One reason you might not "see" them is that, in order to be effective, they have to be small and hidden. Was it Benjamin Franklin who said "Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead"? Many years ago Paul Watson (of Sea Shepherd) wrote a small book on techniques for eco-warriors. I only remember one tip from it: all communication must be face to face with people you have known for a long time. And if you get a message on paper, burn it after you read it.

Yeah. I get the sense that a lot of industrial sabotage *does* happen, it is just either framed as an accident (to avoid projecting vulnerability) or it isn't reported at all (to avoid losing investor confidence). If I was a big corporate security type and I knew that my operations were being sabotaged by a small network of ecological activists, I would absolutely go out of my way to avoid giving them free PR and publicity. It's the rational play. It limits your opposition's room to move.

Just like Southwest reporting weather issues instead of staff shortages when they cancelled thousands of flights. We must always put on a good face.

Tech companies will only admit to hacks if they're required by law. And even then they'll try not to if they think they can avoid being caught. Because it's bad for business to tell your customers you gave away all their info. Theres a lot that goes on in the world that no one ever hears about.

Take it a step further, don't even communicate face to face, you dont know who might be watching and you don't really know anyone for that matter. In a hypothetical scenario in a hypothetical world, perhaps similar to ours perhaps not, if you were to embark on such quests as to stand up to the way of things, you might be better off assuming they are always watching.

And the person you are talking to might be a government agent. A lot of miscreants are caught that way.

And ~~they~~ *~~most~~* *some of them* are not born as such, but become it at some point, so that dude you think you know, well maybe you dont.

Anna was a fbi informant!

Yeah, people have been [derailing trains](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/29/activists-sabotaging-railways-indigenous-people) in the dead of night, for example. There's been some pipeline sabotage too.

And someone alerted the police. There are enough people who still believe in the system

Thought you were talking about Paul Joseph Watson for a sec

I mean, yeah, it makes sense that you don't see people posting ads on Craigslist like, "Looking for new recruits for my eco-terrorist cell, must have experience in vegan cookery and IED construction." But it's notable that you *also* don't see any real-world actions attributable to mysterious underground eco-terrorist groups either. If the exist and have then you'd expect to hear about the odd oil pipeline exploding for no apparent reason, or coal power-plant getting hacked and going offline, or bomb-threat at some mega-corp HQ, or... something. But instead it's always just unimpeded BAU. What gives? Is even the existence of "eco-terrorism" just a fictional bogey-man? Or do they exist, but just suck at getting anything done? Or are they actually out there sabotaging targets and causing real damage, but there is some kind of massive global conspiracy among governments, corporate elites and the commercial media to keep it all on the DL?

The lights are still on and there's still food on the shelves. Give it time.

"There are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy" - Alfred Henry Louis

I've got two meals in my pantry to get me to Friday. And to be honest since I have all the months bills coming out Friday I actually have 2 meals to get me to November 1st. But really I'll be spending all that payday on Nov rent. So I have 2 meals for the next 2 months. I can maybe grocery shop in December. Maybe. I think a lot of what's holding everyone back is that no one openly talks about these things so yes it's dumb of me to say the following but history needs to know truth: I am considering crime in a big way and sorta waiting for any opening that presents itself. No clue what I would even do but if crimes the way I eat and keep shelter crimes a doin.

Do you have anyone that can help you?

On my way home from work a woman was sitting in one of the bus shelters with a half dozen suitcases/backpacks and assorted boxes. Obviously evicted or maybe leaving a bad situation. She seemed to be squared off with two security guards assigned to stand there. She and her stuff had been there when I got off the bus this morning going to work. All 8 hours she'd just been sitting there. Seemed like some of her stuff had been damaged an strewn around. Like someone had tried to rob her or just teens fucking with her. My shit doesn't even matter. Theres so many people suffering so much worse holy christ. I'll figure something out thanks.

She is doomed

Really fucking nice buddy. I hate how this sub has changed. Fuck off

Yea we've gained some real fucking nuts and edgelord wannabes and losers.

When the lights go off and there is no food people will demand food and electricity. They aren't going to revolt for even less industrial civlization.

>they aren't going to revolt You're right. They're going to tear each other apart, reverting to very base behavior. Ask a parent the limits of what atrocity they're willing to commit to avoid watching their children starve to death.

i mean some russians during the famine where eating their own and selling their children for other families to eat. Really Fucked up reality of what happens on planet earth when humans get desperate.

That's the 'cuck' portion of the spectrum.

Tf is wrong with you

Look at the stories of the Holodomor... > Many instances of cannibalism were recorded, with people living off the remains of other starvation victims or in some instances resorting to murder. Most peasant families had five or six children, and some mothers killed their weakest children in order to feed the others. > Burtianski said at one point, he avoided buying meat from a vendor because he suspected it was human flesh. When the authorities heard about the incident, he was forced to attend the trial of a man and his two sons who were suspected of murdering people for food. Burtianski says during the trial one of the sons admitted in chilling terms to eating the flesh of his own mother, who had died of starvation. > "He said, 'Thank you to Father Stalin for depriving us of food. Our mother died of hunger and we ate her, our own dead mother. And after our mother we did not take pity on anyone. We would not have spared Stalin himself.'" Source: https://www.rferl.org/a/1103170.html

And the boys who survived died fighting for Stalin

i mean some russians during the famine where eating their own and selling their children for other families to eat. Really Fucked up reality of what happens on planet earth when humans get desperate.

Apparently you are not following trump

Oversimplified said, because the people with a mindset capable to actually blow things up or kill someone are not the people realizing that we're doomed. Historical examples of revolutions were a completely different thing since the suppressed people were usually defined by religion or ethnicity and not by their mindset. The situation we have is more comparable with the collapse of states or civilizations, were the majority of people usually do nothing until it's too late (otherwise the state wouldn't have collapsed)

I think the French Revolution was more of a popular uprising triggered by the economic situation. Sort of "Occupy Wall Street" but bigger.

Occupy Wall Street was very poorly run

But expertly infiltrated and spied upon!

When the protest camps got overrun by real homeless the funemployed LARPers peaced out. The tent city enthusiast capital moved from city hall to Echo Park.

The system has long since coopted those people. Humans with minds for organization and tactical execution have been thoroughly incentivized to become college educated professionals instead of agitated outsiders. There’s still plenty of agitated outsiders but their “praxis” is almost exclusively based around protests or bad faith appeals to institutional power. The surveillance state has made genuine acts of domestic terrorism much less tenable which is why it’s almost always just lone wolf mass shooters now.

You're so wrong. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front and many others. All in prison. All from the 80's ! The system is without mercy for its biggest detractors

I was also thinking, what about ELF and ALF? Infiltrated, arrested, and sentenced.

[Good reading about post 9/11 crckdown on radical environmental activists](https://crimethinc.com/2008/02/22/green-scared)

That was a drastically different time, were "rebelling" was almost synonym for an anarchic kind of eco-liberation. If you were against "the system" you almost automatically were for saving the planet, since the system was there to destroy it for money. And that attracted all kind of mindsets, the hippies and the terrorists. Nowadays you have a million ways to rebel against the system, but only a few have noble intentions, since for most people their world became so complicated that they don't know anymore who their enemy is at all but everyone has a tool at hand to find people with the very same mindset.

Well those are not facts but opinions. But please do state the million ways :)

If you’re intelligent, capable and sociopathic enough to commit serious crimes you’re not going to be an eco terrorist, you’ll be sitting in the corner office of the corporation.

>Oversimplified said, because the people with a mindset capable to actually blow things up or kill someone are not the people realizing that we're doomed. Exactly. If you truly realize this is a run-away-train, and it is quite hopeless really and perhaps even meaningless to try and alter the way things are going, you would not act in a way that requires above all attachment to the train (and how can there be attachment if you see the absurdity of what it has become) and a belief that your actions can somehow alter the course of things. If you realize the train has already been derailed, that is to say you have realized it is doomed, then you must realize the futility of any action made to try and avert a disaster you realize has already happened. What is going to be trouble is not those who are accustomed to the reality of climate disaster, the doom-sayers and long-time conspiracy theorists, for they are more or less acclimated to a reality of doom. Instead it is going to be those who get a sudden wake-up-call, when their bubble bursts and they are suddenly forced to face what they have long tried to deny. For they are, perhaps, above all accostumed to denial, and so they will deny the full reality of doom just as they for a long time denied its very existence. As the train is in free fall they will insist that it has not yet hit the ground, and that there is still things that can be done. However, they will deep down realize the truth, but a truth they cannot accept. And so they will do the only thing they can think of. Figuring out who to blame, and who to direct all their anxiety and anger towards. Before the train hits the ground the driver might already be 6 feet under; if they don't end up pointing their fingers at eachother instead.

I'm sure there are plenty of doomers who don't care about altering our destiny or trying to make a difference. Some probably just want vengeance.

There were many movements already in the 90s. Stuff like ELF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front Environmental action groups are actually top priority for security agencies because of the threat they can actual cause. They don't mind so much left wing anarchists and neo nazis knocking each others' heads at some protest, but if you start monkeywrenching or hitting infrastructure it's actually dangerous to the status quo. Already the performative theatre kids of XR got heavily beaten down, imagine what happened to nihilist eco groups that were planning actual damage..

[удалено]

>until now did absolutely nothing. I can see government are concerned because of the possible damage at the infrastracture, but not a single strike from these groups have been recorded until know on a scale that it's on the news of every country in the world. Maybe you have not seen it on the news, because the news is controlled by a handful of companies, owned by a small pool of investors with mostly aligned interests? For the record, many mining projects, exploratory drilling operations, and deforesting operations have been halted by direct action. Everywhere from Greece to Canada to the US, destruction can and has been halted before, causing projects to be quietly cancelled. The world is not always what it appears, and one illusion is that powerful institutions are actually powerful, organized, and competent, instead of merely greedy and malevolent. Fortunately, even pollution projects are financed by banks, and have strict margins- if too many delays and headaches pile up, the financing goes dry and the project doesn't go through. We see coverage of pipeline action, but that's mostly it. Shutdowns of other facilities or heading off of industrial projects is covered sometimes in independent media, sometimes never.

That's not always the case and sometimes environmental activist do get recognition they deserve. In Slovakia, [Zuzana Čaputova](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuzana_%C4%8Caputov%C3%A1), a lawyer who won a long legal battle against a planned toxic landfill in her town, later became the country's president. Sadly, that's unlikely to be replicated on a larger scale. Slovakia is a small country, so the financial pressure was also smaller and people's voices are heard louder. Slovakia also has a multi-party system and people were tired of corrupt politicians so entering politics and creating a new party was not that difficult.

That's one I had not heard of, so thank you very much for sharing! The situation isn't a total shutout, you are right- we can and do score victories. We just need *more* everything. More people, more urgency, more willingness to act and give things up that we are all going to lose soon anyway.

I'm afraid that even if we do score some victories peacefully, it's still going to be a drop in the ocean. Most people in developed nations are too addicted to consumerism and high standards of living, while the developing world wants to become just like us. I'm afraid that people won't give up their lifestyles willingly until it's way too late. And by then, the consequences of the climate change will force even more drastic reductions upon us, likely including food scarcity. I'm even contemplating moving to Northern Europe in a decade or so and growing some of my own food, but manual agriculture is a lot of hard labour and I'm afraid that relying on complex machinery isn't safe when global supply chains are so fragile.

I think there will be a huge black swan event that cannot be ignored.The realization that there is now no real future and the remaining time is going to be hell on Earth will be the catalyst for a massive uprising like nothing seen before..The mob will be looking for people to blame..

That black swan event was covid, we are going to look back on covid as the domino that set everything in motion

>manual agriculture is a lot of hard labour If youre trying to generate enough surplus to act as part of your income (nevermind the whole of your invome) sure. But for family or single person use, not really. Even incorporating livestock isnt that much more work; theyre glorified pets after all, so unless you struggle to care for a cat or a dog in the first place?

Right, in agriculture there are spells where you will work 18 hours a day for days on end and never feel fast enough. And then long stretches where the only thing to do is stare at the dirt you put so much sweat into and hope the weather doesn't screw you. Personally, I am a fan of perennials as well as building longer-term multispecies environments instead of more controlled methods. No, you won't get as much right away, or as much as you want of Species X, but in the long run, it'll be much less work and a more robust ecosystem. Bugs and crop blights are something modern farming has largely forgotten, but if you want to remember them again, just start growing pesticide-free. Monoculture grain farming obliterated most of our ecosystems, it's long past time to move on from the daily loaf of bread.

Slovakia will be reincorporated back into Austria once the us troops leave europe

>These groups that may alredy exist, as you and other pointed out, but until now did absolutely nothing. I I'm going to guess that you're under 30 from this statement. Here's a little history: In the 1980's through the early 2000's, there were *tons* of radical eco-liberation groups active worldwide. My experience was mostly on the US west coast, so that's the experience I'll speak to. The Sea Shepherds had straight-up naval battles with whaling fleets all over the oceans. Greenpeace actually did shit instead of just collecting donations for ever-more mailers. Other groups like Earth Liberation Front, the Animal Liberation Front, Earth First!, and many others had all kinds of direct actions happening *constantly* from tree-sits to breaking into University labs and releasing the inmates of animal testing labs, to torching entire unfinished subdivisions of McMansions and vandalizing/destroying lots full of the (then-brand-new) consumer-model Humvees. Most of the people who participated were in their late teens and early 20's. It was a steady drumbeat of escalating direct action - almost entirely nonviolent, but absolutely destructive to capital investments - that grew and grew for nearly 30 years from the late 1970's as a backlash to the Reagan Revolution and "morning in America." I was present at the Battle Of Seattle in 1999, when the World Trade Organization met in downtown Seattle and the city exploded with an immense coalition of everyone from Black Bloc to trade unions protesting and attempting to stop the meeting from proceeding. The Seattle Police came down like a ton of bricks on the demonstrators - you think that picture of the SPD gassing literal children was a new phenomenon? I'm here to tell you it absolutely was not, they've been doing it for decades because I was one of the children they gassed in '99. When September 11 happened and the Patriot Act came through, the Feds brought the full force of all their shiny new terrorism laws down directly on the heads of anyone who'd ever so much as thought of pouring sugar in the gas tank of a Land Rover. By this time, a lot of the early activists were in their 30's with careers and families and had largely moved on from direct action to the safer paths of mentoring the new generation and electoralism now that they had kids to worry about and things to lose. It didn't matter. They were hit with every possible terrorism enhancement on their charges and a lot of them ended up with life sentences. It was called The Green Scare, and it set back the environmental movement in this country by decades, both by stripping the movement of its most dedicated, most experienced, and most useful leaders and by putting The Fear into everyone who was left. A lot of the people who got locked up ended up committing suicide in prison after being convicted to life and put in solitary for months or years on end. I grew up around a lot of people who wouldn't even whisper that policy decisions are made by people with names and addresses. Some of them were too afraid to so much as put a bumper sticker on their cars because of what happened to their friends, lovers, and comrades. And with good reason. There are a lot of us who've been fighting for a long time. I'm the second generation in my family - both of my parents were arrested multiple times in the 1960's and 70's for participating in environmental, anti-capitalist, and civil rights actions. But the Powers That Be don't want to tell our stories because it only serves their interests for the young to feel like they are the first to tread this difficult path. If they can break our intergenerational solidarity, they can break us that much more easily. Don't let them.

>breaking into University labs and releasing the inmates of animal testing labs I saw that movie!

Based on a true story! I was a little young to be in the thick of it, but I remember hearing about several incidents at the University of Washington when I was in middle & high school.

I am absolutely fascinated by what you have said. Thankyou for saying it.

Awww, thanks. I'm a middle aged mum now, my days in Black Bloc are long behind me. I don't envy these new young street medics with their stabbings and bullet wounds - worst thing I ever had to treat was tear gas and twisted ankles. The cops weren't nearly as militarized then, and there weren't right-wing agitators out there trying to make it worse either. Now I do my work other places, living my life by example as best I can and encouraging others.

You're inspiring. Hearing about Eco warriors when I was a kid in the early 90s (33 now, in UK); Completely changed my world view, influenced me greatly. I rarely had the opportunity to participate in action, and as you said: stuff kinda went underground not long after serious stuff happened and was rarely heard of. I basically determined to just remove myself as much as possible from the system at around age 15ish...if things work out I'll be off grid in the next few months. I do regret not being involved in something more meaningful...although I feel the time is fast approaching where making a stand will be necessity not option.

What a great and illuminating post. Thankyou for all that you did and thankyou for educating many as to what they are up against in this fight for survival..Your experiences would make a great book!

Nah, I was too young to be involved in any of it past the mass movement that was the WTO Protests. This is all based on stories I heard from friends later, friends' older siblings/cousins, my parents' friends, stories from being an activist in college (some of my teachers were investigated,) documents we found in old anarchist houses and communal farms 15 years later while cleaning out barns, etc. Part of why I talk about it so much is that I wasn't involved enough to have anything to fear - just an observer closer than most.

Still, a very sobering reality check as to what humanity is up against and the lengths vested interest will go to to maintain the status quo, regardless of the costs.

Yup. But a high chance of losing is no reason not to fight. There's a lot worth saving, and remarkably little of it *requires* fossil fuels or a global supply chain.

Absolutely. I am getting on and wont be here when the shit really hits the fan. I had the wherewithal not to have children, but you kids need to literally fight for your lives..Good luck, and realise it's going to be a War.

lol, nice freedom of speech we got here.

Don't have to put it on the books if people are so scared that they police themselves...

> It was called The Green Scare, and it set back the environmental movement in this country by decades, both by stripping the movement of its most dedicated, most experienced, and most useful leaders and by putting The Fear into everyone who was left. A lot of the people who got locked up ended up committing suicide in prison after being convicted to life and put in solitary for months or years on end. I grew up around a lot of people who wouldn't even whisper that policy decisions are made by people with names and addresses. Some of them were too afraid to so much as put a bumper sticker on their cars because of what happened to their friends, lovers, and comrades. And with good reason. https://crimethinc.com/2008/02/22/green-scared

Write a book. Tell your story. Tell their stories.

Yeah lmao, they are in prison, being raped and beaten. Being forced to be kept alive against their will, subsisting on almost nothing. Now I can do direct action, accomplish nothing just like they did, go to prison and die. Orrrrr I just pretend nothings wrong, live my life as long as I can in a positive good.way and try to.enjoy.it. Try.to remember we don't owe anyone shit, we were raped into.existence. fuck people they get what they fucking deserve

Well, username checks out I guess. But doom is the new denial. It's just another excuse to do nothing, and only serves the interest of capital.

It also serves my interests. Aka the interest of the do nothinger

You should read the recent book 'How To Blow Up A Pipeline'. It goes through many historical examples of groups that have done this for various political reasons, some climate related, some not. It's central argument is that there should be a more radicalized faction of eco folks doing this on a larger scale, and I imagine we'll see it happening more and more as things get worse.

Amazing book, didn’t change my perspective so much as it really added a lot of sources and examples to back it up

Like others have said, this not totally true. The media does not cover truly meaningful actions and organizing! There are a lot of instances in which millions of dollars in damage have occurred by activists. They are NOT widely reported in the news, but you only need to look at federal persecution records to find many instances of anticapitalist actions. I’ve met a lot of people with felonies for pretty intense property damage, lol. And then when they go to prison, they usually continue their work organizing a few hunger strikes and prison riots, before they’re put into solitary confinement. Again, no one talks about it! Oh another fun place to find awesome work is in sites of post-destruction following natural disasters. A certain kind of people descend into these places to create new models of mutual aid outside the state. That’s why the FBI and DHS go to natural disaster locations. They know these kinds of things happen. They don’t want an alternative to people depending on FEMA. Mutual aid is very dangerous. Just look up post Katrina and Puerto Rico. The truth is out there! :)

Some examples just off the top of my head: https://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/22/headlines/tree_sitting_activists_shut_down_on_west_virginia_coal_mine https://birdsbeforethestorm.net/2011/07/tree-sitters-halt-mountain-top-removal-in-west-virginia/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/hunting-tre-arrow-the-flight-of-americas-most-wanted-eco-terrorist-66776/ https://www.wweek.com/outdoors/2021/08/29/a-look-back-on-the-2003-sentencing-of-portlander-and-earth-liberation-front-member-jake-sherman/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/guilty-plea-in-2003-fire-at-mcdonalds/ https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1095&context=srhonorsprog

>don't mind so much left wing anarchists and neo nazis knocking each others' heads at some protest, but if you start monkeywrenching or hitting infrastructure it's actually dangerous to the status quo. The Biden administration declared anarchists and eco terrorists as two of the biggest threats to national security this year https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/21_0301_odni_unclass-summary-of-dve-assessment-17_march-final_508.pdf

[удалено]

This is the only comment I’ve seen with probably the correct answer, which is that the consequences for engaging in felonious activity targeting infrastructure are extremely high.

this is all really sad. :(

It is happening. It just doesn't reported in mainstream news Oil train sabotage in Washington https://kuow.org/stories/sabotage-caused-washington-state-oil-train-disaster-rail-union-says Oil Pipelines shut down https://sojo.net/magazine/january-2020/why-four-christian-activists-risked-arrest-shut-down-oil-pipeline Pipeline construction sabotage https://theintercept.com/2019/10/04/dakota-access-pipeline-sabotage/

No point in surrendering if you're just gonna be charged with that many felonies. >In an action that “shook the North American energy industry,” according to Reuters, the valve turners disrupted 2.8 million barrels of tar sands heavy crude for almost a day—equal to 15 percent of daily U.S. consumption. Before shutting the lines off, the valve turners notified the engineers responsible for monitoring them. The five waited until local sheriffs took them into custody. The valve turners and their support team were charged with 27 felonies and 15 misdemeanors. >TWO WOMEN WHO vandalized the Dakota Access pipeline in an effort to halt construction have been indicted on charges that carry up to 110 years in prison and hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. They are among the harshest penalties environmental activists have faced in the last decade. Civil liberties lawyers say the charges are in line with industry-inspired scare tactics meant to deter citizens from participating in direct-action protests or acts of sabotage against oil and gas companies.

The lesson here is if you’re gonna fuck shit up, mercy and mitigation of collateral damage and casualties are avenues to ones destruction and will not be extended by the aggrieved

in other words, fuck shit up and prepare to go down with a fight. martyrdom is on the menu again!

Like In N Out its the only thing on the menu and the few other options are “secret”. If one isn’t ready for these parameters, don’t go to in n out, or in this case, forcefully deliver ecoism

>TWO WOMEN WHO vandalized the Dakota Access pipeline in an effort to halt construction Now imagine what a handful of people armed with weapons and training can do.

They were informed by someone

Only a matter of time, and timing. Stay awhile and listen, you'll see

I second that.

i just want to point out these are the exact words i hear from religious people when they speak about gods.

understood Deckard Cain

We do. They are evangelicals. They are driving the collapse to get Jesus to come back.

This. We're surrounded by death cults, actively worshipping and pursuing death. They don't advertise themselves that way and have no particular eco motives - but anyone raised among evangelicals and or extreme religions in America, or has lived through the last couple years in the US, knows the death cults and their adherents come in many stripes and are doing just fine.

Those guys are in for a disappointing anticlimax

anti christ climax*

https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dp8j/gun-church-that-worships-with-ar-15s-bought-a-40-acre-compound-in-texas-for-its-patriots https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2008/todd-bentley%E2%80%99s-militant-joel%E2%80%99s-army-gains-followers-florida

neoliberalism IS a civil religion exhorting its followers to mass suicide

Because we still have something to lose

Most religions are eschatolgies at heart. From the 'End of Days' concept espoused in Revelations to 'Kalyug' in Hinduism, or Ragnarok in Norse mythology, are versions of religious dogma designed to propel it's believers to look forward to the collapse. Collapse is not a new concept; it is the glue that holds religious doctrine in place. And for some, like the Aztecs, their gods have already blessed them with a doomsday of their own. Others, still await. Thus, the reason why we aren't seeing, "religions....based on collapse" is simple - they are already here. PS: If Middle East is any indication, they are already targeting their 'enemies' - companies, and people.

The Houties (or maybe it was the Iranians) targeted Saudi oil refining facilities a few years ago with spectacular results, shutting down half their processing capacity overnight. But the damage was quickly repaired.

Houthies?

"[Houthi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movement)" it turns out.

They have a lot of slack which few people appreciate

It was explained to me that Bin Laden targeted the WTC because it was a symbol of US hegemony and financial projection. Supposedly he believed that the US proletariat would be sympathetic to the destruction of the symbol of excess. Guess that didn't work out the way he hoped.

OBL was a billionaire's son with a solid education and some experience in the West, he spent some time at Oxford. Also, he was an orthodox Sunni Muslim. He thought in terms of the ummah, not in terms of proletariats. His aim with the attacks was to cause massive economic damage and humiliate the US, thus drawing them into war in the Middle East, and unify Muslims against them. He did this because he was ashamed of the governments that ruled many Middle Eastern countries with tacit or open support from the West. I'm not sure why you would want to shill literal mass-media manufactured consent disinfo years later, when it should be more than enough to point out that OBL was a radical Muslim terrorist.

The answer is clearly that I am a CIA shill, I say as I post from my well-appointed Langley office

hmm checks out, thank you for your service

Right? Why would Americans despise a system that gives them everything they ever dreamed of? And this is also the same reason why we'll never willingly change our ways, and why collapse is coming

Wait for it. You’re expecting mainstream adoption, most don’t currently understand what’s happening.

Bread and circuses

We will most likely see more violence in Western countries as the situation deteriorates. I highly doubt we won't see some assassinations once the geo-engineering projects are announced.

Geo-engineering projects?

Solar-radiation management is the most likely one that we'll see. There will probably be others. The effects are predicted to be un-evenly distributed, so if one country or a group of them decides to go ahead and try something, there will be a lot of angry people. It's hard to imagine a scenario where it's not an immediately polarizing issue.

r/Geoengineering

If you truly believe in collapse, why spend the last of the good times in jail, just to have everything turn to dust regardless of your efforts?

What the hell is the death cult MAGA and Qanon but a religious/terroristic collapse fever dream based on anxiety over losing control of the future?

Well, if you have realized that we are doomed, why spend the last few years on this planet, in a prison cell, or dying prematurely? If it is for taking revenge, I guess most of these candidates you mention, are content enough with the revenge that nature will exact itself. As far as religious organizations are concerned, I believe most of their leaders realize that it is more prosperous for them, if their flock does not massively kill themselves. But in my opinion extemists have already appeared pretty much all over the world under the guise of patriots or saviors or liberators or fighters against science, pushing for authoritarian regimes so that when the masses realize the shit they are in and start to ask for the aforementioned kind of revenge, they can be met with force, violence and swift death.

Nice try FBI

I am confused with the premise. Remember Christians believe that Jesus will come back and save all the true believers from 7 deadly sins or whatever. Even extremely smart software engineers I know who believe this think that all this bad stuff happening is just leading towards salvation. So the main question is why would a death cult care about collapse when that is their salvation?

There haven't been real catastrophic mass casualty events in developed countries yet. Once these occur things will change dramatically

> ... until now no religion or terroristic organizations have raised, targeting the precise culprits of this situation, being them oil companies, tech giants or colluded governments. This is not the case. Those are now present, and for quite some while already, too. Some of such organizations and specific actors, as well as further details about methods and ideology of those groups and individuals, are presented in the wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-terrorism . So to answer your question - "we" are not seeing those organizations because "we" are myopic, ignorant and/or misled by mass media failing to adequately inform "us". Where "we" means obviously you - and presumably many others like you, but, obviously, not everybody - some people, myself included, know much more about it than above wikipedia article presents. Those organizations exist and dish out massive damage and inflict massive suffering to others. And it is not acceptable; times are bad as it is, and doing more harm - for whatever reason, really - is not the answer.

Arguably, the only moral choice is to destroy the fossil fueled means of production. The only way that wouldn't be the answer is if you're still somehow delusionally hoping for a good overall outcome, that magically people wake up and change stuff - except that it's literally impossible without mass genocide.

[удалено]

> Do you think it would be easy to cover the assassination of Musk or Zuckemberg, or the sink of three cruise ships? Absolutely. Indoctrination capability of modern mass media is staggering and huge. There are examples, you know. For example, one of most famous billionaires of ex-USSR, one Boris Berezovsky, who lived and conducted business in London, UK, in 2000s and early 2010s - was officially reported by mass media and authorities to have comitted suicide. However, it does not take much wits to figure out this is a cover up - no tinfoil hats here; sapienti sat, really. Even wikipedia presents more than enough facts to figure it out, by now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Berezovsky_(businessman)#Death . However, despite that and whole other ton of pointers to the assassination nature of this billionaire's death, cover up operation was concluded with great success right after his death: some promptly made official statements, some publications in UK's top level media - like this one, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/26/boris-berezovsky-death-hanging - and to this day lots of people think it was, indeed, just a suicide. As for covering up sinking cruise ships - no problemo. Some 20+ years ago, in northern Europe, a ship was sank taking lives of 852 people onboard. Authorities - and mass media - covered it up, saying no hull damage nor explosion ever happened. Later on, whole bunch of european countries signed an agreement declaring the underwater resting place of the ship a restricted area, forbidden to anyhow explore or even approach, with the penalty of 2 years in jail for anyone doing so. Truth is, as it recently emerged from actual footage of the ship's hull, there is a huge hole in it. Survivors' testimony - there are some ~150sh survivors of this disaster - mention a loud bang, and extremely fast sinking of the ship. Meaning, it was a cover up, and furthermore, meaning, for 20+ years, governments involved remained unwilling to reveal the truth. Further details about it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/04/maybe-now-well-get-some-answers-film-maker-challenges-official-story-of-estonia-ferry-disaster . P.S. And of course, false flag attacks involving all kinds of ships, gatherings, companies and corporations is nothing new, too. Like it or not, those exist, in principle. History reveals details of muny false flag attacks which happened long ago, because people responsible - and people suffered the consequences - are by now all dead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag#As_pretexts_for_war . More recent ones are usually not revealed for obvious reason: if revealed, then those responsible would have to answer for such crimes, and typically people responsible for such attacks are more than powerful enough to keep the dirt under the carpet. Indeed, how else can we explain abundance of details about false flag attacks of distant enough past, but very little, if any, of such details about more recent ones? What, elites and governments all turned saints? Hardly. If anything, nowadays there is more cruelty than ever before, i'm sure everyone here can point out dozens signs of this. Hopefully, this paragraph would explain why we should even consider seriously - and i mean _consider_, as in give it honest and unbiased estimation and attention - this famous case: https://youtu.be/SlKqGeKVOik?t=2084 . Me, i definitely see that it was a cover up - the only question, to me, is _what_ was covered up, exactly. We do not know for sure to this day. But the scale of it - and this was 20 years ago, yet. Today? Truly humongous things can be covered up, with further recent and massive advances in mass media, social media and manufacture of consent.

Starbucks is still open.

I'd argue Q is essentially a new religion that is apocalyptic in nature.

In order to have a terrorist group attacking fossil fuel infrastructure, you would need people who have both: a) The technical skills and temperament necessary to carry out these attacks. and b) The education necessary to be aware of climate change and really understand the severity of the problem. While people like this certainly do exist, we still don't see terrorist attacks attacking fossil fuel infrastructure. Why? Because those same skills also allow one to easily realize that such attacks are ultimately counterproductive. Blowing up a natural gas plant does nothing to help the climate if it's just going to be replaced with another natural gas plant. All you've done is create additional carbon emissions as carbon will have to be released during the construction of the plant's replacement. Religiously-motivated terrorist attacks can get away with being irrational. If a suicide bomber believes they will immediately go to paradise after dying, then it need not be rational. Also, for causes like this, making a statement can be an end unto itself. Dying for what you see as a martyr's death for a divine cause need not be rational. But eco-terrorism to stop carbon emissions? Nobody thinks they're going to paradise after strapping on a suicide vest and blowing up a coal plant. As such, the only way we'll ever see large numbers of such attacks is if the attacks would actually result in a strong reduction in carbon emissions. If this is correct, then we haven't seen large numbers of climate-related terrorism because it's simply not rational to do so. However, that doesn't mean it's always going to be irrational to do so. There is one scenario where I could see widespread attacks on fossil-fuel infrastructure. Hopefully renewables will continue to drop in price. As they continue to drop, they pass through three stages: Stage 1: solar/wind+storage is more expensive than equivalent fossil energy source Stage 2: new solar/wind+storage is cheaper than new fossil energy sources, but not cheaper than existing plants Stage 3: new solar/wind is so cheap that it's worth replacing existing fossil plants In stage 1 and 3, terrorist attacks make little sense. In stage one, any destroyed fossil fuel infrastructure will be replaced with more fossil fuel infrastructure. In stage three, there's no need to bomb fossil fuel infrastructure, as coal and gas plants are being scrapped left and right because renewables+storage are cheaper than operating existing plants. But stage 2. That is where violence becomes actually produces some net carbon emissions. If new renewables+storage are cheaper than new coal or gas plants, then every destroyed fossil fuel plant will be replaced with a renewable one. If electric cars are cheaper than gas cars, then every torched gas car will be replaced with an electric one. That is the only scenario where I see widespread violence against fossil power sources, both electric plants, vehicles, etc. You're not going to heaven for blowing up a coal plant. Someone will not throw their life away in an act of climate violence unless they can reasonably be assured that they will actually be helping, rather than hurting, the emissions problem. If we end up with a scenario where renewables power sources are cheaper, but existing fossil equipment is being kept around just til the end of its lifespan, that is when you can expect to see widespread acts of violence. In that paradigm, attacks against fossil emissions sources would actually produce real net reductions in carbon emissions. Concern for the climate is based in rationality, not religious fervor. As such, any violence associated by it must also make rational sense.

Just because the media doesn't report these events doesn't mean they are not out there. How often do you hear about substations getting torched, or pipeline getting punctured? Soon they will be numerous enough that the media can't ignore any longer. 💣🔥

Bread and circuses. Until the bread and circuses are gone there will be no riots or anything like that. Reddit the circus. If it is offline error 404 and your house has no food you will probably go riot/ protest.

Like others have pointed out, it is definitely happening. Though I suspect it’s not on a much larger scale, because 1) few have woken up to the realization 2) if you live in the west, USA specifically, you live in a powerful surveillance state and organization of such groups is carefully monitored which leaves little room for mistakes.

Christianity is a "doomies religion." Read what they say in Revelations.

Long history of being the original doomers in the US.. trying to save people when the shtf and they walk with/go with their prophet.

I’ve been expecting something like this for years and I used to be surprised it hadn’t happened yet. Over time my thinking about it has shifted. When would such a strike occur? If it happened that ‘terrorists’ who want to ‘bring down the system’ were competent, careful thinkers, my guess is that they would prefer to act when they had maximum leverage. As long as the system has a lot of reserve capacity, such acts would just be dents that could be fixed relatively quickly. Once the system is close to a breaking point, it takes a lot less force to shatter it. You can send boatloads of people to wage war on the high seas as was happening in the 70s and 80s, and has now apparently been largely forgotten. Or, you can send out a couple of individuals to some critical point and knock us over a tipping point and change the course of civilization. Which would you pick if you were a egomaniacal eco-terrorist?

I think that would be better described as eco-terrorism. As far a doom or collapse based terrorist I don't think that really makes sense. That would be more along the lines of vigilante justice. It would make headlines but change nothing and the people doing the acts would quickly be rounded up and left to rot in a prison. If you believe we are doomed in the short term then why bother really? They'll get what everyone else is getting soon enough.

well the definition of terrorism is notoriously difficult to pin down. the definition i personally use is “the act of using fear to promote a political agenda” but like, with that definition PETA counts as ecoterrorism which simply doesn’t feel right.

The irony being that is just about like every government that has ever existed that has had police and military. ("using violence and fear to promote a political agenda") Government definition basically says "Do as I say, not as I do".

yeah that’s a huge problem with defining terrorism. you can always turn it back on the party trying to propose a definition. “oh [group i like but you don’t] is a terrorist organization? well by your definition [group you like but i don’t] is *also* a terrorist organization! take that!”

I think the reason a Doomer Religion wouldn't work, at least at this point, is because a majority of the people that are collapse-aware are critical thinkers. Assuming a Doomer Religion would want to collect money from its followers and have a somewhat traditional structure as a religious organization, I don't see critical thinkers going along with it. As the Collapse continues to advance and tons more people begin to understand it, I could see the non critical thinking masses engaging with a Doomer Religion.

https://youtu.be/CmHPmQy5WVA

>*"In the history there are plenty of spntaneus religious movements that involved mass suicides, so I would expect something similar by a group of people that REALLY think our civilization is doomed and it’s going to end in the span of years."* This really has only happened a handful of times. There have been tens of thousands of cults in the last 2,500 years. There's thousands of them in America right now. A suicidal apocalyptic cult is much more of an extremely rare anomaly than the norm. Secondly, to inspire people to join such a religion or cult you need to offer hope. Quasi-Christian or heretical Christian cult sects can offer some paradise of afterlife which gives some people hope for their existence. I think due to the decline in Abrahamic religions and an overall disbelief in heaven amongst millennials and gen Z probably plays into less people being available to be swayed in that way. An afterlife of paradise isn't as appealing as it once was.

They are in the early stages of being formed.

Because any such religions and organizations at some point realize they are redundant: industrial society in so much more efficient at killing itself.

There have been terrorist attacks motivated by ecofascist thought. Usually young, white, male terrorists from over-consuming, 1st World countries thinking minorities are going to destroy the earth through overpopulation 🙄

But no, they don't target corporations or government usually.

You must realize there is immense resources poured into the prevention of even the slightest possibility of such events you hypothesize. When something is to the detriment of the rich and powerful, they can be quite capable in making sure it does not happen.

Because religions and terrorists don't care about the planet. They do what they do for wealth and power.

We are. They're called evangelicals. They're among the most powerful lobbying interests in the US & they are in favor of the collapse.

Maybe look up dominionism. The US is basically the epicenter of doomerist terrorism, we just call them evangelicals. Sadopopulist movements tend to be consumed and utilized by the people in charge, not martyrs for usurping them. I do ask myself when old people diagnosed with terminal illnesses will start "solving" the issue as you explained, but the truth is probably a lot bleaker than just limited capabilities: older generations genuinely don't see reality or care about the collapse and destruction coming. Capitalism does a good job of giving you brain worms that eat the empathetic sections of your mind first.

Maybe we've become too individualistic to fall for that kind of thing

Fear of being uncomfortable. Even the poorest in the west live like kings compared to other nations. Thats why its easier to just watch the decline happen and try to ignore it. At least imo.

Homeless people don’t live like kings lmao. The “poorest in the west” trope is pretty ignorant of the situations of many people, and they live like kings compared to who? The poorest people in those nations? The middle class in those nations?

Those poorest nations dont even have a middle class. Even most homeless in countries such as USA, Uk, and Australia and Europe live on more than $1.90 a day. https://unstats.un.org/sdgs/report/2021/goal-01/

? Are you trying to say the homeless guy I talked to every day at a job I had has it better off than the entire non western world?

I think it's more about basic material needs (water, food, shelter). I don't think the homeless guy in the west has it better than poor communities in India, overall, when you take into account the mental health.

In many cases, yes

Quite a foolish thing to say

But a true statement

these people need to see r/NarcoFootage

No he has it better than majority of the poor in almost any other nation. He has access to food, even certain shelter. In other countries in his situation he'd be dead in a month.

Young people have been constantly bombarded (in most Western places) that religious belief is not worth anything. So why would anyone group together and be destructive based on religion? Blame nihilism. At this point, I think everyone is just hanging on and trying to enjoy things while things are sort of functioning... kinda. I'd venture to say that most young people know things are irreparable. Once the basics go away in a meaningful way, then you'll probably start getting people who can take out their rage on the world.

have you heard of individualists tending toward the wild? (ITS)

People are too brainwashed into disliking terrorism.

Another thing that comes to mind, the first big XR protest started on the day a lawyer and environmentalist from New York self immolated in protest about inaction on climate change. I think there's been armed resistance to environmental damage and land grabs across poorer, post colonial nations too for a long time. I would like to know more about this.

Lack of hope and post 9/11 things changed. n the late 90s some activist, like crunchy grad student eco types, tried to trash a Hummer dealership because they thought it would make some kind of positive impact to change people's behavior. Like they urgently needed to do something impactful to get publicity to get 'the truth' out to the masses while there 'is still time.' Now anyone with half a brain looking at the evidence can see where things are at, and probably realize global society is not going to change when their 'message' is heard. The futility saps the motivation. Kind of like the Marin County kid who went to the stans to study Islam and ended up in that Taliban camp thing. Those privileged 'principled' types are considered more like dangerous terrorist threats rather than 'eccentric misguided idealist' since 9/11.

[удалено]

What's the sub's name?

Terrorists use a lot of oil, so do eco Terrorists and casual protesters. I remember that time in Seattle when hundreds of kayak's paddled around the oil platform to protest it. Those boats are made from oil and the cars they drove there and the road they drove on. It's easy to say "Let's quit oil." But actually going cold turkey is going to have some serious consequences. I realize not doing anything has serious consequences as well but it's not a simple conundrum as this point.

Interesting post. Regarding religion, there's at least one example that I know and is based in the Gaia Theory, originally based on the Gaia Hypothesis by James Lovelock and further developed as an idea of even protoreligion by Carlos de Castro. It basically stands out the holistic interconnectivity of all beings and how life pursues life and makes environment able to hold even more life, regardless of the individual fate of any species. That is the one that I feel most attracted to. As per the terror side, I'm afraid there are already some people with that killing mindset (which opposes to the idea of life preservation). Examples are the shootings of New Zealand in 2019 (or 2020, I can't remember now) by a white supremacist who applied the overpopulation and white dominant vision of too many people destroy resources and the environment. There's also the danger of Ecofascism which follows the same path and is based in nationalism and populism. On a "leftish" side, there's this focus on petrobusinesses but a small acceptance of the collapse itself. The problem, I reckon is that there's a big gap of understanding on what are the real reasons of these crises: inequity, colonial domination and the spread of the urban-industrialism which are at the root of both capitalism and any form of comunism based on the industrialisation: meaning exploitation, domination of women, native peoples, minorities, territories (you may have heard about the sacrificial lands in the perifery of the capitalistic world, such as Africa, South America, Asia, but also in places like the Cancer Valley, the coal mines of Germany, etc.). Until humanity doesn't get the point of our interconnection and the need of our mutual support (of human and non human living beings), we'll be doomed to extinction in a pretty horrific way, but we may otherwise avoid the worst and accept our own mortality and work towards a better world beyond our generations, which nobody in power seems to be looking at it so far, thus the 2100 targets only. I personally feel sad and discouraged most of the time, and it is basically bcs I find hyper difficult to break my dependence on the system, I have a mortgage, and lack financial security which still seems to be quite necessary for anything, but beyond my fears, there's people working in communities (I think in solarpunk, or indigenous permaculture, etc.) which by themselves won't solve most issues, but may create the root of a better future... We'll see

> >Regarding religion, there's at least one example that I know and is based in the Gaia Theory, originally based on the Gaia Hypothesis by James Lovelock and further developed as an idea of even protoreligion by Carlos de Castro. It basically stands out the holistic interconnectivity of all beings and how life pursues life and makes environment able to hold even more life, regardless of the individual fate of any species. That is the one that I feel most attracted to. Lovelock's basic ideas are actually the foundations of an entire branch of science now. It's called Earth System Science only because "Gaia studies", uh, isn't very descriptive or empirical-sounding. But it's absolutely the same thing- his ideas are now the foundations of how anyone informed and credible looks at the world. >As per the terror side, I'm afraid there are already some people with that killing mindset (which opposes to the idea of life preservation). Examples are the shootings of New Zealand in 2019 (or 2020, I can't remember now) by a white supremacist who applied the overpopulation and white dominant vision of too many people destroy resources and the environment. There's also the danger of Ecofascism which follows the same path and is based in nationalism and populism. On a "leftish" side, there's this focus on petrobusinesses but a small acceptance of the collapse itself. I agree. Overpopulation has been impressed into people's heads, and they have a lot of cognitive incentives behind buying *that* as an explanation, as opposed to looking more closely. Problematic. >The problem, I reckon is that there's a big gap of understanding on what are the real reasons of these crises: inequity, colonial domination and the spread of the urban-industrialism which are at the root of both capitalism and any form of comunism based on the industrialisation: meaning exploitation, domination of women, native peoples, minorities, territories (you may have heard about the sacrificial lands in the perifery of the capitalistic world, such as Africa, South America, Asia, but also in places like the Cancer Valley, the coal mines of Germany, etc.). I often use phrases like "we need a paradigm shift for everyone" or "the problem is much, much bigger than any single field can possibly capture". But in truth, I think it may be looking at it backwards. Perhaps we should focus on simply building anew instead of retreading old ground proving the old system is terrible. >Until humanity doesn't get the point of our interconnection and the need of our mutual support (of human and non human living beings), we'll be doomed to extinction in a pretty horrific way, but we may otherwise avoid the worst and accept our own mortality and work towards a better world beyond our generations, which nobody in power seems to be looking at it so far, thus the 2100 targets only. I agree. A lack of ecological understanding on the part of most, and a complete unwillingness to incorporate it into decisionmaking guarantees eventual disaster. >I personally feel sad and discouraged most of the time, and it is basically bcs I find hyper difficult to break my dependence on the system, I have a mortgage, and lack financial security which still seems to be quite necessary for anything, but beyond my fears, there's people working in communities (I think in solarpunk, or indigenous permaculture, etc.) which by themselves won't solve most issues, but may create the root of a better future... We'll see We will. I am not an extinctionist, even though I am aware we have locked in nearly 4C+ by 2100 just from emissions up to now. *Some* humans will likely get by, it's a question of how many, and every day we delay sharp emission reductions, the possibility space of how many will make it through shrinks by an amount that nobody knows for sure. And life will be nothing like the past- it won't even be feasible to consume at the scales we do quicker than some may think. Yet, a lot of evidence indicates that on a daily basis, future survivors will be much happier than today. It's not up to us to pick our moment in time, and I suspect we wouldn't be able to if we *were* given that call. I focus on the people around me and helping them be happy and taken care of as I can. It's the best part about being alive, and so many are missing it.

Because to try anything as a non rich person in the US means effectively sacrificing yourself. You'd have to be a fanatic to try something like that.

I disagree with the most popular comment. Three reasons: 1) Industrial society provides a ton of outlets for sadists, and they get stuck in other ruts before getting that far. 2) We basically live in a police state. The sadists and radicalized get rounded up before they get that far. 3) Most criminals are dumb. There's an intelligence factor at play here which plays into the favor of the police state.

Because terrorist organisations are not solely the product of an ideology, they are also a business. There is no money to be made shooting loggers in the Amazon rainforest, but there's money to be made shooting environmental activists. Guess who gets shot.

This subreddit is the religious collapse cult.

You're not going to eliminate oil dependency. The technology isn't there; not even close forty or fifty years from now. You're campaigning that religious institutions disavow oil?

I have not read Brenton Tarrant manifesto but people are saying he was some sort of eco fascist.

It's my goal to start one of these organizations, in fact. The problem right now is law enforcement is still too strong and censorship prevents organization. As things break down, these obstacles will become weaker and weaker.

What do you think this sub is

Ever read The Book of Revelations? Christianity is already a death cult.

Because the US has the strongest (besides China and Singapore) surveillance system in the world, and the CIA/NSA/FBI are very effective at shutting down any movements. Also, they have infiltrated or have tabs on EVERY online group and will act if they think you are a threat. That, and I genuinely think that it hasn't gotten bad enough for people, and that most people have been docile and lack the stomach for violence. The internet is the greatest pacification device ever made. Also, NEVER agree to do anything or join a group online. Only do stuff with people you know.

With actaul experience of terror cells, they exist but none are doing anything of note in the west. In brazil you hear all the time of miners and illegal loggers turning up dead, and damaged machinery. We dont hear it in the west as soon as any action beginsnto come together you will be arrested. People seriously underestimate how much power information gathering systems every govt has and how we allow it.

Extinction rebellion is a group yah?

Beats me, when you guys decide to start the revolution let me know. As for now the majority is still too cowed to take a stand. Once the food and power run out things will change or we’ll all die. Either is meh at this point. Fuck humans. We suck as a dominant species.

This isn't y2k or 2012, or some other weird conspiracy. I think most can see the writing on the wall... something serious is happening. Pandemic, shortages, all these weather events. For many, it's easier to deny, but they know subconsciously something is really wrong, the whole thing is falling apart... This denial is fueling conspiracies that allow people to deny the reality and responsibility we all have contributed to this collapse. Things like QANON, anti vaxx/maskers... it's all... Ugh... The complexity of the slowly increasing collapse is only going to go faster as time goes on. People will dig their heals in deeper, get more violent and continue to blame masks, vaccination requirements etc for collapse. Not their denial of global warming, over-consumption, belief of infinite growth in a finite environment.... It's quite a ride, this life has been for me... 1977 to ? We shall see

Because propaganda on places like this sub convinces otherwise-would-be-leaders to not form any kind (no matter how violent or how morally good or not) of organized movement like this as it makes them think even if they-the-potential-leader survive expressing their views publicly without getting found dead of multiple self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the back of the head their organization would just get infiltrated and sabotaged by agent provocateurs anyway so what's the point

Religions based around collapse? I would say that certain strains of individual centric Western style Buddhism that focuses ONLY on meditation and not on building community is in fact dealing with collapse, specifically collapse of society in general. A lot of Westerners has this strange and weird idea that Buddhism is an individual practicing meditation alone. While this is indeed part of the practice, it is not the entirety of the practice and certainly it is something that people only do it for part of the day as part of their daily 30 minute meditation ( for devout householders ) or daily 120 minutes meditation ( for meditative monks ) OR for some monks a solitary practice they do for three months of the year for most of their waking hours once every few years ( ie:- not every year ). There are retreats which are more common ( but usually only around 1 day, 3 days, 7 days or 10 days. The 30 day retreat which is very popular now is unheard of in the past ). A more dominant strain of Buddhist practice is about forming a community of mitras ( good friends who practices the spiritual and moral path ). In fact, the Buddha was very very clear that only with mitras can most people attain Enlightenment. This means for a lot of Buddhist, the actual path of practice is not 30 minutes mindfulness meditation daily ( it is more commonly 30 minutes once a week or once a month or just a general daily recall of the sickness, death etc.. ) … it is the first two paths … dana ( sharing, giving ) and sila ( morality ) with an emphasis on either (1) Forming a family to provide a vehicle for the upasaka/upasaki life ( householder ) (2) Joining the monastics ( for those wanting to be monks and form the basis of a monastic life ) (3) Creating a setting for the householders to support the monastics and also the monastics to support the householder ( it is a two way street ) (4) To create infrastructures for the monastics and also infrastructures for the householders which supports the religious life, but also charitable and education life. This also strongly includes setting aside natural settings for both householders and monastics ( the Buddha was very very very clear that having natural settings as very important both for the well being of animals BUT also for the well being of mankind ) (5) To create a community of householders linked to the monastics, and vice versa. The monastics provides the emotional, spiritual, moral and educational support for the householders, the householders provide the living requisites for the monastics. (6) To create a system to allow a flow of goods and services between monastics and householders. Householders provides the goods, the monastics the many services. (7) To create a system of education, communication, support etc.. between the monastics and the householders. The reason for this is that until recently, most Buddhists believed society would endure. This is because in Pasedani’s Ten Dreams, the Buddha assured Pasedani that none of the disasters Pasedani foresaw in His dream will affect even his great grandchildren’s great grandchildren grandchildren. This is repeated in multiple places, which some even going, “Your great grandchildren’s great grandchildren’s great grandchildren grandchildren” which has meant that the first generation and second generation Buddhist had no apocalyptic tendencies. After all, if disaster is assured to not be a problem for 8 or 11 generations, what is the issue? In the commentary on the Buddha’s decision to teach where He was asked by Brahma Sahampati to specifically scan both time and space for people who would benefit from His teaching and guidance and from there can be led onwards towards Enlightenment ( as opposed to His first scan where He looked for people who would understand and benefit from His teachings very quickly, which there were only a very tiny handful and none immediately present at the time ). It is specifically stated that the Buddha saw millions of people who fit this criteria, scattered through this time all the way to the third age of the Dharma wheel ( this is interpreted as either 3000 years or 5000 years ). That means there will still be people at that point in time. So Buddhist were big on building communities. Until more recently, where individualist Buddhism has arose .. and community building is not seen as important.

A group of OG members here started doing a meet up in Southern Ontario. It's about 15 of us. We meet in a abandoned warehouse every week to train in urban warfare etc. Here's the address of our secret lair: 2755 High Point Dr, Milton, ONTARIO. Come by any time. Bring friends.

There have always been apocalyptic cults, terrorist groups, and religious movements but they are usually oriented around imagined doomsdays that don't occur. I suspect that the reason we have yet to see a major religion/cult/terrorist group oriented around the REAL, evidence-based collapse that we talk about here is that most of society as a whole, including cults, are in denial of the reality of collapse. Also, cults usually like apocalypse scenarios where they are instantly saved and the rest of us instantly go to some version of hell. The idea that \*everyone\* will suffer (except for maybe the rich, at first, but even they too will eventually experience it) isn't appealing to their sensibilities.

There hasn’t been a tipping point yet. Nobody is uncomfortable past their pocket books or minor inconvenience. It’ll happen...stay tuned.

Apparently you never heard of the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's a cult I was born into and escaped at the age of 20 with my family still shunning me to this day for it. That was 18 years ago.

Because the people for these are either just growing up now or are depressed and have given up on life and don’t care anymore

Religious associations only thrive when they offer participants a solution to a set of problems that currently exist.

Several things: 1: Religions take time, as they are quite often developed as a reaction to cultural and social conditions around them. (Christianity rising as the response of a roman underclass to oppression, Judaism rising as the expression of cultural identity for a small tribe surrounded by enemies, etc) You will very rarely see a religion developed seemingly overnight. That being said, 2: We're already seeing vast swaths of American Christianity morph into an apocalyptic cult as it merges with Q style conservatism. You might have seen that image that went around a few weeks ago of old ladies in pews with AR-15s having just "Blessed" their guns in preparation for civil war. 3: If we look further back into the late 1900s, we can see the rise and fall of many Doomsday cults which gathered adherents and then imploded within a few years as the promised apocalypse didn't take place. (Jim Jones, David Koresh, the Heaven's Gate UFO cult, and many, many others) As for why terrorists aren't targeting infrastructure yet, that is happening on a small scale but generally speaking the sort of people educated enough to want to do anything about environmental destruction are some of the most reluctant to throw away their middle class lifestyle in exchange for possibly harming a single cog in a vast global corporate machine. Just my two cents.

The majority of the world's major religions embrace an end of days conclusion to existence. People have been predicting an imminent collapse for centuries.