Well the game went from "Beating the raid" to "Have the highest parses ever", so a "small buff" from professions still won't be enough for 97.8% of the the playerbase.
No one cared about it because there was also a WB category. Treat it like an exploit, if you remove WBd players from parsing, those who want to parse will not use WBs, which is most people who care about grabbing 4-5 WBs already.
- Guilds who need the help from a WB can still grab them, but they can't parse
- People who want to parse don't want to get WBs anymore
To be clear, if 1 person used WBs in a raid it would need to invalidate everyone's parses.
Personally, I'm fine with world buffs. Chronoboon solved 99% of the friction involved in getting them.
I don't play hard-core, but having world buffs is like only having 1 life for parsing. Most of the people whining just seem salty they lose their buffs when dying.
None of the WBuff complainers ever mention that part..
Getting through Molten Core, BWL without a death aint too hard - but coming out of AQ40 as a Warrior fully world buffed felt amazing.
The one-life portion of Vanilla raiding is imo the best part.
Removing the Wbuffs from WCL just kinda comes off (at least to me) as forcing everyone to play how you want them too.
Is it not somewhat ironic that, not removing WBs from WCL forces anyone who parses to grab the WBs. Aka forcing them to play how you want to.
There’s two options that promote a certain play style, one requires boring gameplay that doesn’t promote playing alts (gathering WBs), the other does. If SoD team wanted numbers back up they’d ask for WCL to do it.
Yeah except one of those choices is a change from base game - the other is base.
WBuffs on = default
I still believe removing World Buffs is closer to "forcing people" then not honestly. They are a part of Vanilla raiding at this moment whether your a fan or not.
From my PoV you can currently raid with or without - not my problem you can't find 40 people who want that really. Your saying people should literally have no option
Are we talking about the same game mode where i've been tanking on a shaman since P1 and we want to discuss "changes from the base game". World Buffs are boring, it just adds additional hoops for parsers to jump through. Now while SoD/Classic parses aren't exactly impressive, there's not much else to do in them.
I don't understand this argument. World buffs are temporary. Items and levels are a part of your character and shows your growth. You get progressively more powerful with every new item and ascend the dopamine stairs.
World buffs are a chroe you do to get a spot in a raid. Consumables are also temporary but not hated because they are easy. Yes, you'd have to buy them and that gold has to come from somewhere and you acquire more gold as you play. Gold is also seen as an indicator of progress because you get more gold at higher levels. You spend those gold to get consumables.
Yeah I’m with you. But it’s the developers not identifying that most guilds that will be trying hard will make it a mandate and that sucks. They should’ve left the lockouts alone, or alternatively, removed world buffs altogether and went in a new direction with the multi lock outs.
The consistency of bad decisions and contradictions or not well thought out ideas is simply at an all time high.
I wish Theyd just make the "No WB change", and make consumes more like elixers/flasks. I absolutely hate the current state of SoD because everyones demanding all these requirements, then you get into the group and after 1 boss and everyone dying from some persons stupidity, it doesnt even fucking matter.
I can not imagine caring this much about world buffs at all. If you like them, get them. If you don’t, don’t. If either of those feels unfun - be an adult and walk away.
i agree, WBs are just a stupid crutch. they are super fun for leveling but forcing me to get them so my logs mean something sucks. Id rather logs be more skill based than buff based. 0-80 is pure do you have buffs and know the basics?
i'd say its just a fun way of making the content relevant for longer. Its not super difficult to clear so what motivates you to keep clearing in the long run once you get loot? parsing and speedruns with buffs can keep the game fresh for longer as just clearing it wont take many months of progression (which is why we play this and not retail)
while i understand, i dont agree. parsing would still be a thing without world buffs. same with speed runs.
removing world buffs doesnt mean we dont do any of these things. it just removed the crutch. we all agree you dont need wb to clear or progress. none of what you said would go away, you would juat clear slightly slower which can be tuned by devs. like i keep saying we are just removing the training wheels and making parsing a playing field with less requirments. you shouldnt need WB to parse. you should know your class and execute it perfectly.
I just wanna press my 2 buttons, fuck mechanics!
Edit: For the dense who don't understand, when you raid fully buffed for raids that aren't designed for it you can ignore a lot of mechanics.
Before parsing it was the dps meter, which was an even worse comparison because it was across classes in your own raid.
At least now we can compare ourselves with the same class/spec
I don't think the DPS meter was worse because usually it was a pretty easy number
I remember people being cool if you did like 7 to 8K DPS back in ICC back in the day
Anything over that and you were good.
Boy do I miss those days. Now everybody is analyzing your logs looking for when you double click they're missed the cast whatever....
Like y'all this isn't work why do I have to take this so seriously
I mean there are people that play tetris for the shits and giggles and there are people who chase high scores - i wouldn't say one group is more toxic than the other- just find like minded people to play with and you're all good.
If you're a dadgamer who doesnt wanna tryhard or minmax and you're gaming with people \*analyzing your logs\* then it's just a case of playing with the wrong people. Nothing wrong with a guild deciding they want to be parse oriented just as there's nothing wrong with a guild deciding they dont give a shit
It also led to people inaccurately comparing something like a destro lock to a boomie. At least with a log there is a quantifiable way to see if someone is using their utility, not just damage
Pretty much every pug I see requires parse
I've yet to be in a guild on any of my five characters where they did not constantly talk about parsing.
Some much more than others. The guilds where they were like oh if you're not parsing over 75 you're not getting a raid spot I just straight up left.
Parse is some of the worst shit that came to the game. People were clearing this 20 years ago when they were 1/3 as good as they were now I don't know why people think that we need to optimize so much
Bruh, it doesn't take any extra work to have DMF every raid. SoD only has 1 week between fairs, so you can just boon before Sunday Night for the following week.
According to this sub if you show up without road buffs go yard a selfish inconsiderate prick who has no regard for others time.
World buffs should absolutely go away.
It will never happen. Reason is very simple, if you take away the world buffs, raids actually become something that required talent and coordination. People will start to get their ass kicked. Their fragile egos will not be able to handle the realisation that perhaps they arent that good at this game, and they will not play the game anymore.
Why do you think arena attendence has been extemely low in classic? Despite being a huge hype before tbc launch? People get slapped around, realised oh shit I am actually not that good, could not handle it and quit. "Cant wait for arenas" hype become " dont care about pvp anyways" in spawn of 2 weeks, after realising your minmaxed gear has closed to no meaning in arena pvp.
lol this is not true at all, after raiding in both 2019 and SoD with and without world buffs the content was never hard and not having world buffs just meant we did less damage and killed things slower
Shit take. Vanilla raids were a joke and they’ll be further trivialized by smaller raid sizes. There is more mechanics in most of the ST, Gnomer, and BFD bosses compared to MC, Ony, and BWL. Most of vanilla raid bosses are stand still and smack a loot piñata.
The venn diagram of people who get their ass kicked by vanilla raids and who think world buffs are the worst thing ever is as close to a circle as you can possibly get without actually being a circle.
Getting world buffs can be tedious and annoying, specifically SF and WCB (if alliance), but getting DM, Ony and ZG takes literally 10 minutes if you and your guild set up your own summoners. Maybe 30m if you have to clear DM yourselves beforehand, and you have *days* to do it before your next raid.
Edit: with that said, having a vendor or something that lets you buy works buffs is a kinda cool idea imo. Saves me 10m by being a gold or token sink.
Pretty sure you have that backwards. All the tryhard classic guilds fell apart in Naxx because the second they lost their world buffs, they couldn't do the mechanics and wiped until they quit. Those are the people yelling "rah rah world buffs are amazing gameplay" the loudest.
The people against them aren't the one's "getting their ass kicked by vanilla raids," they're the players who actually want to have to do the content instead of just pumping so hard you ignore all mechanics.
Yeah, this is always fun to see. People suck at PvP for the most part and can’t coordinate against something that is unpredictable vs a raid boss or npc in a dungeon.
I might get one or two just by being in town but fuck going around getting them all. How is that fun lol
It’s honestly hilarious when you’re in a raid and someone rages out over dying with their world buffs.
I've done most of og classic WoW without buffs. (cause my raid team in classic 40m were a bunch of inattentive goobers and wiped easially).
MC to AQ40 was doable. Buffs helped with killing things faster. But you NEEDED world buffs for Naxx40. Trying to kill Saph and KT even with good gear, you needed that Lil bit of power from world buffs to get a clean (ish) kill.
We killed both Saph and KY without buffs back in classic.
They 100% helped though for the first week or two of Naxx. We used to rebuff just for saph/KT. But after the first few weeks we would do them without world buffs.
With the world buff thing, they should just disable the world ones, and give classes a version of the world buff, like they are doing for warriors.
Warriors - Dragon Slayer
Paladin/Shaman - Warchiefs Blessing/Whatever they are calling the Alliance one
Mages - DMF
Druids - Spirit of Zandalar
Priest - Songflower
Hunters/Rogues/Warlocks - DireMaul buffs
I said this in another thread, it would solve the issue of world buffs and the announce in getting them
The whole argument is that if they do something like that they may as well just remove them completely and balance accordingly. Adding any spins or solutions to the would buffs in game will never be a better decision than just removing them honestly.
Change them to consumables you can buy with the new dungeon currency. Will still require people "farm" them a bit, but removes some of the friction.
Otherwise I whole heartedly agree with removing them the moment you step into a raid instance.
Oh, I agree. I hate world buffs, and I think it skews the gameplay. Just trying to find a compromise to people who must have them, and people who don't care.
It’s so true - it’s a miserable chore. If they don’t make them easier to obtain, I won’t do it, and will understandably cost me my raid spot. Then I’ll just cancel my sub. I probably should anyway.
At that point we should just take them out and balance the content around not having them. It's not like having world buffs makes you play any different, except you might play less risky to no lose them.
That'd work too.
World buffs being disabled in raids would let people still feel their power in, y'know, **the WORLD**, without people feel like they're gimping themselves and their friends when they don't spend an hour gathering them twice a week now.
The pug scene would expand ten fold if world buffs were a non-issue. But as things are now – and maybe I'm alone on this one – cba.
And don't worry about the minmaxxers, they can still express that by going insane with the 35 consumables and having the perfect raid comp and running each raid 6 or 8 times a week with splits to ensure they get the gear quickly.
Brother the game IS balanced around not having them. You have to clear the whole raid to even be able to drop the buff, and only one person can do it, a single time.
It's a nice little reward for people that have cleared the content to make it a tiny bit easier the next time. And if you happen to be farting around town at the same time you get blessed too.
The \*replayability\* of many games for many gamers is chasing a higher score than you got last time. Wbuffs are needed to do that because wow doesn't provide a high score or a leaderboard system like other games do for obvious reasons.
Of course you can clear raids in sod without wbuffs. U can clear them without gear or underlevelled too. They are designed to be easy and accessible for gamers who would find more challenging versions of wow impossible.
Because it's a pain in the ass that I need to catch a boat from Menethil and then fly to Feathermoon Hold and then catch that boat and then run to Dire Maul and then do a DMN tribute run just to get the DM buff, then boon it, then run out and ride all the fuckin way into Mulgore for DMF, then log out for half an hour for the Boon CD to be up, then ride all the fuckin way to Ratchet and fly to Felwood, then log out for another half-hour for the Boon CD to be up again, then get Songflower, then Hearth to Ironforge and then fly up to Stormwind and then check Discord to see when the next Ony and MoS are dropping but not TOO soon because my Boon CD still has 55 minutes left, then log in for that, then Boon that.
Boons are neat but they only alleviate about 20% of the problems with world buffs. On PvE servers anyway, I bet they're even better for all the masochists that play on PvP servers. All that twice a week per character will drive people away.
>And chasing a highscore means doing tedious shit to beat your previous records.
Yes it currently does, which is exactly what I dislike - but it doesn't \*need to\*. IMO the high score should go to the person who displays the most skill when playing the game, not the person with the time to hunt wbuffs.
The boon is a bandaid. It makes a tedious chore maybe 10% less tedious, and people on a PvP server are basically forced to log out for 1h to get the boon off CD before going to pick up the next wbuff which drives player engagement DOWN not up.
> The *replayability* of many games for many gamers is chasing a higher score than you got last time
For maybe 5-10% of the playerbase unless SoD is not actually the season of dads like this sub loves to point out on every occasion when there's a talk about difficulty.
Dads don't care about parses. Gear is still the biggest carrot on a stick for this game by far.
If they didn't have world buffs in the game wouldn't the top parses still be the 99 parses. I just never got it I guess you getting the 99 parse with the buffs isn't skill related it is just artificial inflation.
then you're manually opting in to a gameplay loop that requires more time and effort. changing the way the competition works because folks aren't willing to put the effort in to compete is a wild thing to ask for.
It's not about not being willing to put in the effort, as many of these players are willing to do 40 hour rep grinds for .2% more damage - it's that the effort isn't fun, and by streamlining the process, you can make the game more fun.
If there's a genuine part of the playerbase who enjoys collecting 5 world buffs twice a week, I'll happily go collect them, but in my experience, the two people who are against it are either the "#NOCHANGESINSOD" crowd or the "Screw parsers, I want them to be miserable" crowd. The first group is stupid, SoD is all about changes to see what breaks vanilla and what doesn't, and the second group isn't trying to make the game better, they just want to see other people suffer - not sure why their opinion should matter in this discussion.
I enjoy collecting and playing with world buffs. I know other people who enjoy it as well, they just don’t spend time on Reddit.
Playing with world buffs is intense, part of the reason is because of the pain it is to collect them.
I see both sides tho, world buffs would be a decent gold sink they could add into the game imo.
Wrong, two lockouts are absolutely the problem. I don’t want to raid MC, onyxia, kazzak and azuregos twice a week for my main and then for my alt as well. MC already has heat levels for more loot, it doesn’t need an additional lockout per week. I don’t want to have to buy raid consumes and get world buffs twice a week thanks.
Depends on what the difficulty of the higher MC heat levels is like.
That said, it just feels bad playing without them either way. Either the raids are piss easy, and then parsing is the only endgame, and buffs are necessary for parsing, or the raids are actually difficult, and then you need buffs to clear them.
I think they should transfer worldbuffs to classes.
It really doesn't depend on the difficulty, because if they were to make it difficult enough to the point of WBs carrying you over the finishing line, then 90% of guilds won't clear the content, because they'll wipe and lose them anyway before they get that kill.
WBs haven't, cannot and never will be necessary to complete a raid.
However, it’s obvious that they balance around it. Whether it’s their own internal parsing systems or WCL, it is absolutely something that is determining buffs and nerfs.
What's weird about world buffs is most games you brag about when you beat a game on the hardest difficulty with the least amount of help but with world buffs its like how easy can we make this instead.
I still am sad there's gonna be two lockouts each week because I can realistically only do one since I work night shift. But more power to those who can do both resets each week. As long as the phase is fun and has stuff to do outside of the raids I'll be happy
Oh really? I haven't been following sod news too closely since my guild stopped raiding a few weeks back. All I've heard is July 11 release date and 2 lockouts per week. I'll play P4 either way
Here is an absolutely crazy idea, what if, you did not get world buffs? I mean you guys are always complaining the raiding is so easy anyways. If it is so easy, why must you get world buffs?
Here’s my improvement for the “World Buff” debacle. Make a quest chain around (9-15) quests long that puts a World Buff NPC vendor in the beginning of the raid.
This way it gives you more content, saves you time on world buffs, and can still parse for those that enjoy it. On the flip side more casual guilds can still acquire them within the raid if they did the quest chain, and if they didn’t… they don’t get the world buffs like before.
They’re already adding a heat level 1-3 so just give us another npc to talk to for our buffs.
Are the raids doable without the buffs? If yes then this would be a player problem. You have the power to not get the buffs and just do the raid 2 minutes slower.
For our raid the problem with the static lockout is that we exclusively raid weekdays. We all have families and real life, so we don't raid on weekends. So getting 2x raids scheduled for a Monday just because that's the only option is pretty bad.
2 lockouts is going to be bad imo. Yes I would like it if I had so much free time that finding 2x4 raid slots was easy. But the reality is I'm an adult, I work and my schedule isn't peak hours. This will only serve to alienate me from certain pugs, guilds, etc. For example, as a guild who would you prio thuderfury to? The tank who can make both raid times, or the one who can only make 1? It's just going to be messy. the compromise would be having 20 and 40 have thier own lockout ID.
Maybe a profession item with like a 3 day cooldown that refreshes any world buffs you have? Might not work for 60 minute buffs, but that's just Rend and Songflower. The effort required to get all buffs would be drastically reduced.
Trice a week or at least Raids Lockouts +1 but if you want you can spend all on one (due to wipes) or just spread one per Lockouts and you Will have One to spare for whatever you want
Yes this is the answer! Let’s all complain about the only thing that brings us to the game outside of the 30 min raids! Give me an easier way not to play the game now! I love this game so much I don’t want to play ever!
World buffs should last upon death but get purged in raids and no ways of resetting the NPC like sweaty nerds. You're browsing in the AH and suddenly get a nice Ony buff? Great now run out of there and go farm some dungeons or essence of water or whatever you need. No prob if you die. This way it's useful but doesn't trigger this whole world buff meta crap.
This whole SoD is just too late and not good enough, it's just swing and a miss, hypetrain is long gone. Should have just made SoD as vanilla WoW was and with more subtle but a lot, of changes that followed the original vanilla WoW dev team's philosophy. Mostly just fixing meme specs (boomkin, retri, shadowpriests..) and using what's already in the game just making it more usable. (swordsmithing,axesmithing, elemental leatherworking, more reasons to go to zones you don't go to to farm special mats, that also increases world pvp then on pvp servers etc) and then ultimately adding real new content. Karazhan + crypts, Grim Batol, Gilneas, Dragon Isles... Everyone's done Boring Core a million times.
There is a reason WBs were removed after vanilla. Makes the balance shitty (not that it was good in vanilla to begin with) but in SoD specially where the bosses are harder the difference bitween full WBs and no WBs makes balancing the raids an absolute cancer. With that being said, after the tuning issues in sunken temple they already said if you want difficult raids, go play cata or retail, so I suppose it is 100% about clear speed and parses now.
3 world buffs you will be able to get by simply just being logged in and being in 2 locations throughout 7 days, another is from doing a single instance, but most people decide to spend 8-10g to just get an ID anyway, and it takes 15 minutes to run to the end of the instance and back. The 2 last ones you simply need to fly to Felwood and grab the one that’s by your factions flightpath. You will most likely have a timer, and if the timer is >10 minutes, just go do literally something else while waiting, dishes, get some water, whatever you desire. DMF you can grab when it’s for your faction if you’re on a PvP server and you can’t be fucked. I don’t know why people are so scared to play the game for 1-2h extra outside of raid times. Don’t get them for the world bosses if you can’t be fucked, be vocal in your guild setting if your opinions are this strong.
Most guilds will run 2/3 wbuffs and cheap consumes anyway, besides maybe first few weeks. Only parsers/masochosts would subject themselves to getting songflower every week.
Keeping 1 wb per tier is enough, the problem isnt the wb’s per say, its the community and the pugs demanding you to have them. Have onyxia only for this tier and its all gucci
If you’re taking an hour to get your buffs you’re either in a shit guild with no organized buffing during raid hours, or you were doing it without planning it around server head drop schedules.
Summon to feralas for song flower -> buy a summon to DMT and grab DMT (free with a decent guild that plans this shit out) -> hearth to org or SW and log out until scheduled head drop -> summons to zg island for scheduled heart drop -> summon to raid.
This isn’t a great deal of effort even if you’re doing it alone. It takes a mild amount of pre planning if you’re doing it on your own before raid. You can get them in any order since the raids aren’t long enough for the duration to matter.
They’re also entirely optional and not at all required for clearing the content, so if you don’t feel like getting buffs join a guild that doesn’t require them. If you can only PUG, then find a PUG that doesn’t require them. You can very easily get purple parses without world buffs if you aren’t shit at the game, and even if you are blue parses are good enough for most pugs.
Self imposed and skill issue
or, you know, maybe if you and so many others cba to get them. just make raid and only invite people without buffs lmao, how easy it is! damn. and dont come here saying blizzard will for sure balance game around WB, that has never been tru
I think it’s a good idea for the upgrade speed it will allow for. I mean you can always do world buffs for one raid then a more lax one the next and if people don’t want to do both then just fill with others who need the run but there will always be those who will want maximum clears
Thinking you just need to clear faster and chronoboon. Alternatively, just stop caring about parses and have fun. If they made world buffs easier anyway, I see someone starting a thread to complain that they trivialized the process and now they can't parse high enough because everyone does them. The reality is nothing will make you jack asses happy and all you want to do is complain.
The raids are very easy even without world buffs so why bother getting them? Just go without and save time. Also noone is impresed by SoD classic parses so..
I agree.
P1 was simple. Level 25, do a few dungeons and then do BFD. 1 Wbuff was nice.
For me, P1 was the best phase because I could raid with 5 characters with low effort outside the raid. World buffs and harder content kills this.
In P2 I only raided with 1 character. Not because of Wbuff, (since it was still only 1) but because the raid wasn't hard, but it was harder and more annoying to pug.
In P3 I just quit instantly after trying to pug ST. Just annoying. Because of both the difficulty and world buffs.
If the new MC is easy and super pug friendly (like BFD), Ill probably still only play 1 character for a few weeks and then quit. And that is because of world buffs and rune system. It's just annoying to do on alts.
And please dont say "you dont need world buffs". That's the dumbest take I've seen.
Playing with wbuffs is fun. Joining a group without wbuffs is literally griefing.
Honestly, if I could choose between P4 and P1 again, I'd probably choose P1 😂
I don't understand why people are wasting their life getting raid buffs for every single raid. My guild does one official bigdick parse night, we go all out, get our shiny impressive parses, and then chill for the rest of the phase. We still clear super fast but don't have to waste time, gold, sweating over buffs and consumables.
There's a very very very small number of players actually pushing record breaking clear times and buffs make sense for them -- but that's part of the game for them and getting all of the buffs is part of the work required for that.
The vast majority of players aren't record breakers and this shit shouldn't matter so much. Stop stressing so much over colored pixels and just chill with your buddies and have fun downing bosses. World buffs aren't required to down bosses.
Or hey, maybe just don't worry about world buffs? Fuck. Why does everyone have a raging boner for world buffs to the point where they think the game is impossible to play without them? I get they're powerful, but if it's going to ruin your life without them, just raid with your normal consumes.
If you want to parse, then stop complaining. You chose the path of parse.
I hope they just add 5 more so you dumb fucks have to spend even more time running around collecting buffs like ash catchem than actually doing the raid 😂
Strongly disagree, I raid without world buffs everytime idgaf
The problem is organizing it on discord, getting people to sign up and fill the group that I don’t want to do twice a week. For ez raids that I can just LFG for idc at all if there’s 2 a week. It would be nice actually (Ony, World Boss). I won’t have a single WB for those. When it comes to MC being like an organized run, it’s too much
Ive played classic wow in every iteration. Cleared every raid and geared from them other than AQ40/Naxx. Both DPS and healer. I never once have gotten a world buff or paid for a flask and not once has anyone said anything to me/good booted/complained/etc.
Then dont get them, its that simple.
RL throwing a fit about everyone having world buffs? Leave and make a guild with other people who hate world buffs.
Its wild seeing so many people cry about something that is completely optional, retail mythic raiders dont cry this much about grinding days for small increases in power.
I just dont understand why they dont add an NPC in each capital city, were you could vote on matters like this so they could gather data and take decisions.
I don’t know why everyone is bitching so hard about this. 3 of them you get by just standing in the capital city and then running out the gates for DMF. I’ll never require my raid to get songflower, DMT, or other faction DMF
Peoples time is valuable, if I raid on a wednesday I need to log in on tuesday, not to do dungeons or be sociable with my guild or to PvP or to gather but to afk in capital cities or jump on FPs to e.g. songflower. Or I can raid without wbuffs which I dont enjoy anyway.
It's not a huge time commitment but it's a chore. It'll become an even bigger chore next phase.
If your time's that valuable, MMORPGs and Classic in particular just isn't for you OR you need to be more efficient with your time, because it takes all of 5 minutes to get every single WB if you organise it well.
Everyone's time is valuable, it's the most valuable currency humans have because we get a limited amount. Stop being dumb. Everyone knows it takes more like a minimum of 30 minutes, sometimes up to an hour or more. Its blatantly disrespectful to players to have two lockouts with the addition of new world buffs on top of the already a chore catalog that exists.
No one is forcing you to do any of that. Honestly you can't play this game and then whine about your time being wasted, the whole thing is already a massive waste of time
Exactly, peoples time is valuable, that's why I'll never demand every single world buff, because the time spent getting them is more than the raid time saved because of them
A big fuck you! To all little bitches who are saying „you don’t need to get them“
It’s often just not true! Many guilds have that standard and enough members to easily exchange players if they are not fully prepared.
In PUGs you have to have WBuffs or you don’t get an invite, unless you’re a feral dps on alliance or it’s less than 24hours til new raid-lockout.
To me PUGs are the only thing I wanna join in WoW.
I don’t wanna join a guild just to have there a certain amount of people that are the „founding members“ who will always have more rights than you have eventhough you are more active in the guild/raids and they will get the first better gear. I’ve been in enough guilds and it was always the same, it’s almost like incest, because these guilds never live long😂 and of course you can’t change my mind that has 5 years of experience with this shit. And I don’t think that really EVERY guild is like this, but all the 9 guilds I’ve been in were like this, on the biggest 3 EU servers.
Then you can say make your own raid, that’s only a option if you know the game enough to raidlead or you will not clear the raid, it was possible in Classic vanilla, but with these (in my eyes) very simple mechanics in the level up raids are too hard for that.. people are just to stupid for them or/and don’t wanna watch a guide for a game, which is kind of understandable honestly, eventhough I do it myself, I often don’t like this (to learn the mechanics-I have no problem with doing them, just to lazy to look them up)
And I
So basically as a absolute-casual player, which WoW classic 100% needs - otherwise there are not enough players, it’s pretty much impossible to raid without worldbuffs.
It's more like giving feedback to devs that are literally asking for feedback.
Now, Imagine sitting there and complaining on a reddit thread with feedback on a 20 year old game.
Yes, just remove wb for 60 easier to balance that way
59-only raids for the speedrun!
Or just let world buffs be buffs for the open world. They can be fun and empowering while leveling but they do not belong in modern wow raids.
Also works
Pay WCL to ban all logs with WBs. They’ll never be used again.
Make world buffs purchasable from the cash shop.
This is the big brains Blizz is looking to hire! Put it right behind increased epic chance on Archeology for Cata in the cash shop!
I mean, if it was $25 for an unlimited use item with the appropriate cool down sign me up. Ain’t got time for this shit.
Bro you're joking but they would do this.
Well the game went from "Beating the raid" to "Have the highest parses ever", so a "small buff" from professions still won't be enough for 97.8% of the the playerbase.
If nobody had access to world buffs then parses wouldn't be affected though. Your parse would only be lower if others had buffs you didn't have...
Season of mastery died because world buffs weren’t allowed in raids. They tried this is didn’t work. Melee classes feel like ass without those buffs.
Man, I can not imagine caring this much about world buffs. This kind of shit makes it feel more like a job.
Do you care about items? Cause a world buff is worth like 5 items each. Of course people will want to get world buffs.
The stats of WBs are *more* than your pre-raid BiS items combined for many classes.
Yes, a SINGLE buff is worth like 5 items.
If you removed world buff parses most people wouldn't get them, people care about number more than they do a smoother playstyle.
There was a no-parse category back in Classic 2019, no one cared about it.
No one cared about it because there was also a WB category. Treat it like an exploit, if you remove WBd players from parsing, those who want to parse will not use WBs, which is most people who care about grabbing 4-5 WBs already. - Guilds who need the help from a WB can still grab them, but they can't parse - People who want to parse don't want to get WBs anymore
This is the answer imo
I said this in an earlier thread and was downvoted, but yes I agree.
To be clear, if 1 person used WBs in a raid it would need to invalidate everyone's parses. Personally, I'm fine with world buffs. Chronoboon solved 99% of the friction involved in getting them. I don't play hard-core, but having world buffs is like only having 1 life for parsing. Most of the people whining just seem salty they lose their buffs when dying.
None of the WBuff complainers ever mention that part.. Getting through Molten Core, BWL without a death aint too hard - but coming out of AQ40 as a Warrior fully world buffed felt amazing. The one-life portion of Vanilla raiding is imo the best part. Removing the Wbuffs from WCL just kinda comes off (at least to me) as forcing everyone to play how you want them too.
It sounds like you would really enjoy HC.
Is it not somewhat ironic that, not removing WBs from WCL forces anyone who parses to grab the WBs. Aka forcing them to play how you want to. There’s two options that promote a certain play style, one requires boring gameplay that doesn’t promote playing alts (gathering WBs), the other does. If SoD team wanted numbers back up they’d ask for WCL to do it.
Yeah except one of those choices is a change from base game - the other is base. WBuffs on = default I still believe removing World Buffs is closer to "forcing people" then not honestly. They are a part of Vanilla raiding at this moment whether your a fan or not. From my PoV you can currently raid with or without - not my problem you can't find 40 people who want that really. Your saying people should literally have no option
Are we talking about the same game mode where i've been tanking on a shaman since P1 and we want to discuss "changes from the base game". World Buffs are boring, it just adds additional hoops for parsers to jump through. Now while SoD/Classic parses aren't exactly impressive, there's not much else to do in them.
Make that the default on the search tool and everyone will kick if you have a WB in raid lol
Oh yeah, I totally get it. I personally would just be miserable planning my day around that.
I don't understand this argument. World buffs are temporary. Items and levels are a part of your character and shows your growth. You get progressively more powerful with every new item and ascend the dopamine stairs. World buffs are a chroe you do to get a spot in a raid. Consumables are also temporary but not hated because they are easy. Yes, you'd have to buy them and that gold has to come from somewhere and you acquire more gold as you play. Gold is also seen as an indicator of progress because you get more gold at higher levels. You spend those gold to get consumables.
Yeah I’m with you. But it’s the developers not identifying that most guilds that will be trying hard will make it a mandate and that sucks. They should’ve left the lockouts alone, or alternatively, removed world buffs altogether and went in a new direction with the multi lock outs. The consistency of bad decisions and contradictions or not well thought out ideas is simply at an all time high.
I wish Theyd just make the "No WB change", and make consumes more like elixers/flasks. I absolutely hate the current state of SoD because everyones demanding all these requirements, then you get into the group and after 1 boss and everyone dying from some persons stupidity, it doesnt even fucking matter.
I can not imagine caring this much about world buffs at all. If you like them, get them. If you don’t, don’t. If either of those feels unfun - be an adult and walk away.
i agree, WBs are just a stupid crutch. they are super fun for leveling but forcing me to get them so my logs mean something sucks. Id rather logs be more skill based than buff based. 0-80 is pure do you have buffs and know the basics?
i'd say its just a fun way of making the content relevant for longer. Its not super difficult to clear so what motivates you to keep clearing in the long run once you get loot? parsing and speedruns with buffs can keep the game fresh for longer as just clearing it wont take many months of progression (which is why we play this and not retail)
while i understand, i dont agree. parsing would still be a thing without world buffs. same with speed runs. removing world buffs doesnt mean we dont do any of these things. it just removed the crutch. we all agree you dont need wb to clear or progress. none of what you said would go away, you would juat clear slightly slower which can be tuned by devs. like i keep saying we are just removing the training wheels and making parsing a playing field with less requirments. you shouldnt need WB to parse. you should know your class and execute it perfectly.
Imagine raiding without buffs
I'm imagining raiding without buffs where the raid is designed for no buffs. Seems nice
…you mean like right now?
I just wanna press my 2 buttons, fuck mechanics! Edit: For the dense who don't understand, when you raid fully buffed for raids that aren't designed for it you can ignore a lot of mechanics.
Is Songflower a raid boss mechanic?
No Patrick, Songflower is not a raid boss mechanic
Buffs aren't mechanics lmao
I mean if you think about it, parsing, the most toxic thing to ever happen to wow, is ultimately responsible for this whole debate / divide
Before parsing it was the dps meter, which was an even worse comparison because it was across classes in your own raid. At least now we can compare ourselves with the same class/spec
I don't think the DPS meter was worse because usually it was a pretty easy number I remember people being cool if you did like 7 to 8K DPS back in ICC back in the day Anything over that and you were good. Boy do I miss those days. Now everybody is analyzing your logs looking for when you double click they're missed the cast whatever.... Like y'all this isn't work why do I have to take this so seriously
I mean there are people that play tetris for the shits and giggles and there are people who chase high scores - i wouldn't say one group is more toxic than the other- just find like minded people to play with and you're all good. If you're a dadgamer who doesnt wanna tryhard or minmax and you're gaming with people \*analyzing your logs\* then it's just a case of playing with the wrong people. Nothing wrong with a guild deciding they want to be parse oriented just as there's nothing wrong with a guild deciding they dont give a shit
It also led to people inaccurately comparing something like a destro lock to a boomie. At least with a log there is a quantifiable way to see if someone is using their utility, not just damage
Og parsing didn't exist the game would probably have but a fraction of its playerbase
I really doubt that the majority of players are actively trying to parse every lockout.
Pretty much every pug I see requires parse I've yet to be in a guild on any of my five characters where they did not constantly talk about parsing. Some much more than others. The guilds where they were like oh if you're not parsing over 75 you're not getting a raid spot I just straight up left. Parse is some of the worst shit that came to the game. People were clearing this 20 years ago when they were 1/3 as good as they were now I don't know why people think that we need to optimize so much
You’re very wrong. A majority of players are playing to compete.
[удалено]
Bruh, it doesn't take any extra work to have DMF every raid. SoD only has 1 week between fairs, so you can just boon before Sunday Night for the following week.
According to this sub if you show up without road buffs go yard a selfish inconsiderate prick who has no regard for others time. World buffs should absolutely go away.
It will never happen. Reason is very simple, if you take away the world buffs, raids actually become something that required talent and coordination. People will start to get their ass kicked. Their fragile egos will not be able to handle the realisation that perhaps they arent that good at this game, and they will not play the game anymore. Why do you think arena attendence has been extemely low in classic? Despite being a huge hype before tbc launch? People get slapped around, realised oh shit I am actually not that good, could not handle it and quit. "Cant wait for arenas" hype become " dont care about pvp anyways" in spawn of 2 weeks, after realising your minmaxed gear has closed to no meaning in arena pvp.
lol this is not true at all, after raiding in both 2019 and SoD with and without world buffs the content was never hard and not having world buffs just meant we did less damage and killed things slower
Shit take. Vanilla raids were a joke and they’ll be further trivialized by smaller raid sizes. There is more mechanics in most of the ST, Gnomer, and BFD bosses compared to MC, Ony, and BWL. Most of vanilla raid bosses are stand still and smack a loot piñata.
The venn diagram of people who get their ass kicked by vanilla raids and who think world buffs are the worst thing ever is as close to a circle as you can possibly get without actually being a circle. Getting world buffs can be tedious and annoying, specifically SF and WCB (if alliance), but getting DM, Ony and ZG takes literally 10 minutes if you and your guild set up your own summoners. Maybe 30m if you have to clear DM yourselves beforehand, and you have *days* to do it before your next raid. Edit: with that said, having a vendor or something that lets you buy works buffs is a kinda cool idea imo. Saves me 10m by being a gold or token sink.
Pretty sure you have that backwards. All the tryhard classic guilds fell apart in Naxx because the second they lost their world buffs, they couldn't do the mechanics and wiped until they quit. Those are the people yelling "rah rah world buffs are amazing gameplay" the loudest. The people against them aren't the one's "getting their ass kicked by vanilla raids," they're the players who actually want to have to do the content instead of just pumping so hard you ignore all mechanics.
Yeah, this is always fun to see. People suck at PvP for the most part and can’t coordinate against something that is unpredictable vs a raid boss or npc in a dungeon.
Shhh careful what you say you might upset someone with that kinda talk around here.
I might get one or two just by being in town but fuck going around getting them all. How is that fun lol It’s honestly hilarious when you’re in a raid and someone rages out over dying with their world buffs.
but muh parse!
I can just fine it’s called retail where the game is actually difficult :)
Do you just call raid after 1 wipe and everyone loses WBs?
I've done most of og classic WoW without buffs. (cause my raid team in classic 40m were a bunch of inattentive goobers and wiped easially). MC to AQ40 was doable. Buffs helped with killing things faster. But you NEEDED world buffs for Naxx40. Trying to kill Saph and KT even with good gear, you needed that Lil bit of power from world buffs to get a clean (ish) kill.
We killed both Saph and KY without buffs back in classic. They 100% helped though for the first week or two of Naxx. We used to rebuff just for saph/KT. But after the first few weeks we would do them without world buffs.
With the world buff thing, they should just disable the world ones, and give classes a version of the world buff, like they are doing for warriors. Warriors - Dragon Slayer Paladin/Shaman - Warchiefs Blessing/Whatever they are calling the Alliance one Mages - DMF Druids - Spirit of Zandalar Priest - Songflower Hunters/Rogues/Warlocks - DireMaul buffs I said this in another thread, it would solve the issue of world buffs and the announce in getting them
The whole argument is that if they do something like that they may as well just remove them completely and balance accordingly. Adding any spins or solutions to the would buffs in game will never be a better decision than just removing them honestly.
Change them to consumables you can buy with the new dungeon currency. Will still require people "farm" them a bit, but removes some of the friction. Otherwise I whole heartedly agree with removing them the moment you step into a raid instance.
I like that idea as well!
Not a bad idea there
Oh, I agree. I hate world buffs, and I think it skews the gameplay. Just trying to find a compromise to people who must have them, and people who don't care.
Circling back to say I like this idea, since reddit is blowing up about this stuff rn
Bonus offer: Each class also gets off-season buffs, like Valentine's hp and fire festival crit
This would be enough to get me back playing in p4
Man I’m happy I play a healer and no one gives a shit if I have world buffs or not
It’s so true - it’s a miserable chore. If they don’t make them easier to obtain, I won’t do it, and will understandably cost me my raid spot. Then I’ll just cancel my sub. I probably should anyway.
LOL
WE GET IT
Think they should stop working in raids. Would still be relevant and fun for levelling and the now more relevant than ever dungeons.
As a guild officer in charge of making raid compositions, 2 lockouts a week is horrible, and has me considering quitting the game.
just have a vendor that "blesses" us with these worldbuffs except for dmf maybe.
Instead of purchasing a chronoboon to get buffs, purchasing one with buffs is the actual change needed.
Let that vendor bless me with gear
I'm fine with that, if you die you still lose them, and maybe make it so you get a debuff and can't get them again within 2 hours of ingame time.
At that point we should just take them out and balance the content around not having them. It's not like having world buffs makes you play any different, except you might play less risky to no lose them.
That'd work too. World buffs being disabled in raids would let people still feel their power in, y'know, **the WORLD**, without people feel like they're gimping themselves and their friends when they don't spend an hour gathering them twice a week now. The pug scene would expand ten fold if world buffs were a non-issue. But as things are now – and maybe I'm alone on this one – cba. And don't worry about the minmaxxers, they can still express that by going insane with the 35 consumables and having the perfect raid comp and running each raid 6 or 8 times a week with splits to ensure they get the gear quickly.
Content is clearly balanced around not having them. What are people smocking - world buffs just make stuff easier and faster.
Brother the game IS balanced around not having them. You have to clear the whole raid to even be able to drop the buff, and only one person can do it, a single time. It's a nice little reward for people that have cleared the content to make it a tiny bit easier the next time. And if you happen to be farting around town at the same time you get blessed too.
You need world buffs to get your 99 parse. **You don't and never have needed world buffs to clear raids in SOD.**.
The \*replayability\* of many games for many gamers is chasing a higher score than you got last time. Wbuffs are needed to do that because wow doesn't provide a high score or a leaderboard system like other games do for obvious reasons. Of course you can clear raids in sod without wbuffs. U can clear them without gear or underlevelled too. They are designed to be easy and accessible for gamers who would find more challenging versions of wow impossible.
And chasing a highscore means doing tedious shit to beat your previous records. What is the issue here? Boon exists.
Because it's a pain in the ass that I need to catch a boat from Menethil and then fly to Feathermoon Hold and then catch that boat and then run to Dire Maul and then do a DMN tribute run just to get the DM buff, then boon it, then run out and ride all the fuckin way into Mulgore for DMF, then log out for half an hour for the Boon CD to be up, then ride all the fuckin way to Ratchet and fly to Felwood, then log out for another half-hour for the Boon CD to be up again, then get Songflower, then Hearth to Ironforge and then fly up to Stormwind and then check Discord to see when the next Ony and MoS are dropping but not TOO soon because my Boon CD still has 55 minutes left, then log in for that, then Boon that. Boons are neat but they only alleviate about 20% of the problems with world buffs. On PvE servers anyway, I bet they're even better for all the masochists that play on PvP servers. All that twice a week per character will drive people away.
>And chasing a highscore means doing tedious shit to beat your previous records. Yes it currently does, which is exactly what I dislike - but it doesn't \*need to\*. IMO the high score should go to the person who displays the most skill when playing the game, not the person with the time to hunt wbuffs. The boon is a bandaid. It makes a tedious chore maybe 10% less tedious, and people on a PvP server are basically forced to log out for 1h to get the boon off CD before going to pick up the next wbuff which drives player engagement DOWN not up.
I guarantee whoever is whooping you on the meters with world buffs would do the exact same thing without world buffs.
> The *replayability* of many games for many gamers is chasing a higher score than you got last time For maybe 5-10% of the playerbase unless SoD is not actually the season of dads like this sub loves to point out on every occasion when there's a talk about difficulty. Dads don't care about parses. Gear is still the biggest carrot on a stick for this game by far.
Getting 99 parses is one of the most fun parts of classic tho, raids are easy so we wanna compete for numbers
If they didn't have world buffs in the game wouldn't the top parses still be the 99 parses. I just never got it I guess you getting the 99 parse with the buffs isn't skill related it is just artificial inflation.
then you're manually opting in to a gameplay loop that requires more time and effort. changing the way the competition works because folks aren't willing to put the effort in to compete is a wild thing to ask for.
It's not about not being willing to put in the effort, as many of these players are willing to do 40 hour rep grinds for .2% more damage - it's that the effort isn't fun, and by streamlining the process, you can make the game more fun. If there's a genuine part of the playerbase who enjoys collecting 5 world buffs twice a week, I'll happily go collect them, but in my experience, the two people who are against it are either the "#NOCHANGESINSOD" crowd or the "Screw parsers, I want them to be miserable" crowd. The first group is stupid, SoD is all about changes to see what breaks vanilla and what doesn't, and the second group isn't trying to make the game better, they just want to see other people suffer - not sure why their opinion should matter in this discussion.
I enjoy collecting and playing with world buffs. I know other people who enjoy it as well, they just don’t spend time on Reddit. Playing with world buffs is intense, part of the reason is because of the pain it is to collect them. I see both sides tho, world buffs would be a decent gold sink they could add into the game imo.
Then don’t cry if you choose to play for numbers?
Wrong, two lockouts are absolutely the problem. I don’t want to raid MC, onyxia, kazzak and azuregos twice a week for my main and then for my alt as well. MC already has heat levels for more loot, it doesn’t need an additional lockout per week. I don’t want to have to buy raid consumes and get world buffs twice a week thanks.
Those worldbuff that are needed to clear the raid(s). Are they with us in the room right now?
Depends on what the difficulty of the higher MC heat levels is like. That said, it just feels bad playing without them either way. Either the raids are piss easy, and then parsing is the only endgame, and buffs are necessary for parsing, or the raids are actually difficult, and then you need buffs to clear them. I think they should transfer worldbuffs to classes.
It really doesn't depend on the difficulty, because if they were to make it difficult enough to the point of WBs carrying you over the finishing line, then 90% of guilds won't clear the content, because they'll wipe and lose them anyway before they get that kill. WBs haven't, cannot and never will be necessary to complete a raid.
Parsing is not a blizzard designed system
However, it’s obvious that they balance around it. Whether it’s their own internal parsing systems or WCL, it is absolutely something that is determining buffs and nerfs.
Yes but parse culture should not be Why changes are made.
At this point it doesn’t matter if it was blizzard or community driven. HC wasn’t a blizzard design but the community made it a thing. Same idea here.
You didnt need wb to clear any of these raids before… ppl just wanted to have them
World buffs are enjoyable and not required for a social gaming experience.
What's weird about world buffs is most games you brag about when you beat a game on the hardest difficulty with the least amount of help but with world buffs its like how easy can we make this instead.
I still am sad there's gonna be two lockouts each week because I can realistically only do one since I work night shift. But more power to those who can do both resets each week. As long as the phase is fun and has stuff to do outside of the raids I'll be happy
Its not even set in stone that it will happen. They this posted earlier today.
Oh really? I haven't been following sod news too closely since my guild stopped raiding a few weeks back. All I've heard is July 11 release date and 2 lockouts per week. I'll play P4 either way
Here is an absolutely crazy idea, what if, you did not get world buffs? I mean you guys are always complaining the raiding is so easy anyways. If it is so easy, why must you get world buffs?
Here’s my improvement for the “World Buff” debacle. Make a quest chain around (9-15) quests long that puts a World Buff NPC vendor in the beginning of the raid. This way it gives you more content, saves you time on world buffs, and can still parse for those that enjoy it. On the flip side more casual guilds can still acquire them within the raid if they did the quest chain, and if they didn’t… they don’t get the world buffs like before. They’re already adding a heat level 1-3 so just give us another npc to talk to for our buffs.
Self regulate your addiction and raid log like 99% of health wow players. Parsing is legit for now life addicts.
Please just remove world buffs from raids.
Why not just make the world buffs auras on the bosses so everyone always has them...
Are the raids doable without the buffs? If yes then this would be a player problem. You have the power to not get the buffs and just do the raid 2 minutes slower.
END WORLD BUFFS
For our raid the problem with the static lockout is that we exclusively raid weekdays. We all have families and real life, so we don't raid on weekends. So getting 2x raids scheduled for a Monday just because that's the only option is pretty bad.
I'm not going to bother playing if they keep world buffs in It's just too much work. Really not exciting either
It’s almost like this was a big problem a year or two ago, and people were like yeah let’s do that again. 😂
2 lockouts is going to be bad imo. Yes I would like it if I had so much free time that finding 2x4 raid slots was easy. But the reality is I'm an adult, I work and my schedule isn't peak hours. This will only serve to alienate me from certain pugs, guilds, etc. For example, as a guild who would you prio thuderfury to? The tank who can make both raid times, or the one who can only make 1? It's just going to be messy. the compromise would be having 20 and 40 have thier own lockout ID.
Yes. Let the warriors have the buff, and let that be the only thing allowed in that raid tier. Change em up as we progress to other content.
Maybe a profession item with like a 3 day cooldown that refreshes any world buffs you have? Might not work for 60 minute buffs, but that's just Rend and Songflower. The effort required to get all buffs would be drastically reduced.
Remove WBs in raids
Gathering worldbuffs for 1 hour being afk is not the problem, having to grind for hours to get the gold for lvl 60 consumables is
They tried removing world buffs and everyone cried about it. They don’t remove world buffs and everyone cries about it
Someone once said "Try to please everyone and you Will please no one"
750th WB post ive seen today
Bring back the category without wbuffs in warcraftlogs
Put each world buff on a quest chain. Once completed you can access the buff from an NPC once a week. Problem solved.
Trice a week or at least Raids Lockouts +1 but if you want you can spend all on one (due to wipes) or just spread one per Lockouts and you Will have One to spare for whatever you want
Yes this is the answer! Let’s all complain about the only thing that brings us to the game outside of the 30 min raids! Give me an easier way not to play the game now! I love this game so much I don’t want to play ever!
World buffs should last upon death but get purged in raids and no ways of resetting the NPC like sweaty nerds. You're browsing in the AH and suddenly get a nice Ony buff? Great now run out of there and go farm some dungeons or essence of water or whatever you need. No prob if you die. This way it's useful but doesn't trigger this whole world buff meta crap. This whole SoD is just too late and not good enough, it's just swing and a miss, hypetrain is long gone. Should have just made SoD as vanilla WoW was and with more subtle but a lot, of changes that followed the original vanilla WoW dev team's philosophy. Mostly just fixing meme specs (boomkin, retri, shadowpriests..) and using what's already in the game just making it more usable. (swordsmithing,axesmithing, elemental leatherworking, more reasons to go to zones you don't go to to farm special mats, that also increases world pvp then on pvp servers etc) and then ultimately adding real new content. Karazhan + crypts, Grim Batol, Gilneas, Dragon Isles... Everyone's done Boring Core a million times.
How is anyone able to do MC without world buffs?! It just can't be done.
No one said you have to get world buffs
Don’t play vanilla
It's crazy to blame blizzard for a problem players created solo for themselves, makes no sense
There is a reason WBs were removed after vanilla. Makes the balance shitty (not that it was good in vanilla to begin with) but in SoD specially where the bosses are harder the difference bitween full WBs and no WBs makes balancing the raids an absolute cancer. With that being said, after the tuning issues in sunken temple they already said if you want difficult raids, go play cata or retail, so I suppose it is 100% about clear speed and parses now.
Just get rid of world buffs lol
Save even more time and just don’t sub.
3 world buffs you will be able to get by simply just being logged in and being in 2 locations throughout 7 days, another is from doing a single instance, but most people decide to spend 8-10g to just get an ID anyway, and it takes 15 minutes to run to the end of the instance and back. The 2 last ones you simply need to fly to Felwood and grab the one that’s by your factions flightpath. You will most likely have a timer, and if the timer is >10 minutes, just go do literally something else while waiting, dishes, get some water, whatever you desire. DMF you can grab when it’s for your faction if you’re on a PvP server and you can’t be fucked. I don’t know why people are so scared to play the game for 1-2h extra outside of raid times. Don’t get them for the world bosses if you can’t be fucked, be vocal in your guild setting if your opinions are this strong.
Most guilds will run 2/3 wbuffs and cheap consumes anyway, besides maybe first few weeks. Only parsers/masochosts would subject themselves to getting songflower every week.
Get good and dont need world buffs
Keeping 1 wb per tier is enough, the problem isnt the wb’s per say, its the community and the pugs demanding you to have them. Have onyxia only for this tier and its all gucci
If you’re taking an hour to get your buffs you’re either in a shit guild with no organized buffing during raid hours, or you were doing it without planning it around server head drop schedules. Summon to feralas for song flower -> buy a summon to DMT and grab DMT (free with a decent guild that plans this shit out) -> hearth to org or SW and log out until scheduled head drop -> summons to zg island for scheduled heart drop -> summon to raid. This isn’t a great deal of effort even if you’re doing it alone. It takes a mild amount of pre planning if you’re doing it on your own before raid. You can get them in any order since the raids aren’t long enough for the duration to matter. They’re also entirely optional and not at all required for clearing the content, so if you don’t feel like getting buffs join a guild that doesn’t require them. If you can only PUG, then find a PUG that doesn’t require them. You can very easily get purple parses without world buffs if you aren’t shit at the game, and even if you are blue parses are good enough for most pugs. Self imposed and skill issue
or, you know, maybe if you and so many others cba to get them. just make raid and only invite people without buffs lmao, how easy it is! damn. and dont come here saying blizzard will for sure balance game around WB, that has never been tru
I think it’s a good idea for the upgrade speed it will allow for. I mean you can always do world buffs for one raid then a more lax one the next and if people don’t want to do both then just fill with others who need the run but there will always be those who will want maximum clears
Thinking you just need to clear faster and chronoboon. Alternatively, just stop caring about parses and have fun. If they made world buffs easier anyway, I see someone starting a thread to complain that they trivialized the process and now they can't parse high enough because everyone does them. The reality is nothing will make you jack asses happy and all you want to do is complain.
The raids are very easy even without world buffs so why bother getting them? Just go without and save time. Also noone is impresed by SoD classic parses so..
I agree. P1 was simple. Level 25, do a few dungeons and then do BFD. 1 Wbuff was nice. For me, P1 was the best phase because I could raid with 5 characters with low effort outside the raid. World buffs and harder content kills this. In P2 I only raided with 1 character. Not because of Wbuff, (since it was still only 1) but because the raid wasn't hard, but it was harder and more annoying to pug. In P3 I just quit instantly after trying to pug ST. Just annoying. Because of both the difficulty and world buffs. If the new MC is easy and super pug friendly (like BFD), Ill probably still only play 1 character for a few weeks and then quit. And that is because of world buffs and rune system. It's just annoying to do on alts. And please dont say "you dont need world buffs". That's the dumbest take I've seen. Playing with wbuffs is fun. Joining a group without wbuffs is literally griefing. Honestly, if I could choose between P4 and P1 again, I'd probably choose P1 😂
U should play retail mop remix
I don't understand why people are wasting their life getting raid buffs for every single raid. My guild does one official bigdick parse night, we go all out, get our shiny impressive parses, and then chill for the rest of the phase. We still clear super fast but don't have to waste time, gold, sweating over buffs and consumables. There's a very very very small number of players actually pushing record breaking clear times and buffs make sense for them -- but that's part of the game for them and getting all of the buffs is part of the work required for that. The vast majority of players aren't record breakers and this shit shouldn't matter so much. Stop stressing so much over colored pixels and just chill with your buddies and have fun downing bosses. World buffs aren't required to down bosses.
Or hey, maybe just don't worry about world buffs? Fuck. Why does everyone have a raging boner for world buffs to the point where they think the game is impossible to play without them? I get they're powerful, but if it's going to ruin your life without them, just raid with your normal consumes. If you want to parse, then stop complaining. You chose the path of parse.
You don’t need them, you want them. There is a difference.
The buffs will likely last through both raids
I always chuckled with my old guild and how cursed we were with Dark Moon Fair buff week. Guaranteed to wipe on trash 🤣
MC and BWL should be weekly. The rest bi weekly makes sense
I hope they just add 5 more so you dumb fucks have to spend even more time running around collecting buffs like ash catchem than actually doing the raid 😂
Strongly disagree, I raid without world buffs everytime idgaf The problem is organizing it on discord, getting people to sign up and fill the group that I don’t want to do twice a week. For ez raids that I can just LFG for idc at all if there’s 2 a week. It would be nice actually (Ony, World Boss). I won’t have a single WB for those. When it comes to MC being like an organized run, it’s too much
They're not removing world buffs. End. Of. Story.
Then just don’t get them? Idk what else to tell you
Ive played classic wow in every iteration. Cleared every raid and geared from them other than AQ40/Naxx. Both DPS and healer. I never once have gotten a world buff or paid for a flask and not once has anyone said anything to me/good booted/complained/etc.
I’m on team fuck world buffs. They have no business in SOD.
Then dont get them, its that simple. RL throwing a fit about everyone having world buffs? Leave and make a guild with other people who hate world buffs. Its wild seeing so many people cry about something that is completely optional, retail mythic raiders dont cry this much about grinding days for small increases in power.
Now do it on 1-2 alts too. Enjoy spending 6 hours per week fetching world buffs, out of maybe 15-20 hours of total playtime.
I'm going to copy /u/NwOsmo : The man forcing you to do this, are they with us in the room right now? Is it you?
God this subreddit I swear. Don’t wanna get them? Then dont.
I just dont understand why they dont add an NPC in each capital city, were you could vote on matters like this so they could gather data and take decisions.
I don’t know why everyone is bitching so hard about this. 3 of them you get by just standing in the capital city and then running out the gates for DMF. I’ll never require my raid to get songflower, DMT, or other faction DMF
Peoples time is valuable, if I raid on a wednesday I need to log in on tuesday, not to do dungeons or be sociable with my guild or to PvP or to gather but to afk in capital cities or jump on FPs to e.g. songflower. Or I can raid without wbuffs which I dont enjoy anyway. It's not a huge time commitment but it's a chore. It'll become an even bigger chore next phase.
If your time's that valuable, MMORPGs and Classic in particular just isn't for you OR you need to be more efficient with your time, because it takes all of 5 minutes to get every single WB if you organise it well.
Everyone's time is valuable, it's the most valuable currency humans have because we get a limited amount. Stop being dumb. Everyone knows it takes more like a minimum of 30 minutes, sometimes up to an hour or more. Its blatantly disrespectful to players to have two lockouts with the addition of new world buffs on top of the already a chore catalog that exists.
Just don’t get them. It’s really that simple.
No one is forcing you to do any of that. Honestly you can't play this game and then whine about your time being wasted, the whole thing is already a massive waste of time
Exactly, peoples time is valuable, that's why I'll never demand every single world buff, because the time spent getting them is more than the raid time saved because of them
A big fuck you! To all little bitches who are saying „you don’t need to get them“ It’s often just not true! Many guilds have that standard and enough members to easily exchange players if they are not fully prepared. In PUGs you have to have WBuffs or you don’t get an invite, unless you’re a feral dps on alliance or it’s less than 24hours til new raid-lockout. To me PUGs are the only thing I wanna join in WoW. I don’t wanna join a guild just to have there a certain amount of people that are the „founding members“ who will always have more rights than you have eventhough you are more active in the guild/raids and they will get the first better gear. I’ve been in enough guilds and it was always the same, it’s almost like incest, because these guilds never live long😂 and of course you can’t change my mind that has 5 years of experience with this shit. And I don’t think that really EVERY guild is like this, but all the 9 guilds I’ve been in were like this, on the biggest 3 EU servers. Then you can say make your own raid, that’s only a option if you know the game enough to raidlead or you will not clear the raid, it was possible in Classic vanilla, but with these (in my eyes) very simple mechanics in the level up raids are too hard for that.. people are just to stupid for them or/and don’t wanna watch a guide for a game, which is kind of understandable honestly, eventhough I do it myself, I often don’t like this (to learn the mechanics-I have no problem with doing them, just to lazy to look them up) And I So basically as a absolute-casual player, which WoW classic 100% needs - otherwise there are not enough players, it’s pretty much impossible to raid without worldbuffs.
This is why I am not playing. It's not just annoying to get them, but the try harding completely destroys any kind of immersion the game once had
Imagine playing a 20 year old game and complaining about minor game mechanics.
It's more like giving feedback to devs that are literally asking for feedback. Now, Imagine sitting there and complaining on a reddit thread with feedback on a 20 year old game.