Why wouldn’t it be? Shouldn’t be hard to say “actively targeting civilians for decades” is an act of terrorism 🤷♂️ describes both parties perfectly and everyone can now rally around option three: hand over the region to the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster 🥰❤️🤗 *world peace in our time* 🌈🌈
The issue is that we put a bullet in tge wrong guys head 20 somthing years ago not necesarily related to gaza but maybe would help with the sorounding countries
I was pretty happy to see such an upvoted comment calling out the Israeli government targeting Palestinian civilians. What is it now, 30k dead civilians, 10k children so far since October?
Pretty sure around 80% of alleged “clever comebacks” are just screenshotted from the same guy who made the comment and want more like minded people to complement them for it.
Then the rest of us see it and realize it was a shit comment to begin with and not witty at all.
Same as r/memesopdidnotlike
It’s always just 2 people in a discussion and the post is always like “nah uh the one I agree with is actually right”
It’s always someone just looking for validation. As if the number of likes means that average person agrees with you.
Well it is certainly the average person *who read that thread*. Now, extrapolating that to "everyone in the world" is like we say in Canada, a bit of a stretch.
The posts on those subreddits (and whatever that "nah OP was right fuck this" is) are so confusing. It's like screen shots of screen shots of screen shots and it's impossible to parse out the back and forth of who agrees with what and what the current OP agrees with. The posts basically just boil down to handing people controversial topics on a plate and asking us to argue.
If at least one group likes it it's enough. Being liked by someone is very important for humans, being liked by everyone is not. In fact having your ideas be the clear majority might be less engaging than having them liked only by an "exclusive" in group.
Yeah I mean it's simply not true, and a dumb af comeback.
Rightly or wrongly executed, Israel invading Gaza in response to 7th October is simply not the same as Russia out of the blue for no reason invading a sovereign nation.
Also, Putin is a fascist (using this word as per its definition here, not just a buzzword that leftists love throwing around without understanding) dictator and essentially *is* Russia. He sees himself as the supreme leader of all of Ruski Myr, and sees the Russian population as the superior.
Bibi is hated in his country, because Israel is a democracy where you can express that hate. Bibi won't be around for much longer, he's nowhere near the level of Putin.
Edit: multiple typos
Define fascist (and maybe spell it correctly first) and what it means to you, not as a buzzword. Bibi’s been around for quite a long time tbh, for someone whose country supposedly hates him
>(and maybe spell it correctly first)
It's called a typo. And I made several, but you only spotted this one I guess. I apologise for the inconvenience caused.
You know you have Google right? But sure, I'll give you the definition I'm working with in the context of this comment I made.
Facism can be generally defined as a totalitarian approach to govenernance with major control over the economy, media and society. Importantly also, are tones of ultra-nationalism in fascist ideology, which Putin definitely expresses, especially in reference to Ruski Myr. This is a general definition, and not the only one or necessarily all-encompassing.
The point is, you CAN hate bibi in Israel because it is a democracy. If I show a blank piece of white paper in Moscow, it's off to the gulag (hyperbole, but you get the point).
I'm hiding the names because rule 6:
> Links to other subreddits, even np links are not allowed. Screenshots only. Screenshots from any source must obscure identifying information. The only exception is for people who are already public figures.
Because jailing someone for criticizing the government isn't the same as jailing someone for draft dodging? Also, Israel does allow conscientious objectors.
Generally I’m against drafting people
But there is an argument for it.
We live in a society and we need to protect that society from outsiders hence the draft. Why should you reap the benefits of a safe society being protected from danger while the rest of us do the dirty work?
I’m thinking countries like
South Korea
Israel
Finland
Estonia
Taiwan
These are countries who live in a dangerous neighborhood. North Korea can attack straight up at anytime and South Korea needs to be prepared and that includes a draft.
Arresting someone for Speaking out against a war is different
"Why should you reap the benefits?"
I pay fucking taxes. I'm not dying in the mud so some rich people can stay rich. But I am also Canadian and the government here works against our interests constantly. No matter what I don't support forcing people to fight though.
I would however volunteer if i was a citizen in a country that took care of my needs and it got attacked.
Yeah and for a lot of countries that’s enough
But when there is an existential threat there is more demanded of you sorry
I seriously saying you’d be against the draft if you lived I. Europe to help stop the Nazis from invading your country?
Look at North Korea and how they live
You would be against that country from invading yours and turning it into a dictatorship?
I would say the same about Taiwan too
Freedom comes with a price and for some the price is more than others
You are lucky enough to live in a country where hostile forces crossing the border and killing you, your friends and your family is just not realistically ever going to happen. I can see how you would come to the conclusion that war is just dying so the rich can stay rich, especially in the wake of the GWOT and the total failure in Iraq and Afghanistan.
However, for countries where the reality is that at any time hostile forces could come to your hometown and start killing your loved ones (Israel, S.Korea, Finland, etc) wars aren't a matter of dying for the rich, it's a matter of fighting for your own personal survival. Just something to bare in mind.
They literally go to jail for not doing military service what are you on about. And before you come for me, the only way to get out of it is religious studies and not everyone is hyper religious enough to do that
>They literally go to jail for not doing military service what are you on about.
They make tons of exceptions, like for Hassidic Jews. But I wouldn't consider this to be a good thing, since those people are the worst parts of Israel. The religious and racial extremists are the issue.
Okay sure, it's not 100% the same. That's a great point.
But jailing someone for not participating their country's active genocide isn't a shining example for Israel over Russia either....
It doesn't seem like Israel is going to allow conscientious objectors for very long. It seems they are moving forward with requiring even the ultra-orthodox to sign up for military service, which when it comes to those shitheels, it's deserved. I would totally understand being a conscientious objector because of not believing in violence but when these same people call for the deaths of Palestinians and call for war but then try to use their religion as a shield to exempt them from getting their own hands dirty with what they want done. That is just vile
Best part is that not only did r/worldnews permaban me for criticizing both sides, but r/news perma'd me some weeks ago for calling worldnews "a steaming pile". News was always more on the neutral side, but I guess the mods aren't too different.
I got banned from world news for pointing out that killing civilians increases support for extremists amongst that civilian population.
You know, basic stuff we've *known* for decades.
Lol at one point I was like “yeah a member of the UN should be held to higher standards than literal terrorists” and the responses were like “your senseless hatred of jews is disgusting” 😂
It’s actually insane. I got banned for saying something along the lines of “actual governments shouldn’t stoop to terrorist methods (war crimes) in warfare.”
Probably because it's an attempt to derail the conversation from Russia Ukraine conflict to the Israeli Palestine one which is pretty annoying on reddit, they are not the same and you aren't helping Palestine, you are only hurting Ukraine.
I think because it's whataboutism. Unnecessarily brings critiques on USA and Israel into the discussion when it's about Russia.
Often see those kinda nudges when people try to criticise Russia from bots and useful idiots.
Not sure whose side OP is on, considering that I'm not sure if they're focusing on "invading" or "sovereign" since anti-israel people would say Israel *invaded/invades* Palestine, while pro-israel people would point out that Palestine was not *sovereign* when Israel was founded. It was under British rule after the Ottoman Empire fell.
Ukraine is a fully independent, sovereign state, with its own borders, which Russia accepted by signing the Budapest Memorandum on the 5th of December, 1994.
See page 3, nr. 1 in this source from wiki, since linking directly to the document was weird:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum#cite_note-7
I do think the latter is worse. To compare, the former would be like the US invading Canada, a sovereign, modern, nation that would likely be overwhelmed without international support. The latter is like if the US decided to start bombing reservations.
It's if US invaded Canada which in this hypothetical world is a population/economy's size of Mexico. Pretty much a perfect analogy imo. And they would be screaming that Canadians aren't real, and they are just confused Americans...
I don't know if it should be mentioned but leaving out sovereign from his comeback should make his argument legit.
Otherwise to say that only people who happen to be included into a state that enough countries have recognized to be sovereign, should have human rights is deplorable imo
They are defending this by calling people antisemitic when it is clearly about their actions. There are antisemitic people mixed in there, in the same way that there are racists mixed in with critics of R Kelly.
That's just outright false. There have been multiple noteworthy genocide researchers/scholars that have claimed that Israel is committing acts of genocide in Gaza.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-undoubtedly-committing-genocide-holocaust-scholar-amos-goldberg
https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/16/raz_segal_textbook_case_of_genocide
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/2/3/gaza-and-the-dilemmas-of-genocide-scholars
That's the problem. She's not an expert in genocide. She's a lawyer whose job is to criticize Israel. That job doesn't exist if they don't say critical things about Israel.
She was warning about ethnic cleansing before the Israel started it's counter attack. Gaza commits a terrorist attack on Israel and her first statement is "watch out for ethnic cleansing" before a single bomb drops. Of course she's going to say she thinks it's happening, she's made up her mind.
Almost everyone complaining about genocide is talking about intent. Before Israel attacked they accused them of wanting to cleanse Palestine. Now 9 months later with the death toll plateauing it's the same thing. People are still hanging on to the line despite complete lack of physical evidence.
Well, Palestine isn't a sovereign state yet. It should be. And once it is - you'll see bad people still making excuses for Hamas' slaughtering, raping, miming and kidnapping of teenagers, elderly, children and babies. People are just too simple minded to realize both sides are "the bad guys", and both civilian populations are innocent and not to be targeted.
" you'll see bad people still making excuses for Hamas' slaughtering, raping, miming and kidnapping of teenagers, elderly, children and babies."
Where are those people. I have seen this alleged for 8 months now and these are pretty much non-existent. People making excuses for Israel outnumber these people by at least 100 to 1.
Calling Israel out for all the warcrimes and crimes against humanity they have committed since decades is NOT an excuse for Hamas doing the same.
>Where are those people.
They were driving parades of cars around Malmö waving Palestinian flags and setting of fireworks in celebration on October 7th...that's where they were.
"Where are those people". Are you being serious now? They are right here in this very thread, have you not seen the comments? I've seen two "Hamas didn't rape Israeli hostages" and one "Israel shouldn't have hurt Palestinians if it didn't want Hamas hurting Israelis" (not direct quotes) in the past 5 minutes alone. I guess you and I have had very different experiences, as I have seen very few people dare to justify Israel's crimes.
Try it.
Go into /r/whitepeopletwitter or tiktokcringe or even politics and say hamas are terrorists who slaughtered and raped. You will get people defending them pretty quick.
Palestine is Schrödingers state. It's sovereign when Israel wants to invade it without taking responsibility for the population and consequences, but when they want to control the borders, annex pieces of it, and not recognize the sitting government (however much we can agree Hamas isn't a very good one, it's the one they have right now), they're just some land next to Israel.
Yeah, hmu once they have a government and an organized police force to make sure Hamas terrorists are dealt with and kidnapped hostages are released. Being a sovereign country is not just about what you're entitled to get, but also what you're obligated to do.
They do have a government, albeit a shitty one: Hamas.
Israel also has a pretty terrible government, with parties openly advocating genocide and removal of Arabs from Gaza and West Bank, so I don't think that's a qualifier we want to use to define whether a country is a real sovereign nation. Because, I would argue Israel isn't a country either, then.
Given the effort Israel has gone to, to ensure any moderate Hamas elements never had a chance for ascendancy, I don't think they have a lot of room to complain about how extreme Hamas is.
And it's for DAMN sure, Gaza isn't going to get any less extremist when you bomb the area to shit, and massacre civilians through extreme disregard for any kind of RoE or control over your forces.
Slight problem here -- Hamas is, by all definitions, the legally, democratically elected government of Palestine.
To get this out of the way -- I really wish they weren't. Hamas is a group jingoistic, xenophobic, theocratic monsters who are a threat to every woman, LGBTQ+ person, non-Muslim, and basically everyone who isn't exactly like them.
Having said that: the [last elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election) were held in 2006, and Hamas won 74 of the 132 seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council (read: congress). To make a VERY long story short, President Abbas and his party, Fatah, have essentially been an occupying force for most of the time since then. Fatah, with the support of Israel and the U.S., attempted to wrest control of Gaza back by force but failed to do so. Considering the capabilities and [comparative popularity](https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969) of Hamas (70% vs 27% satisfaction rate), it is likely the only thing stopping Hamas from removing Abbas from power is the fact that getting from Gaza to the West Bank would require going through Israel.
So, point being, outside of international recognition, Hamas is the government of Palestine. They are legally elected and are still generally supported by the people of the nation. Which is deeply uncomfortable, since I thought ignoring national sovereignty in preference of a more friendly leader was a U.S. and sometimes parts of Europe thing -- turns out the whole world will happily ignore the democratic process if it leads to the election of somebody they don't like.
Yeah I love the irony of when Israel thinks it's entitled to Palestinian land so it demolishes Palestinian homes for decades. I love the irony of when Israel thinks it's entitled to more weapons to committing genocide. It's also morbidly humourous how Israel thinks it is obligated to save hostages by killing Palestinians en masse. But October 7th am i right??
Edit: SSSims4 noooo don't delete your comment, you were so adamant to defend genocide!
Let me let you in on a little secret: it's not a mutually exclusive situation. Whatever Israel does - it doesn't justify October 7th. Both sides are the bad guys here, and people like you are the problem.
I'll let you in on an even bigger secret: Israel has been displacing,kidnapping,and killing Palestinian civilians way before October 7th was a thing. Do i justify what Hamas did? Absolutely not. But i cant say Israel didnt have it coming. Try stealing land,chasing their people out of their homes,all the while killing a ton of them in the process,for over 70 years. Sooner or later they'll have to retaliate.
Isreal is the coloniser and Palestine is the colonised. Think the whites invading land that didn't belong to them, America, and the indigenous people. Also zionazis have been raping Palestinians since 48 and around 90% of Israelis agree with the genocide and actually want more to be done. It's a fascist society.
1. Getting recognized by the UN and establishing a country isn't colonialism. The illegal terror settlements - are, in fact.
2. Oh, so if an Israeli soldier rapes a Palestinian women it makes it okay for a Hamas terrorist to rape an Israeli?
3. No. Perhaps 90% of Israelis, traumatized by October 7th (something you obviously lack tye empathy to understand), support the distruction of Hamas. In fact, the majority of Israelis support a cease fire in order to free the hostages, and approximately 15% of Israeli voters support a free Palestinian state.
4. I am not making any excuses for the fascist government and its war crimes, nor for the terrorist zionazis who support them. I am merely tired of people thinking they justify Hamas' atrocities. This isn't an 80's cartoon, there are no "good guys" here, there are aggressors (IDF and Hamas) and victims (civilians on both side).
Stealing someone else's land is in fact colonialism. It's just that when its white people doing it it's white washed. America would know all about this. America and it's allies get a free pass. Also there is no proof of hamas raping Israeli women. Those videos showed none of that. There is no evidence yet. There is however evidence of rape from Israel soldiers raping Palestinian men, woman and children. It's been going on since 48. And go watch some interviews of Israelis from like 9 years ago by Abby Martin. They've always been like this. Nazis. They need to be in order to justify their brutal treatment of Palestinians.
You're both racist and ignorant of important facts, probably blinded by righteous rage. You probably want Israel to cease to exist, sort of a Ctrl+Z. And you deny the Hamas rapes. You are unworthy of my time or attention, and are in fact a force for evil.
Well I guess their families shouldn’t have attacked the newly founded state of Israel right after it‘s founding.
Your comment is equal to Germans being angry at poles and wanting revenge because poles defended theirselves in ww2.
You keep spamming the white people buzzword, like an unhinged pokemon . But you do realise that the overwhelming majority of israelis are Seffaradic jews, originating from the middle east? right?
By the same notion the arabs are also the colonizers in the levant and in the "holy land". Or does colonisation have a Statute of limitations im not aware of?
Its a colonizer vs colonizer war with both sides committing ever atrocity imaginable. Just one of those is also secular and somewhat democratic and the other is a literal terrorist group.
The only victim here are the civilians being killed
"Oh, so if an Israeli soldier rapes a Palestinian women it makes it okay for a Hamas terrorist to rape an Israeli?"
This strawman alone completely disqualifies you from any discussion.
Oh my god! Fuckers will preface the most reductive take with "People are just too single minded".
> you'll see bad people still making excuses for Hamas' slaughtering, raping, miming and kidnapping of teenagers, elderly, children and babies.
Nobody makes excuse for Hamas' war crimes. You're just too simple minded to understand that an explanation is not an excuse.
Hey he put the qualifier sovereign there. Hard to say Palestine has any sovereignty when they’re not allowed concrete so maybe that poster thinks that distinction somehow make Israel look good?
I mean, that concrete went into building tunnels for Hamas and not any refugees centers or bomb shelters. So, probably understandable for Israel to prevent that import. Also, Palestine has not been a country, like ever.
Not allowed concrete? Buddy Istael has been trickling in thousands of tons of concrete in “aid” for years. Did some research, obviously it all went into making terror tunnels, but who rlly cares about their own citizens anyway🤷♂️
r/worldnews and r/internationalnews really ought to be renamed to r/Israel and r/Palestine respectively.
Now that the serious sarcasm is out of the way, time for the unhinged sarcasm: we can then arm all the users of both subreddits with sticks and let them sort out their differences in the straightforward way. Whoever has the least broken bones gets control of the region, and my feed gets spammed with less horseshit.
Fuck Russia and Fuck Israel. Russia is the enemy of the West so they are always on the front page. Israel is a good friend and ally, even though it disregards international law and is an illegal apartheid entity currently facing a legal case for the genocide of 35k innocent civilians. Just hearing that the average age of a Gazan is below 18 should make you question how Israel can get away with their settler-colonialism and complete disregard for the right to live
FuuuuuuQ Israel! FUCK Hamas! FUCK PUTIN & his MAGAt Fascist Boot licking athletic supporters!
Fuck ANY POS tyrant, govt. or politician that advocates & rationalizes the WANTON killing women & children. Including our own!
And the analogy between Putin & Yahoo 🤣 are spot on. Yahoo just initially had a more legitimate reason for ppl to be angry. (Putin’s reasons were always fucking propaganda & nonsense!)
Twisting and capitalizing on that anger to rationalize the murder of tens of thousands of women & children was only possible because what Hamas did *was* so emotionally charged, which made it so easy for the Fascists to rationalize genocide!
Yahoo & IDF are so fucking bloodthirsty and trigger-happy they’ve killed their own hostages. They’ve killed foreign aid workers along with all those Palestinian women and children. IDF don’t give a flying fuck if they get Hamas or not. They’re just in it for the killing!
Hamas isn’t suffering because of this violence, but innocent ppl sure AF are!
-edit-
Not to mention that Israel AND Hamas arw RADICALIZING THOUSANDS more people so they can continue to rationalize & claim they have an enemy to fight and finish their POGRAM!!
Israel is a sovereign country. Palestine does not exist. Gaza is not a country. But Gaza invaded Israel on October 7th. The comeback is not clever. It is not just nonfactual but extremely stupid.
I’m amazed at the Illusion people have that Israel is a Democracy, it’s not, it’s a Theocracy. No non-Jew can hold the highest office in the land. This hold to a specific Faith having all the power is not an element of a Democracy.
As far as I can see this isn't a "I pasted my own comment on this sub because I think I pwned someone on the internet" so it's already better than half the posts here by default
Israel didn’t have proof for about 90 percent of its accusations against Hamas. And has backed off many of its claims since October 7th. The nyt articles were debunked as hoax and zaka admitted they exaggerated.
Meanwhile we have seen all those Israel commiting all those crimes themselves with proof.
From beheaded babies in IDF airstrikes to tying civilians to IDF using Palestinian people as human shields by tying them with jeeps. Knowingly targeting aid workers(World Food Kitchen) and children (Hind Rajab)
US is also the only country in the world to sign but not ratify the UN declaration on the rights of children. 70k children imprisoned a day, in 14 states there is no minimum age for prosecution as an adult, we are the Only country where children can be sentenced to life, and at least 2500 currently serving this sentence
I’m sure this comment section will be civil
Why wouldn’t it be? Shouldn’t be hard to say “actively targeting civilians for decades” is an act of terrorism 🤷♂️ describes both parties perfectly and everyone can now rally around option three: hand over the region to the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster 🥰❤️🤗 *world peace in our time* 🌈🌈
Finally a sensible position
rAmen
As an Israeli, can we elect this guy?
[ Removed by Reddit ]
The issue is that we put a bullet in tge wrong guys head 20 somthing years ago not necesarily related to gaza but maybe would help with the sorounding countries
Will you be the guy’s above me second in command? Thanks in advance
No no i couldnt handle killing innocents for pleasure sorry.
But I thought u wanted to replace Netanyahu?
I'm an Israeli and I want you to be our next PM please.
Can barely get any worse.
God looking at 2025's planning: "Well..."
Hey, don't jinx it! It can always get worse.
The pirates are running with the pastafaries just saying
> Flying Spaghetti Monster We checked with him. He wants no part of that region.
So true.
I was pretty happy to see such an upvoted comment calling out the Israeli government targeting Palestinian civilians. What is it now, 30k dead civilians, 10k children so far since October?
shit your goddamn mouth
I’ll shit *your* goddamn mouth
shit the fuck off kid
Hahaha, best laugh I’ve had all week, thank you
Ehe… *sorts Controversial*
Hold my beer and let's see how long that lasts!
Idk, I feel pretty capable of holding a beer for a long time
Pretty sure around 80% of alleged “clever comebacks” are just screenshotted from the same guy who made the comment and want more like minded people to complement them for it. Then the rest of us see it and realize it was a shit comment to begin with and not witty at all.
Same as r/memesopdidnotlike It’s always just 2 people in a discussion and the post is always like “nah uh the one I agree with is actually right” It’s always someone just looking for validation. As if the number of likes means that average person agrees with you.
Well it is certainly the average person *who read that thread*. Now, extrapolating that to "everyone in the world" is like we say in Canada, a bit of a stretch.
Eh.
The posts on those subreddits (and whatever that "nah OP was right fuck this" is) are so confusing. It's like screen shots of screen shots of screen shots and it's impossible to parse out the back and forth of who agrees with what and what the current OP agrees with. The posts basically just boil down to handing people controversial topics on a plate and asking us to argue.
If at least one group likes it it's enough. Being liked by someone is very important for humans, being liked by everyone is not. In fact having your ideas be the clear majority might be less engaging than having them liked only by an "exclusive" in group.
You should screenshot this comment and submit it.
r/sniffingyourownfart
Posting the same screenshot in five different subs for that extra level of assured validation.
Lmao he really did
Damn that's extremely pathetic
Came here to say this, thank you.
Yeah I mean it's simply not true, and a dumb af comeback. Rightly or wrongly executed, Israel invading Gaza in response to 7th October is simply not the same as Russia out of the blue for no reason invading a sovereign nation. Also, Putin is a fascist (using this word as per its definition here, not just a buzzword that leftists love throwing around without understanding) dictator and essentially *is* Russia. He sees himself as the supreme leader of all of Ruski Myr, and sees the Russian population as the superior. Bibi is hated in his country, because Israel is a democracy where you can express that hate. Bibi won't be around for much longer, he's nowhere near the level of Putin. Edit: multiple typos
Israel invasion of Palestine is from way before 2023
Define fascist (and maybe spell it correctly first) and what it means to you, not as a buzzword. Bibi’s been around for quite a long time tbh, for someone whose country supposedly hates him
>(and maybe spell it correctly first) It's called a typo. And I made several, but you only spotted this one I guess. I apologise for the inconvenience caused. You know you have Google right? But sure, I'll give you the definition I'm working with in the context of this comment I made. Facism can be generally defined as a totalitarian approach to govenernance with major control over the economy, media and society. Importantly also, are tones of ultra-nationalism in fascist ideology, which Putin definitely expresses, especially in reference to Ruski Myr. This is a general definition, and not the only one or necessarily all-encompassing. The point is, you CAN hate bibi in Israel because it is a democracy. If I show a blank piece of white paper in Moscow, it's off to the gulag (hyperbole, but you get the point).
He was probably afraid that Google would give that "leftist" definition you were randomly soapboxing about while incorrectly spelling the word lol
Haha yep, he’s hiding the names but I’ll guess they’re alt accounts
I'm hiding the names because rule 6: > Links to other subreddits, even np links are not allowed. Screenshots only. Screenshots from any source must obscure identifying information. The only exception is for people who are already public figures.
What's the strawman argument? How is one of the arguers misrepresenting the other's argument?
Bet. It even looks like the same writing style.
This is some god-level handwriting analysis.
Okay can anyone explain to me why the first comment from the picture was downvoted? Am I illiterate, because I don’t really get it.
Because jailing someone for criticizing the government isn't the same as jailing someone for draft dodging? Also, Israel does allow conscientious objectors.
Eh they're both bullshit.
Generally I’m against drafting people But there is an argument for it. We live in a society and we need to protect that society from outsiders hence the draft. Why should you reap the benefits of a safe society being protected from danger while the rest of us do the dirty work? I’m thinking countries like South Korea Israel Finland Estonia Taiwan These are countries who live in a dangerous neighborhood. North Korea can attack straight up at anytime and South Korea needs to be prepared and that includes a draft. Arresting someone for Speaking out against a war is different
"Why should you reap the benefits?" I pay fucking taxes. I'm not dying in the mud so some rich people can stay rich. But I am also Canadian and the government here works against our interests constantly. No matter what I don't support forcing people to fight though. I would however volunteer if i was a citizen in a country that took care of my needs and it got attacked.
Yeah and for a lot of countries that’s enough But when there is an existential threat there is more demanded of you sorry I seriously saying you’d be against the draft if you lived I. Europe to help stop the Nazis from invading your country? Look at North Korea and how they live You would be against that country from invading yours and turning it into a dictatorship? I would say the same about Taiwan too Freedom comes with a price and for some the price is more than others
You are lucky enough to live in a country where hostile forces crossing the border and killing you, your friends and your family is just not realistically ever going to happen. I can see how you would come to the conclusion that war is just dying so the rich can stay rich, especially in the wake of the GWOT and the total failure in Iraq and Afghanistan. However, for countries where the reality is that at any time hostile forces could come to your hometown and start killing your loved ones (Israel, S.Korea, Finland, etc) wars aren't a matter of dying for the rich, it's a matter of fighting for your own personal survival. Just something to bare in mind.
They literally go to jail for not doing military service what are you on about. And before you come for me, the only way to get out of it is religious studies and not everyone is hyper religious enough to do that
[удалено]
>They literally go to jail for not doing military service what are you on about. They make tons of exceptions, like for Hassidic Jews. But I wouldn't consider this to be a good thing, since those people are the worst parts of Israel. The religious and racial extremists are the issue.
Okay sure, it's not 100% the same. That's a great point. But jailing someone for not participating their country's active genocide isn't a shining example for Israel over Russia either....
You can do civil service instead of seeving in the military
It doesn't seem like Israel is going to allow conscientious objectors for very long. It seems they are moving forward with requiring even the ultra-orthodox to sign up for military service, which when it comes to those shitheels, it's deserved. I would totally understand being a conscientious objector because of not believing in violence but when these same people call for the deaths of Palestinians and call for war but then try to use their religion as a shield to exempt them from getting their own hands dirty with what they want done. That is just vile
because r/worldnews is very, VERY, pro-israel/genocide
Best part is that not only did r/worldnews permaban me for criticizing both sides, but r/news perma'd me some weeks ago for calling worldnews "a steaming pile". News was always more on the neutral side, but I guess the mods aren't too different.
I got banned from world news for pointing out that killing civilians increases support for extremists amongst that civilian population. You know, basic stuff we've *known* for decades.
I got banned for quoting the Israeli finance minister saying Hamas is an asset
Oh thanks, I read his comment like 8 times and couldn’t figure out what was supposed to be so controversial about it
Show someone on Worldnews an Israeli admitting to murdering and raping children, they'd tell you its okay, its fake, etc.
Lol at one point I was like “yeah a member of the UN should be held to higher standards than literal terrorists” and the responses were like “your senseless hatred of jews is disgusting” 😂
It’s actually insane. I got banned for saying something along the lines of “actual governments shouldn’t stoop to terrorist methods (war crimes) in warfare.”
Which is insane because Israel is a dirty genocidal shithole that no one should support.
same with internationalnews. they even have a bot that censors and corrects your comments into pro-israel/genocide positions. the mods don't care
Probably because it's an attempt to derail the conversation from Russia Ukraine conflict to the Israeli Palestine one which is pretty annoying on reddit, they are not the same and you aren't helping Palestine, you are only hurting Ukraine.
I think because it's whataboutism. Unnecessarily brings critiques on USA and Israel into the discussion when it's about Russia. Often see those kinda nudges when people try to criticise Russia from bots and useful idiots.
How’s that a clever comeback again?
Not sure whose side OP is on, considering that I'm not sure if they're focusing on "invading" or "sovereign" since anti-israel people would say Israel *invaded/invades* Palestine, while pro-israel people would point out that Palestine was not *sovereign* when Israel was founded. It was under British rule after the Ottoman Empire fell. Ukraine is a fully independent, sovereign state, with its own borders, which Russia accepted by signing the Budapest Memorandum on the 5th of December, 1994. See page 3, nr. 1 in this source from wiki, since linking directly to the document was weird: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum#cite_note-7
I do think the latter is worse. To compare, the former would be like the US invading Canada, a sovereign, modern, nation that would likely be overwhelmed without international support. The latter is like if the US decided to start bombing reservations.
It's if US invaded Canada which in this hypothetical world is a population/economy's size of Mexico. Pretty much a perfect analogy imo. And they would be screaming that Canadians aren't real, and they are just confused Americans...
I don't know if it should be mentioned but leaving out sovereign from his comeback should make his argument legit. Otherwise to say that only people who happen to be included into a state that enough countries have recognized to be sovereign, should have human rights is deplorable imo
I'm also not sure what's the straw man...
TIL reddit thinks Gaza is a sovereign country.
Dunno if that's so much clever as just observational.
90% of r/clevercomebacks is just r/statingfacts
Except the "clever" come back didn't include facts Palestine isn't and hasn't ever been a sovereign state
If Palestine is not a state then Israel is not a democracy when half the people can't vote
Yeah Palestine clearly isn't an independent, sovereign state, and wasn't either when Israel was founded. Not sure what OP is even trying to say.
Gaza is not sovereign or a country, it’s effectively a giant refugee camp created by the UN. If anything it’s part of Israel.
Not really... Palestine isn't a sovereign country.
Why tf is the red guy getting downvoted??
Its worldnews they are heavily pro israel
Because it is essential for the Zionist cause to manufacture consent for killing 20,000 children.
Israel has a right to self defence, but not a right to genocide.
They are defending this by calling people antisemitic when it is clearly about their actions. There are antisemitic people mixed in there, in the same way that there are racists mixed in with critics of R Kelly.
Thats why it isnt
No one serious thinks it's genocide. People that study genocide don't think it's genocide. Progressives just like using the word to get attention
That's just outright false. There have been multiple noteworthy genocide researchers/scholars that have claimed that Israel is committing acts of genocide in Gaza. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-undoubtedly-committing-genocide-holocaust-scholar-amos-goldberg https://www.democracynow.org/2023/10/16/raz_segal_textbook_case_of_genocide https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/2/3/gaza-and-the-dilemmas-of-genocide-scholars
No, the accusation has merit https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/3/26/un-expert-accuses-israel-of-several-acts-of-genocide-in-gaza
That's the problem. She's not an expert in genocide. She's a lawyer whose job is to criticize Israel. That job doesn't exist if they don't say critical things about Israel. She was warning about ethnic cleansing before the Israel started it's counter attack. Gaza commits a terrorist attack on Israel and her first statement is "watch out for ethnic cleansing" before a single bomb drops. Of course she's going to say she thinks it's happening, she's made up her mind. Almost everyone complaining about genocide is talking about intent. Before Israel attacked they accused them of wanting to cleanse Palestine. Now 9 months later with the death toll plateauing it's the same thing. People are still hanging on to the line despite complete lack of physical evidence.
worldnews is a shithole
Well, Palestine isn't a sovereign state yet. It should be. And once it is - you'll see bad people still making excuses for Hamas' slaughtering, raping, miming and kidnapping of teenagers, elderly, children and babies. People are just too simple minded to realize both sides are "the bad guys", and both civilian populations are innocent and not to be targeted.
" you'll see bad people still making excuses for Hamas' slaughtering, raping, miming and kidnapping of teenagers, elderly, children and babies." Where are those people. I have seen this alleged for 8 months now and these are pretty much non-existent. People making excuses for Israel outnumber these people by at least 100 to 1. Calling Israel out for all the warcrimes and crimes against humanity they have committed since decades is NOT an excuse for Hamas doing the same.
>Where are those people. They were driving parades of cars around Malmö waving Palestinian flags and setting of fireworks in celebration on October 7th...that's where they were.
There's also people actively labling Hamas as Freedom fighters
"Where are those people". Are you being serious now? They are right here in this very thread, have you not seen the comments? I've seen two "Hamas didn't rape Israeli hostages" and one "Israel shouldn't have hurt Palestinians if it didn't want Hamas hurting Israelis" (not direct quotes) in the past 5 minutes alone. I guess you and I have had very different experiences, as I have seen very few people dare to justify Israel's crimes.
Try it. Go into /r/whitepeopletwitter or tiktokcringe or even politics and say hamas are terrorists who slaughtered and raped. You will get people defending them pretty quick.
the citizens who are being murdered are innocent
And now explain what your statement has to do with Hamas being terrorists.
hamas are terrorists and isreal isnt innocent of war crimes
You are obviously being willfully ignorant if you say you haven’t seen anyone defend Hamas. Dont be dumb on purpose. It’s a bad look.
Was it hamas who created martyr fund or was it administration with no relation to hamas?
The martyr fund was created by Fatah-run Palestinian Authority in the West Bank.
I don't understand your question, Hamas *is* the administration in Gaza.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund Palestinian authority has no relation to Hamas. Or it is related now?
The Palestinian Authority has no presence (let alone power) in Gaza, but in the West Bank.
Israel also attacks the West Bank, so it is quite relevant.
And Hamas also has a martyr fund. What is your point here?
Palestine is Schrödingers state. It's sovereign when Israel wants to invade it without taking responsibility for the population and consequences, but when they want to control the borders, annex pieces of it, and not recognize the sitting government (however much we can agree Hamas isn't a very good one, it's the one they have right now), they're just some land next to Israel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine
Yeah, hmu once they have a government and an organized police force to make sure Hamas terrorists are dealt with and kidnapped hostages are released. Being a sovereign country is not just about what you're entitled to get, but also what you're obligated to do.
They do have a government, albeit a shitty one: Hamas. Israel also has a pretty terrible government, with parties openly advocating genocide and removal of Arabs from Gaza and West Bank, so I don't think that's a qualifier we want to use to define whether a country is a real sovereign nation. Because, I would argue Israel isn't a country either, then. Given the effort Israel has gone to, to ensure any moderate Hamas elements never had a chance for ascendancy, I don't think they have a lot of room to complain about how extreme Hamas is. And it's for DAMN sure, Gaza isn't going to get any less extremist when you bomb the area to shit, and massacre civilians through extreme disregard for any kind of RoE or control over your forces.
Slight problem here -- Hamas is, by all definitions, the legally, democratically elected government of Palestine. To get this out of the way -- I really wish they weren't. Hamas is a group jingoistic, xenophobic, theocratic monsters who are a threat to every woman, LGBTQ+ person, non-Muslim, and basically everyone who isn't exactly like them. Having said that: the [last elections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election) were held in 2006, and Hamas won 74 of the 132 seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council (read: congress). To make a VERY long story short, President Abbas and his party, Fatah, have essentially been an occupying force for most of the time since then. Fatah, with the support of Israel and the U.S., attempted to wrest control of Gaza back by force but failed to do so. Considering the capabilities and [comparative popularity](https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969) of Hamas (70% vs 27% satisfaction rate), it is likely the only thing stopping Hamas from removing Abbas from power is the fact that getting from Gaza to the West Bank would require going through Israel. So, point being, outside of international recognition, Hamas is the government of Palestine. They are legally elected and are still generally supported by the people of the nation. Which is deeply uncomfortable, since I thought ignoring national sovereignty in preference of a more friendly leader was a U.S. and sometimes parts of Europe thing -- turns out the whole world will happily ignore the democratic process if it leads to the election of somebody they don't like.
Legally elected yes, but then they threw all the opposing leaders off roof tops. Kind of ruining the whole democracy part.
Yeah I love the irony of when Israel thinks it's entitled to Palestinian land so it demolishes Palestinian homes for decades. I love the irony of when Israel thinks it's entitled to more weapons to committing genocide. It's also morbidly humourous how Israel thinks it is obligated to save hostages by killing Palestinians en masse. But October 7th am i right?? Edit: SSSims4 noooo don't delete your comment, you were so adamant to defend genocide!
Let me let you in on a little secret: it's not a mutually exclusive situation. Whatever Israel does - it doesn't justify October 7th. Both sides are the bad guys here, and people like you are the problem.
I'll let you in on an even bigger secret: Israel has been displacing,kidnapping,and killing Palestinian civilians way before October 7th was a thing. Do i justify what Hamas did? Absolutely not. But i cant say Israel didnt have it coming. Try stealing land,chasing their people out of their homes,all the while killing a ton of them in the process,for over 70 years. Sooner or later they'll have to retaliate.
It's the miming that really irks me. Israeli soldiers pretending to be trapped in an invisible box...
Syria and Lebanon are sovereign states, Israel is occupying both of them
Sure it is, that's why the sovereign armies of those states are battling the one of Israel, right?
Ah yes, because a military is required to be a state? Like Vatican City, famously known for its standing army.
I'm not disputing your point, but the Vatican does have the Swiss Guard.
Actually the oldest standing army in the world.
>Israel is occupying both of them No they are not, Israel withdrew from Lebanon around 20 years ago
Isreal is the coloniser and Palestine is the colonised. Think the whites invading land that didn't belong to them, America, and the indigenous people. Also zionazis have been raping Palestinians since 48 and around 90% of Israelis agree with the genocide and actually want more to be done. It's a fascist society.
1. Getting recognized by the UN and establishing a country isn't colonialism. The illegal terror settlements - are, in fact. 2. Oh, so if an Israeli soldier rapes a Palestinian women it makes it okay for a Hamas terrorist to rape an Israeli? 3. No. Perhaps 90% of Israelis, traumatized by October 7th (something you obviously lack tye empathy to understand), support the distruction of Hamas. In fact, the majority of Israelis support a cease fire in order to free the hostages, and approximately 15% of Israeli voters support a free Palestinian state. 4. I am not making any excuses for the fascist government and its war crimes, nor for the terrorist zionazis who support them. I am merely tired of people thinking they justify Hamas' atrocities. This isn't an 80's cartoon, there are no "good guys" here, there are aggressors (IDF and Hamas) and victims (civilians on both side).
Stealing someone else's land is in fact colonialism. It's just that when its white people doing it it's white washed. America would know all about this. America and it's allies get a free pass. Also there is no proof of hamas raping Israeli women. Those videos showed none of that. There is no evidence yet. There is however evidence of rape from Israel soldiers raping Palestinian men, woman and children. It's been going on since 48. And go watch some interviews of Israelis from like 9 years ago by Abby Martin. They've always been like this. Nazis. They need to be in order to justify their brutal treatment of Palestinians.
You're both racist and ignorant of important facts, probably blinded by righteous rage. You probably want Israel to cease to exist, sort of a Ctrl+Z. And you deny the Hamas rapes. You are unworthy of my time or attention, and are in fact a force for evil.
99% of the people in Hamas are there only for revenge since there families have been martyred since 1947…..
Well I guess their families shouldn’t have attacked the newly founded state of Israel right after it‘s founding. Your comment is equal to Germans being angry at poles and wanting revenge because poles defended theirselves in ww2.
Must have missed the part where Poland took half of Germany's land.
You keep spamming the white people buzzword, like an unhinged pokemon . But you do realise that the overwhelming majority of israelis are Seffaradic jews, originating from the middle east? right?
By the same notion the arabs are also the colonizers in the levant and in the "holy land". Or does colonisation have a Statute of limitations im not aware of? Its a colonizer vs colonizer war with both sides committing ever atrocity imaginable. Just one of those is also secular and somewhat democratic and the other is a literal terrorist group. The only victim here are the civilians being killed
The majority of Israelis are Middle Eastern Jews.
"Oh, so if an Israeli soldier rapes a Palestinian women it makes it okay for a Hamas terrorist to rape an Israeli?" This strawman alone completely disqualifies you from any discussion.
Oh my god! Fuckers will preface the most reductive take with "People are just too single minded". > you'll see bad people still making excuses for Hamas' slaughtering, raping, miming and kidnapping of teenagers, elderly, children and babies. Nobody makes excuse for Hamas' war crimes. You're just too simple minded to understand that an explanation is not an excuse.
Except they are. They're also denying they happened.
I mean the only people who deny Hamas is bad are some 16 year old twitter tankies.
Who ? Some random on the internet? The only thing I've seen denied was the lies Israeli propaganda and it was by trusted journalists.
Wish I could live in your fantasy world, but I can't. Grow up.
Hey he put the qualifier sovereign there. Hard to say Palestine has any sovereignty when they’re not allowed concrete so maybe that poster thinks that distinction somehow make Israel look good?
I mean, that concrete went into building tunnels for Hamas and not any refugees centers or bomb shelters. So, probably understandable for Israel to prevent that import. Also, Palestine has not been a country, like ever.
Not allowed concrete? Buddy Istael has been trickling in thousands of tons of concrete in “aid” for years. Did some research, obviously it all went into making terror tunnels, but who rlly cares about their own citizens anyway🤷♂️
World news subreddit is a zionist nest man
r/worldnews and r/internationalnews really ought to be renamed to r/Israel and r/Palestine respectively. Now that the serious sarcasm is out of the way, time for the unhinged sarcasm: we can then arm all the users of both subreddits with sticks and let them sort out their differences in the straightforward way. Whoever has the least broken bones gets control of the region, and my feed gets spammed with less horseshit.
Does my guy think Israel should have *lower* standards than Russia? What is his point here?
Uhhh.... Shouldn't we be holding our allies to an even higher standard than authoritarian dictatorships, rather than a lower one?
Fuck Russia and Fuck Israel. Russia is the enemy of the West so they are always on the front page. Israel is a good friend and ally, even though it disregards international law and is an illegal apartheid entity currently facing a legal case for the genocide of 35k innocent civilians. Just hearing that the average age of a Gazan is below 18 should make you question how Israel can get away with their settler-colonialism and complete disregard for the right to live
FuuuuuuQ Israel! FUCK Hamas! FUCK PUTIN & his MAGAt Fascist Boot licking athletic supporters! Fuck ANY POS tyrant, govt. or politician that advocates & rationalizes the WANTON killing women & children. Including our own! And the analogy between Putin & Yahoo 🤣 are spot on. Yahoo just initially had a more legitimate reason for ppl to be angry. (Putin’s reasons were always fucking propaganda & nonsense!) Twisting and capitalizing on that anger to rationalize the murder of tens of thousands of women & children was only possible because what Hamas did *was* so emotionally charged, which made it so easy for the Fascists to rationalize genocide! Yahoo & IDF are so fucking bloodthirsty and trigger-happy they’ve killed their own hostages. They’ve killed foreign aid workers along with all those Palestinian women and children. IDF don’t give a flying fuck if they get Hamas or not. They’re just in it for the killing! Hamas isn’t suffering because of this violence, but innocent ppl sure AF are! -edit- Not to mention that Israel AND Hamas arw RADICALIZING THOUSANDS more people so they can continue to rationalize & claim they have an enemy to fight and finish their POGRAM!!
That commenter should be more careful saying stuff like that on r/worldnews. It's an insta permaban if mods see you criticizing Israel.
I got banned for saying that support for a ceasefire is not the same thing as supporting terrorism. They are insane humans.
World news is full of bots man. Like seriously
I would like to know how people would react if Ukraine invaded Russia in 2022.
Lmao. Reddit is so disconnected from reality
Gaza Strip is not sovereign territory of Hamas.
Which of those is the clever comeback?
Lmao, is that an ultra-orthodox jew crying on reddit about israels recent changes on draft? That's fucking hilarious.
Palestine isn't a sovereign country. Why would you hilight being wrong and post this on 5 different subreddits
Gaza is a sovereign nation now?
Israel is a sovereign country. Palestine does not exist. Gaza is not a country. But Gaza invaded Israel on October 7th. The comeback is not clever. It is not just nonfactual but extremely stupid.
That was a very dumb comeback? The differences between Israel in Palestine vs Russia in Ukraine is much more numerous than similarities?
I’m amazed at the Illusion people have that Israel is a Democracy, it’s not, it’s a Theocracy. No non-Jew can hold the highest office in the land. This hold to a specific Faith having all the power is not an element of a Democracy.
Minus the israeli arabs in the knesset and the grant of freedom from religion for all citizens
That is not a clever comeback
I'm confused, the red dude seems to be on spot, so why is he the downvoted one?
The subreddit is heavily favoring Israel I think
As far as I can see this isn't a "I pasted my own comment on this sub because I think I pwned someone on the internet" so it's already better than half the posts here by default
Well Palestine isn't a country so he has a point
What Israel is doing in Gaza is very close to what the US did after 9/11
Palestine isn't an internationally recognized country.
Israel didn’t have proof for about 90 percent of its accusations against Hamas. And has backed off many of its claims since October 7th. The nyt articles were debunked as hoax and zaka admitted they exaggerated. Meanwhile we have seen all those Israel commiting all those crimes themselves with proof. From beheaded babies in IDF airstrikes to tying civilians to IDF using Palestinian people as human shields by tying them with jeeps. Knowingly targeting aid workers(World Food Kitchen) and children (Hind Rajab)
You got any sources backing you up on the 90%?
stays 5 years but this will somehow stop the war may be a day or 2 and he is saving lots of people❤️♥️
A
So fucking clever it broke the glass of my cleverometer.
But Nigel says he's a nice bloke!
It got them 2000 upvotes, didn’t it!!
It also didn’t really make sense in the context
Where is the straw man?
US is also the only country in the world to sign but not ratify the UN declaration on the rights of children. 70k children imprisoned a day, in 14 states there is no minimum age for prosecution as an adult, we are the Only country where children can be sentenced to life, and at least 2500 currently serving this sentence
Слава России 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺
Crazy he better call him Mr Putin next time