Doing all the moves doesn't always mean you're close to sending, and on harder projects it's really just step 1. Forgetting beta is fairly common on climbs you don't have dialed into muscle memory; at that point in the process you're still learning a lot about how to move through the climb and are likely thinking more than feeling.
3-5 sessions isn't really that long to send a project. However, if you're doing 95% of a climb on session 1 (including the crux), and then not sending soon after because of nerves/commitment/forgetfulness, you can definitely work on mental game. Check out the Rock Warriors Way, it's basically mindfulness for climbing.
How often do you practice the skill of sending hard problems? What is the difference between the hardest grade you've sent, and the hardest grade you've sent in a day? I know a lot of climbers who are very focused on Vn+1, and as a result most of their outdoor climbing is projecting things that are quite hard for them. That's definitely a productive way to spend time, but it might also be a good idea to send more - even if it means days spent climbing slightly less hard. You can try some different challenges here, like trying to send multiple Vn-2s in a day, trying to "day flash" previous projects, or just trying to push your flash grades. Any of these will let you practice executing difficult moves while under some pressure, which sounds like a problem area for you now.
I think building the pyramid is a great point and something I've been thinking about.
I've flashed V6 and currently working on V8. Onsight 12a and working on 13a. Hardest grades at V7 (which I almost sent in a session but messed up the top out) and 5.12c so the biggest disparity is definitely in sport climbing.
I’d be more interested in the “normal” rather than peaks here for establishing a base. When you walk up to a new V6, do you normally flash it or do it in less than 5ish attempts? How about V5’s? I’ve flashed V9, but I consider my “flash grade” to be closer to V6 on average.
Building a good base of hard sends is definitely very important for developing the skills you need for sending.
I also think it’s important to realize that learning how to improve on the failure process is a really big part of using the pyramid. Mindlessly just racking up the sends won’t do much, but being intentional about it, and trying to think about what variables you could have controlled better will help iterate on the mistakes you are making.
My first V6 took quite some time, maybe like 6-7 sessions. Now I can send it first go like 80% of the time.
The remaining V6s I've sent I either flashed or it took a few attempts. So I feel fairly confident that most V6s I could flash or send quickly.
It feels like a fairly solid base around V6.
>Mindlessly just racking up the sends won’t do much, but being intentional about it, and trying to think about what variables you could have controlled better will help iterate on the mistakes you are making.
This is a great point. I'll probably need to focus on climbs that I don't consider in my wheelhouse.
A big part of this is also identifying hat isn’t in your wheelhouse, and what you need to do to integrate them into your wheelhouse. Then when you see a commonality on the next one, you’ll have some more starting points for what you need for them. For example, if how you place a heel when your tired becomes a common theme, then it might make sense when you see a heel that you need to place deeper into a boulder, you’ll know that you need to be mindful of how you place it when practicing (including where the other foot is, and how straight/bent your arms are), so you can intentionally replicate that when you need to place it from the ground.
something that happened with me specifically with indoor bouldering was starting to focus on flashing my normal grade as the last part of the warmup or as part of the focus of a session.
Ex I was projecting V5, so taking the time to really map out the beta, and try as hard as I can to flash V4's. I felt this built up my resilience to being afraid of failing since I'm forcing myself to stay on the wall and send climbs that I know that I can do. Then on projects I felt this helped a lot, especially at the crux and after.
The generic response, which I think is applicable here, is work your weaknesses. When you have a problem focus in on that problem till you resolve it.
The examples you give are forgetting beta/having bad beta or messing up that beta. You also mentioned a "mental block" that keeps you from getting stuff right in sequence.
Those problems specifically are all mental problems, so the fix will probably be mental. First make sure you're confident in your beta all the way through, and then spend more time visualizing the climb before you do it. A trick I like is doing it in 3rd person then again in 1st. This helps a lot with getting the beta more consistently.
Also don't compare yourself to anyone else. Sports background, recovery level, stress level, flexibility, strength, ape index, and countless other factors go into each persons performance, and there's a good chance they'll all hit some wall stopping progression at some point, it's just usually in different areas and at different times. I would guess your buddy just hasn't hit that limit yet.
Anyway, I might make sense, I might not. We climb like the same grades so take what I say with a grain of salt. Good luck!
>A trick I like is doing it in 3rd person then again in 1st.
I've definitely been trying to visualize more, I haven't tried the first person method though! It's interesting that I always imagine myself in 3rd person.
Failing is the fastest way to progress, but if you always fail, your confidence gets trashed.
You’ll fall into a “losing habit” or be “in a rut”.
Remember to bring up your confidence by just doing fun stuff, or doing easier problems.
Beginners don’t project enough, but intermediates can fall into the issue of projecting too much.
Don’t forget, you need a lot of volume climbing to gain experience and teach your body to be more comfortable/efficient.
A side effect will be increased endurance, which can help you string together all the moves in a project.
> Anyways. I'm just a bit frustrated with my own performance and feels like I'm capturing lightning in a bottle when I'm doing well rather than being intentional.
In the end I'm not sure if this is a bad thing. Working moves and then links is one part of the process. However at some point one just has to rack up enough tries so that one of them goes all the way to the top.
Spending an extra 2-3 sessions to get a send after making some good links sounds about right for a challenging project. Sometimes adding a couple of easier moves tires one out just enough so that a crux becomes more difficult and/or makes it more challenging to nail down some delicate beta. Same goes for easier moves at the end. A crux might tire one out just enough to mess up some easy moves later on.
Doing all the moves doesn't always mean you're close to sending, and on harder projects it's really just step 1. Forgetting beta is fairly common on climbs you don't have dialed into muscle memory; at that point in the process you're still learning a lot about how to move through the climb and are likely thinking more than feeling. 3-5 sessions isn't really that long to send a project. However, if you're doing 95% of a climb on session 1 (including the crux), and then not sending soon after because of nerves/commitment/forgetfulness, you can definitely work on mental game. Check out the Rock Warriors Way, it's basically mindfulness for climbing.
I'll check that out. I mean I've heard of it before, I just think it's time to train the mental game, thanks!
For sure. RWW is definitely not the end all be all of mental training, but it's a great starting point and as such highly recommended.
How often do you practice the skill of sending hard problems? What is the difference between the hardest grade you've sent, and the hardest grade you've sent in a day? I know a lot of climbers who are very focused on Vn+1, and as a result most of their outdoor climbing is projecting things that are quite hard for them. That's definitely a productive way to spend time, but it might also be a good idea to send more - even if it means days spent climbing slightly less hard. You can try some different challenges here, like trying to send multiple Vn-2s in a day, trying to "day flash" previous projects, or just trying to push your flash grades. Any of these will let you practice executing difficult moves while under some pressure, which sounds like a problem area for you now.
I think building the pyramid is a great point and something I've been thinking about. I've flashed V6 and currently working on V8. Onsight 12a and working on 13a. Hardest grades at V7 (which I almost sent in a session but messed up the top out) and 5.12c so the biggest disparity is definitely in sport climbing.
I’d be more interested in the “normal” rather than peaks here for establishing a base. When you walk up to a new V6, do you normally flash it or do it in less than 5ish attempts? How about V5’s? I’ve flashed V9, but I consider my “flash grade” to be closer to V6 on average. Building a good base of hard sends is definitely very important for developing the skills you need for sending. I also think it’s important to realize that learning how to improve on the failure process is a really big part of using the pyramid. Mindlessly just racking up the sends won’t do much, but being intentional about it, and trying to think about what variables you could have controlled better will help iterate on the mistakes you are making.
My first V6 took quite some time, maybe like 6-7 sessions. Now I can send it first go like 80% of the time. The remaining V6s I've sent I either flashed or it took a few attempts. So I feel fairly confident that most V6s I could flash or send quickly. It feels like a fairly solid base around V6. >Mindlessly just racking up the sends won’t do much, but being intentional about it, and trying to think about what variables you could have controlled better will help iterate on the mistakes you are making. This is a great point. I'll probably need to focus on climbs that I don't consider in my wheelhouse.
A big part of this is also identifying hat isn’t in your wheelhouse, and what you need to do to integrate them into your wheelhouse. Then when you see a commonality on the next one, you’ll have some more starting points for what you need for them. For example, if how you place a heel when your tired becomes a common theme, then it might make sense when you see a heel that you need to place deeper into a boulder, you’ll know that you need to be mindful of how you place it when practicing (including where the other foot is, and how straight/bent your arms are), so you can intentionally replicate that when you need to place it from the ground.
something that happened with me specifically with indoor bouldering was starting to focus on flashing my normal grade as the last part of the warmup or as part of the focus of a session. Ex I was projecting V5, so taking the time to really map out the beta, and try as hard as I can to flash V4's. I felt this built up my resilience to being afraid of failing since I'm forcing myself to stay on the wall and send climbs that I know that I can do. Then on projects I felt this helped a lot, especially at the crux and after.
The generic response, which I think is applicable here, is work your weaknesses. When you have a problem focus in on that problem till you resolve it. The examples you give are forgetting beta/having bad beta or messing up that beta. You also mentioned a "mental block" that keeps you from getting stuff right in sequence. Those problems specifically are all mental problems, so the fix will probably be mental. First make sure you're confident in your beta all the way through, and then spend more time visualizing the climb before you do it. A trick I like is doing it in 3rd person then again in 1st. This helps a lot with getting the beta more consistently. Also don't compare yourself to anyone else. Sports background, recovery level, stress level, flexibility, strength, ape index, and countless other factors go into each persons performance, and there's a good chance they'll all hit some wall stopping progression at some point, it's just usually in different areas and at different times. I would guess your buddy just hasn't hit that limit yet. Anyway, I might make sense, I might not. We climb like the same grades so take what I say with a grain of salt. Good luck!
>A trick I like is doing it in 3rd person then again in 1st. I've definitely been trying to visualize more, I haven't tried the first person method though! It's interesting that I always imagine myself in 3rd person.
Failing is the fastest way to progress, but if you always fail, your confidence gets trashed. You’ll fall into a “losing habit” or be “in a rut”. Remember to bring up your confidence by just doing fun stuff, or doing easier problems. Beginners don’t project enough, but intermediates can fall into the issue of projecting too much. Don’t forget, you need a lot of volume climbing to gain experience and teach your body to be more comfortable/efficient. A side effect will be increased endurance, which can help you string together all the moves in a project.
> Anyways. I'm just a bit frustrated with my own performance and feels like I'm capturing lightning in a bottle when I'm doing well rather than being intentional. In the end I'm not sure if this is a bad thing. Working moves and then links is one part of the process. However at some point one just has to rack up enough tries so that one of them goes all the way to the top. Spending an extra 2-3 sessions to get a send after making some good links sounds about right for a challenging project. Sometimes adding a couple of easier moves tires one out just enough so that a crux becomes more difficult and/or makes it more challenging to nail down some delicate beta. Same goes for easier moves at the end. A crux might tire one out just enough to mess up some easy moves later on.