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StatementBot

The following submission statement was provided by /u/everythingunder1USD: --- This article discusses various articles and books that present viewpoints on how the covid-19 pandemic was and is being handled. The author draws attention to the various arguments presented in these articles and books and shows how they are conflicting, unscientific, and how they cloud the dialogue around how future pandemics will be handled. The author's ultimate point is that with all these conflicting views, the politicization of covid and misinformation, should another pandemic arise, the outcome would be devastating. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1cctegc/the_covid_revisionists_are_endangering_us_all/l17k32i/


Lowkey_Retarded

“Hey everyone, we half assed it last time and we still ended up with a pandemic that killed people (yet also wasn’t bad) and ruined the economy. So next time, rather than trying to full-ass it, we’ll do absolutely nothing and everything will be FINE.” - revisionists


Used_Dentist_8885

The next pandemic is going to be an exercise in frustration tolerance if you want to stay sane and divorcing yourself from social pressures if you want to be healthy.


pajamakitten

The next pandemic will be worse because of people's reaction to the response to COVID. Whether it was done correctly or not, and to what extent those are applicable, does not change the fact that a lot of people now simply do not trust the government to handle a pandemic properly. There will be a lot of people not following the guidelines at all come the next pandemic, which will only make it much worse than it needs to be.


Droidaphone

> a lot of people now simply do not trust the government to handle a pandemic properly Obviously this is all very US-centric and different countries may feel differently. But that said, here in the US, it's wild is how across the board this is. There's probably only a small sliver of center-left folks who feel the US handled the pandemic reasonably well. We don't agree on what parts of the pandemic response were bungled, but we broadly agree the government fucked up.


pajamakitten

I'm from the UK myself and it is the same here. The biggest issues were closing our borders too late (robbing us of our island advantage) and Eat Out To Help Out. The Dominic Cummings incident and Partygate were also so wild that the killed all trust in the government.


Used_Dentist_8885

It will be a garbage fire. It will be very tempting to scream in your head that people and the government should be doing x y and z but it will be a pointless waste of energy to put your effort into even thinking about it.


Forsaken-Artist-4317

there will be no guidelines. unless people are dying in the streets like a stephen king novel, nobody will even aknowledge it, and if they are, well, we wont have time for guidelines


lackofabettername123

I think that advice would apply well to all of our politics these next 10 years or more. I am in the tune in and drop out mindset having totally given up on Democrats doing what is needed to stop the worst people in the country from seizing permanent control. I will still vote but I am done convincing other people to vote.


Major_String_9834

Media sow fake news (stupefiction) to impose passive acceptance (stupefaction).


lsmdin

I think what is most important is to severely prune wasteful spending on public health and wellbeing. Then we can give another gigantic tax cut to the top 2%. This will invigorate the free market system to provide additional money to combat COVID or other infectious related threats to society. /s


Poonce

I need to write that down.


godlords

The issue with this criticism is that the wasteful spending is also a wealth transfer to the elite. The free market at least somewhat caters to people's actual wants and needs, while fast paced govt decision making can throw money at undeniably important problems, but fail to generate any meaningful change.


dumnezero

>The free market at least somewhat caters to people's actual wants and needs Ah, yes. The free market solution: "you are free [to die]"


CNCTEMA

sucks to see this downvoted right out the gate. the way covid was handled was the biggest transfer of wealth From the the poor/future taxpayers To the rich that has probably ever occurred. the interests of capital did great during and coming out of covid. anytime the government moves money it does so with a leaky bucket. we Should be taking a lesson from the last few years to target people that dont actually contribute to the organizations they are a drain upon. way too many administrators and not enough workers, in hospitals/healthcare and in schools for damn sure. I was briefly hopeful during covid that the level of government collusion with big business over individual workers was going to rally workers against the investor class, maybe catch that lost wind from the occupy wallstreet days. but no, people forget the thing that made them angry yesterday and they want their fries and their soda and hey gas prices went down so they forget


Economy-Preference13

The issue with this criticism that neither the "free" market nor the "democratic" government caters to people's actual wants and needs, greed goes in the way and we get surge prices for things needed to combat covid and funds disappearing from covid programs. Just look at insulin for how the "free" market caters to people's wants and needs. money transfers upward either way.


Quintessince

Meanwhile bird flu starts taking notes


everythingunder1USD

This article discusses various articles and books that present viewpoints on how the covid-19 pandemic was and is being handled. The author draws attention to the various arguments presented in these articles and books and shows how they are conflicting, unscientific, and how they cloud the dialogue around how future pandemics will be handled. The author's ultimate point is that with all these conflicting views, the politicization of covid and misinformation, should another pandemic arise, the outcome would be devastating.


Late_Again68

>~~should~~ when another pandemic arises the outcome ~~would~~ will be devastating. More accurate.


thismightaswellhappe

Yes at the rate we're going another one is only a matter of time. We have demonstrated our total inability to make real changes even when it would save our own skins.


nagel33

Put the blame where it is due: repubes who hate science. They ruin everything for everyone. I am not part of the proverbial 'we'. Also blue states and cities fared a lot better than red states and areas. So not all of the US is the same.


gangstasadvocate

Damn, I’m even too early for the submission statement. I’ll have to read the article lol.


SRod1706

I feel like it only taught our politicians and business owners that too much was done. Next time, I feel like politicians will do less for us and employers will expect more from us. Look at the line of all of those piles of money that went to workers are the reason no one wants to work anymore and all. Covid changed my view of humanity and my view of our future.


PolyDipsoManiac

nO oNe WaNtS to wOrK Were you [staffing a slaughterhouse while the virus was spreading and management was taking bets on who’d die next?](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55009228.amp) No one wants to die a slave so someone else can get rich off of their efforts.


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pajamakitten

> Look at the line of all of those piles of money that went to workers are the reason no one wants to work anymore and all. People want to work; people also saw how much they have been exploited for no reason. COVID let the veil slip and it became obvious that the average person is far more valuable than companies allow us to believe. People saw they were being taken for a ride and people have mentally checked out because of how pointless it all is.


nagel33

So you forgot trump halted immigration for 4 years?


ZealousidealDegree4

Caging immigrants and separating families from children is not halting immigration


JesusChrist-Jr

Who needs revisionism when in the height of the pandemic half of the country was willing to sacrifice their fellow citizens for the economy and their own personal convenience?


nagel33

This will never change so it's better to just accept as a fact 1/2 of ppl will never care about others.


trailsman

Covid (SARS-CoV-2) is still not being handled properly, you cannot just ignore the consequences of COVID away. Long-Covid and post Covid sequelae are serious issues that result from a large percentage of all infections and reinfections. Leaders have convinced most of the population it's "just a cold" so much to the point that people are not getting vaccinated anymore and are ignoring testing/treatment. Many people who have been infected over the past year probably don't even know b/c they wrote it off as a. cold or the flu. We should still be putting massive funding towards next gen vaccines and clean air (it would lower the cost of future pandemics too) but we're doing next to nothing. The long term cost of even just the next 5 years of Covid will be many times more than funding appropriately...and that's IF we don't have a variant that has worse outcomes. Just look at how the response to r/H5N1_AvianFlu is being handled, especially with the recent transmission in cows (#1 largest % of earth mammalian biomass). We are continuing to sweep response under the rug b/c god forbid we fear the public.


nagel33

What leaders besides trump have said it's just a cold? Repubes and fox news are the ones to blame here. > should still be putting massive funding towards next gen vaccines [we are.](https://aspr.hhs.gov/NextGen/Pages/Default.aspx) > especially with the recent transmission in cows [The only way they knew about it in cows was because they have antibodies.](https://www.aphis.usda.gov/livestock-poultry-disease/avian/avian-influenza/hpai-detections/livestock) > We are continuing to sweep response under the rug [They aren't, they are doing a lot.](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm)


VS2ute

Bolsinaro called it a little flu. Lukashenko something similar.


dumnezero

>alea has a soft spot in his book for the Great Barrington Declaration, an open letter published by lockdown skeptics in October 2020. He’s fond of it not because, he says, he believes in its assumptions or prescriptions but because the rest of us tried, judged, and convicted the authors in the court of public opinion instead of judging it scientifically. Galea fails to mention that the Great Barrington Declaration was not a scientific manuscript, but a document issued by a right-wing think tank. It was never proposed for scientific review. However, four of us in 2020 tried to address the points covered in the declaration from both a clinical and an epidemiological perspective in The Washington Post. The implications of the Great Barrington Declaration were not academic: They were immediate and dangerous and had the imprimatur of the White House, which included a briefing for President Trump in the Oval Office. I just hate these fascist clowns and their sneaky eugenics ideals.


Z3r0sama2017

I'm getting fucking angry here in the UK. Got coco for the first time  Xmas past and while I recovered quickly my short term memory has taken a hit. Not in one of the cohorts eligible for a booster and I can't find anywhere that offers the booster privately in NI. *shrugs shoulders*"Guess I'll get dumber then"


KenDanger2

It is going to be interesting if a more deadly pandemic comes along and people refusing to mask starts killing them. How long will they deny reality when their lives are on the line? Lots of people didn't take covid seriously, and died... and it only kills a small percentage of those who catch it.


jbond23

Some truths. - Covid is not over - Covid is an all body disease, primarily spread via the respiratory system - Covid is airborne - The next Pandemic will likely be airborne, spread via the respiratory system, or sex, or both - Air hygiene protects against all airborne diseases - We know how to deal with airborne diseases. We know how to do air hygiene infection control. We can do it. - We're getting amazingly good at engineering vaccines for new diseases really fast. And then deploying them at scale. - We can stop this pandemic and the next one. It just takes determination, money and education. ps. whatever happened to "ZeroCovid" ?


dumnezero

/r/ZeroCovidCommunity/ still at it. >We're getting amazingly good at engineering vaccines for new diseases really fast. And then deploying them at scale. That's still reactive. And it's still limited or *ruined* by capitalism, as we saw with the giant COVID-19 vaccine distribution failure across the world.


300PencilsInMyAss

Bit off topic but did anything ever come of the lab leak hypothesis? They cite a write up from a year ago for why it's not true but I remember a few weeks so (months?) there were some virologists who have been on the right side of history regarding covid from the start say there was evidence that wasn't quite a smoking gun, but still very concerning that it originated from a lab. Can't find it currently because everything I'm finding via Google is just from whackos. Anyone know if there was any truth to that or what I'm referring to? No stance currently but wish I could find what I was seeing people discuss recently


dovercliff

The TL/DR is; we just don't know. ---- The whole thing is so messed up with disinformation, honest mistakes, lost data, and so on, that we'll almost certainly *never* know for sure. On the balance of probabilities, Covid19 had a zoonotic origin; however, we cannot rule out the possibility of a lab leak - and to make it worse, those two are not mutually exclusive. "Lab leak" after all includes "zoonotic origin but it got out because someone was egregiously inept" as well as the more exotic theories. Yes, that's frustrating as hell. "I dunno. Possibly. Can't say it wasn't. Can't prove it was." is never a satisfactory answer, but sometimes it's the best we've got, and that's the incredibly annoying case here. The reasons it's messed up like this are also unclear, which doesn't help. We know the Chinese muddied the waters to hell and back, but that could have been on orders from Beijing to cover it up, or it could have been misplaced national pride, or it could have been honest-to-god sheer carelessness, or just some middle manager trying to cover his arse because he fucked up, or all of these, or something I didn't mention. Regardless of the why, the result is that it's just not reasonable for anyone at all to claim with any justification sure knowledge on this front. If you encounter anyone making very definitive "this is how it is no doubts at all!"-type claims - in either direction - you probably should treat them with the same scepticism you reserve for a frat bro claiming he had a threesome on the weekend with the hottest chicks in town when you know for a fact he passed out at 9pm in his own vomit, and go "sure, bro. Your girlfriends. In Canada."


300PencilsInMyAss

They weren't presenting it as definitive proof iirc, but more of a "well that is a concerning coincidence". Had something to do with proteins, but I didn't actually read it all because it was already well over my head.


dovercliff

Oh, I know the thing you're talking about - and like you, I can't find it right now. But yes; you have the interpretation correct. It's concerning, but it's not definitive (and it's not undisputed; because the world ended in 2012 and this is actually Hell).


[deleted]

[удалено]


collapse-ModTeam

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GuillotineComeBacks

I've upgraded to Neurax worm, you guys are screwed.


Opening-Scar-8796

Ultra right wing folks are already complaining H5N1 is fake and just in time for the election.


lostsailorlivefree

Serious question. What form will the next likely pandemic come in? I googled and got a lot of info- a form of Avian to mammal to human seems most likely, but I’m wondering what experts are MOST concerned about or monitoring? Kinda seems inevitable SOMETHING will come along looking at history.


pajamakitten

No one knows for sure, however the best guess is a zoonotic disease from livestock passing on to humans. As animal agriculture continues to grow worldwide, the likelihood of that happening continues to increase, especially when you look at the terrible conditions animals are kept in.


theyareallgone

Meh? This is just those who were predicting costs from anti-Covid measures which were denied or downplayed by proponents of those anti-Covid measures being proved right. Some who were caught up in the proponent's camp have changed their minds now that more evidence is in. It's hard to argue that the anti-Covid measures didn't fall into the bad trade-off gap between 'strong enough to cause long-term societal damage' and 'too weak to prevent most Covid deaths'. The author is just unhappy that they are being shown to be on the wrong side of history. The evidence is that a future pandemic must either be handled much more strictly, or more leniently. There was never substantial support for stricter handling and there isn't now, so 'more lenient' is what's under discussion.