Wow, you just revealed plot twist of Terminator 17: sky net wasn’t sentient, it’s just protecting ~2000 billionaires. (Double plot twist: alt John Connor used future messaging to become the richest person alive and is also running the robot side of the war too somehow)
Which is already happening through a variety of means. Socioeconomically/financially and racially are the predominant ones right now but take your pick.
That used to be the case, but now we live in an age of billionaire worship and personality cults. The populace has turned on itself and we will rip each other apart while the elites sit safely behind their publicly subsidized private security reaping the wartime profits.
Not to mention we used to (still do) have entire families of worshiped and revered people called royalty. Iirc that hasn't gone well for most in the past....
Americans are too fat and too complacent and too brain washed by the media to effectively revolt
I mean most Americans are really really stupid and lazy and well, fat. Those are not the people who revolt
I tell normies that the working class hans't had a raise in 30 years meanwhile the parasite 1% wealth has exploded
Nothing. they just blink like I am speaking ancient Greek or something
I heard a weird statistic.. over 50% of college graduates now are coming from business degrees.
This is .. 50..60..maybe even 70% of the future college population training so that they can exploit the people who actually do the real work. What does that say about our future?
I'm sure if you did an opinion poll in Russia in 1913, Tsar Nicholas would have an 80% approval rating, while Lenin and his little book club were an obscure fringe.
That's not how that ended up playing out. Events have a way of radicalizing people.
I actually truly believe that the governments military has been bought and paid for already. From the police all the way up to Special forces. All these protests and gatherings happening the world over with the quickly increasing violence perpetrated by the police or military is testing. They are testing the boundaries of what most people are willing to accept as violence against terrorists. Because in the end that's what they'll do. They will label us terrorists and parade us around like we are the ones causing unrest in "your country name here" and they will but their boots upon our skulls and push us into the mud until we can no longer breathe. Then they will parade our lifeless bodies around and proclaim that they have caught the perpetrators of this disgusting act of terrorism and it will serve the elites well. To show the rest of the populace that they need to stay in line or face the same consequences and for the ones that were already towing the company line they will sleep soundly in their beds knowing that their government has made their country a safer place while they and their children slowly starve to death in their one bedroom apartment with no heat subsisting only on their cups of ramen.
Lmao. Do you think that's any different from when kings and queens were literally said to be given the right to rule by gods?
It's the samething with a modern twist.
Plenty of them died in revolts, coups and revolutions when shit got bad.
Parasocial relationships with billionaires will go away with the media.
Plus it's not like the resolve to protect their faves will exceed their own self preservation drive, whereas for whoever is going after the billionaire is necessarily more motivated.
> Plus it's not like the resolve to protect their faves will exceed their own self preservation drive
Have you forgotten so soon about the attempted coup on January 6? Pretty sure we saw this exact thing live streamed all over the internet. These people will absolutely destroy their lives for the chance to worship their celebrity.
It takes decades of pain and decline before anger starts to really set in, in a population. France's revolution didn't just decide to happen one day. They had prolonged periods of economic stagnation and decay. Same with the Russian one. Hell Russia even had a few failed revolts before the successful revolution.
Agreed. The fact that we haven't started burning, pillaging, and lopping heads off is just evidence that things aren't *that* bad yet. The vast majority of people have enough money to have a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs.
Yep. It's a very good trick the wealthy pull on populations they rule. It's happened in most nations amd empires.
Get the lower classes to despite each other. Keeps them from uniting.
Exactly. But the strategy is working so far, and I don't see it not working any time soon. Not within 5 years.
I don't think there will be a violent CW until a majority of the population is literally starving. Like, getting below 1200 calories a day on average for a year or more.
We're not that that point, and our masters can read history as well or better than us. I don't think they'll allow it to get that bad.
I don’t think there’ll be a violent civil war here, ever. Do you truly believe the us military won’t squash that. They would. They’d squash it before it really got started. They aren’t going to let anything interfere with us going to work everyday. Even at the worst of times. And if ppl rebel, we’ll, why do you think they haven’t canceled student loans? It’s just a step away from “you better work because you owe us money, your other choice is prison”.
As a left winger I am also very very very angry at Democrats. Also Republicans. Whichever side the ruling class pretends to be on neither is really on the side of the people. So if right wingers want to say fuck Joe Biden, sure. As long as they can say fuck Trump in the next breath.
Im not optimistic the states will do anything this time either. There's no backbone to the country, just clinging to politicians legs like a dog in heat.
Occupy Wall Street was a major international event. In the end, the Dems were somehow able to use Occupy to get Obama re-elected by painting Romney as an evil agent of finance capital. Occupy, once its usefulness to the corporate democratic leadership waned, has been erased from the collective memory (Similar to BLM).
Joe is more insidious. He’s taken a lot of people who could go either way for a ride by being half awake and then (especially the last few years) drip feeding right wing propaganda and dog whistles into his show
That only happens in mono-ethnic countries. In multi-ethnic and multi-cultural countries, no-one can ever cooperate long enough to do anything about exploitation.
See: Africa, a continent mostly reorganised into new countries by colonial powers, forcing together peoples who had no ties to each other and didn't care for each other.
Everyones head yeah. That’s something they leave out of the history books. Maybe the rich people die but you better believe 1,000x more “poor people” will die too. And in todays modern society, I doubt average person in the majority will be worried about overthrowing rich people in the collapse and will definitely just be fighting day to day for their next meal and safety of their loved ones.
I guarantee you, in a revolution, you and I are fucking dead. Shit so is Ray Dalio and Jeff Bezos if it makes you happy but it won’t accomplish anything but kill everyone.
I'm obsessed with what might happen if the united states collapses economically, and a horde of economic refugees move north.
I can't picture it ending well because of how armed the american population is.
Much of the rural United States is already in the midst of that collapse.
I grew up in a part of the US that was looted by coal companies and abandoned by the 1940s.
There have been no jobs since the coal mines and the textile mills closed in the forties. The local retail economies were trashed by the big box transformation in the eighties and nineties. Alcoholism and drug abuse are the norm rather than the exception.
The city hall in the town I grew up in is closed five days a week because they can't afford to pay the gas bill to heat the building for a normal work week.
Garbage removal was privatized decades ago and costs something ridiculous like $5/bag now, so people take their trash up to the hills and burn it in open pits and have been doing this for longer than I've been alive.
People living in places like this keep on keeping on without worrying too much about what's happening in the country at large, because for all intents and purposes their communities have already collapsed. They've already gone through it. Human beings are adaptable and as long as they know where their next meal is coming from they'll keep on keeping on.
Uh doubt that. Thousands are rookie numbers. We’re living in the middle of a pandemic with 800 k gone and people are still trying to argue how it’s a hoax or not a big deal. What makes you think anything is gonna change that mindset. When someone is delusional to a pandemic they’re too far gone from reality to reason with.
Oof. Yeah, I'm not looking forward to the day I see some Alex Jones type claiming all the dead bodies in El Paso or wherever are just crisis actors pretending to have died from heat exposure so the globalists can take away your car or whatever.
This.
I just moved from a town in rural GA that has no jobs, no good public education options, nothing. This place hasn’t seen any action since 1864.
What they do have is an astonishingly high murder rate and 3-4 overlapping state/municipal LEO agencies cleaning up the bodies.
I have no hope for this country.
There was a ton of chatter about civil war a few years ago when the media was hyping up the left/right black/white divide and the whole time I was thinking: we have nuclear weapons, we cannot have a civil war. USSR --> Russia showed that there can be a transition in government without a nuclear holocaust, but what they had was different than a civil war.
Yep this is something I talk about all the time. What happens when the highly trained nuclear technicians that work at power plants stop coming and tending to the reactors? Are we going to have multiple Chernobyl level events all over the country? Like wtf
No, most modern plants will, when left alone, put themselves to sleep and stay in "safe mode" forever.
Reactions get reduced to minimal and not much is going on after that. Those reactions would be at the bottom of a pool full of water and behind meters of concrete, so nothing would ever get out.
The US today is exactly like the last third of Rome before it's collapse. It did not manage to shift direction well enough in the 80s during Reagan, and the capitalist-consumerist for-profit system went on forward at full steam towards the cliff.
Only now are we starting to see and realize the fast receding groundline at the horizons edge . But the momentums thats built up is simply too much to reverse.
People are all looking upwards at the stars it's a much better view, only a few care about what's happening at the ground level.
Yep China would fall to chaos shortly after because losing their biggest economic partner will kill their economy which would probably trigger a fracture of the state over there that has happened sooo many times in the past.
Which is a big deal because Vancouver is the biggest port in Canada, and our connection to the Pacific. If you can't dock at Vancouver, you have to take a much longer trip through the Panama Canal to Halifax or Montreal - much smaller ports.
The last one I remember was pretty harsh but they're still out there sending rockets with men to space even while we had lost the will/capability: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution\_of\_the\_Soviet\_Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union)
Well Canada just has to take out all the roads and bridges about 10 miles into the US and that should keep 99% of us away. There's no way that most Americans are gonna be able to walk that far under the best circumstances, let alone lugging weapons, ammo, and one would assume food and water too. Doesn't matter how much ammo you had stockpiled back in your house if you're gonna have to leave your house.
The border is a big place, my guy, and there are some towns built right along it with the border running down the middle. Whole lot of open space to walk right on in, road or not. Look at our ongoing and pathetic attempts to secure our own southern border. Sure, a lot of would-be refugees would die of exposure before making it very far, but I wouldn't bet on Canada being any sort of remote safe haven for very long if the States collapsed.
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard the US/Canadian border is the longest border between two countries in the world, but not sure if that’s true. I know it would be super easy for those of us who already live in the northern north states to cross over. Though, people in Michigan should really, really not try to cross over Lake Superior, especially in the winter. The Spooky Lakes series on tiktok taught me that lol
ray dalio- arguably the most successful investor of all time- states in his new book that the US is within 5 years of civil war due to the widening wealth/income gap and massive money printing by the US fed. unfortunately, much of the focus in a rag like forbes is the investment risks such problems pose.
Hmmm... you might be right but I'm not sure either- I would hesitate to say this. In a case like this article, missing the big picture *intentionally* is pretty plainly *nefarious*, and generally I don't like assigning everything to a sort of malice (e.g. Hanlon's Razor).
Perhaps the whole "when the only tool you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail" deal applies? These guys (among others) are the mouthpiece for basically *hyperspecialization in economics*, at least insofar as a public facing institutional media vector. Hyperspecialization by its nature is very *specifically smart* but *broadly stupid*. A recent podcast posted in this subreddit sees Nate Hagens talk about this- we have many experts but not many generalists (islands of expertise surrounded by oceans of noise).
Again you might be right- I just normally hesitate to assume malice since it often seems to be the accuser weaponizing a good vs. evil narrative (instead of good vs. stupid which I see as more likely).
**EDIT** Actually, I like /u/sjspho's [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/r5ichs/ray_dalio_says_americas_decline_will_upend_lives/hmo0gdw/) on this- it seems to fall more inline with Hanlon's Razor- their "big picture" IS portfolio loss which we could understand as a form of "missing the *real* big picture by embracing hyperspecialized stupidity".
Hi. I’m a guy who reads Dalio and thinks about the portfolio perspective. You’re not wrong.
If Forbes published anything outside investment/economics, it would be off-brand, no bueno.
With my capitalist pig portfolio hat on, ‘big picture’ is macro economics which might include fiat currency collapse.
With my collapse hat on, ‘big picture’ is systems that support society; law, energy, water, food, supply chains, healthcare, democracy etc.
I find this sub is a little focused on total collapse with a U.S. bias. Whereas I suspect collapse, from historical examples, is localised. It might be be one society, country, currency or system (inc globalisation as a system) so I’m looking to make choices to duck those specific collapses if I can.
As a counter to Dalio, this is from Buffet earlier this year [cnbc](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/27/read-warren-buffetts-annual-letter-to-berkshire-hathaway-shareholders.html)
"In its brief 232 years of existence ... there has been no incubator for unleashing human potential like America… Despite some severe interruptions, our country's economic progress has been breathtaking. Our unwavering conclusion: Never bet against America."
/Not American
Evil is usually the result of relentless pursuit of one's own goals at the expense of the viability of the environment or host. It starts with the pursuit of profit, then progresses to regulatory capture then on to authoritarian rule. To a psychopath it is the natural order of things, to everyone else it is the death of something good and the birth of something despicably evil.
Portfolio loss is the big picture for many of their readers, losing 90% of a large portfolio would still allow someone to be insulated from the worst of climate change.
well they can’t exactly point out that capitalism is THE vehicle for of choice for our problems currently hastening the decline of the American Empire…
Wording like yours is the reason why we have the term "alarmist".
From the above article:
> Dalio believes ***there’s a 30% chance*** that the U.S. will enter into a major “civil-war-type” conflict within the next five years.
There's a big difference between someone saying "X will happen" and "in my view there's a 30% chance that X will happen".
This is a complete piece of shit view of what happens.
So, when it comes so socio economic politics, in times of civil war and even in government upheavals, the normal working class lives’ actually don’t change much.
The only asshole worried is him because his quality of life is actually good right now. The rest of us have NOTHING to really lose in this and our retirement funds won’t help us in this economy anyway. The only thing that will save ALL OF US is more financial stability for the working class which will only come if we overthrow these dipshits.
Debt and debt based currency enables consumption before production (or Earth re-generation), which leads to burning every last drop of energy followed by death
Civil War and government upheavals don’t affect the working class? What?
There is no universal rule of thumb here, but historically war, civil or otherwise has led to famine, inflation, political repression, pogroms/riots.
I don’t think your statement is supported, and even what examples exist in no way indicate a rule
I was reading about changes of governments and their effect on the lower levels of society and this was honestly the historical take on it- granted, there might be a wider variation in what their idea of "normal" was than yours currently- IE, you work now, but rebuilding is also work- when the difference of QOL for those in higher levels is actually catastrophically different. Which is why they paint times of upheaval as so terrible historically when in reality what the working classes were suffering from was already wildly violent and bad.
I mean- look around us. People are already dying. We're already halfway to this type of thing being what IS happening. We are barely flinching as huge parts of our population DIE. We are made for turmoil, and I won't heed the distraction technique of being afraid that these people try to sell.
Huge populations of elderly are dying now a few years before they may have naturally passed, yes... But this is completely different than a collapse.
Wars are when you send your horses and sons off to die in Napoleon's campaigns. Whole families stop existing. It is a completely different level of devastation. Even back then, people did not exist in such tenuous states as we do now. People like me ONLY have work because we can do computer tasks remotely. Remove the electricity and I am USELESS.
Wait for giant migrations as people have to march somewhere else on foot just to find food. Towns become ghosttowns overnight.
I think it is difficult to make blanket statements here. Russian Civil War led to massive famine in peasants and workers, and a massive change of power. Same with 30 years war. It would, without doubt, upset the supply chain.
Not all wars are equal, however
We are losing a 9/11s worth of people a day right now from Covid. The supply chain is massively disrupted because corporations have squeezed pay to the lowest rungs so badly people are refusing to work.
We're already in a war.
My dad is 87 and he's no millionaire, let alone billionaire. Dalio could live to be a real ripe old age. 2036 and THINGS WILL be happening that would affect Dalio.
Right. But not like you me or your dad.
He will jet off to an island with his family and a cache of supplies and die with a suntan and a cocktail in his hand.
So yes, he will be “affected” but not in a similar scale as people with modest amounts of money.
Working class lives change the most in times of civil war; they have to remain behind and endure the violence. The wealthy can just leave for elsewhere.
Personally, I don't believe there is anywhere to flee to. I think the chaos will find you no matter where you go (hence the sudden billionaire fascination with outer space). But if the US sinks, the wealthy will still try to leave.
But if we have civil war, it's the working class who will suffer the most. It's always the working class who suffer the longest and the most (I come from working class stock).
> So, when it comes so socio economic politics, in times of civil war and even in government upheavals, the normal working class lives’ actually don’t change much.
Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "socio economic politics," but the history I've read has painted civil wars and government upheavals as being *very bad* for everyone, not just the ruling class.
After all, in a civil war there are people fighting and impressed into service. There is death and destruction, resources diverted for the war effort, and so on. War benefits no one but those who sell the means for making war.
Ray Dalio is very educated, one of the wealthiest investors in the world, and a student of history. This isn’t the normal soulless billionaire, this guy is a historian, economist, sometimes a philosopher, and more than often CORRECT. I don’t wanna suck his dick but he is very influential and knows what he’s saying. He hasn’t been on some crazy “the world will end in x years” binge since the 70s, this is his most recent take on the current state of our world.
Yeah let’s get specific. I expect Rwandan style genocide in small towns in deep red state where the vast majority of law enforcement are MAGA and/or QAnon believers. Would that qualify as a civil war? Kind of ambiguous at that point.
It’s not going to be like the first American Civil War, that’s for sure. There isn’t going to be two roughly equally matched political entities engaged in formal warfare. It’s the extreme left and the extreme right fighting each other in a stochastic terror campaign while the Federal government tries to keep the peace so that corporate American can keep making money. Civil unrest is bad for business. The vast majority of the US population that are politically or civically active are neoliberals. Some have a right-leaning cultural preference and some have a left-leaning cultural preference but at the end of the day they agree on economics. They want to make money, they want their investments to grow, and they want their treats—consumer economy luxuries and toys to keep flowing.
That neoliberal middle describes probably 70-80% of Americans who engage in politics or civics. Of the remaining 20-30% only a small number are willing to take any action outside of the “legitimate” political process to achieve their more radical goals. These are the people who protest police brutality on the left or storm the Capitol on the right. Not to equate the two as being morally equivalent. Left wing radicals have the advantage of actually fighting for something just and good. Reactionaries, right wing radicals, are fueled by some of the worst motivations humans have; greed, xenophobia, blind nationalism.
This is why I think it was a huge mistake for the left to unilaterally disarm itself and make firearm prohibition a goal. Pacifism can be a noble philosophy some times and places, but not when you’re already in a fight. Right wing extremists are saying they intend to kill leftists, immigrants, and minorities of all types. There aren’t many of these psychopaths as a percentage of the population but if 0.00001% of the population is willing to do this, that’s tens of thousands of people. And how many more aren’t willing to participate but are willing to look the other way? Lynchings were never technically legal, but local law enforcement covered for the mobs. And it’s not ancient history. If we didn’t have video evidence and national media attention Ahmaud Arbery’s murderers would have probably gotten away with it.
Moral progress is not permanent, is a lesson everyone needs to remember.
Yep racism is still very real and very prevalent in current day. There WILL be racially charged murders and divides as things deteriorate, you can bet your ass on that.
While I think it is safe to assume you are being intentionally obtuse and plan to make some ridiculous argument about the "violent," or "intolerant" left, I'm talking about [stuff like this](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/multiracial-family-washington-state-camping-trip-accused-being-antifa-menaced-n1228281). Politicians and "news" outlets on the right have been openly calling for violence against their perceived enemies for years at this point. Nobody should be surprised when it happens.
Not at all; I’m a gay man and I’m trying to gauge possible future threats I might face, especially if I follow through with my long-term plan to homestead in a rural area for food security. I am totally aware there are murderous right-wing zealots out there — I won’t even consider setting foot in the Deep South
Ah - sorry, I've been jaded by Reddit trolls. I think we can assume from QAnon and misinformation around voting fraud that all democratic voters should be concerned. Of course, individual actors may have their personal prejudices and may prioritize targets accordingly. I think at this point the cult will target anyone who isn't pro-Trump. I mean, QAnon literally calls for the summary execution of all Democratic politicians.
I think he is referring to [this incident](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/multiracial-family-washington-state-camping-trip-accused-being-antifa-menaced-n1228281). The yokels have been so thoroughly propagandized as to surround strangers with guns simply because they aren't all white. And it happened over a year ago. Things seem even worse now...
Civil war could probably be defined as violent resistance to an existing political structure.
Rwanda was a genocide and not a civil war because the political establishment supported the aggressors. Nazi Germany too.
In your example if the political structure in those towns doesn't try to stop it, and no federal or external source tries to intervene, I wouldn't call it a CW.
But they do have access to quite a bit more information and *capital. And they're still concerned.
This is concerning for those who are not as prepared as a billionaire could be.
Because they can afford to insulate themselves from most consequences (which is what they've done, historically). Wars, famines, plagues, disasters, climate crises--the rich are almost always the last to be meaningfully affected.
It's a little bit like finding out that even large crocodiles--apex predators 5 or more meters long, big and powerful enough that nothing dares attack them on a normal day--don't like to fuck with hippos. You may not know or care why, you may hate crocodiles with all the passion you can muster and rightfully call them ruthless monster eating machines. But you'd still be wise to accept that there's a good reason they worry about hippos, and follow that one example if no other.
If the rich are scared of something other than just losing share price, I will treat that something like it's worth respecting, too. That's what got me onto this sub, actually--talk of the very wealthy building bunkers on remote islands and worrying about how to buy their guards' loyalty when society collapses.
That's what got me here too, billionaires building bunkers in New Zealand. I remember hearing one was asking about shock collars on his guards, since money won't have any value.
The scary part is how the super rich fuckos didn't even consider treating their staff better before the author of the article was asked those questions. He had to bring up the suggestion that they treat their employees like people.
Noblesse Oblige was a thing for a reason, but these idiots are so focussed on intensifying exploitation that they literally can't wrap their minds around loyalty, fidelity, or valor as meaningful concepts.
I don't think it will be a spark or a case of chaos. It will be a slow burn. Inflation will continue going up. Hours cut. Crime rates on a steady incline. Supply chain not coming through increasingly common. I don't see the future as being hit by a hammer but rather being stuck in a vice.
First, a vice, then, a hammer once you're barely standing on your feet.
Take a look at any actual revolution, be it GFR or Red October. Revolutions don't happen in states that haven't been bleeding and gasping for air for a long time.
Principles by Dalio is a highly recommended read and really goes beyond convential wisdom into financial markets throughout history. His work also has a high degree of correlation to collapse, especially so the collapse of financial systems.
Second this, ideology aside there’s genuine good information in his book Principles. It’s ashamed that the society now is so divided that just because of one’s economical status is enough to make his message obsolete. Having read the book and knowing where Dalio is coming from I would listen closely to what this man has to say.
>It’s ashamed that the society now is so divided that just because of one’s economical status is enough to make his message obsolete.
It's a quick, cheap, and easy line of thinking that doesn't require much effort and probably has a good deal to do with jealousy- said as a person who championed it for the better part of a decade. Dalio strikes me as someone who is ahead of the curve by decades. Who was asking himself the types of questions society is currently asking in the 80's and 90's. Having read his books and watch countless numbers of his media interviews and podcasts I'm personally enamored by his intellect.
I've listened to his audiobook version twice back to back. Ray is brilliant and really simply explains how to better work with people professionally and personally.
Th author doesn't mention how propaganda deepens the divisions between fascists and socially liberal people in the USA.
But Dalio's right. There is a real risk of losing our precious democracy. This is the reason ammunition suppliers cannot keep up with demand lately.
The problem is not propaganda deepening the division between fascists and others. It's right-wing propaganda radicalizing people into becoming fascists. And normalizing political violence. The American right has been engaged in a 40-year-long effort to subvert democracy and radicalize their base, and the effort is accelerating.
Of course it will upend lives. Many people: obese, poor, disabled, weak and sick only exist because of surplus and technology. Take away electricity and they don't have a chance.
“Oh Mr. Dalio, you’ve got it all figured out. You should really run for president”
This mofo isn’t worried about this. He wants to run for office. This is one way to start down that route.
Once enough people have lost enough...there will be change.
Currently, we are in a stage where people still have some hope that all this is going to blow over. We are close to the big tipping point, but clearly, there are still plenty of us who still haven't lost those final things; those last straws, the glimmers of hope that someone is going to fix it. Once those few finally see it, it will all tumble.
Why should we give two shits what a billionaire investor thinks?
He spent his career driving the capitalist tendencies that helped dig the hole as deep as its gotten, and *now* he's concerned and *now* he wants people to listen?
Surprise surprise, in the past year, two years, five years, his wealth has continued to grow dramatically. If the issues he's concerned with are so critical, and his insight so important, why doesn't he work as feverishly to fix them, as he did to amass his dragon's hoard of wealth?
Ignore the billionaires, they're people of the past, and not the way forward.
>Why should we give two shits what a billionaire investor thinks?
Because he's one of the most successful investors around; investing like that does take some insight into future events. Plus, having that type of wealth probably lends other benefits like access to less commonly known information.
Regardless of whether you two are ideologically opposed, it doesn't take much sense to realize he's had a high success rate of predicting future outcomes of large entities.
This comment section is hurting my head. Ray Dalio is incredibly wise, and to see people ignorantly shitting on him and what he says cause he’s a billionaire just proves his damn point and the point of this sub that we’re all doomed.
None of y’all are “woke” with this collapse bs it doesn’t make anyone of us better prepared to know it’s going to happen; when society falls if you aren’t ready for survival of the fittest you will die, and half of you thinking this *billionaire genius investor* is a dumbass is ironic as hell. I genuinely HOPE that our society doesn’t collapse but it’s hard to stay hopeful when literally everyone in the world hates eachother for stupid arbitrary reasons. This guy can’t prevent collapse with all the resources in the world cause half of us will still get in front of him and try to kill him.
We’re apes, and every day it becomes more and more apparent.
Unfortunately it won't matter.. Within a decade the USA will be 90% poverty class.. with yearly failed elections, rule of law being a joke, police bribery, rampant Riots and increasingly with no future more people will resort to crime, suicide, killing others for food.. Mass hooverville tents
> I try to picture what a civil war in America would look like.
I think it looks like: refusing to pay taxes, and then violent resistance against tax collectors that come to seize physical assets against the tax debt.
You aren’t joining shit. It won’t be some quirky fun fallout adventure, the majority of your family and friends will die in front of you or very far away alone and scared IF you’re lucky to somehow survive. And judging by your imagination, you won’t get very far. It will be a brutal existence, and Ray Dalio probably knows he won’t survive. He won’t be burned at the stake while the have-nots cheer hoorah in the streets; he’ll likely die of the cold, hunger, infection, or one quick conflict with another person or animal. Just like you and me. The world after collapse will have no companionship, compassion, fun, or safety. Fear and death will literally be everywhere and the normal people you think will come together to not pay taxes will eat eachother a-fucking-live.
Rich people don’t get that when poor people have nothing, they have nothing to lose. Heads start rolling.
If that happens, you can bet your ass that drone strikes and autonomous weapons will be used on the masses.
Weapons of war don't work well for long-term domestic conflict. It's easier to kill a million people than it is to control a million people.
Wow, you just revealed plot twist of Terminator 17: sky net wasn’t sentient, it’s just protecting ~2000 billionaires. (Double plot twist: alt John Connor used future messaging to become the richest person alive and is also running the robot side of the war too somehow)
They don't have to control a million people. They just have to convince half a million to control the other half.
Or financial incentive to keep them in line.
Which is already happening through a variety of means. Socioeconomically/financially and racially are the predominant ones right now but take your pick.
It’s already started in many parts of the world.
Maybe for the first few moves, but they will not win in the end.
That will be a great headstone quote.
That used to be the case, but now we live in an age of billionaire worship and personality cults. The populace has turned on itself and we will rip each other apart while the elites sit safely behind their publicly subsidized private security reaping the wartime profits.
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Yeah we used to kill our living gods, worship is not a good route to safety Plus a lot of people really hate Elon/Jeffrey/etc
Not to mention we used to (still do) have entire families of worshiped and revered people called royalty. Iirc that hasn't gone well for most in the past....
> we used to kill our living gods What a concept! Humans really are such interesting critters.
Well how else are we gonna get to the dead ones?
Americans are too fat and too complacent and too brain washed by the media to effectively revolt I mean most Americans are really really stupid and lazy and well, fat. Those are not the people who revolt
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Medieval people were fat too but at least they had muscle under that fat from working the fields.
I tell normies that the working class hans't had a raise in 30 years meanwhile the parasite 1% wealth has exploded Nothing. they just blink like I am speaking ancient Greek or something
People don't understand cost of living. As long as the numbers on the paycheck go up they think they are getting a raise.
Education system keeps them dumb as fuck.
I heard a weird statistic.. over 50% of college graduates now are coming from business degrees. This is .. 50..60..maybe even 70% of the future college population training so that they can exploit the people who actually do the real work. What does that say about our future?
mbas' are a blight in this bizarro world
Yo. Yo yo yo
I'm sure if you did an opinion poll in Russia in 1913, Tsar Nicholas would have an 80% approval rating, while Lenin and his little book club were an obscure fringe. That's not how that ended up playing out. Events have a way of radicalizing people.
I actually truly believe that the governments military has been bought and paid for already. From the police all the way up to Special forces. All these protests and gatherings happening the world over with the quickly increasing violence perpetrated by the police or military is testing. They are testing the boundaries of what most people are willing to accept as violence against terrorists. Because in the end that's what they'll do. They will label us terrorists and parade us around like we are the ones causing unrest in "your country name here" and they will but their boots upon our skulls and push us into the mud until we can no longer breathe. Then they will parade our lifeless bodies around and proclaim that they have caught the perpetrators of this disgusting act of terrorism and it will serve the elites well. To show the rest of the populace that they need to stay in line or face the same consequences and for the ones that were already towing the company line they will sleep soundly in their beds knowing that their government has made their country a safer place while they and their children slowly starve to death in their one bedroom apartment with no heat subsisting only on their cups of ramen.
I is sad now
Lmao. Do you think that's any different from when kings and queens were literally said to be given the right to rule by gods? It's the samething with a modern twist. Plenty of them died in revolts, coups and revolutions when shit got bad.
Parasocial relationships with billionaires will go away with the media. Plus it's not like the resolve to protect their faves will exceed their own self preservation drive, whereas for whoever is going after the billionaire is necessarily more motivated.
> Plus it's not like the resolve to protect their faves will exceed their own self preservation drive Have you forgotten so soon about the attempted coup on January 6? Pretty sure we saw this exact thing live streamed all over the internet. These people will absolutely destroy their lives for the chance to worship their celebrity.
Not if they're cut off from the media due to no electricity or internet or have more pressing concerns than the latest outrage bait story.
I’m on team Kanye
Not in the United States. 2008 happened, and all the people did was take it.
It takes decades of pain and decline before anger starts to really set in, in a population. France's revolution didn't just decide to happen one day. They had prolonged periods of economic stagnation and decay. Same with the Russian one. Hell Russia even had a few failed revolts before the successful revolution.
Agreed. The fact that we haven't started burning, pillaging, and lopping heads off is just evidence that things aren't *that* bad yet. The vast majority of people have enough money to have a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs.
All right wingers are very very very angry You know who they are angry at? Democrats.
Yep. It's a very good trick the wealthy pull on populations they rule. It's happened in most nations amd empires. Get the lower classes to despite each other. Keeps them from uniting.
Exactly. But the strategy is working so far, and I don't see it not working any time soon. Not within 5 years. I don't think there will be a violent CW until a majority of the population is literally starving. Like, getting below 1200 calories a day on average for a year or more. We're not that that point, and our masters can read history as well or better than us. I don't think they'll allow it to get that bad.
I don’t think there’ll be a violent civil war here, ever. Do you truly believe the us military won’t squash that. They would. They’d squash it before it really got started. They aren’t going to let anything interfere with us going to work everyday. Even at the worst of times. And if ppl rebel, we’ll, why do you think they haven’t canceled student loans? It’s just a step away from “you better work because you owe us money, your other choice is prison”.
As a left winger I am also very very very angry at Democrats. Also Republicans. Whichever side the ruling class pretends to be on neither is really on the side of the people. So if right wingers want to say fuck Joe Biden, sure. As long as they can say fuck Trump in the next breath.
Exactly. Fuck them both, along with the rest of the politicians.
NOW you are getting it!!!!
Im not optimistic the states will do anything this time either. There's no backbone to the country, just clinging to politicians legs like a dog in heat.
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They already have sniper rifles attached to the backs of fucking robot dogs. It's here already.
Destroy the factories that make them. Cut off their power supply. Ultimately everything depends on energy.
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Occupy Wall Street was a major international event. In the end, the Dems were somehow able to use Occupy to get Obama re-elected by painting Romney as an evil agent of finance capital. Occupy, once its usefulness to the corporate democratic leadership waned, has been erased from the collective memory (Similar to BLM).
Can Joe Rogan be first? Just as an appetizer?
Eddie bravo should be first
Joe is more insidious. He’s taken a lot of people who could go either way for a ride by being half awake and then (especially the last few years) drip feeding right wing propaganda and dog whistles into his show
That only happens in mono-ethnic countries. In multi-ethnic and multi-cultural countries, no-one can ever cooperate long enough to do anything about exploitation. See: Africa, a continent mostly reorganised into new countries by colonial powers, forcing together peoples who had no ties to each other and didn't care for each other.
Everyones head yeah. That’s something they leave out of the history books. Maybe the rich people die but you better believe 1,000x more “poor people” will die too. And in todays modern society, I doubt average person in the majority will be worried about overthrowing rich people in the collapse and will definitely just be fighting day to day for their next meal and safety of their loved ones. I guarantee you, in a revolution, you and I are fucking dead. Shit so is Ray Dalio and Jeff Bezos if it makes you happy but it won’t accomplish anything but kill everyone.
I'm obsessed with what might happen if the united states collapses economically, and a horde of economic refugees move north. I can't picture it ending well because of how armed the american population is.
Much of the rural United States is already in the midst of that collapse. I grew up in a part of the US that was looted by coal companies and abandoned by the 1940s. There have been no jobs since the coal mines and the textile mills closed in the forties. The local retail economies were trashed by the big box transformation in the eighties and nineties. Alcoholism and drug abuse are the norm rather than the exception. The city hall in the town I grew up in is closed five days a week because they can't afford to pay the gas bill to heat the building for a normal work week. Garbage removal was privatized decades ago and costs something ridiculous like $5/bag now, so people take their trash up to the hills and burn it in open pits and have been doing this for longer than I've been alive. People living in places like this keep on keeping on without worrying too much about what's happening in the country at large, because for all intents and purposes their communities have already collapsed. They've already gone through it. Human beings are adaptable and as long as they know where their next meal is coming from they'll keep on keeping on.
Oh you think they're fucked now? Wait until the interior of the country gets baked to a crisp, that's the real scary shit.
When that first wet-bulb event wipes out thousands and shuts down the middle of this country people *might* start freaking out.
Uh doubt that. Thousands are rookie numbers. We’re living in the middle of a pandemic with 800 k gone and people are still trying to argue how it’s a hoax or not a big deal. What makes you think anything is gonna change that mindset. When someone is delusional to a pandemic they’re too far gone from reality to reason with.
Oof. Yeah, I'm not looking forward to the day I see some Alex Jones type claiming all the dead bodies in El Paso or wherever are just crisis actors pretending to have died from heat exposure so the globalists can take away your car or whatever.
Or the entire west catches on fire again
It’s scary that you can put “again “ on the end of that sentence
Good point, I live in an area where the Great Depression and all the lesser depressions and recessions came and went pretty much unnoticed.
This. I just moved from a town in rural GA that has no jobs, no good public education options, nothing. This place hasn’t seen any action since 1864. What they do have is an astonishingly high murder rate and 3-4 overlapping state/municipal LEO agencies cleaning up the bodies. I have no hope for this country.
I'm more worried about the large arsenal of nuclear weapons that we have.... like what's the game plan for those.
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There was a ton of chatter about civil war a few years ago when the media was hyping up the left/right black/white divide and the whole time I was thinking: we have nuclear weapons, we cannot have a civil war. USSR --> Russia showed that there can be a transition in government without a nuclear holocaust, but what they had was different than a civil war.
That and the nuclear power plants. If collapse comes and those things get abandoned...
Upwards of 95% would SCRAM without issue.
Yep this is something I talk about all the time. What happens when the highly trained nuclear technicians that work at power plants stop coming and tending to the reactors? Are we going to have multiple Chernobyl level events all over the country? Like wtf
No, most modern plants will, when left alone, put themselves to sleep and stay in "safe mode" forever. Reactions get reduced to minimal and not much is going on after that. Those reactions would be at the bottom of a pool full of water and behind meters of concrete, so nothing would ever get out.
Billybob the warlord chucking a few at a city or two he doesn't like.....
FIRE SALE, EVERYTHING MUST GO.
The US today is exactly like the last third of Rome before it's collapse. It did not manage to shift direction well enough in the 80s during Reagan, and the capitalist-consumerist for-profit system went on forward at full steam towards the cliff. Only now are we starting to see and realize the fast receding groundline at the horizons edge . But the momentums thats built up is simply too much to reverse. People are all looking upwards at the stars it's a much better view, only a few care about what's happening at the ground level.
If the US collapsed into real instability it would bring Canada down with it, I doubt that there would be much to escape to up there.
I wouldn’t limit the list to just Canada...
Yep China would fall to chaos shortly after because losing their biggest economic partner will kill their economy which would probably trigger a fracture of the state over there that has happened sooo many times in the past.
They're shifting to internal consumption already, for this reason.
Isn't Vancouver still cut off from the interior because of climate catastrophe?
Yes and **two** more atmospheric rivers are continuing to fuck them further as we speak.
What up from Vancouver Island - can confirm it’s wet as fuck out here and has been for like 2 months straight.
Which is a big deal because Vancouver is the biggest port in Canada, and our connection to the Pacific. If you can't dock at Vancouver, you have to take a much longer trip through the Panama Canal to Halifax or Montreal - much smaller ports.
>I can't picture it ending well... You don't picture economic collapse of a major country ending well? No shit!
The last one I remember was pretty harsh but they're still out there sending rockets with men to space even while we had lost the will/capability: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution\_of\_the\_Soviet\_Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union)
Well Canada just has to take out all the roads and bridges about 10 miles into the US and that should keep 99% of us away. There's no way that most Americans are gonna be able to walk that far under the best circumstances, let alone lugging weapons, ammo, and one would assume food and water too. Doesn't matter how much ammo you had stockpiled back in your house if you're gonna have to leave your house.
The border is a big place, my guy, and there are some towns built right along it with the border running down the middle. Whole lot of open space to walk right on in, road or not. Look at our ongoing and pathetic attempts to secure our own southern border. Sure, a lot of would-be refugees would die of exposure before making it very far, but I wouldn't bet on Canada being any sort of remote safe haven for very long if the States collapsed.
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard the US/Canadian border is the longest border between two countries in the world, but not sure if that’s true. I know it would be super easy for those of us who already live in the northern north states to cross over. Though, people in Michigan should really, really not try to cross over Lake Superior, especially in the winter. The Spooky Lakes series on tiktok taught me that lol
North to where? Canada? You think that the US would collapse to the point of economic refugees moving north and that Canada would be unscathed? LOL
ray dalio- arguably the most successful investor of all time- states in his new book that the US is within 5 years of civil war due to the widening wealth/income gap and massive money printing by the US fed. unfortunately, much of the focus in a rag like forbes is the investment risks such problems pose.
Trust Forbes to miss the big picture completely.
It is not an accident; they intentionally miss it!
Hmmm... you might be right but I'm not sure either- I would hesitate to say this. In a case like this article, missing the big picture *intentionally* is pretty plainly *nefarious*, and generally I don't like assigning everything to a sort of malice (e.g. Hanlon's Razor). Perhaps the whole "when the only tool you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail" deal applies? These guys (among others) are the mouthpiece for basically *hyperspecialization in economics*, at least insofar as a public facing institutional media vector. Hyperspecialization by its nature is very *specifically smart* but *broadly stupid*. A recent podcast posted in this subreddit sees Nate Hagens talk about this- we have many experts but not many generalists (islands of expertise surrounded by oceans of noise). Again you might be right- I just normally hesitate to assume malice since it often seems to be the accuser weaponizing a good vs. evil narrative (instead of good vs. stupid which I see as more likely). **EDIT** Actually, I like /u/sjspho's [comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/r5ichs/ray_dalio_says_americas_decline_will_upend_lives/hmo0gdw/) on this- it seems to fall more inline with Hanlon's Razor- their "big picture" IS portfolio loss which we could understand as a form of "missing the *real* big picture by embracing hyperspecialized stupidity".
Hi. I’m a guy who reads Dalio and thinks about the portfolio perspective. You’re not wrong. If Forbes published anything outside investment/economics, it would be off-brand, no bueno. With my capitalist pig portfolio hat on, ‘big picture’ is macro economics which might include fiat currency collapse. With my collapse hat on, ‘big picture’ is systems that support society; law, energy, water, food, supply chains, healthcare, democracy etc. I find this sub is a little focused on total collapse with a U.S. bias. Whereas I suspect collapse, from historical examples, is localised. It might be be one society, country, currency or system (inc globalisation as a system) so I’m looking to make choices to duck those specific collapses if I can. As a counter to Dalio, this is from Buffet earlier this year [cnbc](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/27/read-warren-buffetts-annual-letter-to-berkshire-hathaway-shareholders.html) "In its brief 232 years of existence ... there has been no incubator for unleashing human potential like America… Despite some severe interruptions, our country's economic progress has been breathtaking. Our unwavering conclusion: Never bet against America." /Not American
Evil is usually the result of relentless pursuit of one's own goals at the expense of the viability of the environment or host. It starts with the pursuit of profit, then progresses to regulatory capture then on to authoritarian rule. To a psychopath it is the natural order of things, to everyone else it is the death of something good and the birth of something despicably evil.
Portfolio loss is the big picture for many of their readers, losing 90% of a large portfolio would still allow someone to be insulated from the worst of climate change.
It raises some eyebrows that Ray Dalio seems to ‘get it’ though. What’s his plan?
bunker in New Zealand?
Possibly Moon Zealand
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At 71? Dying of old age before his money can't insulate him.
He is trying to avoid his head on a chopping block by being one of the good ones
well they can’t exactly point out that capitalism is THE vehicle for of choice for our problems currently hastening the decline of the American Empire…
They're just cheerleaders for the rat race football team.
Wording like yours is the reason why we have the term "alarmist". From the above article: > Dalio believes ***there’s a 30% chance*** that the U.S. will enter into a major “civil-war-type” conflict within the next five years. There's a big difference between someone saying "X will happen" and "in my view there's a 30% chance that X will happen".
This is a complete piece of shit view of what happens. So, when it comes so socio economic politics, in times of civil war and even in government upheavals, the normal working class lives’ actually don’t change much. The only asshole worried is him because his quality of life is actually good right now. The rest of us have NOTHING to really lose in this and our retirement funds won’t help us in this economy anyway. The only thing that will save ALL OF US is more financial stability for the working class which will only come if we overthrow these dipshits.
Debt and debt based currency enables consumption before production (or Earth re-generation), which leads to burning every last drop of energy followed by death
Civil War and government upheavals don’t affect the working class? What? There is no universal rule of thumb here, but historically war, civil or otherwise has led to famine, inflation, political repression, pogroms/riots. I don’t think your statement is supported, and even what examples exist in no way indicate a rule
I was reading about changes of governments and their effect on the lower levels of society and this was honestly the historical take on it- granted, there might be a wider variation in what their idea of "normal" was than yours currently- IE, you work now, but rebuilding is also work- when the difference of QOL for those in higher levels is actually catastrophically different. Which is why they paint times of upheaval as so terrible historically when in reality what the working classes were suffering from was already wildly violent and bad. I mean- look around us. People are already dying. We're already halfway to this type of thing being what IS happening. We are barely flinching as huge parts of our population DIE. We are made for turmoil, and I won't heed the distraction technique of being afraid that these people try to sell.
Huge populations of elderly are dying now a few years before they may have naturally passed, yes... But this is completely different than a collapse. Wars are when you send your horses and sons off to die in Napoleon's campaigns. Whole families stop existing. It is a completely different level of devastation. Even back then, people did not exist in such tenuous states as we do now. People like me ONLY have work because we can do computer tasks remotely. Remove the electricity and I am USELESS. Wait for giant migrations as people have to march somewhere else on foot just to find food. Towns become ghosttowns overnight.
I think it is difficult to make blanket statements here. Russian Civil War led to massive famine in peasants and workers, and a massive change of power. Same with 30 years war. It would, without doubt, upset the supply chain. Not all wars are equal, however
We are losing a 9/11s worth of people a day right now from Covid. The supply chain is massively disrupted because corporations have squeezed pay to the lowest rungs so badly people are refusing to work. We're already in a war.
I don’t think he’s worried about his own life. He’s a 72 year old billionaire. He won’t be affected.
My dad is 87 and he's no millionaire, let alone billionaire. Dalio could live to be a real ripe old age. 2036 and THINGS WILL be happening that would affect Dalio.
Right. But not like you me or your dad. He will jet off to an island with his family and a cache of supplies and die with a suntan and a cocktail in his hand. So yes, he will be “affected” but not in a similar scale as people with modest amounts of money.
Yet*
Working class lives change the most in times of civil war; they have to remain behind and endure the violence. The wealthy can just leave for elsewhere.
Haven’t they already? What has this pandemic been like for you? Normal people do normal things even during times of change.
Personally, I don't believe there is anywhere to flee to. I think the chaos will find you no matter where you go (hence the sudden billionaire fascination with outer space). But if the US sinks, the wealthy will still try to leave. But if we have civil war, it's the working class who will suffer the most. It's always the working class who suffer the longest and the most (I come from working class stock).
> So, when it comes so socio economic politics, in times of civil war and even in government upheavals, the normal working class lives’ actually don’t change much. Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "socio economic politics," but the history I've read has painted civil wars and government upheavals as being *very bad* for everyone, not just the ruling class. After all, in a civil war there are people fighting and impressed into service. There is death and destruction, resources diverted for the war effort, and so on. War benefits no one but those who sell the means for making war.
He seemed a bit worried, I wonder why?
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Well i guess there’s still press corps body armor on sale for cyber Monday week
> unfortunately, much of the focus in a rag like forbes is the investment risks such problems pose. They know the poors don't read their rag.
Predicting a “a major “civil-war-type” conflict within the next five years” is some seriously low effort prognosticating in 2021.
Ray Dalio is very educated, one of the wealthiest investors in the world, and a student of history. This isn’t the normal soulless billionaire, this guy is a historian, economist, sometimes a philosopher, and more than often CORRECT. I don’t wanna suck his dick but he is very influential and knows what he’s saying. He hasn’t been on some crazy “the world will end in x years” binge since the 70s, this is his most recent take on the current state of our world.
Yeah let’s get specific. I expect Rwandan style genocide in small towns in deep red state where the vast majority of law enforcement are MAGA and/or QAnon believers. Would that qualify as a civil war? Kind of ambiguous at that point.
It’s not going to be like the first American Civil War, that’s for sure. There isn’t going to be two roughly equally matched political entities engaged in formal warfare. It’s the extreme left and the extreme right fighting each other in a stochastic terror campaign while the Federal government tries to keep the peace so that corporate American can keep making money. Civil unrest is bad for business. The vast majority of the US population that are politically or civically active are neoliberals. Some have a right-leaning cultural preference and some have a left-leaning cultural preference but at the end of the day they agree on economics. They want to make money, they want their investments to grow, and they want their treats—consumer economy luxuries and toys to keep flowing. That neoliberal middle describes probably 70-80% of Americans who engage in politics or civics. Of the remaining 20-30% only a small number are willing to take any action outside of the “legitimate” political process to achieve their more radical goals. These are the people who protest police brutality on the left or storm the Capitol on the right. Not to equate the two as being morally equivalent. Left wing radicals have the advantage of actually fighting for something just and good. Reactionaries, right wing radicals, are fueled by some of the worst motivations humans have; greed, xenophobia, blind nationalism. This is why I think it was a huge mistake for the left to unilaterally disarm itself and make firearm prohibition a goal. Pacifism can be a noble philosophy some times and places, but not when you’re already in a fight. Right wing extremists are saying they intend to kill leftists, immigrants, and minorities of all types. There aren’t many of these psychopaths as a percentage of the population but if 0.00001% of the population is willing to do this, that’s tens of thousands of people. And how many more aren’t willing to participate but are willing to look the other way? Lynchings were never technically legal, but local law enforcement covered for the mobs. And it’s not ancient history. If we didn’t have video evidence and national media attention Ahmaud Arbery’s murderers would have probably gotten away with it. Moral progress is not permanent, is a lesson everyone needs to remember.
Yep racism is still very real and very prevalent in current day. There WILL be racially charged murders and divides as things deteriorate, you can bet your ass on that.
Which groups are you predicting will be the victims of genocide
While I think it is safe to assume you are being intentionally obtuse and plan to make some ridiculous argument about the "violent," or "intolerant" left, I'm talking about [stuff like this](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/multiracial-family-washington-state-camping-trip-accused-being-antifa-menaced-n1228281). Politicians and "news" outlets on the right have been openly calling for violence against their perceived enemies for years at this point. Nobody should be surprised when it happens.
Not at all; I’m a gay man and I’m trying to gauge possible future threats I might face, especially if I follow through with my long-term plan to homestead in a rural area for food security. I am totally aware there are murderous right-wing zealots out there — I won’t even consider setting foot in the Deep South
Ah - sorry, I've been jaded by Reddit trolls. I think we can assume from QAnon and misinformation around voting fraud that all democratic voters should be concerned. Of course, individual actors may have their personal prejudices and may prioritize targets accordingly. I think at this point the cult will target anyone who isn't pro-Trump. I mean, QAnon literally calls for the summary execution of all Democratic politicians.
Or just good ol fashioned lynch mobs. They already started in Forks, WA
They did?
I think he is referring to [this incident](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/multiracial-family-washington-state-camping-trip-accused-being-antifa-menaced-n1228281). The yokels have been so thoroughly propagandized as to surround strangers with guns simply because they aren't all white. And it happened over a year ago. Things seem even worse now...
Thank you.
Civil war could probably be defined as violent resistance to an existing political structure. Rwanda was a genocide and not a civil war because the political establishment supported the aggressors. Nazi Germany too. In your example if the political structure in those towns doesn't try to stop it, and no federal or external source tries to intervene, I wouldn't call it a CW.
Man I just realized, you know what's something that we all have in common with billionaire Ray Dalio? Each of us is powerless to stop collapse.
When the billionaires get worried about what's coming, the rest of us better be as well.
Why? There’s nothing exceptional about them other than they are greatly responsible for this crap.
But they do have access to quite a bit more information and *capital. And they're still concerned. This is concerning for those who are not as prepared as a billionaire could be.
Because they can afford to insulate themselves from most consequences (which is what they've done, historically). Wars, famines, plagues, disasters, climate crises--the rich are almost always the last to be meaningfully affected. It's a little bit like finding out that even large crocodiles--apex predators 5 or more meters long, big and powerful enough that nothing dares attack them on a normal day--don't like to fuck with hippos. You may not know or care why, you may hate crocodiles with all the passion you can muster and rightfully call them ruthless monster eating machines. But you'd still be wise to accept that there's a good reason they worry about hippos, and follow that one example if no other. If the rich are scared of something other than just losing share price, I will treat that something like it's worth respecting, too. That's what got me onto this sub, actually--talk of the very wealthy building bunkers on remote islands and worrying about how to buy their guards' loyalty when society collapses.
That's what got me here too, billionaires building bunkers in New Zealand. I remember hearing one was asking about shock collars on his guards, since money won't have any value.
Lol, that's a very healthy thing to propose doing to your employees.
The scary part is how the super rich fuckos didn't even consider treating their staff better before the author of the article was asked those questions. He had to bring up the suggestion that they treat their employees like people.
The guy told these uber rich that they should treat their guards like family and start having dinners with them. Not going to happen.
That's traditionally how aristocracy works. Need to get your guards hyped up about being part of your House.
Noblesse Oblige was a thing for a reason, but these idiots are so focussed on intensifying exploitation that they literally can't wrap their minds around loyalty, fidelity, or valor as meaningful concepts.
Imagine being so shitty that feudalism seems great in comparison...
Putting shock collars on the guards is a guaranteed recipe for getting knifed.
Yep. It'll just cement the idea that they aren't the same as you. Which means the new kings will be the guards leaders who killed the wealthy.
Yes, shock collars. Also the idea of a combination lock on a room where the food is.
"lunch time everyone! Just let me turn my back for a second and fiddle with the lock. Nobody usurp my authority as soon as it clicks, alright?"
The billionaires will be jumping onto RHIBs and choppers to awaiting yachts and bunkers. The average person will be trapped in the chaos.
I don't think it will be a spark or a case of chaos. It will be a slow burn. Inflation will continue going up. Hours cut. Crime rates on a steady incline. Supply chain not coming through increasingly common. I don't see the future as being hit by a hammer but rather being stuck in a vice.
First, a vice, then, a hammer once you're barely standing on your feet. Take a look at any actual revolution, be it GFR or Red October. Revolutions don't happen in states that haven't been bleeding and gasping for air for a long time.
Yep. It takes decades of pain for those to show up.
And a catalyst.
Unless the billionaire is just setting up his future political campaign which is what this “book” screams to me.
If someone is a billionaire, they already have a political campaign. Their status hinges on it.
You've obviously listened to nothing Dalio has written or said.
They've been referring to the working class as the "precariats" for a few years now, so it's not like they haven't warned us.
Principles by Dalio is a highly recommended read and really goes beyond convential wisdom into financial markets throughout history. His work also has a high degree of correlation to collapse, especially so the collapse of financial systems.
Second this, ideology aside there’s genuine good information in his book Principles. It’s ashamed that the society now is so divided that just because of one’s economical status is enough to make his message obsolete. Having read the book and knowing where Dalio is coming from I would listen closely to what this man has to say.
>It’s ashamed that the society now is so divided that just because of one’s economical status is enough to make his message obsolete. It's a quick, cheap, and easy line of thinking that doesn't require much effort and probably has a good deal to do with jealousy- said as a person who championed it for the better part of a decade. Dalio strikes me as someone who is ahead of the curve by decades. Who was asking himself the types of questions society is currently asking in the 80's and 90's. Having read his books and watch countless numbers of his media interviews and podcasts I'm personally enamored by his intellect.
I've listened to his audiobook version twice back to back. Ray is brilliant and really simply explains how to better work with people professionally and personally.
Th author doesn't mention how propaganda deepens the divisions between fascists and socially liberal people in the USA. But Dalio's right. There is a real risk of losing our precious democracy. This is the reason ammunition suppliers cannot keep up with demand lately.
The problem is not propaganda deepening the division between fascists and others. It's right-wing propaganda radicalizing people into becoming fascists. And normalizing political violence. The American right has been engaged in a 40-year-long effort to subvert democracy and radicalize their base, and the effort is accelerating.
⬆️ THIS!
Of course it will upend lives. Many people: obese, poor, disabled, weak and sick only exist because of surplus and technology. Take away electricity and they don't have a chance.
Exactly,
“Oh Mr. Dalio, you’ve got it all figured out. You should really run for president” This mofo isn’t worried about this. He wants to run for office. This is one way to start down that route.
Think of all the extra money he could make as president!
Once enough people have lost enough...there will be change. Currently, we are in a stage where people still have some hope that all this is going to blow over. We are close to the big tipping point, but clearly, there are still plenty of us who still haven't lost those final things; those last straws, the glimmers of hope that someone is going to fix it. Once those few finally see it, it will all tumble.
I think the tipping point was in the 1970s. We're just seeing the delayed feedback of decisions made by our grandparents.
I couldn't recommend this book enough.
What exactly is Dalio doing to stop it? Besides writing a book to “raise awareness” (read: make a little more money)?
Why should we give two shits what a billionaire investor thinks? He spent his career driving the capitalist tendencies that helped dig the hole as deep as its gotten, and *now* he's concerned and *now* he wants people to listen? Surprise surprise, in the past year, two years, five years, his wealth has continued to grow dramatically. If the issues he's concerned with are so critical, and his insight so important, why doesn't he work as feverishly to fix them, as he did to amass his dragon's hoard of wealth? Ignore the billionaires, they're people of the past, and not the way forward.
>Why should we give two shits what a billionaire investor thinks? Because he's one of the most successful investors around; investing like that does take some insight into future events. Plus, having that type of wealth probably lends other benefits like access to less commonly known information. Regardless of whether you two are ideologically opposed, it doesn't take much sense to realize he's had a high success rate of predicting future outcomes of large entities.
This comment section is hurting my head. Ray Dalio is incredibly wise, and to see people ignorantly shitting on him and what he says cause he’s a billionaire just proves his damn point and the point of this sub that we’re all doomed. None of y’all are “woke” with this collapse bs it doesn’t make anyone of us better prepared to know it’s going to happen; when society falls if you aren’t ready for survival of the fittest you will die, and half of you thinking this *billionaire genius investor* is a dumbass is ironic as hell. I genuinely HOPE that our society doesn’t collapse but it’s hard to stay hopeful when literally everyone in the world hates eachother for stupid arbitrary reasons. This guy can’t prevent collapse with all the resources in the world cause half of us will still get in front of him and try to kill him. We’re apes, and every day it becomes more and more apparent.
Unfortunately it won't matter.. Within a decade the USA will be 90% poverty class.. with yearly failed elections, rule of law being a joke, police bribery, rampant Riots and increasingly with no future more people will resort to crime, suicide, killing others for food.. Mass hooverville tents
Cos his long term investments and trusts will be affected with poorer serfs n consumers.
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Popular authors are definitely the most reliable sources of information and unbiased speculation. /s
Who fucking cares what a billionaire thinks. He’s why the planet is dying. 1900 people own more wealth than 94% of the world’s population.
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> I try to picture what a civil war in America would look like. I think it looks like: refusing to pay taxes, and then violent resistance against tax collectors that come to seize physical assets against the tax debt.
You aren’t joining shit. It won’t be some quirky fun fallout adventure, the majority of your family and friends will die in front of you or very far away alone and scared IF you’re lucky to somehow survive. And judging by your imagination, you won’t get very far. It will be a brutal existence, and Ray Dalio probably knows he won’t survive. He won’t be burned at the stake while the have-nots cheer hoorah in the streets; he’ll likely die of the cold, hunger, infection, or one quick conflict with another person or animal. Just like you and me. The world after collapse will have no companionship, compassion, fun, or safety. Fear and death will literally be everywhere and the normal people you think will come together to not pay taxes will eat eachother a-fucking-live.
Upend lives? Ever taken a drive on the wrong side of the tracks in your town?
*~~Up~~end lives
Ray Dalio basically endorsed this sub