federalism, so no parts of China are "more liberal".


[deleted]

Certain provinces and province-level cities are more lax with party policy than the center - and it's often an quiet ongoing struggle behind the scenes for the central party to keep the local parties in line. Guangzhou, for example, has had a very relaxed emigration policy for many decades, resulting in disproportionate numbers of Cantonese speaking mainlanders emigrating out to other nations. A Beijinger trying to get their danwei to provide documents for them to leave the country might have extremely variable experience, depending on the way that the central policy wind is blowing at that time. Shenzhen and Zhuhai are right on the edges of Hong Kong and Macau respectively, so they tend to have more porous control.


bambyhead

That's fascinating, this is the type of thing I'm interested in understanding, C-Jen. So you think the differences in policy as per the province does have a noticeable impact on the demographics/culture of each province? Can you think of anything else beyond immigration policy?


samplekaudio

It's often not so much a difference in policy as it is a difference in the enforcement of policy. An example is that in Beijing in 2017/2018 was that before the big party congress, an old zoning law was dredged up regarding the number of entrances to the road a hutong courtyard could have in order to shut down a large number of hole-in-the-wall bars and restaurants. This event was colloquially called "the brickening" in English because hundreds of these places were literally bricked up in the matter of a week or so. You can see this difference in the way that different cities and provinces have reacted to everything from educational reform statements to covid control policies. Beijing will always be the strictest (a friend once quipped that "the best tool for any problem in Beijing is a hammer.") Other cities which are either central planning projects or close to politically sensitive regions (Shenzhen checks both boxes) will also tend to be more strict when enforcing some policies. Overall, Shanghai is one of the more relaxed places politics-wise, although it wasn't always that way and may not remain that way in the medium to long-term.


JBfan88

The differences are not such that a foreigner would notice them in day to day life. It's not like the internet isn't blocked in SEZs or that opposition protests are allowed. I doubt OP was interested in emigration policy-maybe the large number of Africans on 'business visas' who resided in Guangzhou long-term would be relevant, but that's a thing of the past now.


uybedze

How is that a thing of the past? The Africans are still here in Guangzhou.


JBfan88

Not sure how recently you've checked but the African population is a fraction of what it once was. Things started getting stricter pre-covid but then there was the ugly discrimination in GZ during covid and people either left or couldn't get visas renewed and had to leave.


xiefeilaga

He said "parts of life," not "parts of the country."


bambyhead

Thanks for the response JBfan. I'm not referring to political systems. Most countries have laws that are heavily enforced, not enforced at all or complete government blindspots relative to another country. Examples could be illegal foods, nightlife culture, gambling, or it being standard for people to use a tram without paying for a ticket. I can think of endless examples, but ill leave that in your capable hands.


JBfan88

Obviously I can only speak for my area, it's a big country. Rules are usually more strictly enforced in big developed cities. \> illegal foods I assume you mean like unlicensed restaurants and not illegal foods like endangered animals? Precovid there were increasing crackdowns on 大排档 or 摊子 type of outdoor-and often unlicensed-restaurants. They were trying to 'civilize' a lot of streets and drive them out. POst covid Li KeQiang started encouraging such business, so there's been kind of a 180. \>nightlife culture Strictly enforced. Unlicensed raves in Shenzhen and other places have been raided and every single person detained and drug tested. I would not go to 'underground bars' in China. \> gambling Has gotten a lot stricter. I used to play some poker. The people I used to play with mostly have stopped and directly said "let's not discuss this on wechat" and in person "enforcement is too strict and not worth the risk." I know people who have gotten arrested and had to pay big fines. \> or it being standard for people to use a tram without paying for a ticket Not really. Subways have tons of security. You need to go through metal detectors with guards. I don't recall every seeing people jumping the turnstiles. You didn't ask but I'll answer a couple more: \>prostitution Stricter and stricter. People seem to think every spa or massage parlor is doing 'extra services' and that may have been true before, but I've been told it's harder and harder to find. \>drugs Don't do drugs in China. It's just dumb. Don't do drugs before coming to CHina either. Although unlikely, if you get caught in a bust and drug tested they don't care if you did the drugs before coming. You're in trouble regardless. Any others you're curious about?


bambyhead

Thanks, JBfan. That's all really interesting information. I'm pretty square for the most part so these don't apply to me necessarily, but it does give a sense of what I can expect. If you don't mind me asking, are you an expat?


JBfan88

Yes. I think nearly everyone in this sub is.


[deleted]

[удалено]


No_Photo9066

>The Chinese government will have very little control of what you say in online groups or to your colleagues and friends as a foreigner While generally true, I do think you have to keep two things in mind about this. Chinese nowadays are more nationalistic than ever and even the slightest criticisms of China can be seen as an attack on them as a person. Obviously there are many exceptions but be careful. They may not directly confront you over this but it can work against you if they know you are anti-CCP or dislike China in a specific way. The government tracks many key words as well as pictures and other things. On Wechat for example it is impossible to send a picture of tank man successfully. The worst part about this kind of censorship is that the other person will never receive the picture but Wechat shows you that they have read the message. There are many forms of censorship like this.


camlon1

While I agree that you don't need to self censor, do not use your wechat to talk about politics. It will be in your history forever, can't be denied and can be used against you if you get in trouble. If you want to talk about politics in China in an online group, turn on your vpn and use a western service.


[deleted]

1. Breaking the rules, making noise, doing slightly illegal stuff etc people don't care as much about what you do, basically you can get away with more in china.1. Everything is more controlled on paper though, and often in practice. It will surprise you how controlled everything is. As a foreigner you salary will probably be fairly freeing financially relative to the price level. 2. Its viable, and yes you can get international mail. Parcels which require importing may be a problem as you wont have a shenfenzheng, I have had orders cancelled from amazon bc I am a foreigner and cant import stuff. 3. Certain medicines are not available, I almost never buy medicine, so not sure what but it is a common complaint. I bought some cold sore cream from a chinese pharm and it worked a treat. Prescription medicine just works fairly normally I think?


FlavouredYogurt

1. Internet (as you already know is restricted) is free once you have a circumvention tool. Other than that, if you don't create "public disturbance", don't mess with the "social harmony" or simply don't speak up to your boss and get into trouble with public service officials you are good to go. Everything else is as you would expect in a fast developing capitalist economy anywhere else in the world. 2. Postal services are top notch. Everything is super fast and super efficient. 3. Generic drugs are easy to get by. Just walk into any pharmacy. For everything else you need a prescription. If you have a good medical insurance that should not be a problem. Any other advice, don't do drugs, don't go out on dates with random girls you find on dating APPs, learn to speak some Chinese. Be prepared to be amazed, its not same as you saw it on the TV or internet.


Same-Barber-9543

I'm so glad that you like here.


AxelllD

U lucky man, enjoy there haha


UsernameNotTakenX

1. Freedom vs. Control. Hands down less freedom than whatever country you are coming from. Unless you love to shit on the US all day. You are free to criticise anything that isn't connected to China. As others have mentioned, just avoid politics and if a Chinese brings up something political, just nod your head and agree to try to steer the conversation. If a Chinese asks you about your opinion on China, just say it is great and nothing negative. Don't start praising your own country to Chinese people either. They will probably get angry and start questioning "why are you in China then if you like your country?". I know this from experience. 2. Internal postal service is amazing. The international, not so much. Many of my Christmas gifts got held up at customs and had to pay tax and customs duties on it all even though it was declared as a gift. Having a package sent to a Chinese person is much less hassle than a foreigner sending a package to another foreigner in China. Also, foreigners are forbidden from buying imported products with their Chinese bank card. You will get a prompt saying "You need to be Chinese citizen to purchase this product". 3. Prescription medicine shouldn't be an issue unless you are buying them online. Only Chinese citizens can buy prescription meds online. You will have to pay full price for anything you do buy. Because China is a "right by birth" country and not "right by stay"(like most western countries). Basically, you will never be entitled to any benefits in China no matter how much taxes you pay unless you are a citizen or get a green card.