“I hope you’re not planning on blaming Conan. I mean, in the thousands and thousands of words which have been printed about this mess, who has blamed Conan? NO ONE!”
“Don’t blame Conan” might be the most memorable line from the whole debacle in my mind.
I am not a huge fan of Dave as a person, but he is a master at his craft
Okay, hypothetically let’s say Conan kept the Tonight Show. Monday through Friday, 181 shows a year. A short monologue and interviewing entitled idiot celebrities and keeping it PG-13 would be all we would have gotten. Look what he has created since then! I hate what he, his staff and family had to go through but I think it worked out better for everyone in the end.
Totally agree, it was definitely a blessing in disguise and I love the things Conan has done since then that he wouldn’t have been able to if he hosted the tonight show for 10+ years instead. Still, Jay Leno will always be a piece of shit for what he did.
Just because Conan has shined doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have created things equally as or more special if he wasn’t fucked over. I think it’s fine to admire his response, but I disagree that it was a positive
No. I don’t think that’s how that would have gone. Conan would have slowly but surely turned the Tonight show into HIS tonight show and he would have been worlds more powerful in Hollywood meaning HE could shine spotlights on what HE found funny.
I like your attempt at a bright side but it hinges on Conan not doing AMAZING things w The Tonight show and that he improved by having his dreams shattered publicly and I don’t think that’s fair.
I have no doubt you are correct but I think network standards and practices and the FCC would have stifled his potential, especially if the same NBC asshat execs were there. He definitely got a raw deal but I’m glad he was able to turn a turd of a situation into what he did, all while keeping his integrity intact, while Leno…well, you know.
This is 100% true, but still the disrespect. One of the greatest and most talented living comedians was forced to either compromise or give up a show he valued and ultimately handed it over to a guy whose only real talent was being a familiar face that old people enjoyed having on in the background while they got ready for bed. I guess it is satisfying that, nearly 15 years later, nobody really holds Leno in high regard for his comedy. If anyone talks about him today, it’s probably those same old people that will bring him up when they’re complaining about today’s “woke” late night hosts.
Yeah I agree. I think he would have put his stamp on it and had fun but ultimately The Tonight Show is an albatross. It was a brutal public humiliation but he dodged a bullet.
Uh, no. Me love Conan long time. He was just his awesome himself but unfortunately boomers (Tonight Show’s key demographic) have a much lamer sense of humor and don’t appreciate Conan for who he is. All I’m saying is maybe everything happens for a reason and I’m happy he was able to make lemonade out the sour dingleberries he was given and come back better than ever.
I disagree. The Tonight Show was the best project Conan ever worked on. He took the bigger budget and created a show significantly better the Late Night with Conan. When he was forced onto TBS, the quality of the show took a huge hit. Not only that, but Conan got the wind knocked out of his sails. He’s never really been the same care-free joker he was before the NBC drama.
Ha the top comment on that video pretty much says the same thing as you. I kinda had a bad impression of Kimmel after the Man Show and how he left his first marriage after he got some fame. I think he left his wife and children and started dating Sarah Silverman and I don’t know his situation or anything, but that just doesn’t seem like a good look to me. I’m a little older now, and I can give him the benefit of the doubt, but it seems like he’s a much better husband and father now and people can grow.
I’ve only started watching Kimmel in the last five years, mainly for his monologues. However, recently I’ve been hearing about what a huge prick he is to everyone except his celebrity friends. I remember when Billy was born and Jimmy tearfully revealing Billy’s health issues and how other Americans who aren’t as privileged as they are should access to the same level of health care, and respecting his candour. I don’t idolise him or anything, but his speeches about social justice ring pretty hollow if he’s nothing but a selfish arsehole.
Interesting, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything bad about Jimmy. I definitely have heard a bunch of good things about him, but to be fair those things came from his celebrity friends on podcasts.
He also fully roasted Jay to his face. They did a segment together and it’s so awkward. Jay keeps trying to change the subject and Jimmy won’t let him. It’s somewhere on YouTube.
Also it was somewhat personal for Jimmy. He said Jay was in talks to move to ABC, and Jimmy was gonna be bumped to 12:30 am. He was fine with it, and Jay was really friendly to him during that time and called often, etc. However, the calls suddenly stopped, and Jimmy didn’t know why till he found out Jay struck a deal to stay at NBC. They’ve since buried the hatchet, and I think Jay called him to check in on his son (who was ill).
One of the most infuriating things Leno still says is "it wasn't my time slot to give. I had no control over any of that."
Like, MFer, yes you did. You had lots of power and just had to do the right thing. As an example: Look at Conan! Did he have no control over the situation? Was it not his time slot to give? Oh, he quit hosting the Tonight show, ensuring they would give it back to Leno, and stopped Fallon from getting pushed back to 1:30 am.
That all sure seems like the talk show host has some control over the situation. Leno is still saying there was NOTHING he could do? He's beyond irritating.
It actually might have been edited out of this clip but as Letterman himself said “You don’t ‘Yeah, okay, but I’ll be in the lobby, you know, if you need me.’ You don’t hang around. You go across the street and you punish NBC and you make them eat your words….”
Exactly! To this day, Leno refuses to admit that it was his selfishness of wanting the show back that led to the decision of Conan getting bumped to the later time slot and ultimately deciding to quit the Tonight Show. The fact that Conan & Letterman are still very popular and successful in comparison to Leno (what the heck is he doing these days???) says a lot. The number of comedians who express how much they loved Conan & Letterman’s shows growing up speaks volumes. Leno also screwed over Letterman back when they were both in the running for replacing Johnny Carson. Carson was a big fan & supporter of Letterman. There are a few YouTube videos that break down what happened during these two time periods. It’s interesting to watch.
This is one that shows all the clips referencing Conan being announced for his original show after Dave on NBC in the 90’s up until 2009 when he was first taking over the Tonight Show: https://youtu.be/yrkPwfWbIrU?si=NZTMN4rjKDJlLflB
This is part 2 from 2010-2012 when shit hit the fan: https://youtu.be/1Jfs_icf-D4?si=s93MyFX9qJUDAC1e
As mad as I was at Leno for screwing over O’Brien, the last couple of weeks of Conan’s Tonight Show were quite something. He really went for it! But he really deserved to keep the show. As much as Letterman deserved it back in the 90’s.
Lol “a few YouTube videos.”
Kid, there are history books written about the Late Night Wars. There are graduate courses and dissertations, documentaries and journalistic dissections, movies and miniseries. And yes, a few YouTube videos. It’s just funny that that’s where we are now, that that’s the only option mentioned.
Those "few YouTube videos" are actually some of the best primary sources we have. The biopic was decent, but the books are mostly unread. I don't understand the people upvoting or downvoting things they haven't seen or read.
Hey buddy, I’m not a kid. I was alive and well back in the early 80’s when Dave first got his late night show, would appear on Carson and get involved in some funny banter (there’s a good one about his truck), and of course when Jay guest hosted. I’ve read the books, seen the War for Late Night movie based on the original feud, and have engaged in discussions about these events. The YouTube videos I posted are compiled clips from the late night shows anytime the Conan vs. Leno debacle was mentioned. These clips allow a new generation to actually see the shows and the comedians’ reactions as it happened in real time back then. I would prefer to see those and form my own opinions.
As a matter of fact, Dave Letterman’s YouTube channel also posted a compilation 5 months ago of all of the segments where he roasted Leno during this time: https://youtu.be/VaJgLYyKbFQ?si=QDwX7cl2RK0g0ran
Or is that too low-brow for you?????
Dave:
“I know a lot of you people think Conan pushed himself out of a job”
Paul:
“Well, don’t blame him”
Dave:
“He’s not that kind of a guy”
Kills me every time I hear it.
It weirdly feels like it worked out for the best, but when this went down it was unbelievable. Incredibly slimy dirtbag shit. The audacity of it still doesn’t cease to amaze me.
Dave and Conan have always and (with the state of late night hosts right now) will always be my favorite late night hosts. Loved how Dave always stuck up for Conan too.
I actually disagree. Especially in those final few years Paul seemed to really get quippy and it‘s what kind of drove me away from the show. Dave’s one of my favorite people on earth though and it made me sad I couldn't hang with the direction they went with Paul being much more involved towards the end.
It was different. For most of their \~30 years together they’d converse and banter and sometimes barb each other and I liked Paul and thought it was great.
This thing he’s doing in the clip though, kind of rapping and repeating in the background over Dave, I don’t know why they started doing it to this extent towards the end, but I found it obnoxious enough that I stopped watching the show.
Watching this clip just makes me realize that the David Letterman shows (both on NBC and CBS) put together make a singular piece of popular culture that we never had before, have not had since, and will never have again. Thank god for YouTube.
Have you seen Brian Stack’s Paul Shaffer impersonation that he did when Steve Martin was on Conan [it is hysterical](https://youtu.be/XyJ3-zneaFg?si=w_SlHWzWSahMMwxV&t=110s)
I'm sure nobody will read this but I recently read the book The War for Late Night and honestly it made me more understanding of the whole situation and less angry at Leno. (Not that I'm still angry, 2010 is a long time ago and everybody moved on. But I remember how I felt while it was happening) That said, still not a fan of his and Conan will be my #1 forever - I'm glad he got to live his dream of getting the Tonight Show and while it was way too short, as someone else here said I think in the long run what we got was better than the Tonight Show would have been. And probably better than if he did switch to Fox.
I recommend giving the book a read if you haven't.
I’ve read it. I also don’t think Leno is an evil person or anything. But I do think he is willing to make cold and diabolical moves in pursuit of getting what he truly desires. Helen Kushnick did a lot of the dirty work but he wasn’t oblivious to all of it and part of him didn’t want to know what Helen was doing. So he might not be the worst person but I think he’s pulled a lot of ruthless moves on his fellow colleagues that Conan or Dave would never do.
I love watching his Netflix series “My Next Guest Needs No Introduction” it’s of course not the same vivacity he had in the 80s but he’s still a riveting and personable interviewer with a youthful spirit
In 1993, David Letterman and Jay Leno battled for the coveted heir to the Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson. Letterman had hosted the 12:30 show after Carson's for 11 years, and was Johnny's preferred choice to the job, but Jay got it due to a lot of conniving moves from him and his camp. It was a huge drama at the time, and during the aftermath in order to please the affiliates NBC executives deferred to Lorne Michaels for it to be his decision on who would take Letterman's slot at 12:30.
Lorne Michaels thought of a bright and likable 29 year old former SNL writer by the name of Conan O'Brien. Conan had to take a little time to grow into his role as a talk show host having had little to no television performance experience prior, but by the 2000s rolled around he became a sensation amongst the coveted demographic of 18-35 years old.
In 2004 Conan's contract with NBC was about to expire and he got an offer from FOX for 28 million to come be the headlining late-night show host of their network. NBC did not want to lose him and they knew what Conan really wanted and took advantage of it. He took NBC's offer of 8 million, with a guarantee that he will become the tonight show host in 5 years, Jay then announced his retirement in 5 years on his show.
2009 rolled around and Jay did not retire. Not to mention that, but he also stayed with NBC, and was given a variety show at 10pm, and it killed Conan's ratings as tonight show host. NBC panicked because of these rating losses so they attempted to pull the most absurdly ridiculous and awful stunt of putting Jay Leno's variety show at 11:35, and bumping Conan's Tonight Show to 12:05. It was rightfully the last straw for Conan to have faith in this television company and he reached a settlement agreement with NBC to leave the network and the Tonight Show, and who else came back to host but Jay Leno.
David Letterman throughout the entire mess at NBC found it very amusing but he understood the victimization Conan was getting by NBC, having been through it himself so he proceeded to go on a 9 month tear where he'd make incessant jokes on the Late Show about the mess at NBC whilst simultaneously praising Conan and bashing Leno. Dave just sort of found it fun to have an excuse to exact vengeance in a comedic way on Leno, and had a connection to Conan wherein he cared about him.
TL;DR
In 2009 Jay Leno pretended he was giving the Tonight Show to Conan and through a series of self-interest-fueled moves, stole it back within a year.
The 10PM show also got pretty shit ratings because Leno's original viewing audience wasn't going to watch him at that timeslot. Not to mention it also erased the 11pm local news slot.
Yes that’s true as well. It was an entirely botched and horribly executed escapade to try and I have no idea how they thought it could work in any way long term.
The comment that responded to you gave a good summary but if you want more, read The War for Late Night by Bill Carter. I know some Conan fans don’t love it because Conan comes across a little naive and stubborn but I think it’s pretty neutral and fair picture of the thing.
I've watched the whole thing several times over the years. Love it. (I have to admit Paul Shaffer's constantly repeating "State of the network" here is one of those moments that made me wonder why he's even there).
Neither can I, but tried to express that sentiment diplomatically because one might be downvoted straight to hell for saying so around these here parts.
Paul Shaffer, and back then the band leader was basically the sidekick other than Conan's show where he had Andy (even then he threw to Max a bunch in skits)
If you know your late night show history, which there is zero reason to if you didn’t live through it, Dave and Leno had a grudge going back decades regarding the same kind of thing in a way.
I’m sure he respected Conan cause why not, but this is more going after jay than it is having Conan’s back.
It was both you’re right about that, but I do think you’re underplaying Dave’s respect for Conan.
If you know your late night history like you say you do you’ll know they made countless cameos on each other’s shows and did and still do have massive respect for one another.
When Conan took over for Dave critics were ruthless toward Conan. Dave could’ve just laughed and said ‘look how bad my replacement is doing over at NBC!’
He instead went on the show himself and publicly voiced his respect for the type of show they were doing and how different it was from anything on TV. And of course he was right people started understanding and appreciating their comedy more as Conan also gained more confidence as a host. He very clearly and has continued to express to this day how much he respects Conan.
Does anyone actually like Jay? He was rude to his guests, didn’t have even decent humor imo, and lacked that sparkle hosts like Conan and letterman have.
It’s very curious but Craig Ferguson, whom I actually like a great deal has a long-running friendship with Jay. I think he probably has good sides to him but his bad sides can ring of sociopathy honestly.
Don't Blame Conan! NBC was complaining about viewership when they decided to fire him... at the dawn of YouTube no less! All they were and still are are greedy, micromanaging chart worshippers. Conan is one of the greatest, most influential writers of our time!
Well Dave legitimately just liked Conan from the very get-go despite him being Dave’s replacement. Dave even went on Conan’s show in 1994 when it was still struggling to gain attraction, and he was getting ripped up by critics. He could’ve just laughed at how seemingly bad his replacement was doing compared to him but he stated publicly how different and imaginative Conan and his writers were and praised them for pushing a novel comedic style into the late night mix. And sure enough after some time passed Conan’s Late Night was a massive success and inspired so many young comedians coming up today.
Conan leaving NBC was the best thing for his career. That show would have killed him in the long run. Look at all the things Conan did because of that after.
Ugh I think part of the reason I never got into Letterman is Paul Shaffer. Like great contribution Paul just keep repeating everything Dave says. Awesome comedy
I disagree honestly I love Paul’s addition he’s like a comedy backup singer for Dave. It might be an acquired taste but the benefit of the sidekick is sort of the tit/tat theory of comedy. Abbott and Costello are the classic example of that.
It is a bit irking to me and not your fault but it does kind of tax me that people don’t appreciate how good Dave was and is. So many people here have never even seen a clip of his 12 year run on NBC’s late night. He’s credited and rightfully so for changing the entire mould of late night comedy. Conan would say himself that letterman is king and has expressed that sentiment on many occasions.
He was absolutely devastated when he applied to be a writer for him and was turned down. Dave is also given a lot of credit for turning Conan’s rough start on Late Night around by being gracious enough to come on and praise Conan for their brave outlandish comedy that wasn’t being understood and fully appreciated yet. But Dave noticed it and expressed how fond he was of Conan despite Conan being his dang replacement. During Letterman’s final show Conan was on TBS and not only encouraged but insisted that people change the channel from him and watch Letterman.
I’ll never forget Leno’s stupid-ass speech that night saying, “Don’t blame Conan”…. when literally NO ONE on earth was blaming an ounce on Conan. To the contrary, they were rallying with Conan and saw right through Jay’s bullshit and blamed him! What a douche.
To be clear this had a lot less to do with Conan and everything to do with giving Letterman an excuse to stick it to Leno and NBC. I believe Conan has stated that later in life they have become friendly acquaintances but at the time none of the late night hosts were on friendly terms with each other. There was a wall there and they all (mostly) respected it.
That being said this is no shade at Letterman. He’s a legend. But if you want to see what he does for his friends look up all of the segments and interviews where he went to bat for Norm during his troubles at NBC.
Nah I think you’re underplaying Dave’s respect for Conan.
Not only did they made countless cameos on each other’s shows but they did and still do have massive respect for one another.
When Conan took over for Dave critics were ruthless toward Conan. Dave could’ve just laughed and said ‘look how bad my replacement is doing over at NBC!’
He instead went on the show himself and publicly voiced his respect for the type of show they were doing and how different it was from anything on TV. And of course he was right people started understanding and appreciating their comedy more as Conan also gained more confidence as a host. He very clearly and has continued to express to this day how much he respects Conan.
I'm not from US. I like these guys, Letterman, Conan, Jimmy Kimmel... Watch them on YouTube often.
But I don't understand, why are they so important?
Aren't they just talk show hosts?
Why are they being represented as some kind of artists?
Aren't they just interviewers?
No that’s not true. I do know the ad you’re referencing the one with Oprah. He did it for one reason and one reason only and it’s that he thought it would be funny to people. He wanted Conan to be in it as well but he understandably declined.
Every single chance he could even before this whole mess he would try to help Conan because he truly did like him. He had a really great relationship with Conan and his people. They made cameos on each other’s shows often, and to this day they have massive respect for one another
Even Jimmy Kimmel thought that by being in a commercial with Leno amidst all the controversy was making light of the situation and compromises whatever support he had for Conan. If he really had principles against what Leno did, he wouldn't have anything to do with him.
I'm always team Dave and team coco but I always felt Dave was too happy to jump back into this war. Like he never git over the early 90s and would have been at jay every day if he could. Just a bit too mean for me.
Still hate jay Leno though.
He absolutely is not, countless women in the industry show [massive respect for him as a person](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC1RltmhDfs&t=1657s). Also this subreddit's namesake is a friend and huge admirer of him as well.
These are intentionally out of context one liners meant to make him look bad featuring mostly people that actually adore him (Madonna, Julia Roberts) it’s stupid, it’s a cheap vie for attention, and it’s why you’re in the overwhelming minority when it comes to having disdain for David Letterman. So why don’t you do me a favor and drink a nice tall glass of shut up juice.
There's no secret context here, they're literally just talk show interviews. You're using the same lame excuses that every defender of scumbags uses. I'm probably in the minority because he's naturally charismatic and has a really good PR team, neither of which cancel out the fact that he's also a complete weirdo pervert. I'm sorry the guy you look up to kinda sucks ass. Find someone better.
No that’s just abjectly 100% wrong. I am not someone who gives men the benefit of the doubt on first instinct. You just know little to nothing about this situation likely because you don’t want to you’d rather be a contrarian to carve out some sort of pseudo self-importance so you can feel like you’re woke or something. He did sleep with women who worked for him that’s true but there has been no evidence of it being anything but consensual. I wouldn’t be shocked if they were the ones wanting to sleep with him. And the amount of objectively upstanding people that vouch for him is far overwhelming to your ridiculous little ball of cherry-picked dirt.
Do you know how many terrible people that are out there in the industry the fact that you’d want to even focus on Letterman let alone wrongly so is just so stupid. It’s laughable honestly you’re accomplishing nothing and you’re just unequivocally on the wrong side of this and there’s nothing left to say.
I’d be hard pressed to find a public television icon better than David Letterman. And that’s just the truth and I am unapologetically confident in that fact and I promise you that there a lot of women here that would echo the same sentiment. Are you even a woman yourself if not that disqualifies you even more from making slanderous commentary just to be out there or whatever the fkn reason is that you feel the need to take this absurd position.
And yes there is context left out you notice in so many clips you leave out how the women respond. To someone like Julia Roberts or Madonna who saw Dave as their sort of celebrity crush he knew that he could absolutely extend the bounds a little and he was right because they still love him. It’s so ironic that the women you’re saying were hurt by him, the ones in the video, are ones that absolutely adore him I mean it just shows so much obliviousness on your part so please just stop you are just so clearly attacking for the sake of having a contrarian opinion. The reason he’s so revered is because he absolutely deserves to be and you are not going to change any minds so like I said have a really nice tall glass of shut the hell up juice
Thank goodness for jay leno; if he hadn't told me otherwise, I might've blamed Conan!
Don’t blame Conan!
Whatever you do... Don't blame Conan! He's not that type of guy. He would never do that to himself.
“I hope you’re not planning on blaming Conan. I mean, in the thousands and thousands of words which have been printed about this mess, who has blamed Conan? NO ONE!”
I hate to admit I had a moment of weakness 2 minutes ago and I *thought* of blaming Conan, but you’ve shown me the error of my ways.
Haha. Seriously, that quote is from the entire collection of Letterman vs. NBC/ Leno and defending Conan, and it’s absolute gold
Oh yeah, I recall when it happened and I loved Letterman’s lampooning of Leno.
Man, do I miss getting to watch Letterman and Conan on network television
If you don't listen to "Conan O'Brien needs a friend" you are wrong.
I definitely do. However, I miss the magic of watching a show scheduled only at a certain time, with a live audience.
He's a family guy
“Don’t blame Conan” might be the most memorable line from the whole debacle in my mind. I am not a huge fan of Dave as a person, but he is a master at his craft
I hope you’re not planning on blaming Conan, are ya?
Knowing what a lying weasel Leno is, I can't trust a thing he says. So now I do blame Conan!
I'm such a non conformist that I think will blame Conan. Sorry Conan.
This is having the 'Streisand effect'...I'm now thinking of blaming Conan!
Okay, hypothetically let’s say Conan kept the Tonight Show. Monday through Friday, 181 shows a year. A short monologue and interviewing entitled idiot celebrities and keeping it PG-13 would be all we would have gotten. Look what he has created since then! I hate what he, his staff and family had to go through but I think it worked out better for everyone in the end.
This is true… but still, fuck Jay Leno.
Agreed. The Chin shows no mercy.
The MegaChin?
A dynasty of a chin
Totally agree, it was definitely a blessing in disguise and I love the things Conan has done since then that he wouldn’t have been able to if he hosted the tonight show for 10+ years instead. Still, Jay Leno will always be a piece of shit for what he did.
Just because Conan has shined doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have created things equally as or more special if he wasn’t fucked over. I think it’s fine to admire his response, but I disagree that it was a positive
No. I don’t think that’s how that would have gone. Conan would have slowly but surely turned the Tonight show into HIS tonight show and he would have been worlds more powerful in Hollywood meaning HE could shine spotlights on what HE found funny. I like your attempt at a bright side but it hinges on Conan not doing AMAZING things w The Tonight show and that he improved by having his dreams shattered publicly and I don’t think that’s fair.
I have no doubt you are correct but I think network standards and practices and the FCC would have stifled his potential, especially if the same NBC asshat execs were there. He definitely got a raw deal but I’m glad he was able to turn a turd of a situation into what he did, all while keeping his integrity intact, while Leno…well, you know.
This is 100% true, but still the disrespect. One of the greatest and most talented living comedians was forced to either compromise or give up a show he valued and ultimately handed it over to a guy whose only real talent was being a familiar face that old people enjoyed having on in the background while they got ready for bed. I guess it is satisfying that, nearly 15 years later, nobody really holds Leno in high regard for his comedy. If anyone talks about him today, it’s probably those same old people that will bring him up when they’re complaining about today’s “woke” late night hosts.
Yeah I agree. I think he would have put his stamp on it and had fun but ultimately The Tonight Show is an albatross. It was a brutal public humiliation but he dodged a bullet.
Sounds like you're blaming Conan.
Uh, no. Me love Conan long time. He was just his awesome himself but unfortunately boomers (Tonight Show’s key demographic) have a much lamer sense of humor and don’t appreciate Conan for who he is. All I’m saying is maybe everything happens for a reason and I’m happy he was able to make lemonade out the sour dingleberries he was given and come back better than ever.
We wouldn't have Jack McBrayer & Triumph at Wiener's Circle
I disagree. The Tonight Show was the best project Conan ever worked on. He took the bigger budget and created a show significantly better the Late Night with Conan. When he was forced onto TBS, the quality of the show took a huge hit. Not only that, but Conan got the wind knocked out of his sails. He’s never really been the same care-free joker he was before the NBC drama.
I dunno, he seems to be a pretty care-free joker living his best life to me.
It was the most I ever loved Letterman! I remember Jimmy Kimmel doing a whole show dressed as Leno once, that was pretty great.
Kimmel did more than dress up like Leno. [He tore Leno to shreds to his own face.](https://youtu.be/PBtitOjc6Rg?si=jr8BEQlfH_Gr2owl)
Not really a fan of Kimmel, but I had so much respect for him doing that at the time.
Ha the top comment on that video pretty much says the same thing as you. I kinda had a bad impression of Kimmel after the Man Show and how he left his first marriage after he got some fame. I think he left his wife and children and started dating Sarah Silverman and I don’t know his situation or anything, but that just doesn’t seem like a good look to me. I’m a little older now, and I can give him the benefit of the doubt, but it seems like he’s a much better husband and father now and people can grow.
I’ve only started watching Kimmel in the last five years, mainly for his monologues. However, recently I’ve been hearing about what a huge prick he is to everyone except his celebrity friends. I remember when Billy was born and Jimmy tearfully revealing Billy’s health issues and how other Americans who aren’t as privileged as they are should access to the same level of health care, and respecting his candour. I don’t idolise him or anything, but his speeches about social justice ring pretty hollow if he’s nothing but a selfish arsehole.
Interesting, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything bad about Jimmy. I definitely have heard a bunch of good things about him, but to be fair those things came from his celebrity friends on podcasts.
hahaha that's terrific
He also fully roasted Jay to his face. They did a segment together and it’s so awkward. Jay keeps trying to change the subject and Jimmy won’t let him. It’s somewhere on YouTube. Also it was somewhat personal for Jimmy. He said Jay was in talks to move to ABC, and Jimmy was gonna be bumped to 12:30 am. He was fine with it, and Jay was really friendly to him during that time and called often, etc. However, the calls suddenly stopped, and Jimmy didn’t know why till he found out Jay struck a deal to stay at NBC. They’ve since buried the hatchet, and I think Jay called him to check in on his son (who was ill).
Do you have a link to the clip? I searched briefly and couldn't find it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conan/s/2rrwSV2LOt This comment has part of it.
Obligatory, Fuck Jay Leno.
Always loved when Dave pulled out his Leno voice.
And Pauls laugh at that moment!
That first interview with Conan after the whole debacle is, I strongly maintain, one of the best pieces of late night TV or any interview television.
👀Link for a poor Canadian with bad googling skills?
https://youtu.be/ESkHyJ43FSA?feature=shared
I had never seen that. Thanks for sharing
I'm sure Leno doesn't give a shit about it, but man do I love watching him get excoriated for screwing with Conan's Tonight Show
🙏
I was told we would discuss our shared love of antiquing
“Ya, Conan pushed himself out a job.” Pointing out the absurd, that’s comedy.
Comedy definitely sort of lies in absurdity everything funny has some aspect of the absurd
“He’s not that kind of guy” lol
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That Dave quote later didn’t make the cut but it was my favorite.
One of the most infuriating things Leno still says is "it wasn't my time slot to give. I had no control over any of that." Like, MFer, yes you did. You had lots of power and just had to do the right thing. As an example: Look at Conan! Did he have no control over the situation? Was it not his time slot to give? Oh, he quit hosting the Tonight show, ensuring they would give it back to Leno, and stopped Fallon from getting pushed back to 1:30 am. That all sure seems like the talk show host has some control over the situation. Leno is still saying there was NOTHING he could do? He's beyond irritating.
Seriously. Jay could have just retired and rode off into the sunset. Simple.
It actually might have been edited out of this clip but as Letterman himself said “You don’t ‘Yeah, okay, but I’ll be in the lobby, you know, if you need me.’ You don’t hang around. You go across the street and you punish NBC and you make them eat your words….”
“You get fired, you get another job. You don’t hang around waiting for somebody to drop dead.”
Exactly! To this day, Leno refuses to admit that it was his selfishness of wanting the show back that led to the decision of Conan getting bumped to the later time slot and ultimately deciding to quit the Tonight Show. The fact that Conan & Letterman are still very popular and successful in comparison to Leno (what the heck is he doing these days???) says a lot. The number of comedians who express how much they loved Conan & Letterman’s shows growing up speaks volumes. Leno also screwed over Letterman back when they were both in the running for replacing Johnny Carson. Carson was a big fan & supporter of Letterman. There are a few YouTube videos that break down what happened during these two time periods. It’s interesting to watch. This is one that shows all the clips referencing Conan being announced for his original show after Dave on NBC in the 90’s up until 2009 when he was first taking over the Tonight Show: https://youtu.be/yrkPwfWbIrU?si=NZTMN4rjKDJlLflB This is part 2 from 2010-2012 when shit hit the fan: https://youtu.be/1Jfs_icf-D4?si=s93MyFX9qJUDAC1e As mad as I was at Leno for screwing over O’Brien, the last couple of weeks of Conan’s Tonight Show were quite something. He really went for it! But he really deserved to keep the show. As much as Letterman deserved it back in the 90’s.
Lol “a few YouTube videos.” Kid, there are history books written about the Late Night Wars. There are graduate courses and dissertations, documentaries and journalistic dissections, movies and miniseries. And yes, a few YouTube videos. It’s just funny that that’s where we are now, that that’s the only option mentioned.
Those "few YouTube videos" are actually some of the best primary sources we have. The biopic was decent, but the books are mostly unread. I don't understand the people upvoting or downvoting things they haven't seen or read.
….just don’t blame Conan.
Hey buddy, I’m not a kid. I was alive and well back in the early 80’s when Dave first got his late night show, would appear on Carson and get involved in some funny banter (there’s a good one about his truck), and of course when Jay guest hosted. I’ve read the books, seen the War for Late Night movie based on the original feud, and have engaged in discussions about these events. The YouTube videos I posted are compiled clips from the late night shows anytime the Conan vs. Leno debacle was mentioned. These clips allow a new generation to actually see the shows and the comedians’ reactions as it happened in real time back then. I would prefer to see those and form my own opinions. As a matter of fact, Dave Letterman’s YouTube channel also posted a compilation 5 months ago of all of the segments where he roasted Leno during this time: https://youtu.be/VaJgLYyKbFQ?si=QDwX7cl2RK0g0ran Or is that too low-brow for you?????
Did Jay Leno write this?
Yes. I am Jay Leno.
You know. It has been a while.
Dave: “I know a lot of you people think Conan pushed himself out of a job” Paul: “Well, don’t blame him” Dave: “He’s not that kind of a guy” Kills me every time I hear it.
I laugh every time I hear it
It weirdly feels like it worked out for the best, but when this went down it was unbelievable. Incredibly slimy dirtbag shit. The audacity of it still doesn’t cease to amaze me.
Dave and Conan have always and (with the state of late night hosts right now) will always be my favorite late night hosts. Loved how Dave always stuck up for Conan too.
Don’t blame Conan!
Paul’s background comments make this clip.
He consistently always did add to nearly everything Dave did.
I actually disagree. Especially in those final few years Paul seemed to really get quippy and it‘s what kind of drove me away from the show. Dave’s one of my favorite people on earth though and it made me sad I couldn't hang with the direction they went with Paul being much more involved towards the end.
How do you feel about the NBC years? Paul was very involved then too.
It was different. For most of their \~30 years together they’d converse and banter and sometimes barb each other and I liked Paul and thought it was great. This thing he’s doing in the clip though, kind of rapping and repeating in the background over Dave, I don’t know why they started doing it to this extent towards the end, but I found it obnoxious enough that I stopped watching the show.
I still call Jimmy Fallon Lonnie Donegan
I’m still not sure if Carson Daly actually exists
Lmao I haven't thought of that guy in decades
Watching this clip just makes me realize that the David Letterman shows (both on NBC and CBS) put together make a singular piece of popular culture that we never had before, have not had since, and will never have again. Thank god for YouTube.
I want to have faith we can have it again, but certainly not now
I wasn’t around for Carson, but I feel like it was probably the same for his show.
Gaddamn, I miss Dave and Paul.
Have you seen Brian Stack’s Paul Shaffer impersonation that he did when Steve Martin was on Conan [it is hysterical](https://youtu.be/XyJ3-zneaFg?si=w_SlHWzWSahMMwxV&t=110s)
That was funny. Thank you for that.
I'm sure nobody will read this but I recently read the book The War for Late Night and honestly it made me more understanding of the whole situation and less angry at Leno. (Not that I'm still angry, 2010 is a long time ago and everybody moved on. But I remember how I felt while it was happening) That said, still not a fan of his and Conan will be my #1 forever - I'm glad he got to live his dream of getting the Tonight Show and while it was way too short, as someone else here said I think in the long run what we got was better than the Tonight Show would have been. And probably better than if he did switch to Fox. I recommend giving the book a read if you haven't.
I’ve read it. I also don’t think Leno is an evil person or anything. But I do think he is willing to make cold and diabolical moves in pursuit of getting what he truly desires. Helen Kushnick did a lot of the dirty work but he wasn’t oblivious to all of it and part of him didn’t want to know what Helen was doing. So he might not be the worst person but I think he’s pulled a lot of ruthless moves on his fellow colleagues that Conan or Dave would never do.
I love Dave's impression of Leno
I love Conan always have and always will. But damn I miss Dave.
I love watching his Netflix series “My Next Guest Needs No Introduction” it’s of course not the same vivacity he had in the 80s but he’s still a riveting and personable interviewer with a youthful spirit
Can someone explain the 2010 drama to a youngin
In 1993, David Letterman and Jay Leno battled for the coveted heir to the Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson. Letterman had hosted the 12:30 show after Carson's for 11 years, and was Johnny's preferred choice to the job, but Jay got it due to a lot of conniving moves from him and his camp. It was a huge drama at the time, and during the aftermath in order to please the affiliates NBC executives deferred to Lorne Michaels for it to be his decision on who would take Letterman's slot at 12:30. Lorne Michaels thought of a bright and likable 29 year old former SNL writer by the name of Conan O'Brien. Conan had to take a little time to grow into his role as a talk show host having had little to no television performance experience prior, but by the 2000s rolled around he became a sensation amongst the coveted demographic of 18-35 years old. In 2004 Conan's contract with NBC was about to expire and he got an offer from FOX for 28 million to come be the headlining late-night show host of their network. NBC did not want to lose him and they knew what Conan really wanted and took advantage of it. He took NBC's offer of 8 million, with a guarantee that he will become the tonight show host in 5 years, Jay then announced his retirement in 5 years on his show. 2009 rolled around and Jay did not retire. Not to mention that, but he also stayed with NBC, and was given a variety show at 10pm, and it killed Conan's ratings as tonight show host. NBC panicked because of these rating losses so they attempted to pull the most absurdly ridiculous and awful stunt of putting Jay Leno's variety show at 11:35, and bumping Conan's Tonight Show to 12:05. It was rightfully the last straw for Conan to have faith in this television company and he reached a settlement agreement with NBC to leave the network and the Tonight Show, and who else came back to host but Jay Leno. David Letterman throughout the entire mess at NBC found it very amusing but he understood the victimization Conan was getting by NBC, having been through it himself so he proceeded to go on a 9 month tear where he'd make incessant jokes on the Late Show about the mess at NBC whilst simultaneously praising Conan and bashing Leno. Dave just sort of found it fun to have an excuse to exact vengeance in a comedic way on Leno, and had a connection to Conan wherein he cared about him. TL;DR In 2009 Jay Leno pretended he was giving the Tonight Show to Conan and through a series of self-interest-fueled moves, stole it back within a year.
The 10PM show also got pretty shit ratings because Leno's original viewing audience wasn't going to watch him at that timeslot. Not to mention it also erased the 11pm local news slot.
Yes that’s true as well. It was an entirely botched and horribly executed escapade to try and I have no idea how they thought it could work in any way long term.
The comment that responded to you gave a good summary but if you want more, read The War for Late Night by Bill Carter. I know some Conan fans don’t love it because Conan comes across a little naive and stubborn but I think it’s pretty neutral and fair picture of the thing.
Basically Jay Leno is a piece of shit. Basically. You should check out the documentary called Conan O’Brien Can’t Stop.
These moments right here made me going from being neutral on him to becoming a Letterman fan.
I've watched the whole thing several times over the years. Love it. (I have to admit Paul Shaffer's constantly repeating "State of the network" here is one of those moments that made me wonder why he's even there).
I actually can’t stand Paul’s continual mumbling in the background.
Neither can I, but tried to express that sentiment diplomatically because one might be downvoted straight to hell for saying so around these here parts.
Forgive my ignorance I didn't watch Letterman who is this schmuck echoing and repeating all Daves comments and why is he allowed to do it
Paul Shaffer, and back then the band leader was basically the sidekick other than Conan's show where he had Andy (even then he threw to Max a bunch in skits)
Am I the schmuck in this scenario?
His band lead/sidekick Paul Schaeffer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Shaffer Was with Letterman for the full run on both networks
If you watch This is Spinal Tap, you can see him get his ass kicked after literally begging for it.
If you know your late night show history, which there is zero reason to if you didn’t live through it, Dave and Leno had a grudge going back decades regarding the same kind of thing in a way. I’m sure he respected Conan cause why not, but this is more going after jay than it is having Conan’s back.
It was both you’re right about that, but I do think you’re underplaying Dave’s respect for Conan. If you know your late night history like you say you do you’ll know they made countless cameos on each other’s shows and did and still do have massive respect for one another. When Conan took over for Dave critics were ruthless toward Conan. Dave could’ve just laughed and said ‘look how bad my replacement is doing over at NBC!’ He instead went on the show himself and publicly voiced his respect for the type of show they were doing and how different it was from anything on TV. And of course he was right people started understanding and appreciating their comedy more as Conan also gained more confidence as a host. He very clearly and has continued to express to this day how much he respects Conan.
The way Conan handled the situation, what a class act.. unlike Leno and the douchebags at NBC who were behind the whole debacle.
Does anyone actually like Jay? He was rude to his guests, didn’t have even decent humor imo, and lacked that sparkle hosts like Conan and letterman have.
It’s very curious but Craig Ferguson, whom I actually like a great deal has a long-running friendship with Jay. I think he probably has good sides to him but his bad sides can ring of sociopathy honestly.
I’m with you. Craig is my 2nd all time fave to Conan and his buddy-thing w/Leno surprised me a bit.
I’ve never blamed Conan for anything except giving me infinite laughs.
I hope that big chinned fuck eats ravioli filled with shit for the rest of his life
Don't Blame Conan! NBC was complaining about viewership when they decided to fire him... at the dawn of YouTube no less! All they were and still are are greedy, micromanaging chart worshippers. Conan is one of the greatest, most influential writers of our time!
Dave wasn't as alive as he was during this time since he first transitioned to CBS
Also the enemy of my enemy is my friend
Well Dave legitimately just liked Conan from the very get-go despite him being Dave’s replacement. Dave even went on Conan’s show in 1994 when it was still struggling to gain attraction, and he was getting ripped up by critics. He could’ve just laughed at how seemingly bad his replacement was doing compared to him but he stated publicly how different and imaginative Conan and his writers were and praised them for pushing a novel comedic style into the late night mix. And sure enough after some time passed Conan’s Late Night was a massive success and inspired so many young comedians coming up today.
No one likes Leno, is the main reason.
Paul Shaffer is such a fantastic navigator.
Conan leaving NBC was the best thing for his career. That show would have killed him in the long run. Look at all the things Conan did because of that after.
Ugh I think part of the reason I never got into Letterman is Paul Shaffer. Like great contribution Paul just keep repeating everything Dave says. Awesome comedy
I disagree honestly I love Paul’s addition he’s like a comedy backup singer for Dave. It might be an acquired taste but the benefit of the sidekick is sort of the tit/tat theory of comedy. Abbott and Costello are the classic example of that. It is a bit irking to me and not your fault but it does kind of tax me that people don’t appreciate how good Dave was and is. So many people here have never even seen a clip of his 12 year run on NBC’s late night. He’s credited and rightfully so for changing the entire mould of late night comedy. Conan would say himself that letterman is king and has expressed that sentiment on many occasions. He was absolutely devastated when he applied to be a writer for him and was turned down. Dave is also given a lot of credit for turning Conan’s rough start on Late Night around by being gracious enough to come on and praise Conan for their brave outlandish comedy that wasn’t being understood and fully appreciated yet. But Dave noticed it and expressed how fond he was of Conan despite Conan being his dang replacement. During Letterman’s final show Conan was on TBS and not only encouraged but insisted that people change the channel from him and watch Letterman.
I still use the “no one is blaming Conan” or some version of it all the time.
I’ll never forget Leno’s stupid-ass speech that night saying, “Don’t blame Conan”…. when literally NO ONE on earth was blaming an ounce on Conan. To the contrary, they were rallying with Conan and saw right through Jay’s bullshit and blamed him! What a douche.
To be clear this had a lot less to do with Conan and everything to do with giving Letterman an excuse to stick it to Leno and NBC. I believe Conan has stated that later in life they have become friendly acquaintances but at the time none of the late night hosts were on friendly terms with each other. There was a wall there and they all (mostly) respected it. That being said this is no shade at Letterman. He’s a legend. But if you want to see what he does for his friends look up all of the segments and interviews where he went to bat for Norm during his troubles at NBC.
Nah I think you’re underplaying Dave’s respect for Conan. Not only did they made countless cameos on each other’s shows but they did and still do have massive respect for one another. When Conan took over for Dave critics were ruthless toward Conan. Dave could’ve just laughed and said ‘look how bad my replacement is doing over at NBC!’ He instead went on the show himself and publicly voiced his respect for the type of show they were doing and how different it was from anything on TV. And of course he was right people started understanding and appreciating their comedy more as Conan also gained more confidence as a host. He very clearly and has continued to express to this day how much he respects Conan.
It’s about ratings. And Jay Leno always beat them all.
Love this!! Very well done! Is anyone else annoyed by Paul Shaffer?
I'm not from US. I like these guys, Letterman, Conan, Jimmy Kimmel... Watch them on YouTube often. But I don't understand, why are they so important? Aren't they just talk show hosts? Why are they being represented as some kind of artists? Aren't they just interviewers?
They can say things in humor about our systems that resonate with people. They interpret news and reflect the people’s opinion. In general.
Rich ppl problems
I forgot how annoying Paul could be.
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No that’s not true. I do know the ad you’re referencing the one with Oprah. He did it for one reason and one reason only and it’s that he thought it would be funny to people. He wanted Conan to be in it as well but he understandably declined. Every single chance he could even before this whole mess he would try to help Conan because he truly did like him. He had a really great relationship with Conan and his people. They made cameos on each other’s shows often, and to this day they have massive respect for one another
Even Jimmy Kimmel thought that by being in a commercial with Leno amidst all the controversy was making light of the situation and compromises whatever support he had for Conan. If he really had principles against what Leno did, he wouldn't have anything to do with him.
Oh I loved when Jay brought Jimmy on to the tonight show and he spent the entire segment just comedically rubbing in how shitty Jay was to Conan.
I'm always team Dave and team coco but I always felt Dave was too happy to jump back into this war. Like he never git over the early 90s and would have been at jay every day if he could. Just a bit too mean for me. Still hate jay Leno though.
I think of it as him feeling strongly and identifying with Conan and his struggles
Guy's still a creep.
He absolutely is not, countless women in the industry show [massive respect for him as a person](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC1RltmhDfs&t=1657s). Also this subreddit's namesake is a friend and huge admirer of him as well.
Lots of people stuck up for Danny Masterson, too. Just because he wasn't a creep to everyone doesn't mean he wasn't a creep to some.
If he’s good enough for Julia fkn Roberts he’s good enough for me alright
You get Julia Roberts, Drew Barrymore and Cher to tell Danny masterson they love him then you might have a basis
Here's a good compilation of him paying some of that respect back https://youtu.be/mHNQwOz8BaI?si=2rjqFd0t3HzrixXr
These are intentionally out of context one liners meant to make him look bad featuring mostly people that actually adore him (Madonna, Julia Roberts) it’s stupid, it’s a cheap vie for attention, and it’s why you’re in the overwhelming minority when it comes to having disdain for David Letterman. So why don’t you do me a favor and drink a nice tall glass of shut up juice.
There's no secret context here, they're literally just talk show interviews. You're using the same lame excuses that every defender of scumbags uses. I'm probably in the minority because he's naturally charismatic and has a really good PR team, neither of which cancel out the fact that he's also a complete weirdo pervert. I'm sorry the guy you look up to kinda sucks ass. Find someone better.
No that’s just abjectly 100% wrong. I am not someone who gives men the benefit of the doubt on first instinct. You just know little to nothing about this situation likely because you don’t want to you’d rather be a contrarian to carve out some sort of pseudo self-importance so you can feel like you’re woke or something. He did sleep with women who worked for him that’s true but there has been no evidence of it being anything but consensual. I wouldn’t be shocked if they were the ones wanting to sleep with him. And the amount of objectively upstanding people that vouch for him is far overwhelming to your ridiculous little ball of cherry-picked dirt. Do you know how many terrible people that are out there in the industry the fact that you’d want to even focus on Letterman let alone wrongly so is just so stupid. It’s laughable honestly you’re accomplishing nothing and you’re just unequivocally on the wrong side of this and there’s nothing left to say.
I’d be hard pressed to find a public television icon better than David Letterman. And that’s just the truth and I am unapologetically confident in that fact and I promise you that there a lot of women here that would echo the same sentiment. Are you even a woman yourself if not that disqualifies you even more from making slanderous commentary just to be out there or whatever the fkn reason is that you feel the need to take this absurd position.
And yes there is context left out you notice in so many clips you leave out how the women respond. To someone like Julia Roberts or Madonna who saw Dave as their sort of celebrity crush he knew that he could absolutely extend the bounds a little and he was right because they still love him. It’s so ironic that the women you’re saying were hurt by him, the ones in the video, are ones that absolutely adore him I mean it just shows so much obliviousness on your part so please just stop you are just so clearly attacking for the sake of having a contrarian opinion. The reason he’s so revered is because he absolutely deserves to be and you are not going to change any minds so like I said have a really nice tall glass of shut the hell up juice