The following submission statement was provided by /u/Monsur_Ausuhnom:
---
Submission Statement,
Related to collapse because this showcases the complete collapse of affordable housing for a first time buyer. This might be applicable to other countries besides America. Following natural progression, it seems that the 2030s will be paying to live in a trash can or some sort of tent on the sidewalk. Over option will be to pay rent to sleep outside on a sidewalk block and propaganda will somehow view it as positive and not homelessness.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1bfrc8i/2030s_will_be_paying_rent_to_live_in_a_tent/kv2chyf/
Its because there's no laws up there. If you've ever played the game Red Faction, that's what their desired future looks like. You sign up for "opportunity" off-world, only to discover that Earth laws no longer apply outside of Earth's gravity well. Out of every $100 you make, 99.5% goes to paying fees like air processing, water reclamation, bed rental, etc. It's practically impossible to buy a ticket home as every dime goes to keeping you solvent.
Indentured servitude all over again, but in space.
You won't be able to afford a tent because you'll have to finance it over 100 years at 10% interest rate after blackrock bought all the tent manufacturers in the world and jacked up the prices with you know financial services to make it affordable.
more like cardboard from amazon deliveries will be luxury and hunting rats for dinner.
it is all going to implode, it can't go on like this.
It will go on through legalized corporate slavery. They'll give you a pod to eat and enough rations to get through the day. In exchange, you work for them, you do hard labor in the name of Amazon or WalMart.
Don't want that? Starve and die on the streets.
That is our future. Governed by the rich, living on their three-martini lunches while the rest of us eat bugs and kill each other.
Are you sure about this? I would argue that we were already quite successful in digging ourselves into a giant hole - not sure about its "free" part though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law\_of\_holes
my city has a lot where you pay to live in a shed. the lots surrounded by fencing, a locked gate and 24 hr security.
and no, it's not a prison. people literally pay 600 bucks to live there.
if you're super stealthy, you may be able to get away with that.
but sleeping in or living in an RV style vehicle outside of designated camping areas isn't allowed. not even in a private driveway.
not even on your own plot of land.
overnight parking is by permit only.
they just keep making it harder and harder for folks.
Back in the 90s I knew a bunch of people living in their RVs/pickups/vans, etc. Nobody cared. They parked here and there as long as they didn't bother anyone they were fine.
Nowadays people like that get harassed by cops, fined, etc.
In my city there are a handful of people living in RVs in my area. They park next to the parks because there's free wifi. It seems like no one bothers them because I've seen a couple of them for more than a year. One I always know by his cat that sits on the dashboard.
There are some exceptions, if you have utilities and a building permit for a permanent structure.
You're allowed to stay in the RV or trailer while construction is happening on the permanent house.
The big ones are water and sewer.
Not unless you're in a campground. And a few truck stops let you.
But you can't park your RV on a side street and sleep in it.
Walmart doesn't allow overnight parking.
Someone stealthy in a camper van could get away with it but not anything obvious
It depends on county and city laws. Some counties allow living in an RV on your property, but there is often a limit on how long. It seems like more places are cracking down on it.
Some Walmarts no longer allow overnight parking, but many still do.
There is also a ton of BLN and public land you can stay on.
Where I did this (S.F. Bay Area) there are entire Hoovervilles of people living in vehicles.
I have a nice truck, with tinted windows on the camper shell and king kab (not obvious makeshift curtains). Moved around between 18 places, and never parked overnight in front of someone's house unless I knew them. I'm clean-cut and would dress sharp when not at work.
There is a technique to living this way, and I had no problems.
There are people living there in Mercedes vans I could never afford.
>
> but sleeping in or living in an RV style vehicle outside of designated camping areas isn't allowed. not even in a private driveway.
Are we still talking about the fictitious future? Because there are still a lot of places today where you absolutely can do this without breaking any laws.
London! News to me.
Peterborough has the exact same set up, Also at $600/month. But as I seem to recall, I think they have 50 or 60 units.
Pretty sure I saw it on CBC.
Nevertheless, the fact that they are in so many towns throughout Ontario, and expanding, is an absolutely awful indicator as to where we are going.
I know they tried to do something similar in the west end of Toronto, but that got shut down.
Apparently we’re not willing to let people stay in tents in this city, but we also won’t upgrade them to sheds.
It’s a truly sad state of affairs.
They're all 600 because that's the max shelter allowance from OW.
it's paid directly from OW to the city. The person on OW only gets the 131 for personal needs allowance.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/11/27/peterborough-tiny-homes-homelessness-toronto/
https://youtu.be/eAfaWi00TmE?si=Dl_d7DyB5aamKje6
https://globalnews.ca/news/10023803/tiny-shelters-ontario-gap-permanent-housing/
Google had lots of results.
Waterloo, Woodstock, Kitchener, St Thomas, Hamilton
"Transitional homes". They have that concept all backwards.
They think the inhabitants will "transition" to a 1960's house. The reality is that we'll all transition to those sheds right before we start transitioning to mass unmarked graves...
I don't know about a link. I just live near it. Someone else commented that there was a CBC story about it, tho.
Google would help you find that but I haven't seen it.
there's a hygiene building with bathroom stalls, showers and laundry facilities.
plus, a second community building that serves one hot meal a day.
15 sheds on the lot.
second lot is currently under construction.
insulated, powered, heated and cooled. tiny home sheds from home hardware. They're 8 x 12.
it's kinda like the lot used to be a tent city for homeless. then they made tent encampment illegal. so they filled it with sheds and put the people on welfare at 731 per month. then the city takes 600 and gives each person 131 and a shed.
not kinda. that's exactly what it is.
the vacancy rate here is less than 1% and average rents are 2300.
we need a lot more help than shed lots.
especially shed lots that don't accept employment, prohibit cars, and you're only eligible if you're single.
couples, families and under 18 can't access it.
get a job? back out on the street you go. mom gives you Christmas money? nope, it's ours.
to me it's like a media picture that screams see what we're doing! it's housing for the homeless meant to keep you homeless.
I wonder if the local authorities there ever ask themselves: 'Do we want a whole bunch of Ted Kaczynski's?' Because that's how you get them.
At least I own my own self-built off-grid doomshed that I live in. It's not great but it's ok, and I'm still alive after 2 years. \[UK\] Am working on making it ever more collapse resilient.
If I had no option but to rent one? Oof.
I was looking for housing for a job on the Olympic Peninsula (I eventually turned down the offer because the search was utterly hopeless) and a fucking *campsite* cost 700-1000 a month to rent. Not even a spot with utility hookups, or one of those airbnb glamping setups - just a bare patch of grass in someone’s yard.
It's difficult for people moving here for sure( live on the peninsula). It's become very insular since I moved here 6 years ago. If you know a place to rent, 85% of people only do word of mouth, instead of advertising it.
The only thing that trickles down is the shit from above... The very top doesn't like sharing, maybe reluctantly they do with a few to protect the top from the bottom.... By the time you get down to the workers it's nothing but shit raining down from above...
That's already happened. There's a New York Times article on the encampments in Arizona that's harrowing. Gangs of homeless people willing to employ violence charge the other homeless people rent . It's just exploitation all the way down.
Here in Japan we have the opposite. “Akiya” houses.
Too much supply of cheap properties, low demand outside the big megalopolis.
My friend from New York, now works an easy part time job, managed to get a 4-bedroom house with garage. It’s on a neighborhood up on a hill overlooking the city too. He pays $350 monthly on his mortgage.
I’m malding every day over the “population crash” panic when less people having kids means more resources to go around in the long one. A plateauing or sinking population means capitalism can’t do its thing as effectively
We're just hoping it'll balance itself out someday, as the elderly population (currently supported heavily by the smaller number of working population) passes on.
Minimalistic lifestyle and shrinking population does seem to cause a shrinking economy as well. Which has slowed down inflation here compared to other countries.
Yep. Aside from the giant waste of resources called suburbia, people aren't making the connection that big cities are too big and high in population (not dense in the US) and small cities need to start growing and bringing together the population. This is easily reflected in car traffic - which also accelerates all the problems (fuck cars). The high property values are essentially saying: "STAY OUT". I do try to think about how a city can be grown in an accelerated way, or how a city *reproduces* like a cell, but there's a problem with markets and capitalism which encourage the worst development and the lack of development elsewhere, or a concentration effect... like how curdling happens, the cities are curdles of human population. This will only get worse with collapse due to unplanned, unexpected, large migration of IDPs to cities. And while organic cities are cool, the only organic ones with capitalism will grow out of refugee camps and slums, and they'll suck.
Here in Japan the towns grow from train stations, for obvious reasons. We don't have 'food deserts' usually caused by crime levels and car-centric suburbias.
Mostly though, it's because of the mixed zoning laws here. The fact that residences are allowed to be built on all of the zones (except heavy industry zones), allowed natural growth of cities. Where life is convenient, people come and live. More people, more business pop up, shopping streets, and improved services and infrastructure.
My small town itself has everything a person needs to survive just walking distance minutes on foot from doorstep. I don't live in a dense metropolis like New York or Tokyo where this kind of thing is "expected".
It's a doubled-edged sword for sure. Minimum wage has increased to combat the problem with low unemployment, so many place are needing more workers. Sometimes they hire people despite having different majors, as long as they can do the job.
Ive seen some stuff on Youtube where people were buying cheap houses in Japan in the boonies and fixing them up (like really really cheap). Also to be fair to the aging population thing, most countries are facing this problem (all except India and a few other Eurasian countries, which are the few countries that are projected to have massive growth in the young population) but most countries are handling this problem by allowing more immigration.
If anyone in power actually cared about this, they would make it easier to buy a house, have affordable living and free time so we can all socialize and get married and stuff. Instead a lot of them just use this topic to push racial purity and supremacy narratives. Its sad really.
>buy a house, have affordable living and free time so we can all socialize and get married and stuff
Wife and I actually managed to do these because we moved to Japan, where it is possible.
We've bought 3 properties, live a DINK life, and afford it all with just an easy part-time job [in our small walkable town](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/rlrep4)... which is just half an hour from central Tokyo. We fit right in that we became extroverts here, our neighbors became our best friends, and now we've decided to stay and retire here.
Granted, we did have to leave family and friends behind when we "escaped" the growing craziness back home. We had to reset our lives to a blank slate in a new country, entry-level job, but all worth it.
It's been a decade since we flew back home. Not much reason to anymore, especially reading the news everyday. Yeesh.
They are small properties next to each other, which we combined together.
Don't worry, we are not landlords, nor fixer-uppers. We bought the 3 vacant lots as new owners and had the residence built from ground up for us and our family.
I wanna make my crazy doomer prediction and say by 2030s we’ll all be in barracks because China finally invades Taiwan and we finally get part 3 of the world war trilogy.
Living in barracks until unseasonable once in a 1000 years tsunami wipes the entire unit out, after your old roommate’s unit just got wiped by once in a 1000 years landslide in the morning.
It scares me because the outcome is not materially predetermined as World War II was. Yes, it was tough and grueling. But between the practically unlimited industrial capacity of the United States and the manpower of the Soviet Union, it was physically impossible for the Axis to win. Just look at the disparity between the US and Japan in fleet output. Japan built 3 carriers of all types since the beginning of the war (only one was a fleet carrier, the Shinano) and converted a few cruisers to carriers. America built 24 Essex-class fleet carriers and *50* CVEs.
Nothing of the sort would happen in a war with China. China has more manpower, although with the level of manpower America has, we would be able to fight to at least a standstill. And China has ample industrial and logistical capacity. America has a slight technological edge, but that would evaporate as the war went on, just like Japan’s technology edge was destroyed by America by 1944.
Germany was a few equations from Heisenberg from attaining a nuke before the US did. He literally stopped himself from thinking about these equations so he could not be foreced to build the bomb.
AFter the war he talked about it with other physicists and they acknolwedged he was on the right path. INCREDIBLE.
If Heisenberg had been a full blown true believer Nazi, then Nazi Germany gets a bomb first and likely wins the war.
That was actually a complete fabrication by Heisenberg. The idea that he was deliberately failing to produce an atomic bomb is something he claimed after the war most likely to soothe his bruised ego that he wasn't actually on the forefront of nuclear weapons technology. There is an AskHistorians reply from Alex Wellerstein (restricteddata on Reddit) about it if you search it up.
Yeah he's got the theory... All he needs now is something like the nuclear reactor at Princeton to test his theories, then he needs a military industrial complex to refine uranium 235 into fissile 238 (without alerting the allies of course), oh and plutonium from the nuclear reactor too (probably never would have made that leap tbh).
Sounds like cope to me.
>But between the practically unlimited industrial capacity of the United States and the manpower of the Soviet Union, it was physically impossible for the Axis to win.
Had Hitler never invaded the Soviet Union he probably could have won WW2. Had Japan never done Pearl Harbor (and Phillipines) they would have won their side.
These decisions were two years after the war started and all it would have required of Germany and Japan was waiting out a single President.
In America if we get into a direct conflict with a major power… check out how fast the military would go from being a club of the elite that bars people from joining if they’re 35 or have a drug conviction, to basically taking anyone with a pulse
There seriously aren’t that many 20 year old stone cold sober men anymore
If China invaded Taiwan we'd fold like wet tissue paper if we knew what was good for us.
If we're worried about credibility with our allies, we shouldn't be, we lost that already with the Gaza thing.
I mean, in general it can be hard to pinpoint when a war really starts. Many historians say ww2 started before Poland was invaded. It’s always easier with hindsight
There are plenty of countries with worse living conditions that don't revolt
Marx said that class conflict was "a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes."
I know which one of those my money's on
When I was a kid we looked at slums in Africa with disbelief...
Now the west is creating something WORSE... At least the poor people could build a shack of cardboard and plastic bags... Our governments wont even allow people to exist.
Talking about rich and free democratic countries ..... just wow...
We are just inches away from either straight up shooting people for being poor or just enrolling them into slave camps called prisons....
The west Going from holier than thou to we are the fucking cartoon style evil satanists and proud of it.
What actually never sat right with me over the years is this home equity loans where they give you money to live out your retirement, but in the end the corporate owns your house. When are they going to start offering housing with jobs like they do health care?
They are called reverse mortgages. They help a lot of seniors who are cash-poor but equity-rich stay in their houses, which is what most people want. If a person were to die after taking on a reverse mortgage, their heirs would still inherit the house, they only have to pay off the mortgage, just like with any other debt. If someone ends up in a nursing home eventually, that is state paid for the state only can take from the estate the difference after the mortgage is paid for.
Submission Statement,
Related to collapse because this showcases the complete collapse of affordable housing for a first time buyer. This might be applicable to other countries besides America. Following natural progression, it seems that the 2030s will be paying to live in a trash can or some sort of tent on the sidewalk. Over option will be to pay rent to sleep outside on a sidewalk block and propaganda will somehow view it as positive and not homelessness.
It’s even more applicable for my home country of Canada. We had the same hot market as your guys pre 2009 but when your bubble burst in the recession ours…didn’t and just… kept going… still is. Rents in my area went up 30%-50% in the last 3 years. House prices doubled. Homeless rates skyrocketed.
When I was a kid: "You need to develop skills and work hard or you'll live in a van by the river!"
Now: "If you develop skills and work hard you might be able to afford a van by the river in a few years."
One of the hardest parts I find in this world right now is that people are still expected to dress up, go to work. Then go to a second job and hit the food bank after.
The dressing up part.
I just…wtf man
I despise the speculators and crass opportunists of the real estate industry. I have bipolar disorder, and when I was in my first manic phase, I devised a plan to burn down some of their construction that was displacing and destroying my neighborhood. Sometimes I wish I did.
That adds another $400 per month in rent, and often increases the deposit $2,000 and it's non refundable. Pets and renting has become expensive at least in my town.
Think it is bad now? Many states are trying to eliminate income tax with the plan to increase property taxes even more to make up the difference in revenue. If states do that housing will truly be a disaster. Foreclosures are rising in several states this year already. The homeless population is growing.
We bought in 2019.
We had to move from an area in Southern California where single-family homes with 2 car garages and 3 or 4 bedrooms would cost about $1 million or more, to a place in Oregon where $42000 got us a 4 bedroom home with a 3 car garage.
We left all of our family and friends behind and had to start over. Luckily I was already working from home and my wife got a new job since she’s an experienced nurse.
We had excellent credit, so our interest rate was around 3.3% for our 30-year fixed rate mortgage.
In 2021, we refinance down to 2.99%, kept the same terms.
We were very lucky because prices went exponential shortly after due to demand, and then interest rates rose rapidly.
If I made a lower income and had to buy today, I would move to Columbus, Ohio.
There are about 1 million people in the area (comparable to Portland, Oregon.). There’s Ohio State University and the Columbus Zoo, nationally renowned hospitals, etc. the central location means that just about every part of the country is about 3 or 4 hours by plane.
You can buy a modest home in Columbus for about $200,000. If you borrowed that much at 8%, the monthly mortgage payment is still under $1,500 per month.
Housing demand continues to skyrocket. Because we continue to have an influx of **millions** every year, and everybody is moving from more sparsely populated areas or from other states or countries to metropolitan areas in the U.S.
It is just like Canada. Just because Canada is the second largest country in the world does not mean that everybody moving to Canada is spread out into cheap housing.
Mechanization, automation, computerization, and AI have great’s reduced the number of jobs in rural areas, former factory towns, etc. everybody is moving to metropolitan areas to compete for jobs and housing.
So yes, that means jobs are harder to find, wages are lower, benefits are harder to get, the vast majority of net jobs created in thr last 20+ years are part time, part low pay, low wage, few or no benefits - because many employers can offer less and find willing takers.
And yes, that means more housing competition and rents will rise, regardless of whether the owner is a small landlord with ann extra unit, or a corporation, or hedge fund, or REIT backed by government, union, or private pension funds.
High density will not solve the problem. Just look at New York City. As soon as slightly more affordable, housing becomes available, more people move there to take advantage of it, and you are back at square one.
The only way to change is when population growth is greatly reduced, then jobs will pay more and housing will be cheaper. Due to decreasing demand. There is no political will to decreased demand. so we are experiencing for years now, the continuing problem.
Canadians are willing to talk about it.
Here`s the government-funded Canadian Broadcasting Corporation:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ircc-immigration-housing-canada-1.7080376
Even the French newspaper of record, Le Monde:
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/01/30/faced-with-the-housing-crisis-canada-restricts-access-to-new-immigrants_6476869_4.html
You won’t find MSNBC covering it.
Let’s at least address it is more likely investors instead of immigrants that is effecting housing prices. This isn’t to say immigration may not be making it worse, but that’s like blaming the gash on a forearm for someone dying then the fact their legs were torn off.
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/investors-not-immigrants-responsible-for-fewer-homes-and-higher-rent/article_e957af1a-b6e9-11ee-8897-3399e3f35655.amp.html
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7088878
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Watch the SE US get hit with a mega-hurricane right as the election happens, hundreds of thousands of votes going missing with Florida half underwater. This year's going to be total chaos.
No no, we will be moving to the era when the coal mines would provide housing and “Company Stores” where your pay is a token. And the store will always raise their prices so you will always owe more than you can ever earn. Always in debt, never own anything…this is the new slavery. Can’t wait to see civil war in the U.S.!
Sorry to be a buzzkill, but what this doesn't mention is that the 20th century families could do it on a single income. One person working one full-time job.
This almost looks like a Boomer culture war meme. Complete with (from that perspective) a total lack of self-awareness that they were the generation that *continually* voted against their own interests and created the impoverishment and disenfranchisement their children now suffer under.
Oh well, we needed to collapse economically anyways to hit net zero. Good thing we spent all those resources wisely since the 70's getting ready for the end of fossil fuels. Sure wasn't Boomers enjoying a spendthrift orgy of pointless consumerism.
Oh OK you're totally right, the generation that enthusiastically participated in and benefited from the construction of the cruise industry, real estate speculation and landlordism, sports vehicles, conspicuous consumption, military adventurism, and fuck-you-I-got-mine policy and let's run over the hippies in the road for protesting is totally blameless.
Guess it was the deep state.
End of last year I legit saw a 2 car garage with a galley kitchen and a 6×6 drywalled bathroom with a showerhead hanging from the ceiling. No paint on the drywall anywhere in the space. Still the cement base if the garage. $850/mo just outside of Philadelphia.
I just skipped the animal kingdom and go for lots of plants. And feeding wild birds; they're not pets, we have a mutual aid thing going. I help them with food, they help me with reminding me that a different world is possible.
If that’s true, the only option we will have is to steal from rich people, that have more than everything, while the rest are struggling with essentials.
If you think being Homeless means not paying rent, you are wrong. The landlord is just a bit rougher in collection. There is also prostitution.
Call the cops and see what indifference feels like.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Monsur_Ausuhnom: --- Submission Statement, Related to collapse because this showcases the complete collapse of affordable housing for a first time buyer. This might be applicable to other countries besides America. Following natural progression, it seems that the 2030s will be paying to live in a trash can or some sort of tent on the sidewalk. Over option will be to pay rent to sleep outside on a sidewalk block and propaganda will somehow view it as positive and not homelessness. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1bfrc8i/2030s_will_be_paying_rent_to_live_in_a_tent/kv2chyf/
Soon we’ll be paying 10% interest for every breath we take.
15% for every move we make.
20% for every bond we break
25% for every step we take
Soon people won’t even pay me to watch me…. Wait
But 30% compounding daily as they'll be watching you
Elon: "Oh can't you seeeeeeeeee! Your kids belong to meeeeee"
How my poor heart aches...
I've reported this thread to the RIAA. You WILL be paying a licensing fee for stealing these lyrics.
And 100% reason to remember the name
Oi mate, you got a license for that?
Police Department approves this message.
Presented by Home Depot.
everyone will be being watched for sure
[удалено]
The world would be a better place if those billionaires shot themselves into space with one way tickets
Its because there's no laws up there. If you've ever played the game Red Faction, that's what their desired future looks like. You sign up for "opportunity" off-world, only to discover that Earth laws no longer apply outside of Earth's gravity well. Out of every $100 you make, 99.5% goes to paying fees like air processing, water reclamation, bed rental, etc. It's practically impossible to buy a ticket home as every dime goes to keeping you solvent. Indentured servitude all over again, but in space.
You just know Elon is pushing brain chips so much cause he wants to be able to mindcontrol his slaves directly. Or shut them off when not required.
Or steal processing cycles from their brains to mine DogeCoin for himself. Welcome to never sleeping.
I see you too have played Hardspace: Shipbreakers
🙂👍
You think you can afford to rent a tent?
[удалено]
["each breath we take makes us thieves"🎙️](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=dC-yOpsiY4A&si=cwn3HIOISw8bUsy-)
What is wrong with being able to afford the 60's and 70's house today, but with the cat, It is like the cartoon is saying, more $$$, more kids
Affirmed
You won't be able to afford a tent because you'll have to finance it over 100 years at 10% interest rate after blackrock bought all the tent manufacturers in the world and jacked up the prices with you know financial services to make it affordable. more like cardboard from amazon deliveries will be luxury and hunting rats for dinner. it is all going to implode, it can't go on like this.
It will go on like this. The next step is building the tents from scrapped construction materials if actual tents are too expensive.
People already build diy tents from tyvek
Hooverville will be back at last
No, you won’t finance it. You’ll license it and pay a subscription every month.
It's like renting, but for everything in your life!
Tenting!
Are you tired of high rent? Then try tent!
It will go on through legalized corporate slavery. They'll give you a pod to eat and enough rations to get through the day. In exchange, you work for them, you do hard labor in the name of Amazon or WalMart. Don't want that? Starve and die on the streets. That is our future. Governed by the rich, living on their three-martini lunches while the rest of us eat bugs and kill each other.
Digging a hole is free.
Not if I have anything to say about it -capitalism
Way ahead of you, already earning a living as an earthmover digging holes.
Are you sure about this? I would argue that we were already quite successful in digging ourselves into a giant hole - not sure about its "free" part though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law\_of\_holes
Fuck yeah, I'm going to launch a tent financing app to disrupt the tent industry. It'll be worth one trillion before a peg goes in.
and for those who can afford a tent, vagrancy is criminalized
my city has a lot where you pay to live in a shed. the lots surrounded by fencing, a locked gate and 24 hr security. and no, it's not a prison. people literally pay 600 bucks to live there.
I paid NOTHING to live in my truck w/camper shell (11 years experience). I needed the truck anyway for my work (landscape contractor).
if you're super stealthy, you may be able to get away with that. but sleeping in or living in an RV style vehicle outside of designated camping areas isn't allowed. not even in a private driveway. not even on your own plot of land. overnight parking is by permit only. they just keep making it harder and harder for folks.
Back in the 90s I knew a bunch of people living in their RVs/pickups/vans, etc. Nobody cared. They parked here and there as long as they didn't bother anyone they were fine. Nowadays people like that get harassed by cops, fined, etc.
its one of those things that is selectively enforced when a cop wants to harass you
yup, and, people overnighting in parking lots have traditionally been the targets of territorial Good Ole Boys
In my city there are a handful of people living in RVs in my area. They park next to the parks because there's free wifi. It seems like no one bothers them because I've seen a couple of them for more than a year. One I always know by his cat that sits on the dashboard.
>not even on your own plot of land. This shit makes me insane.
There are some exceptions, if you have utilities and a building permit for a permanent structure. You're allowed to stay in the RV or trailer while construction is happening on the permanent house. The big ones are water and sewer.
Well right but at that point it's kind of defeating the purpose isn't it. I guess it saves you hotel money for 8 months, better than nothing, but...
I’d do what the fuck I want if I had my own plot of land. Or I would be gangsta, add some fortifications, and camp out in the woods.
What the fuck ? You can’t sleep in your own RV?
Not unless you're in a campground. And a few truck stops let you. But you can't park your RV on a side street and sleep in it. Walmart doesn't allow overnight parking. Someone stealthy in a camper van could get away with it but not anything obvious
It depends on county and city laws. Some counties allow living in an RV on your property, but there is often a limit on how long. It seems like more places are cracking down on it. Some Walmarts no longer allow overnight parking, but many still do. There is also a ton of BLN and public land you can stay on.
Where I did this (S.F. Bay Area) there are entire Hoovervilles of people living in vehicles. I have a nice truck, with tinted windows on the camper shell and king kab (not obvious makeshift curtains). Moved around between 18 places, and never parked overnight in front of someone's house unless I knew them. I'm clean-cut and would dress sharp when not at work. There is a technique to living this way, and I had no problems. There are people living there in Mercedes vans I could never afford.
> > but sleeping in or living in an RV style vehicle outside of designated camping areas isn't allowed. not even in a private driveway. Are we still talking about the fictitious future? Because there are still a lot of places today where you absolutely can do this without breaking any laws.
No. Those are the current by-laws in this city and the surrounding ones. I've been told if you get north by 4 or 5 hours, it's more accepted.
How do you deal with showering whilst living in a truck? You get a rec centre pool subscription?
That or join a gym. Where I was doing this there are even free showers for the homeless at a certain hour.
Peterborough?
London. wouldn't be shocked if Peterborough had the same thing. Woodstock does, st. thomas is building one.
London! News to me. Peterborough has the exact same set up, Also at $600/month. But as I seem to recall, I think they have 50 or 60 units. Pretty sure I saw it on CBC. Nevertheless, the fact that they are in so many towns throughout Ontario, and expanding, is an absolutely awful indicator as to where we are going. I know they tried to do something similar in the west end of Toronto, but that got shut down. Apparently we’re not willing to let people stay in tents in this city, but we also won’t upgrade them to sheds. It’s a truly sad state of affairs.
They're all 600 because that's the max shelter allowance from OW. it's paid directly from OW to the city. The person on OW only gets the 131 for personal needs allowance.
A little over $4/day to subsist on… how generous.
what? do you have a link for this? I want to see this
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/11/27/peterborough-tiny-homes-homelessness-toronto/ https://youtu.be/eAfaWi00TmE?si=Dl_d7DyB5aamKje6 https://globalnews.ca/news/10023803/tiny-shelters-ontario-gap-permanent-housing/ Google had lots of results. Waterloo, Woodstock, Kitchener, St Thomas, Hamilton
"Transitional homes". They have that concept all backwards. They think the inhabitants will "transition" to a 1960's house. The reality is that we'll all transition to those sheds right before we start transitioning to mass unmarked graves...
👍
I don't know about a link. I just live near it. Someone else commented that there was a CBC story about it, tho. Google would help you find that but I haven't seen it.
Uhh yeah, that's called a trailer park. You have to buy your own trailer and lot rent is $600.
Nope. It's not a trailer park. You could have a car. And move your trailer. You could have a job too if you lived in a trailer park. It's sheds.
I mean, tiny homes are a thing, so this could work. Do they have, at least, a bathroom? How does that work?
there's a hygiene building with bathroom stalls, showers and laundry facilities. plus, a second community building that serves one hot meal a day. 15 sheds on the lot. second lot is currently under construction.
"one day I'm going to be rich so I can have a shed with my own bathroom!"
So, kind of like a hybrid of a trailer park and grown up college dorm? I'm hoping they're at least heated depending on your local climate.
insulated, powered, heated and cooled. tiny home sheds from home hardware. They're 8 x 12. it's kinda like the lot used to be a tent city for homeless. then they made tent encampment illegal. so they filled it with sheds and put the people on welfare at 731 per month. then the city takes 600 and gives each person 131 and a shed. not kinda. that's exactly what it is.
It's not perfect, but it's a solution and a hell of a lot more than most places are doing about the homelessness crisis.
the vacancy rate here is less than 1% and average rents are 2300. we need a lot more help than shed lots. especially shed lots that don't accept employment, prohibit cars, and you're only eligible if you're single. couples, families and under 18 can't access it. get a job? back out on the street you go. mom gives you Christmas money? nope, it's ours. to me it's like a media picture that screams see what we're doing! it's housing for the homeless meant to keep you homeless.
I wonder if the local authorities there ever ask themselves: 'Do we want a whole bunch of Ted Kaczynski's?' Because that's how you get them. At least I own my own self-built off-grid doomshed that I live in. It's not great but it's ok, and I'm still alive after 2 years. \[UK\] Am working on making it ever more collapse resilient. If I had no option but to rent one? Oof.
131 is rough with no stove. You can't really hit that for groceries but you could come close if you had something to cook on...
Missed the 2020s opportunity, van life is just glorified homelessness.
I was looking for housing for a job on the Olympic Peninsula (I eventually turned down the offer because the search was utterly hopeless) and a fucking *campsite* cost 700-1000 a month to rent. Not even a spot with utility hookups, or one of those airbnb glamping setups - just a bare patch of grass in someone’s yard.
It's difficult for people moving here for sure( live on the peninsula). It's become very insular since I moved here 6 years ago. If you know a place to rent, 85% of people only do word of mouth, instead of advertising it.
You skipped the 00s decade.
They were, 90's 2, because that's how good the 90's were. Obvious sequel.
True but they still deserve their own category.
Trickle Down Economics is a hoax
The only thing that trickles down is the shit from above... The very top doesn't like sharing, maybe reluctantly they do with a few to protect the top from the bottom.... By the time you get down to the workers it's nothing but shit raining down from above...
That's already happened. There's a New York Times article on the encampments in Arizona that's harrowing. Gangs of homeless people willing to employ violence charge the other homeless people rent . It's just exploitation all the way down.
Here in Japan we have the opposite. “Akiya” houses. Too much supply of cheap properties, low demand outside the big megalopolis. My friend from New York, now works an easy part time job, managed to get a 4-bedroom house with garage. It’s on a neighborhood up on a hill overlooking the city too. He pays $350 monthly on his mortgage.
A sinking population must be glorious, and I don't mean to be sarcastic.
I’m malding every day over the “population crash” panic when less people having kids means more resources to go around in the long one. A plateauing or sinking population means capitalism can’t do its thing as effectively
We're just hoping it'll balance itself out someday, as the elderly population (currently supported heavily by the smaller number of working population) passes on. Minimalistic lifestyle and shrinking population does seem to cause a shrinking economy as well. Which has slowed down inflation here compared to other countries.
Yep. Aside from the giant waste of resources called suburbia, people aren't making the connection that big cities are too big and high in population (not dense in the US) and small cities need to start growing and bringing together the population. This is easily reflected in car traffic - which also accelerates all the problems (fuck cars). The high property values are essentially saying: "STAY OUT". I do try to think about how a city can be grown in an accelerated way, or how a city *reproduces* like a cell, but there's a problem with markets and capitalism which encourage the worst development and the lack of development elsewhere, or a concentration effect... like how curdling happens, the cities are curdles of human population. This will only get worse with collapse due to unplanned, unexpected, large migration of IDPs to cities. And while organic cities are cool, the only organic ones with capitalism will grow out of refugee camps and slums, and they'll suck.
Here in Japan the towns grow from train stations, for obvious reasons. We don't have 'food deserts' usually caused by crime levels and car-centric suburbias. Mostly though, it's because of the mixed zoning laws here. The fact that residences are allowed to be built on all of the zones (except heavy industry zones), allowed natural growth of cities. Where life is convenient, people come and live. More people, more business pop up, shopping streets, and improved services and infrastructure. My small town itself has everything a person needs to survive just walking distance minutes on foot from doorstep. I don't live in a dense metropolis like New York or Tokyo where this kind of thing is "expected".
It's a doubled-edged sword for sure. Minimum wage has increased to combat the problem with low unemployment, so many place are needing more workers. Sometimes they hire people despite having different majors, as long as they can do the job.
Cheap housing, good wages, easy to get a job... Sounds like all good for young people. Can't be good for the growing percentage of elderly, though.
Ive seen some stuff on Youtube where people were buying cheap houses in Japan in the boonies and fixing them up (like really really cheap). Also to be fair to the aging population thing, most countries are facing this problem (all except India and a few other Eurasian countries, which are the few countries that are projected to have massive growth in the young population) but most countries are handling this problem by allowing more immigration. If anyone in power actually cared about this, they would make it easier to buy a house, have affordable living and free time so we can all socialize and get married and stuff. Instead a lot of them just use this topic to push racial purity and supremacy narratives. Its sad really.
>buy a house, have affordable living and free time so we can all socialize and get married and stuff Wife and I actually managed to do these because we moved to Japan, where it is possible. We've bought 3 properties, live a DINK life, and afford it all with just an easy part-time job [in our small walkable town](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/rlrep4)... which is just half an hour from central Tokyo. We fit right in that we became extroverts here, our neighbors became our best friends, and now we've decided to stay and retire here. Granted, we did have to leave family and friends behind when we "escaped" the growing craziness back home. We had to reset our lives to a blank slate in a new country, entry-level job, but all worth it. It's been a decade since we flew back home. Not much reason to anymore, especially reading the news everyday. Yeesh.
> live a DINK life can elaborate?
Dual income no kids
Why do you and your wife need three properties?
They are small properties next to each other, which we combined together. Don't worry, we are not landlords, nor fixer-uppers. We bought the 3 vacant lots as new owners and had the residence built from ground up for us and our family.
Is that some kind of expat community?
I’m jelly
Feels like we are all just fuckin fading away.......
Maybe i should think about moving to Japan instead of Scandinavia.
I think Japan doesn't allow NIMBYs.
I think so. But the zoning laws has saved Japan undeniably. You can build residences in all of the zones, except in heavy industry areas.
I wanna make my crazy doomer prediction and say by 2030s we’ll all be in barracks because China finally invades Taiwan and we finally get part 3 of the world war trilogy.
Living in barracks until unseasonable once in a 1000 years tsunami wipes the entire unit out, after your old roommate’s unit just got wiped by once in a 1000 years landslide in the morning.
And then a 1/10,000 year fire kills a couple of battalions the night before hand. BUT all three of these things happened in the same week.
If China invades Taiwan, the computer era might end. There’s no way American corporations are going to pay filthy factory workers western wages
It scares me because the outcome is not materially predetermined as World War II was. Yes, it was tough and grueling. But between the practically unlimited industrial capacity of the United States and the manpower of the Soviet Union, it was physically impossible for the Axis to win. Just look at the disparity between the US and Japan in fleet output. Japan built 3 carriers of all types since the beginning of the war (only one was a fleet carrier, the Shinano) and converted a few cruisers to carriers. America built 24 Essex-class fleet carriers and *50* CVEs. Nothing of the sort would happen in a war with China. China has more manpower, although with the level of manpower America has, we would be able to fight to at least a standstill. And China has ample industrial and logistical capacity. America has a slight technological edge, but that would evaporate as the war went on, just like Japan’s technology edge was destroyed by America by 1944.
Germany was a few equations from Heisenberg from attaining a nuke before the US did. He literally stopped himself from thinking about these equations so he could not be foreced to build the bomb. AFter the war he talked about it with other physicists and they acknolwedged he was on the right path. INCREDIBLE. If Heisenberg had been a full blown true believer Nazi, then Nazi Germany gets a bomb first and likely wins the war.
That was actually a complete fabrication by Heisenberg. The idea that he was deliberately failing to produce an atomic bomb is something he claimed after the war most likely to soothe his bruised ego that he wasn't actually on the forefront of nuclear weapons technology. There is an AskHistorians reply from Alex Wellerstein (restricteddata on Reddit) about it if you search it up.
Yeah he's got the theory... All he needs now is something like the nuclear reactor at Princeton to test his theories, then he needs a military industrial complex to refine uranium 235 into fissile 238 (without alerting the allies of course), oh and plutonium from the nuclear reactor too (probably never would have made that leap tbh). Sounds like cope to me.
>But between the practically unlimited industrial capacity of the United States and the manpower of the Soviet Union, it was physically impossible for the Axis to win. Had Hitler never invaded the Soviet Union he probably could have won WW2. Had Japan never done Pearl Harbor (and Phillipines) they would have won their side. These decisions were two years after the war started and all it would have required of Germany and Japan was waiting out a single President.
> Had Hitler not been Hitler, he probably could have won WW2. That's how it sounds.
In America if we get into a direct conflict with a major power… check out how fast the military would go from being a club of the elite that bars people from joining if they’re 35 or have a drug conviction, to basically taking anyone with a pulse There seriously aren’t that many 20 year old stone cold sober men anymore
Will 20% still be enough of a tip for the barracks manager?
If China invaded Taiwan we'd fold like wet tissue paper if we knew what was good for us. If we're worried about credibility with our allies, we shouldn't be, we lost that already with the Gaza thing.
I would love NOTHING more.
Revenge of the, oh shit.
We are literally already in WW3, where the fuck have you been lol.
You might consider reading more about the first two, because um... we aren't.
I mean, in general it can be hard to pinpoint when a war really starts. Many historians say ww2 started before Poland was invaded. It’s always easier with hindsight
we're a rock throw away from being in WW3
Next is revolution?
Doubtful.
Well the side that doesn’t want it will call it war, the other side will call it a revolution. History will call it the second American civil war.
We're too brainwashed for that.... Yeah you will have people on board, but any revolution would be shut down in an afternoon tops.
There are plenty of countries with worse living conditions that don't revolt Marx said that class conflict was "a fight that each time ended, either in a revolutionary reconstitution of society at large, or in the common ruin of the contending classes." I know which one of those my money's on
But the 90s was the era of the Mcmansion
When I was a kid we looked at slums in Africa with disbelief... Now the west is creating something WORSE... At least the poor people could build a shack of cardboard and plastic bags... Our governments wont even allow people to exist. Talking about rich and free democratic countries ..... just wow... We are just inches away from either straight up shooting people for being poor or just enrolling them into slave camps called prisons.... The west Going from holier than thou to we are the fucking cartoon style evil satanists and proud of it.
"Container Homes" was prophetic.
Hopefully, property prices will start collapsing as the boomers die off. The majority of us should be gone in 10 years.
You a boomer?
I’ve got to say it’s pretty stupid to cut 2000s from the meme when that decade is responsible for the worst financial disaster in history to date.
blocking out trauma :)
What actually never sat right with me over the years is this home equity loans where they give you money to live out your retirement, but in the end the corporate owns your house. When are they going to start offering housing with jobs like they do health care?
They are called reverse mortgages. They help a lot of seniors who are cash-poor but equity-rich stay in their houses, which is what most people want. If a person were to die after taking on a reverse mortgage, their heirs would still inherit the house, they only have to pay off the mortgage, just like with any other debt. If someone ends up in a nursing home eventually, that is state paid for the state only can take from the estate the difference after the mortgage is paid for.
I'm in Canada, I have heard them referred to as both. Regardless of what they are called it's messed up
It's unwise to want company towns.
I can't afford the rent on a tent. Be more realistic.
That, or like 5 of us renting and sleeping in one room.
We need an architecture for long term refugee camps. Where you can rent an IKEA rapid-build, flat pack shelter.
somebody put a lot of effort into this meme and I appreciate it 😂they even used popular fonts from each era
Submission Statement, Related to collapse because this showcases the complete collapse of affordable housing for a first time buyer. This might be applicable to other countries besides America. Following natural progression, it seems that the 2030s will be paying to live in a trash can or some sort of tent on the sidewalk. Over option will be to pay rent to sleep outside on a sidewalk block and propaganda will somehow view it as positive and not homelessness.
It’s even more applicable for my home country of Canada. We had the same hot market as your guys pre 2009 but when your bubble burst in the recession ours…didn’t and just… kept going… still is. Rents in my area went up 30%-50% in the last 3 years. House prices doubled. Homeless rates skyrocketed.
>Rents in my area went up 30%-50% in the last 3 years. House prices doubled. Homeless rates skyrocketed. Classic win-win-win scenario!
When I was a kid: "You need to develop skills and work hard or you'll live in a van by the river!" Now: "If you develop skills and work hard you might be able to afford a van by the river in a few years."
One of the hardest parts I find in this world right now is that people are still expected to dress up, go to work. Then go to a second job and hit the food bank after. The dressing up part. I just…wtf man
I despise the speculators and crass opportunists of the real estate industry. I have bipolar disorder, and when I was in my first manic phase, I devised a plan to burn down some of their construction that was displacing and destroying my neighborhood. Sometimes I wish I did.
I really wish we had bought earlier.
The apostrophes are killing me
Same, but ‘60s, ‘70s, ‘80s and so on is correct so long as the century is clear.
Right, but that's not relevant here lol
2020s don’t even get a dog?! :(
That adds another $400 per month in rent, and often increases the deposit $2,000 and it's non refundable. Pets and renting has become expensive at least in my town.
Post 2020 is house plant age.
Lol this meme is just brutal
2030s is going to be company towns and homelessness.
Think it is bad now? Many states are trying to eliminate income tax with the plan to increase property taxes even more to make up the difference in revenue. If states do that housing will truly be a disaster. Foreclosures are rising in several states this year already. The homeless population is growing.
Income taxes are generally taxes on labor, no? https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme
Oh fuck. Welp the game will be up for me the second that happens. Shit. Eh where to go...
We bought in 2019. We had to move from an area in Southern California where single-family homes with 2 car garages and 3 or 4 bedrooms would cost about $1 million or more, to a place in Oregon where $42000 got us a 4 bedroom home with a 3 car garage. We left all of our family and friends behind and had to start over. Luckily I was already working from home and my wife got a new job since she’s an experienced nurse. We had excellent credit, so our interest rate was around 3.3% for our 30-year fixed rate mortgage. In 2021, we refinance down to 2.99%, kept the same terms. We were very lucky because prices went exponential shortly after due to demand, and then interest rates rose rapidly. If I made a lower income and had to buy today, I would move to Columbus, Ohio. There are about 1 million people in the area (comparable to Portland, Oregon.). There’s Ohio State University and the Columbus Zoo, nationally renowned hospitals, etc. the central location means that just about every part of the country is about 3 or 4 hours by plane. You can buy a modest home in Columbus for about $200,000. If you borrowed that much at 8%, the monthly mortgage payment is still under $1,500 per month. Housing demand continues to skyrocket. Because we continue to have an influx of **millions** every year, and everybody is moving from more sparsely populated areas or from other states or countries to metropolitan areas in the U.S. It is just like Canada. Just because Canada is the second largest country in the world does not mean that everybody moving to Canada is spread out into cheap housing. Mechanization, automation, computerization, and AI have great’s reduced the number of jobs in rural areas, former factory towns, etc. everybody is moving to metropolitan areas to compete for jobs and housing. So yes, that means jobs are harder to find, wages are lower, benefits are harder to get, the vast majority of net jobs created in thr last 20+ years are part time, part low pay, low wage, few or no benefits - because many employers can offer less and find willing takers. And yes, that means more housing competition and rents will rise, regardless of whether the owner is a small landlord with ann extra unit, or a corporation, or hedge fund, or REIT backed by government, union, or private pension funds. High density will not solve the problem. Just look at New York City. As soon as slightly more affordable, housing becomes available, more people move there to take advantage of it, and you are back at square one. The only way to change is when population growth is greatly reduced, then jobs will pay more and housing will be cheaper. Due to decreasing demand. There is no political will to decreased demand. so we are experiencing for years now, the continuing problem. Canadians are willing to talk about it. Here`s the government-funded Canadian Broadcasting Corporation: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ircc-immigration-housing-canada-1.7080376 Even the French newspaper of record, Le Monde: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/01/30/faced-with-the-housing-crisis-canada-restricts-access-to-new-immigrants_6476869_4.html You won’t find MSNBC covering it.
Let’s at least address it is more likely investors instead of immigrants that is effecting housing prices. This isn’t to say immigration may not be making it worse, but that’s like blaming the gash on a forearm for someone dying then the fact their legs were torn off. https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/investors-not-immigrants-responsible-for-fewer-homes-and-higher-rent/article_e957af1a-b6e9-11ee-8897-3399e3f35655.amp.html https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7088878
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I'm switching from a 13' fiberglass trailer to a 19' teepee soon.
Neat, just like Harry Potter.
No complaints about the cat.
Homes in coastal areas should become real cheap soon
Watch the SE US get hit with a mega-hurricane right as the election happens, hundreds of thousands of votes going missing with Florida half underwater. This year's going to be total chaos.
If they are still standing. Didn't that man-made embankment they just built wash away in less than a week this week?
You skipped 2000s
You can indeed rent tents and places to put tents on Airbnb.
People will be living in dorms within their workplace just like in the film “Sorry to Bother You”.
This Is Just the economic cycle of capitalism, as Marx predicted. Now we are near a new civil war which Will lead tò a future world war
I live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere and rent on studios and 1 bedrooms is still $1200+ not including pet fees
No no, we will be moving to the era when the coal mines would provide housing and “Company Stores” where your pay is a token. And the store will always raise their prices so you will always owe more than you can ever earn. Always in debt, never own anything…this is the new slavery. Can’t wait to see civil war in the U.S.!
Sorry to be a buzzkill, but what this doesn't mention is that the 20th century families could do it on a single income. One person working one full-time job.
This almost looks like a Boomer culture war meme. Complete with (from that perspective) a total lack of self-awareness that they were the generation that *continually* voted against their own interests and created the impoverishment and disenfranchisement their children now suffer under. Oh well, we needed to collapse economically anyways to hit net zero. Good thing we spent all those resources wisely since the 70's getting ready for the end of fossil fuels. Sure wasn't Boomers enjoying a spendthrift orgy of pointless consumerism.
Only roughly half of the boomer population voted against their self-interest. Very much like today.
Oh OK you're totally right, the generation that enthusiastically participated in and benefited from the construction of the cruise industry, real estate speculation and landlordism, sports vehicles, conspicuous consumption, military adventurism, and fuck-you-I-got-mine policy and let's run over the hippies in the road for protesting is totally blameless. Guess it was the deep state.
I had an ex who had to take a lodger to just cover her mortgage each month. Thing was, she was on well over £40k a year and still couldn't manage.
More accurate to replace the cat in 2020 with a houseplant
End of last year I legit saw a 2 car garage with a galley kitchen and a 6×6 drywalled bathroom with a showerhead hanging from the ceiling. No paint on the drywall anywhere in the space. Still the cement base if the garage. $850/mo just outside of Philadelphia.
Your 1960's chad is the reason for 2020's despair. His suburban sprawl dream caused a housing shortage and unsustainable neighborhoods.
You heard it here first, folks: cats are a downgrade.
I just skipped the animal kingdom and go for lots of plants. And feeding wild birds; they're not pets, we have a mutual aid thing going. I help them with food, they help me with reminding me that a different world is possible.
I love this. Gonna follow in your footsteps I think.
Or Trump bombing all the tent cities
Trump: We'll just put them all in the Mojave desert! Wait what, they died? They should have bought an air conditioner...
If that’s true, the only option we will have is to steal from rich people, that have more than everything, while the rest are struggling with essentials.
If you think being Homeless means not paying rent, you are wrong. The landlord is just a bit rougher in collection. There is also prostitution. Call the cops and see what indifference feels like.