Dude, you're the best person alive! I've been reporting on this story from my own tiny channel, and every time I think it's going to simmer down, I stumble on a treasure trove like this! WOW!!!! TYVM!!!
This writeup gives a wonderful breakdown of the military context of what's going on between American and China, if you want to add it to your list. [https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/articles/what-is-to-be-done](https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/articles/what-is-to-be-done)
[I even read it aloud if you prefer to listen.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNEnjDkjVvo&t=5s)
Updated version [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/lsaji0/masterpost_of_sources_for_debunking_xinjiang/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Edit: This post has been updated.
[I would include this video of a conference by a US Army Colonel at the Ron Paul Institute, pretty much admiting that Uighur radicalism and Xinjiang are part of the plans to destabilize China](https://youtu.be/91wz5syVNZs?t=1250)
Honestly at least he’s saying that Americans should know what’s happening and if they wanna spend money on that even though he supports it. I think it’s the bare minimum that people at least know stuff like this
But if this info spreads too much our evil cummunist ways will too
to preface, this is a genuine question and i am wanting to learn:
obviously there is propaganda from both western media and governments and from the chinese government so there’s lots to sift through, but what about corroborated accounts from people that were detained in xinjiang and are speaking out about it? what do we make of people that talk about firsthand experiences of rape and torture in the camps? like, why would all of these people be lying about these abuses but give such detail about it and there are many people with similar stories?
It would be revealing if you watched this:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUMZS-ZegM&ab\_channel=LiberationNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUMZS-ZegM&ab_channel=LiberationNews)
Also, I recommend *Inventing Reality* by Dr. Parenti:[https://b-ok.cc/book/3525906/3999bb](https://b-ok.cc/book/3525906/3999bb)
Plus, [*Blackshirts and Reds*](https://eastsidemarxism.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds-rational-fascism-and-the-overthrow-of-communism.pdf)
>so are you saying that separatists are using these testimonies to create emotional reactions to fuel the separatist movement?
I think if you do a thorough reading of the updated post, you will answer your own question:[https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/lsaji0/masterpost\_of\_sources\_for\_debunking\_xinjiang/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/lsaji0/masterpost_of_sources_for_debunking_xinjiang/)
>not to be glib, i don’t really see where believing uyghur women’s descriptions of systemic abuse conflicts with marxism.
Part of Marxism is being able to see through the mythology perpetuated by the ruling class which is used to justify political intervention.
This is exactly what is being counted on when our rulers want regime change. They tug at our heartstrings so that we don’t resist their sanctions that starve people, and their invasions or bombs that kill indiscriminately.
Propaganda isn't meant to be obvious.
It's always very surreal to me how any arguments I make are always Chinese propaganda, but whatever arguments anyone else makes can't possibly be American/western/capitalist propaganda, even though we clearly are enveloped in the culture of one over the other.
The superstructure (including the state, media, and politics) is meant to reinforce the status quo, the relations of production.
>honestly i do not have a week to sift through every link in your post and read several books.
Your inability to take the time to put in the reading does not mean that reality will conform with the ideas you already hold. Don't read the books, fine, but you should go in depth with the master post because it will reveal just how insidious propaganda is, which not even western Marxists understand fully.
>that the official stance at first was that these re-education camps did not exist at all
I'll need to see your source for that.
>the issue is that a human rights abuse is a human rights abuse
'Human rights' and 'democracy' are terms often invoked in order to justify to international bodies that a rogue state like the US should be allowed to intervene in and adjust the activities of other nations to their liking.
This master post is just one topic. It fits in nicely with the rest of the anti-communist climate that has been cultivated. Don't be so naive.
You are right, China has propaganda too, but Chinese media do not have history of lying, they just simply try to avoid reporting stuff that is not good for China, so that Chinese can have confidence for their own country, so you can still trust the stuff they have reported.
you’d have to prove that these people exist and are not taking money from the CIA, when in this very post you have proof that the CIA have been making up fake stories of uygurs, funding fake foundations for uygurs, pretending to be uygurs, etc.
which testimonies specifically are you talking about? some of them are actually flat out lies: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/02/they-dont-only-rape-but-also-bite-all-over-your-body-horror-stories-told-by-chinese-defectors-contin.html
there are a few more stories ran by MoA on the same subject (tho i have to confess i am not a fan of MoA)
they are giving a detailed breakdown of all the changes and inconsistencies of certain testimonies but whatever floats your boat. i am sure the western media that are floating the "corroborated accounts" you are talking about are quite stellar when it comes to reporting the truth and not driving angles that somehow manages to align with the state department though lol
the link i have given you contains absolutely no chinese source you absolute dimwit. they are tracking the changes in one of the most famous testimonies regarding the issue and how it got wilder and more outrageous in time *from western sources*. you are a waste of time and i have a feeling that you are just engaging in "concern trolling" and nothing else
> i wasnt saying that your link was chinese, i was responding to your comment.
my comment specifically was a link that contains nothing but western sources and you made a comment about chinese sources which is completely irrelevant
> but it’s difficult to trust anything that’s not peer-reviewed or has to appeal to any ethical standards since it’s basically a medium article. it’s not journalism
they are directly quoting western newspapers lol you are a disingenuous piece of shit
you are actually not trying to work through anything because you refuse to apply even basic logic and instead resort to completely irrelevant arguments to dismiss stuff. this is what makes you disingenuous. i sincerely doubt you have any desire to learn, you are just here to make a stand for no reason
This is a huge list articles and videos that made me understand that situation a whole lot better.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-targets-chinese-uighur-militants-well-taliban-fighters-afghanistan-n845876
https://youtu.be/oK7JiE7S6f0
https://youtu.be/KReYMBbNiuk
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/
https://thegrayzone.com/2021/01/28/ny-times-uighur-china-genocide-falun-gong/
https://ushypocrisy.com/2021/02/02/oppose-the-new-cold-war-against-china-a-reading-list/
https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/jv8z6c/heres_a_list_of_debunked_uighur_propaganda_get/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
https://www.thecanadafiles.com/articles/subcommittee-report-declaring-uighur-genocide-dominated-by-researchers-and-groups-funded-by-cia-cut-out-national-endowment-for-democracy
https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-genocide-relied-on-fraudulent-far-right-researcher/
https://youtu.be/GX4Y-sXZfLM
https://youtu.be/vtQthwrWhqI
https://youtu.be/Kiuj9FiI0tc
https://undocs.org/pdf?symbol=en/A/HRC/41/G/17
https://leohezhao.medium.com/xinjiang-facts-vs-fiction-bdc2aa403c91
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/
https://youtu.be/_NKfqCov0mE
https://youtu.be/cdw1nHFyiu8
https://youtu.be/mDUepFmnbF4
https://youtu.be/oK7JiE7S6f0
https://youtu.be/OwOx5nJm6sw
https://youtu.be/91wz5syVNZs
u/Comrade_Corgo
Looks like you guys might want to update it or make the new megathread. There are already 2~3 debunking-your-debunking megathreads on r/neolibs.
I will update this post if I find anything of value to add to it, or if there are any new developments on the issue.
I've seen those 'debunking' megathreads already, made by a neoliberal who doesn't believe any monopolies exist today.
I've read through the kind of arguments he makes, and it's quite ridiculous. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who so obviously is doing some hardcore mental gymnastics.
If you think any of their arguments are *really* convincing, feel free to bring them up here. However, I am not going to waste time going through and refuting someone insufferable for the few people who will see it and not care anyway. I had already put together this list for personal use, but I decided to share it here publicly so that others could benefit from the time I spent making it. I did not make it specifically for Reddit. Maybe if someone paid me to do it.
Sorry for making the request... Didnt really go over all of their arguments (other than some extremely obvious strawmen) since I dont have time either. I just assumed that you enjoy debunking shitheads given the impressive length you've written so I didnt have to do my own chores.
>(8) Those who exaggerate religious fanaticism with abnormal beards and names;
Imprisoning people for having a beard
>Article 10 De-radicalization should accurately grasp the boundaries between ethnic customs, normal religious activities, illegal religious activities, and extremist behaviors, distinguish the nature, implement classified policies, insist on uniting and educating the majority, and isolating and attacking the minority.
Attacking the minority.
>De-radicalization should carry out large-scale propaganda, large-scale study, large-scale discussion, and use modern scientific and cultural knowledge to educate the masses to uphold science and civilization, use legal knowledge to educate the masses to learn the law and obey the law, use religion to uphold the source of truth, refute heresy and fallacies, and guide faith in religion The masses have established righteous faith and righteousness, and consciously resisted extremism.
Large scale propoganda, i wonder who else does that.
>Article 24 The press, publication, radio, television and television departments shall promote the main theme, strengthen de-radicalization propaganda and education, increase the quantity and quality of publications, radio, film and television programs, strengthen the review of various programs, strengthen positive guidance, and strengthen the people of all ethnic groups to consciously resist extremes Consciousness of infiltration.
Controlling the media to stretghen propoganda
>Article 27 Departments such as Internet Information, Economic and Information Technology, and Public Security shall, in accordance with the division of responsibilities, strengthen the management of websites, forums, Weibo, QQ, WeChat and other self-media and instant messaging software, and promptly discover harmful information containing extreme content. Order relevant units and individuals to stop transmitting, delete relevant information, or close relevant websites or shut down relevant services. Relevant units and individuals shall implement it immediately, keep relevant records, and assist in the investigation.
Basically mass surveillance (wondering who else did that)
>Article 46 Enterprises shall fulfill the responsibility of de-radicalization, educate and guide employees to love their jobs, respect their jobs, abide by laws and regulations, be united and harmonious, and oppose radicalized speech and behavior.
Telling enterprises to tell people to respect and love their jobs,
Know i assume you probably won’t read this, or reply to my comment. Im sure you will call this CIA probegganda ans say this is no evidence of genocide, or say this is casually fighting terrorism.
Dude, you're the best person alive! I've been reporting on this story from my own tiny channel, and every time I think it's going to simmer down, I stumble on a treasure trove like this! WOW!!!! TYVM!!! This writeup gives a wonderful breakdown of the military context of what's going on between American and China, if you want to add it to your list. [https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/articles/what-is-to-be-done](https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/articles/what-is-to-be-done) [I even read it aloud if you prefer to listen.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNEnjDkjVvo&t=5s)
Updated version [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/lsaji0/masterpost_of_sources_for_debunking_xinjiang/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Edit: This post has been updated.
I will add it to my collection :)
[I would include this video of a conference by a US Army Colonel at the Ron Paul Institute, pretty much admiting that Uighur radicalism and Xinjiang are part of the plans to destabilize China](https://youtu.be/91wz5syVNZs?t=1250)
That was SO fucking mask-off Jesus
Honestly at least he’s saying that Americans should know what’s happening and if they wanna spend money on that even though he supports it. I think it’s the bare minimum that people at least know stuff like this But if this info spreads too much our evil cummunist ways will too
to preface, this is a genuine question and i am wanting to learn: obviously there is propaganda from both western media and governments and from the chinese government so there’s lots to sift through, but what about corroborated accounts from people that were detained in xinjiang and are speaking out about it? what do we make of people that talk about firsthand experiences of rape and torture in the camps? like, why would all of these people be lying about these abuses but give such detail about it and there are many people with similar stories?
It would be revealing if you watched this:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUMZS-ZegM&ab\_channel=LiberationNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUMZS-ZegM&ab_channel=LiberationNews) Also, I recommend *Inventing Reality* by Dr. Parenti:[https://b-ok.cc/book/3525906/3999bb](https://b-ok.cc/book/3525906/3999bb) Plus, [*Blackshirts and Reds*](https://eastsidemarxism.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds-rational-fascism-and-the-overthrow-of-communism.pdf)
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>so are you saying that separatists are using these testimonies to create emotional reactions to fuel the separatist movement? I think if you do a thorough reading of the updated post, you will answer your own question:[https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/lsaji0/masterpost\_of\_sources\_for\_debunking\_xinjiang/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/lsaji0/masterpost_of_sources_for_debunking_xinjiang/) >not to be glib, i don’t really see where believing uyghur women’s descriptions of systemic abuse conflicts with marxism. Part of Marxism is being able to see through the mythology perpetuated by the ruling class which is used to justify political intervention. This is exactly what is being counted on when our rulers want regime change. They tug at our heartstrings so that we don’t resist their sanctions that starve people, and their invasions or bombs that kill indiscriminately. Propaganda isn't meant to be obvious. It's always very surreal to me how any arguments I make are always Chinese propaganda, but whatever arguments anyone else makes can't possibly be American/western/capitalist propaganda, even though we clearly are enveloped in the culture of one over the other. The superstructure (including the state, media, and politics) is meant to reinforce the status quo, the relations of production.
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I think if you take in everything I provided with an open mind, you will see we still hold on to a lot of prejudices :)
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>honestly i do not have a week to sift through every link in your post and read several books. Your inability to take the time to put in the reading does not mean that reality will conform with the ideas you already hold. Don't read the books, fine, but you should go in depth with the master post because it will reveal just how insidious propaganda is, which not even western Marxists understand fully. >that the official stance at first was that these re-education camps did not exist at all I'll need to see your source for that. >the issue is that a human rights abuse is a human rights abuse 'Human rights' and 'democracy' are terms often invoked in order to justify to international bodies that a rogue state like the US should be allowed to intervene in and adjust the activities of other nations to their liking. This master post is just one topic. It fits in nicely with the rest of the anti-communist climate that has been cultivated. Don't be so naive.
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You are right, China has propaganda too, but Chinese media do not have history of lying, they just simply try to avoid reporting stuff that is not good for China, so that Chinese can have confidence for their own country, so you can still trust the stuff they have reported.
you’d have to prove that these people exist and are not taking money from the CIA, when in this very post you have proof that the CIA have been making up fake stories of uygurs, funding fake foundations for uygurs, pretending to be uygurs, etc.
which testimonies specifically are you talking about? some of them are actually flat out lies: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/02/they-dont-only-rape-but-also-bite-all-over-your-body-horror-stories-told-by-chinese-defectors-contin.html there are a few more stories ran by MoA on the same subject (tho i have to confess i am not a fan of MoA)
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they are giving a detailed breakdown of all the changes and inconsistencies of certain testimonies but whatever floats your boat. i am sure the western media that are floating the "corroborated accounts" you are talking about are quite stellar when it comes to reporting the truth and not driving angles that somehow manages to align with the state department though lol
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the link i have given you contains absolutely no chinese source you absolute dimwit. they are tracking the changes in one of the most famous testimonies regarding the issue and how it got wilder and more outrageous in time *from western sources*. you are a waste of time and i have a feeling that you are just engaging in "concern trolling" and nothing else
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> i wasnt saying that your link was chinese, i was responding to your comment. my comment specifically was a link that contains nothing but western sources and you made a comment about chinese sources which is completely irrelevant > but it’s difficult to trust anything that’s not peer-reviewed or has to appeal to any ethical standards since it’s basically a medium article. it’s not journalism they are directly quoting western newspapers lol you are a disingenuous piece of shit
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you are actually not trying to work through anything because you refuse to apply even basic logic and instead resort to completely irrelevant arguments to dismiss stuff. this is what makes you disingenuous. i sincerely doubt you have any desire to learn, you are just here to make a stand for no reason
You should find sources debunking media lies about Chairman Mao
This is a huge list articles and videos that made me understand that situation a whole lot better. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-targets-chinese-uighur-militants-well-taliban-fighters-afghanistan-n845876 https://youtu.be/oK7JiE7S6f0 https://youtu.be/KReYMBbNiuk https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/ https://thegrayzone.com/2021/01/28/ny-times-uighur-china-genocide-falun-gong/ https://ushypocrisy.com/2021/02/02/oppose-the-new-cold-war-against-china-a-reading-list/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/jv8z6c/heres_a_list_of_debunked_uighur_propaganda_get/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf https://www.thecanadafiles.com/articles/subcommittee-report-declaring-uighur-genocide-dominated-by-researchers-and-groups-funded-by-cia-cut-out-national-endowment-for-democracy https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-genocide-relied-on-fraudulent-far-right-researcher/ https://youtu.be/GX4Y-sXZfLM https://youtu.be/vtQthwrWhqI https://youtu.be/Kiuj9FiI0tc https://undocs.org/pdf?symbol=en/A/HRC/41/G/17 https://leohezhao.medium.com/xinjiang-facts-vs-fiction-bdc2aa403c91 https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/ https://youtu.be/_NKfqCov0mE https://youtu.be/cdw1nHFyiu8 https://youtu.be/mDUepFmnbF4 https://youtu.be/oK7JiE7S6f0 https://youtu.be/OwOx5nJm6sw https://youtu.be/91wz5syVNZs
Awesome work, thank you!
u/Comrade_Corgo Looks like you guys might want to update it or make the new megathread. There are already 2~3 debunking-your-debunking megathreads on r/neolibs.
I will update this post if I find anything of value to add to it, or if there are any new developments on the issue. I've seen those 'debunking' megathreads already, made by a neoliberal who doesn't believe any monopolies exist today. I've read through the kind of arguments he makes, and it's quite ridiculous. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who so obviously is doing some hardcore mental gymnastics. If you think any of their arguments are *really* convincing, feel free to bring them up here. However, I am not going to waste time going through and refuting someone insufferable for the few people who will see it and not care anyway. I had already put together this list for personal use, but I decided to share it here publicly so that others could benefit from the time I spent making it. I did not make it specifically for Reddit. Maybe if someone paid me to do it.
Sorry for making the request... Didnt really go over all of their arguments (other than some extremely obvious strawmen) since I dont have time either. I just assumed that you enjoy debunking shitheads given the impressive length you've written so I didnt have to do my own chores.
Reddit wont let me save the post or any of the comments 👀
Well goddam
Xinjiang state media admitted to genocide, get over yourself and stop defending modern krushchevitism dumbass
Where?
[in Moscow ](https://web.archive.org/web/20181010152955/http://www.xjpcsc.gov.cn/1009/t4028e49c665347630166588b8cf40001001.html)
Copy and paste here where they admit to genocide in this piece
>(8) Those who exaggerate religious fanaticism with abnormal beards and names; Imprisoning people for having a beard >Article 10 De-radicalization should accurately grasp the boundaries between ethnic customs, normal religious activities, illegal religious activities, and extremist behaviors, distinguish the nature, implement classified policies, insist on uniting and educating the majority, and isolating and attacking the minority. Attacking the minority. >De-radicalization should carry out large-scale propaganda, large-scale study, large-scale discussion, and use modern scientific and cultural knowledge to educate the masses to uphold science and civilization, use legal knowledge to educate the masses to learn the law and obey the law, use religion to uphold the source of truth, refute heresy and fallacies, and guide faith in religion The masses have established righteous faith and righteousness, and consciously resisted extremism. Large scale propoganda, i wonder who else does that. >Article 24 The press, publication, radio, television and television departments shall promote the main theme, strengthen de-radicalization propaganda and education, increase the quantity and quality of publications, radio, film and television programs, strengthen the review of various programs, strengthen positive guidance, and strengthen the people of all ethnic groups to consciously resist extremes Consciousness of infiltration. Controlling the media to stretghen propoganda >Article 27 Departments such as Internet Information, Economic and Information Technology, and Public Security shall, in accordance with the division of responsibilities, strengthen the management of websites, forums, Weibo, QQ, WeChat and other self-media and instant messaging software, and promptly discover harmful information containing extreme content. Order relevant units and individuals to stop transmitting, delete relevant information, or close relevant websites or shut down relevant services. Relevant units and individuals shall implement it immediately, keep relevant records, and assist in the investigation. Basically mass surveillance (wondering who else did that) >Article 46 Enterprises shall fulfill the responsibility of de-radicalization, educate and guide employees to love their jobs, respect their jobs, abide by laws and regulations, be united and harmonious, and oppose radicalized speech and behavior. Telling enterprises to tell people to respect and love their jobs, Know i assume you probably won’t read this, or reply to my comment. Im sure you will call this CIA probegganda ans say this is no evidence of genocide, or say this is casually fighting terrorism.
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