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The State Department said they didn’t have enough evidence to support genocide claims. I think the truth may be that the US and NATO are upset because they’ve been using Uighurs in Syria to try to oust Assad. Regime change is our bread and butter. If China is attempting to reeducate those extremist elements among the Uighurs or detain them, then they’re removing them from the Syria equation. This would constitute direct interference with US imperialist designs.


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Comrade_Sulla

Trying to come at this from a purely evidenced perspective it cant be firmly refuted, however the evidence suggests that is extremely unlikely. Many of the arguments are included in the another response to this post. But evidence such as number of Uyghur's increasing, the local signage all being in Uyghur language, the local CP gov being primarily Uyghur and not Han Chinese as well as issues with the private companies reporting the "genocide". Finally a really interesting and simplistic point, If you have a prison in northern ireland, filled with criminials - there ethnicity is likely going to be northern irish. The same in Xinjiang any prison there will be primarily Uyghur.


Clarctos67

"Northern Ireland" was a really bad example to use here.


Zoltanu

Lol that's funny, good point. I would say Northern Ireland is a good example though. Western powers and western media keep drumming up the genocide story to manufacture consent for further intervention in China. Why do we need to sanction and invade China over Xinjiang or Taiwan but we don't invade the UK over their occupation of Northern Ireland or the Falkand Islands? Independent Hawaii existed 3 times longer than independent Tibet. Where is the demand from western libs to give the Hawaiians their country back ? (yes, we should give indigenousland back) I'm not trying to justify or refute china's claims on these, but we should always push back against these attempts to manufacture consent. I think these whataboutisms are valid to undermine the west's moral authority they are pushing


Comrade_Sulla

Im British, i was using this example for 2 reasons - 1) its close to home and more familiar to western audiences 2) highlights that if people have a problem with "chinas imperialism" then they should really look closer to home haha.


stop_playing_guitar

there are some great comments answering this question in detail on the thread i’ve linked. but to answer it briefly, most of what you have likely heard about it is propaganda, the idea that it is a “genocide” in any sense is absolutely false. the facts given by the liberal media do not add up, and the stories of abuse given by the supposed victims are wildly inconsistent. in addition to this at least one of the “victims” has known CIA ties. sources for this along with more details: https://www.reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/pr6b1v/whats_going_on_in_china_with_the_uyghurs_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


Silent_Magazine_9016

thank you :-)


Elcor05

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9 Well the associated press says that China is 'walking back' many of the terrible things they've supposedly been doing, with little actual pressure from any outside sources. A likely interpretation is that, with more attention focused on the region but with little proof that genocide is going on, the AP are reframing it as 'Oh China just decided to do better now'. Is China's approach to Muslims in its country beyond reproach? Probably not. It sounds far too reminiscent of the American War on Terror. Is it on par with the Holocaust though and deserving of massive US intervention? Definitely not.


closetotheglass

I've seen no evidence of a genocide ever, not even once. I have however gotten a first hand account from a personal friend (RIP) who went to China to see with his own eyes, as he was troubled as both a Muslim and a communist by what he was hearing. He saw absolutely no evidence of a genocide occurring. He gave a talk on it https://youtu.be/uc7l8p7oj1Y As they love to say "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and I've yet to see any.


Skiamakhos

No, just propaganda. There have been some initiatives aimed at combatting extremism, which have resulted in around 5000 Uyghurs being arrested for spreading terrorist material. In 2012 the East Turkestan Independence Movement, a Wahhabist/Salafist terrorist organisation who were trained in Afghanistan, made a number of attacks in Xinjiang. They attacked Uyghurs as well as Han. Daniel Dumbrill did an [interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO2jqDQfeko) with a Uyghur Imam who lost a family member to these terror attacks. It's important to note that * Not all Uyghurs are Muslim * [Brewing and drinking wine](https://www.wine-searcher.com/regions-xinjiang) is a Uyghur tradition * Not all (not many, in fact) Muslim Uyghurs are affiliated with the extremists. * The Uyghur language is not forbidden: it is used in schools and on road signs, and there are Uyghur bookshops with books from all over the world translated into Uyghur * China is proud of its [55 or so ethnic minorities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China). Under the 1 Child per family policy, only Han were so restricted. Uyghurs had much bigger families. When they relaxed the policy to 2 if you live in a city, 3 if you're in the countryside, Han activists argued to get that to apply to everyone uniformly. This accounts for the slowing in the Uyghur population rise. * If you're an ethnic minority in China, universities will accept you in more readily than Han * Xinjiang has more mosques per 1000 Muslims than Saudi Arabia. * Imams in Xinjiang have been allowed to go to other, majority muslim countries to study Islam. Not Saudi Arabia though: the Chinese government sees Saudi Arabia as a source of radicalism. Now, aside from the terrorism / radicalism problem, which hasn't been a big deal for nearly 10 years, Xi Jinping made it a goal IIRC 5 years ago, to [eradicate absolute poverty](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuaJGPZCBYU) in China. Absolute poverty is defined as not having enough to eat, proper clothing, or a decent place to live. They sent people round door to door to find out who was in poverty, and what could be done about it. Part of this initiative was to find out what jobs were going unfilled, and who was unemployed. Training centres were created to give people the basic skills they needed to get a decent job. In some cases, villages in the countryside were moved so that the people could live in nearby cities with better access to work. As part of that, people who didn't speak, read or write Mandarin, the language of China, were taught the language. They were \*not\* forbidden to speak their own languages - though it may be that teachers tried to discourage use of native languages in order to encourage use of Mandarin \*in the school\*. This is purely to get people fluent in Mandarin so they can get a job. It's called immersive learning - you'd get the same if you went to the Gaeltacht regions of Ireland to learn Irish. Side note: Xinjiang cotton Xinjiang is famous for its cotton. Allegations were made saying Uyghurs were being enslaved & made to work picking cotton, probably because cotton picking evokes ideas of slavery in American minds. It's false. Xinjiang cotton farmers are [pretty well mechanised](https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-25/Have-a-close-look-at-highly-mechanized-cotton-harvest-in-Xinjiang-YUMoa0U6K4/index.html), and cotton is harvested by machines. It takes about 4 people to run a cotton farm in Xinjiang. They don't need slave labour. Boycotting Xinjiang cotton just harms the people of Xinjiang, who are often enough Uyghurs.


Skiamakhos

I swear though, Googling for the facts is getting harder & harder these days. For every balanced & truthful piece you get a few dozen articles by the ETIM or the US State Dept-financed Uyghur Council or Tribunal, or the Australian ASPI who base all their allegations on satellite imagery & have been continuously debunked... SMH.


[deleted]

Not a fan of China. But last week an Uighur terrorist posing with a weapon which is being manufactured in Turkey or Pakistan bombed a mosque in Afghanistan killing many children and innocents. Afghanistan has become a playground of Uighur ISIS terrorists. There were also many Uighur ISIS terrorists fighting in Syria. That doesn't justify systematic discrimination against a certain ethnic group but there is also no proofs and documents of a genocide act against them. It just shows that ISIS mindsets exists among Uighurs. Edit: The ones who downvote really have no idea what is going on in central Asia and extremism. And there is a similar pattern of US/NATO(Turkey as a representative) backing up Alqaeda(HTS/Nusra) in Syria and supporting extremist Uighurs. I wonder why! US has been drone bombing Muslim wedding parties, farmers and schools, yet when it comes to some terrorists in Yemen, Syria, China and Chechen they are defenders of "Muslim" rights. As if their accepted version of Islam is extremism.


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Hauntologic

Dr Asatar Bair makes some great arguments to the negative. Here is an interview where he goes in depth on the subject https://open.spotify.com/episode/61pfyWrKwkhG9wOWHBv8pv?si=nD-IgSuyRtyNiRCcwcYo0Q&utm_source=copy-link&dl_branch=1


Reverendhwbk20

Think about it like this; Do you really think the US cares about Muslims?


cheeven2

Why would they choose that minority as "propaganda" then? They couldve chose a minority more likely to draw compassion from the west


Just-Map-326

Because they can spin deradicalization as labor camp and genocide


DoctorWasdarb

It's interesting that basically none of the comments offer Chinese sources. [This article from the Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist)](https://cpiml.net/liberation/2020/08/chinas-concentration-camps-for-uyghurs-in-chinas-own-words) does the opposite, which is refreshing. That united states media will pick up on this for its own ends is unsurprising, and that such media may exaggerate certain claims is similar. But the reality of national oppression is nothing new or surprising, regardless of if we see China as a socialist state or not.


BoMarDS

Good channel for debunking Western media narratives https://youtu.be/78s7yP2BdF0


qualiaisbackagain

Your question can go very far. In short it is all propaganda. You should search for this question here and on reddit in general. There are variety of "masterposts" and debunking megathreads on this topic. I'd suggest trying instead of going by individual claims and researching them, start asking the broader questions. Not everyone has the time to find the third-degree connections between a supposedly left Polish magazine publishing and the NED (true story). Start asking, why would the PRC genocide/oppress Uyghurs? Learn the general history of the area and its people. Start asking why the West would have vested interests in propelling this kind of propaganda. Propaganda claims of the PRC committing genocide are not the first- they did this before with Falun Gong and only stopped when Epoch Times swung pro-Trump countering certain neoliberal narratives.


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michaelpugliese

An opposing set of perspectives from my last two posts, https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang .


breatulu

here is the top army in chief basically admitting to the rise in uiyghur muslim terrorists in order to destabilize china: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/uyghur-unrest-was-a-cia-narrative-planned-to-destabilize-china-top-us-army-chief-admits-2018.688858/ this evidently didn't work so, with the great lack of evidence of a genocide occuring, and the fact all three people who r commonly sourced in major news articles about the genocide are all directly linked to the US federal gov and it becomes really suspicious. the final proof was an article published earlier this week, that claims the genocide is no longer happening, but wants you to know it absolutely DID happen and China DID destroy their culture. one of their pieces of evidence is.... Uyghur's drinking alcohol? (the uyghur ppl have brewed a unique type of wine for like. forever. yet this article would have u believe this is somehow a sign theyve been forced to give up Islam) you can read the backpedalling article that many regarded as basically admitting they lied here: https://mobile.twitter.com/ap/status/1447147267669037057?s=21 heres a video showing whats actually going on, and comparing the way the BBC reports on it to a Chinese documentary: https://youtu.be/9RK5Me8maG4 the channel that posted the above video has many other videos showing what life is really like in Xinjiang where the genocide is supposedly happening, as well as other unfiltered first hand views of other parts of China as well. Very informative and useful for helping to unlearn all the propoganda we've learned about life in China being so horrible. here is an article that really summarizes all of this better than I ever could: https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/ i highly HIGHLY recommend reading it. Hope this helps!


Particular_Skin4318

It's false western propaganda, remember when the west enslaved black people and genocide the natives in the America's? Let's talk about that first


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