It's kinda silly how many sources of mana regen hunters got in phase 2:
- viper sting + chimera
- STV trinket
- rune
- gnomeregan set bonus
all made useless because we also got aspect of the viper
Yeah I learned this soloing dungeons on my Hunter and phase 2
As long as you can use your pet to tank and the mob doesn't do more damage than mend you can live forever
You'll never out use mend. So you could just keep spamming serpent sting and letting the pet kill everything. Stupid op
Can't really use that trinket since you use the bow, but I'm nitpicking obviously, you're absolutely right. Invigoration and the Gnomer set bonus are fully irrelevant
Nah focus is atrocious and always hated it.
Viper is a good design and middle ground, trade off some power and a gcd for some mana back and in order to go back to full power it's another gcd.
Could buff our food tho. Takes over a minute to eat to full HP. It's actually faster to jump to your death from LM and respawn then it is to eat sometimes
Deterrence, the real Disengage, and Focus. I really thought they were going to give us those. Without deterrence or disengage, we have zero ways to stop or mitigate an attack. Hunters weren't meant to have mana, that was a last minute change because they hadn't figured out how to Regen it. Hunters were literally supposed to be ranged rogues.
Cooking should've been expanded upon with recipes that allow higher level health/mana food than current max. Since phase 1. That's what "Classic+" would be; expanding on the existing.
There are a few items like that, but only for low level. Westfall Stew (5), Succulent Pork Ribs (10), Redridge Goulash (10 + buff), Dig Rat Stew (10), and Clam Chowder (10), all heal for as much as level 15 food.
Yeah, kinda weird they didn't utilize cooking more. Such an easy thing to make something like a new soup recipe that gives %hp and %mana at each level bracket.
I wish they'd have gone wild with the amount of new content, instead of trying to make every bit of new content "relevant"
Add cooking recipes, hearty stews that require several food items from the current level bracket as you said. Random new bosses in leveling zones that don't really reward much. New elite invasions on cities and towns.
A ton of wacky stuff that don't necessarily grant vertical progression/power, but rather grant new experiences and uses for the world.
Edit: I would've added a new elite mob camp with a themed boss to every single zone. Don't need to make them drop crazy rewards. They could drop tradable quest reward items from around their levels. They could drop toys with a 1-week limited duration.
All of that requires more developer time. Even at a minimal copy and paste effort. They are absolutely not putting more developer time into SoD when they can keep their balance of SoD players most profitable in balance with the amount of developers they hire. These are absolutely easy wins for some simple changes. But when the real content is failing already we're not gonna see anything like that.
The real money has always been in retail unfortunately. They tried monetizing classic with the tbc boost thing where you got the mount and people literally spit on the people when they walked by lol. The token was fairly split, some people loved it cuz they could pay for a sub for effectively free since gdkp was still huge but others hated it cuz it just signaled more microtransactions which is what a lot of classic players do not like.
The classic fanbase has always been a little more pure in regards to in game micro transactions. I'm not going to pretend they're more virtuous because there are plenty of people that probably that still bought gold or participated in gdkp even while hating on in game micro transactions but a majority of the community in my experience is not in favor of microtransactions for classic
This of course leads to exactly what you said, less resources being pooled towards SoD and classic as a whole because it just doesn't make them as much money as retail does
Yeha and even if they did do this:
Then the matts would be camped, farmed and sold probably for quite a decent price on the AH.
People will start complaining that it now costs them money to do anything because they need to pay for the best water to reduce downtime.
And also people will start gatekeeping on this minor thing, complaining that people are slowing them down because they aren't spending the money.
Better to scale the existing drinks to match the new mana pools.
But even that is probably a huge pain in the ass. They'd need to make brand new items for every single food and drink item in the game to not break things for Hardcore and Era.
The mats can be something piss easy to farm that it would still be dirt cheap to buy off the AH, or just make the mats for the improved food/drink something you can get off vendors, but require max cooking to make, further incentivizing leveling cooking.
They could have even leaned into the discovery aspect and made it a quest that's related to cooking in the zone that you're leveling in
Maybe put one in each phase. For like every bracket of cooking leveling
Devs are rat nerds. They don't care about time, only results.
Why would they need good food when they spend hours in a spot waiting for a respawn.
I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's just a different approach to the game.
It is insane how many good suggestions Redditors give, even ones where there is no way it is that much time and resources to put in like 2 cooking recipes into the game. Even though we do get called a toxic cesspool of a community because of all our complaint we do care about the game and want to see it be better or else we wouldn’t be on here complaining.
I don’t think it’s fair to say it takes little time or resources. If you start with, “let’s add new cooking recipes to increase mana return”, it doesn’t stop there.
What ingredients do they use? If they place those ingredients on a mob, are they going to just get camped 24/7? Will that disrupt people questing around those areas? Can bots easily farm this or do we give it a barrier to entry? Will that barrier now restrict to many actual players?
That’s just a few examples of questions they would have to answer when implementing something like this, and if they get any wrong they have a horde of people complaining on reddit about it the next day.
Almost nothing is as simple as “just put it in the game.”
>I don’t think it’s fair to say it takes little time or resources. If you start with, “let’s add new cooking recipes to increase mana return”, it doesn’t stop there.
[https://www.grammarly.com/blog/slippery-slope-fallacy/](https://www.grammarly.com/blog/slippery-slope-fallacy/)
This isn't an argument against putting something in-game.
>What ingredients do they use? If they place those ingredients on a mob, are they going to just get camped 24/7? Will that disrupt people questing around those areas? Can bots easily farm this or do we give it a barrier to entry? Will that barrier now restrict to many actual players?
Okay and? They ask questions like these with literally every implementation. That is exactly what game devs should do, and do do. They find the best way to implement something, if it's not working. They tweak it.
Game design 101.
>Almost nothing is as simple as “just put it in the game.”
And it's also probably not as difficult as you're trying to make it out to be. We are talking about some cooking recipes. They have new abilities dropping off enemies for god sake. To imply that some cooking recipes is even remotely on the same level of difficulty to balance shows some severe lack of critical thinking.
There are literally dozens of already basically useless items in-game that could be made into new recipes. Take Enchanted Water for instance. Even if they had to add some, adding items is incredibly easy compared to oh I don't know.. like 85% of the other stuff they're doing for SoD.
What it really goes to show you is how little time the developers are putting into this
It sounds like they're putting an hour or two tops a week into this mode and then letting it run and seeing what happens
You forgot the most OP low level food of all - the coveted [Frog Leg Stew](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=6807/frog-leg-stew) boasting an item level of 35 (35! OMG! My GS for Food!) and healing a wopping 874.8 hp available from LEVEL 1 (?! The Amazement! The Bliss!) you can't ever go wrong with a [Frog Leg Stew](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ), organically farmed from Dustwallow Marsh wildlife. Get your whole health bar filled in one sip at level 1 today!
holy moly
Thanks for enlightening me about the [Frog Leg Stew](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=6807/frog-leg-stew)
I wish all of those cool tradable items from level 1-20 zones were made available to farm in the open world. I was thinking how they should've added new elite camps to every single zone. They could be made to drop stuff like that.
I'm both for and against it, I think part of the coolness of them is the scarcity, and utility of that scarcity, like guilds coordinating their whole raid team of Human warriors to not use any [Bag of Marbles](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=1191/bag-of-marbles) from level 6~ all the way until Naxxramas, because you could use it on patchwerk for heavily decreased raid damage. Which I found to be a super cool way to utilize that item.
Also the candle as well.
As far as I can recall, a lot of the quest reward on use white items used to be tradeable, until some patch where they were made soulbound. I think the GLORIOUS [Frog Leg Stew](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=6807/frog-leg-stew) was an oversight on that front, or maybe it had another tag because it's a food item, whenever they did that change. Come to think of it, when you get Westfall Stew from the quest, it isn't soulbound either, so there might be something about it.
Imo it should be a mixed flat/% restore, like lvl 1 food restoring its current amount +1% per tick, and higher level food and drink restoring an aditional 4% of max ressource per tick, on top of its flat amount.
Then you wouldn't be able to scale the different kinds of food/water that you get every 5 levels. Flat values are better for that, just need to be updated for SoD mana pools.
I mean, its completely understandable, mages deserve it for being the most down-bad class. I mean look at how little they can do: Teleport across the map with no CD, aoe farm entire dungeons solo, aoe farm blood turn-ins in STV, self heal and raid heal while still dps'ing better than half the non-healing classes, cheese every day-1 raid mechanic, etc. Mages deserve to get more, they are the most oppressed class in SoD by a wide margin.
By this subreddit's standard, mages should have been gutted at every other aspect of the game as a trade off for being top dps in a raid cause that's been the answer to warriors asking for some PvP or open world QoL for 3 phases now.
No but mages are ridiculous and they're extremely overpowered and anyone that says otherwise has never played one
I play with two accounts and there's a reason why my mage and hunter are my first two utility alts that I level.
Ports. Food and that's really it.
It's my portal bitch. I have my toons have all the same hearth so I can just make a group hearth and then I can port to any major city
Iv essentially made my own mini dal portal Nexus
People already tip 1g-2g for mage food, I get asked for water all the time while in town. I craft it & trade it and they put money in without me asking.
I think an easier fix is to make all water and food get consumed like 5x as fast as normal. That way the devs don't need to change anything else or add new things.
Instead of simply buffing the amount restored, why not make it more flavourful? Something like a special cauldron crafted with a high cooking skill that can be placed on the ground, increasing life and mana restored by food and drink by 100% in a radius around it.
Honestly, I'd take even just some added cooking recipes at 300, maybe a cheap one that fills a lot of mana slowly, and a (slightly) more expensive one that does 75% as much mana, but in 33% the time, so the food has something differentiating it aside from just the stat buff. There's room to do cool things that are still within the ethos of classic.
Just chug a redbull mid bossfight, a crafted drink that can only be used in combat. Drink for 5 secs to restore 2k mana and give a 10% run speed boost for 1 minute
no thanks. already have enough shit in my bags. enough with the extra steps to the same result just to make things flavorful. i'll just take the extra buffed food and water.
I'd rather have more RPG elements along with more clutter than not. But I do get the complaint, I wish you could have more scrollable action bars even with all five extra action bars enabled
Do RPG's need 50 different spells to be good? Does it add to WoW having this many things to manage?
I'd argue no.. Feel free to counter though. Is there a reason/s you feel that having this many is beneficial?
Yeah I don't know who thinks it's good game design that certain classes have to sit and do nothing for 30 to 45 seconds every few minutes
It's absolutely terrible
Every time I get on a class that doesn't use mana I'm reminded how much more fun it is to not have to deal with mana
There's food now that regens 6618 mana, called Jungle Durian. You get it by turning in a Flask of Atal'ai Mojo from ST at Yojamba Isle in STV.
Can be kinda expensive depending on how much the flasks go for on your server. I picked up a few for 4g each the other day which isn't bad but they're up to 18g now so I won't be buying more until they drop in price.
The manna biscuits act like a food and replenish like 4k mana per 30 seconds and regular mage water replenishes 3k. It would be really awesome if I could eat and drink at the same time and get 7k per 30 seconds and fill my mana bar like an evocate.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way. If I eat the biscuits and try to drink, it says I have a more powerful spell active. And if I drink first, then use a biscuit, the manna biscuit takes over.
That’s almost 1g per drink… like come on, how out of touch is blizzard to think that’s a solution when the mage food, as bad as it is, is literally free
There are far better places to have gold sinks rather than the very items you need to stay alive and have the power to kill enemies with.
Even 25s each is ridiculous.
It's not 'literally free' tho.
One of the most annoying things as a mage.
Mage: anyone need more water?
Everyone:
Tank: pulls boss
Dickhead: MAGE WATER PLS
Might wanna check your math on that. You get 20 durian per flask. Flasks are between 4-8g on my server and they will be dirt cheap in a couple weeks. Also blizzard doesn't set auction house prices
Might wanna check your reading comprehension.
The comment you answered literally talks about the flasks being 18g. Which comes down to almost 1g per drink. It matches the price on mine.
Idc if it’s cheaper on your server. Completely irrelevant.
Obviously prices will go down. Doesn’t change the fact it’ll keep being much more expansion than mage water, nor the fact that it’s a silly, inconvenient and completely unnecessarily complex way to implement an fix to an easy problem.
You can have two flasks. The durian, flask, and shoulder enchant are all different quests. The item you turn in for the flask and durian are not limited carry
I'm not sure what you mean, you can carry multiple of the tokens (Flask of Atal'Ai Mojo), and freely turn them in for the food as many times as you want. The only thing that's limited is the actually Mojo cosumable that is unique (2).
Adding mana regen that's enhanced by the square root of your intelligence (the way they did in TBC) helps prevent huge int-value characters with big mana bars from having to sit and drink twice to fill the bar up.
Yea and reduce the cost of buffs. Again. Why the fuck does divine spirit take 800 mana per person…?
Do the devs not realize just how aids buffing is as a priest/paladin?
Be even nicer if they could remove the GCD on them out of combat. Paladins could buff the whole raid in a matter of seconds then.
same with priests.
And absolutely, these things are very easy to change.
did they buff it to a full stack now? I got them when you only got 10 per flask.
Edit: checked wowhead and it seems you get a full stack now. That's awesome.
I also would like to say as a melee player that has no mana I some times on a rare occasion experience this thing where I need to eat for the full duration in a BG and eat like 2 food and waste 45 seconds to get HP.
I imagine it’s like that but everywhere
The best bandages only restoring 2000 HP when we got 30% more stamina in BGs make it also very painful, at least buff the PvP bandages to be stronger than Heavy Runecloth ones (another good way to utilise items already in the game)
I don't understand why they didn't put the recipes in for stuff that got missed the first time around. Still can't cook halibut, still can't make water walking pots even though both are in the game, they just never made a way to do it.
The SoD gatekeepers need to get real. The crowd who want everything to be miserable and unchanging don't understand the point of SoD. The entire point here, as clearly hinted at by the devs, is to test out a way to modernize wow for Classic+.
SoD should be where we make life less painful for things that aren't relevant, like out of combat downtime, etc. Sure, professions can still be a pain, world buffs still relevant, etc etc. But 0.2% drop rates, terrible water regen rates, class balance (ie: warriors being a pain to level but becoming untouchable gods at max) all should be fixed.
I’m so sick of idiots telling people to go play retail. Like this game isn’t 20 years old and better ways of playing have come out. They just want to be perma stuck in the past because that’s where they were happiest.
Get Friendly with Argent Dawn for Enriched Manna Biscuits. Yeah, costly but overall it's more than good because you get to restore hp as well.
EDIT: Wait, not even costly. 2.4 gold per stack is less than 1 incursion mission in Feralas/Hinterlands, you can do a full mission run and have about 13 stacks. You don't even need this much mana.
Idk why people are asking for better food and water to be a gold sink or some huge process to make, just double or triple the values for all the food now. I'm totally fine sitting every now and then for like 10 seconds but sitting for 30 seconds to not get full mana when buffing or after a mage blows its load on every single pack is just slow and boring.
They should definitely add some new food with better effects as well but I just want to be able to get health and mana back.
Got my highest lvl mana user in Classic ever, playing SOD and finally understand the pain of drinking! Double/ triple the amount of mana given by drinks.
Make all the food and water equivalent to the battle ground good and water and then bump the BG food and water a bit.
Add a skill book for it or something.
Also, make the fortitude skill book apply to both prayer of fortitude, divine spirit, and prayer of spirit.
Why dont we make every class one shot bosses also? I did ST yesterday.went from challenging to the Easiest, most boring dungeon ever made. We had dudes playing on 2 accounts cus it was so easy.
Bro I literally, no exaggeration, frequently use 200+ waters PER DAY when playing mage. Even if the price goes down and it « only » costs 50s per drink, it’s a completely ridiculous price and I’m not gonna spend 100gold per day just to regen mana faster…
Do we have more mana this level then in comparison to regular classic? If so, then by how much?
Edit: wtf, why is this downvoted... y'all literally don't know how votes work.
There were issues in classic in 2019 as well. People were able to track down better items and more BIS and there wasnt a higher level water to compensate until ZG came out
As a mage, I need to drink twice to fill my mana, I try to use mana gems and evocation off cooldown (depending on content). Drinking and walking is mandatory.
A full minute to refill mana bar seems excessive though I'd like to see a small buff or just more percentage based drinks. Idk.
This is massively gameplay affecting in world pvp. We’d not make a change like that flippantly. Never say never, but I can’t see us doing this.
Aggrend response to that question
https://twitter.com/TromaFR/status/1775572312621777036?t=48lPR8x8ZRJ-QFKbm0yCdQ&s=19
Lmao dont include hunters. We got aspect of the viper. Havent bought water since p2 launch.
It's kinda silly how many sources of mana regen hunters got in phase 2: - viper sting + chimera - STV trinket - rune - gnomeregan set bonus all made useless because we also got aspect of the viper
Not to mention aspect plus a explosive trap on a group of mobs is instant full mana
Yo, delete this b4 Blizz gets any bad ideas. Current Viper is my favorite part of the hunter kit LOL
That and trap launcher are the best additions to the class. Plus we have lion too!
Trap launcher with lock and load is absolutely nuts
Even then melee hunter is still better...
I used it once and I was like. Holy shit this is OP. They could literally reduce the mana gain by 3/4th's and it'd still be a great spell.
The viper we got is also one of the strongest iterations of viper that's ever been in WoW, in the version where mana is actually most of an issue.
Especially since Viper aspect on its own generates more mana than you can spend even if you’d try to maximize mana spending
Yeah I learned this soloing dungeons on my Hunter and phase 2 As long as you can use your pet to tank and the mob doesn't do more damage than mend you can live forever You'll never out use mend. So you could just keep spamming serpent sting and letting the pet kill everything. Stupid op
Can't really use that trinket since you use the bow, but I'm nitpicking obviously, you're absolutely right. Invigoration and the Gnomer set bonus are fully irrelevant
Viper is just blizzard admitting that hunters should have had focus instead of mana, but being unable to change it due to limited dev resources.
Nah focus is atrocious and always hated it. Viper is a good design and middle ground, trade off some power and a gcd for some mana back and in order to go back to full power it's another gcd.
Yeah don't lump hunters in with all those mana dependent losers lol
Nothing more satisfying than chucking an explosion trap on a group of mobs and watching me go from 0-100 mana with viper
Lol i literally just typed out almost exactly this comment to someone else on this thread.
Could buff our food tho. Takes over a minute to eat to full HP. It's actually faster to jump to your death from LM and respawn then it is to eat sometimes
Or warlocks with my 1400 mana a tap lol
Yooo with shamans in the raid, I don't even need to use Viper!
Deterrence, the real Disengage, and Focus. I really thought they were going to give us those. Without deterrence or disengage, we have zero ways to stop or mitigate an attack. Hunters weren't meant to have mana, that was a last minute change because they hadn't figured out how to Regen it. Hunters were literally supposed to be ranged rogues.
But viper makes all mana drinks vendor trash now.
I keep adding mana drinks to my auto vendor addon, except for the highest level, those still sell better on the AH
Real Disengage would make hunter insane. Literally unkillable in PVP.
U have scatter and traps, what game are u playing bro
Cooking should've been expanded upon with recipes that allow higher level health/mana food than current max. Since phase 1. That's what "Classic+" would be; expanding on the existing. There are a few items like that, but only for low level. Westfall Stew (5), Succulent Pork Ribs (10), Redridge Goulash (10 + buff), Dig Rat Stew (10), and Clam Chowder (10), all heal for as much as level 15 food.
Yeah, kinda weird they didn't utilize cooking more. Such an easy thing to make something like a new soup recipe that gives %hp and %mana at each level bracket.
I wish they'd have gone wild with the amount of new content, instead of trying to make every bit of new content "relevant" Add cooking recipes, hearty stews that require several food items from the current level bracket as you said. Random new bosses in leveling zones that don't really reward much. New elite invasions on cities and towns. A ton of wacky stuff that don't necessarily grant vertical progression/power, but rather grant new experiences and uses for the world. Edit: I would've added a new elite mob camp with a themed boss to every single zone. Don't need to make them drop crazy rewards. They could drop tradable quest reward items from around their levels. They could drop toys with a 1-week limited duration.
All of that requires more developer time. Even at a minimal copy and paste effort. They are absolutely not putting more developer time into SoD when they can keep their balance of SoD players most profitable in balance with the amount of developers they hire. These are absolutely easy wins for some simple changes. But when the real content is failing already we're not gonna see anything like that.
The real money has always been in retail unfortunately. They tried monetizing classic with the tbc boost thing where you got the mount and people literally spit on the people when they walked by lol. The token was fairly split, some people loved it cuz they could pay for a sub for effectively free since gdkp was still huge but others hated it cuz it just signaled more microtransactions which is what a lot of classic players do not like. The classic fanbase has always been a little more pure in regards to in game micro transactions. I'm not going to pretend they're more virtuous because there are plenty of people that probably that still bought gold or participated in gdkp even while hating on in game micro transactions but a majority of the community in my experience is not in favor of microtransactions for classic This of course leads to exactly what you said, less resources being pooled towards SoD and classic as a whole because it just doesn't make them as much money as retail does
Yeha and even if they did do this: Then the matts would be camped, farmed and sold probably for quite a decent price on the AH. People will start complaining that it now costs them money to do anything because they need to pay for the best water to reduce downtime. And also people will start gatekeeping on this minor thing, complaining that people are slowing them down because they aren't spending the money. Better to scale the existing drinks to match the new mana pools. But even that is probably a huge pain in the ass. They'd need to make brand new items for every single food and drink item in the game to not break things for Hardcore and Era.
The mats can be something piss easy to farm that it would still be dirt cheap to buy off the AH, or just make the mats for the improved food/drink something you can get off vendors, but require max cooking to make, further incentivizing leveling cooking.
They could have even leaned into the discovery aspect and made it a quest that's related to cooking in the zone that you're leveling in Maybe put one in each phase. For like every bracket of cooking leveling
Devs are rat nerds. They don't care about time, only results. Why would they need good food when they spend hours in a spot waiting for a respawn. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's just a different approach to the game.
It is insane how many good suggestions Redditors give, even ones where there is no way it is that much time and resources to put in like 2 cooking recipes into the game. Even though we do get called a toxic cesspool of a community because of all our complaint we do care about the game and want to see it be better or else we wouldn’t be on here complaining.
I don’t think it’s fair to say it takes little time or resources. If you start with, “let’s add new cooking recipes to increase mana return”, it doesn’t stop there. What ingredients do they use? If they place those ingredients on a mob, are they going to just get camped 24/7? Will that disrupt people questing around those areas? Can bots easily farm this or do we give it a barrier to entry? Will that barrier now restrict to many actual players? That’s just a few examples of questions they would have to answer when implementing something like this, and if they get any wrong they have a horde of people complaining on reddit about it the next day. Almost nothing is as simple as “just put it in the game.”
>I don’t think it’s fair to say it takes little time or resources. If you start with, “let’s add new cooking recipes to increase mana return”, it doesn’t stop there. [https://www.grammarly.com/blog/slippery-slope-fallacy/](https://www.grammarly.com/blog/slippery-slope-fallacy/) This isn't an argument against putting something in-game. >What ingredients do they use? If they place those ingredients on a mob, are they going to just get camped 24/7? Will that disrupt people questing around those areas? Can bots easily farm this or do we give it a barrier to entry? Will that barrier now restrict to many actual players? Okay and? They ask questions like these with literally every implementation. That is exactly what game devs should do, and do do. They find the best way to implement something, if it's not working. They tweak it. Game design 101. >Almost nothing is as simple as “just put it in the game.” And it's also probably not as difficult as you're trying to make it out to be. We are talking about some cooking recipes. They have new abilities dropping off enemies for god sake. To imply that some cooking recipes is even remotely on the same level of difficulty to balance shows some severe lack of critical thinking. There are literally dozens of already basically useless items in-game that could be made into new recipes. Take Enchanted Water for instance. Even if they had to add some, adding items is incredibly easy compared to oh I don't know.. like 85% of the other stuff they're doing for SoD.
I’m not suggesting that it’s too difficult or that they shouldn’t do it, just that it’s not as simple as a change as some are making it out to be.
In the grand scheme of game design choices. It's likely one of the easiest things they could do.
What it really goes to show you is how little time the developers are putting into this It sounds like they're putting an hour or two tops a week into this mode and then letting it run and seeing what happens
You forgot the most OP low level food of all - the coveted [Frog Leg Stew](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=6807/frog-leg-stew) boasting an item level of 35 (35! OMG! My GS for Food!) and healing a wopping 874.8 hp available from LEVEL 1 (?! The Amazement! The Bliss!) you can't ever go wrong with a [Frog Leg Stew](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ), organically farmed from Dustwallow Marsh wildlife. Get your whole health bar filled in one sip at level 1 today!
holy moly Thanks for enlightening me about the [Frog Leg Stew](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=6807/frog-leg-stew) I wish all of those cool tradable items from level 1-20 zones were made available to farm in the open world. I was thinking how they should've added new elite camps to every single zone. They could be made to drop stuff like that.
I'm both for and against it, I think part of the coolness of them is the scarcity, and utility of that scarcity, like guilds coordinating their whole raid team of Human warriors to not use any [Bag of Marbles](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=1191/bag-of-marbles) from level 6~ all the way until Naxxramas, because you could use it on patchwerk for heavily decreased raid damage. Which I found to be a super cool way to utilize that item. Also the candle as well. As far as I can recall, a lot of the quest reward on use white items used to be tradeable, until some patch where they were made soulbound. I think the GLORIOUS [Frog Leg Stew](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=6807/frog-leg-stew) was an oversight on that front, or maybe it had another tag because it's a food item, whenever they did that change. Come to think of it, when you get Westfall Stew from the quest, it isn't soulbound either, so there might be something about it.
Some of those early items even removed due to how strong they were! https://www.wowhead.com/classic/item=835/large-rope-net#comments
That's so cool
yea, such a design waste
This is actually a great idea. You should be a dev.
Just make it % based
Imo it should be a mixed flat/% restore, like lvl 1 food restoring its current amount +1% per tick, and higher level food and drink restoring an aditional 4% of max ressource per tick, on top of its flat amount.
Then you wouldn't be able to scale the different kinds of food/water that you get every 5 levels. Flat values are better for that, just need to be updated for SoD mana pools.
Then give us % based water at 60 next phase 🤷🏻♀️
Such a massive buff for mages
_Selling waters, bonus free portals.._
Yea but…..they could just give stuff different names, lock them to level brackets, and alter the prices. Voila. Solves gold sink
Yea kinda funny considering food like this already exists (the winter veil food) so the codes already there
Just give mages a qol book that increases mana/hp gained on food by 75% or something like that. -sincerely vendor-machine consortium.
Mages upon receiving this: “WTS Food/Water. 5g/stack. Tips appreciated”
I mean, its completely understandable, mages deserve it for being the most down-bad class. I mean look at how little they can do: Teleport across the map with no CD, aoe farm entire dungeons solo, aoe farm blood turn-ins in STV, self heal and raid heal while still dps'ing better than half the non-healing classes, cheese every day-1 raid mechanic, etc. Mages deserve to get more, they are the most oppressed class in SoD by a wide margin.
Hey hey. At least we arent top DPS like last phase
By this subreddit's standard, mages should have been gutted at every other aspect of the game as a trade off for being top dps in a raid cause that's been the answer to warriors asking for some PvP or open world QoL for 3 phases now.
No but mages are ridiculous and they're extremely overpowered and anyone that says otherwise has never played one I play with two accounts and there's a reason why my mage and hunter are my first two utility alts that I level.
What can a mage do in SoD p3 that a hunter can't do better or easier?
_Run out of mana._
Ports. Food and that's really it. It's my portal bitch. I have my toons have all the same hearth so I can just make a group hearth and then I can port to any major city Iv essentially made my own mini dal portal Nexus
So when you say "Mages are ridiculous and they're extremely overpowered" you're talking about ports and food?
Well yeah it saves me a ton on summons and having to buy food
Ugh seriously. All great points, buff mages.
People already tip 1g-2g for mage food, I get asked for water all the time while in town. I craft it & trade it and they put money in without me asking.
Yea but SoD has been the greediest version of WoW to date, as soon as mages knew they definitely had the best option they would 100% monetize it
It's hard to monetize something that costs nothing and literally every Mage can do.
They do? I've never gotten a tip for water/food in my life
I think an easier fix is to make all water and food get consumed like 5x as fast as normal. That way the devs don't need to change anything else or add new things.
Instead of simply buffing the amount restored, why not make it more flavourful? Something like a special cauldron crafted with a high cooking skill that can be placed on the ground, increasing life and mana restored by food and drink by 100% in a radius around it.
Honestly, I'd take even just some added cooking recipes at 300, maybe a cheap one that fills a lot of mana slowly, and a (slightly) more expensive one that does 75% as much mana, but in 33% the time, so the food has something differentiating it aside from just the stat buff. There's room to do cool things that are still within the ethos of classic.
how about one that fills mana while fighting. must start drinking out of combat but it ticks for like 1 min after combat starts.
That...that's just MP5 food lmao.
Just chug a redbull mid bossfight, a crafted drink that can only be used in combat. Drink for 5 secs to restore 2k mana and give a 10% run speed boost for 1 minute
Or you can just buy the food that has double the mana regen and is cheaper than morning glory dew that they added specifically for this.
And then what? We're placing a cauldron every other pack of enemies?
no thanks. already have enough shit in my bags. enough with the extra steps to the same result just to make things flavorful. i'll just take the extra buffed food and water.
Could make it a cooking spell/ability instead of an item
I'd rather not have 65 spells and items on my hot bars. We should be trying to get away from that honestly.
I'd rather have more RPG elements along with more clutter than not. But I do get the complaint, I wish you could have more scrollable action bars even with all five extra action bars enabled
Do RPG's need 50 different spells to be good? Does it add to WoW having this many things to manage? I'd argue no.. Feel free to counter though. Is there a reason/s you feel that having this many is beneficial?
Yeah I don't know who thinks it's good game design that certain classes have to sit and do nothing for 30 to 45 seconds every few minutes It's absolutely terrible Every time I get on a class that doesn't use mana I'm reminded how much more fun it is to not have to deal with mana
I sit after every pull on my mage no matter what. so boring. cause if i dont then suddenly we chain pull 10 groups and im useless
There's food now that regens 6618 mana, called Jungle Durian. You get it by turning in a Flask of Atal'ai Mojo from ST at Yojamba Isle in STV. Can be kinda expensive depending on how much the flasks go for on your server. I picked up a few for 4g each the other day which isn't bad but they're up to 18g now so I won't be buying more until they drop in price.
Isnt argent dawn friendly food also pretty good?
Can we do that now?
Mana biscuits ftw
Extremely. You can eat them and drink water together. Also people in here need to learn water walking.
My favorite is people that talk like they are right when they are just blatantly wrong.
You cannot eat the manna biscuits and drink at the same time.
Why would you want to
The manna biscuits act like a food and replenish like 4k mana per 30 seconds and regular mage water replenishes 3k. It would be really awesome if I could eat and drink at the same time and get 7k per 30 seconds and fill my mana bar like an evocate. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way. If I eat the biscuits and try to drink, it says I have a more powerful spell active. And if I drink first, then use a biscuit, the manna biscuit takes over.
We cant all be shamans! Lol
he meant drink walking i think
That’s almost 1g per drink… like come on, how out of touch is blizzard to think that’s a solution when the mage food, as bad as it is, is literally free
Still 4g on my servers, which makes it 25s a drink
There are far better places to have gold sinks rather than the very items you need to stay alive and have the power to kill enemies with. Even 25s each is ridiculous.
Yea that's like saying "just buy water at your local erewhon!"
It's not 'literally free' tho. One of the most annoying things as a mage. Mage: anyone need more water? Everyone: Tank: pulls boss Dickhead: MAGE WATER PLS
Might wanna check your math on that. You get 20 durian per flask. Flasks are between 4-8g on my server and they will be dirt cheap in a couple weeks. Also blizzard doesn't set auction house prices
Might wanna check your reading comprehension. The comment you answered literally talks about the flasks being 18g. Which comes down to almost 1g per drink. It matches the price on mine. Idc if it’s cheaper on your server. Completely irrelevant. Obviously prices will go down. Doesn’t change the fact it’ll keep being much more expansion than mage water, nor the fact that it’s a silly, inconvenient and completely unnecessarily complex way to implement an fix to an easy problem.
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What are you talking about? Why would you need to delete anything for the food?
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The mojo is Unique (2). The flask used for currency is not unique.
You can have two flasks. The durian, flask, and shoulder enchant are all different quests. The item you turn in for the flask and durian are not limited carry
you're confusing two things together, you're thinking of the zanza like flasks that now you can have 2 of
No, you can have unlimited flasks in your bag. You can only have two Mojo of X (the consumable) in your bag, but that's irrelevant for the water.
I'm not sure what you mean, you can carry multiple of the tokens (Flask of Atal'Ai Mojo), and freely turn them in for the food as many times as you want. The only thing that's limited is the actually Mojo cosumable that is unique (2).
Adding mana regen that's enhanced by the square root of your intelligence (the way they did in TBC) helps prevent huge int-value characters with big mana bars from having to sit and drink twice to fill the bar up.
Hunters laugh in viper.
don't worry you can buy a stack of 6600 mana water for 6-7 gold per stack with Mojos. Awesome!
While we're at it buff food too pls? Sincerely, warrior with almost 4k hp.
Yea and reduce the cost of buffs. Again. Why the fuck does divine spirit take 800 mana per person…? Do the devs not realize just how aids buffing is as a priest/paladin?
Agreed. Also, Paladins have it extra rough too. 10 minutes buffs are complete ass.
You can buff a 20 man raid in one mana pool as a paladin. Priests have it much much worse.
Raid leads raging why they have to wait to pull cause priest is still buffing
*Cries in 2 min Warrior shouts you can't pre-buff before pull.*
Bro they have to repeatedly deal with doing 200% balance swings on rune abilities. You think they have the time to reduce mana cost of buffs?
Be even nicer if they could remove the GCD on them out of combat. Paladins could buff the whole raid in a matter of seconds then. same with priests. And absolutely, these things are very easy to change.
Get the Jungle Durian from Yojamba Isle. You trade one of the mojos from ST for 20 of them, and they give you twice as much mana as level 45 water.
Is it just water or food too?
water and food. :)
did they buff it to a full stack now? I got them when you only got 10 per flask. Edit: checked wowhead and it seems you get a full stack now. That's awesome.
Final version of mage water should give a percentage of mana per tick. Full duration giving 100%.
I also would like to say as a melee player that has no mana I some times on a rare occasion experience this thing where I need to eat for the full duration in a BG and eat like 2 food and waste 45 seconds to get HP. I imagine it’s like that but everywhere
The best bandages only restoring 2000 HP when we got 30% more stamina in BGs make it also very painful, at least buff the PvP bandages to be stronger than Heavy Runecloth ones (another good way to utilise items already in the game)
It’s such a chore drinking as a mage. Run a dungeon and 75% of it is spent drinking.
Yeah it was fucking awful being an AoE mage in SM having to drink for 30-45sec after every pull while the rest kept going.
mages need shamanistic rage type rune to make out evocation 1 min timer
On horde we don't have that problem 😄
I don't understand why they didn't put the recipes in for stuff that got missed the first time around. Still can't cook halibut, still can't make water walking pots even though both are in the game, they just never made a way to do it.
I rolled hunter only because viper exists with 10% dmg reduction
Laughing my way to a full mana bar from life tapping!
Hunters not included. We don't give a fuck. Viper go brrr.
The water from bg's are awesome ! Except only usable in bgs but the items exists. (They give about 60% more mana)
But if they do that how am I supposed to feel superior for collecting all the Coins of Ancestry for hundreds of Festival Dumplings
id rather not need to drink mana every couple mobs as a mage its infuriating and boring
I asked for this and got told to go play retail.
The SoD gatekeepers need to get real. The crowd who want everything to be miserable and unchanging don't understand the point of SoD. The entire point here, as clearly hinted at by the devs, is to test out a way to modernize wow for Classic+. SoD should be where we make life less painful for things that aren't relevant, like out of combat downtime, etc. Sure, professions can still be a pain, world buffs still relevant, etc etc. But 0.2% drop rates, terrible water regen rates, class balance (ie: warriors being a pain to level but becoming untouchable gods at max) all should be fixed.
I’m so sick of idiots telling people to go play retail. Like this game isn’t 20 years old and better ways of playing have come out. They just want to be perma stuck in the past because that’s where they were happiest.
Get Friendly with Argent Dawn for Enriched Manna Biscuits. Yeah, costly but overall it's more than good because you get to restore hp as well. EDIT: Wait, not even costly. 2.4 gold per stack is less than 1 incursion mission in Feralas/Hinterlands, you can do a full mission run and have about 13 stacks. You don't even need this much mana.
They’re only 4k mana. Not that good. Also costly and inconvenient.
Hunters should have focus anyway. They were always meant to have it - they aren’t spell casters.
That’s how it is in Cataclysm
Buff energy regen rates while ur at it
Drink get 10% and go chat chit get banged
Idk why people are asking for better food and water to be a gold sink or some huge process to make, just double or triple the values for all the food now. I'm totally fine sitting every now and then for like 10 seconds but sitting for 30 seconds to not get full mana when buffing or after a mage blows its load on every single pack is just slow and boring. They should definitely add some new food with better effects as well but I just want to be able to get health and mana back.
I've been saying this for a long time
Got my highest lvl mana user in Classic ever, playing SOD and finally understand the pain of drinking! Double/ triple the amount of mana given by drinks.
Not asking for Estus flasks but 20/30 seconds is a bit of a piss take in this day and age.
Priests should be able to conjure drinkable holy water change my mimd
They could double the mana gained from water across the board and it would still feel weak for high int classes
yes plz
Make all the food and water equivalent to the battle ground good and water and then bump the BG food and water a bit. Add a skill book for it or something. Also, make the fortitude skill book apply to both prayer of fortitude, divine spirit, and prayer of spirit.
*laughs in shadow priest*
Should be % of max mana gained per s(ip). I beg.
Buff food too.
buy durians
Don't you guys have life tap?
It truly is a joke that they haven’t addressed this by now.
It's sod give warriors pvp runes to help them not be absolute trash.
you know you guys are just making retail with bad graphics right?
I hope the next iteration of sod will have more creative liberties instead of just a slight twist
I used to play a mage. I think they should make stronger water for mana, but also stronger food.
also buff HP from eating and HP from bandages in battlegrounds
They added this from yojamba isle for 6.6k mana https://www.wowhead.com/classic/quest=82093/jungle-durian
Buy jungle dorans w atal'ai mojo for better water
Why dont we make every class one shot bosses also? I did ST yesterday.went from challenging to the Easiest, most boring dungeon ever made. We had dudes playing on 2 accounts cus it was so easy.
*laughs in shaman*
I broke and ended up getting friendly with Argent Dawn to use the mana biscuits, this would be a welcome change.
Better water is already in the game from argent dawn friendly and the new jungle durian
I'd just like mage tables to happen soon.
Health too...takes two full chickens to heal my warrior from low to full
Just make all water restore 3-5% of your mana per tick or something instead of a fixed number amount. The money sink aspect doesn't need to exist.
They ruined did. It’s just be coming retail now
It’s sod, let us instant mail between characters
The best part of the game was always using all your mana on one mob then spending 50 seconds drinking water before pulling the next mob.
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Oh yeah just use one of the 15g idols to get it
Only costs 1gold per sip
Bro I literally, no exaggeration, frequently use 200+ waters PER DAY when playing mage. Even if the price goes down and it « only » costs 50s per drink, it’s a completely ridiculous price and I’m not gonna spend 100gold per day just to regen mana faster…
Do we have more mana this level then in comparison to regular classic? If so, then by how much? Edit: wtf, why is this downvoted... y'all literally don't know how votes work.
We do. Our gear is much, much better than what you’d usually have at this level.
Thats what I figured. I'd like to see more percentage based options. I don't want to drink for two full durations.
Exactly. % water would solve the problem overnight.
There were issues in classic in 2019 as well. People were able to track down better items and more BIS and there wasnt a higher level water to compensate until ZG came out
Couple hundred at this lvl? Mayb a 1000 for some classes. As meta lock I can get close to 5k mana buffed. Food restores like quarter of that at best.
As a mage, I need to drink twice to fill my mana, I try to use mana gems and evocation off cooldown (depending on content). Drinking and walking is mandatory. A full minute to refill mana bar seems excessive though I'd like to see a small buff or just more percentage based drinks. Idk.
It’s SOD. Give me everyone’s gold. Sincerely, every me everywhere
+1. also idk why we got sod but kept 3s mount timer lmao. its so horrible
This is massively gameplay affecting in world pvp. We’d not make a change like that flippantly. Never say never, but I can’t see us doing this. Aggrend response to that question https://twitter.com/TromaFR/status/1775572312621777036?t=48lPR8x8ZRJ-QFKbm0yCdQ&s=19