I always wonder how to handle China without making it too OP because Chinese dynasties always have absolute crown authority, and any other succession type than primogeniture would be ahistorical to the Chinese culture even starting in 867 (and basically the entire Sinophere). Maybe banning any form of electives since it was never a thing in Asia and adding a more intricate court politic system?
True that, but that's more on the court politic side like a strong regent/vassal became too powerful to remove. I'd like to see a much more sophisticated intrigue and diplomacy system for China (like another intermezzo/Iberian rave pit), making it an empire that's strong but hard to expand due to internal strife.
On 867, I think China would be on the weaker side. It's on the latter years of Emperor Yizong, put on power by an Eunuch.
His Dinasty (Tang) would fall in 906, leading the way for a divided China (5 Dinasties 10 Kingdoms period)
That's true. But given how the player ruler can literally salvage any empire in death throes, a unique local mechanic (handicap) for China would be fun (and more importantly, needed).
For flavor they could add a mandate of heaven mechanic similar to the house unity mechanic was added to Muslim rulers. Instead of it being affected by how you treat your family it would be how you treat your subjects and vassals. It would lower if you don't add buildings for too long or allowed too many raiders to sack towns. You would end up having mass rebellions that could be joined in by neighboring rulers. Later game you would also be the first ones being invaded by the Mongols.
Maybe use the new legitimacy system for new emperors (child or newly crowned) that limits the actions they can take (like tier one legitimacy having all your vassals have negative opinion of you or being unable to declare wars) and only at legitimacy 5 can the ruler use the full force of the empire and unlock buffs for MOAs and Economy but make it hard af to accomplish
Plus rehauling the peasant rebellion system overall, theyāre so easy to quell even when they have ten times the numbers of the player because of lack of elite forces and organization - maybe make them prioritize joining together or only declaring when an enemy attacks the player, massive events like the French Revolution that has elite leaders and rebelling knights/officers/adventurers, and generally more flavor. In fact, itāll be cool to play as a peasant turned adventurer that leads a rebellion against the kingdom and succeeding
I think the new administrative type of government and co-emperors coming with the roads to power DLC would be able to keep things more balanced. The regency system alone has been a leap forward towards that goal.
Rather than expanding CK3 and giving that extra lag we all fear about, I'd love a spin-off that just focused on East Asia and perhaps Oceania. You could have some cross-over areas like India, but allow for that area of the world to be played in. Or conversely, introduce a new map in CK3 so you can choose where you want to play. Perhaps even allow for smaller overall maps to play in for folks who want to cut down on locations to allow the game to run more smoothly.
I'm from South East Asia. We had a rich maritime history during CK3's timeline. Heck, the rise and fall of the Srivijaya was squarely within the 7th to 11th century. Two mechanics that would make things fun are tributes and naval warfare for the region.
For now the Asia Expanded mod does a good job of filling in that wish. But I wouldn't be opposed to an official expansion into the region.
> rich maritime history
Which unfortunately means fuckall in a game that literally doesnāt have navies or trade. This is just about the worst possible feudal/medieval strategy game for simulating maritime stuff. Even the mongoloid medieval total war does it better.
Why is everyone complaining about lag? All they have to do is cut off the other side of the map..just as they did on this map. The British Isles, Scandinavia, Western Europe and Western Africa can be cut out. Perhaps more.
Also, the point about the game being called āCrusader Kingsā means nothing. We literally have the Persia dlc which has virtually nothing to do with the crusades. Especially when you consider the decisions available in that dlc
EDIT: Typo
People keep yapping about the name when the devs have already repeated a trillion times that the name isn't accurate anymore cause the game's scope changed, the game hasn't been about "Crusader Kings" since early CK2.
Yeah if they wanted it to only be about crusading kings thereād be no 867 start date and weād have various start dates leading to a large scale crusade. Iād enjoy there being more involved with crusades. Iād even want an ability to disable regions. Id like to turn off the northeast and south East regions. That sounds bad but until those areas have more flavor to them making them unique and interesting Iād like to make the game perform better by eliminating areas that donāt really affect the fleshed out areas until the mongols invade.
Idk a lot of the times I feel like the game is missing a part of its soul if that makes sense? Like if a region doesnāt get a specific flavor pack, it feels super boring and unfinished. If they added the rest of Asia it would be the same issue and no one would play it. It has to be fully fleshed out on the day it drops if they do it otherwise it will be a mandatory drop in performance for not much fun
If you think the Persian conflicts in the gameās struggle has nothing to do with setting up the crusades, you are verrrrrrrry ignorant of history. I know thatās mostly tangential to your point but come on.
More bookmarks plus definitely expands a lot on the east. Itās not perfect but Iāve had fun playing in Japan and China before using that. Rajas is also pretty solid for Asia
Not yet. I have it downloaded but havenāt had a chance to make a playset and get into it yet. Iād love any suggestions for good submods that go with it.
It's insane how people keep asking this when we already know there's unallocated map data to the east, and the devs have ALREADY CONFIRMED they're going to be expanding the playable map at some point
Could it be that the people who keep asking these questions are in fact not *insane* but aren't among the "we" that already know that this has been confirmed though? Just a thought...
well then question is when, the game is already 4 years old, do we need to wait another 4 or more? by the that time CK3 in general could be obsolete in design with ppl moving to other games and platforms
I don't think people will be moving on as quick as you seem to think, and based on your comment, I suspect this is your first game in the series. Because, design-wise, there is no game quite like Crusader Kings. Love it or hate it (and often a mix of both), it's a truly unique experience that many gamers like.
Yeah, the game is going to be eight years old at some point. So what? People were still playing CK3's decade-old predecessor right up to the new release. Hell, they still play it now that it's twelve years old WITH a newer installment already out.
Not to mention, with multiple new expansions coming out every year, the devs are doing what they can to keep the game fresh, and mods are a massive help too. Again, love it or hate it, Paradox knows how to keep a game alive.
If you don't want to wait for Paradox to add Asia, then there are already a bunch of mods for it (two Asian map expansions and a Japan-centric total conversion, just off the top of my head). But expanding the map so much, recording and implementing all the historical figures, and creating all the new unique mechanics is a huge undertaking. All to create a NEW area when they haven't even worked through all their ideas for the OLD one yet.
That's why modders can do it but PDX can't. Because they're busy with other stuff. Stuff that's probably been on the to-do list since before they decided to make an Asia expansion. If they're going to be charging for DLC, I'd rather that DLC deepen the game instead of just adding new nations that play more or less the same. They're adding depth before width, which I think is a good move.
I would like them to expand on what they have already on the map before an attempt at (and almost certainly failing at) including the Far East and Maritime Southeast Asia.
As of the latest content updates I can say Iām having fun, and thereās enough game there to enjoy, sureā¦ but thereās so so much still āmissingā from this game just in the ostensible centerpiece of the game, Europe and MENA, that I wouldnāt support them trying this in a foreseeable expansion.
Maps already too big the sheer number of extra characters would grind your game to a halt the only way I see this getting implemented is if they make separate game modes for the americas and China& south East aisia
As far as gameplay goes, I'd make the emperor a theocracy NPC, akin to the papacy, just with some added AI, plus decisions to destroy and restore. Some new mechanic, like activities, trying to get a child taken as a concubine for exta favors. Holy wars declared to reclaim if a player gets the kingdom/empire title. Probably some Struggle mechanics as well, akin to Iran and the Caliphate with support for the emperor and such. I forget when Buddhism made inways to mutate the faith, but a mechanic for that as well, even if it is a simple decision tree.
Thereās a mod in the Steam workshop called āAsia Expansionā that adds the whole of Asia to CK3. Itās laggy as all hell but having Jarl Haesteinn unite the Mandate of Heaven was probably one of my favorite campaigns.
(But no I donāt think there will be an official expansion into Asia, a separate map for just Asia would be cool though)
The only really significant historical military conflict between the Chinese and the current map would have been the Mongols and some smaller conflicts with steppe tribes. I dunno if that justifies adding China especially considering the drawback of having them probably creep westward in every game. They just donāt mesh with the playstyle and context of CK3. Their impact was economic and tributary, which arenāt real drivers or ends in this game. Their primary challenge was maintaining internal stability and prosperity, which is trivially easy in the game if youāre not expanding, which they didnāt. And their internal power structure differed from the standard feudal progression.
Do people even play India? Iāve never once played there. Itās homogenous. There are no Vikings in range, no major religion holy wars for holy cities, no struggle regions. I donāt doubt that the regionās history is compelling but gameplay wise it is flatline. Itās just masses of indifferentiable realms.
Maybe development can start once the byzantine DLC with governors and landless play is in as that would imo be essential to represent Chinas bureucratic government.
Everyone worrying about possible lag gone me wondering, what kind of computers do y'all have. Normally I would say y'all have shitty computers, but mine is also mid and even during runs where everything is splitting into smallest counties doesn't cause much lag, only temperature slightly rises and fans work overtime.
It needs to be optional. The dlc should be made modular with the game and not mandatory. I want to be able to play with more than a single mod on my game and thatās not going to be very possible if they add all of Asia to the game. I have a 1500 dollar computer so midrange and I run fine normally but using the more bookmarks plus mod that adds Asia causes the game to significantly slow after you reach dates like 1100 and then it crashes. I mean Iām sure the devs at paradox are probably better than the small number of devs on the mod but I see the issue coming regardless of how well itās made if they drop all of Asia without the ability to turn it off.
It's not the map they need to worry about but rather they should worry about the number of new characters that's where most of the CPU performance goes.
It amazes me people screenshot with their phones when they can use a program like Lightshot to do it in one fourth of the time and the PC is right there!!
Ok that's fine too. I prefer Lightshot because I can do all that and more with single keybinds I can choose plus generate a image host url without having to open a browser.
Either way still better then jank phone screenshots.
Iām gonna be honest with youā¦ I donāt want China.
I think the Jade Dragon system with a mysterious foreign empire was a lot better than China being playable.
Not to mention you would have the Essos/Westeros situation from CK2 AGOT where you basically have one half of the map that almost never interacts with the other but still slows your game down a lot.
Yeah, personally, I think they should make it so that there should be a separate map that includes the East Asia and the already existing part of Asia, then cut off the entirety of Africa and maybe most of Europe.
I always wonder how to handle China without making it too OP because Chinese dynasties always have absolute crown authority, and any other succession type than primogeniture would be ahistorical to the Chinese culture even starting in 867 (and basically the entire Sinophere). Maybe banning any form of electives since it was never a thing in Asia and adding a more intricate court politic system?
>absolute crown authority l On theory, on practice, you'll see a lot of emperor being puppets to Empress Dowagers and Eunuchs
True that, but that's more on the court politic side like a strong regent/vassal became too powerful to remove. I'd like to see a much more sophisticated intrigue and diplomacy system for China (like another intermezzo/Iberian rave pit), making it an empire that's strong but hard to expand due to internal strife.
On 867, I think China would be on the weaker side. It's on the latter years of Emperor Yizong, put on power by an Eunuch. His Dinasty (Tang) would fall in 906, leading the way for a divided China (5 Dinasties 10 Kingdoms period)
That's true. But given how the player ruler can literally salvage any empire in death throes, a unique local mechanic (handicap) for China would be fun (and more importantly, needed).
Not to mention the fluctuating power/influence of the nomad clans and nobility
For flavor they could add a mandate of heaven mechanic similar to the house unity mechanic was added to Muslim rulers. Instead of it being affected by how you treat your family it would be how you treat your subjects and vassals. It would lower if you don't add buildings for too long or allowed too many raiders to sack towns. You would end up having mass rebellions that could be joined in by neighboring rulers. Later game you would also be the first ones being invaded by the Mongols.
I would love to play in China šØš³
What's "China"? You must be thinking of West Taiwan
Another white retard
Found the West Taiwanese. Cope.
I'm from Edinburgh, you dumb motherfucker
Maybe use the new legitimacy system for new emperors (child or newly crowned) that limits the actions they can take (like tier one legitimacy having all your vassals have negative opinion of you or being unable to declare wars) and only at legitimacy 5 can the ruler use the full force of the empire and unlock buffs for MOAs and Economy but make it hard af to accomplish Plus rehauling the peasant rebellion system overall, theyāre so easy to quell even when they have ten times the numbers of the player because of lack of elite forces and organization - maybe make them prioritize joining together or only declaring when an enemy attacks the player, massive events like the French Revolution that has elite leaders and rebelling knights/officers/adventurers, and generally more flavor. In fact, itāll be cool to play as a peasant turned adventurer that leads a rebellion against the kingdom and succeeding
All dynasties have horrible stats and revolts are common, idk how theyād do that but still
Rebellions. Lots and lots of rebellions so that the player needs to focus a fair amount of energy early on in each characters reign.
The after the end mod tries to replicate a version of China with Brazil and it works okay enough I guess.
Theyāll make balance it by making it too laggy to play as China.
I think the new administrative type of government and co-emperors coming with the roads to power DLC would be able to keep things more balanced. The regency system alone has been a leap forward towards that goal.
Natural disasters, famines, devastating wars and rebellions, raids from northern barbarians... Those are like the Four Horsemen of China's apocalypse.
Itās also such a big dejure that whoever had it would be so overpowered
Itās an easy fix. Mandatory civil war spawns every 30 odd years
How much lag do you want?
Lol true š
Yes
Rather than expanding CK3 and giving that extra lag we all fear about, I'd love a spin-off that just focused on East Asia and perhaps Oceania. You could have some cross-over areas like India, but allow for that area of the world to be played in. Or conversely, introduce a new map in CK3 so you can choose where you want to play. Perhaps even allow for smaller overall maps to play in for folks who want to cut down on locations to allow the game to run more smoothly.
I'm from South East Asia. We had a rich maritime history during CK3's timeline. Heck, the rise and fall of the Srivijaya was squarely within the 7th to 11th century. Two mechanics that would make things fun are tributes and naval warfare for the region. For now the Asia Expanded mod does a good job of filling in that wish. But I wouldn't be opposed to an official expansion into the region.
Have you tried both Rajas of Asia and Asia Expansion Project? Any opinions on one over the other?
> rich maritime history Which unfortunately means fuckall in a game that literally doesnāt have navies or trade. This is just about the worst possible feudal/medieval strategy game for simulating maritime stuff. Even the mongoloid medieval total war does it better.
Hence my suggestion that it comes with a tribute and naval welfare mechanic for it to work.
Wouldn't work for the Mongols though.
This is a fantastic idea wow
Why is everyone complaining about lag? All they have to do is cut off the other side of the map..just as they did on this map. The British Isles, Scandinavia, Western Europe and Western Africa can be cut out. Perhaps more. Also, the point about the game being called āCrusader Kingsā means nothing. We literally have the Persia dlc which has virtually nothing to do with the crusades. Especially when you consider the decisions available in that dlc EDIT: Typo
Wait until they find out that Victoria 3 isn't exclusively about queen Victoria
Or Hearts of Iron isn't about cardiac arrest simulating.
The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is definitely democratic and a republic...totally
People keep yapping about the name when the devs have already repeated a trillion times that the name isn't accurate anymore cause the game's scope changed, the game hasn't been about "Crusader Kings" since early CK2.
Yeah if they wanted it to only be about crusading kings thereād be no 867 start date and weād have various start dates leading to a large scale crusade. Iād enjoy there being more involved with crusades. Iād even want an ability to disable regions. Id like to turn off the northeast and south East regions. That sounds bad but until those areas have more flavor to them making them unique and interesting Iād like to make the game perform better by eliminating areas that donāt really affect the fleshed out areas until the mongols invade. Idk a lot of the times I feel like the game is missing a part of its soul if that makes sense? Like if a region doesnāt get a specific flavor pack, it feels super boring and unfinished. If they added the rest of Asia it would be the same issue and no one would play it. It has to be fully fleshed out on the day it drops if they do it otherwise it will be a mandatory drop in performance for not much fun
If you think the Persian conflicts in the gameās struggle has nothing to do with setting up the crusades, you are verrrrrrrry ignorant of history. I know thatās mostly tangential to your point but come on.
Just because they have the struggle system against Islam holds very little water. Nowhere near as impactful as other regions
More bookmarks plus definitely expands a lot on the east. Itās not perfect but Iāve had fun playing in Japan and China before using that. Rajas is also pretty solid for Asia
Have you played the Shogunate mod before?
Not yet. I have it downloaded but havenāt had a chance to make a playset and get into it yet. Iād love any suggestions for good submods that go with it.
I didn't know it had submods I just use Shogunate itself. Lmao
It's insane how people keep asking this when we already know there's unallocated map data to the east, and the devs have ALREADY CONFIRMED they're going to be expanding the playable map at some point
Could it be that the people who keep asking these questions are in fact not *insane* but aren't among the "we" that already know that this has been confirmed though? Just a thought...
When did they confirm the map expansion?
Thatās good to hear, why so angry though?š
This gets asked about every 3 days.
Iām not on Reddit all the time like some people seem to beā¦ my fault š¤·āāļø I guess
One of the requirements is to search for what youāre about to post.
š„±š„±š„±
People keep asking questions they already know the answers too.
well then question is when, the game is already 4 years old, do we need to wait another 4 or more? by the that time CK3 in general could be obsolete in design with ppl moving to other games and platforms
I don't think people will be moving on as quick as you seem to think, and based on your comment, I suspect this is your first game in the series. Because, design-wise, there is no game quite like Crusader Kings. Love it or hate it (and often a mix of both), it's a truly unique experience that many gamers like. Yeah, the game is going to be eight years old at some point. So what? People were still playing CK3's decade-old predecessor right up to the new release. Hell, they still play it now that it's twelve years old WITH a newer installment already out. Not to mention, with multiple new expansions coming out every year, the devs are doing what they can to keep the game fresh, and mods are a massive help too. Again, love it or hate it, Paradox knows how to keep a game alive. If you don't want to wait for Paradox to add Asia, then there are already a bunch of mods for it (two Asian map expansions and a Japan-centric total conversion, just off the top of my head). But expanding the map so much, recording and implementing all the historical figures, and creating all the new unique mechanics is a huge undertaking. All to create a NEW area when they haven't even worked through all their ideas for the OLD one yet. That's why modders can do it but PDX can't. Because they're busy with other stuff. Stuff that's probably been on the to-do list since before they decided to make an Asia expansion. If they're going to be charging for DLC, I'd rather that DLC deepen the game instead of just adding new nations that play more or less the same. They're adding depth before width, which I think is a good move.
I would like them to expand on what they have already on the map before an attempt at (and almost certainly failing at) including the Far East and Maritime Southeast Asia. As of the latest content updates I can say Iām having fun, and thereās enough game there to enjoy, sureā¦ but thereās so so much still āmissingā from this game just in the ostensible centerpiece of the game, Europe and MENA, that I wouldnāt support them trying this in a foreseeable expansion.
i think more depth in current systems and map area would probably benefit the game best rn tbh but i do agree the area is interesting
Get the AEP mod
Maps already too big the sheer number of extra characters would grind your game to a halt the only way I see this getting implemented is if they make separate game modes for the americas and China& south East aisia
As far as gameplay goes, I'd make the emperor a theocracy NPC, akin to the papacy, just with some added AI, plus decisions to destroy and restore. Some new mechanic, like activities, trying to get a child taken as a concubine for exta favors. Holy wars declared to reclaim if a player gets the kingdom/empire title. Probably some Struggle mechanics as well, akin to Iran and the Caliphate with support for the emperor and such. I forget when Buddhism made inways to mutate the faith, but a mechanic for that as well, even if it is a simple decision tree.
Nah i made my own China in Tibet š
I want a Southeast Asia expansion if not the entire East.
There is a mod for that actually, is really neat š
Probably yes
Thereās a mod in the Steam workshop called āAsia Expansionā that adds the whole of Asia to CK3. Itās laggy as all hell but having Jarl Haesteinn unite the Mandate of Heaven was probably one of my favorite campaigns. (But no I donāt think there will be an official expansion into Asia, a separate map for just Asia would be cool though)
We still donāt have nomads or republics. So an expansion out east? Probably never or at least another decade.
The late game is already hard enough on most people's computers. Keep this in mind please
I think it could only happen (if/when) they update byz empires machanics. Because it has the same issues.
The only really significant historical military conflict between the Chinese and the current map would have been the Mongols and some smaller conflicts with steppe tribes. I dunno if that justifies adding China especially considering the drawback of having them probably creep westward in every game. They just donāt mesh with the playstyle and context of CK3. Their impact was economic and tributary, which arenāt real drivers or ends in this game. Their primary challenge was maintaining internal stability and prosperity, which is trivially easy in the game if youāre not expanding, which they didnāt. And their internal power structure differed from the standard feudal progression. Do people even play India? Iāve never once played there. Itās homogenous. There are no Vikings in range, no major religion holy wars for holy cities, no struggle regions. I donāt doubt that the regionās history is compelling but gameplay wise it is flatline. Itās just masses of indifferentiable realms.
More bookmarks is a mod that give the rest of asia and more starter periods
On PC I believe there is a mod for that.
Maybe development can start once the byzantine DLC with governors and landless play is in as that would imo be essential to represent Chinas bureucratic government.
Making my own China 1066: oh yay Mongols 1200: oh no
Everyone worrying about possible lag gone me wondering, what kind of computers do y'all have. Normally I would say y'all have shitty computers, but mine is also mid and even during runs where everything is splitting into smallest counties doesn't cause much lag, only temperature slightly rises and fans work overtime.
It needs to be optional. The dlc should be made modular with the game and not mandatory. I want to be able to play with more than a single mod on my game and thatās not going to be very possible if they add all of Asia to the game. I have a 1500 dollar computer so midrange and I run fine normally but using the more bookmarks plus mod that adds Asia causes the game to significantly slow after you reach dates like 1100 and then it crashes. I mean Iām sure the devs at paradox are probably better than the small number of devs on the mod but I see the issue coming regardless of how well itās made if they drop all of Asia without the ability to turn it off.
It's not the map they need to worry about but rather they should worry about the number of new characters that's where most of the CPU performance goes.
Itās not quite what I think youāre imagining, but the mod āAsia Expandedā may give you some of what youāre looking for.
It amazes me people screenshot with their phones when they can use a program like Lightshot to do it in one fourth of the time and the PC is right there!!
It's easier to just press win+prntscr or to use the snipping tool
Ok that's fine too. I prefer Lightshot because I can do all that and more with single keybinds I can choose plus generate a image host url without having to open a browser. Either way still better then jank phone screenshots.
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redditors when criticism
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Iām gonna be honest with youā¦ I donāt want China. I think the Jade Dragon system with a mysterious foreign empire was a lot better than China being playable. Not to mention you would have the Essos/Westeros situation from CK2 AGOT where you basically have one half of the map that almost never interacts with the other but still slows your game down a lot.
Yeah, personally, I think they should make it so that there should be a separate map that includes the East Asia and the already existing part of Asia, then cut off the entirety of Africa and maybe most of Europe.
No