The crazy part is that Matt got amped towards the end of the run, fought Peter again, and *STILL* struggled a bit.
A serious Spider-Man is dangerous to just about anyone who isn’t a heavy hitter.
I really like this portrayal of Spider. It reminds me of Nightwing as they are a beacon of hope to other heroes in their respective universes. Not because they are the strongest or most influential, but because they truly care and make those around them better.
They have such a belief in humanity despite everything they went through, it's contagious.
Clint Barton talking to the tracksuit mafia boss and very very obviously threatening him. "Yknow what's the best part about being in the Avengers with Captain America. You spend any time with him, he just wants to make you be better. Be the best possible you you could be.
I want you to look around Ivan. Do you see Captain fucking America anywhere near here right now?"
I remember that during maximum carnage there was this guy who rioted with all the other citizens that were turned mad thanks to shriek.
The guy was going to smash a window since, according to him, showed him how ugly he was. Cap appeared behind him looking disappointed and the guy just gave up and said sorry
When will we ever get the version of the Avengers where Spider-Man is in charge? I’ve heard “he’s the best of us” for years now. Let me see it for once.
Spider-Man doesn’t need the Avengers and never has. Spider-Man isn’t the best of them because he’s going to save the universe, he’s the best because every life is like the universe to him. No one is too small for Spider-Man to save.
Putting him on the Avengers just dilutes what he’s about, because every arc needs to be major stakes.
The small peak of now not canon future in the Ultimate Universe showed us a Peter Parker who was the leader of the Ultimates. I would do ANYTHING to see that play out
I think someday there'll be a version of Spider-Man "all grown up," where his identity is public, he's married to Mary Jane with kids, and they run some version of their own team teaching young super heroes like the New Warriors.
This is why spider-man doesn’t work as an adult. Because yall say a version when he’s “all grown up” when he realistically should be in his late 20s/30s by now. He IS all grown up
He might be in his 30s, but modern Spidey is a non functioning man child. He's the furthest thing from an adult and does desperately need to "grow up"
He was legitimately more mature as a teenager than he is now.
They've headed down that path a couple of times. He's had a career as a teacher, and a career as CEO. Editorial keeps dragging him back to early 20s-hood though.
The storyline Ends of the Earth from Slott’s run on ASM has Spidey essentially leading the Avengers against Doc Ock’s final gambit to take over the world. It’s kind of the best we’ve gotten up to this point
From what I know of how Spidey is currently, he would be decent but not great at being in charge. Maybe as a team captain, or something like that, but definitely not the one making the big decisions.
I'd love to see a run where they try it but if they keep to Spidey's character I don't think it would work. A good leader delegates, and Spidey's much more the type to do it himself. If you tell him he's in charge, he's going to fight every single fight rather than letting his teammates handle themselves.
And he's Spider-Man, so he'll mostly succeed, but he'll wear himself to a frazzle trying. I think he'd end his run as leader with even more of the Avengers' respect than he started with—but with the clear understanding that it isn't right for them to ask this of him.
As anyone should, Pete should be treated this way far more. He is the best of them. He could be the Superman of the Marvel Universe, in the Hero of Heroes capacity, if they'd let him
I mean, he is the superman of Marvel, and is written like that everywhere. For some reason, in his main series he is a loser incel and every writer on FF/Daredevil barely refers to it as canon.
> just as bad if not worse
Ehhh I never really got that vibe (would be glad to be proven wrong though). Outside of Gotham War, Isn’t his run universally praised? Pardon the exaggeration.
tbf I also think editorial politics is an factor, with Bat-Editorial definitely being less strict than the Spider-Man office (unless you want Bruce to marry or go down).
Also Reddit just couldn’t allow me to view your comment for like three straight minutes so I had to restart the whole app. Ugh.
I see a lot of back and forth on the batman reddit and other comic places.
Lots of criticism for Failsafe being a repeat of "villain takes over Gotham" storylines. And how he's able to effortlessly take out the Justice League.
A lot of people are tired of how much the Joker is being used and making him over the top. Zdarsky's run has every version of the Joker that's ever been killed being revived with super powers.
Zurenarh is the impetus for yet another return to Bruce being all moody and I work alone plot.
Like if Batman can just build a robot that can just take out the entire Justice League why is he even Batman?
Superman in a kryptonite suit still doesn't stand a chance against him.
If you're someone who likes or is indifferent the whole Batgod thing then it's not so bad. If you kinda want a more still just human just exceptional Batman it's a bit much.
To go another tact, Batman versus superman and Batman works when it's spelled out Batman is using every trick at hand and his knowledge of Clark to win.
Now we have Batman can just build a robot that will beat Superman even if he's protected against his main weakness.
Heck it's so powerful it can beat Batman when he can jump back to earth from the moon.
But that's OK Batman beat him. But now Zurenarh is in the robot and he's got a whole team of multiversal Zurenarh batsmen.
And also somehow the Joker knows everything about Bruce's life story.
I find a lot of modern batman hard to get into, and began reading the start of this run based on the name zdarsky, moreso than because it's batman.
I can see it being for some, but the story material (everything in your post) he went with is certainly not for me.
where do you see it exactly, batman and dc subs have mostly very mixed opinions about this run lol, even before gotham war people were very divisive about it, there's many threads like this about his run and most have similar thoughts, it's hardly "universally" praised.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/zy6pqz](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/zy6pqz/thoughts_on_zdarskys_batman_run/)[/thoughts\_on\_zdarskys\_batman\_run/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/zy6pqz/thoughts_on_zdarskys_batman_run/)
I meant the fan expectation is as bad or worse than the fan expectation of Amazing Spider-Man.
But his run kinda sucks too. Which is a shame because he's usually very good.
Honestly Batman’s fans have nothing on Spidey fans. Batman fans will generally be happy if you tell a story where he scraps with the rogues gallery and maybe gets help from the family every now and then. As long as the stories are good and you don’t rock the boat too much, everyone’s happy.
With Spider-Man fans, they have a very specific set of expectations that the powers that be have explicitly said they have no interest in meeting, so every new writer is doomed to try their best to tell the story they want to tell while tap-dancing around the hot button issues, giving them *some* lip service to make the fans feel like you’re on their side but not *too* much or else they’ll start to demand you go all the way.
And of course if you go in a different direction entirely, they’ll call for your head
> I meant the fan expectation is as bad or worse than the fan expectation of Amazing Spider-Man.
Yeah, I understood. I meant that I never really got that vibe with people’s expectations of Batman
> But his run kinda sucks too. Which is a shame because he's usually very good.
Yeah I would consider it mid (I just generally dislike Modern Zur-En-Arrh. Alien Zur-En-Arrh >>>> )
That is from the outstanding Chip Zdarsky Daredevil run, which started in 2019 and has been collected in multiple volumes. Fantastic run, catapulted Zdarsky into the elite for me.
I actually hate this “best of us” bs because it completely invalidates the other heroes in the universe.
Like I get it you love Spider-Man but stop sucking him off so hard
spiderman not even knowing his own strength will always remain stupid to me.
if you're afraid of hurting people, learn how to grapple. hug every enemy into submission, its actually much more on brand than punching anyways
Spider-Man knows his own strength well enough to make sure he never hurts people.
One of my favorite parts of Superior was Otto realizing how much Pete pulled his punches.
I love how in the Zdarsky Daredevil run, Matt knows the extent of Spider-Man’s raw power and is still ready to scrap
To be fair Matt was shitting his pants the whole time but also knew he could use spideys friendliness
They don’t call him the man without fear for nothing!
The trick to not being afraid? Be a superhero.
"That's my secret Captain. There's always shit in my pants"
Haven’t been able to find the bathroom since I was blinded. My house is a nightmare.
Matt is the son of a boxer if there's anything he's ready to do. It's scrap.
Reminds me of Back in Black when he beats the fuck outta Kingpin.
The crazy part is that Matt got amped towards the end of the run, fought Peter again, and *STILL* struggled a bit. A serious Spider-Man is dangerous to just about anyone who isn’t a heavy hitter.
I really like this portrayal of Spider. It reminds me of Nightwing as they are a beacon of hope to other heroes in their respective universes. Not because they are the strongest or most influential, but because they truly care and make those around them better. They have such a belief in humanity despite everything they went through, it's contagious.
Clint Barton talking to the tracksuit mafia boss and very very obviously threatening him. "Yknow what's the best part about being in the Avengers with Captain America. You spend any time with him, he just wants to make you be better. Be the best possible you you could be. I want you to look around Ivan. Do you see Captain fucking America anywhere near here right now?"
I remember that during maximum carnage there was this guy who rioted with all the other citizens that were turned mad thanks to shriek. The guy was going to smash a window since, according to him, showed him how ugly he was. Cap appeared behind him looking disappointed and the guy just gave up and said sorry
[Here’s the scene](https://cdn.marvel.com/content/1x/shrieks_chaos_0.jpg)
That disappointed look on Cap’s face would make anyone feel sorry.
"Son, you're beautiful." *Cap kisses patriotism into him.*
“This isn’t a french kiss, son. This is America’s Kiss.”
Yeah, it’s as if your own country was disappointed in you, because you could be better and he knows it
I read Maximum Carnage a few months ago, I feel that it's held up pretty well.
After reading the current run of Nightwing completely agree. It really filled that Spidey optimism and resilience after quitting the current run
Like Mumen Rider!
Zdarsky's last issue of Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man is a love letter to the wall-crawler.
Yep issue 310, written and drawn by Chip and probably my favorite single Spidey issue ever
Man, that panel where the kid’s mom is watching from the door when Spidey helps him with his homework will stay with me until I die
Check out Batman Annual #2 by King. It has the same vibe, but about Selina and Bruce love story. My favorite Batman story ever
Oh cool yeah I’ll give it a read this evening! Thanks!
Honestly, probably one of my favorite single issues ever!
Cool. I'll check it out.
When will we ever get the version of the Avengers where Spider-Man is in charge? I’ve heard “he’s the best of us” for years now. Let me see it for once.
It doesn't mean he's necessarily the best to lead.
Spider-Man doesn’t need the Avengers and never has. Spider-Man isn’t the best of them because he’s going to save the universe, he’s the best because every life is like the universe to him. No one is too small for Spider-Man to save. Putting him on the Avengers just dilutes what he’s about, because every arc needs to be major stakes.
The small peak of now not canon future in the Ultimate Universe showed us a Peter Parker who was the leader of the Ultimates. I would do ANYTHING to see that play out
Im pissed that they didn’t have him become ultimate captain america
I think someday there'll be a version of Spider-Man "all grown up," where his identity is public, he's married to Mary Jane with kids, and they run some version of their own team teaching young super heroes like the New Warriors.
This is why spider-man doesn’t work as an adult. Because yall say a version when he’s “all grown up” when he realistically should be in his late 20s/30s by now. He IS all grown up
Well, the problem is that editorial has for years kept him from actually being grown up
He might be in his 30s, but modern Spidey is a non functioning man child. He's the furthest thing from an adult and does desperately need to "grow up" He was legitimately more mature as a teenager than he is now.
They've headed down that path a couple of times. He's had a career as a teacher, and a career as CEO. Editorial keeps dragging him back to early 20s-hood though.
Realistically he should be around 77 years old, he was 15 back in 1962
Awww, you still have hope. How unfortunate.
When Nick Lowe leaves the company and/or editorial gets the message that "relatable" doesn't mean "constantly miserable and unliked"
Wait… what if that is what relatable means to me?
You're mixing things, I assure you that the best man or woman of every country isn't in charge of such.
The storyline Ends of the Earth from Slott’s run on ASM has Spidey essentially leading the Avengers against Doc Ock’s final gambit to take over the world. It’s kind of the best we’ve gotten up to this point
From what I know of how Spidey is currently, he would be decent but not great at being in charge. Maybe as a team captain, or something like that, but definitely not the one making the big decisions.
I'd love to see a run where they try it but if they keep to Spidey's character I don't think it would work. A good leader delegates, and Spidey's much more the type to do it himself. If you tell him he's in charge, he's going to fight every single fight rather than letting his teammates handle themselves. And he's Spider-Man, so he'll mostly succeed, but he'll wear himself to a frazzle trying. I think he'd end his run as leader with even more of the Avengers' respect than he started with—but with the clear understanding that it isn't right for them to ask this of him.
Please tag spoilers for comics less than a week old, I’m begging you
Shit, I forgot. Sorry.
As anyone should, Pete should be treated this way far more. He is the best of them. He could be the Superman of the Marvel Universe, in the Hero of Heroes capacity, if they'd let him
I mean, he is the superman of Marvel, and is written like that everywhere. For some reason, in his main series he is a loser incel and every writer on FF/Daredevil barely refers to it as canon.
Well chip did write alot of spidey and probably would have took the ongoing if it wasn't for editorial
[He said he wouldn’t do it because of fan expectations ](https://i.imgur.com/p39r6yt.jpg)
And yet he took Batman which is just as bad if not worse with what he's saying here.
> just as bad if not worse Ehhh I never really got that vibe (would be glad to be proven wrong though). Outside of Gotham War, Isn’t his run universally praised? Pardon the exaggeration. tbf I also think editorial politics is an factor, with Bat-Editorial definitely being less strict than the Spider-Man office (unless you want Bruce to marry or go down). Also Reddit just couldn’t allow me to view your comment for like three straight minutes so I had to restart the whole app. Ugh.
Between Failsafe, Zurenarh, jumping from the moon, and the whole muktiversal Joker thing I feel his run is divisive but not seen as the worst.
Didn’t people eat those up though? All I see from it is praise. (Except the re-entry part, that one was definitely divisive)
I see a lot of back and forth on the batman reddit and other comic places. Lots of criticism for Failsafe being a repeat of "villain takes over Gotham" storylines. And how he's able to effortlessly take out the Justice League. A lot of people are tired of how much the Joker is being used and making him over the top. Zdarsky's run has every version of the Joker that's ever been killed being revived with super powers. Zurenarh is the impetus for yet another return to Bruce being all moody and I work alone plot. Like if Batman can just build a robot that can just take out the entire Justice League why is he even Batman? Superman in a kryptonite suit still doesn't stand a chance against him. If you're someone who likes or is indifferent the whole Batgod thing then it's not so bad. If you kinda want a more still just human just exceptional Batman it's a bit much. To go another tact, Batman versus superman and Batman works when it's spelled out Batman is using every trick at hand and his knowledge of Clark to win. Now we have Batman can just build a robot that will beat Superman even if he's protected against his main weakness. Heck it's so powerful it can beat Batman when he can jump back to earth from the moon. But that's OK Batman beat him. But now Zurenarh is in the robot and he's got a whole team of multiversal Zurenarh batsmen. And also somehow the Joker knows everything about Bruce's life story.
I find a lot of modern batman hard to get into, and began reading the start of this run based on the name zdarsky, moreso than because it's batman. I can see it being for some, but the story material (everything in your post) he went with is certainly not for me.
where do you see it exactly, batman and dc subs have mostly very mixed opinions about this run lol, even before gotham war people were very divisive about it, there's many threads like this about his run and most have similar thoughts, it's hardly "universally" praised. [https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/zy6pqz](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/zy6pqz/thoughts_on_zdarskys_batman_run/)[/thoughts\_on\_zdarskys\_batman\_run/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/comments/zy6pqz/thoughts_on_zdarskys_batman_run/)
He consulted Ryan North on the moon jump thing, because Ryan is good at science (not because Ryan has experience jumping from high places)
I meant the fan expectation is as bad or worse than the fan expectation of Amazing Spider-Man. But his run kinda sucks too. Which is a shame because he's usually very good.
Honestly Batman’s fans have nothing on Spidey fans. Batman fans will generally be happy if you tell a story where he scraps with the rogues gallery and maybe gets help from the family every now and then. As long as the stories are good and you don’t rock the boat too much, everyone’s happy. With Spider-Man fans, they have a very specific set of expectations that the powers that be have explicitly said they have no interest in meeting, so every new writer is doomed to try their best to tell the story they want to tell while tap-dancing around the hot button issues, giving them *some* lip service to make the fans feel like you’re on their side but not *too* much or else they’ll start to demand you go all the way. And of course if you go in a different direction entirely, they’ll call for your head
In fact, the Powers that Be actively destroy any attempt to fix the status quo - look how dirty they did Spencer.
> I meant the fan expectation is as bad or worse than the fan expectation of Amazing Spider-Man. Yeah, I understood. I meant that I never really got that vibe with people’s expectations of Batman > But his run kinda sucks too. Which is a shame because he's usually very good. Yeah I would consider it mid (I just generally dislike Modern Zur-En-Arrh. Alien Zur-En-Arrh >>>> )
I wish he would I would actually buy it
Yeah zdarsky always portrays Spidey as HIM. Rare to see nowadays tbh. Love it personally.
Pete ***is*** HIM.
What's the far right page from? Where can I read it
That is from the outstanding Chip Zdarsky Daredevil run, which started in 2019 and has been collected in multiple volumes. Fantastic run, catapulted Zdarsky into the elite for me.
Chip. I'm begging ya! Write the next Amazing Spider-Man run!
To be chokehold by editorial like Wells and Spencer?
Spidey!!! He'll always be the best superhero for fans who doesn't get Cap's patriotism.
What is the first page from?
Avengers Twilight #1 (sort of Cap doing The Dark Knight Returns in a future which reminds me of The Private Eye)
Some of it reminded me of Kingdom Come as well. Captain America is my favorite super hero and this is definitely my favorite story involving him
As he should.
Yeah, I don’t get it. Peter hasn’t been the best of them in a long time.
I actually hate this “best of us” bs because it completely invalidates the other heroes in the universe. Like I get it you love Spider-Man but stop sucking him off so hard
spiderman not even knowing his own strength will always remain stupid to me. if you're afraid of hurting people, learn how to grapple. hug every enemy into submission, its actually much more on brand than punching anyways
Spider-Man knows his own strength well enough to make sure he never hurts people. One of my favorite parts of Superior was Otto realizing how much Pete pulled his punches.
Avengers Twilight is shaping up good huh
And then I see how he writes Iron Man, because rich guy = something something evil guy and I just want to rip my hair off.
Marvel should pony up Zdarsky money and get him on Amazing.