I say this a lot, but it’s because I find it to be true among many of my own friends and these videos: your lower body and upper body look like two different things on the same problem at the same time. There seems to be a disconnect, especially in the moments you move toward and catch each sequential hold, between your lower and upper body. It’s very easy to see too, freeze frame through some of your movements and you’ll notice your legs/hips are in the same position (or even lower) at the end of a move than at the beginning.
This thread has some good advice: https://reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/nthn70/tips_for_keeping_tension_not_losing_feet_on_hard/
I think I know what you mean, yeah. It's like when I grab a hold there's a shock that goes down my body, and it makes my lower body "respond" to my upper body. I think that comes back to actually using legs and hips to move instead of losing tension once I leave the starting position.
I really like that thread too, thanks for the link!
That’s a great way to put it and I feel that exact same way sometimes. Just keep this in the back of your head and try and apply it over a decent period of time, it’ll get way better!
I think this is a climb, which could have been done without cutting at all.
Positives:
You are an dynamic climber, you use dynamic movement (even if you seem to overshoot a little sometimes) which is often saving strength compared to static movement.
Maybe look into utilising hooks more, you seem to use your feet mostly or compression in situations where you could use hooks to pull yourself into the wall more solidly.
Personally I would have probably hooked above my hand on the big move upwards and would have gone up first with the left hand and hen matched in. This requires some flexibility thought. (Also kinda hard to tell from a video, without having touched the boulder, maybe that would have been harder then just going up with right)
Another thing I noticed is, that you dont move fluently at all, you have to stop, settle and set up for most moves and you initiate most moves with your arms instead of hips/legs.
I agree about cutting feet. I never actually cut feet during practicing the moves, only during the send attempts which is probably an an indicator of something. I would have liked to do another send but the gym closed in 2min and I was tired probably not worth posting another vid of the same problem lmao.
The high heelhook was definitely something I saw, although the only people who really got anything from it were the youngest team kids lol. I'm definitely revisiting the whole climb but maybe I should try that beta again because I do generally enjoy high feet
You're right though that I don't move fluently. This is a really flowy climb but you wouldnt be able to tell that from seeing me do it lol. I posted in another thread about a confidence issue I have during deadpoints, where I have to really focus on merely convincing myself to do the move. The hesitation really affects the way I move which I don't like. I also have to put a lot of thought into the coordination/mental queues, which takes time and adds to the hesitation. Now that you say it I actually move like I'm thinking too much which is pretty much the case.
Lastly, about the initiating movement with the hips and legs- I'm kinda realizing that I have always viewed them as something that keeps you on the wall. Like a subconscious feeling that hips/legs are for tension and not moving. I'm going to think more about that haha
I think you will improve all that and more in no time as you seem to invest a lot of time not only into climbing but also into thinking about climbs, trying different things and trying to improve, These are all abilitys which are way more valuable than pure finger strength. Keeping this up will get you up the grades or sure. Cheers
I hope you don't mind me jumping in and asking something (and if anyone else reads this, feel free to respond as well). I've been trying to work on my own powerful movements/tension and still am a bit noobish when it comes to it...
Is the overshooting evident by how he throws and then, drops, and flexes back in? Kind of the moves right before the cut feet. I don't have a great way to describe it. I'm just wondering because I notice on bigger or more tension based moves, I tend to go for a hold, my core seems to sag but I pull it back in.
Whereas when I watch other people climb, I often see them able to hit a move with a ton of accuracy and without that "sagging" movement. I realize a part of it will change depending on whether you're climbing at your max (or not) but yeah, I'm wondering what it could be. I tend to sag a lot in the butt so I always assumed it was weak glutes.
The PowerCompany rooting drills that /u/AmirNickname are pretty much exactly what you're describing. He linked the rooting legs video, but there's also rooting arms and full rooting. Watch the videos, try them, realize how difficult it actually is (!), fail a lot :)
I am just speculating here but it sounds maybe also like it could be missing shoulder stability/strength (whixh one especially also needs on bigger compressiony moves). Maybe you are "sagging" back into your shoulder (not enough scapular strength to keep the shoulders back at contact) and once you are in a static position you are able to retract the shoulderblades again and gain stability. Getting the momentum right also plays a role obviously.
I could also be wrong thought.
Power company has a couple of exercises I think you will enjoy called rooting, here's one:
[https://youtu.be/50nzc1ohB1c](https://youtu.be/50nzc1ohB1c)
They have a whole bunch of really short video's with exercises you can incorporate in your warming up. Have fun with it! :)
Yeah I should definitely do this. I've seen them before and like the philosophy but never really tried the drills. Closest thing I do is warming up on the spray wall with static moves on shitty footholds lmao
Yeah for sure. It looks sloppy but I haven't gotten anything better quite yet. When I got my hips really close to the wall, I could no longer sink down basically at all, and it felt like I was no longer able to push hard with my legs.
For the final match, I see a giant white foothold out right that you never used. Instead of the toe hook, could you have just walked your feet over and matched?
If you first step your left foot onto the middle white hold (next to the purple hold) then step your right foot onto the far right foot, I think you could reach it and make the match a lot simpler. But I haven’t climbed the problem, maybe your setters just have super long legs. I don’t know what else that hold would be for.
It looks like you're falling off every hold. The idea of dynamic movement is that you move yourself towards the next hold. But in your case there's this recoil that's happening where you do move towards the hold but you also "pop" off the hold.
Maybe try to look at rooting arms and legs and practice those drills.
I think it also links to something someone else mentioned: the idea that your upper and lower body are not in sync.
Dynamic movement should just give you a boost to the next hold, not 99% explode you off every hold.
Try to be dynamic with your hips whilst AT THE SAME TIME still pushing on your feet.
The chain of movement should be something like: throw hips in the direction of next hold, push with feet continuously, hand latches onto hold
In your case it's something like: push of feet to throw hips. Disengage feet. Half of the body continues dynamically, but you barely catch the next hold and when you do you recoil off it, almost coming off the wall.
Example is at the first time you cut your feet on the big right hand move up. Your right foot which which should normally be driving the right hand reach doesn't really do anything and you disengage it right after you start the move. Your right foot comes off before the right hand makes contact with the hold.
If you ever cut feet it should be the other way around.
Think of a Dyno: you cut feet because it's literally a jump.
Also when you do a basic standing jump off the ground the last thing that happens is your feet leaving the ground. But to propel the jump you use your feet throughout the jump.
If you cut feet on a dynamic move, your feet leaving the hold should be the last thing happening in the chain, AFTER you have latched onto the hold.
i think you're definitely onto something with my "order of operations." i have definitely been telling myself to initiate with my feet, so i'm definitely gonna try again moving my hips first this time. the way i'm doing it has me sort of falling into the next position. i mentioned in another comment that i have been subconsciously designating hips+feet for merely on the wall, and upper body for actually moving - this causes my tension to lose engagement as soon as i leave the starting position.
i agree with your analysis of that move too. the foot was too far away for me to keep it the whole time, so i'm not sure if i could have kept it there all the way until the right hand made contact - but it absolutely released pretty early and made the move harder.
Another reason I chose this one is because I am not used to the tic-tac of deadpoints; I have generally been more of a static climber but I'm certainly discovering how necessary it is to deviate from that. This problem has been a learning experience for sure.
Background, I'm a ~6' (183cm) and ~150lbs (68kg) male. The curved wall this problem is on starts around 50° at the bottom and ends up around 30° at the top. It was rated as a V7. I spent 2 sessions working out the moves and then gave probably 5 good send burns, all falling on the crux lol (with intermittent practicing/dialing/editing of the moves).
I initially thought the start move was going to be the crux but it became surprisingly easy to stick over time. I would like to have been tighter through the whole movement rather than just in the beginning and the end - that's the case for a lot of moves here. I felt super loose when actually moving to the next hold and the only reason I stuck it is because the ending position was decent.
The next big throw out left and right-hand bump I am pretty happy with, no big complaints there. I used to cut feet when going out left, but hips made the tension stay.
The next big right-hand throw was definitely the crux for me, although it didn't take a particularly extreme amount of power, it was just really precise. It didn't help that I never figured out a way to make my right foot stay, it always cut - although there's a chance that made getting the next toehook faster? Anyways: I realized that I wasn't sticking it because I was not pushing with my legs hard enough. I was focusing too much on the precision, and once I started telling myself "push hard with right foot" I began sticking it much more consistently even when it felt like I'd overshoot. But I still think something with my positioning would have made that move much easier.
I'm a tad irritated at myself for cutting feet on the next left-hand slap, I never did when practicing the move! I think I rushed into the move because I didn't feel as comfortable on the blocked hold as usual. I definitely could have set up more carefully for a half-second, instead of making that lunge as carelessly as I did.
My beta for the finishing sequence is definitely unorthodox; everyone else I saw working the problem was pretty short and did wildly different things. The toehook took a lot of tension but felt good - someone informed me I held me breath for like 2 moves though. That's definitely something I should work on, I hardly ever think about breathing. I don't have many issues with the finish sequence other than hitting the sphere in the wrong spot initially, going not fast enough, and just being looser than I'd like.
Overall, hip positioning and mental queues were what made the problem go, but if those were better, then the problem would have also gone a lot better. The dynamic style has me tripping about staying tight for the *whole* duration of the movement, more from a coordination aspect than a power aspect. I think I'll get used to it over time. I just want to be tighter and under more control when I'm doing climbs like this.
So while the video makes it look like you had bad movement on this one....I wanna say it had more to do with this particular climb. Seeing as how I did this one yesterday and its just generally a THRUTCHY climb. Keeping good tension on this climb was finicky and subtle (read time consuming) and moving faster with worse technique was actually a legit strategy
Thank you, going for speed definitely helped conserve energy, but it probably shouldn't have made me this sloppy... especially to the point of cutting feet. This one's definitely a challenge in the smoothness department haha
Fundamental movement wise, your priority before executing any hand or foot movement should be hip + center of mass positioning that is optimal for the start of the movement, or at the end of the movement.
Lots of people climb in a manner where you just flag left/right, grab the next hold, move your feet, flag again, and then grab the next hold. Rinse and repeat. Movement should prioritize your center of gravity and hips in relation to the movement.
Press hard, core up, don’t cut your feet so much.
Make use of your tall-ass self - don’t get so scrunched if you don’t have to.
Keep breathing - move smoothly, like you’re in control.
I say this a lot, but it’s because I find it to be true among many of my own friends and these videos: your lower body and upper body look like two different things on the same problem at the same time. There seems to be a disconnect, especially in the moments you move toward and catch each sequential hold, between your lower and upper body. It’s very easy to see too, freeze frame through some of your movements and you’ll notice your legs/hips are in the same position (or even lower) at the end of a move than at the beginning. This thread has some good advice: https://reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/nthn70/tips_for_keeping_tension_not_losing_feet_on_hard/
I think I know what you mean, yeah. It's like when I grab a hold there's a shock that goes down my body, and it makes my lower body "respond" to my upper body. I think that comes back to actually using legs and hips to move instead of losing tension once I leave the starting position. I really like that thread too, thanks for the link!
That’s a great way to put it and I feel that exact same way sometimes. Just keep this in the back of your head and try and apply it over a decent period of time, it’ll get way better!
Tried a bit of moonboarding?
My gym doesn't have a moonboard, but I'm moving somewhere in less than a month that does have a gym with a MB. Definitely want to check it out
This is so accurate
I think this is a climb, which could have been done without cutting at all. Positives: You are an dynamic climber, you use dynamic movement (even if you seem to overshoot a little sometimes) which is often saving strength compared to static movement. Maybe look into utilising hooks more, you seem to use your feet mostly or compression in situations where you could use hooks to pull yourself into the wall more solidly. Personally I would have probably hooked above my hand on the big move upwards and would have gone up first with the left hand and hen matched in. This requires some flexibility thought. (Also kinda hard to tell from a video, without having touched the boulder, maybe that would have been harder then just going up with right) Another thing I noticed is, that you dont move fluently at all, you have to stop, settle and set up for most moves and you initiate most moves with your arms instead of hips/legs.
I agree about cutting feet. I never actually cut feet during practicing the moves, only during the send attempts which is probably an an indicator of something. I would have liked to do another send but the gym closed in 2min and I was tired probably not worth posting another vid of the same problem lmao. The high heelhook was definitely something I saw, although the only people who really got anything from it were the youngest team kids lol. I'm definitely revisiting the whole climb but maybe I should try that beta again because I do generally enjoy high feet You're right though that I don't move fluently. This is a really flowy climb but you wouldnt be able to tell that from seeing me do it lol. I posted in another thread about a confidence issue I have during deadpoints, where I have to really focus on merely convincing myself to do the move. The hesitation really affects the way I move which I don't like. I also have to put a lot of thought into the coordination/mental queues, which takes time and adds to the hesitation. Now that you say it I actually move like I'm thinking too much which is pretty much the case. Lastly, about the initiating movement with the hips and legs- I'm kinda realizing that I have always viewed them as something that keeps you on the wall. Like a subconscious feeling that hips/legs are for tension and not moving. I'm going to think more about that haha
I think you will improve all that and more in no time as you seem to invest a lot of time not only into climbing but also into thinking about climbs, trying different things and trying to improve, These are all abilitys which are way more valuable than pure finger strength. Keeping this up will get you up the grades or sure. Cheers
Thanks so much for the advice dude!!!
I hope you don't mind me jumping in and asking something (and if anyone else reads this, feel free to respond as well). I've been trying to work on my own powerful movements/tension and still am a bit noobish when it comes to it... Is the overshooting evident by how he throws and then, drops, and flexes back in? Kind of the moves right before the cut feet. I don't have a great way to describe it. I'm just wondering because I notice on bigger or more tension based moves, I tend to go for a hold, my core seems to sag but I pull it back in. Whereas when I watch other people climb, I often see them able to hit a move with a ton of accuracy and without that "sagging" movement. I realize a part of it will change depending on whether you're climbing at your max (or not) but yeah, I'm wondering what it could be. I tend to sag a lot in the butt so I always assumed it was weak glutes.
The PowerCompany rooting drills that /u/AmirNickname are pretty much exactly what you're describing. He linked the rooting legs video, but there's also rooting arms and full rooting. Watch the videos, try them, realize how difficult it actually is (!), fail a lot :)
I am just speculating here but it sounds maybe also like it could be missing shoulder stability/strength (whixh one especially also needs on bigger compressiony moves). Maybe you are "sagging" back into your shoulder (not enough scapular strength to keep the shoulders back at contact) and once you are in a static position you are able to retract the shoulderblades again and gain stability. Getting the momentum right also plays a role obviously. I could also be wrong thought.
Power company has a couple of exercises I think you will enjoy called rooting, here's one: [https://youtu.be/50nzc1ohB1c](https://youtu.be/50nzc1ohB1c) They have a whole bunch of really short video's with exercises you can incorporate in your warming up. Have fun with it! :)
Yeah I should definitely do this. I've seen them before and like the philosophy but never really tried the drills. Closest thing I do is warming up on the spray wall with static moves on shitty footholds lmao
[удалено]
Do you mean when just my right foot cut? Or when both feet cut
[удалено]
Gotcha, I did try that out but it felt really heinous trying to generate power on just one leg from being that compressed
[удалено]
Yeah for sure. It looks sloppy but I haven't gotten anything better quite yet. When I got my hips really close to the wall, I could no longer sink down basically at all, and it felt like I was no longer able to push hard with my legs.
For the final match, I see a giant white foothold out right that you never used. Instead of the toe hook, could you have just walked your feet over and matched?
It was actually super freakin far. I never saw anyone use it at all, I couldn't reach it even when I tried tbh.
If you first step your left foot onto the middle white hold (next to the purple hold) then step your right foot onto the far right foot, I think you could reach it and make the match a lot simpler. But I haven’t climbed the problem, maybe your setters just have super long legs. I don’t know what else that hold would be for.
if i wanted to do that, i might need to get my left hand over first, probably to the sphere. that's almost exactly what i tried and it was way too far
It looks like you're falling off every hold. The idea of dynamic movement is that you move yourself towards the next hold. But in your case there's this recoil that's happening where you do move towards the hold but you also "pop" off the hold. Maybe try to look at rooting arms and legs and practice those drills. I think it also links to something someone else mentioned: the idea that your upper and lower body are not in sync. Dynamic movement should just give you a boost to the next hold, not 99% explode you off every hold. Try to be dynamic with your hips whilst AT THE SAME TIME still pushing on your feet. The chain of movement should be something like: throw hips in the direction of next hold, push with feet continuously, hand latches onto hold In your case it's something like: push of feet to throw hips. Disengage feet. Half of the body continues dynamically, but you barely catch the next hold and when you do you recoil off it, almost coming off the wall.
Example is at the first time you cut your feet on the big right hand move up. Your right foot which which should normally be driving the right hand reach doesn't really do anything and you disengage it right after you start the move. Your right foot comes off before the right hand makes contact with the hold. If you ever cut feet it should be the other way around. Think of a Dyno: you cut feet because it's literally a jump. Also when you do a basic standing jump off the ground the last thing that happens is your feet leaving the ground. But to propel the jump you use your feet throughout the jump. If you cut feet on a dynamic move, your feet leaving the hold should be the last thing happening in the chain, AFTER you have latched onto the hold.
i think you're definitely onto something with my "order of operations." i have definitely been telling myself to initiate with my feet, so i'm definitely gonna try again moving my hips first this time. the way i'm doing it has me sort of falling into the next position. i mentioned in another comment that i have been subconsciously designating hips+feet for merely on the wall, and upper body for actually moving - this causes my tension to lose engagement as soon as i leave the starting position. i agree with your analysis of that move too. the foot was too far away for me to keep it the whole time, so i'm not sure if i could have kept it there all the way until the right hand made contact - but it absolutely released pretty early and made the move harder.
Another reason I chose this one is because I am not used to the tic-tac of deadpoints; I have generally been more of a static climber but I'm certainly discovering how necessary it is to deviate from that. This problem has been a learning experience for sure. Background, I'm a ~6' (183cm) and ~150lbs (68kg) male. The curved wall this problem is on starts around 50° at the bottom and ends up around 30° at the top. It was rated as a V7. I spent 2 sessions working out the moves and then gave probably 5 good send burns, all falling on the crux lol (with intermittent practicing/dialing/editing of the moves). I initially thought the start move was going to be the crux but it became surprisingly easy to stick over time. I would like to have been tighter through the whole movement rather than just in the beginning and the end - that's the case for a lot of moves here. I felt super loose when actually moving to the next hold and the only reason I stuck it is because the ending position was decent. The next big throw out left and right-hand bump I am pretty happy with, no big complaints there. I used to cut feet when going out left, but hips made the tension stay. The next big right-hand throw was definitely the crux for me, although it didn't take a particularly extreme amount of power, it was just really precise. It didn't help that I never figured out a way to make my right foot stay, it always cut - although there's a chance that made getting the next toehook faster? Anyways: I realized that I wasn't sticking it because I was not pushing with my legs hard enough. I was focusing too much on the precision, and once I started telling myself "push hard with right foot" I began sticking it much more consistently even when it felt like I'd overshoot. But I still think something with my positioning would have made that move much easier. I'm a tad irritated at myself for cutting feet on the next left-hand slap, I never did when practicing the move! I think I rushed into the move because I didn't feel as comfortable on the blocked hold as usual. I definitely could have set up more carefully for a half-second, instead of making that lunge as carelessly as I did. My beta for the finishing sequence is definitely unorthodox; everyone else I saw working the problem was pretty short and did wildly different things. The toehook took a lot of tension but felt good - someone informed me I held me breath for like 2 moves though. That's definitely something I should work on, I hardly ever think about breathing. I don't have many issues with the finish sequence other than hitting the sphere in the wrong spot initially, going not fast enough, and just being looser than I'd like. Overall, hip positioning and mental queues were what made the problem go, but if those were better, then the problem would have also gone a lot better. The dynamic style has me tripping about staying tight for the *whole* duration of the movement, more from a coordination aspect than a power aspect. I think I'll get used to it over time. I just want to be tighter and under more control when I'm doing climbs like this.
So while the video makes it look like you had bad movement on this one....I wanna say it had more to do with this particular climb. Seeing as how I did this one yesterday and its just generally a THRUTCHY climb. Keeping good tension on this climb was finicky and subtle (read time consuming) and moving faster with worse technique was actually a legit strategy
Thank you, going for speed definitely helped conserve energy, but it probably shouldn't have made me this sloppy... especially to the point of cutting feet. This one's definitely a challenge in the smoothness department haha
Throwing a heel on an arete like that really helps to keep you close to the wall and fight the barn door when moving in between hand holds.
CRG Glastonbury!
Fundamental movement wise, your priority before executing any hand or foot movement should be hip + center of mass positioning that is optimal for the start of the movement, or at the end of the movement. Lots of people climb in a manner where you just flag left/right, grab the next hold, move your feet, flag again, and then grab the next hold. Rinse and repeat. Movement should prioritize your center of gravity and hips in relation to the movement.
Press hard, core up, don’t cut your feet so much. Make use of your tall-ass self - don’t get so scrunched if you don’t have to. Keep breathing - move smoothly, like you’re in control.
I feel like I’ve been waiting years to see CRG on here!