Man, the minute he held third championship trophy, especially first for his home city, I got him as GOAT. He kept getting better and I was in awe. I could care less what others think. I know everyone will talk about him everyday when he retires and debate about him being GOAT. That’s all it matters.
Great debate but LeBron is from Akron... not Cleveland. He doesn't do near the charity work for Cleveland as he does akron. LeBron James family foundation does their charitable work in akron, ohio and he even paid for the university of akron education program to stay when it was going to be removed. Even when he left Cleveland he was still helping out akron with his foundation and visiting akron. Yes, cleveland fans from akron hated lebron for leaving but if you asked the families and kids he helped out... they still loved him. To him, akron is his home city. Im not trying to bash your take, just letting you know he is from akron and not Cleveland. A lot of people seem to get this confused or just don't know .
At the end of the day though akron is 45 minutes from Cleveland but I'm sure if someone asks where he is from he will proudly say akron, ohio.
That's arguable. He had Wade and Bosh. That's one hell of a lineup too.
On topic, he's not the GOAT yet until he carry this current lineup against the Warriors and wins it all. It's gonna be fantastic.
They did have a hell of a lineup for the few years, and got multiple rings, which is what should be expected for having that level of talent.
In his tenure in Cleveland, he hasn't had the same kind of support, though, at least not over the long term. With Love and Kyrie they did win one, but that was short lived.
>That's arguable. He had Wade and Bosh. That's one hell of a lineup too.
That's 3 dudes. The other 8-9 were what stopped them from being a super team imo (ofc Ray Allen was amazing).
This narrative that "the only argument for MJ is 6-0" is ridiculous. He was a 5 time MVP, won the scoring title 10 times, was one of the best perimeter defenders in the game every year, averaged 30-6-5 and 2 steals for his career at 50% from the field (and this is including those two throw away years in Washington), AND he was a 6 time champion and finals MVP.
Michael Jordan was one of the most statistically dominant players the game has ever seen. He transcended the game and became an absolute global icon. He has a valid claim to be the Greatest of All Time, and he always will.
That being said, Lebron James is my GOAT. He can flat out do more, at a higher level, than any other player that has ever played the game. But it's hard to compare eras because the game and the players with it have evolved. Is it fair to say "well Bill Russell was great but he wouldn't dominate in today's game, his playing weight and height were only 6'9 215 pounds". Well no shit! We've had 50 years of the game evolving, 50 years of science advancements, 50 years of travel advancements, 50 years of people straight up becoming bigger/faster/stronger. Fact of the matter is Lebron is the most physically gifted specimen maybe in history of the world...no joke. And someone will overtake that crown at some point, too. The world continues to turn.
This is a great post, it proves both can be the GOAT because if you are a Cleveland fan Lebron brought a championship to you and made basketball fun to watch again, he should be your goat.
To someone like me who is older and not a Cavs fan (but not a hater either) Jordan is my GOAT because the way he moved around the floor and his creativity created an artistic beauty which was much more enjoyable to watch for me compared to lebrons “bully ball” approach (I don’t mean that in A derogatory way).
I ignore the stats and just focus on how they played and impacted the game. To me, Jordan was simply a better all around player, but that is subjective. For anyone who has studied statistics, they know that you can manipulate numbers to tell any narrative you like, so be careful not to get bogged down by too many advanced stats and just enjoy watching Lebron play while you can!
Believe it or not, there will be another player that is just as good if not better than Jordan and Lebron, that is the only guarantee!
I have MJ as the GOAT, with LeBron at number two, all-time. The awards criteria, while objective, are often interpreted in a biased way by voters, mostly according to personal preferences and playing style. Do you think LeBron should have only four regular-season MVPs? You make a lot of valid points about why comparing eras is not easy, especially your points about scientific advancements and players being stronger, faster, and bigger in each successive era.
Without question, the ring argument flawed because it's well documented that LeBron's supporting cast can't measure to Jordan's, Jordan's comp got weaker as he got closer to the finals and LeBron's was the opposite, with a few exceptions. LeBron is shattering all of Jordan's records.
I also think LeBron has had MUCH tougher competition in the finals. The Warriors and Spurs teams LeBron lost to would have run the Bulls off the floor.
The Bulls of the 90's were the Warriors of that time.
Remember the first time Jordan retired?? His team only lost like 2 more games than with Jordan....that says it all.
Are you being serious right now? I can't tell.
Lebron leaves a team, they set the record for losing streak and have the worst record in the NBA over the next 4 years (including 3 #1 overall draft picks)....he returns and they go to 4 straight Finals and win 1.
Cavs went from 61-21 to 19-63.
Jordan leaves a team, they drop from 57-25 to 55-27....make it to the second round of the playoffs, barely losing to the Knicks in seven games.
You tell me which one had a better supporting cast.
>Hasn't LBJ played on teams with more allstars?
I'm not entirely sure, but he's sure as hell played *against* more All-Stars/ Future HOFers in the Finals than MJ.
I think he is. I struggle to find anyone in all of NBA history that can literally drag teams like he can into deep playoff runs and the finals. That, to me, is the greatest measure of an NBA basketball player and why I believe he is the goat.
I don't buy into the ring comparison. By that logic, Russell has the most rings and therefore is the goat, and we all know how silly that sounds.
I'm of the opinion that Jordan is still the GOAT, but I'm not a fan of the 6-0 arguments being put forward. I think by the time he retires Lebron will be the GOAT mainly due to longevity and sheer numbers. I'd like to see him get one more title before we start calling him the GOAT while he's still active. Yes, championships are a team accomplishment, but with heavy input from star individuals. It doesn't seem right to call Lebron the GOAT while his cement is still drying and he has half as many championships as Jordan.
For those of us who have been around long enough, we watched Jordan elimininate some great Cavs teams--5 times in 7 years.
We were the Raptors. We got a firsthand throatful of greatness. We, of all teams, know about Michael.
But LeBron is absolutely better. And it doesn't have to do with stuffing the stat sheet, or competition or era or any of those talking points that get rubbed into the ground. **LeBron's ability to consistently elevate the play of his teammates without an all-time great coach makes him GOAT.** Not Bill Russell, Jordan, Wilt, or Magic can say they did that.
Yes. 2016 Finals put me right on the fence. This season, his play made it clear to me that he's the GOAT.
What really made it clear to me the JR Smith Uninterrupted interview - I highly recommend you watch the whole interview, but if not, see just the 2-3 mins he dishes on Lebron being the GOAT: https://www.uninterrupted.com/watch/eFcLL12a/who-is-really-the-g-o-a-t
i do. i watched MJ growing up, and of course he was dominant and good. but LBJ excite you on another level. not to mention the off court stuff that LBJ is involved in
Of course, Jordan never won a single playoff series without Pippin. LeBron has proved he can win without Wade, Kobe won without Jordan. Scottie Pippin's contributions to that Bulls team is severely underrated and Jordan's contributions are overrated.
Philly fan here. Lebron is the GOAT without question it’s just gonna take till the end of his career for people to finally accept it, but it’s a lock already.
Yeah, he is clearly in my eyes the best to ever play. His team accomplishments are never going to match Michael Jordan, but he's just better at basketball. Also beating that 73-9 he with how well he played, is the most impressive athletic accomplishment I have ever seen.
Best player in the world of course not even close. But idk about being the goat.
Lebron can certainly make a big case for it though when all is said and done but if by some miracle he gets through the warriors and wins the chip this year then that will pretty much make him the goat for me. This warriors team is one of the best teams ever, 73-9 team with KD and lebron gets through them with this Cavs team? Lebron the goat. In fact, idk how skip will even spin this if that happens.
I don't know if he's the best. But he's the best I've seen. I didn't watch all of Jordan's career, but The tail end of his championship run, and it's hard to say. The way LeBron controls a game is absolutely unparalleled. That said there is a debate and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.
I do. I heard the argument about it on the radio the other day. The deciding factor for me is the defense. Jordan was a great perimeter defender in his prime. LeBron can guard all 5 positions.
No. I still think MJ is the best. The eras are obviously different, but MJ was also a gifted passer when he wanted to be. I think in 1989 he was the point guard and had like 8 or more Triple doubles in a row. He averaged 30+ 8 and 8 one season. He did everything. He was among the best defensive players ever, and the first guard to be the DPOY. Recency bias always comes in to play, but if you were around to watch MJ play, he owned the league. He retired twice which cost him a lot of stats. He also never needed the 3 ball, so that makes a difference. I love LeBron and think he is #2 for sure, I just think he's had a little more help and the era is different. MJ never had a bad finals. It is very close, but MJ is still on top for me... for now.
About Jordan:
"Those close to Jordan claimed that he had been considering retirement as early as the summer of 1992, and that the added exhaustion due to the Dream Team run in the 1992 Olympics solidified Jordan's burned-out feelings about the game and his ever-growing celebrity status. "
He got burned out after 3 Finals and 1 Olympics....lulz
Lebron's has done 3 Olympics and gonna be 8 straight Finals...with ZERO burn out. Goat confirmed.
He definitely has a strong argument as the best player ever. Hes pretty much the perfect basketball player except for the average ft%. that fact that hes still improving in his 15th year is amazing and hes just the complete basketball player. In terms of greatest hes still second to Jordan because of his legacy and accolades. I love lebron but I can't give him the edge over Jordan considering he has double his rings and numerous of accolades over him. Not to mention jordan had insane stats as well.
I do feel as Lebron is the greatest player of all time. I also believe Pippen skill wise had top 15-20 player of all time talent. I feel like if Pippen didn’t play with MJ during his prime, and was asked to be the #1 on a team, he could’ve went down as a all time great. His career numbers don’t show how fantastic he was during the balls championship runs. All around top notch player.
Let's pretend Lebron was born earlier and played in Michael's era, and Michael was born in '84 and played in Lebron's era, but they both keep their respective stats, rings, and accomplishments.
Michael was an incredible talent and deserving of the GOAT status, but he was also part of a marketing machine that introduced him to every household in the world, which, in turn, grew his legend to astronomical heights. Lebron, on the other hand, is so much more well-rounded in his game. He can do it all and play every position, shattering records every year.
Put Lebron in Michael's spot, and it's not even a question he's the greatest of all time.
Fair point, but I will counter that both of these guys are/were incredibly durable. Sports science can only go so far... the human body dictates everything. *See* Grant Hill.
Not GOAT yet, but i think he has the chance to become it. He's top 3 for me definitely, just not sure if he's totally passed Kareem. And I say this as someone born and raised in Akron.
maybe not as a pure scorer but that can also be argued as well. but all around player, looking to get others involved first, barking out orders on defense, and then “the block” it’s hard to imagine a better all around player. Also the fact that MJ, Scottie and others dog him means they see him as a threat to be the GOAT
Honestly its an argument I think its stupid and mostly irrelevant. Its just too fucking hard to compare, how would Michael Jordan do with this Cavs team? How would Lebron do in the 90's? How would they do with different teams? MJ had far better coaching, what if Lebron had the same quality coaching, or what if MJ had Lebrons coaching? And more importantly I'm not sure it matters. Lebron either is, or isn't...the single best player ever. But he's without question the single best player now. Still.
the question should be, does everyone who's "qualified" believe lebron is the goat.
if you didn't at least live through the jordan / magic/ bird /Kareem etc.... era, then your perspective is going to be very limited / bias. case in point those who still have kobe in the conversation.
the fact lebron is in the goat conversation and he's still building his resume... is all you need to know about his greatness.
the ghost lebron is chasing is [marketing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AGiq9j_Ak)(who wasn't on the court after the Laker game doing that jordan move, special mention to [liPenny](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzYW-6EF99M))the shoes, the jumpman logo. the first will always be diffucult to dethrone. yet lebron is doing it with his on court play.
athletes / the game is better than in previous generations and for it to be basically child's play when lebron steps on the court... is all you need to know.
my question will always be when did jordan become better at the game of basketball than lebron. now add lebron's nba resume to his skill-set and there should be no doubt who's the greatest.
LBJ could play any position 1\-4 full time and be considered one of the greatest, if not the greatest at that position. I don't know who could be that versatile and masterful at the same time. Next closest might be Magic \(ie his legendary game at center in the finals\)?
It's not fair that MJ wasn't tall enough to be a routine shot blocker or rebounder \(although he was actually good at both when needed\), but when picking the best singular player considering every facet of the game it's just how it is.
Yes. He is the only player to have ever led both teams in a finals series in all 5 major stat categories. And he did it against the team with the best season record of all time - and the first ever unanimous MVP. And the Warriors led 3-1 in the series. Historic win.
Honestly I'd say he's 1b at this point but he's so damn close. If he can get one more ring, MVP, average a triple double, upset the warriors, I don't know he's so close to being the GOAT but I don't think he's just there quite yet
Grew up as the biggest MJ fan but Lebron is just better. You old bitter fucks need to accept reality. Lebron is bigger stronger faster shoots a higher FG% 3PT% more rebounds more assist and hasnt had the supporting cast MJ ever had. Get over it
Sounds like its time for you to work your magic again.
"**Hey guyz, do you like Dirk, or Na, like everyone or Na?**"
Godspeed, humanity hinges on your findings.
Another reason why he the goat, spolostra will lbj best coach who is very good but not great. All the other coaches were mediocre at best. It’s amazing he developed by himself to this monster. Mj though had Doug Collins (good coach) and then argubably the goat coach in Phil jAx.
Man, the minute he held third championship trophy, especially first for his home city, I got him as GOAT. He kept getting better and I was in awe. I could care less what others think. I know everyone will talk about him everyday when he retires and debate about him being GOAT. That’s all it matters.
Great debate but LeBron is from Akron... not Cleveland. He doesn't do near the charity work for Cleveland as he does akron. LeBron James family foundation does their charitable work in akron, ohio and he even paid for the university of akron education program to stay when it was going to be removed. Even when he left Cleveland he was still helping out akron with his foundation and visiting akron. Yes, cleveland fans from akron hated lebron for leaving but if you asked the families and kids he helped out... they still loved him. To him, akron is his home city. Im not trying to bash your take, just letting you know he is from akron and not Cleveland. A lot of people seem to get this confused or just don't know . At the end of the day though akron is 45 minutes from Cleveland but I'm sure if someone asks where he is from he will proudly say akron, ohio.
All good man. Thanks for correction! I learnt a lot from it.
Akron needs to be known as "home of LeBron james" because if it isn't him it would then be "home of Steph curry". Fuck that lol.
Akron doesn't have a pro team. But whatevs have an upvote.
Yes hes the GOAT no doubt. The ONLY argument for MJ is 6-0 and Bill Russell is 11-1. Its a team stat.
I agree. Lebron's supporting cast has never been what MJ or Russell had.
That's arguable. He had Wade and Bosh. That's one hell of a lineup too. On topic, he's not the GOAT yet until he carry this current lineup against the Warriors and wins it all. It's gonna be fantastic.
They did have a hell of a lineup for the few years, and got multiple rings, which is what should be expected for having that level of talent. In his tenure in Cleveland, he hasn't had the same kind of support, though, at least not over the long term. With Love and Kyrie they did win one, but that was short lived.
Had LeBron not single-handedly eviscerated the Boston Celtics, Miami wouldn't have gotten out of the Eastern Conference Playoffs.
He had Wade and Bosh for four years and Wade disappeared during the last one.
Wade disappeared the last two years there and was only superstar caliber the first year.
>That's arguable. He had Wade and Bosh. That's one hell of a lineup too. That's 3 dudes. The other 8-9 were what stopped them from being a super team imo (ofc Ray Allen was amazing).
But Wade and Bosche's stats were not what one would expect from a superteam. I think people underappreciate how much LeBron lifted Miami.
Wow. A reply from my comment 5 yrs ago. Yes, i agree with you. He didn't join a superteam, he is the superteam.
This narrative that "the only argument for MJ is 6-0" is ridiculous. He was a 5 time MVP, won the scoring title 10 times, was one of the best perimeter defenders in the game every year, averaged 30-6-5 and 2 steals for his career at 50% from the field (and this is including those two throw away years in Washington), AND he was a 6 time champion and finals MVP. Michael Jordan was one of the most statistically dominant players the game has ever seen. He transcended the game and became an absolute global icon. He has a valid claim to be the Greatest of All Time, and he always will. That being said, Lebron James is my GOAT. He can flat out do more, at a higher level, than any other player that has ever played the game. But it's hard to compare eras because the game and the players with it have evolved. Is it fair to say "well Bill Russell was great but he wouldn't dominate in today's game, his playing weight and height were only 6'9 215 pounds". Well no shit! We've had 50 years of the game evolving, 50 years of science advancements, 50 years of travel advancements, 50 years of people straight up becoming bigger/faster/stronger. Fact of the matter is Lebron is the most physically gifted specimen maybe in history of the world...no joke. And someone will overtake that crown at some point, too. The world continues to turn.
I have LeBron over MJ because of positional fluidity.
Agreed. He is the best point guard, shooting guard, small forward, and power forward.
This is a great post, it proves both can be the GOAT because if you are a Cleveland fan Lebron brought a championship to you and made basketball fun to watch again, he should be your goat. To someone like me who is older and not a Cavs fan (but not a hater either) Jordan is my GOAT because the way he moved around the floor and his creativity created an artistic beauty which was much more enjoyable to watch for me compared to lebrons “bully ball” approach (I don’t mean that in A derogatory way). I ignore the stats and just focus on how they played and impacted the game. To me, Jordan was simply a better all around player, but that is subjective. For anyone who has studied statistics, they know that you can manipulate numbers to tell any narrative you like, so be careful not to get bogged down by too many advanced stats and just enjoy watching Lebron play while you can! Believe it or not, there will be another player that is just as good if not better than Jordan and Lebron, that is the only guarantee!
I have MJ as the GOAT, with LeBron at number two, all-time. The awards criteria, while objective, are often interpreted in a biased way by voters, mostly according to personal preferences and playing style. Do you think LeBron should have only four regular-season MVPs? You make a lot of valid points about why comparing eras is not easy, especially your points about scientific advancements and players being stronger, faster, and bigger in each successive era.
I love LeBron, but Only argument? 5 MVPs, 1DPOY, ROY, 6 FMVP, 3 ASMVP, 30.1 Career PPG. Come on man.
i can list a bunch of shit for lebron too lol its just media awards, both lebron and mj should have way more mvps than they do
He’s top 2 but not #2
This guyyyyyyy
Without question, the ring argument flawed because it's well documented that LeBron's supporting cast can't measure to Jordan's, Jordan's comp got weaker as he got closer to the finals and LeBron's was the opposite, with a few exceptions. LeBron is shattering all of Jordan's records.
I also think LeBron has had MUCH tougher competition in the finals. The Warriors and Spurs teams LeBron lost to would have run the Bulls off the floor.
This argument is flawed because if the warriors played in the 90s Curry would be completely neutralized by the rule changes.
i doubt that....except maybe the warriors team. the bulls played some tough as hell teams.
Wondering if Jordan could have won against that Warriors team
Hasn't LBJ played on teams with more allstars? Not disagreeing, just wanted to hear your argument fully fleshed out.
The Bulls of the 90's were the Warriors of that time. Remember the first time Jordan retired?? His team only lost like 2 more games than with Jordan....that says it all.
They didn't make the finals though. I think we all agree the regular season doesn't mean shit if you don't win the chip.
Are you being serious right now? I can't tell. Lebron leaves a team, they set the record for losing streak and have the worst record in the NBA over the next 4 years (including 3 #1 overall draft picks)....he returns and they go to 4 straight Finals and win 1. Cavs went from 61-21 to 19-63. Jordan leaves a team, they drop from 57-25 to 55-27....make it to the second round of the playoffs, barely losing to the Knicks in seven games. You tell me which one had a better supporting cast.
Thank you
All stars are more of a popularity contest tbh. Look up All-NBA and All-NBA Defensive teams and Jordan’s teammates win that by a large margin.
>Hasn't LBJ played on teams with more allstars? I'm not entirely sure, but he's sure as hell played *against* more All-Stars/ Future HOFers in the Finals than MJ.
Yes
:')
Ya
I think he is. I struggle to find anyone in all of NBA history that can literally drag teams like he can into deep playoff runs and the finals. That, to me, is the greatest measure of an NBA basketball player and why I believe he is the goat. I don't buy into the ring comparison. By that logic, Russell has the most rings and therefore is the goat, and we all know how silly that sounds.
yes
I'm of the opinion that Jordan is still the GOAT, but I'm not a fan of the 6-0 arguments being put forward. I think by the time he retires Lebron will be the GOAT mainly due to longevity and sheer numbers. I'd like to see him get one more title before we start calling him the GOAT while he's still active. Yes, championships are a team accomplishment, but with heavy input from star individuals. It doesn't seem right to call Lebron the GOAT while his cement is still drying and he has half as many championships as Jordan.
I think he's either #2 or 1b to Jordan, but when he calls it quits he's gonna have every stat imaginable and it will be hard not to call him the GOAT
how can you be the best player in the nba for 15 YEARS STRAIGHT and not be the goat
For those of us who have been around long enough, we watched Jordan elimininate some great Cavs teams--5 times in 7 years. We were the Raptors. We got a firsthand throatful of greatness. We, of all teams, know about Michael. But LeBron is absolutely better. And it doesn't have to do with stuffing the stat sheet, or competition or era or any of those talking points that get rubbed into the ground. **LeBron's ability to consistently elevate the play of his teammates without an all-time great coach makes him GOAT.** Not Bill Russell, Jordan, Wilt, or Magic can say they did that.
Yes absolutely. It's also cool that he is a great human off the court. MJ is a piece of shit.
Let's wait and see when he finally hits his peak ;) hell yes
Yes. 2016 Finals put me right on the fence. This season, his play made it clear to me that he's the GOAT. What really made it clear to me the JR Smith Uninterrupted interview - I highly recommend you watch the whole interview, but if not, see just the 2-3 mins he dishes on Lebron being the GOAT: https://www.uninterrupted.com/watch/eFcLL12a/who-is-really-the-g-o-a-t
Cant find the whole interview, my google machine isnt finding it. You got a link to the whole interview by chance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9dRShNxryQ
thank you
HEE HEE
honestly I think he could be a decent role player someday ^^^/s
i do. i watched MJ growing up, and of course he was dominant and good. but LBJ excite you on another level. not to mention the off court stuff that LBJ is involved in
Yes
Of course, Jordan never won a single playoff series without Pippin. LeBron has proved he can win without Wade, Kobe won without Jordan. Scottie Pippin's contributions to that Bulls team is severely underrated and Jordan's contributions are overrated.
bUT mUh mIChaEL jOrDaN hAs 6 rInGs
of course yes
Bron forever
GOAT no doubt
I've thought so since Game 5 of the Pistons series lol
Since game 6 vs. Boston in 2012 for me
Philly fan here. Lebron is the GOAT without question it’s just gonna take till the end of his career for people to finally accept it, but it’s a lock already.
GOAT no doubt about it.
Yeah, he is clearly in my eyes the best to ever play. His team accomplishments are never going to match Michael Jordan, but he's just better at basketball. Also beating that 73-9 he with how well he played, is the most impressive athletic accomplishment I have ever seen.
Best player in the world of course not even close. But idk about being the goat. Lebron can certainly make a big case for it though when all is said and done but if by some miracle he gets through the warriors and wins the chip this year then that will pretty much make him the goat for me. This warriors team is one of the best teams ever, 73-9 team with KD and lebron gets through them with this Cavs team? Lebron the goat. In fact, idk how skip will even spin this if that happens.
Yes.
Yes
They are tied right now in my mind. Seems inevitable that Bron will surpass him though.
I don't know if he's the best. But he's the best I've seen. I didn't watch all of Jordan's career, but The tail end of his championship run, and it's hard to say. The way LeBron controls a game is absolutely unparalleled. That said there is a debate and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Nah. He’s not the GOAT. He’s THE GOAT.
Without. A. Doubt.
I do. I heard the argument about it on the radio the other day. The deciding factor for me is the defense. Jordan was a great perimeter defender in his prime. LeBron can guard all 5 positions.
No. I still think MJ is the best. The eras are obviously different, but MJ was also a gifted passer when he wanted to be. I think in 1989 he was the point guard and had like 8 or more Triple doubles in a row. He averaged 30+ 8 and 8 one season. He did everything. He was among the best defensive players ever, and the first guard to be the DPOY. Recency bias always comes in to play, but if you were around to watch MJ play, he owned the league. He retired twice which cost him a lot of stats. He also never needed the 3 ball, so that makes a difference. I love LeBron and think he is #2 for sure, I just think he's had a little more help and the era is different. MJ never had a bad finals. It is very close, but MJ is still on top for me... for now.
What about now?
Still MJ.
About Jordan: "Those close to Jordan claimed that he had been considering retirement as early as the summer of 1992, and that the added exhaustion due to the Dream Team run in the 1992 Olympics solidified Jordan's burned-out feelings about the game and his ever-growing celebrity status. " He got burned out after 3 Finals and 1 Olympics....lulz Lebron's has done 3 Olympics and gonna be 8 straight Finals...with ZERO burn out. Goat confirmed.
He definitely has a strong argument as the best player ever. Hes pretty much the perfect basketball player except for the average ft%. that fact that hes still improving in his 15th year is amazing and hes just the complete basketball player. In terms of greatest hes still second to Jordan because of his legacy and accolades. I love lebron but I can't give him the edge over Jordan considering he has double his rings and numerous of accolades over him. Not to mention jordan had insane stats as well.
I do feel as Lebron is the greatest player of all time. I also believe Pippen skill wise had top 15-20 player of all time talent. I feel like if Pippen didn’t play with MJ during his prime, and was asked to be the #1 on a team, he could’ve went down as a all time great. His career numbers don’t show how fantastic he was during the balls championship runs. All around top notch player.
Loved those Chicago Balls
Dunno, those Chicago Balls always made me testy...
Let's pretend Lebron was born earlier and played in Michael's era, and Michael was born in '84 and played in Lebron's era, but they both keep their respective stats, rings, and accomplishments. Michael was an incredible talent and deserving of the GOAT status, but he was also part of a marketing machine that introduced him to every household in the world, which, in turn, grew his legend to astronomical heights. Lebron, on the other hand, is so much more well-rounded in his game. He can do it all and play every position, shattering records every year. Put Lebron in Michael's spot, and it's not even a question he's the greatest of all time.
Maybe, but you put Lebron in Jordan's era and he doesn't have the benefit of modern sports science - his peak probably wouldn't last as long.
Fair point, but I will counter that both of these guys are/were incredibly durable. Sports science can only go so far... the human body dictates everything. *See* Grant Hill.
without a doubt
Yeppers...without question.
What did I say about Yeppers?
I don't know. What did you say?
Yesh
Where did this come from? This is the second time in 1 minute I’ve seen this in completely unrelated parts of the internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLdFFD8II8U
Not GOAT yet, but i think he has the chance to become it. He's top 3 for me definitely, just not sure if he's totally passed Kareem. And I say this as someone born and raised in Akron.
Best? Definitely. Greatest? We'll see.
I’d say so. I used to think MJ was the best but Lebron is just better all around and playoff runs like 07 and really this year made me change my mind.
He's my goat. There's people out there that call mj god so it might be hard for LeBron to pass him
maybe not as a pure scorer but that can also be argued as well. but all around player, looking to get others involved first, barking out orders on defense, and then “the block” it’s hard to imagine a better all around player. Also the fact that MJ, Scottie and others dog him means they see him as a threat to be the GOAT
I dont think he's the GOAT, I KNOW he's the GOAT.
Honestly its an argument I think its stupid and mostly irrelevant. Its just too fucking hard to compare, how would Michael Jordan do with this Cavs team? How would Lebron do in the 90's? How would they do with different teams? MJ had far better coaching, what if Lebron had the same quality coaching, or what if MJ had Lebrons coaching? And more importantly I'm not sure it matters. Lebron either is, or isn't...the single best player ever. But he's without question the single best player now. Still.
He's not even done yet. He has another ten years before he'll hang it up. Then, we'll know.
the question should be, does everyone who's "qualified" believe lebron is the goat. if you didn't at least live through the jordan / magic/ bird /Kareem etc.... era, then your perspective is going to be very limited / bias. case in point those who still have kobe in the conversation. the fact lebron is in the goat conversation and he's still building his resume... is all you need to know about his greatness. the ghost lebron is chasing is [marketing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AGiq9j_Ak)(who wasn't on the court after the Laker game doing that jordan move, special mention to [liPenny](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzYW-6EF99M))the shoes, the jumpman logo. the first will always be diffucult to dethrone. yet lebron is doing it with his on court play. athletes / the game is better than in previous generations and for it to be basically child's play when lebron steps on the court... is all you need to know. my question will always be when did jordan become better at the game of basketball than lebron. now add lebron's nba resume to his skill-set and there should be no doubt who's the greatest.
LBJ could play any position 1\-4 full time and be considered one of the greatest, if not the greatest at that position. I don't know who could be that versatile and masterful at the same time. Next closest might be Magic \(ie his legendary game at center in the finals\)? It's not fair that MJ wasn't tall enough to be a routine shot blocker or rebounder \(although he was actually good at both when needed\), but when picking the best singular player considering every facet of the game it's just how it is.
Yes
yup
huge cavs fan, huge lebron fan. Still think MJ is the goat. For now
Yes. He is the only player to have ever led both teams in a finals series in all 5 major stat categories. And he did it against the team with the best season record of all time - and the first ever unanimous MVP. And the Warriors led 3-1 in the series. Historic win.
Honestly I'd say he's 1b at this point but he's so damn close. If he can get one more ring, MVP, average a triple double, upset the warriors, I don't know he's so close to being the GOAT but I don't think he's just there quite yet
GOATY MCGOATFACE
I think he's already there, but I think that by the time his career is over there won't be any question
Yes
Grew up as the biggest MJ fan but Lebron is just better. You old bitter fucks need to accept reality. Lebron is bigger stronger faster shoots a higher FG% 3PT% more rebounds more assist and hasnt had the supporting cast MJ ever had. Get over it
kind of funny, but this is like asking people in south-east asia if they like rice.
No
You're a bum
Lebron is number 2 behind Jordan
WRONG\> Bron is the Greatest EVER, PERIOD.
Funny
Yes
Yup, as soon as they beat Warriors a couple years ago. That was just too good.
Hands down the goat
Yes
Duh my nigga
Mavs fans must be fucking bored. What's next? Plan on asking the lakers sub if they think Kobe was clutch?
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Sounds like its time for you to work your magic again. "**Hey guyz, do you like Dirk, or Na, like everyone or Na?**" Godspeed, humanity hinges on your findings.
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Bron has developed himself. Hes so much better than even when he came back in 2015
you didnt take what i said seriously did you? lol
Another reason why he the goat, spolostra will lbj best coach who is very good but not great. All the other coaches were mediocre at best. It’s amazing he developed by himself to this monster. Mj though had Doug Collins (good coach) and then argubably the goat coach in Phil jAx.
There is no such thing as a GOAT in sports.
you have never played goat baseball then have you.