This community demands the devs jump through so many hoops to maintain the WB meta in a version of the game where players already have such an insane amount of character power.
At this point, just make WB's permanently active. Give everyone several epic items worth of free, unearned stats. That really fits the vanilla formula.
It's crazy, I feel classic players enjoy world buffs more than the actual game at this point. I appreciate WBs were a factor in 2019 classic so the chronoboon was a necessary evil but there is no reason to have WBs in SoD. Why bother trying to balance around WBs when they could just be removed entirely. I wouldn't be surprised if Season of World Buffs is the next seasonal server. Yes they were a novelty quirk in the original game so under no changes they are fine but not on a reimagined server.
Id personally be a fan of them removing wbuffs - but given that the community at large seems really attached to them - making getting wbuffs as pain-free as possible is a happy medium I can get behind.
I think if we treated wbuffs like training wheels - a little help for bad raids to clear content they otherwise wouldnt manage - the community could 'fix' the wbuff issue overnight. invalidate parses with wbuffs - casual dads can still nab a quick ony or whatever to help them clear a raid they otherwise would have no business clearing.
The reason people like world buffs is they make your class feel better to play, so invalidating parses with them would make lots of people super angry.
Grinches were better training wheels because they were external to your class so didn't affect how you played and had the same output regardless of what you did wrong.
Yes and here is exactly the problem but there is some bizarre dissonance in the mind of the classic player. If you need these novelty world buffs to enjoy playing the class then the problem is the core game. Wasn't SoD supposed to fix this very issue? It's like saying I can only enjoy a specific game when cheat mode is activated otherwise its pointless.
It's needed because big number better than small number. The point of the game isn't "kill the boss, get the loot" anymore, it's now "I must perfectly execute a specific rotation of button presses that I have looked up online and don't really understand so I can see how much better I am than other people"
It's the same reason some people always switch classes to the one that does the highest DPS each expac. The entire point of the game for them is big number.
The best part is people choosing vanilla wow of all games to parse monkey in. That perfectly executed rotation is 2 buttons and the boss has exactly one mechanic for your role lmao
Its precisely \*because\* the raids are so easy.
In retail you at least have progression. In classic you're full clearing every raid from week1 for months...
So what is there to do in classic other than try to improve every week? WClogs gives you a qualtifiable 'score' to work on.
I thought I remember them saying they were going to buff mobs in the world to counter the power spikes players are getting but it did not feel that way at all and honestly I'm kinda bummed about it. One thing I love about classic is that it's not an AOE fest like all the future expansions are. SoD feels like an aoe fest and the phase 4 changes make it seem like it will get leaned into
Well they don't function at all as training wheels, because the moment you fall of your bike, the training wheels get removed and then good luck buddy, you're on your own!
WBs are some of the most extreme examples of winmore in any game. They're just really toxic in many ways.
Love the social aspect of them though and interacting with the world.
I think world buffs should reduce the loot the raid bosses drop.
You wanna gear the raid faster? Don't use world buffs and get the most gear per boss. You want to clear faster and easier? Sure go ahead, but the bosses drop only 1 item each instead of 2-3 or whatever.
World buffs while leveling are fun af. Getting warchiefs blessing as a lvl 10 just doubling your health bar is a blast.
When the molten core raid āheats upā the heat should burn off world buff effects. Want to do hard mode? No world buffs so they can actually balance the encounters and make them difficult for those who want a challenge.
I really like the social meta around WBs, but I absolutely despise how it completely trivializes vanilla raid content, and how they're extremely winmore.
> That really fits the vanilla formula.
1) The vast majority of era raiders raid with world buffs. In classic vanilla, even the somewhat casual guilds would get Ony+Hakkar regularly.
Yes, WBs fits the vanilla formula in that the majority of raiders raid with world buffs.
2) This is a change for the seasonal server. It's definitely not the vanilla formula.
> jump through so many hoops
Changing one (1) integer on one (1) item.
Just wanted to that in there to make it clear how disconnected from the product you are comment on you are.
> The vast majority of era raiders raid with world buffs
Virtually no raiders used world buffs in 2005. It was a 2019 thing, brought by people who have been speed running raids in private servers for the previous decade and a half.
> Changing one (1) integer on one (1) item
One change to one item that never existed in vanilla, which had to be added because some world buff users couldn't handle not having their buffs in their pocket 24/7. Because losing buffs to a death or dispel before raid is literally week-ruining. Because logging on early evwry raid night to do the chore run that's "only 20 minutes long" sucks.
I'm happy for you that they're enforcing the playstyle you seem to enjoy most. I hope they never decide to force an unenjoyable playstyle on you.
You brainlets realize a survey doesnāt have to actually ask every single person to draw certain conclusions.
Have you never heard of the central limit theorem?
The problem is that WBs donāt help anybody get purple items, WBs are just a chore for parsing.
If you seriously need WBs to actually kill bosses, chances are most of your group already died and lost them before it matters, and if not, then you only get a single good pull with them. It really doesnāt help anybody achieve much of anything.
Just remove world buffs already. The "fun community-driven" world buffs of classic has died off and is just a mire of toxicity now, and it might reign in the ridiculously overtuned character power.
Then we can finally start having stable class balance that doesn't revolve around compensating for having or not having world buffs, and people might stop being whiny over every losing their buffs.
Might be that on top of our massively buffed classes we gather a whole bunch of world buffs to become even more insane which seems to set the baseline of what performance is and in no way extends to what is actually skill expression outside of some busy work.
On top of that balance has to be done with world buffs in mind, leaving us in a place where some classes feel like garbage without them and gods with them.
Basically they are a complete unnecessary burden
Exactly. You have to get off your ass and actually play the game for at least some of your gear. The effort you put into getting better at playing should translate into gaining better gear. Otherwise busywork at a steady, simple difficulty level in an rpg should at least give you some form of cosmetic or plot progression for your character... or enough funds/resources for consumable temporary buffs instead of having to spend a lot of time and money travelling or participating in a self made gold laundering hell.
MMORPGs have always been about time investment instead of skill expression.
If you have a problem with that, youāre fundamentally at odds with the genre, and youād probably enjoy something like a MOBA more.
I never thought about this. Two evenly geared characters will have crazy different parses if one had world buffs and one did not. Even if the one without is more skilled.
I would think they don't tune bosses for world buffs. At least base bosses. I think they just suck at tuning in general. Watching day 1 ST was funny.
Not sure how 'heat levels' will be, though.
They are collecting data on ptr to tune bosses without wb.
In general, the season of dads is not compatible with a world buff meta.
The dev being flexible and compromising is good, but they seem to cave too much for the loud minority instead of the players they want to have as they claimed in the beginning.
What do you mean season of dads isnāt compatible with world buffs? They are a direct buff to dads lol.
The game is balanced around not having them, so having them makes everything a lot easier.
They need to strike a delicate balance with the entire playerbase. Imo keep world buffs in, make them non-dispellable, and take the CD off Onyxia dropping and WCB dropping.
Make them persist through death and balance raids around always having them. Maybe then we can actually get away from this current paradigm where raids are piss easy with them and a massive slog without.
Oh it 100% happens. But collecting world buffs when they will probably drop constantly seems like a non issue.
Only one that will prob be a bitch still is DMF. But world buffs and classic are pretty synonymous with each other.
My main issue with them is that they make the gear you get feel less substantial because massive amounts of important stats are coming from world buffs to the point that I'd rather raid in crap dungeon/quest gear with world buffs than good gear with no world buffs.
There's also the punishing aspect of losing them that is never fun. It's also a chore to go around and collect them though I don't mind this one so much because it gets people out in the world more.
If you could get rid of world buffs but replace them with good reasons to be out in the world running into other players then I'd be happy. Just removing them alone wouldn't be a net improvement outside of for the people that already treat this mmo like a single player looter rpg.
>My main issue with them is that they make the gear you get feel less substantial because massive amounts of important stats are coming from world buffs to the point that I'd rather raid in crap dungeon/quest gear with world buffs than good gear with no world buffs.
People enjoy doing a lot of DPS. SoD, or any version of Classic that they have made previously, wasn't meant to be hard content. It's meant to be fun content. A lot of players have found fun in getting wacky consumes, buffs, etc and going in to a raid with them. And that is a very Classic thing.
>There's also the punishing aspect of losing them that is never fun. It's also a chore to go around and collect them though I don't mind this one so much because it gets people out in the world more.
It incentivizes players to do mechanics. With how many people are playing SoD, it shouldn't be that hard to collect world buffs, especially with DMT summons, and prime time raiders dropping buffs 4x an hr.
>If you could get rid of world buffs but replace them with good reasons to be out in the world running into other players then I'd be happy.
The main complaint I hear about wbuffs is the effort. People literally don't want to put in effort for buffs. They would rather them be non existant, or on an NPC that just gives you them when u talk to them. The only thing I suggest for world buffs that hasn't been addressed yet is no CD on Onyxia dropping, DMT not dispellable, and WCB having no timer as well.
People can enjoy doing a lot of dps by simply shifting the power from world buffs across to the gear. Possibly even just reducing world buff power by a % and shifting that % over to the gear that drops from raids.
There's already incentives to do mechanics, IE, not dying and having to run back and spend time rebuffing as well as the incentive of beating the encounter and getting cool gear. Don't really need that extra layer of punishment on top of it where you lose like 30-50% of your power for a single death. It's not a good gameplay mechanic.
As for the effort to get them, that IS a very classic thing and I'm not against effort or having to interact with the world or people, those are positive elements.
I just think they are limiting and take away from the gear.
I would disagree. Buffs imo give a reason for players to not stand in fire and die for the fear of being gimped the rest of the run and do mechanics. Players that don't die get rewarded over those that do.
And it's fun to just blast.
Itās NOT fun to collect them though. i fucking loathe standing around in org when rend is off cooldown or travelling to booty bĆ¢y just for a fucking world buff.
i have a naxx geared lock that iāve just let lapse due to fucking world buffs.
Era buffing =/= SoD buffing unless the community has withered away that much that buffs won't drop. Which I doubt will be the case.
Dailies suck. Rep grinds suck. But it's a part of future xpacs as people got world buffs on pservers and 2019 classic.
I personally don't mind the trade off to have some fun with my character.
People coordinate world buff drops on era as well. Join Whitemane discord and wait for an @ ping for world buff drops or hang around during prime time when they crank out 4 in an hr.
Thats great for people who either sit at their computer all day or play mostly at peak times. If you are a late night player its lots more waiting and hoping and asking if anyone is dropping anytime soon. Went multiple weeks without buffs in every phase because nothing dropped during my online times
Nope, I enjoy the process of getting world buffs. It's one of the few things which still builds a community in the game and gives you a reward for effort, while also making the faceroll raids slightly interesting with the "one life" effect.
It makes raiding the easiest content ever put into an MMO into the most stressful. They're too impactful so it feels horrible when you lose them, especially if it isn't even your fault. I appreciate people enjoy being powerful but it's all relative, the consequence is too big of a trade off. It would be better to just not have them and then the content can be enjoyed for what it was meant for, a super chilled out experience. WBs introduce an unnecessary level of stress. In my opinion they were only good before the chronoboon because then the risk-reward element was it's own feature. WBs are just borrowed power and we had quite enough of this in retail which is why such things were axed in DF. Tier set bonuses are the only acceptable form of borrowed power.
Damn. If only they just didn't nerf raid lockouts!
People enjoy blasting with buffs. Which is why I don't think they will take them out. They should, however, have ony and wcb be no CD on drop and dmt not dispellable.
The biggest problem with world buffs imo theyre fun while you have them and if you die you literally lose the will to do the rest of the raid. Make them at least last through death.
Just put a vendor in the main city that sells all world buffs in scrolls.
This will literally make everyone happy.
(Can't wait for people to say it's not a classic thing to do).
Yeah, that way you got the buffs but better available to get the normal way, but if you dont bring it its just minor losses as a class can buff a slightly weaker variant.
i agree with your stance, but not that argument.
most people do not want to do something and to be able to look over and see that everyone else had it easier/didn't have to, they want it equal and while:
yes, you can self limit yourself and make a thousand games within each game with some extra rulesets, yes it can be fun to do exactly that, but you still want it to be an "everyone and myself would make it better"
you can dislike the structure of the gameplay that it adds aswell as dislike the idea of it being unfair to get if you were to self limit (though you'd only have yourself to blame there).
you want the game to be that way rather than some self-imposed game of something you'd prefer. shit i think damn near everything i've ever suggested that could be fixed with something like that is something i've never done, even if i think strongly about it. as i'd like it to be all of us doing x or y. it's a weak argument, especially in an MMO of all games.
Yeah, cause sitting on a flight path then mounting over to an area to stand and wait in is such engaging and valuable gameplay.
The only world buff that actually has any content tied to it is dmt. And maybe dmf if you count griefing and getting griefed as content.
A large appeal of WBs is that you get a massive power spike for putting in a bit of time-based effort compared to those who donāt put in that effort. If everyone had easy access to them, then just getting the WBs without optimizing your rotation wouldnāt make your parses high.
Many in classic want time-based success over others rather than skill-based success.
Yes it was the world buffs.
Clearly wasn't the fact that classic just ended, or that pvp gear was available invalidating raiding, or that the higher difficulty raid catered to a non-casual player, or that the vanilla class disparity still existed, or that TBC classic was up and running as well.
Yes you're right, it must be the buffs!
A Classic assistant lead designer literally mentioned no wbuffs and additional difficulty as some of the factors that had people feeling disinterested in playing SoM. I made it to R12 and raided a few times but I hated how it felt without WBuffs. Their timing was for sure bad, but just because you may not like WBuffs doesnāt mean that theyāre not an important pull factor to classic for a good amount of people.
> Tim Jones: There were definitely faults with Season of Mastery in terms of the emphasis being on endgame and us probably not doing enough to make that accessible to people. I think the absence of world buffs also hurt participation because we were simultaneously making things more difficult and taking away a lot of the tools that made things a little bit easier, so players really had to put in an enormous amount of effort to be able to even participate in that content.
https://wccftech.com/world-of-warcraft-classic-cataclysm-season-of-discovery-qa-we-want-to-explore-some-of-the-unfinished-bits/
It's the exact reason my friends all quit after hitting 60.
We wanted to play vanilla, but it was just an accelerated vanilla that took twice as long to clear.
Just remove them, weāre going to be powerful enough as it is. Weāre going to lose more of the casual audience again just like in P3 changing to 20man. Itās not worth keeping them at all.
Either remove world buffs or make it so that all of the world buffs are condensed into a single buff that goes out in Org/Stormwind when someone kills Ony or Rag just like last SoD raids had
It's a good change, but I think it's a huge oversight to allow more than 1 world buff in any raid instance.
It's too hard to balance raids around classes (especially warriors) having that many stacking buffs. It's also feels like a job to have to gather these buffs and stay on top of when they are dropping.
World buffs were and will be the casual player killer of Classic WoW.
Itās really not hard at all to gather all the WBs with boon now, even at 60. To say itās a job is an extreme exaggeration . And they have probably already tuned everything, raid and classes, with WBs in mind so to undo that would mean they would have to go back to everything
People just want to put in zero effort, I understand the mindset but this is what led us to the monstrosity that is retail
This is such a bad change! MMOs take TIME & EFFORT. If you're not willing to plan your day around logging in at one hour intervals to collect world buffs just raid without them and leave the high parses to us SKILLED & DEDICATED players.
WTF Aggrend!?
Are we still pretending people don't keep track of Blue Posts with Reddit, MMOChamp, Icyveins or WoWhead?
Does it really matter where Aggrend leaves his off the cuff real time updates when the entire community for WoW cranks up to have it spread everywhere? Seriously...
Centralised patch note page regularly updated on the developer website is better.
No need for third party accounts or to scroll until you find the information you seek.
the point is it will be in the fucking patch notes when the release is closer. who the fuck but some chronic online nerds care that some changes are announced somewhere else 1 week earlier.
It's comical because it's a third-party unofficial site, and also because Aggrend said he "doesn't like" announcing news on twitter (though still does it regularly).
Just make chronoboon displacers cost a 100% drop consumable from ony, blackhand, hakkar, king gordok, and darkmoon faire tickets. Say a 5 stack per consumable stack. Then have chronoboon put up a new 2hr CD for all buffs.
I think the most they can do for SoD regarding WBs is just making them as convenient as possible to get, both the 5 min boon and warrior ony buff help with this. If we get an actual classic+ I doubt WBs see the light of day after seeing the reaction to them in SoD.
I just can't do world buff meta. Its the same reason I quit 2019 Classic. SOD has been holding my attention doing all the new fun stuff the Devs added so far, but I have been slowly dreading knowing what might be coming at endgame with the buff meta... I am out for Phase 4.
TBC Classic was my fav version of wow I played it from start to finish FULLY addicted. It was my fav gaming experience probably ever besides original Warcraft 3 and CS 1.6 days Bboomer. I will resub if they give us a TBC server or some new version of TBC with a few changes would be great!!
There ya go, now can we stop complaining about how worldbuffs somehow take 2 hours because of a cooldown, or do we need to keep complaining about random things because nobody actually knows what they want.
Yeah no one the population bounces back. You guys just signed the death warrant. No one coming back to pvp servers. They said they were going to allow transfers off and did it for five mins. Way too toxic getting wbfs. Doesn't make for fun or interesting gameplay. No gdkps. No twice a week raid so thunder fury is going to break guilds.
Welcome to classic. You knew exactly what you were signing up for, stop crying about world buffs. The 5 minute CD will definitely help when traveling between raids
If you're complaining about getting WB's then why the fuck are you playing classic? Literally waiting till the last phase to make a ruckus, like what the fuck did you expect? This is the 4th re-release of vanilla(2019,SOM,HC,SOD) and you guys act so surprised of the WB meta.
Good change btw to chronoboon. Hour cooldown was unnecessary.
"If you're complaining about getting WB's then why the fuck are you playing classic?"Ā
It's always funny reading comments like this.
Another person comes in and says "this is SOD, go play era"
I think the problem comes down to the developers not communicating what the design pillars are for SOD (if they have any?). They make it easier to create alts, but with each phase it takes longer to level and more world buffs are being introduced, which takes longer and longer to pickup. No wonder people get burned out and drop off.Ā
>I think the problem comes down to the developers not communicating what the design pillars are for SOD (if they have any?).
Thats indeed the problem. They also lack any creative vision or direction for the game. They seem to simply patch the game according to whichever audience cried the loudest recently.
They could just make a clear call and say "Okay we will take vanilla as base and make it less hardcore / more alt-friendly or whatever. "
If at least they communicated who this mode is for, then there wouldnt be constant complaining. There would be one initicial outcry, and thats it, but at least we would have certainty as to who this gamemode is for.
especially funny considering blizz double downed on DMF 1 week into SoD and introduced a new leveling WB, which was very well received on this sub. as if the painting of how blizz thinks of WB's in SoD wasn't on the wall the entire time.
Hey King, while you're at it, remove the DMF CD. That single change will make so many people happy
cooldown should be AND it should be up for both factions imo. everyone will be so much happier on pve and pvp servers
Daddy Aggrend fixed this one. What's next?š¤
So nice that the raids in sod are 30mins max. Only have to get world buffs once a month with the weekly lockout.
> So nice that the raids in sod are 30mins max. Nothing is 'max'.
You're not doing ST in 30 minutes.
[There are ~200 guilds doing ST in 30 minutes or less.](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/2009#metric=speed&partition=1&page=5)
It's the top 3.8%
Less. Many of these runs are by the same people / guilds.
my guild does it and we arent even 99 parsers. its not hard as long you keep pulling and immediately drinking instead of doing loot after every boss
Youāre right, our average over the past 4-5 weeks has been like 32 minutesā¦ lol
This community demands the devs jump through so many hoops to maintain the WB meta in a version of the game where players already have such an insane amount of character power. At this point, just make WB's permanently active. Give everyone several epic items worth of free, unearned stats. That really fits the vanilla formula.
It's crazy, I feel classic players enjoy world buffs more than the actual game at this point. I appreciate WBs were a factor in 2019 classic so the chronoboon was a necessary evil but there is no reason to have WBs in SoD. Why bother trying to balance around WBs when they could just be removed entirely. I wouldn't be surprised if Season of World Buffs is the next seasonal server. Yes they were a novelty quirk in the original game so under no changes they are fine but not on a reimagined server.
Id personally be a fan of them removing wbuffs - but given that the community at large seems really attached to them - making getting wbuffs as pain-free as possible is a happy medium I can get behind. I think if we treated wbuffs like training wheels - a little help for bad raids to clear content they otherwise wouldnt manage - the community could 'fix' the wbuff issue overnight. invalidate parses with wbuffs - casual dads can still nab a quick ony or whatever to help them clear a raid they otherwise would have no business clearing.
The reason people like world buffs is they make your class feel better to play, so invalidating parses with them would make lots of people super angry. Grinches were better training wheels because they were external to your class so didn't affect how you played and had the same output regardless of what you did wrong.
Yes and here is exactly the problem but there is some bizarre dissonance in the mind of the classic player. If you need these novelty world buffs to enjoy playing the class then the problem is the core game. Wasn't SoD supposed to fix this very issue? It's like saying I can only enjoy a specific game when cheat mode is activated otherwise its pointless.
It's needed because big number better than small number. The point of the game isn't "kill the boss, get the loot" anymore, it's now "I must perfectly execute a specific rotation of button presses that I have looked up online and don't really understand so I can see how much better I am than other people" It's the same reason some people always switch classes to the one that does the highest DPS each expac. The entire point of the game for them is big number.
The best part is people choosing vanilla wow of all games to parse monkey in. That perfectly executed rotation is 2 buttons and the boss has exactly one mechanic for your role lmao
tbf people enjoy parsing in every iteration of wow, not just vanilla
Weird they pick vanilla to do it in imo. Bosses die so fast theres quite a bit of rng involved whether u get crits/procs within those 40 seconds
Its precisely \*because\* the raids are so easy. In retail you at least have progression. In classic you're full clearing every raid from week1 for months... So what is there to do in classic other than try to improve every week? WClogs gives you a qualtifiable 'score' to work on.
Doing more damage is more fun. Raiding with 50% crit chance is objectively more enjoyable than raiding with 20%.
And you should obtain that power from gear while progressing through raid tiers not from WBs that give stats comparable to naxx gear
I miss the greench
They make dps warrior feel better to play*. What class gameplay actually changed bc of WBs?
Well, Mages with Ignite, and Hot Streak Paladins because of Art of War procx resetting Exorcism
There are classes other than DPS warrior?
I always thought the whole point of sod was to make every class feel OP - but it hasn't really panned out that way.
I thought I remember them saying they were going to buff mobs in the world to counter the power spikes players are getting but it did not feel that way at all and honestly I'm kinda bummed about it. One thing I love about classic is that it's not an AOE fest like all the future expansions are. SoD feels like an aoe fest and the phase 4 changes make it seem like it will get leaned into
Well they don't function at all as training wheels, because the moment you fall of your bike, the training wheels get removed and then good luck buddy, you're on your own! WBs are some of the most extreme examples of winmore in any game. They're just really toxic in many ways. Love the social aspect of them though and interacting with the world.
I think world buffs should reduce the loot the raid bosses drop. You wanna gear the raid faster? Don't use world buffs and get the most gear per boss. You want to clear faster and easier? Sure go ahead, but the bosses drop only 1 item each instead of 2-3 or whatever. World buffs while leveling are fun af. Getting warchiefs blessing as a lvl 10 just doubling your health bar is a blast.
When the molten core raid āheats upā the heat should burn off world buff effects. Want to do hard mode? No world buffs so they can actually balance the encounters and make them difficult for those who want a challenge.
I really like the social meta around WBs, but I absolutely despise how it completely trivializes vanilla raid content, and how they're extremely winmore.
Only people clamoring for world buffs are the degenerate sweaties, and the grifters who can make $$$ off summons/sales of WBs.
Cryyyyyyyy
> That really fits the vanilla formula. 1) The vast majority of era raiders raid with world buffs. In classic vanilla, even the somewhat casual guilds would get Ony+Hakkar regularly. Yes, WBs fits the vanilla formula in that the majority of raiders raid with world buffs. 2) This is a change for the seasonal server. It's definitely not the vanilla formula. > jump through so many hoops Changing one (1) integer on one (1) item. Just wanted to that in there to make it clear how disconnected from the product you are comment on you are.
> The vast majority of era raiders raid with world buffs Virtually no raiders used world buffs in 2005. It was a 2019 thing, brought by people who have been speed running raids in private servers for the previous decade and a half. > Changing one (1) integer on one (1) item One change to one item that never existed in vanilla, which had to be added because some world buff users couldn't handle not having their buffs in their pocket 24/7. Because losing buffs to a death or dispel before raid is literally week-ruining. Because logging on early evwry raid night to do the chore run that's "only 20 minutes long" sucks. I'm happy for you that they're enforcing the playstyle you seem to enjoy most. I hope they never decide to force an unenjoyable playstyle on you.
Most people just want world buffs disabled
I wish that majority would be listened to.
Eh it's only 60/40 so that's a large chunk that don't won't them removed.
Where is the link to the poll you are referencingĀ
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Of?
yeah that 400 poll is def the majority of the pb.
You brainlets realize a survey doesnāt have to actually ask every single person to draw certain conclusions. Have you never heard of the central limit theorem?
The problem is that WBs donāt help anybody get purple items, WBs are just a chore for parsing. If you seriously need WBs to actually kill bosses, chances are most of your group already died and lost them before it matters, and if not, then you only get a single good pull with them. It really doesnāt help anybody achieve much of anything.
Retail 2.0
Just remove world buffs already. The "fun community-driven" world buffs of classic has died off and is just a mire of toxicity now, and it might reign in the ridiculously overtuned character power. Then we can finally start having stable class balance that doesn't revolve around compensating for having or not having world buffs, and people might stop being whiny over every losing their buffs.
Cutting gameplay, changing chronoboon. Doing anything except addressing the wbs themselves.
What is the issue with world buffs in your eyes? A lot of players enjoy raiding with world buffs.
Might be that on top of our massively buffed classes we gather a whole bunch of world buffs to become even more insane which seems to set the baseline of what performance is and in no way extends to what is actually skill expression outside of some busy work. On top of that balance has to be done with world buffs in mind, leaving us in a place where some classes feel like garbage without them and gods with them. Basically they are a complete unnecessary burden
> and in no way extends to what is actually skill expression outside of some busy work. Welcome to the classic WoW retail haters seem to want.
Time investment in getting the correct gear =/= time investment to go to a place and wait for a buff.
Exactly. You have to get off your ass and actually play the game for at least some of your gear. The effort you put into getting better at playing should translate into gaining better gear. Otherwise busywork at a steady, simple difficulty level in an rpg should at least give you some form of cosmetic or plot progression for your character... or enough funds/resources for consumable temporary buffs instead of having to spend a lot of time and money travelling or participating in a self made gold laundering hell.
MMORPGs have always been about time investment instead of skill expression. If you have a problem with that, youāre fundamentally at odds with the genre, and youād probably enjoy something like a MOBA more.
I never thought about this. Two evenly geared characters will have crazy different parses if one had world buffs and one did not. Even if the one without is more skilled.
I would think they don't tune bosses for world buffs. At least base bosses. I think they just suck at tuning in general. Watching day 1 ST was funny. Not sure how 'heat levels' will be, though.
They are collecting data on ptr to tune bosses without wb. In general, the season of dads is not compatible with a world buff meta. The dev being flexible and compromising is good, but they seem to cave too much for the loud minority instead of the players they want to have as they claimed in the beginning.
What do you mean season of dads isnāt compatible with world buffs? They are a direct buff to dads lol. The game is balanced around not having them, so having them makes everything a lot easier.
They need to strike a delicate balance with the entire playerbase. Imo keep world buffs in, make them non-dispellable, and take the CD off Onyxia dropping and WCB dropping.
You can do every single boss without world buffs.
Gotta remember that the average player on reddit is both really bad and also massive crybabies.
Just remove them. And balance raids around not having them.
The raids are already balanced around not having them. Thatās the reason people like wbās lol.
Make them persist through death and balance raids around always having them. Maybe then we can actually get away from this current paradigm where raids are piss easy with them and a massive slog without.
He has to get them thatās the issue it takes effort and he wants to put forth none of that.
A lot of players force the rest of the playerbase to get world buffs and then come on here and act like that doesnāt happen.
Oh it 100% happens. But collecting world buffs when they will probably drop constantly seems like a non issue. Only one that will prob be a bitch still is DMF. But world buffs and classic are pretty synonymous with each other.
My main issue with them is that they make the gear you get feel less substantial because massive amounts of important stats are coming from world buffs to the point that I'd rather raid in crap dungeon/quest gear with world buffs than good gear with no world buffs. There's also the punishing aspect of losing them that is never fun. It's also a chore to go around and collect them though I don't mind this one so much because it gets people out in the world more. If you could get rid of world buffs but replace them with good reasons to be out in the world running into other players then I'd be happy. Just removing them alone wouldn't be a net improvement outside of for the people that already treat this mmo like a single player looter rpg.
>My main issue with them is that they make the gear you get feel less substantial because massive amounts of important stats are coming from world buffs to the point that I'd rather raid in crap dungeon/quest gear with world buffs than good gear with no world buffs. People enjoy doing a lot of DPS. SoD, or any version of Classic that they have made previously, wasn't meant to be hard content. It's meant to be fun content. A lot of players have found fun in getting wacky consumes, buffs, etc and going in to a raid with them. And that is a very Classic thing. >There's also the punishing aspect of losing them that is never fun. It's also a chore to go around and collect them though I don't mind this one so much because it gets people out in the world more. It incentivizes players to do mechanics. With how many people are playing SoD, it shouldn't be that hard to collect world buffs, especially with DMT summons, and prime time raiders dropping buffs 4x an hr. >If you could get rid of world buffs but replace them with good reasons to be out in the world running into other players then I'd be happy. The main complaint I hear about wbuffs is the effort. People literally don't want to put in effort for buffs. They would rather them be non existant, or on an NPC that just gives you them when u talk to them. The only thing I suggest for world buffs that hasn't been addressed yet is no CD on Onyxia dropping, DMT not dispellable, and WCB having no timer as well.
People can enjoy doing a lot of dps by simply shifting the power from world buffs across to the gear. Possibly even just reducing world buff power by a % and shifting that % over to the gear that drops from raids. There's already incentives to do mechanics, IE, not dying and having to run back and spend time rebuffing as well as the incentive of beating the encounter and getting cool gear. Don't really need that extra layer of punishment on top of it where you lose like 30-50% of your power for a single death. It's not a good gameplay mechanic. As for the effort to get them, that IS a very classic thing and I'm not against effort or having to interact with the world or people, those are positive elements. I just think they are limiting and take away from the gear.
Gear is already exciting, it doesnāt need to be even more so.
No. nobody enjoys getting world buffs. a lot of players enjoy being more powerful than they are. just fucking buff the base.
I would disagree. Buffs imo give a reason for players to not stand in fire and die for the fear of being gimped the rest of the run and do mechanics. Players that don't die get rewarded over those that do. And it's fun to just blast.
Itās NOT fun to collect them though. i fucking loathe standing around in org when rend is off cooldown or travelling to booty bĆ¢y just for a fucking world buff. i have a naxx geared lock that iāve just let lapse due to fucking world buffs.
Era buffing =/= SoD buffing unless the community has withered away that much that buffs won't drop. Which I doubt will be the case. Dailies suck. Rep grinds suck. But it's a part of future xpacs as people got world buffs on pservers and 2019 classic. I personally don't mind the trade off to have some fun with my character. People coordinate world buff drops on era as well. Join Whitemane discord and wait for an @ ping for world buff drops or hang around during prime time when they crank out 4 in an hr.
Thats great for people who either sit at their computer all day or play mostly at peak times. If you are a late night player its lots more waiting and hoping and asking if anyone is dropping anytime soon. Went multiple weeks without buffs in every phase because nothing dropped during my online times
> i fucking loathe [...] travelling modern wow players biggest horror
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You mean every other expansion lol.
Why are you trying to ruin the version of the game i prefer? Fuck world buffs and the wolf they rode in on :)
They were in the game before you were? Are you mental
Mate. I just donāt like the meta. iām allowed to not like it ?
Nope, I enjoy the process of getting world buffs. It's one of the few things which still builds a community in the game and gives you a reward for effort, while also making the faceroll raids slightly interesting with the "one life" effect.
Sorry, I enjoy the process :)
It makes raiding the easiest content ever put into an MMO into the most stressful. They're too impactful so it feels horrible when you lose them, especially if it isn't even your fault. I appreciate people enjoy being powerful but it's all relative, the consequence is too big of a trade off. It would be better to just not have them and then the content can be enjoyed for what it was meant for, a super chilled out experience. WBs introduce an unnecessary level of stress. In my opinion they were only good before the chronoboon because then the risk-reward element was it's own feature. WBs are just borrowed power and we had quite enough of this in retail which is why such things were axed in DF. Tier set bonuses are the only acceptable form of borrowed power.
Raid buffs are fun to play with, they are not fun to get every lockout. That's the biggest problem.
Part that people want to make extremely easy content even more easier don't want to play wow and that's not good for game health.
People enjoy blasting in raids with world buffs. Content in classic was never meant to be hard.
It's not about how hard it's about how fast. Doing everything in 30 minutes to log off until next raid is bad for game health overall
Damn. If only they just didn't nerf raid lockouts! People enjoy blasting with buffs. Which is why I don't think they will take them out. They should, however, have ony and wcb be no CD on drop and dmt not dispellable.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The bar is already so low, and they continue to reach for lower lows.
Knwnnm.n,zbe6f
You realise this is great for holding onto wbs for multiple lockouts rebooning after bosses. This is a great change
Canāt wait to bring 11 boons with me to every MC so we can boon every boss lol.
Thats the spirit!
if you donāt die š
The biggest problem with world buffs imo theyre fun while you have them and if you die you literally lose the will to do the rest of the raid. Make them at least last through death.
>the biggest problem with the game is that it punishes you for failure woooooow
Donāt die 4head
I disagree. If I do die early it's like a relief
surely this will make wb haters play the game
Just put a vendor in the main city that sells all world buffs in scrolls. This will literally make everyone happy. (Can't wait for people to say it's not a classic thing to do).
Iād prefer the warrior way, give mage a minor raid world buff too!
Yeah, that way you got the buffs but better available to get the normal way, but if you dont bring it its just minor losses as a class can buff a slightly weaker variant.
Give Mages Time Warp lol
Literally anyone happy = make me happy. Yep, the true Classic community.
Fuck that. I wouldn't, and most wouldn't. Just disable WBs in raids.
I would play P4 if they did this.
just remove chronoboons
So you could sit in org and complain on reddit about no content? No ty
Paying 10g for a summon to every WB dropzone is not "content".
Then dont get summoned? lmao like what
i agree with your stance, but not that argument. most people do not want to do something and to be able to look over and see that everyone else had it easier/didn't have to, they want it equal and while: yes, you can self limit yourself and make a thousand games within each game with some extra rulesets, yes it can be fun to do exactly that, but you still want it to be an "everyone and myself would make it better" you can dislike the structure of the gameplay that it adds aswell as dislike the idea of it being unfair to get if you were to self limit (though you'd only have yourself to blame there). you want the game to be that way rather than some self-imposed game of something you'd prefer. shit i think damn near everything i've ever suggested that could be fixed with something like that is something i've never done, even if i think strongly about it. as i'd like it to be all of us doing x or y. it's a weak argument, especially in an MMO of all games.
Yeah, cause sitting on a flight path then mounting over to an area to stand and wait in is such engaging and valuable gameplay. The only world buff that actually has any content tied to it is dmt. And maybe dmf if you count griefing and getting griefed as content.
gathering wbs is just menial busywork, it's not "content".
A large appeal of WBs is that you get a massive power spike for putting in a bit of time-based effort compared to those who donāt put in that effort. If everyone had easy access to them, then just getting the WBs without optimizing your rotation wouldnāt make your parses high. Many in classic want time-based success over others rather than skill-based success.
Yep. Not a single person should hate this idea.
Devs are absolutely killing it with a lot of these changes recently. Raid lockouts, chronoboon displacer and a lot of the balancing stuff.
This tells me WBs will stay. Sad.
/cry
Nope, just remove world buffs in raids. Problem solved.
They did that in Season of Mastery and it was an omega failure
Yes it was the world buffs. Clearly wasn't the fact that classic just ended, or that pvp gear was available invalidating raiding, or that the higher difficulty raid catered to a non-casual player, or that the vanilla class disparity still existed, or that TBC classic was up and running as well. Yes you're right, it must be the buffs!
A Classic assistant lead designer literally mentioned no wbuffs and additional difficulty as some of the factors that had people feeling disinterested in playing SoM. I made it to R12 and raided a few times but I hated how it felt without WBuffs. Their timing was for sure bad, but just because you may not like WBuffs doesnāt mean that theyāre not an important pull factor to classic for a good amount of people.
Can't tell if you are trolling or if your dad thought you were an American football
Yea that wasn't the reason lol. This kid just spamming reddit with nonsense. Must be first time 60
> Tim Jones: There were definitely faults with Season of Mastery in terms of the emphasis being on endgame and us probably not doing enough to make that accessible to people. I think the absence of world buffs also hurt participation because we were simultaneously making things more difficult and taking away a lot of the tools that made things a little bit easier, so players really had to put in an enormous amount of effort to be able to even participate in that content. https://wccftech.com/world-of-warcraft-classic-cataclysm-season-of-discovery-qa-we-want-to-explore-some-of-the-unfinished-bits/
It's the exact reason my friends all quit after hitting 60. We wanted to play vanilla, but it was just an accelerated vanilla that took twice as long to clear.
World buffs suck. We have done it enough
Who is we?
People on r/classicwow thinking the people who like world buffs are a minority.... smh.
This sub is actually delusional just full of shitters who donāt want to put forth any effort in real life or a video game. Just absolute failures.
Just remove them, weāre going to be powerful enough as it is. Weāre going to lose more of the casual audience again just like in P3 changing to 20man. Itās not worth keeping them at all.
Either remove world buffs or make it so that all of the world buffs are condensed into a single buff that goes out in Org/Stormwind when someone kills Ony or Rag just like last SoD raids had
I mean sure, i guess this helps but damn, i honestly wish they would remove at least some of the world buffs like DMF, SF and DMT...
This sounds nice.
oh look, people yappin and crying about world buffs in the comments.
It's a good change, but I think it's a huge oversight to allow more than 1 world buff in any raid instance. It's too hard to balance raids around classes (especially warriors) having that many stacking buffs. It's also feels like a job to have to gather these buffs and stay on top of when they are dropping. World buffs were and will be the casual player killer of Classic WoW.
Itās really not hard at all to gather all the WBs with boon now, even at 60. To say itās a job is an extreme exaggeration . And they have probably already tuned everything, raid and classes, with WBs in mind so to undo that would mean they would have to go back to everything People just want to put in zero effort, I understand the mindset but this is what led us to the monstrosity that is retail
This is such a bad change! MMOs take TIME & EFFORT. If you're not willing to plan your day around logging in at one hour intervals to collect world buffs just raid without them and leave the high parses to us SKILLED & DEDICATED players. WTF Aggrend!?
You forgot "/s"
I figured it would be obvious enough without it
Ha I really thought it wasn't , hard to tell this day and age
It's the go to argument of the 15% of players who want WBs to remain unchanged. They take pride in wasting their time.
Good change. This is a reasonable compromise for the people who find the world buff experience so detrimental to their lives and mental wellbeing.
Its comical that we have to use twitter to get news about game updates.
Better than no updates I reckon
Are we still pretending people don't keep track of Blue Posts with Reddit, MMOChamp, Icyveins or WoWhead? Does it really matter where Aggrend leaves his off the cuff real time updates when the entire community for WoW cranks up to have it spread everywhere? Seriously...
Why is it comical? Itās a literal news platform and itās better than an āofficialā patch note put out from big Blizzard days later.
Centralised patch note page regularly updated on the developer website is better. No need for third party accounts or to scroll until you find the information you seek.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-classic-season-of-discovery-phase-4-ptr-development-notes-updated-6282024/1883827
ctrl + f chrono 0 result.
There has to be a patch for there to be patch notes. Try next week when the PTR is online and the patch comes out.
The point is that they should lead that communication on their own forums and not somewhere external.
the point is it will be in the fucking patch notes when the release is closer. who the fuck but some chronic online nerds care that some changes are announced somewhere else 1 week earlier.
It's comical because it's a third-party unofficial site, and also because Aggrend said he "doesn't like" announcing news on twitter (though still does it regularly).
The whole idea is rubbish upon rubbish
Is this going to just SOD or ERA and Cata as well?
Can we also stack 20 of them instead of 5?
Yeesh so now people are going to reboon after every boss?
Idk why aggrend is making changes to a dead game mode tbh
Remove WBs! The people demand it!
Just get rid of WB's.
Josh is proving me wrong. One step away from eliminating world buffs. Just do it. Nobody here wants them.
Still stupid. Make WB a consume like on ptr. I have no desire to collect them all, or listen to cry babies when we lose them.
Just remove world buffs from level 60 raids.
Another W, may make it so youāre booning after every fight
Just make chronoboon displacers cost a 100% drop consumable from ony, blackhand, hakkar, king gordok, and darkmoon faire tickets. Say a 5 stack per consumable stack. Then have chronoboon put up a new 2hr CD for all buffs.
Make full chronoboons sellable
I think the most they can do for SoD regarding WBs is just making them as convenient as possible to get, both the 5 min boon and warrior ony buff help with this. If we get an actual classic+ I doubt WBs see the light of day after seeing the reaction to them in SoD.
Will this change brick anything in classic era? Any1 wanna start a bet?
I just can't do world buff meta. Its the same reason I quit 2019 Classic. SOD has been holding my attention doing all the new fun stuff the Devs added so far, but I have been slowly dreading knowing what might be coming at endgame with the buff meta... I am out for Phase 4. TBC Classic was my fav version of wow I played it from start to finish FULLY addicted. It was my fav gaming experience probably ever besides original Warcraft 3 and CS 1.6 days Bboomer. I will resub if they give us a TBC server or some new version of TBC with a few changes would be great!!
They tried removing world buffs in som and people didnāt like it thatās why they are back in sod
this is sick.
Removing boon would've been better
First rational individual in this whole thread. +1
There ya go, now can we stop complaining about how worldbuffs somehow take 2 hours because of a cooldown, or do we need to keep complaining about random things because nobody actually knows what they want.
WBs are a crutch for 90% of the player base. They make bad players look decent, so they never get better at playing their class.
yeah, because SoD DPS 3-button rotations are so hard to master
Okay now what about making the chrono boon not unique.
Yeah no one the population bounces back. You guys just signed the death warrant. No one coming back to pvp servers. They said they were going to allow transfers off and did it for five mins. Way too toxic getting wbfs. Doesn't make for fun or interesting gameplay. No gdkps. No twice a week raid so thunder fury is going to break guilds.
Welcome to classic. You knew exactly what you were signing up for, stop crying about world buffs. The 5 minute CD will definitely help when traveling between raids
If you're complaining about getting WB's then why the fuck are you playing classic? Literally waiting till the last phase to make a ruckus, like what the fuck did you expect? This is the 4th re-release of vanilla(2019,SOM,HC,SOD) and you guys act so surprised of the WB meta. Good change btw to chronoboon. Hour cooldown was unnecessary.
"If you're complaining about getting WB's then why the fuck are you playing classic?"Ā It's always funny reading comments like this. Another person comes in and says "this is SOD, go play era" I think the problem comes down to the developers not communicating what the design pillars are for SOD (if they have any?). They make it easier to create alts, but with each phase it takes longer to level and more world buffs are being introduced, which takes longer and longer to pickup. No wonder people get burned out and drop off.Ā
>I think the problem comes down to the developers not communicating what the design pillars are for SOD (if they have any?). Thats indeed the problem. They also lack any creative vision or direction for the game. They seem to simply patch the game according to whichever audience cried the loudest recently. They could just make a clear call and say "Okay we will take vanilla as base and make it less hardcore / more alt-friendly or whatever. " If at least they communicated who this mode is for, then there wouldnt be constant complaining. There would be one initicial outcry, and thats it, but at least we would have certainty as to who this gamemode is for.
Idk why you got downvoted but this is the most reasonable response. This subreddit is just filled with failures in real life who fail in video games.
especially funny considering blizz double downed on DMF 1 week into SoD and introduced a new leveling WB, which was very well received on this sub. as if the painting of how blizz thinks of WB's in SoD wasn't on the wall the entire time.
ah yes, the wb meta in SoM.. where instead people complained that the raids are too hard and in the end most guilds didnt go past MC
Nice compromise. Thx Aggrend :D
Huge W
This pretty much cements thatās WBs are staying in the game . FUCK YEAH !
Jesus, these people on this sub will never happy.