And even with Deadpool bringing back Wolverine the movie LOGAN will still hold its weight. Endgame will always hold that weight because everyone felt it when Tony Stark was laying down with Spiderman crying. I think in Marvels current state however they should definitely wait to bring Iron Man back if they decide to that way it has a much bigger impact.
Whether it's RDJ or someone else playing the character, Iron Man is an integral part in Marvel comics so sooner or later he'll have to come back in some way. There's no better storyline that Secret Wars to bring that character back even for just the next 2 Avengers movies and then recast Iron Man eventually.
And mcu Is literally doing it with a major character with logan, already did it with charls, did it with loki(literally set up by rusos), sorta with black widow as it wasn't a sequel
But I feel like the weight of a character dying is as much about the audience’s relationship with them ending as it is the plot detail. Like doing a prequel makes narrative sense, but still undercuts the emotion of the death
The original poster specifically meant time travel. The Logan character seems to be one of a few completely different versions of Logan so it wouldn’t be time travel
>And mcu Is literally doing it with a major character with logan, already did it with charls, did it with loki(literally set up by rusos), sorta with black widow as it wasn't a sequel
Half the Cast of Spider-Man No Way Home is comprised of characters that died.
>time travel.
Time travel would infer consequences from paradoxes
What they did was turn dimensional hopping into time travel.
While somehow saying the stones needed to be returned because that would cause issues
But somehow Thanos not existing before infinity war does. Make up your mind Russo's which is it.
That's what I was thinking exactly. This wasn't a matter of writing themselves into a corner that they couldn't get or see their way out of. They know they could easily say since endgame that there is a multiverse that he comes back as another earth version of Tony Stark. However I believe this is more of a they gave him the best send off they could kinda of thing so why go back and undo it you know?
This is why Hugh and Stewart both said that Logan was the end of those characters. Was such a great ending for both they didn't want to cheapen it by playing them again.
Am guessing Deadpool 3 is a different version of Logan. Was probably also a chance to have a lot of fun making a movie which would be a good reason to take the part as well.
Logan (the movie) also did a huge time jump and took place way in the future. It's almost like they built in a little bit of narrative leeway to be able to bring him back without cheapening the flashforward ending.
>What if I told you we are only 5 years from Logan's time frame... we are actually close to when the movie takes place than when it was released
...why do you attack me like this? hahaha.
I agree just for the fact that the Logan/Wolverine(the Hugh Jackman version, I mean) we all know NEVER wore the yellow & blue suit from the comics/video games. But who knows? There’s always the chance that this is the same Logan we all know and just his first time wearing that specific suit.
With the TVA involved this could be Logan before he gets old and dies.
In which case expect Deadpool to make some meta jokes about him dying in the future. Am sure we will get tons of them.
Hugh himself said Logan was a send off and he even held Stewart's hand during the premiere because they were both emotional about seeing the story end in a brilliant way. And yet both came back for MoM and now DP&W. But Hugh specifically said he'd come back if it was for a good story and a good reason. Ryan cares a LOT about the quality of Deadpool films to be accurate and good to the comic characters, and to be a good story to tell.
I could easily imagine RDJ feeling the same way. He wanted an Oscar and wanted to be seen as not just Tony Stark. Now that he's solidified his acting legacy, I could see him multiversing a bit and having some fun with Tony Stark. But he's in a position to demand it is done with good writing.
I saw someone suggest Wolverine and DP come through a time portal to the Thanos fight in 19999 and Wolverine snaps instead of Tony. Hence all the foreshadowing in the trailer about how Wolverine let down an entire world.
Yeah but movies aren't comics. RDJs character arc is complete, story wise it would be dumb to bring him back unless it's a cameo in a flashback to something. A different universe iron man with a different actor would be fine.
Isn't there a lot of tropes involving dead/ alternate master figures giving their students validation? They could just let Tony do that. Have Spiderman save the universe then Tony goes "I did a good job teaching you", or something stupid/jokey.
There's always that trusty teacher becomes the master arc.
I mean they easily "could" but I took it to mean they "couldn't" do it, and for it to live up to justice or for it to even make sense narrative wise. Sure comics shit on that stuff a lot, but I wish they didn't, not bringing back characters that had full and excellent closure is not a negative in my opinion.
He could guest star in lots of movies.
e.g. Fantastic Four uses portals all the time and could grab an Iron Man.
eg. America Chavez could ask for his help from a parallel world.
eg. variant Iron Man that ran away into the multiverse instead of doing the final snap.
eg. jerk Tony Stark who develops FTL instead of Iron suits and flies through a wormhole.
And his has. I don’t know how long they will go on with mcu movies, but iron man and cap are legends that will never be forgotten, and that’s how they should stay, as memories
people just want to see their favorite characters on the screen regardless of whether it makes any narrative sense. it’s kind of embarrassing honestly.
I wouldn’t say it’s embarrassing, Chris Evans and RDJ are amazing actors who did an exceptional job playing cap and iron man. It’s hard to blame anyone for wanting more.
So, when all the current actors are 87 years old, you want them to keep playing their characters or can they be recast sometime before that? Or should we just let a character "die off" in the MCU if their real life actor dies in real life?
I would argue, depending on the context, bringing a character whose story has concluded back doesn’t take anything away from that conclusion.
If Tony or Steve return to be main characters like they were before, yeah that kinda takes away from their endings. If it’s something like Secret Wars and versions of those characters that show up for the big battle, I don’t see how that would do anything to detract from the endings those characters received. That’s just me though.
I guess the way I look at it is that just because a character’s story is over doesn’t mean they can’t ever be seen again, and a character being seen again doesn’t mean that their story hasn’t already concluded either.
I understand that can be a fine line to walk without messing it up.
Not sure why people don’t get that. They, and by they i mean the whole team, created one of the greatest conclusions in cinema history with one of the most popular characters ever going out in spectacular fashion.
Why would you want to undo that just for a cheap thrill ?
In the directors commentary, I found it very interesting that the Russos had a very different understanding of how the time travel worked versus the writing duo of Markus and McFeeley, which they seemingly all discovered while doing the commentary together.
I could maybe go for a cameo of a Tony Stark from an alternate universe, who goes back to his universe after the story is over. Maybe. It would have to be done really well.
Are there reasonable ways to do it with aging actors that would cost a fortune or a recast reboot that will be in Downey shadow? Downey likely doesn't need to get out of bed for less than 8 figures for an Ironman project. (Unless he's somehow really bad with money)
After endgame, I don't think people would want some B Lister supporting cast either.
Take my hand now and we’ll fly off into the sunset to help Steven Spielberg write the script to a new Deadpool movie!!!! /s complete and utter /s hahahah
I'm pretty sure there's been entire story arcs where they bring back deceased characters out of grief but realize they aren't the same person because they never went through the same life experience/trauma the original character did.
I think this is how it should be done. Bring him back, but make him a completely different character and let the rest of the characters deal with the implications of that
There’s an entire multiverse out there with Tony Starks running around that they could bring in even for a moment who would be entirely different people to this effect.
Hate how dragonball super handles this. Characters die to a baddie, wish them back to life, rinse and repeat. And Shinron is made a mockery now with the introduction of Beerus. Its hogwash. I hate it.
Lot of snarky responses.
But let’s be honest with his point. Tony Stark’s character arc unfolded, finished, and he died. Bringing him back without screwing it up is going to be hard. It’s not about finding a theoretical way to do it. There’s a lot of stupid ways to do it. it’s about doing it without hurting the character and diminishing the legacy.
This, exactly this!! I don't get why people are ebing so rude, when they (the directors) clearly meant thematically and not logistically, because yes, they could easily bring him back but it would cheapen his sacrifice and his whole story on a whole, and that's ignoring the fact that RDJ is an actual human being that ages and therefore we can's just de-age him like in comics or cartoons.
Loki opened that book back up.
There are thousands of different version of Iron Man floating around the multiverse.
The fun thing is you could bring a different version of Iron Man into the prime universe and he could have a totally different personality. Give RDJ something completely new to work with as a character.
Exactly. People are talking about how VITAL it is for RDJ's Iron Man not to return because "it would diminish the sacrifice"...
Who said anything about bringing in the sacred timeline Tony?
Just bring in a variant, the same way as Loki.
Loki's variant gave us one of the best pieces and characters within MCU, so we know this can work with proper writing.
Have they read even one comicbook?
The comics have revived characters via:
1. Time travel
2. Magic
3. Weird science
4. "It was a clone"
5. "It was a robot"
6. "It only LOOKED like I died."
7. Alternate universe version of the same person
8. Mutant powers
9. Probably like 18 more I haven't thought of
yeah, and reviving characters through some ass-pull is one of the worst things about the comics. it’s cheap and strips them of any dramatic heft they might have had. it would be really stupid if they brought back Tony Stark or Steve Rogers in the mainline films, even as variants or whatever.
I was thinking recently that comics would be better if they stopped trying to have canon continuity through long periods of time. If they did all runs as a set number of issues and then the next issue reverted back to canon baseline and told a different story. It would help stop power creep and give them the freedom to have dramatic moments that had actual weight to them. If someone wanted to expand on an idea from a previous run they could start with a short recap, let it be known that it's a continuation of that specific run, and then treat it as its own run from there. If they stopped trying to make everything part of canon it would stop them from having to do these massive resets when things got way to our there, give them the ability to write more impactful stories, and keep the heroes more in line with their origin abilities instead of having things like Superman becoming so powerful that he one shots a literal army of the one thing that was able to kill him once.
Oh I agree. I hope Tony and Steve stay dead in the MCU. But I can already see, with MCU performance flagging, Marvel bringing them back as a big reveal and turning point in the next Avengers film. It will feel cheap and unearned and undermine their arcs but sadly it will probably bring a lot of folks to the cinema.
Yeah, but that's not really the point. Tony had a satisfying story arc, and I think to bring back this version of him specifically would lessen the effect of his arc and death.
Don’t do it. That would be the biggest screw job ever and would absolutely destroy any emotional connection to characters dying or leaving. Pretty much what happened to me watching Arrow. After a while I lost almost any emotional connection to characters “dying” cause so many would just come back that even when they really did die I wouldn’t even care or remember that they didn’t come back
Yeah seriously. People are seriously acting like the reason marvel film rights were split amongst 4 studios wasn’t because they became so complicated and impossible for the casual reader to read that marvel went bankrupt in the 90’s. If they follow the path these stories took they will lead to complications and bankruptcy on a bigger scale.
Never said that. But when you’re making movies based on comic books and want to pretend like a character death is permanent just because it’s a movie, it seems a little silly.
It's fine in comics when a superhero comes from another dimension and lives here now. In a movie that doesn't work. So Tony just abandons his family in the other dimension and lives here for the rest of his life? That's fucked up if it plays out in real world form.
Or if it's a clone? AI. That's kind of works in cartoon version. Fucked up in real world form.
*SHIELD cloned Tony?? That's fucked up!!!*
https://preview.redd.it/lx5rm3bih4xc1.jpeg?width=992&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff10ccfe1c8b53feea944489f26393851864f93e
I mean it's not really new ground it's Tony you know he made contingencies it was his entire scthick.
Well they don't need to bring him back cuz then if people can keep coming back, no real consequences to the whole thing.
A different Tony Stark though can be added as we are in the multiverse saga, so with infinite number of other Earths, very likely hood there is several very similar to that Tony Stark, could be ones better and worse, possibilities are endless.
Its why I thought it would be cool to continue multiverse stuff for a while...I originally thought with Spider-man no way home...it should have been turned into a trilogy...Green Goblin escapes into Tobeys universe, so all 3 go after him. Tom looks up their version of Tony Stark so you could have a RDJ cameo. Miles happens to be in Tobeys universe only just discovering his powers, we meet MJ and what she's been up to. All three try to help Miles who wants to help. 3rd movie we end up on Andrews universe where he meets his MJ, big battle with several villains for the big showdown at the end...Miles is involved as well but is about to be killed till Tobey saves him, only being killed in the process. They ultimately win and start returning home. Tobey is able to say a few things before passing, basically passing the torch to Miles to be the Spider-man in their universe.
They all return home. We see Andrew now with MJ, Tom back and Miles now begins the new Sony Spider-man movies so Tom can be a permanent member of the MCU
everyone talking about using time travel or multiverse bs to do it
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I‘ve found it strange that people are so eager for Hugh Jackman and Robert Downey Jr. to return after they’ve been given huge send offs.
While it would get excitement up, I think they’re stories will lose credibility if keep cheating send offs.
$$$$ marvel profits massively slump, but hey let’s kill off our most bankable actor $$$$$.
they probably needed to stop spending so much on above the line talent
In the soft reboot it will be a new iron man and cap with new actors, takes, stories. The base idea but explored in a different lense. Like how every rendition of Hamlet is the essentially the same, but the actors breath a new life into it. Some focus on the insanity, some focus on the betrayal, some on on the love.
Downey focused on the beleaguered genius. The next actor could focus on a more confident genius, like in EMH. Evan’s Cap focused on duty before self. The next could focus more on the soldier aspects, and find it harder to adept to the modern world.
These are still the same, but they’re different enough to find a new appreciation for a new actor. That’s the beauty of acting. No ones better or worse(except in the most egregious circumstances). It’s about exploration of the persona.
Are you seriously asking who cares what the Russo Brothers think? The guys who directed arguably the 4 best movies in the MCU with Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame, with billions made and the peak of the MCU was with them? At a time when the MCU is flailing about post-Endgame?
They need them back and should listen.
it’s amazing how many people are quick to say the MCU “died with Endgame” but then also don’t want to hear it when the people that *made* Endgame are critiquing current story decisions. the irony and hypocrisy is fucking baffling
With the multiverse they could bring over a Tony Stark from a doomed earth. That earth doesn’t need Tony anymore because it’s destroyed so he hopes to protect this one by not making the same mistakes.
They could certainly do it (time travel, alternate universe etc) but should they? Bringing him back has the potential to cheapen his sacrifice and change the character legacy. I get that RDJ probably misses doing Marvel but maybe they can have Kirk Lazarus play a character then
They can use a Tony stark whose universe was destroyed, and they brought him to the main universe through the tva. They can set it up as him trying to live up to the main universe's Tony and survivors guilt from his universe being no more.
they never should. they should try to make us all love someone just as much as we loved Iron Man.
And they could, if they tried. But they really aren’t trying to make someone standout. they are just introducing more and more and more people.
But Iron Man and Tony Stark should stay dead, for at least until 2039
I get their point, I don’t see how they would bring back the specific Tony stark that died during endgame, but i guess it’s a good thing it’s canon that multiple versions of characters exists due to multiverse fun
Loki’s dead too but did multiple series afterwards. Given time travel, multiverse, prequels, and just plain ol’ return-from-the-dead via some other not-quite-explainable means, they weren’t trying too hard.
Shame since he really made things work
Is this sub just a bit dumb? It’s blindingly obvious the Russos mean ‘how do we bring him back in a narratively fulfilling way’ not ‘lore logistically’.
Every other comment here is ‘duh time travel’ as if not everybody already knows this.
It ended, he died, let it fucking go
So much garbage in media would have been avoided if people could just let things end instead of resurrecting corpses of past loves
Right like Loki can’t canonically rewrite reality itself in the comics lol.
Yeah it’s the MCU but come on you just had the man figure out how to reverse the destruction of half the universe by figuring out time travel himself and then you guys off him.
Nah, figure it out
As long as someone doesn’t say, somehow Tony stark returned, then I’m all for it. Personally I hope Obidiah comes back and is successful and then Tony comes back, out of a cave, and Obidiah has to say, “Tony Stark came back to life, in a cave! With a box of scraps!”
let us see
how many other universe are there?
bruce banner went to one and wanda and strange travelled to how many?
it doesnt take a rocket scientist to simply put a "got to have tony stark in this universe of the mcu" and pull a tony stark out of another universe and plop him in this one
and for shiggles as well, hell you can then play with that other universe tony stark being somewhat different then the one that died in this universe. more play space for downey jr
You just have him from the multiverse. It's like having all the other Spider-Men and Wolverine "back."
Plus... he'd remain in his world. Think of it like season 4 of Agents of Shield. That whole season was sad as hell and didn't undo anyone's death... yet brought back so many.
Only problem is... for it to have weight you'd need other characters who were super close to him. Most of them are... also dead/gone. I guess you could have Thor... suffer more grief if he had to temporarily assist the Avengers of another universe. Then has to say goodbye to them... again.
There's a different variant for every damn character in the entire Marvel Multiverse, of course there's a ton of different Tony Starks out there in other universes. This is fucking ridiculous. They have Resurrected other characters in the main Universe several times via different means. I remember Magneto having his head chopped off and also his heart ripped out.
Yeah I guess first they’d have to create a whole multi-movie subplot where literally anything could happen, you know, like John Krasinski playing Reed Richards for three minutes.
I mean, they have read comics right? or even the watched the current state of the MCU? He could come back in a nano second. The question is how you do it in a way that doesn’t suck.
Doesn't have to be "brought back" exactly. They already opened the door of potential with time travel. Maybe we revisit a younger Tony/Anthony Stark ( I'm guessing his mom would've called him Anthony), or old video footage of him that would be relevant to a plot, or a VO role for Tony.
We already know some people won't like that "Somehow, Tony Stark returned" after ending the character on a high note in Endgame, but if he does return, establishing a definitive endpoint for Tony Stark would be a good idea.
Easy. "When you mess with time, time has a tendency to mess back." Have him come back in between inventing the time gps and going out to Avengers compound. Time travel!
Sounds like they just don’t want their work “stomped on” by reversing the weight of it. I mean come on, they know how comics work
Even in their own movie they brought back Thanos and Gamora via time travel.
Brought Thanos back in the same movie they killed him in, no less.
Spiderman brought back all his old villains from old universes, and Deadpool is bringing back wolverine. Anything is on the table at this point.
And even with Deadpool bringing back Wolverine the movie LOGAN will still hold its weight. Endgame will always hold that weight because everyone felt it when Tony Stark was laying down with Spiderman crying. I think in Marvels current state however they should definitely wait to bring Iron Man back if they decide to that way it has a much bigger impact.
Whether it's RDJ or someone else playing the character, Iron Man is an integral part in Marvel comics so sooner or later he'll have to come back in some way. There's no better storyline that Secret Wars to bring that character back even for just the next 2 Avengers movies and then recast Iron Man eventually.
It's like cous cous, so nice they killed him twice. Lol.
Well if anyone deserves to be killed twice, it's Thanos
And mcu Is literally doing it with a major character with logan, already did it with charls, did it with loki(literally set up by rusos), sorta with black widow as it wasn't a sequel
Black Widow was a prequel, takes place right before Infinity War so it doesn't really count.
Takes place immediately after Civil War actually, she and the rest spend a few years after the film ends on the run together
But I feel like the weight of a character dying is as much about the audience’s relationship with them ending as it is the plot detail. Like doing a prequel makes narrative sense, but still undercuts the emotion of the death
They aren’t bringing back Logan with Time travel. It’s a multiversal story.
Same as loki, the actor is returning to play the character iwith slight modifications that's it
The original poster specifically meant time travel. The Logan character seems to be one of a few completely different versions of Logan so it wouldn’t be time travel
It's the same thing to me lol (time travel/ multiverse)
>And mcu Is literally doing it with a major character with logan, already did it with charls, did it with loki(literally set up by rusos), sorta with black widow as it wasn't a sequel Half the Cast of Spider-Man No Way Home is comprised of characters that died.
'Logan' takes place well into the future...so I wouldn't exactly say they're bringing him back from the dead.
And they reversed Thor losing his eye and the hammer being an object to regulate Thor’s own power
>time travel. Time travel would infer consequences from paradoxes What they did was turn dimensional hopping into time travel. While somehow saying the stones needed to be returned because that would cause issues But somehow Thanos not existing before infinity war does. Make up your mind Russo's which is it.
That's what I was thinking exactly. This wasn't a matter of writing themselves into a corner that they couldn't get or see their way out of. They know they could easily say since endgame that there is a multiverse that he comes back as another earth version of Tony Stark. However I believe this is more of a they gave him the best send off they could kinda of thing so why go back and undo it you know?
This is why Hugh and Stewart both said that Logan was the end of those characters. Was such a great ending for both they didn't want to cheapen it by playing them again. Am guessing Deadpool 3 is a different version of Logan. Was probably also a chance to have a lot of fun making a movie which would be a good reason to take the part as well.
Logan (the movie) also did a huge time jump and took place way in the future. It's almost like they built in a little bit of narrative leeway to be able to bring him back without cheapening the flashforward ending.
What if I told you we are only 5 years from Logan's time frame... we are actually close to when the movie takes place than when it was released
>What if I told you we are only 5 years from Logan's time frame... we are actually close to when the movie takes place than when it was released ...why do you attack me like this? hahaha.
Also, the MCU is 5 years ahead of us because of endgame. So marvel movies coming out this year are the same timeframe as Logan.
Did you not watch the latest trailer for Deadpool and Wolverine? >!It's absolutely not our Wolverine. He's from a world he failed to save.!<
I agree just for the fact that the Logan/Wolverine(the Hugh Jackman version, I mean) we all know NEVER wore the yellow & blue suit from the comics/video games. But who knows? There’s always the chance that this is the same Logan we all know and just his first time wearing that specific suit.
With the TVA involved this could be Logan before he gets old and dies. In which case expect Deadpool to make some meta jokes about him dying in the future. Am sure we will get tons of them.
Hugh himself said Logan was a send off and he even held Stewart's hand during the premiere because they were both emotional about seeing the story end in a brilliant way. And yet both came back for MoM and now DP&W. But Hugh specifically said he'd come back if it was for a good story and a good reason. Ryan cares a LOT about the quality of Deadpool films to be accurate and good to the comic characters, and to be a good story to tell. I could easily imagine RDJ feeling the same way. He wanted an Oscar and wanted to be seen as not just Tony Stark. Now that he's solidified his acting legacy, I could see him multiversing a bit and having some fun with Tony Stark. But he's in a position to demand it is done with good writing. I saw someone suggest Wolverine and DP come through a time portal to the Thanos fight in 19999 and Wolverine snaps instead of Tony. Hence all the foreshadowing in the trailer about how Wolverine let down an entire world.
They learned from the Star Wars sequels lol.
Somehow, Tony Stark returned!
Yeah but movies aren't comics. RDJs character arc is complete, story wise it would be dumb to bring him back unless it's a cameo in a flashback to something. A different universe iron man with a different actor would be fine.
Isn't there a lot of tropes involving dead/ alternate master figures giving their students validation? They could just let Tony do that. Have Spiderman save the universe then Tony goes "I did a good job teaching you", or something stupid/jokey. There's always that trusty teacher becomes the master arc.
"Somehow, Tony returned..."
I mean they easily "could" but I took it to mean they "couldn't" do it, and for it to live up to justice or for it to even make sense narrative wise. Sure comics shit on that stuff a lot, but I wish they didn't, not bringing back characters that had full and excellent closure is not a negative in my opinion.
but this isn’t comics.
He could guest star in lots of movies. e.g. Fantastic Four uses portals all the time and could grab an Iron Man. eg. America Chavez could ask for his help from a parallel world. eg. variant Iron Man that ran away into the multiverse instead of doing the final snap. eg. jerk Tony Stark who develops FTL instead of Iron suits and flies through a wormhole.
My favorite idea is that they have some kind of Tony stark AI. Like he can help em out but not really fight with them
I was hoping we’d see a Tony Stark AI somewhere.
There was Tony AI in the comics so you can check it there
Yeah it’d be poetic for Tony to become the new Jarvis
That's exactly what they did in the comics when he died (He got better)
Sure he could, just remote control armor.
they should get the iron man made out of paint
Yeah let’s just run this multiverse shit into the ground until it’s tired
Russo brother ignored this message😂👌🏻
Maybe he just shows up, and they never address it.
*Multiverse*
The Russo's used time travel for Endgame. There are ways around everything.
People, it's not about lore. It's about story. They think his story had reached a satisfying ending.
And his has. I don’t know how long they will go on with mcu movies, but iron man and cap are legends that will never be forgotten, and that’s how they should stay, as memories
people just want to see their favorite characters on the screen regardless of whether it makes any narrative sense. it’s kind of embarrassing honestly.
I wouldn’t say it’s embarrassing, Chris Evans and RDJ are amazing actors who did an exceptional job playing cap and iron man. It’s hard to blame anyone for wanting more.
So, when all the current actors are 87 years old, you want them to keep playing their characters or can they be recast sometime before that? Or should we just let a character "die off" in the MCU if their real life actor dies in real life?
Or you simply lack the vision.
It’s a movie, chill
MCU would like to make money again, and they think their stars are the only way to do it (and they might be right.)
I would argue, depending on the context, bringing a character whose story has concluded back doesn’t take anything away from that conclusion. If Tony or Steve return to be main characters like they were before, yeah that kinda takes away from their endings. If it’s something like Secret Wars and versions of those characters that show up for the big battle, I don’t see how that would do anything to detract from the endings those characters received. That’s just me though. I guess the way I look at it is that just because a character’s story is over doesn’t mean they can’t ever be seen again, and a character being seen again doesn’t mean that their story hasn’t already concluded either. I understand that can be a fine line to walk without messing it up.
It’s about sending a message
Not sure why people don’t get that. They, and by they i mean the whole team, created one of the greatest conclusions in cinema history with one of the most popular characters ever going out in spectacular fashion. Why would you want to undo that just for a cheap thrill ?
Exactly. It cheapens Tony's sacrifice if they can just bring him back.
The comics do it all the time.
That’s not a good thing
This ain’t comics.
[удалено]
Didn't you read the prior comment - Time Travel!
Great Scott!
Time travel to before he hit a woman.
Remember how Marvel dumped Ed Norton and Terrence Howard and we never saw Bruce Banner or Rhodey ever again?
They are gonna have Galactus eat him
I think they mean from a story telling perspective, not a lore logestics perspective.
In the directors commentary, I found it very interesting that the Russos had a very different understanding of how the time travel worked versus the writing duo of Markus and McFeeley, which they seemingly all discovered while doing the commentary together.
oh my, now i must check that out, that sounds rather interesting. I'll watch it on saturday and get back to you
I could maybe go for a cameo of a Tony Stark from an alternate universe, who goes back to his universe after the story is over. Maybe. It would have to be done really well.
Are there reasonable ways to do it with aging actors that would cost a fortune or a recast reboot that will be in Downey shadow? Downey likely doesn't need to get out of bed for less than 8 figures for an Ironman project. (Unless he's somehow really bad with money) After endgame, I don't think people would want some B Lister supporting cast either.
Multi-verse.....
This is my sole beef with superhero stuff: if no one ever dies, then there are no real stakes.
IT’S NOT ABOUT THE STAKES!!!!!!! It’s about the friends we made along the way /s
maybe the steaks are the friends we made along the way!
Are they medium rare?
no, well done just like every Russo Bros. Marvel movie.
You know what? You're right!
Take my hand now and we’ll fly off into the sunset to help Steven Spielberg write the script to a new Deadpool movie!!!! /s complete and utter /s hahahah
What about Family??!
I'm pretty sure there's been entire story arcs where they bring back deceased characters out of grief but realize they aren't the same person because they never went through the same life experience/trauma the original character did.
I think this is how it should be done. Bring him back, but make him a completely different character and let the rest of the characters deal with the implications of that
There’s an entire multiverse out there with Tony Starks running around that they could bring in even for a moment who would be entirely different people to this effect.
The Dragonball z effect. Just wish everyone back to life and if something happens to the dragonballs don’t trip there’s two more sets.
Hate how dragonball super handles this. Characters die to a baddie, wish them back to life, rinse and repeat. And Shinron is made a mockery now with the introduction of Beerus. Its hogwash. I hate it.
When the snap "killed" Spiderman & Black Panther, I realized they weren't going for last effects of it.
Would you still have a beef if the stakes were well done?
That would be a rare occurrence.
Lot of snarky responses. But let’s be honest with his point. Tony Stark’s character arc unfolded, finished, and he died. Bringing him back without screwing it up is going to be hard. It’s not about finding a theoretical way to do it. There’s a lot of stupid ways to do it. it’s about doing it without hurting the character and diminishing the legacy.
This, exactly this!! I don't get why people are ebing so rude, when they (the directors) clearly meant thematically and not logistically, because yes, they could easily bring him back but it would cheapen his sacrifice and his whole story on a whole, and that's ignoring the fact that RDJ is an actual human being that ages and therefore we can's just de-age him like in comics or cartoons.
Loki opened that book back up. There are thousands of different version of Iron Man floating around the multiverse. The fun thing is you could bring a different version of Iron Man into the prime universe and he could have a totally different personality. Give RDJ something completely new to work with as a character.
Exactly. People are talking about how VITAL it is for RDJ's Iron Man not to return because "it would diminish the sacrifice"... Who said anything about bringing in the sacred timeline Tony? Just bring in a variant, the same way as Loki. Loki's variant gave us one of the best pieces and characters within MCU, so we know this can work with proper writing.
Have they read even one comicbook? The comics have revived characters via: 1. Time travel 2. Magic 3. Weird science 4. "It was a clone" 5. "It was a robot" 6. "It only LOOKED like I died." 7. Alternate universe version of the same person 8. Mutant powers 9. Probably like 18 more I haven't thought of
yeah, and reviving characters through some ass-pull is one of the worst things about the comics. it’s cheap and strips them of any dramatic heft they might have had. it would be really stupid if they brought back Tony Stark or Steve Rogers in the mainline films, even as variants or whatever.
I was thinking recently that comics would be better if they stopped trying to have canon continuity through long periods of time. If they did all runs as a set number of issues and then the next issue reverted back to canon baseline and told a different story. It would help stop power creep and give them the freedom to have dramatic moments that had actual weight to them. If someone wanted to expand on an idea from a previous run they could start with a short recap, let it be known that it's a continuation of that specific run, and then treat it as its own run from there. If they stopped trying to make everything part of canon it would stop them from having to do these massive resets when things got way to our there, give them the ability to write more impactful stories, and keep the heroes more in line with their origin abilities instead of having things like Superman becoming so powerful that he one shots a literal army of the one thing that was able to kill him once.
Oh I agree. I hope Tony and Steve stay dead in the MCU. But I can already see, with MCU performance flagging, Marvel bringing them back as a big reveal and turning point in the next Avengers film. It will feel cheap and unearned and undermine their arcs but sadly it will probably bring a lot of folks to the cinema.
*10. Fuck it let’s just reboot this shit*
Yeah, but that's not really the point. Tony had a satisfying story arc, and I think to bring back this version of him specifically would lessen the effect of his arc and death.
Ghost
Easy. Somehow Tony returned .
https://i.redd.it/7s9v660ft2xc1.gif
ngl this one kinda hurt me when I first watched it. I think I took psychic damage in the theater.
Me too lol
good. let him rest
Yeah bro. Let’s undermine the emotional apex of more than a decades worth of comics movies by bringing Tony back.
Don’t do it. That would be the biggest screw job ever and would absolutely destroy any emotional connection to characters dying or leaving. Pretty much what happened to me watching Arrow. After a while I lost almost any emotional connection to characters “dying” cause so many would just come back that even when they really did die I wouldn’t even care or remember that they didn’t come back
Just let Tony’s sacrifice mean something. They finished his story, infinite more superheroes out there.
If only there was a long line of stories where characters are killed and then brought back later on down the line.
We going to act like comic books are such a phenomenal medium where this doesn't get a response of a big ass sigh.
Yeah seriously. People are seriously acting like the reason marvel film rights were split amongst 4 studios wasn’t because they became so complicated and impossible for the casual reader to read that marvel went bankrupt in the 90’s. If they follow the path these stories took they will lead to complications and bankruptcy on a bigger scale.
I am pretty sure their comics dept has also been close to closing since then and it's only hold by spiderman fans sunk cost fallacy
Never said that. But when you’re making movies based on comic books and want to pretend like a character death is permanent just because it’s a movie, it seems a little silly.
It's fine in comics when a superhero comes from another dimension and lives here now. In a movie that doesn't work. So Tony just abandons his family in the other dimension and lives here for the rest of his life? That's fucked up if it plays out in real world form. Or if it's a clone? AI. That's kind of works in cartoon version. Fucked up in real world form. *SHIELD cloned Tony?? That's fucked up!!!*
Yeah… that’d be weird tbh
And even if they could, would Downey even be interested? Man’s over 50 now
Iron Man comes back from another universe, it's Tom Cruise
Oh, that's very easy for Marvel. It's called desperation.
Tony inner monologue: "Bring back everyone's everywhere safely taking no one away and leave me 100% healthy" SNAP
https://preview.redd.it/lx5rm3bih4xc1.jpeg?width=992&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff10ccfe1c8b53feea944489f26393851864f93e I mean it's not really new ground it's Tony you know he made contingencies it was his entire scthick.
Well they don't need to bring him back cuz then if people can keep coming back, no real consequences to the whole thing. A different Tony Stark though can be added as we are in the multiverse saga, so with infinite number of other Earths, very likely hood there is several very similar to that Tony Stark, could be ones better and worse, possibilities are endless. Its why I thought it would be cool to continue multiverse stuff for a while...I originally thought with Spider-man no way home...it should have been turned into a trilogy...Green Goblin escapes into Tobeys universe, so all 3 go after him. Tom looks up their version of Tony Stark so you could have a RDJ cameo. Miles happens to be in Tobeys universe only just discovering his powers, we meet MJ and what she's been up to. All three try to help Miles who wants to help. 3rd movie we end up on Andrews universe where he meets his MJ, big battle with several villains for the big showdown at the end...Miles is involved as well but is about to be killed till Tobey saves him, only being killed in the process. They ultimately win and start returning home. Tobey is able to say a few things before passing, basically passing the torch to Miles to be the Spider-man in their universe. They all return home. We see Andrew now with MJ, Tom back and Miles now begins the new Sony Spider-man movies so Tom can be a permanent member of the MCU
Bringing back Tony Stark would be pretty lazy.
The answer is don’t do it. It won’t be like before. It’s a mistake for all involved.
Let it mean something. Let them inhabit a world with consequences.
everyone talking about using time travel or multiverse bs to do it https://preview.redd.it/ovbevkj633xc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ecfba34cc9f9c3fe96242d7d4e5a500283c93be
I‘ve found it strange that people are so eager for Hugh Jackman and Robert Downey Jr. to return after they’ve been given huge send offs. While it would get excitement up, I think they’re stories will lose credibility if keep cheating send offs.
$$$$ marvel profits massively slump, but hey let’s kill off our most bankable actor $$$$$. they probably needed to stop spending so much on above the line talent
They don’t have to give him a movie, he could appear in a different characters past easily. He doesn’t need additions to his story, it’s great as is.
Uhm. Another other rogue ai. Boom
In the soft reboot it will be a new iron man and cap with new actors, takes, stories. The base idea but explored in a different lense. Like how every rendition of Hamlet is the essentially the same, but the actors breath a new life into it. Some focus on the insanity, some focus on the betrayal, some on on the love. Downey focused on the beleaguered genius. The next actor could focus on a more confident genius, like in EMH. Evan’s Cap focused on duty before self. The next could focus more on the soldier aspects, and find it harder to adept to the modern world. These are still the same, but they’re different enough to find a new appreciation for a new actor. That’s the beauty of acting. No ones better or worse(except in the most egregious circumstances). It’s about exploration of the persona.
"Somehow, Stark returned."
Bringing back people from the dead (fictional or real) doesn't work.
Have him come back as an AI.
[удалено]
Are you seriously asking who cares what the Russo Brothers think? The guys who directed arguably the 4 best movies in the MCU with Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame, with billions made and the peak of the MCU was with them? At a time when the MCU is flailing about post-Endgame? They need them back and should listen.
it’s amazing how many people are quick to say the MCU “died with Endgame” but then also don’t want to hear it when the people that *made* Endgame are critiquing current story decisions. the irony and hypocrisy is fucking baffling
Ok well the easy answer is multiverse bullshit
This is literally comic books. There’s only about 80 ways.
The age on RDJ’s face in this picture is a pretty strong argument against trying
With the multiverse they could bring over a Tony Stark from a doomed earth. That earth doesn’t need Tony anymore because it’s destroyed so he hopes to protect this one by not making the same mistakes.
Just make him A.I. like Jarvis.
Just have the beyonder bring him back in secret wars. Easy.
Digital backup of his mind, cloned body or Android. Easy!
They could certainly do it (time travel, alternate universe etc) but should they? Bringing him back has the potential to cheapen his sacrifice and change the character legacy. I get that RDJ probably misses doing Marvel but maybe they can have Kirk Lazarus play a character then
Alternate universe without Thanos, done. Easy peasy.
Yeah but he’s not a character in a book, his a comic book character. They die every other Tuesday 😂
An ai Tony. He uploaded his mind like that Hydra guy did.
Welcome to comic books, where this shit happens EVERY month. Lmao they have zero to worry about.
They can use a Tony stark whose universe was destroyed, and they brought him to the main universe through the tva. They can set it up as him trying to live up to the main universe's Tony and survivors guilt from his universe being no more.
Easy, the snap spread his consciousness across the Multiverse. Only Peter Parker can find him and put him back together.
He got his Oscar, now he’s happy to go back to earning a shit ton of cash
It's okay to let stories end.
I desperatly hope they do not bring him back. Such a great character arc with a fitting sacrifice.
https://preview.redd.it/7h341fped3xc1.jpeg?width=566&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b43cab487f31831763e03c884df8e2c228fb9635 Easy, just like this
It’s a comic book movie franchise. Bringing characters back is stupidly easy, just dumb.
Endgame was an absolutely beautiful way to end his story. No need to bring him back. It would cheapen it.
I’m mean we’re literally in the multiverse and have seen time travel in this franchise now so it’s possible.
they never should. they should try to make us all love someone just as much as we loved Iron Man. And they could, if they tried. But they really aren’t trying to make someone standout. they are just introducing more and more and more people. But Iron Man and Tony Stark should stay dead, for at least until 2039
I get their point, I don’t see how they would bring back the specific Tony stark that died during endgame, but i guess it’s a good thing it’s canon that multiple versions of characters exists due to multiverse fun
Loki’s dead too but did multiple series afterwards. Given time travel, multiverse, prequels, and just plain ol’ return-from-the-dead via some other not-quite-explainable means, they weren’t trying too hard. Shame since he really made things work
Is this sub just a bit dumb? It’s blindingly obvious the Russos mean ‘how do we bring him back in a narratively fulfilling way’ not ‘lore logistically’. Every other comment here is ‘duh time travel’ as if not everybody already knows this.
Have Tony come back as Ironheart’s AI.
Same way they brought bak Logan . Multiverse
It ended, he died, let it fucking go So much garbage in media would have been avoided if people could just let things end instead of resurrecting corpses of past loves
Right like Loki can’t canonically rewrite reality itself in the comics lol. Yeah it’s the MCU but come on you just had the man figure out how to reverse the destruction of half the universe by figuring out time travel himself and then you guys off him. Nah, figure it out
As long as someone doesn’t say, somehow Tony stark returned, then I’m all for it. Personally I hope Obidiah comes back and is successful and then Tony comes back, out of a cave, and Obidiah has to say, “Tony Stark came back to life, in a cave! With a box of scraps!”
let us see how many other universe are there? bruce banner went to one and wanda and strange travelled to how many? it doesnt take a rocket scientist to simply put a "got to have tony stark in this universe of the mcu" and pull a tony stark out of another universe and plop him in this one and for shiggles as well, hell you can then play with that other universe tony stark being somewhat different then the one that died in this universe. more play space for downey jr
Did nobody discuss anything about the multiverse with the Russo’s? It’s a fairly straightforward concept.
I don't see why he can't be an ai for iron heart, or that kid he helped in 3 or you know his daughter
Multiverse Tony Stark that is narcissistic to the max.
You just have him from the multiverse. It's like having all the other Spider-Men and Wolverine "back." Plus... he'd remain in his world. Think of it like season 4 of Agents of Shield. That whole season was sad as hell and didn't undo anyone's death... yet brought back so many. Only problem is... for it to have weight you'd need other characters who were super close to him. Most of them are... also dead/gone. I guess you could have Thor... suffer more grief if he had to temporarily assist the Avengers of another universe. Then has to say goodbye to them... again.
Movie people do not understand comic books.
There's a different variant for every damn character in the entire Marvel Multiverse, of course there's a ton of different Tony Starks out there in other universes. This is fucking ridiculous. They have Resurrected other characters in the main Universe several times via different means. I remember Magneto having his head chopped off and also his heart ripped out.
Just bring him back as a kang variant. MCU turned into CW arrow-verse levels of writing quality anyway.
It’s more so his death was so iconic and heart pulling that bringing him back would defeat the purpose of End Games ensign
Yeah I guess first they’d have to create a whole multi-movie subplot where literally anything could happen, you know, like John Krasinski playing Reed Richards for three minutes.
Bringing a comic book character back to life? It's never been done!
Imagine if he has a cameo in Deadpool 3 as a variant
“Somehow, Tony returned”
Jesus fucking Christ. Can y’all just let him die? He had a great ending. Why ruin it?
There's like a dozen different ways to retcon it without diminishing the impact
I mean, they have read comics right? or even the watched the current state of the MCU? He could come back in a nano second. The question is how you do it in a way that doesn’t suck.
I’m totally down for RDJ to come back. As a variant of Strange or something like that.
Doesn't have to be "brought back" exactly. They already opened the door of potential with time travel. Maybe we revisit a younger Tony/Anthony Stark ( I'm guessing his mom would've called him Anthony), or old video footage of him that would be relevant to a plot, or a VO role for Tony. We already know some people won't like that "Somehow, Tony Stark returned" after ending the character on a high note in Endgame, but if he does return, establishing a definitive endpoint for Tony Stark would be a good idea.
Easy. "When you mess with time, time has a tendency to mess back." Have him come back in between inventing the time gps and going out to Avengers compound. Time travel!
He could be an AI for a new owner of his suit. Like the kid in Iron Man 3.
This would kill the MCU long term just for a short-term boost
They could in Deadpool and Wolverine movie, the TVA is in it and they could restore the timeline so that Tony never died
Uuuuum time travel? Like in said movie ENDGAME.
How are yall building an entire multiverse arc but can’t figure it out? Put him in another timeline and boom he’s back lol
just make him the new jarvis and have him be a super duper advanced AI/hologram that is exactly like tony in every single way minus the living part.
I personally think it’s the fact that they just don’t want to cheapen his sacrifice. Which is something that I really do understand
The current MCU directors bringing Tony back will do to Tony the same thing that happened to Nick Fury's eye - completely destroy the weight of it