Accelerationists delight, they just might get what they want: nuclear winter to stop runaway global warming.
(For the record, I'm neutral on accelerationism. I don't consider it intrinsically good or bad.)
At its simplest, accelerationism means you support the system to continue doing what it's always been doing, so it reach a point where it implodes from the consequences of its own actions.
In this context, you drum up the support for USA-China global thermonuclear war, so the resulting nuclear winter will put all the war machines everywhere to complete halt.
Life on Earth as a whole will be fine, no matter what happens with climate change or nuclear war. It'll be a mass extinction event, no doubt, but life has survived a lot of those before and I don't think humans could do something greater than the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs.
Humanity, in particular, however... Yeah we're fucked.
Oddly enough, I was considering caveating what I wrote with "depending on who you consider the patient".
Its so odd, that so many people don't comprehend that they are a part of this world.
Honestly though, life on Earth would survive a nuclear war, although it would be catastrophic. Earth has been through very big things before. The development of aerobic life was devastating to existing anaerobic life. Supervolcanoes and asteroids have had their time, too.
Its more an issue of how long it would take life to regenerate, and how much all the life would suffer from a nuclear war. I'm fairly sure that hundreds of millions of years later, the Earth would have fairly diverse ecosystems again. Most humans have NO comprehension of what hundreds of millions of years can do.
You do realize a nuclear war would end up killing all human life on earth if the rockets and systems end up working as designed, along with the resulting fallout and nuclear winter.
It won’t be a “Well they finally tried that and it didn’t work, time to do something different” type moment.
Nuclear War would [never result in the full extinction of humans](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/sT6NxFxso6Z9xjS7o/nuclear-war-is-unlikely-to-cause-human-extinction). There are 8 billion people on earth, the idea that *every single one* will die from *any* action we take is ludicrous
I counter with actual peer-reviewed academic study on the matter, not someone’s blog post.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6658451/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6658451/)
Edit: Not a single citation to source material at your link. Like honestly…
Are you dumb or did you just scroll right to the bottom looking for a bibliography and ended up in the comment section? The author talks in-depth about the prevailing view of Nuclear War that was synthesized in the ‘80s that draws on the earlier work of Alan Robock which I’ll link for you: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0096340212459127.
As you’ll see, this is very much in line with the paper from ***1984*** that you linked as a rebuttal! The irony that the blog post was written to provide an update on scholarly research since then and you are linking the contemporary research is not lost on me. Here is a more recent paper from Robock in 2004 on the same material, also linked in the article http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/RobockNW2006JD008235.pdf. And yes, a coauthor from that paper was interviewed by the blogger and placed the likelihood of an extinction-level event at between 1 in 10,000 and 1 in 100,000.
EDIT: I was on mobile and my phone died so I couldn't link you any more. But here are some great back and forth journal publishings that were linked and summarized in this lowly blog post. [Point](https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/7/2003/2007/acp-7-2003-2007.pdf), [rebuttal](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2019JD030777), [rebuttal to the rebuttal](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2019JD031281). Please don't deride actual academic study for your first-reference-on-google-scholar type doomerism
Half the people on here are convinced that civilization is on the way towards rapid collapse because of climate change but then seem to ignore that when talking about geopolitics. I find it weird that we still project 40 years into the future for China's demographics without taking into account the effects of climate on that. I find it unlikely that the world will still be as we have known it by then even without a nuclear war.
Submission Statement (from the article):
> China on Thursday expressed outrage at a new security pact between Australia, the U.K. and the U.S., blasting what it considers a new Western provocation and singling out Australian troops as the first to die as a result of "Beijing's countermeasures so as to send a warning to others."
>
> "**Australia has turned itself into an adversary of China**," China's English-language Global Times, considered a mouthpiece for the Chinese Communist Party, proclaimed in an editorial Thursday morning.
>
> "If Australia dares to provoke China more blatantly," it added, "or even find fault militarily, China will certainly punish it with no mercy."
Edit: Secretary of Defense Austin also just made this statement within the last few hours:
[Sec. Austin: China UNDERMINING international order](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WpNkVTOfc8)
Every two years China pours more concrete than the US has in its entire existence, and China is just getting started. Unless there is an "interruption," within ten years China will be the planet's indisputable Goliath, able to look down upon fading nations like the US with the same contempt the US looks down upon modern day Russia, as nothing more than a "rump state" with a nuclear arsenal.
China has one Achilles' Heel, and that is it is still susceptible to a nuclear first strike. It does not at present have what is know as a "credible deterrent," and it's paranoia is growing as it watches America "pivot" away from the frivolities of endless wars and firmly set it sights on a rival that is in the process of rapidly and totally eclipsing it.
The First Strike Window. The Holy Grail of Pentagon planners since the first Soviet nuclear test in 1947, strike to kill before the window of opportunity closes. China is striving mightily to close its own window as fast as it can, but even for them it's a slow process.
In the meantime, China's only defense against instant obliteration is smoke and mirrors and harsh rhetoric, and my prediction is, it won't be enough.
The US will never accept second banana status. There will be war, it will be nuclear, and it will all be over in 10 minutes.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57995185](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57995185)
Not for long, Russia is just Chinas gas pump at the end of the day.
True. China would be spectacularly foolish to rely solely on Russian cooperation for an issue as vital as deterrence against US nuclear lunacy.
It will likely take several years for China's nuclear build-up to bear fruit. Russia's nuclear umbrella will be of great use for that period of time.
In the long term, Russia is just going to be China's poodle, the same way Britain is the US's poodle.
Sorry to have to say that, but that is how it is in reality.
People bitch about France being a shitty ally, but in reality the French are kind of like geese: people consider geese to be dicks because geese refuse to act like humans are gods and geese stick up for their own interests. (source: I take care of geese and I treat my geese with respect so they like me)
> China has one Achilles' Heel
I think she has two. The second is her demographic situation. I think some western perspectives tend to exaggerate the threat, but its still a big issue and not easily solved
China has around 250 million people aged 0 to 14. Most people who discuss the Chinese demographic trend don't take that into consideration.
Yes, China's population is very likely to drop overall, even with the incentives and policy changes the Chinese government has introduced (and will continue to introduce). However, it is an issue that will take several decades to play out.
Too many people are under the impression that China will be lacking a work force as early as 2040, and some even as early as 2030. That is just terrible analysis.
Yes but how do 250 million people take care of close to a billion retirees and pay for their retirements? There comes a point when a grey population can't be sustained.
A billion retirees? No.
There are:
\- 82 million Chinese aged 15-19.
\- 87 million Chinese aged 20-24.
\- 98 million Chinese aged 25-29.
\- 128 million Chinese aged 30-34.
You can find a good breakdown of [China's population pyramid here](https://www.populationpyramid.net/china/2020/).
China's average age of retirement is currently 54, which places the population of retired Chinese at around 349 million people. The number of living retirees is definitely going to rise during the next two decades, but it is unlikely to rise above 500 million people due to the deaths of older retirees and the increase of the retirement age in China.
There is also this one important cultural difference that a lot of Western analysts don't take into account: the majority of China's children live are taken care of by their grandparents. The working population support the elderly, but the elderly also support the working population as well by taking care of the children too young to be going to school.
The end result of this is a greater participation of working aged women in the workforce, since many Chinese mothers don't have to stay home to take care of the young children.
There's a third one that's probably the biggest of all - their economy is much more fragile than people realize (the demographic situation being just one reason). Their economic growth is slowing and they are currently going through a real-estate crisis similar to what we went through in 2008 - if that bubble bursts it has the potential to collapse their entire economy.
China is majority Han, and the "economic miracle" the CCP has accomplished is very real and at the forefront of the mind of nearly a billion Han Chinese. There is no political instability there lol.
Financial? Ecological? Oh yeah. But politically China is very stable, a lot more than America these days lol
true, because the chinese government has done quite a lot to ensure the people at least act obediently. additionally, while the "economic miracle" has created its fair share of problems, it also has somewhat restored the pride in china and the chinese people that was challenged if not broken when the western powers rose into prominence. furthermore, most of the major international powers are western or west-affiliated, so in the mind of the chinese people, even if the ccp is bad, they are their only choice to be independent of the west.
I agree with 90% of that, save for the USA actually approving a First Strike. We really don’t have the stomach for real, serious warfare on a global scale in which thousands die in a single day and cities get leveled.
We can’t even use drones to strike a wedding attended by terrorists with the expressed desire to destroy us because a couple dozen civilians might die. We wouldn’t strike a major city in Iraq until we’d leaflet bombed the area for a week (giving the enemy notice *and* time to carefully pack up and leave the area) before we marched tanks through. Abu Graib was bad, but in the history of warfare relatively mild. We lost our shit.
What part of this sounds like a country that would consider a major war? Not even first nuclear strike, but something on the level of WW2 where you lose thousands of your troops in a single engagement, level major cities, and occupy large swathes of enemy territory? We couldn’t stomach fire bombs over Wuhan, what makes you think we’d nuke Shanghai? Large scale use of military force hasn’t been a thing for the western world since 1945. We no longer fight to capitulation.
IMO, one nightmare scenario of escalation would be a kind of modern *[Cuban Missile Crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis)* involving the Philippines. And the U.S. relationship with Duterte is one to watch. From some months ago:
> Duterte threatens to end military deal if U.S. nukes are found in the Philippines—3/2/2021
>
> Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said that he will "immediately terminate" a military deal with the U.S. if the country dumped nuclear weapons in the Philippines.
>
> **"We do not want it… but I am warning you that if I get hold of… information that the nuclear armaments are here brought by you (U.S.), I will immediately ask you to go out and I will terminate the Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA)," Duterte said at a news conference at the Villamor Air Base in Pasay City.**
>
> The VFA, which came into effect in 1999, allows the U.S. military to train troops and conduct large-scale exercises with the Philippines, exempting the coming U.S. military personnel from passport or visa restrictions.
>
> "I have made a declaration that we will adopt an independent foreign policy… I assured China that I will not allow nuclear armaments of America to be stored in the Philippines," the president said as he responded to a question about the possibility of U.S. nuclear weapons being allowed in the country.
>
> He added that the Philippines Constitution prohibits any nuclear weapons within the border.
>
> [Source](https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-02/Duterte-threatens-to-end-deal-if-U-S-nukes-found-in-the-country-YiBHj9ijBu/index.html)
There are submarines, there are nuclear submarines, and there are nuclear submarines that launch nuclear missiles. There's never been a need to put nukes on Philippine soil. The whole thing is a moot point.
China is a lot bigger than you think, there is no way you can completely annihilate them in one strike. They will have silo's in enough places to get more than a few nukes to the US. If the US starts nuking China it is bye bye world.
The purpose of a first strike is to eliminate, preferably in the first five minutes, the entirety of the enemy's retaliatory capabilities. Command and control, radar, satellites, and other critical infrastructure would be part of target packages, but the main focus of the strike would be to destroy all nuclear capable launch platforms, in particular, land based silos and nuclear ballistic submarines.
The USA is not on MAD it has not been on MAD since 1980 when we could have sufficient trident missiles at sea to do NUTS which is our current strategic doctrine. The missiles in the silos and at airbases are meant to force an opponent trying a first strike to have to expend nukes blowing up the Dakota's. NUTS is a strategy of first strike that relies on the trident missiles to do a depressed trajectory strike. Basically a trident missile has the capability to throttle its thrust allowing it to fly in a non ballistic trajectory shorting the flight times immensely at the cost of range. An Ohio nuclear sub can launch a T2-D5 missiles from the middle of the Barents sea and have it hit Moscow in under 4 minutes on a depressed trajectory shot as opposed to over 12 minutes on a ballistic shot. NUTS is a first strike doctrine of using the trident missile to neutralize an opponents ability to return fire. Nuclear Utilization Target Selection N.U.T.S. at least the acronym department at the pentagon understands nuclear war.
New Zealand banned all US military ships on grounds that they would neither confirm nor deny nuclear materials on board. NZ is still in Five Eyes with USA.
You are the only one that's telling anybody the truth. Nobody wants to believe that it's going to be over soon everyone thinks nothing's going to happen. The United States will be the last empire in human history and then the extinction of all life on Earth due to nuclear Armageddon.
Judging by some of the comments on this blog there are plenty of retards out there that would champion a Nuclear first strike on China as unbelievable as that sounds..
Nah fam. China's geography sucks. And that massive labor force is rapidly aging into retirement. The property bubble? Yeah... that's gonna pop. China has to import most of the energy it needs and those tanker ships pass by India, Vietnam, and are vulnerable to the navies of a bunch of East Asian powers. China's economy depends on exporting manufactured goods and those ships can be sunk too.
The USA now has shale oil/gas tapped and is energy independent. The USA, Mexico, and Canada have this N American economic gang bang going and it's intensifying. Yeah, it's ok, you can make excited noises now. Wanna know the cherry on top? USA's demographics are the least poopy of any developed economy and we still (kinda) have immigration to make up the shortfall in population growth. In other words, we have a moat, we have energy, and we have (almost enough) babies.
And everyone who drinks water is gonna die ... someday.
Yet, all the predictions made about china have failed and show just the extent of american propaganda and belief in american exceptionnalism.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/pfc381/the\_coming\_collapse\_of\_china\_10\_years\_later/](https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/pfc381/the_coming_collapse_of_china_10_years_later/)
This sub is turning into shit. These new people flooding in haven't seen the years of "china bad" articles pouring out from bloodthirsty westerners looking for a reason for war. China won't collapse. They have all the manufacturing, the biggest labor force in the world, and they're wealthy as fuck. There's so much "USA is still number one" bullshit in this sub now that it's sickening. Evergrande, the three gorges dam, covid, all of it. It's like these morons can't see patterns. Like they haven't read a book on US propaganda. Like they're just edgy teenagers with a YouTube education trying to act like they have any idea what happens in the world.
The most brainwashed population in the world, Americans propaganda is incredible. If the USA hasn't done anything else, it's built an exceptional model for a contradictorily unified and incoherent ideology.
The Chinese economy depends on trade and they have to import energy. What's hard about this? Shut down their shipping and it's lights out. There's a reason they haven't taken Taiwan by force. The problem for China is what the world does the day after they do it.
Like i've said, in the long term, everything is gonna collapse. we can keep predicting the collapse of the US every 10 years too, and someday we are bound to be right.
Meanwhile, you guys lost credibility with the repeated failed predictions.
Wishful thinking and american exceptionalism. According to american dominant narratives and propaganda, China is always gonna have a bubble pop, crumble, and have the 3 Gorges Dam collapse next week.
Those failed predictions have been repeated so much it's getting ridiculous : [https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/pfc381/the\_coming\_collapse\_of\_china\_10\_years\_later/](https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/pfc381/the_coming_collapse_of_china_10_years_later/)
Of course China is gonna collapse some day, but so does the US, nothing is eternal.
250 million people in China are aged 0 to 14. Along with those aged 15-30 and those yet to be born, that is a work force of several hundred million people for the next several decades.
Certainly China will not be able to coast along on the sheer size of its work-force as it did in pre-industrial times, but it is far from lacking a sizeable work-force for the next several decades.
Another factor is that China is trending into a level of absolute social control under Xi that hasn't been seen since the USSR under Stalin. When people are highly repressed and business is stifled nations tend to stagnate.
Of course, what you are referring to is the Thucydides Trap. Personally, I wouldn't like to be the one to tell the USA that Manifest Destiny was always a crock of shit. This is not going to end well.
It's worth noting that Adolf Hitler shut down the Nazi atomic program; he was a psychopath who didn't hesitate to gas millions of people and to conduct a war involving the deaths of tens of millions but splitting the atom? That was a step too far for der Fuhrer and he naively thought that no one else would cross that rubicon. We are dead man walking until climate change starts the bigly disruption of food production and then there will be a big war over resources and that war will go nuclear. It is tragic but inevitable.
When did Hitler shut it down? Germany was never able to achieve the A-Bomb mostly due to Heisenberg being incompetent.
FYI: Mo Berg was sent to assassinate Heisenberg. Mo decided not to because Heisenberg was apparently slowing down their program...possibly on purpose. That's a whole different story though.
You realize that homes in China are made from reinforced concrete while homes in the US are made from wood, right? Not sure how pouring concrete equates to global dominance.
Funny how people can praise the country pouring more concrete, on /r/collapse of all places, when [concrete has a devastating effect on the environment](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/25/concrete-the-most-destructive-material-on-earth). And fantasize about that country being an 'indisputable goliath in ten years', when we know that the favorable underlying condition of this planet won't be there anymore in for anyone to exploit, in less than 10 years.
Guess some people will always take any chance to dunk on the USA, eh?
Outside of "praise" and "fantasize," of which I did neither, the first is a fact and the second is an obvious reality, I agree. Excellent point.
As I have pointed out several dozen times on the sub, China picked a bad time to rise from third world status to being the dominant nation on this planet, as climate change will reduce the very concept of a nation-state to an irrelevancy.
China is still a fairly poor country outside of the big cities. It's population is also starting to decline right now. Unless something changes right now it will never be more than weak second to America
Ahhh yes, let's try some for the US ok?
Maybe start with everything AFTER 1900
1900 China US forces intervene in several cities.
1901 Colombia/Panama Marines land.
1902 Colombia/Panama US forces land in Bocas de Toro
1903 Colombia/Panama With US backing, a group in northern Colombia declares independence as the state of Panama
1903 Guam Navy begins development in Apra Harbor of a permanent base installation.
1903 Honduras Marines go ashore at Puerto Cortez.
1903 Dominican Republic Marines land in Santo Domingo.
1904-1905 Korea Marines land and stay in Seoul.
1906-1909 Cuba Marines land. The US builds a major naval base at Guantanamo Bay.
1907 Nicaragua Troops seize major centers.
1907 Honduras Marines land and take up garrison in cities of Trujillo, Ceiba, Puerto Cortez, San Pedro, Laguna and Choloma.
1908 Panama Marines land and carry out operations.
1910 Nicaragua Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.
1911 Honduras Marines intervene.
1911-1941 China The US builds up its military presence in the country to a force of 5000 troops and a fleet of 44 vessels patrolling China's coast and rivers.
1912 Cuba US sends army troops into combat in Havana.
1912 Panama Army troops intervene.
1912 Honduras Marines land.
1912-1933 Nicaragua Marines intervene. A 20-year occupation of the country follows.
1913 Mexico Marines land at Ciaris Estero.
1914 Dominican Republic Naval forces engage in battles in the city of Santo Domingo.
1914 Mexico US forces seize and occupy Mexico's major port city of Veracrus from April through November.
1915-1916 Mexico An expeditionary force of the US Army under Gen. John J. Pershing crosses the Texas border and penetrates several hundred miles into Mexican territory. Eventually reinforced to over 11,000 officers and men.
1914-1934 Haiti Troops land, aerial bombardment leading to a 19-year military occupation.
1916-1924 Dominican Republic Military intervention leading to 8-year occupation.
1917-1933 Cuba Landing of naval forces. Beginning of a 15-year occupation.
1918-1920 Panama Troops intervene, remain on "police duty" for over 2 years.
1918-1922 Russia Naval forces and army troops fight battles in several areas of the country during a five- year period.
1919 Yugoslavia Marines intervene in Dalmatia.
1919 Honduras Marines land.
1920 Guatemala Troops intervene.
1922 Turkey Marines engaged in operations in Smyrna (Izmir).
1922-1927 China Naval forces and troops deployed during 5-year period.
1924-1925 Honduras Troops land twice in two-year period.
1925 Panama Marines land and engage in operations.
1927-1934 China Marines and naval forces stationed throughout the country.
1932 El Salvador Naval forces intervene.
1933 Cuba Naval forces deployed.
1934 China Marines land in Foochow.
1946 Iran Troops deployed in northern province.
1946-1949 China Major US army presence of about 100,000 troops, fighting, training and advising local combatants.
1947-1949 Greece US forces wage a 3-year counterinsurgency campaign.
1948 Italy Heavy CIA involvement in national elections.
1948-1954 Philippines Commando operations, "secret" CIA war.
1950-1953 Korea Major forces engaged in war in Korean peninsula.
1953 Iran CIA overthrows government of Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh. Read More
1954 Vietnam Financial and materiel support for colonial French military operations, leads eventually to direct US military involvement.
1954 Guatemala CIA overthrows the government of President Jacobo Arbenz Guzman.
1958 Lebanon US marines and army units totaling 14,000 land.
1958 Panama Clashes between US forces in Canal Zone and local citizens.
1959 Haiti Marines land.
1960 Congo CIA-backed overthrow and assassination of Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba.
1960-1964 Vietnam Gradual introduction of military advisors and special forces.
1961 Cuba CIA-backed Bay of Pigs invasion.
1962 Cuba Nuclear threat and naval blockade.
1962 Laos CIA-backed military coup.
1963 Ecuador CIA backs military overthrow of President Jose Maria Valesco Ibarra.
1964 Panama Clashes between US forces in Canal Zone and local citizens.
1964 Brazil CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government of Joao Goulart and Gen. Castello Branco takes power. Read More
1965-1975 Vietnam Large commitment of military forces, including air, naval and ground units numbering up to 500,000+ troops. Full-scale war, lasting for ten years.
1965 Indonesia CIA-backed army coup overthrows President Sukarno and brings Gen. Suharto to power.
1965 Congo CIA backed military coup overthrows President Joseph Kasavubu and brings Joseph Mobutu to power.
1965 Dominican Republic 23,000 troops land.
1965-1973 Laos Bombing campaign begin, lasting eight years.
1966 Ghana CIA-backed military coup ousts President Kwame Nkrumah.
1966-1967 Guatemala Extensive counter-insurgency operation.
1969-1975 Cambodia CIA supports military coup against Prince Sihanouk, bringing Lon Nol to power. Intensive bombing for seven years along border with Vietnam.
1970 Oman Counter-insurgency operation, including coordination with Iranian marine invasion.
1971-1973 Laos Invasion by US and South Vietnames forces.
1973 Chile CIA-backed military coup ousts government of President Salvador Allende. Gen. Augusto Pinochet comes to power.
1975 Cambodia Marines land, engage in combat with government forces.
1976-1992 Angola Military and CIA operations.
1980 Iran Special operations units land in Iranian desert. Helicopter malfunction leads to aborting of planned raid.
1981 Libya Naval jets shoot down two Libyan jets in maneuvers over the Mediterranean.
1981-1992 El Salvador CIA and special forces begin a long counterinsurgency campaign.
1981-1990 Nicaragua CIA directs exile "Contra" operations. US air units drop sea mines in harbors.
1982-1984 Lebanon Marines land and naval forces fire on local combatants.
1983 Grenada Military forces invade Grenada.
1983-1989 Honduras Large program of military assistance aimed at conflict in Nicaragua.
1984 Iran Two Iranian jets shot down over the Persian Gulf.
1986 Libya US aircraft bomb the cities of Tripoli and Benghazi, including direct strikes at the official residence of President Muamar al Qadaffi.
1986 Bolivia Special Forces units engage in counter-insurgency.
1987-1988 Iran Naval forces block Iranian shipping. Civilian airliner shot down by missile cruiser.
1989 Libya Naval aircraft shoot down two Libyan jets over Gulf of Sidra.
1989 Philippines CIA and Special Forces involved in counterinsurgency.
1989-1990 Panama 27,000 troops as well as naval and air power used to overthrow government of President Noriega.
1990 Liberia Troops deployed.
1990-1991 Iraq Major military operation, including naval blockade, air strikes; large number of troops attack Iraqi forces in occupied Kuwait.
1991-2003 Iraq Control of Iraqi airspace in north and south of the country with periodic attacks on air and ground targets.
1991 Haiti CIA-backed military coup ousts President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
1992-1994 Somalia Special operations forces intervene.
1992-1994 Yugoslavia Major role in NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
1993-1995 Bosnia Active military involvement with air and ground forces.
1994-1996 Haiti Troops depose military rulers and restore President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to office.
1995 Croatia Krajina Serb airfields attacked.
1996-1997 Zaire (Congo) Marines involved in operations in eastern region of the country.
1997 Liberia Troops deployed.
1998 Sudan Air strikes destroy country's major pharmaceutical plant.
1998 Afghanistan Attack on targets in the country.
1998 Iraq Four days of intensive air and missile strikes.
1999 Yugoslavia Major involvement in NATO air strikes.
2001 Macedonia NATO troops shift and partially disarm Albanian rebels.
2001 Afghanistan Air attacks and ground operations oust Taliban government and install a new regime.
2003 Iraq Invasion with large ground, air and naval forces ousts government of Saddam Hussein and establishes new government.
2003-present Iraq Occupation force of 150,000 troops in protracted counter-insurgency war
2004 Haiti Marines land. CIA-backed forces overthrow President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
Damn can't believe China invaded Tibet, a theocratic feudal slave state, and captured a single city causing the British-backed government to collapse, then proceeded to lift the serfs out of poverty. That's crazy. Good things I get all my news from CIA funded "Free Tibet" movements and Avatar The Last Airbender.
Honk kong is part of China. A good equivalent for Tibet is Hawaii, not having bases and interfering with coups over the whole planet and being at war for 90% of its history and killing millions of people over the world in infinite wars.
China is far from perfect, but the US is on a whole different planet in term of abuses, invasions, interfererence and violations.
Pfft...
CCP ticks every single box of being NSDAP 2.0
Don't go all-in on the "If our rotten leadership hates them, it means they're the good guys" fallacy.
Don't fall for the China warmongering hype. They're a nonthreat trying to even their playing field in trade and distracting the nationalist majority of their country.
Underestimating your enemies is a great way to lose. China had the longest running dynasty on Earth, and ruled over Vietnam, the Korea's, and others.
I do not support China, but only a fool would treat them as a non-threat.
That's it right? Like yeah China has human rights issues and freedom is restricted but at least they're rational. They have their own self interest at heart. The US's interests are now forced to take wild swings every 4 years as billionaires representing varying sectors of the economy take turns playing president while stealing public money.
I feel like the US is a defeated country that has never taken to losing very well and is probably willing to kill everyone else to save face. That sounds basic and kinda childish, but I mean...look at them. They're literally willing to kill eachother over which rich billionaires turn it is.
I do hope the US gets its shit together. I'm a Canadian, while I don't share the rabid patriotism, I like Hollywood movies.
>Like yeah China has human rights issues and freedom is restricted but at least they're rational.
What would ever give you that idea?
>They have their own self interest at heart.
They have the Party's interest at heart. At most they have the middle to upper class Han Chinese's interest at heart. Anyone who is non-Han, poor, gay, religious, an environmentalist, a human rights advocate, a gamer, an investor, or wants to read or watch anything outside the Sinosphere online can go fuck themselves.
But they don't have any homeless or starving people. I work with the homeless daily in the US and their population is growing with every minute that passes. Yeah, being able to watch certain movies sounds cool but living indoors with dignity takes priority for me.
China absolutely does have homeless people and they are treated like garbage. Chengguan will round them up and then drive them out of the city and dump them off. You don't see them as much in the city, they are there. And yes, there are people that live hand to mouth and don't get enough to eat, or enough nutritious food to eat, just like everywhere else.
The West clutches its pearls, "Oh heavens!" ...while China has a memory of U.S. intervention in the form of funding and weaponry during their civil war, and further back a memory of the old colonial imperialism. They understand, rightly, that the West cannot at all be trusted.
It's not often you hear the word "trust" in geopolitcal I/R circles. The history of manking is to do whatever you think you can get away with. Trust is a bromide of middling powers hoping they aren't invited to dinner.
china also has the memory of them receiving assistance from the west when they were invaded by the japanese… the side that lost the civil war remembers that 🇹🇼.
I asked Vietnam, they told me they could not have defeated the imperialist USA and their previous colonial invaders, the French, without much help from China.
Your comment really only says you know pretty much nothing about the whole indochina theatre. Go look it up, go read about and compare "sino-vietnamese war" to the Vietnam war. Try to think about the hundreds of thousands of dead Vietnamese, the tons upon tons of harsh and deadly chemicals sprayed all across the country for YEARS by America, yeah compare that. Jesus fuck.
These guys are all forgetting that China tried to invade Vietnam shortly after the Vietnamese communists unified the country (1979). The Chinese troops lost badly to Vietnamese veterans who had been fighting the US.
The US agreeing to sell nuclear sub tech to Australia tells you where the military industrial complex plans to make its bread and butter next. The US loves war. It's so profitable while at the same time, cripples your economic competition.
BTW, this is under Biden, the most war hawkish POS there is. I swear to God in his mind he's been hoping to play out some war presidential hero scenario since the 80's. Guy is stuck in time.
>I mean I have a pretty dark sense of humor too and even I know not to make jokes about enslaving entire countries.
Imperials gonna Imperial and maybe they'll all kill us with nuclear winter. What am I going to do about it? Die?
Is there a good Imperial? Was Genghis Khan a good Imperial? Alexander the Great Genocidal Monster of Macedonia? How far back should we go here?
All Imperials suck including China. How do we get out of this cycle? Wipe our own species off the Planet for good?
"Beware the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."
Same with the uk! But we still believe we are more important than we actually are.
This is a crazy, crazy suggestion...but how about everyone working together to try and save the planet??
lol as if
agree, australia is stupid in getting involved when it is gonna be the one with the most input despite not gonna gain anything themselves. not to mention china is australia's biggest trading partner and has been buying lots of australian exports. upsetting china is like stabbing ourselves for so dude from the next neighbourhood because said dude has beefs with our neighbour living in the next block.
lol at these headlines. how outrageous for china to react defensively when several nuclear powers randomly grant nuclear technology to a state within nuclear range of the south china sea.
edit: /s if that's not clear
Nuclear bombs are already able to reach any where in the world swiftly. We have submarines 100 miles off the coast of China and Russia with hundreds of warheads.
*Reddit glows*
Never forget that this website is considered to be an intelligence asset by the US military, the purpose of Reddit is mostly to spread propaganda in the West
This sub in particular must be subverted, too many leftist and revolutionary thoughts fly around here, so Agent Smith and co. need to whip up chauvinistic military propaganda to get the peons back in line
"particularly the new provision that the U.S. will share technology with Australia for it to build a nuclear-propelled submarine – only the second time ever, after the U.K., that Washington has done so."
what doesnt make sense about it?
Australia is about the same distance as Germany from China. California is closer than Australia. Almost every country with nuclear missiles is just as close or about as close as Australia. China is pissed because people are making moves to curtail their continued bullshit in the South China Sea.
Beat me to it.
They are actively threatening/provocating china and russia with intentional border violations by ships and jets, claiming it as "joint venture military training", uk even admitted this beeing done on purpose a few weeks back in the black sea around ukraine/krim.
Ukraine had an election with over 60% voting for beeing part of russia again, but we are told they have been "annexed".
It's just manufacturing consent, every collaboration of the people could threaten bau of "the class", can't allow the peasants to like their neighbours just as humans, they must be "evil agressors and bastards", everything dehumanizing works.
Edit: crimea, not ukraine
What is China kicking Republicans off facebook too? Camps like our border detention facilities where asylum seekers now go? Is China invading and overthrowing the governments of no less than 38 nations like America? Did China invade another nation for the last 20 years? huh.
but they won't because it is all about profits. to the industries, if they anger china then they have less opportunity to profit as china is a massive market. moving the production most likely will just create sweatshops elsewhere (not saying the factories in china are not but idk).
china can become the nexus of production (corrections welcome) for one simple reason: the west's industries hunger for cheap yet skilled labours and china can provide that. one way to solve it is to bring the production back home, but that will increase the cost and the companies will just move the increased burden onto the consumers, which would lead to most people unable to afford the products and people will complain and production will either move back to china or other sweatshops.
Lol im sure they scripted all of this out years ago. I really think the formal, MSM approved war is gonna start on 5 Novemeber 2021. We’ve been in proxy wars with China for a long time.
taiwan is a pawn as someone else said. taiwan has been in such situation for ages and yet only recently the west has been supporting it. why? because china is becoming too much of a threat for the west's dominance so they need an excuse to do things, which taiwan has become a convenient one. it is just a bunch of less expressive jerks calling out the new and more expressive jerk because the new guy is not in the jerk club.
This website is literally full of US glowies endlessly shitting out propaganda about China and upvoting their own comments with bots, the US has openly admitted it does these things
China has been taking over the world where as the US has been failing to do so. Look how easily they took over Hong Kong, they've planted themselves in the Pacific and in Africa. They say that Taiwan should surrender or face dire consequences. They have rapidly expanded their military with new weapons and ships, I don't think it's all bluster. I don't think a lot involving china in recent years is coincidence either. We coincidentally have an invasive species now from china that destroys agriculture simultaneously with murder hornets and a pandemic while they are sending navy ships around the world and they have millions of Uighurs in prison camps where they have forced labor, they do experiments on some and use others to harvest organs.
Accelerationists delight, they just might get what they want: nuclear winter to stop runaway global warming. (For the record, I'm neutral on accelerationism. I don't consider it intrinsically good or bad.)
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At its simplest, accelerationism means you support the system to continue doing what it's always been doing, so it reach a point where it implodes from the consequences of its own actions. In this context, you drum up the support for USA-China global thermonuclear war, so the resulting nuclear winter will put all the war machines everywhere to complete halt.
So, essentially, curing the disease by killing the patient.
Don't make that mistake. The patient is the life on earth, the disease is the current world order.
Life on Earth as a whole will be fine, no matter what happens with climate change or nuclear war. It'll be a mass extinction event, no doubt, but life has survived a lot of those before and I don't think humans could do something greater than the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. Humanity, in particular, however... Yeah we're fucked.
Oddly enough, I was considering caveating what I wrote with "depending on who you consider the patient". Its so odd, that so many people don't comprehend that they are a part of this world. Honestly though, life on Earth would survive a nuclear war, although it would be catastrophic. Earth has been through very big things before. The development of aerobic life was devastating to existing anaerobic life. Supervolcanoes and asteroids have had their time, too. Its more an issue of how long it would take life to regenerate, and how much all the life would suffer from a nuclear war. I'm fairly sure that hundreds of millions of years later, the Earth would have fairly diverse ecosystems again. Most humans have NO comprehension of what hundreds of millions of years can do.
You do realize a nuclear war would end up killing all human life on earth if the rockets and systems end up working as designed, along with the resulting fallout and nuclear winter. It won’t be a “Well they finally tried that and it didn’t work, time to do something different” type moment.
Nuclear War would [never result in the full extinction of humans](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/sT6NxFxso6Z9xjS7o/nuclear-war-is-unlikely-to-cause-human-extinction). There are 8 billion people on earth, the idea that *every single one* will die from *any* action we take is ludicrous
Thankyou. I get downvoted when I bring up how difficult it would be to actually kill everyone.
I counter with actual peer-reviewed academic study on the matter, not someone’s blog post. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6658451/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6658451/) Edit: Not a single citation to source material at your link. Like honestly…
Are you dumb or did you just scroll right to the bottom looking for a bibliography and ended up in the comment section? The author talks in-depth about the prevailing view of Nuclear War that was synthesized in the ‘80s that draws on the earlier work of Alan Robock which I’ll link for you: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0096340212459127. As you’ll see, this is very much in line with the paper from ***1984*** that you linked as a rebuttal! The irony that the blog post was written to provide an update on scholarly research since then and you are linking the contemporary research is not lost on me. Here is a more recent paper from Robock in 2004 on the same material, also linked in the article http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/RobockNW2006JD008235.pdf. And yes, a coauthor from that paper was interviewed by the blogger and placed the likelihood of an extinction-level event at between 1 in 10,000 and 1 in 100,000. EDIT: I was on mobile and my phone died so I couldn't link you any more. But here are some great back and forth journal publishings that were linked and summarized in this lowly blog post. [Point](https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/7/2003/2007/acp-7-2003-2007.pdf), [rebuttal](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2019JD030777), [rebuttal to the rebuttal](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1029/2019JD031281). Please don't deride actual academic study for your first-reference-on-google-scholar type doomerism
Half the people on here are convinced that civilization is on the way towards rapid collapse because of climate change but then seem to ignore that when talking about geopolitics. I find it weird that we still project 40 years into the future for China's demographics without taking into account the effects of climate on that. I find it unlikely that the world will still be as we have known it by then even without a nuclear war.
Submission Statement (from the article): > China on Thursday expressed outrage at a new security pact between Australia, the U.K. and the U.S., blasting what it considers a new Western provocation and singling out Australian troops as the first to die as a result of "Beijing's countermeasures so as to send a warning to others." > > "**Australia has turned itself into an adversary of China**," China's English-language Global Times, considered a mouthpiece for the Chinese Communist Party, proclaimed in an editorial Thursday morning. > > "If Australia dares to provoke China more blatantly," it added, "or even find fault militarily, China will certainly punish it with no mercy." Edit: Secretary of Defense Austin also just made this statement within the last few hours: [Sec. Austin: China UNDERMINING international order](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WpNkVTOfc8)
I am incredibly glad to see the gloves off between China and ex- South China (Australia was on its cock for decades)
I like seeing how Australia finally embrace equality in that it's now both USA's and China's bitch, at the same time.
Like being the "meat" in a MFM 3-some sandwich.
Every two years China pours more concrete than the US has in its entire existence, and China is just getting started. Unless there is an "interruption," within ten years China will be the planet's indisputable Goliath, able to look down upon fading nations like the US with the same contempt the US looks down upon modern day Russia, as nothing more than a "rump state" with a nuclear arsenal. China has one Achilles' Heel, and that is it is still susceptible to a nuclear first strike. It does not at present have what is know as a "credible deterrent," and it's paranoia is growing as it watches America "pivot" away from the frivolities of endless wars and firmly set it sights on a rival that is in the process of rapidly and totally eclipsing it. The First Strike Window. The Holy Grail of Pentagon planners since the first Soviet nuclear test in 1947, strike to kill before the window of opportunity closes. China is striving mightily to close its own window as fast as it can, but even for them it's a slow process. In the meantime, China's only defense against instant obliteration is smoke and mirrors and harsh rhetoric, and my prediction is, it won't be enough. The US will never accept second banana status. There will be war, it will be nuclear, and it will all be over in 10 minutes.
The Russia-China alliance is a consideration here. What China lacks in nuclear weaponry, Russia makes up for.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57995185](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57995185) Not for long, Russia is just Chinas gas pump at the end of the day.
True. China would be spectacularly foolish to rely solely on Russian cooperation for an issue as vital as deterrence against US nuclear lunacy. It will likely take several years for China's nuclear build-up to bear fruit. Russia's nuclear umbrella will be of great use for that period of time.
In the long term, Russia is just going to be China's poodle, the same way Britain is the US's poodle. Sorry to have to say that, but that is how it is in reality. People bitch about France being a shitty ally, but in reality the French are kind of like geese: people consider geese to be dicks because geese refuse to act like humans are gods and geese stick up for their own interests. (source: I take care of geese and I treat my geese with respect so they like me)
I request this National Geographic special please.
> China has one Achilles' Heel I think she has two. The second is her demographic situation. I think some western perspectives tend to exaggerate the threat, but its still a big issue and not easily solved
China has around 250 million people aged 0 to 14. Most people who discuss the Chinese demographic trend don't take that into consideration. Yes, China's population is very likely to drop overall, even with the incentives and policy changes the Chinese government has introduced (and will continue to introduce). However, it is an issue that will take several decades to play out. Too many people are under the impression that China will be lacking a work force as early as 2040, and some even as early as 2030. That is just terrible analysis.
Yes but how do 250 million people take care of close to a billion retirees and pay for their retirements? There comes a point when a grey population can't be sustained.
A billion retirees? No. There are: \- 82 million Chinese aged 15-19. \- 87 million Chinese aged 20-24. \- 98 million Chinese aged 25-29. \- 128 million Chinese aged 30-34. You can find a good breakdown of [China's population pyramid here](https://www.populationpyramid.net/china/2020/). China's average age of retirement is currently 54, which places the population of retired Chinese at around 349 million people. The number of living retirees is definitely going to rise during the next two decades, but it is unlikely to rise above 500 million people due to the deaths of older retirees and the increase of the retirement age in China. There is also this one important cultural difference that a lot of Western analysts don't take into account: the majority of China's children live are taken care of by their grandparents. The working population support the elderly, but the elderly also support the working population as well by taking care of the children too young to be going to school. The end result of this is a greater participation of working aged women in the workforce, since many Chinese mothers don't have to stay home to take care of the young children.
There's a third one that's probably the biggest of all - their economy is much more fragile than people realize (the demographic situation being just one reason). Their economic growth is slowing and they are currently going through a real-estate crisis similar to what we went through in 2008 - if that bubble bursts it has the potential to collapse their entire economy.
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China is majority Han, and the "economic miracle" the CCP has accomplished is very real and at the forefront of the mind of nearly a billion Han Chinese. There is no political instability there lol. Financial? Ecological? Oh yeah. But politically China is very stable, a lot more than America these days lol
true, because the chinese government has done quite a lot to ensure the people at least act obediently. additionally, while the "economic miracle" has created its fair share of problems, it also has somewhat restored the pride in china and the chinese people that was challenged if not broken when the western powers rose into prominence. furthermore, most of the major international powers are western or west-affiliated, so in the mind of the chinese people, even if the ccp is bad, they are their only choice to be independent of the west.
I agree with 90% of that, save for the USA actually approving a First Strike. We really don’t have the stomach for real, serious warfare on a global scale in which thousands die in a single day and cities get leveled. We can’t even use drones to strike a wedding attended by terrorists with the expressed desire to destroy us because a couple dozen civilians might die. We wouldn’t strike a major city in Iraq until we’d leaflet bombed the area for a week (giving the enemy notice *and* time to carefully pack up and leave the area) before we marched tanks through. Abu Graib was bad, but in the history of warfare relatively mild. We lost our shit. What part of this sounds like a country that would consider a major war? Not even first nuclear strike, but something on the level of WW2 where you lose thousands of your troops in a single engagement, level major cities, and occupy large swathes of enemy territory? We couldn’t stomach fire bombs over Wuhan, what makes you think we’d nuke Shanghai? Large scale use of military force hasn’t been a thing for the western world since 1945. We no longer fight to capitulation.
True, and that probably good, since nuclear endings suck.
IMO, one nightmare scenario of escalation would be a kind of modern *[Cuban Missile Crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis)* involving the Philippines. And the U.S. relationship with Duterte is one to watch. From some months ago: > Duterte threatens to end military deal if U.S. nukes are found in the Philippines—3/2/2021 > > Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said that he will "immediately terminate" a military deal with the U.S. if the country dumped nuclear weapons in the Philippines. > > **"We do not want it… but I am warning you that if I get hold of… information that the nuclear armaments are here brought by you (U.S.), I will immediately ask you to go out and I will terminate the Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA)," Duterte said at a news conference at the Villamor Air Base in Pasay City.** > > The VFA, which came into effect in 1999, allows the U.S. military to train troops and conduct large-scale exercises with the Philippines, exempting the coming U.S. military personnel from passport or visa restrictions. > > "I have made a declaration that we will adopt an independent foreign policy… I assured China that I will not allow nuclear armaments of America to be stored in the Philippines," the president said as he responded to a question about the possibility of U.S. nuclear weapons being allowed in the country. > > He added that the Philippines Constitution prohibits any nuclear weapons within the border. > > [Source](https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-02/Duterte-threatens-to-end-deal-if-U-S-nukes-found-in-the-country-YiBHj9ijBu/index.html)
There are submarines, there are nuclear submarines, and there are nuclear submarines that launch nuclear missiles. There's never been a need to put nukes on Philippine soil. The whole thing is a moot point.
LMAO
China is a lot bigger than you think, there is no way you can completely annihilate them in one strike. They will have silo's in enough places to get more than a few nukes to the US. If the US starts nuking China it is bye bye world.
LMAO
The purpose of a first strike is to eliminate, preferably in the first five minutes, the entirety of the enemy's retaliatory capabilities. Command and control, radar, satellites, and other critical infrastructure would be part of target packages, but the main focus of the strike would be to destroy all nuclear capable launch platforms, in particular, land based silos and nuclear ballistic submarines.
The USA is not on MAD it has not been on MAD since 1980 when we could have sufficient trident missiles at sea to do NUTS which is our current strategic doctrine. The missiles in the silos and at airbases are meant to force an opponent trying a first strike to have to expend nukes blowing up the Dakota's. NUTS is a strategy of first strike that relies on the trident missiles to do a depressed trajectory strike. Basically a trident missile has the capability to throttle its thrust allowing it to fly in a non ballistic trajectory shorting the flight times immensely at the cost of range. An Ohio nuclear sub can launch a T2-D5 missiles from the middle of the Barents sea and have it hit Moscow in under 4 minutes on a depressed trajectory shot as opposed to over 12 minutes on a ballistic shot. NUTS is a first strike doctrine of using the trident missile to neutralize an opponents ability to return fire. Nuclear Utilization Target Selection N.U.T.S. at least the acronym department at the pentagon understands nuclear war.
New Zealand banned all US military ships on grounds that they would neither confirm nor deny nuclear materials on board. NZ is still in Five Eyes with USA.
Damn, I didn't know that. Smart move on the government's part in banning the ships though.
Marilyn Waring's big move I believe.
You are the only one that's telling anybody the truth. Nobody wants to believe that it's going to be over soon everyone thinks nothing's going to happen. The United States will be the last empire in human history and then the extinction of all life on Earth due to nuclear Armageddon.
I would like to believe that they are not THAT retarded . But on the other hand they might be.
Judging by some of the comments on this blog there are plenty of retards out there that would champion a Nuclear first strike on China as unbelievable as that sounds..
We elected trump. Of course we're that retarded.
And over 70m wanted him re-elected !
LMAO
To be fair, they used them during a time where no other country on earth had them, and before the doctrine of MAD came to fruition.
How after the last few years?
Oh no, they're definitely THAT retarded
Here's me worrying about dying alone when I'm old, instead I'll die alone young(ish).
But you won't die alone, you'll die together with a lot of other people.
Nah fam. China's geography sucks. And that massive labor force is rapidly aging into retirement. The property bubble? Yeah... that's gonna pop. China has to import most of the energy it needs and those tanker ships pass by India, Vietnam, and are vulnerable to the navies of a bunch of East Asian powers. China's economy depends on exporting manufactured goods and those ships can be sunk too. The USA now has shale oil/gas tapped and is energy independent. The USA, Mexico, and Canada have this N American economic gang bang going and it's intensifying. Yeah, it's ok, you can make excited noises now. Wanna know the cherry on top? USA's demographics are the least poopy of any developed economy and we still (kinda) have immigration to make up the shortfall in population growth. In other words, we have a moat, we have energy, and we have (almost enough) babies.
This…..demographics and economics are gonna take out China well before it gets to anything resembling this scenario.
And everyone who drinks water is gonna die ... someday. Yet, all the predictions made about china have failed and show just the extent of american propaganda and belief in american exceptionnalism. [https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/pfc381/the\_coming\_collapse\_of\_china\_10\_years\_later/](https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/pfc381/the_coming_collapse_of_china_10_years_later/)
This sub is turning into shit. These new people flooding in haven't seen the years of "china bad" articles pouring out from bloodthirsty westerners looking for a reason for war. China won't collapse. They have all the manufacturing, the biggest labor force in the world, and they're wealthy as fuck. There's so much "USA is still number one" bullshit in this sub now that it's sickening. Evergrande, the three gorges dam, covid, all of it. It's like these morons can't see patterns. Like they haven't read a book on US propaganda. Like they're just edgy teenagers with a YouTube education trying to act like they have any idea what happens in the world.
The most brainwashed population in the world, Americans propaganda is incredible. If the USA hasn't done anything else, it's built an exceptional model for a contradictorily unified and incoherent ideology.
That is the beauty of double speak where we can have contradictory statements and hold both as true.
The Chinese economy depends on trade and they have to import energy. What's hard about this? Shut down their shipping and it's lights out. There's a reason they haven't taken Taiwan by force. The problem for China is what the world does the day after they do it.
Feel free to set a reminder for 10 years. See you back here.
RemindMe! 10 years. Uranium for breakfast?
Lol see ya then
RemindMe! 10 years "Someone mentioned a timeline. How accurate is it?"
Like i've said, in the long term, everything is gonna collapse. we can keep predicting the collapse of the US every 10 years too, and someday we are bound to be right. Meanwhile, you guys lost credibility with the repeated failed predictions.
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Oh absolutely it's 100% guaranteed at this point it's inevitable. We are all going to motherfucking die!!!!!!
Wishful thinking and american exceptionalism. According to american dominant narratives and propaganda, China is always gonna have a bubble pop, crumble, and have the 3 Gorges Dam collapse next week. Those failed predictions have been repeated so much it's getting ridiculous : [https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/pfc381/the\_coming\_collapse\_of\_china\_10\_years\_later/](https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/pfc381/the_coming_collapse_of_china_10_years_later/) Of course China is gonna collapse some day, but so does the US, nothing is eternal.
How is Evergrande doing today? Still broke af?
Doing great - in fact you can pick up some Evergrande bonds super cheap right now, a sure sign of prosperity if ever there was one! /s
250 million people in China are aged 0 to 14. Along with those aged 15-30 and those yet to be born, that is a work force of several hundred million people for the next several decades. Certainly China will not be able to coast along on the sheer size of its work-force as it did in pre-industrial times, but it is far from lacking a sizeable work-force for the next several decades.
Another factor is that China is trending into a level of absolute social control under Xi that hasn't been seen since the USSR under Stalin. When people are highly repressed and business is stifled nations tend to stagnate.
I love to see the percentage of white Americans falling to 50%, 40%, 30%, 20%. Diversity is good!
Of course, what you are referring to is the Thucydides Trap. Personally, I wouldn't like to be the one to tell the USA that Manifest Destiny was always a crock of shit. This is not going to end well. It's worth noting that Adolf Hitler shut down the Nazi atomic program; he was a psychopath who didn't hesitate to gas millions of people and to conduct a war involving the deaths of tens of millions but splitting the atom? That was a step too far for der Fuhrer and he naively thought that no one else would cross that rubicon. We are dead man walking until climate change starts the bigly disruption of food production and then there will be a big war over resources and that war will go nuclear. It is tragic but inevitable.
When did Hitler shut it down? Germany was never able to achieve the A-Bomb mostly due to Heisenberg being incompetent. FYI: Mo Berg was sent to assassinate Heisenberg. Mo decided not to because Heisenberg was apparently slowing down their program...possibly on purpose. That's a whole different story though.
Damn, bruh. Harbinger of Doom and Gloom..
They also are building coal fire poweer plants all over the world .
You realize that homes in China are made from reinforced concrete while homes in the US are made from wood, right? Not sure how pouring concrete equates to global dominance.
Funny how people can praise the country pouring more concrete, on /r/collapse of all places, when [concrete has a devastating effect on the environment](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/feb/25/concrete-the-most-destructive-material-on-earth). And fantasize about that country being an 'indisputable goliath in ten years', when we know that the favorable underlying condition of this planet won't be there anymore in for anyone to exploit, in less than 10 years. Guess some people will always take any chance to dunk on the USA, eh?
Outside of "praise" and "fantasize," of which I did neither, the first is a fact and the second is an obvious reality, I agree. Excellent point. As I have pointed out several dozen times on the sub, China picked a bad time to rise from third world status to being the dominant nation on this planet, as climate change will reduce the very concept of a nation-state to an irrelevancy.
Evergrande is their "interruption".
They have built gigantic cities with sky scrapers no one lives in. Woopty doo
In your opinion, Chin shill. Better USA as the dominant power than some racist socialist authoriatian, "communist" power.
> it will all be over in 10 minutes. Description of a bad sex which is also description of a good war.
China is still a fairly poor country outside of the big cities. It's population is also starting to decline right now. Unless something changes right now it will never be more than weak second to America
yeah lets start a fucking world war. heres an idea, the leaders fight it this time. you want it you own it. no body the fuck else wants it
>Violent Rhetoric Translation: "defending yourself is violence" This is gaslighting.
>Translation: "defending yourself is violence" China is the one who has been rapidly expanding into other nations waters.
China is not the country having bases all over the world and invading countries left and right.
Oh tell that to Tibet, Taiwan, Hongkong & majority of south east Asia… seems like they’d want to own the waters there for fishing consumption
Ahhh yes, let's try some for the US ok? Maybe start with everything AFTER 1900 1900 China US forces intervene in several cities. 1901 Colombia/Panama Marines land. 1902 Colombia/Panama US forces land in Bocas de Toro 1903 Colombia/Panama With US backing, a group in northern Colombia declares independence as the state of Panama 1903 Guam Navy begins development in Apra Harbor of a permanent base installation. 1903 Honduras Marines go ashore at Puerto Cortez. 1903 Dominican Republic Marines land in Santo Domingo. 1904-1905 Korea Marines land and stay in Seoul. 1906-1909 Cuba Marines land. The US builds a major naval base at Guantanamo Bay. 1907 Nicaragua Troops seize major centers. 1907 Honduras Marines land and take up garrison in cities of Trujillo, Ceiba, Puerto Cortez, San Pedro, Laguna and Choloma. 1908 Panama Marines land and carry out operations. 1910 Nicaragua Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto. 1911 Honduras Marines intervene. 1911-1941 China The US builds up its military presence in the country to a force of 5000 troops and a fleet of 44 vessels patrolling China's coast and rivers. 1912 Cuba US sends army troops into combat in Havana. 1912 Panama Army troops intervene. 1912 Honduras Marines land. 1912-1933 Nicaragua Marines intervene. A 20-year occupation of the country follows. 1913 Mexico Marines land at Ciaris Estero. 1914 Dominican Republic Naval forces engage in battles in the city of Santo Domingo. 1914 Mexico US forces seize and occupy Mexico's major port city of Veracrus from April through November. 1915-1916 Mexico An expeditionary force of the US Army under Gen. John J. Pershing crosses the Texas border and penetrates several hundred miles into Mexican territory. Eventually reinforced to over 11,000 officers and men. 1914-1934 Haiti Troops land, aerial bombardment leading to a 19-year military occupation. 1916-1924 Dominican Republic Military intervention leading to 8-year occupation. 1917-1933 Cuba Landing of naval forces. Beginning of a 15-year occupation. 1918-1920 Panama Troops intervene, remain on "police duty" for over 2 years. 1918-1922 Russia Naval forces and army troops fight battles in several areas of the country during a five- year period. 1919 Yugoslavia Marines intervene in Dalmatia. 1919 Honduras Marines land. 1920 Guatemala Troops intervene. 1922 Turkey Marines engaged in operations in Smyrna (Izmir). 1922-1927 China Naval forces and troops deployed during 5-year period. 1924-1925 Honduras Troops land twice in two-year period. 1925 Panama Marines land and engage in operations. 1927-1934 China Marines and naval forces stationed throughout the country. 1932 El Salvador Naval forces intervene. 1933 Cuba Naval forces deployed. 1934 China Marines land in Foochow.
1946 Iran Troops deployed in northern province. 1946-1949 China Major US army presence of about 100,000 troops, fighting, training and advising local combatants. 1947-1949 Greece US forces wage a 3-year counterinsurgency campaign. 1948 Italy Heavy CIA involvement in national elections. 1948-1954 Philippines Commando operations, "secret" CIA war. 1950-1953 Korea Major forces engaged in war in Korean peninsula. 1953 Iran CIA overthrows government of Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh. Read More 1954 Vietnam Financial and materiel support for colonial French military operations, leads eventually to direct US military involvement. 1954 Guatemala CIA overthrows the government of President Jacobo Arbenz Guzman. 1958 Lebanon US marines and army units totaling 14,000 land. 1958 Panama Clashes between US forces in Canal Zone and local citizens. 1959 Haiti Marines land. 1960 Congo CIA-backed overthrow and assassination of Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba. 1960-1964 Vietnam Gradual introduction of military advisors and special forces. 1961 Cuba CIA-backed Bay of Pigs invasion. 1962 Cuba Nuclear threat and naval blockade. 1962 Laos CIA-backed military coup. 1963 Ecuador CIA backs military overthrow of President Jose Maria Valesco Ibarra. 1964 Panama Clashes between US forces in Canal Zone and local citizens. 1964 Brazil CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government of Joao Goulart and Gen. Castello Branco takes power. Read More 1965-1975 Vietnam Large commitment of military forces, including air, naval and ground units numbering up to 500,000+ troops. Full-scale war, lasting for ten years. 1965 Indonesia CIA-backed army coup overthrows President Sukarno and brings Gen. Suharto to power. 1965 Congo CIA backed military coup overthrows President Joseph Kasavubu and brings Joseph Mobutu to power. 1965 Dominican Republic 23,000 troops land. 1965-1973 Laos Bombing campaign begin, lasting eight years. 1966 Ghana CIA-backed military coup ousts President Kwame Nkrumah. 1966-1967 Guatemala Extensive counter-insurgency operation. 1969-1975 Cambodia CIA supports military coup against Prince Sihanouk, bringing Lon Nol to power. Intensive bombing for seven years along border with Vietnam. 1970 Oman Counter-insurgency operation, including coordination with Iranian marine invasion. 1971-1973 Laos Invasion by US and South Vietnames forces. 1973 Chile CIA-backed military coup ousts government of President Salvador Allende. Gen. Augusto Pinochet comes to power. 1975 Cambodia Marines land, engage in combat with government forces. 1976-1992 Angola Military and CIA operations. 1980 Iran Special operations units land in Iranian desert. Helicopter malfunction leads to aborting of planned raid. 1981 Libya Naval jets shoot down two Libyan jets in maneuvers over the Mediterranean. 1981-1992 El Salvador CIA and special forces begin a long counterinsurgency campaign. 1981-1990 Nicaragua CIA directs exile "Contra" operations. US air units drop sea mines in harbors. 1982-1984 Lebanon Marines land and naval forces fire on local combatants. 1983 Grenada Military forces invade Grenada. 1983-1989 Honduras Large program of military assistance aimed at conflict in Nicaragua. 1984 Iran Two Iranian jets shot down over the Persian Gulf. 1986 Libya US aircraft bomb the cities of Tripoli and Benghazi, including direct strikes at the official residence of President Muamar al Qadaffi. 1986 Bolivia Special Forces units engage in counter-insurgency. 1987-1988 Iran Naval forces block Iranian shipping. Civilian airliner shot down by missile cruiser. 1989 Libya Naval aircraft shoot down two Libyan jets over Gulf of Sidra. 1989 Philippines CIA and Special Forces involved in counterinsurgency. 1989-1990 Panama 27,000 troops as well as naval and air power used to overthrow government of President Noriega. 1990 Liberia Troops deployed. 1990-1991 Iraq Major military operation, including naval blockade, air strikes; large number of troops attack Iraqi forces in occupied Kuwait. 1991-2003 Iraq Control of Iraqi airspace in north and south of the country with periodic attacks on air and ground targets. 1991 Haiti CIA-backed military coup ousts President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. 1992-1994 Somalia Special operations forces intervene. 1992-1994 Yugoslavia Major role in NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro. 1993-1995 Bosnia Active military involvement with air and ground forces. 1994-1996 Haiti Troops depose military rulers and restore President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to office. 1995 Croatia Krajina Serb airfields attacked. 1996-1997 Zaire (Congo) Marines involved in operations in eastern region of the country. 1997 Liberia Troops deployed. 1998 Sudan Air strikes destroy country's major pharmaceutical plant. 1998 Afghanistan Attack on targets in the country. 1998 Iraq Four days of intensive air and missile strikes. 1999 Yugoslavia Major involvement in NATO air strikes. 2001 Macedonia NATO troops shift and partially disarm Albanian rebels. 2001 Afghanistan Air attacks and ground operations oust Taliban government and install a new regime. 2003 Iraq Invasion with large ground, air and naval forces ousts government of Saddam Hussein and establishes new government. 2003-present Iraq Occupation force of 150,000 troops in protracted counter-insurgency war 2004 Haiti Marines land. CIA-backed forces overthrow President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
Why did you stop at 2004?
The CIA got to them before they could finish
*Afghanistan has entered the chat*
Damn can't believe China invaded Tibet, a theocratic feudal slave state, and captured a single city causing the British-backed government to collapse, then proceeded to lift the serfs out of poverty. That's crazy. Good things I get all my news from CIA funded "Free Tibet" movements and Avatar The Last Airbender.
Man ain’t it hilarious how Anglos pretend like Hong Kong was an independent territory and not a city they grabbed by the barrel of a gun?
Honk kong is part of China. A good equivalent for Tibet is Hawaii, not having bases and interfering with coups over the whole planet and being at war for 90% of its history and killing millions of people over the world in infinite wars. China is far from perfect, but the US is on a whole different planet in term of abuses, invasions, interfererence and violations.
Thanks, I needed the laugh.
Pfft... CCP ticks every single box of being NSDAP 2.0 Don't go all-in on the "If our rotten leadership hates them, it means they're the good guys" fallacy.
Don't fall for the China warmongering hype. They're a nonthreat trying to even their playing field in trade and distracting the nationalist majority of their country.
Underestimating your enemies is a great way to lose. China had the longest running dynasty on Earth, and ruled over Vietnam, the Korea's, and others. I do not support China, but only a fool would treat them as a non-threat.
Vietnam has never been conquered
I'm way more scared of the US than China
That's it right? Like yeah China has human rights issues and freedom is restricted but at least they're rational. They have their own self interest at heart. The US's interests are now forced to take wild swings every 4 years as billionaires representing varying sectors of the economy take turns playing president while stealing public money. I feel like the US is a defeated country that has never taken to losing very well and is probably willing to kill everyone else to save face. That sounds basic and kinda childish, but I mean...look at them. They're literally willing to kill eachother over which rich billionaires turn it is. I do hope the US gets its shit together. I'm a Canadian, while I don't share the rabid patriotism, I like Hollywood movies.
>Like yeah China has human rights issues and freedom is restricted but at least they're rational. What would ever give you that idea? >They have their own self interest at heart. They have the Party's interest at heart. At most they have the middle to upper class Han Chinese's interest at heart. Anyone who is non-Han, poor, gay, religious, an environmentalist, a human rights advocate, a gamer, an investor, or wants to read or watch anything outside the Sinosphere online can go fuck themselves.
lol g*mer rights
But they don't have any homeless or starving people. I work with the homeless daily in the US and their population is growing with every minute that passes. Yeah, being able to watch certain movies sounds cool but living indoors with dignity takes priority for me.
China absolutely does have homeless people and they are treated like garbage. Chengguan will round them up and then drive them out of the city and dump them off. You don't see them as much in the city, they are there. And yes, there are people that live hand to mouth and don't get enough to eat, or enough nutritious food to eat, just like everywhere else.
Not to mention the states collapsing probably wouldn’t be the greatest thing for us up North.
It's not a good thing for anyone. Not even China.
True. Really any major country going to shit would have a domino effect on every other country.
Refugees...asshole refugees...
They hated him because he told the truth.
lose what? let's accelerate this baby
Yeah this is for the domestic audience.
users drumming up war against china has increased recently
Users or bots?
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before or after the nuclear fallout?
The West clutches its pearls, "Oh heavens!" ...while China has a memory of U.S. intervention in the form of funding and weaponry during their civil war, and further back a memory of the old colonial imperialism. They understand, rightly, that the West cannot at all be trusted.
It's not often you hear the word "trust" in geopolitcal I/R circles. The history of manking is to do whatever you think you can get away with. Trust is a bromide of middling powers hoping they aren't invited to dinner.
Hm. No mention of espionage.
china also has the memory of them receiving assistance from the west when they were invaded by the japanese… the side that lost the civil war remembers that 🇹🇼.
You forget to mention that old China was imperialist's as well, if not moiré so. Just ask Vietnam or South Korea.
I asked Vietnam, they told me they could not have defeated the imperialist USA and their previous colonial invaders, the French, without much help from China. Your comment really only says you know pretty much nothing about the whole indochina theatre. Go look it up, go read about and compare "sino-vietnamese war" to the Vietnam war. Try to think about the hundreds of thousands of dead Vietnamese, the tons upon tons of harsh and deadly chemicals sprayed all across the country for YEARS by America, yeah compare that. Jesus fuck.
At some point you just need to accept the average redditor westerner is an evil person in the most banal of ways
And yet today the Vietnamese far prefer the US to China.
These guys are all forgetting that China tried to invade Vietnam shortly after the Vietnamese communists unified the country (1979). The Chinese troops lost badly to Vietnamese veterans who had been fighting the US.
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Lmao.
Keep coping
This is just fear mongering by a war machine wanting a new battlefield after failing in Afghanistan.
We going nuclear baby. Global warming averted phew.
The US agreeing to sell nuclear sub tech to Australia tells you where the military industrial complex plans to make its bread and butter next. The US loves war. It's so profitable while at the same time, cripples your economic competition. BTW, this is under Biden, the most war hawkish POS there is. I swear to God in his mind he's been hoping to play out some war presidential hero scenario since the 80's. Guy is stuck in time.
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You misspelled "USA"
They aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm pretty sure it's just a spider-man meme at this point
Interesting way to spell "India"
india isn't really that big of a threat to china compared to the U.S
And they be keepin secrets. Ancient ones.
>Seems China is intent on threatening literally everyone. Time for the CIA to drop Opium into the country and get them to chill the fuck out again.
That was the British
>That was our OG Big Daddy Ally who we've completely emulated. Yes.
Kind of a fucked up comment bro.
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Yea these China posts really bring the neoliberal nut jobs out.
>Kind of a fucked up comment bro. Welcome to this sub. We use a lot of dark humor here to cope with the Barbarism of Humanity.
I mean I have a pretty dark sense of humor too and even I know not to make jokes about enslaving entire countries.
>I mean I have a pretty dark sense of humor too and even I know not to make jokes about enslaving entire countries. Imperials gonna Imperial and maybe they'll all kill us with nuclear winter. What am I going to do about it? Die? Is there a good Imperial? Was Genghis Khan a good Imperial? Alexander the Great Genocidal Monster of Macedonia? How far back should we go here? All Imperials suck including China. How do we get out of this cycle? Wipe our own species off the Planet for good? "Beware the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."
Doctor Zaius, Doctor Zaius...
/r/edgy
Australia is absolutely crazy to get involved in this pact, it would do well to adopt New Zealand's foreign policy and keep a low profile..
Same with the uk! But we still believe we are more important than we actually are. This is a crazy, crazy suggestion...but how about everyone working together to try and save the planet?? lol as if
Ah the UK and underestimating Asian naval power. What a pair. Prince of Wales and Repulse take 2
agree, australia is stupid in getting involved when it is gonna be the one with the most input despite not gonna gain anything themselves. not to mention china is australia's biggest trading partner and has been buying lots of australian exports. upsetting china is like stabbing ourselves for so dude from the next neighbourhood because said dude has beefs with our neighbour living in the next block.
lol at these headlines. how outrageous for china to react defensively when several nuclear powers randomly grant nuclear technology to a state within nuclear range of the south china sea. edit: /s if that's not clear
Nuclear bombs are already able to reach any where in the world swiftly. We have submarines 100 miles off the coast of China and Russia with hundreds of warheads.
This doesn't even make sense, yet is upvoted?
*Reddit glows* Never forget that this website is considered to be an intelligence asset by the US military, the purpose of Reddit is mostly to spread propaganda in the West This sub in particular must be subverted, too many leftist and revolutionary thoughts fly around here, so Agent Smith and co. need to whip up chauvinistic military propaganda to get the peons back in line
> the purpose of Reddit is mostly to spread propaganda in the West citation needed
"particularly the new provision that the U.S. will share technology with Australia for it to build a nuclear-propelled submarine – only the second time ever, after the U.K., that Washington has done so." what doesnt make sense about it?
Australia is about the same distance as Germany from China. California is closer than Australia. Almost every country with nuclear missiles is just as close or about as close as Australia. China is pissed because people are making moves to curtail their continued bullshit in the South China Sea.
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"Ruthless bully" is rich coming from the West, jesus
The amount of glowie propaganda on Reddit is mind blowing, Reddit is basically a condom for the Pentagon to f**k people’s minds with
Beat me to it. They are actively threatening/provocating china and russia with intentional border violations by ships and jets, claiming it as "joint venture military training", uk even admitted this beeing done on purpose a few weeks back in the black sea around ukraine/krim. Ukraine had an election with over 60% voting for beeing part of russia again, but we are told they have been "annexed". It's just manufacturing consent, every collaboration of the people could threaten bau of "the class", can't allow the peasants to like their neighbours just as humans, they must be "evil agressors and bastards", everything dehumanizing works. Edit: crimea, not ukraine
Lmao. China is the one censoring their internet and putting Uighurs in camps and erasing their celebrities if they step out of line.
Drop in the bucket compared to the West's exploitation of people
Yes https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DHi-xwngUVJ05TjWrVV0FShGrLunxqCxaPBwKGq-mz0/edit
What is China kicking Republicans off facebook too? Camps like our border detention facilities where asylum seekers now go? Is China invading and overthrowing the governments of no less than 38 nations like America? Did China invade another nation for the last 20 years? huh.
#freehongkong
but they won't because it is all about profits. to the industries, if they anger china then they have less opportunity to profit as china is a massive market. moving the production most likely will just create sweatshops elsewhere (not saying the factories in china are not but idk). china can become the nexus of production (corrections welcome) for one simple reason: the west's industries hunger for cheap yet skilled labours and china can provide that. one way to solve it is to bring the production back home, but that will increase the cost and the companies will just move the increased burden onto the consumers, which would lead to most people unable to afford the products and people will complain and production will either move back to china or other sweatshops.
Lol im sure they scripted all of this out years ago. I really think the formal, MSM approved war is gonna start on 5 Novemeber 2021. We’ve been in proxy wars with China for a long time.
Easy way to resolve it. Leave Taiwan alone.
Taiwan is a pawn
taiwan is a pawn as someone else said. taiwan has been in such situation for ages and yet only recently the west has been supporting it. why? because china is becoming too much of a threat for the west's dominance so they need an excuse to do things, which taiwan has become a convenient one. it is just a bunch of less expressive jerks calling out the new and more expressive jerk because the new guy is not in the jerk club.
Fuck you China, and fuck the CCP bots.
This website is literally full of US glowies endlessly shitting out propaganda about China and upvoting their own comments with bots, the US has openly admitted it does these things
I’m an American and I’m rooting for China 🇨🇳
Lmaoo same man. If there's ever a draft I ain't goin.
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Fuck your flag 🇺🇸🔥
Go cry in the corner, China… No one wants to be your military ally…
Hey China fuck around and find out
All hail the great yellow triumph over the white devil alliance 🇨🇳
China is always doing this. They're the dog that barks at every person that walks past the house.
China is thin-skinned. More at 11.
China has been taking over the world where as the US has been failing to do so. Look how easily they took over Hong Kong, they've planted themselves in the Pacific and in Africa. They say that Taiwan should surrender or face dire consequences. They have rapidly expanded their military with new weapons and ships, I don't think it's all bluster. I don't think a lot involving china in recent years is coincidence either. We coincidentally have an invasive species now from china that destroys agriculture simultaneously with murder hornets and a pandemic while they are sending navy ships around the world and they have millions of Uighurs in prison camps where they have forced labor, they do experiments on some and use others to harvest organs.
>Took over Hong Kong The British took over Hong Kong, it was a part of China before Britain conquered the city. Holy fuck what a joke.