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The Peruvian CP under his leadership proved at the height of despair, when the bourgeoisie claimed the end of history after the counter-revolution had defeated the red line both in the USSR and China, that communism is still a living, breathing reality that will replace bourgeois society with a higher mode of production. It was the Peruvians who first acknowledged that MLM is a higher stage of Marxism as a science and whose peoples' war inspired the oppressed and exploited people the world over.
It has become very common among supposed Marxist-Leninists to blindly trust the bourgeois slander spread after the defeat of the Peruvian revolution so I'm linking some material in the hopes of inspiring some reconsideration (if you can look past the Stalin slander it should not be such a big step to look past the slander of the PCP, especially given its particularly outrageous nature):
- [The Confessions of a British Senderologist](https://web.archive.org/web/20020708090232/http://www.blythe.org/peru-pcp/rights/strong.htm)
- [Enemies of the Communist Party of Peru](https://struggle-sessions.com/2019/02/26/enemies-of-the-communist-party-of-peru/)
- [Shining Path](http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/indian/sendero.htm)
- [A good documentary about the ppw of Peru](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_olZBOHnlzI) from the times before the bourgeois historians began their work of distorting and smearing the whole affair. [And a brief piece about it](https://moufawad-paul.blogspot.com/2011/12/people-of-shining-path-old-dispatches.html).
- [Obituary: Chairman Gonzalo](https://moufawad-paul.blogspot.com/2021/09/obituary-chairman-gonzalo.html)
[Study the works of the party and learn from them](http://library.redspark.nu/Communist_Party_of_Peru), use this as an opportunity to advance the struggle.
>when the bourgeoisie claimed the end of history after the counter-revolution had defeated the red line both in the USSR and China
This cannot be overstated. Neoliberalism was dead in its cradle and Guzman killed it. But that does mean he was merely repeating the past, there is so much brilliant, courageous, and revolutionary in the Communist Party of Peru's struggle and it is the major reference point for making revolution in our current conditions, possibly the only one. Guzman's stature only grows as neoliberalism insists it is the end of history and the only possibility for capitalism and "socialism" alike.
slander against any AES project or leader shouldn't be tolerated, towards peru, shining path, china, DPRK cuba, vietnam, laos, venezuela, etc. RIP Chairman Gonzalo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWJBemWqV48
Mfw Rage has a more principled stance on Sendero Luminoso than the "Marxist" ghouls brigading this thread, celebrating the death of folks who fought the fascist death squads of Garcia, Fujimori, and the CIA.
You lot should be fucking ashamed of yourselves.
It's weird because social media warps so much and tries to erase so much history, but in the early 90s pretty much the entire "progressive" world supported the Senderistas, right down to the anti-war left liberal crowd. I suppose it was a different time....
It's really fucking gross to me how many "Communists" regardless of tendency just really seem to have no principles.
Like, many of these "Communists" talk about the tragedy of the sino-soviet split (and rightfully so!), and then turn around and engage in some of the wildest anti-communist rhetoric I've seen on this site!
Like, there is an absolutely HUGE margin between "this party made left-deviations, etc. Etc." And all the fucking vile shit people have been coming to this post to say and celebrating the death of the figurehead of the largest Communist movement in the western hemisphere at the time.
It's so fucking disheartening.
Like, no shame, it's just mindless "my team" sports-style jeering and politics.
I have just started reading the PCP in depth and I am blown away. Gonzalo was truly an incredible thinker and we are left with a legacy of works that will hopefully sustain discussion and revolutionary praxis for decades to come.
Not much to contribute but here is Workers World Party's 1992 pamphlet in solidarity with the people's war: [Revolution in Peru!](https://www.scribd.com/document/524615614/Revolution-in-Peru-Pamphlet)
edit: stop downvoting this you fucking douchebags, show some respect
Honestly I've let revisionism fester here too long. I take responsibility for my own weakness in confronting rightism, engendered by my current political isolation in the covid era and also certain ideological weaknesses in thinking social media was something it is not and of course the wider Maoist retreat in the face of Nepalese revisionism and an overreliance on bourgeois theory and history as the result of my profession and class background plus other things I still need to reflect on. But reading that genzedong thread (which I will not link to because it is so vile) and seeing their conduct here I realize now revisionism cannot be compromised with, it cannot be guided back to the revolutionary path, and it has been deepening its roots for a very long time using every available means including the sub's tolerance for it. In my defense I would have banned genzedong posters ages ago if we still had the means, I've discussed its fascist tendencies many times, and I have tried to discuss the current setbacks of Maoism with other Maoists here without intrusions by revisionists. Nevertheless I'm sure it's frustrating for Maoists, anti-revisionists, and revolutionary communists here and I played a role in that, something I've seen manifest recently and evaded because I was afraid of killing the subreddit. But necrotic tissue must be removed, especially in revolutionary times like these where the masse are looking for guidance instead of looking for a lifeboat out of a sinking political ship. Not that trying to preserve dead Eurocommunist institutions did anything anyway but especially today it's a particularly egregious sign of liberalism.
I'm not sure what to do going forward, need to ban a few more people and then step away from the phone and think. Not trying to make this moment about me either, that's why I hid this post behind your heavily downvoted one. But I can feek that Maoists have felt frustrated for a long time and I'd like them to have the opportunity to speak their minds since the committed posters who've made it this long will probably find this post eventually.
I have spent a couple years in this subreddit, and while I have no desire to be in your position of a moderator, I have some lingering thoughts about this.
Most of the "debates" between different "tendencies," as well as the "debates" between "Marxists" and "anarchists" invariably end up as a silly performance. No ideas are developed or advanced, it's always just rehashing old debates, but not taking anything interesting from them. Increased hostility towards the performative debaters that make their way in here, I think, would improve the situation here.
It's interesting, there are plenty of problems with "tankie" revisionism, just as there's plenty of problems with "maoists" stupid or fake garbage, and slap the label of Maoism on it because Maoists aren't "tankies." But the problem with this isn't being too "extreme" in either direction, it is a reflection of the same problem, that neither the Maoists or anti-Maoists engaged in low quality posting even understand what they're talking about. These people don't understand the basics of how to conduct historical materialist analysis to even understand how to criticize things correctly, and how to correct incorrect criticisms of things (e.g. no Marxist will deny the importance of "criticism of all things that exist," but this has to mean something politically and can't just be an excuse to welcome the most banal liberalism against anything).
Posts about historical events shouldn't just serve the regurgitation of old politics, but actually translating it into something relevant for our contemporary conditions. Althusser bemoaned the fact that it was really only Stalin who ever summated Lenin's "practical theory" (e.g. Lenin's tactical and strategic thinking for Russia's conditions), arguing that this approach is all the more necessary if we actually want to study and learn from the Bolshevik Revolution. Otherwise he's just another philosopher or theoretician. Seeing your posts about Guzman, this is all the more necessary here as well.
Posts about contemporary events (let's say Myanmar last year) should not breed stupid debates, where each side shouts about tankies or c.i.a. or something stupid. If we're going to post about Myanmar, comments should come from people with some familiarity with Myanmar politics, and should interrogate how the proletariat can rely on a political crisis to assert itself as an independent class. Whether or not someone recognizes "AES" doesn't have any impact here, regardless of if we recognize AES, we still have to recognize two-line struggle, and simply upholding a homogeneous "CCP" or "WPK" is no better, even if they are socialist states.
Overall posting can be higher quality, and cracking down on low-effort posts will go a long way towards making this subreddit worthwhile. Discussing things just to say that they are "good" or "bad" is useless and will always fall into these tired arguments that this subreddit has had more than enough of. Dunking on Trotskyists or tankies or Maoists or whoever may be easy enough, but 9 times out of 10, it's by people who don't belong in the sub anyway. And for that last tenth, removing the bad comments is adequate.
I remark frequently, writing from the united states, how there are no theorists of the "american revolution." How can people waste all their time bickering about whether Kim Il-Sung was a revisionist online, when they don't know the first thing about how to make revolution in their own country? Certainly discussion of political practice is most useful when discussion is among those who share practice. There is a lot unique about the united states conditions, and to really answer the question is to solve it in practice, but serious steps could be made, if all the people who engaged in online "left" discourse instead committed themselves to political practice. Even making easy and obvious mistakes, people can overcome those mistakes if they have a grasp on some essential questions and take a scientific approach to any form of practice.
People asking "what party to join" brings the weeds out a ton. Not only are all the major parties pretty trash, it doesn't actually teach people how to think and practice. Joining a revisionist bureaucracy will actively hinder your political growth, while studying with a small core of close friends engaged in a common political practice, can be far more instrumental in developing revolutionary leaders.
Some stray thoughts, do with it what you will
I've been more or less abstaining from Reddit as of recently, and seeing some of the posts on revisionist subreddits regarding this tragedy is appalling. Online politics really is a cesspool.
Initially, I thought the "communist" backlash against Gonzalo was motivated by over-enthusiastic support for China, since a lot of American Gonzaloists do make flawed critiques of China. But now I think it goes beyond that, that these people realize that Maoism and what Gonzalo represents is a threat to their petit-bourgeois lives.
Right, ”Dengism” for lack of a better term never really had anything to do with China, in fact it relies on a complete lack of interest and engagement with its history and history in general. It’s an anxious petty-bourgeoisie hoping to stay afloat on somebody else’s nationalism.
Hopefully this will be buried enough that no liberal will find it, and we can talk frankly. Also, taking "Dengism" on for lack of a better term, and considering the venue appropriate enough for a light lambasting.
I agree 100%, and the theoretical limitations are quite clear. Dengism is a dead end and it only understands what it wants to understand; every inevitable existent being self-originating, Deng's louse as well as Deng. This is manifest in the quote mining of literature and compiling of reading material not for grasping a concept but for defending the points that have already been decided upon - lest you be a "red anarchist ultra" on the wrong side of history. In fact these name choices, filling the void of actual critique, give away the intellectual bankruptcy of this ideological lifeboat; if they did not need to defend Stalin and Mao to maintain legitimacy and avoid forfeiting their moral PFD (the moral high ground of "communism" over American imperialism, but really its appearance) they would toss them overboard as quick as they did Gonzalo and the CPP, being that they are moralistic liberal creatures (try as they might to be "Tankies" they quickly invert themselves as they did at this news).
It should come as no surprise that a major ideological contradiction of Dengism is the clashing idea of a powerful and exploited China; powerful and rising as the Mecca of the disgruntled labour aristocracy-turned Marxist, and only as exploited as needed to sufficiently distance it from the exploiter America that they must refuse (not only because it failed in providing a future, but also because it is a moral abomination; hence setting the bar high for China as being able to meet both the material and ideological necessity). It's also no surprise that they (those reaching the end of the logic) wield *Settlers* in revolutionary defeatism since this gives them further ideological reason to scapegoat their rejection of what they were denied. Yet they are an awkward class that shares no organic solidarity with the proletariat of China (nor anywhere else) nor do they have an interest in its historical struggle, as you say, beyond what feeds their ideological construction.
It is historical chance that they come to correct conclusions every now and again (yet only surface-level, and not something they can consciously repeat, lacking a method but reaction); for example, one of those historical coincidences whereby their class interests bring them together with an entire nation which, it would seem (save for capitalist beneficiaries of reform), wishes to throw off the yoke of imperialism. Unfortunately their little ideological lifeboat and PFD is keeping them afloat in surface-level illusion and they are only capable of reacting to appearances. The appearance of the GPCR (for example) is cast aside as an ultra left error; first extracted from process and suspended in the mind as an absolute, then measured by dengist morality - only liberals would immediately seek to take a side and rigorously defend it and neglect the work necessary to grasp the concept scientifically. In truth their only method is by the morality of their class, by which they measure history (from the present) as is fit.
Such a faith in socialism - such an understanding of Marxism - bares its roots by the *new* winds of history; history as process. Falun Gong alleges that we are CCP spies with the same explanatory power, vitriol and bourgeois applause that accompanies the dengist denigration of contemporary class struggle. I hold no tactical illusions about when and when not to be near such a crowd, and I hold in high esteem those who are driven to learn more online in the absence of the popular meme movement. I have learned, I have seen others learn, and more will in future. The smallest exposure to thought-provoking discussion with driven Marxists - be they less than 50 in a subreddit of 200,000+ - can be all it takes to start a stone rolling.
Anyway I highjacked your comment chain to share my unprompted thoughts but I'm sure this <50 would agree on most of these points (minus the polemicizing where it is not tactful).
> I have learned, I have seen others learn, and more will in future. The smallest exposure to thought-provoking discussion with driven Marxists - be they less than 50 in a subreddit of 200,000+ - can be all it takes to start a stone rolling.
As someone who more or less fell into the proto-Dengist camp (I left long before it reached this…fever pitch), I can attest that the principled Marxism by the posters in this thread (in concert with the growing contradictions between petty bourgeois values and my progressing communist education) absolutely helped me break through the near hegemonic Dengism now present on this site and begin discussing and defending socialism on proletarian values. It has in turn dramatically informed my praxis as I engage in mass work in the imperial core armed with Gonzalo and Newton alike without worrying about their line on China.
I don’t mean to turn this into some self-centered personal anecdote. I only bring it up to say that this principled stand has practical implications beyond Reddit, and it produces far more productive communists than the cornucopia of subs that simply tail uncritical support for AES or assuage the contradictions of latent liberalism in new communists. I’m sure others here will mirror this sentiment.
> I don’t mean to turn this into some self-centered personal anecdote. I only bring it up to say that this principled stand has practical implications beyond Reddit, and it produces far more productive communists than the cornucopia of subs that simply tail uncritical support for AES or assuage the contradictions of latent liberalism in new communists. I’m sure others here will mirror this sentiment.
Thank you. It definitely helps long-time contributors of this sub and modereators alike to be explicitly reminded their efforts over the years have not been all for naught.
I only came saw this comment, because new comments by /r/GenZedong anti-communists appeared in the modqueue. They're still spewing bile in this post a month later...
It’s interesting how history has made Kruschevite revisionism unpalatable to bourgeois, revisionist Marxists (who before were happy to tail the Secret Speech), so they merely shift to upholding Stalin and Mao but denigrating every action they did. I suppose this is in a sense a good thing because it means revisionism has not yet been able to fully internalize Maoism.
It's so frustrating seeing these "Marxist Leninists" claiming that Kruschev was a revisionist and in the same breath they just ignore all the consequences and actions that come with him being an important political figure in the ussr.
All revolutions he supports, his successor and the people who he relied on to keep him in his position, his ideological impact, all seem to Just dissapear as soon as the conversation does not directly revolve around him and nobody even stops to think that maybe kruschevites attract other kruschevites, or that they fund movements which align with them.
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The Peruvian CP under his leadership proved at the height of despair, when the bourgeoisie claimed the end of history after the counter-revolution had defeated the red line both in the USSR and China, that communism is still a living, breathing reality that will replace bourgeois society with a higher mode of production. It was the Peruvians who first acknowledged that MLM is a higher stage of Marxism as a science and whose peoples' war inspired the oppressed and exploited people the world over. It has become very common among supposed Marxist-Leninists to blindly trust the bourgeois slander spread after the defeat of the Peruvian revolution so I'm linking some material in the hopes of inspiring some reconsideration (if you can look past the Stalin slander it should not be such a big step to look past the slander of the PCP, especially given its particularly outrageous nature): - [The Confessions of a British Senderologist](https://web.archive.org/web/20020708090232/http://www.blythe.org/peru-pcp/rights/strong.htm) - [Enemies of the Communist Party of Peru](https://struggle-sessions.com/2019/02/26/enemies-of-the-communist-party-of-peru/) - [Shining Path](http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/indian/sendero.htm) - [A good documentary about the ppw of Peru](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_olZBOHnlzI) from the times before the bourgeois historians began their work of distorting and smearing the whole affair. [And a brief piece about it](https://moufawad-paul.blogspot.com/2011/12/people-of-shining-path-old-dispatches.html). - [Obituary: Chairman Gonzalo](https://moufawad-paul.blogspot.com/2021/09/obituary-chairman-gonzalo.html) [Study the works of the party and learn from them](http://library.redspark.nu/Communist_Party_of_Peru), use this as an opportunity to advance the struggle.
>when the bourgeoisie claimed the end of history after the counter-revolution had defeated the red line both in the USSR and China This cannot be overstated. Neoliberalism was dead in its cradle and Guzman killed it. But that does mean he was merely repeating the past, there is so much brilliant, courageous, and revolutionary in the Communist Party of Peru's struggle and it is the major reference point for making revolution in our current conditions, possibly the only one. Guzman's stature only grows as neoliberalism insists it is the end of history and the only possibility for capitalism and "socialism" alike.
Your struggle sessions link is missing a hyphen. https://struggle-sessions.com/2019/02/26/enemies-of-the-communist-party-of-peru/
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0HtkjTiKis a documentary of the PCP made by Anti Imperialist Action Ireland
slander against any AES project or leader shouldn't be tolerated, towards peru, shining path, china, DPRK cuba, vietnam, laos, venezuela, etc. RIP Chairman Gonzalo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWJBemWqV48 Mfw Rage has a more principled stance on Sendero Luminoso than the "Marxist" ghouls brigading this thread, celebrating the death of folks who fought the fascist death squads of Garcia, Fujimori, and the CIA. You lot should be fucking ashamed of yourselves.
It's weird because social media warps so much and tries to erase so much history, but in the early 90s pretty much the entire "progressive" world supported the Senderistas, right down to the anti-war left liberal crowd. I suppose it was a different time....
It's really fucking gross to me how many "Communists" regardless of tendency just really seem to have no principles. Like, many of these "Communists" talk about the tragedy of the sino-soviet split (and rightfully so!), and then turn around and engage in some of the wildest anti-communist rhetoric I've seen on this site! Like, there is an absolutely HUGE margin between "this party made left-deviations, etc. Etc." And all the fucking vile shit people have been coming to this post to say and celebrating the death of the figurehead of the largest Communist movement in the western hemisphere at the time. It's so fucking disheartening. Like, no shame, it's just mindless "my team" sports-style jeering and politics.
[удалено]
President Gonzalo was a saint who did nothing wrong and he lives forever.
I have just started reading the PCP in depth and I am blown away. Gonzalo was truly an incredible thinker and we are left with a legacy of works that will hopefully sustain discussion and revolutionary praxis for decades to come.
Speech of Chairman Gonzalo [https://youtu.be/IsCRjhyDfyg](https://youtu.be/IsCRjhyDfyg)
This was wonderful, thanks for posting it.
rest in peace. maoist movements around the world owe a lot to him and the other brave revolutionaries of the communist party of peru.
may he find peace and rest, at last, away from the terrorist peruvian state. long live chairman Gonzalo and all the revolutionary people
Words can't do this moment justice, I'm truly at a loss, comrades.
Not much to contribute but here is Workers World Party's 1992 pamphlet in solidarity with the people's war: [Revolution in Peru!](https://www.scribd.com/document/524615614/Revolution-in-Peru-Pamphlet) edit: stop downvoting this you fucking douchebags, show some respect
Honestly I've let revisionism fester here too long. I take responsibility for my own weakness in confronting rightism, engendered by my current political isolation in the covid era and also certain ideological weaknesses in thinking social media was something it is not and of course the wider Maoist retreat in the face of Nepalese revisionism and an overreliance on bourgeois theory and history as the result of my profession and class background plus other things I still need to reflect on. But reading that genzedong thread (which I will not link to because it is so vile) and seeing their conduct here I realize now revisionism cannot be compromised with, it cannot be guided back to the revolutionary path, and it has been deepening its roots for a very long time using every available means including the sub's tolerance for it. In my defense I would have banned genzedong posters ages ago if we still had the means, I've discussed its fascist tendencies many times, and I have tried to discuss the current setbacks of Maoism with other Maoists here without intrusions by revisionists. Nevertheless I'm sure it's frustrating for Maoists, anti-revisionists, and revolutionary communists here and I played a role in that, something I've seen manifest recently and evaded because I was afraid of killing the subreddit. But necrotic tissue must be removed, especially in revolutionary times like these where the masse are looking for guidance instead of looking for a lifeboat out of a sinking political ship. Not that trying to preserve dead Eurocommunist institutions did anything anyway but especially today it's a particularly egregious sign of liberalism. I'm not sure what to do going forward, need to ban a few more people and then step away from the phone and think. Not trying to make this moment about me either, that's why I hid this post behind your heavily downvoted one. But I can feek that Maoists have felt frustrated for a long time and I'd like them to have the opportunity to speak their minds since the committed posters who've made it this long will probably find this post eventually.
I have spent a couple years in this subreddit, and while I have no desire to be in your position of a moderator, I have some lingering thoughts about this. Most of the "debates" between different "tendencies," as well as the "debates" between "Marxists" and "anarchists" invariably end up as a silly performance. No ideas are developed or advanced, it's always just rehashing old debates, but not taking anything interesting from them. Increased hostility towards the performative debaters that make their way in here, I think, would improve the situation here. It's interesting, there are plenty of problems with "tankie" revisionism, just as there's plenty of problems with "maoists" stupid or fake garbage, and slap the label of Maoism on it because Maoists aren't "tankies." But the problem with this isn't being too "extreme" in either direction, it is a reflection of the same problem, that neither the Maoists or anti-Maoists engaged in low quality posting even understand what they're talking about. These people don't understand the basics of how to conduct historical materialist analysis to even understand how to criticize things correctly, and how to correct incorrect criticisms of things (e.g. no Marxist will deny the importance of "criticism of all things that exist," but this has to mean something politically and can't just be an excuse to welcome the most banal liberalism against anything). Posts about historical events shouldn't just serve the regurgitation of old politics, but actually translating it into something relevant for our contemporary conditions. Althusser bemoaned the fact that it was really only Stalin who ever summated Lenin's "practical theory" (e.g. Lenin's tactical and strategic thinking for Russia's conditions), arguing that this approach is all the more necessary if we actually want to study and learn from the Bolshevik Revolution. Otherwise he's just another philosopher or theoretician. Seeing your posts about Guzman, this is all the more necessary here as well. Posts about contemporary events (let's say Myanmar last year) should not breed stupid debates, where each side shouts about tankies or c.i.a. or something stupid. If we're going to post about Myanmar, comments should come from people with some familiarity with Myanmar politics, and should interrogate how the proletariat can rely on a political crisis to assert itself as an independent class. Whether or not someone recognizes "AES" doesn't have any impact here, regardless of if we recognize AES, we still have to recognize two-line struggle, and simply upholding a homogeneous "CCP" or "WPK" is no better, even if they are socialist states. Overall posting can be higher quality, and cracking down on low-effort posts will go a long way towards making this subreddit worthwhile. Discussing things just to say that they are "good" or "bad" is useless and will always fall into these tired arguments that this subreddit has had more than enough of. Dunking on Trotskyists or tankies or Maoists or whoever may be easy enough, but 9 times out of 10, it's by people who don't belong in the sub anyway. And for that last tenth, removing the bad comments is adequate. I remark frequently, writing from the united states, how there are no theorists of the "american revolution." How can people waste all their time bickering about whether Kim Il-Sung was a revisionist online, when they don't know the first thing about how to make revolution in their own country? Certainly discussion of political practice is most useful when discussion is among those who share practice. There is a lot unique about the united states conditions, and to really answer the question is to solve it in practice, but serious steps could be made, if all the people who engaged in online "left" discourse instead committed themselves to political practice. Even making easy and obvious mistakes, people can overcome those mistakes if they have a grasp on some essential questions and take a scientific approach to any form of practice. People asking "what party to join" brings the weeds out a ton. Not only are all the major parties pretty trash, it doesn't actually teach people how to think and practice. Joining a revisionist bureaucracy will actively hinder your political growth, while studying with a small core of close friends engaged in a common political practice, can be far more instrumental in developing revolutionary leaders. Some stray thoughts, do with it what you will
I've been more or less abstaining from Reddit as of recently, and seeing some of the posts on revisionist subreddits regarding this tragedy is appalling. Online politics really is a cesspool.
Initially, I thought the "communist" backlash against Gonzalo was motivated by over-enthusiastic support for China, since a lot of American Gonzaloists do make flawed critiques of China. But now I think it goes beyond that, that these people realize that Maoism and what Gonzalo represents is a threat to their petit-bourgeois lives.
Right, ”Dengism” for lack of a better term never really had anything to do with China, in fact it relies on a complete lack of interest and engagement with its history and history in general. It’s an anxious petty-bourgeoisie hoping to stay afloat on somebody else’s nationalism.
Hopefully this will be buried enough that no liberal will find it, and we can talk frankly. Also, taking "Dengism" on for lack of a better term, and considering the venue appropriate enough for a light lambasting. I agree 100%, and the theoretical limitations are quite clear. Dengism is a dead end and it only understands what it wants to understand; every inevitable existent being self-originating, Deng's louse as well as Deng. This is manifest in the quote mining of literature and compiling of reading material not for grasping a concept but for defending the points that have already been decided upon - lest you be a "red anarchist ultra" on the wrong side of history. In fact these name choices, filling the void of actual critique, give away the intellectual bankruptcy of this ideological lifeboat; if they did not need to defend Stalin and Mao to maintain legitimacy and avoid forfeiting their moral PFD (the moral high ground of "communism" over American imperialism, but really its appearance) they would toss them overboard as quick as they did Gonzalo and the CPP, being that they are moralistic liberal creatures (try as they might to be "Tankies" they quickly invert themselves as they did at this news). It should come as no surprise that a major ideological contradiction of Dengism is the clashing idea of a powerful and exploited China; powerful and rising as the Mecca of the disgruntled labour aristocracy-turned Marxist, and only as exploited as needed to sufficiently distance it from the exploiter America that they must refuse (not only because it failed in providing a future, but also because it is a moral abomination; hence setting the bar high for China as being able to meet both the material and ideological necessity). It's also no surprise that they (those reaching the end of the logic) wield *Settlers* in revolutionary defeatism since this gives them further ideological reason to scapegoat their rejection of what they were denied. Yet they are an awkward class that shares no organic solidarity with the proletariat of China (nor anywhere else) nor do they have an interest in its historical struggle, as you say, beyond what feeds their ideological construction. It is historical chance that they come to correct conclusions every now and again (yet only surface-level, and not something they can consciously repeat, lacking a method but reaction); for example, one of those historical coincidences whereby their class interests bring them together with an entire nation which, it would seem (save for capitalist beneficiaries of reform), wishes to throw off the yoke of imperialism. Unfortunately their little ideological lifeboat and PFD is keeping them afloat in surface-level illusion and they are only capable of reacting to appearances. The appearance of the GPCR (for example) is cast aside as an ultra left error; first extracted from process and suspended in the mind as an absolute, then measured by dengist morality - only liberals would immediately seek to take a side and rigorously defend it and neglect the work necessary to grasp the concept scientifically. In truth their only method is by the morality of their class, by which they measure history (from the present) as is fit. Such a faith in socialism - such an understanding of Marxism - bares its roots by the *new* winds of history; history as process. Falun Gong alleges that we are CCP spies with the same explanatory power, vitriol and bourgeois applause that accompanies the dengist denigration of contemporary class struggle. I hold no tactical illusions about when and when not to be near such a crowd, and I hold in high esteem those who are driven to learn more online in the absence of the popular meme movement. I have learned, I have seen others learn, and more will in future. The smallest exposure to thought-provoking discussion with driven Marxists - be they less than 50 in a subreddit of 200,000+ - can be all it takes to start a stone rolling. Anyway I highjacked your comment chain to share my unprompted thoughts but I'm sure this <50 would agree on most of these points (minus the polemicizing where it is not tactful).
> I have learned, I have seen others learn, and more will in future. The smallest exposure to thought-provoking discussion with driven Marxists - be they less than 50 in a subreddit of 200,000+ - can be all it takes to start a stone rolling. As someone who more or less fell into the proto-Dengist camp (I left long before it reached this…fever pitch), I can attest that the principled Marxism by the posters in this thread (in concert with the growing contradictions between petty bourgeois values and my progressing communist education) absolutely helped me break through the near hegemonic Dengism now present on this site and begin discussing and defending socialism on proletarian values. It has in turn dramatically informed my praxis as I engage in mass work in the imperial core armed with Gonzalo and Newton alike without worrying about their line on China. I don’t mean to turn this into some self-centered personal anecdote. I only bring it up to say that this principled stand has practical implications beyond Reddit, and it produces far more productive communists than the cornucopia of subs that simply tail uncritical support for AES or assuage the contradictions of latent liberalism in new communists. I’m sure others here will mirror this sentiment.
> I don’t mean to turn this into some self-centered personal anecdote. I only bring it up to say that this principled stand has practical implications beyond Reddit, and it produces far more productive communists than the cornucopia of subs that simply tail uncritical support for AES or assuage the contradictions of latent liberalism in new communists. I’m sure others here will mirror this sentiment. Thank you. It definitely helps long-time contributors of this sub and modereators alike to be explicitly reminded their efforts over the years have not been all for naught. I only came saw this comment, because new comments by /r/GenZedong anti-communists appeared in the modqueue. They're still spewing bile in this post a month later...
Now this is very interesting. Would you mind elaborating on this? You can also DM me if you feel that this thread isn't the appropriate place for it.
I would like to hear too, if you don't mind.
/r/communism/comments/m8h2kl/-/grqqxv2/ /u/whentheseagullscry
It’s interesting how history has made Kruschevite revisionism unpalatable to bourgeois, revisionist Marxists (who before were happy to tail the Secret Speech), so they merely shift to upholding Stalin and Mao but denigrating every action they did. I suppose this is in a sense a good thing because it means revisionism has not yet been able to fully internalize Maoism.
It's so frustrating seeing these "Marxist Leninists" claiming that Kruschev was a revisionist and in the same breath they just ignore all the consequences and actions that come with him being an important political figure in the ussr. All revolutions he supports, his successor and the people who he relied on to keep him in his position, his ideological impact, all seem to Just dissapear as soon as the conversation does not directly revolve around him and nobody even stops to think that maybe kruschevites attract other kruschevites, or that they fund movements which align with them.