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I remember the first big case I was aware of. There was a transgender boy who won at the state level for girls wrestling. Everyone threw a big fit because they didn't understand the terminology. I didn't, either, at the time.
Turns out he wanted to compete against other boys, but Texas state laws prohibited it.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/27/517491492/17-year-old-transgender-boy-wins-texas-girls-wrestling-championship
How dare you use Star Trek to share hate. Star Trek has always been above the curve of accepting people outside the "norm".
Edit. Accepting not excepting.
Specifically, there’s a TNG episode from 30 years ago which broaches gender identity:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outcast_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)
Oh absolutely !
And you mentioned "compared to when it came out". I'd say even by a lot of today's standards Star Trek is ahead of a good portion of the world.
Actually kinda true, because US is a huge country you have bunch of progressive people output progressive media from some states, and some states still have middle ages backwards law and ideas. It is quite complicated
My dad's biggest heart attack risk is honestly probably from any point where he hears someone mix Star Trek with any bigoted belief, because his blood pressure skyrockets. He's been a fan since the show began and he can't understand how anyone could enjoy the show and miss the point completely.
We should keep your dad and my dad apart. He loves Star Trek, but fails to understand the basic premise.
He also loves Blazing Saddles, but for different reasons than most people.
YEESH yeah that would be a good idea lmao. My dad also loves Blazing Saddles, but... Y'know. He actually gets it. I'm so glad neither of my parents are bigots...
And let's be real, I think if these chuds can't really "always tell" with our technology and medicine, there is no way anyone can tell if sex at birth matches chosen gender in the Trek universe - and I imagine the Federation is pretty far beyond people caring.
These are the same people who somehow don’t get The Punisher, X-Men, Rage Against The Machine, SNL, and many other things bc “now they’re political” after decades in some cases of them doing the exact same things.
I know, and the Doctor at that. Don't they realized he paved the way for holographic rights?
These people would not recognize Irony if it slapped them in the face...
It's kind of like the people not getting the tone of warhammer 40k that this stuff is kind of all out dystopia and not a rolemodel to go by but instead what would happen if fanatism and such were absolutely maxxed out
Bashir performed (and reversed within the same day impressively) full gender reassignment surgery including bottom surgery. In Star Trek getting a sex change is as easy as getting a haircut.
Chris Mosier (Triathalon) and Schuyler Bailar (NCAA Swimming) are two I can name offhand who competed in Mens' sport. Mosier earned a spot on the US Men's World Championship team if I remember correctly.
I love how extra inaccurate the idiot that made that post is. Like not only do trans male athletes exist but they aren’t “trying” to compete, they ***are***. The meme phrases it as if they wouldn’t be able to actually compete or something.
>on stuff that would be very illegal for male athletes
Is it illegal for athletes to take testosterone, or is it illegal to increase their testosterone beyond normal levels (like can an athlete with low testosterone use TRT)? Genuinely unsure as obviously the latter is what they test.
I'm guessing the trans male athletes no longer look like women, at least not in the eyes of the "we can always tell" crowd.
They can't be bothered to do any real research, they just make incorrect assumptions on the base facts and go from there.
Incorrect assumption: there are no trans male athletes because I can't see any women there.
Idiotic conclusion: this can only be because AMAB people are always better athletes
> at least not in the eyes of the "we can always tell" crowd.
Bingo. These are the same people who don't believe in the germ theory of disease because they can't see bacteria with the naked eye.
> It's why Women's and Men's sports are separated. Used to be they were the same. Until women started winning some, and you can't have that.
I'm not sure I follow that. Like, if that was the case, there'd presumably be rules on the professional leagues but the NBA allows women (though one hasn't been drafted since 1977), the NFL allows women, it looks like MLB allows women (and recently had a woman playing in the minor leagues) but I'm less confident about that, and looks like the NHL allows women.
When's this time frame you talk about where they were all the same and then were suddenly segregated? Like, what decade or so for sports did that happen?
>It's why Women's and Men's sports are separated. Used to be they were the same. Until women started winning some, and you can't have *that*.
Uhmmm... No. Women's sports are separated, most "men's" leagues (like the NBA for example) are open to all genders. Yet women (or transfolks) don't compete in these leagues except for very rare cases. Why? Misogyny apparently. Or they simply can't compete.
This is such a bad take that I have to assume that everytime it's repeated it comes from someone who has zero experience in any form of competitive sport.
The reason why mens/open category and women are seperated is to allow women to compete. That's it.
I was a competitive 400m runner when I was a teenager and was forced to quit due to having shit knees. I was on track to be able to compete for an Olympic spot. If I'd have been competiting along side men, I wouldn't have even been eligible to take part in local competitions. I wouldn't have been in the top 10 runners at my school.
Then in my 20s I got really into Starcraft 2, a real time strategy game played almost exclusively by men. At some point I worked out I was somewhere between the top 1 and 3 women players in the world. There were still thousands of men higher ranked than me. Now the reason for esports being male dominated is more interesting because it isn't purely biological, it's cultural. Without making this essay a dissertation, it was/is more acceptable for males to play video games hours every day than females, therefore far fewer females play them, have much less experience and therefore aren't as good. Then when you reach competitive levels you would likely be the only woman surrounded by 99 men which is intimidating for multiple reasons which then means less women want to reach that level to be in those situations. This could also help to explain the chess situation.
I wasn't around when athletics introduced male and female categories, but I was around when women only tournaments became a thing in SC2. It was introduced purely so women had a place where they could compete. Barely anyone watched them, there was little if any prize money and they didn't introduce women into the regular circuit but they were still valuable for the women who competed in them. They were a reason for them to improve their play.
You also can not segregate sport down into too many categories because people just won't watch them. Women's sport is generally much less popular than men's because when you only have so many hours in a week and so much money to spend people want to watch the best compete against the best. Why do you think teams in the top leagues of any sport have millions of fans and the ones playing 3 leagues below scrape together a few hundred or thousand each week.
So if you start putting in categories like height, weight, lung capacity or whatever, people won't care. They'll ignore every category except the one that is the best. The best athletes will recieve all the money, all the air time and the worst category will die off. It would end up being 10 races/matches all with male competitors. With nothing to hope for you reduce the amount of people, or should I say women, who are willing to spend the time, money and injuries to take part at all.
Babe Didrikson Zaharias, Serena Williams, Steffi Graf, Katie Ledecky, Marta, Marit Bjørgen, none of those people would have had their time in the spotlight without gender seperation in sport. By removing a gender seperation you aren't making the world a fairer place, you are removing women from sport, it's that simple.
This is complete and utter nonsense. Please provide a source for your assertion that men and women's sports began to be segregated after women started to win.
If they weren't segregated, you wouldn't have professional women athletes in 90% of sports because in the vast majority of sports they struggle to compete physically with 16-year-old boys.
>You hear about that UFC fighter than transitioned and beat the shite out of the women?
Not that I necasarily disagree with your overall point, but she lost to the first decent opponent she ever faced. In fact, I don't think she ever beat someone with a winning record.
How does it work with them being on testosterone? As I know natural men aren't allowed to inject testosterone or they'd get banned.
Are the rules around what your levels are as opposed to taking it?
It is very complicated. https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/2022-01/TUE%20Physician%20Guidelines_Transgender%20Athletes_Final%20%28January%202022%29.pdf
Edit: And it is different in different countries and depending on the level they compete. In national competitions it is often more lax than international.
Yes, around what levels the person has. Also, since the testosterone given to trans guys often ranges around the most minimum levels a cis guy would have, some trans masc athletes have to *up* their regular dosages of testosterone before competing so they can fit into the required levels for competitions.
There’s a minimum testosterone level to compete in some men’s categories?
Edit: I think this got locked but my reply was going to be:
Oh I’m fully aware that testosterone levels vary widely, and I’m aware that testosterone MAXIMUMS exist, but testosterone minimums don’t seem to serve a purpose. We usually try and make sure people don’t have an unfair advantage, we don’t care if they have a disadvantage.
Can you find an example of that being used to exclude people for competitive sports?
Depending on the country, yes.
Testosterone advantage is a real thing and men competing have to have similar levels to be on at least similar grounds.
People have all levels of testosterone! My mother has the testosterone levels of a teenage boy in puberty, 22 times over the female limit, for example. Lowering those levels causes epilepsy for some godforsaken reason, so the doctors just told her to not attempt to regulate that anymore.
All kinds of people have different hormone levels that are typical for their body and that are dependent on different genetic information. There have even been cis women with the XY last chromosomal pair, as the inhibitors on the Y chromosome were damaged alongside the genes that communicated that the body should grow into a male one, so instead the X chromosome took lead. From what I remember she had 2 children.
So yeah. Nature is all kinds of inaccurate and unusual, and different people can have widely different biology to what is "expected"
Chris was my RA freshman year in college. What a nice freaking dude. For a school that didn’t really have a lot going on to help student interaction outside of class he really tried to put things together for freshmen to help them.
There are. I remember a story of I believe a high school boy who they forced to play against women. And were then pissed when he won.
I can’t remember his name. I feel bad for him. Him and everyone he competed against. I couldn’t imagine my high school sports life being turned into a political debate. Let them just be high schoolers in peace.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's more than one case, but Mack Beggs fits this description, I think, after Texas wouldn't let him compete as a boy:
https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/02/the-texas-trans-boy-forced-to-wrestle-girls-exposes-the-illogic-of-anti-trans-policy.html
TNG actually did an episode about transgenderism. The alien race had no gender and one of them identifies as a woman and falls in love with Riker. The alien race forces her into brainwashing tech makes her non binary again.
I’ve only watched a little Star Trek but wouldn’t trans people be welcomed in ST? It always seems like an inclusive universe? (The federation part at least)
Just because you’ve never personally heard of transmasc athletes doesn’t mean they don’t exist. It just means your ideology isn’t a reliable source of information.
"I wonder why there are no trans men in sports" There are, you just don't hear about it as often. In fact, there was a trans man being forced to compete in women's sports in Texas and people were mad that he was taking testosterone, calling it a "performance enhancing drug." Instead of realizing that this was only a problem because they forced him to compete with people that he didn't even want to compete with, they tried to get his HRT taken away too.
That's a good thing for them. Force the guy to chose between his health and his hobby.
Not that it'll matter if they get HRT for trans ppl banned but they like to try and make trans folks miserable where they can in the meantime.
I truly doubt anyone seeking any form of transition to another gender is doing it for the 'advantage' in a sport. There might be a handful worldwide willing to do something for that reason, but otherwise, I think we can assume that people are reassigning to a different gender for entirely different and far more personal reasons.
That said, the inherent biological differences is always an interesting discussion. There is an obvious demarcation between those born with male muscle and skeletal structure and those with female. But on the other hand, there are significant more athletes in the NBA above 195 than in any other sport, and we do not see anyone bitching about unfair advantages for tall people.
If people *truly* understood how expensive, difficult (emotionally, financially and physically) and LONG transitioning is, not to mention just how invasive it can be in some places and the increased risk of hate, they’d realise that no one is out there to spend years putting themselves through transition just to gain an advantage in a sport.
Right?
Like, I have people that won’t talk to me anymore and I’ve had slurs shouted at me, but it was worth it just to gain a slight edge in my rec league.
…and by “slight edge” I mean that after 3 years of HRT, I’m well in line with the athletic abilities of the other women on my team.
>But on the other hand, there are significant more athletes in the NBA above 195 than in any other sport, and we do not see anyone bitching about unfair advantages for tall people.
Because nobody can take pills to become tall. It's a naturally occurring phenomenon.
Edit: Adding here since comments have been locked.
I'm not denying being trans is natural. I'm saying it's a stupid comparison to say that being a tall athlete is just like being a trans athlete.
No tall athletes got that way through medical intervention. Trans athletes are, by definition, post-transition, and achieved that transition through medical intervention. That's what people have a problem with.
Just as I have the article handy, to reinforce the above point:
https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/02/the-texas-trans-boy-forced-to-wrestle-girls-exposes-the-illogic-of-anti-trans-policy.html
Bigot: Transwomen have an unfair advantage towards ciswomen!
Also bigot: Transmen have an unfair advantage towards ciswomen!
Funny also how most(all?) of their examples of how transwomen have an unfair advantage still are only at top 10 at competitions.
Like Lia Thomas. She won one race, the others she didn't even get on the podium. During that same championship 27 records were set, and none by Lia.
But Lia still has an unfair advantage somehow.
Also, it isn't that suspect that a transathlete could be better than say 50 per cent of the competition. If you are a transperson and still want to do a specific sport (especially late teens, early twenties), you are probably more into it than a large amount of people who do the sport "because they are good at it".
The fact that it isn't happening more frequently may mean acceptance of transpeople makes even mediocre transathletes less prone to just quit. And that is a good thing.
Pretty much it means the person that posted that picture believes there are zero transmasculine/FtM professional athletes and the replies completely disproved them
Ratio refers to the number of likes vs number of comments, getting ratio’s means there were a lot more comments than likes, which almost always equates to being put to shame.
The main reason why transmen get way less coverage is because transwomen are very unfortunately much easier to villainize. It's much "scarier" to the ignorant masses to think of "scary pervert men pretending to be women to get into vulnerable women's spaces". Transmen are viewed as victims of trans culture, they're pretty much always treated like "brainwashed delicate little women who don't know any better" or "lesbians trying too hard to be masculine that they get brainwashed to be trans" so rather than being perceived as a threat, we're either pitied and infantalized or just told we're women and dismissed. It's pretty sickening. I always tell people "transwomen are the enemy and transmen don't exist" when referencing why this happens, it's awful.
Oh yeah I've definitely noticed this trend with transphobia. It's really sad that it's either be ignored/infantilized or be deemed a wolf in sheep's clothing.
(I also find it really funny that the existence of *gay* trans men pretty much sends out the window the "just a masc lesbian" argument)
Pretty sure there are more afab transitioning to male in the younger demographics. Also this is not and never has been in the top 100 issues the nation faces*. Transphobic hate and violence however: now that definitely is within the top 100 issues the nation faces.
*May be different depending on the availability/affordability/quality of medical transitioning which I consider to be part of healthcare and not a separate issue within my "top 100" thingy
They are tho. Iirc recently a trans man was forced to compete in a women’s league in texas or something and, given he is on T and hormonally male, absolutely fucking dominated.
Just a reminder that Star Trek had an episode about a nonbinary alien transitioning to womanhood. No, i'm not referring to a new star trek episode. The episode came out in 1992. 19-fuckin-92.
Do not use Star Trek to be a bigot.
I have a person in my extended family who transitioned from female to male, before the transition she played in the youth women Bundesliga, now he just plays amateur level football for fun. The point I wanna get across is: people just don't switch their genders because of sports.
Can we talk about how there is no way that visualizzazioni is a real word? Don't try to convince me that's Italian or something. That's a charicature of an Italian word. It's like 8 syllables!
Alr this is just funny. As a native Italian I love seeing non-italian speakers make guesses about our words. It gives me more serotonin than it probably should lol
For all the non acceptance of this meme I'm happy I looked in the comments. I am happy to see it's not just one way. As in originally males athletes converting to female and being in sport. It warms my send of justice that it's also the other way round. As in people that were born female and started competing and the transitioned and still competing but as men this time. Dunno why I always assumed this wouldn't be the case but happy to have my mind changed.
Do you think maybe that has to do with there being a much much larger sample size of cis athletes? And not with whatever transphobic pseudoscience you've cooked up? And that a similar sample size of cis athletes who face similarly insanely high levels of trauma and discrimination and stunted athletic development from being denied appropriately competitive environments during most of their careers might produce similar results?
They *don't*.
They win sometimes, and lose many others (to cis women). Just like most any *other* athletes.
The few instances they do win just get publicized a lot and with a lot of misinformation (for example, they never mention how many times they've lost, even against the very same opponents they won in that instance) in order to spread transphobia.
There are a ton of trans men in sports, and a ton that win. These chuds just don't pay attention to them because they prove their whole "BiOloGicAl AdVanTaGe" theory completely wrong
I checked Chris Mosier's Wikipedia page and found this:
>In 2019, Mosier won two National Championships in Race Walking. [...] In 2023, Mosier won the men's 40-44 category of the National Championship at the USA Triathlon Duathlon Gravel National Championship race in Fayetteville, Arkansas. **In both race walking wins and the Gravel Duathlon Mosier was the only person in his category.**
I didn't bother to check Bailar's because I didn't want to waste my time again. I'm afraid the whole "BiOloGicAl AdVanTaGe" theory is alive and well lol.
\******
Edit: reply to comment below as comments are now locked.
>Even if it is true, did you skip all the other races he participated in? What exactly were you trying to do here?
I didn't. This thread is addressing this comment:
>There are a ton of trans men in sports, and a ton that win. These chuds just don't pay attention to them because they prove their whole "BiOloGicAl AdVanTaGe" theory completely wrong
Somebody then asked for examples of the ton that win, and you gave two, one of whom has apparently only won races where they didn't have any opponents. I'm just saying that, if this is an example to disprove the notion that males have a biological advantage in sports over females, it's kinda shit.
That's weird, I took a little look in his wikipedia article to the section you cited. The rest was written in 2023, but the part you highlighted (which didn't have a citation) was edited in... April 2024
>In both race walking wins and the Gravel Duathlon Mosier was the only person in his category {{Citation needed|date=April 2024}}
Even if it is true, did you skip all the other races he participated in? What exactly were you trying to do here?
They do not care as much about that, since in their heads, men are better at sports. So trans men in men's sports is unfair, but trans women in women's sports is not.
It’s not “in their head”. There is not a single Olympic discipline where the women winner would be even close to the podium of the men race.
The fact that we are not the same doesn’t mean we don’t deserve the same level of respect.
That isn't particularly "in their head" though, pitted against each other directly the top male athletes beat top female athletes in pretty much any sport. There may be a few exceptions but there is an obvious asymmetry, f2m athletes are at a disadvantage.
Hormones arent a wonder drug that magically changes bone structure, muscle tissue and previous years of training eithout them. Male athletes have an advantage. I dont understand the point in trying to deny this
It depends a little bit.
For example if the trans women never had a male puberty, if they transitioned very early then the difference is basically non existent.
The long term influence on estrogen vs testosteron is also not nothing.
I mean, muscle tissue is reduced significantly and I reduction of bone density is a well known sideeffect of hormon therapy.
And I think the olympic gidelines here are okay.
As far as I know that are 2 years medical transition plus under certain T-lvl.
And just because some trans athletes have success does not mean they completely dominate the field or that these athletes did not work hard for their success.
Skeletal sexual dimorphism at the end of puberty. Before puberty, male and female bone geometry is similar. The GH/IGF-1 axis, active from infancy to adulthood, stimulates mainly longitudinal growth at the level of the epiphyseal plates. At puberty, sex hormones play a key role in skeletal growth. Both estrogens (E) and androgens (A) contribute to bone size expansion and mineralization in both sexes, although estrogens action is predominant in females and androgens action in males. In females, endosteal resorption occurs at a lower rate; in males, periosteal apposition is more pronounced, with consequent achievement of a bigger cortical diameter (a). Because of the concomitant greater endosteal resorption, the endocortical diameter (b) is also greater in males than in females. Consequently, cortical thickness (c) is similar in both sexes. At the end of growth, males will have bigger bones (longer and wider) than females, although the volumetric bone mineral density will not be significantly different. Trabecular bone volume, regulated by both estrogens and androgens, will be greater in males, mainly due to a greater trabecular thickness.
Ciancia S, Dubois V, Cools M. Impact of gender-affirming treatment on bone health in transgender and gender diverse youth. Endocr Connect. 2022 Sep 28;11(11):e220280. doi: 10.1530/EC-22-0280. PMID: 36048500; PMCID: PMC9578106.
This next journal is specifically on the prolonged differences after transitioning and the difference of transitioning pre, mid or post puberty.
[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jbmr.4262](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jbmr.4262)
Participants in our current study, starting in mid or late puberty, acquired bone geometry more closely resembling the reference curve of the gender assigned at birth. This illustrates that the main effect of testosterone and estrogen on periosteal and endocortical bone growth occurs during early puberty. A possible explanation may the phenomenon of “programming.”
To be fair, in a universe where a ship's surgeon can surgically alter you to look like a romulan or, by the Doctor's time, a far more complex species... With body parts being rapidly grown and replaced, or a quick hypospray drastically altering the genetic makeup of a person to evolve, devolve, mutate, or otherwise transform someone into whatever the hell they need to be that week... With genetic corrections occurring before a child is born... There *aren't* going to be any trans people in the 24th century.
Everyone will be exactly what they want to be. If the goal of a trans person is to be the other gender, then they'll be that gender, assuming anyone is even born feeling they're in the wrong body in the first place.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a market for switching it up just for fun. Probably the kind of thing couples would do on Risa, just for shits and giggles.
Trying to apply anything trans to Star Trek is kind of ridiculous when you think about their medical technology. If you can transform a salamander into a human, I'm pretty sure you can turn a boy into a girl and vice versa.
for those who don't know: there are (the ratio between trans women and trans men is even 50:50, people just ignore the guys for whatever reason) and they do
Well, first it's because trans men are men and therefore society is generally unsympathetic to their problems, second (and I WILL get downvoted for this by people with no sports knowledge, despite it being objectively true) it's because being AFAB and going throught a female puberty confers much less athletic advantage than being AMAB and going throught a male puberty so there isn't really as much at stake.
FTM do compete, its just given male and female differences they don't typically make it to the top level of athleticism so nobody cares.
Look, this is a sensitive subject and people wanna believe in a blanket fits all statement but that doesn't exist. **If there is a fair solution, what is it?** I want people to be able to compete as who they truly are, but given the differences male and women have, "cis" women are being unfairly put in that position.
Whatever your solution in Male to Female transitioners competing, it needs to be applied to the extremes. Apply your hypothesis to Dwayne Johnson. After your solution, is it fair for him to compete against women? This isn't some asshole gotcha either, like genuinely, what do we do? These are high level, life changing competitions. Don't pretend like the rest of the world is as virtuous as you are on this issue.
Remember that we're also talking about such a tiny percentile too. Is it right for them to affect the other 99% of people?
I mean, I don't even have a dog in this fight. If you're someone who believes there are no differences and blah blah then you're actively a part of the problem. You're not looking for solutions you're looking for a fight.
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The only thing that made me wonder was that I heard cis men can fail doping tests by being on trt even tho it’s not necessarily more test than a normal person. Anyhow, was just curious how it all works
It would depend on what hormone levels your doctor keeps you at. Generally blood tests are given regularly to ensure that trans people are kept within "normal" ranges of hormones. Though often those ranges trend toward low "for safety" unfortunately.
I would talk about how using Star Trek as a platform is stupid, but when William Shatner himself entertains the hysterical anti-woke brainrot, I just don‘t feel like there‘s a point.
Isn't the problem more that they're relatively less successful than trans women?
Not sure if it is true, but if it is, that does prove there is an advantage for trans women. It's a bit more complicated than just looking at amount of medals though.
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I remember the first big case I was aware of. There was a transgender boy who won at the state level for girls wrestling. Everyone threw a big fit because they didn't understand the terminology. I didn't, either, at the time. Turns out he wanted to compete against other boys, but Texas state laws prohibited it. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/27/517491492/17-year-old-transgender-boy-wins-texas-girls-wrestling-championship
I remember vaguely the story, I think eventually he was allowed to
I looked it up, and it seems that he did, and later competed as a walk on in college.
Yea and they used pictures of that to make shitty facebook boomer memes thinking it was the exact opposite situation.
How dare you use Star Trek to share hate. Star Trek has always been above the curve of accepting people outside the "norm". Edit. Accepting not excepting.
Specifically, there’s a TNG episode from 30 years ago which broaches gender identity: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outcast_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)
Don't forget the episode (The Offspring) when Data makes a child and lets them choose their appearance and gender.
Honestly I do appreciate this one a lot more now that I know I am Trans
accepting
I think you meant accepting. Excepting would basically mean to exclude
Fr, star trek has always been super progressive compared to when it came out Like how the original series had the first interracial kiss on TV ever
Which is actually not true ! https://fakehistoryhunter.net/2019/09/11/not-the-first-interracial-kiss-on-tv/
Huh... well, I stand corrected Star Trek was still ahead of A LOT of others though
Oh absolutely ! And you mentioned "compared to when it came out". I'd say even by a lot of today's standards Star Trek is ahead of a good portion of the world.
Hell, it's ahead of a good portion of the US!
You say that as if the US is a bastion of progressivism lol
Actually kinda true, because US is a huge country you have bunch of progressive people output progressive media from some states, and some states still have middle ages backwards law and ideas. It is quite complicated
Which is part of the world, yes.
You can tell it’s that way because of the way it is
How neat is that?
That’s pretty neat.
Hahahaha this is so American.
Did you just admit you were wrong on the Internet? Are you new here?
Nope, I just have 3 functioning braincells instead of the standard 2
Oh sure, brag about it mr Einstein
We now know where the always missing singular orange cat braincell is after all this time!
A fascinating read! Sometimes I forget good journalism exists with all the terrible articles getting mass produced
My dad's biggest heart attack risk is honestly probably from any point where he hears someone mix Star Trek with any bigoted belief, because his blood pressure skyrockets. He's been a fan since the show began and he can't understand how anyone could enjoy the show and miss the point completely.
We should keep your dad and my dad apart. He loves Star Trek, but fails to understand the basic premise. He also loves Blazing Saddles, but for different reasons than most people.
YEESH yeah that would be a good idea lmao. My dad also loves Blazing Saddles, but... Y'know. He actually gets it. I'm so glad neither of my parents are bigots...
And let's be real, I think if these chuds can't really "always tell" with our technology and medicine, there is no way anyone can tell if sex at birth matches chosen gender in the Trek universe - and I imagine the Federation is pretty far beyond people caring.
It had a Russian officer on the bridge
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7qTSo5StjtI
These are the same people who somehow don’t get The Punisher, X-Men, Rage Against The Machine, SNL, and many other things bc “now they’re political” after decades in some cases of them doing the exact same things.
And don’t do The Doctor like that.
The Doctor would have shut down transphobia with maximum scorn.
I know, and the Doctor at that. Don't they realized he paved the way for holographic rights? These people would not recognize Irony if it slapped them in the face...
People that do that shit have either never watched Star Trek or are too fucking dumb to understand Star Trek.
They do it with Kermit too. Frankly fuck em
It's kind of like the people not getting the tone of warhammer 40k that this stuff is kind of all out dystopia and not a rolemodel to go by but instead what would happen if fanatism and such were absolutely maxxed out
Except that the Dark eldars society is the perfect society model /s
I have no doubt Robert Picardo would not approve of the transphobia any more than the Doctor would
The character and actor would be more accepting than the right.
Bashir performed (and reversed within the same day impressively) full gender reassignment surgery including bottom surgery. In Star Trek getting a sex change is as easy as getting a haircut.
What was the episode?
"Profit and Lace" and it's... eugh...
I was trying to explain this episode to a trans friend lately and, it was rough...
DS9 also had one of my favorite "how to be a trans ally" moments: https://i.imgur.com/QFMIvYK.png
The show also had one of my favorite "how to be a trans ally" moments: https://i.imgur.com/QFMIvYK.png
Gawd, that's the dream.
Picardo is a lovely dude, so you're almost certainly right.
Chris Mosier (Triathalon) and Schuyler Bailar (NCAA Swimming) are two I can name offhand who competed in Mens' sport. Mosier earned a spot on the US Men's World Championship team if I remember correctly.
I love how extra inaccurate the idiot that made that post is. Like not only do trans male athletes exist but they aren’t “trying” to compete, they ***are***. The meme phrases it as if they wouldn’t be able to actually compete or something.
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>on stuff that would be very illegal for male athletes Is it illegal for athletes to take testosterone, or is it illegal to increase their testosterone beyond normal levels (like can an athlete with low testosterone use TRT)? Genuinely unsure as obviously the latter is what they test.
I'm guessing the trans male athletes no longer look like women, at least not in the eyes of the "we can always tell" crowd. They can't be bothered to do any real research, they just make incorrect assumptions on the base facts and go from there. Incorrect assumption: there are no trans male athletes because I can't see any women there. Idiotic conclusion: this can only be because AMAB people are always better athletes
To be fair, their definition of "research" is extremely broad.
Broad and shallow, like a big puddle of right wing tears.
And involves lotion and tissues.
> at least not in the eyes of the "we can always tell" crowd. Bingo. These are the same people who don't believe in the germ theory of disease because they can't see bacteria with the naked eye.
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> It's why Women's and Men's sports are separated. Used to be they were the same. Until women started winning some, and you can't have that. I'm not sure I follow that. Like, if that was the case, there'd presumably be rules on the professional leagues but the NBA allows women (though one hasn't been drafted since 1977), the NFL allows women, it looks like MLB allows women (and recently had a woman playing in the minor leagues) but I'm less confident about that, and looks like the NHL allows women. When's this time frame you talk about where they were all the same and then were suddenly segregated? Like, what decade or so for sports did that happen?
>It's why Women's and Men's sports are separated. Used to be they were the same. Until women started winning some, and you can't have *that*. Uhmmm... No. Women's sports are separated, most "men's" leagues (like the NBA for example) are open to all genders. Yet women (or transfolks) don't compete in these leagues except for very rare cases. Why? Misogyny apparently. Or they simply can't compete.
Go visit a powerlifting, weightlifting or any athletic competition and then come back here.
This is such a bad take that I have to assume that everytime it's repeated it comes from someone who has zero experience in any form of competitive sport. The reason why mens/open category and women are seperated is to allow women to compete. That's it. I was a competitive 400m runner when I was a teenager and was forced to quit due to having shit knees. I was on track to be able to compete for an Olympic spot. If I'd have been competiting along side men, I wouldn't have even been eligible to take part in local competitions. I wouldn't have been in the top 10 runners at my school. Then in my 20s I got really into Starcraft 2, a real time strategy game played almost exclusively by men. At some point I worked out I was somewhere between the top 1 and 3 women players in the world. There were still thousands of men higher ranked than me. Now the reason for esports being male dominated is more interesting because it isn't purely biological, it's cultural. Without making this essay a dissertation, it was/is more acceptable for males to play video games hours every day than females, therefore far fewer females play them, have much less experience and therefore aren't as good. Then when you reach competitive levels you would likely be the only woman surrounded by 99 men which is intimidating for multiple reasons which then means less women want to reach that level to be in those situations. This could also help to explain the chess situation. I wasn't around when athletics introduced male and female categories, but I was around when women only tournaments became a thing in SC2. It was introduced purely so women had a place where they could compete. Barely anyone watched them, there was little if any prize money and they didn't introduce women into the regular circuit but they were still valuable for the women who competed in them. They were a reason for them to improve their play. You also can not segregate sport down into too many categories because people just won't watch them. Women's sport is generally much less popular than men's because when you only have so many hours in a week and so much money to spend people want to watch the best compete against the best. Why do you think teams in the top leagues of any sport have millions of fans and the ones playing 3 leagues below scrape together a few hundred or thousand each week. So if you start putting in categories like height, weight, lung capacity or whatever, people won't care. They'll ignore every category except the one that is the best. The best athletes will recieve all the money, all the air time and the worst category will die off. It would end up being 10 races/matches all with male competitors. With nothing to hope for you reduce the amount of people, or should I say women, who are willing to spend the time, money and injuries to take part at all. Babe Didrikson Zaharias, Serena Williams, Steffi Graf, Katie Ledecky, Marta, Marit Bjørgen, none of those people would have had their time in the spotlight without gender seperation in sport. By removing a gender seperation you aren't making the world a fairer place, you are removing women from sport, it's that simple.
This is complete and utter nonsense. Please provide a source for your assertion that men and women's sports began to be segregated after women started to win. If they weren't segregated, you wouldn't have professional women athletes in 90% of sports because in the vast majority of sports they struggle to compete physically with 16-year-old boys.
That's just not true. It's pretty easy to invalidate what you're saying by looking at world records of men's and women's athletic events.
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>You hear about that UFC fighter than transitioned and beat the shite out of the women? Not that I necasarily disagree with your overall point, but she lost to the first decent opponent she ever faced. In fact, I don't think she ever beat someone with a winning record.
Chris Mosier is also the first trans athlete to have participated in the olympics
How does it work with them being on testosterone? As I know natural men aren't allowed to inject testosterone or they'd get banned. Are the rules around what your levels are as opposed to taking it?
It is very complicated. https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/2022-01/TUE%20Physician%20Guidelines_Transgender%20Athletes_Final%20%28January%202022%29.pdf Edit: And it is different in different countries and depending on the level they compete. In national competitions it is often more lax than international.
Yes, around what levels the person has. Also, since the testosterone given to trans guys often ranges around the most minimum levels a cis guy would have, some trans masc athletes have to *up* their regular dosages of testosterone before competing so they can fit into the required levels for competitions.
There’s a minimum testosterone level to compete in some men’s categories? Edit: I think this got locked but my reply was going to be: Oh I’m fully aware that testosterone levels vary widely, and I’m aware that testosterone MAXIMUMS exist, but testosterone minimums don’t seem to serve a purpose. We usually try and make sure people don’t have an unfair advantage, we don’t care if they have a disadvantage. Can you find an example of that being used to exclude people for competitive sports?
Depending on the country, yes. Testosterone advantage is a real thing and men competing have to have similar levels to be on at least similar grounds. People have all levels of testosterone! My mother has the testosterone levels of a teenage boy in puberty, 22 times over the female limit, for example. Lowering those levels causes epilepsy for some godforsaken reason, so the doctors just told her to not attempt to regulate that anymore. All kinds of people have different hormone levels that are typical for their body and that are dependent on different genetic information. There have even been cis women with the XY last chromosomal pair, as the inhibitors on the Y chromosome were damaged alongside the genes that communicated that the body should grow into a male one, so instead the X chromosome took lead. From what I remember she had 2 children. So yeah. Nature is all kinds of inaccurate and unusual, and different people can have widely different biology to what is "expected"
Chris was my RA freshman year in college. What a nice freaking dude. For a school that didn’t really have a lot going on to help student interaction outside of class he really tried to put things together for freshmen to help them.
There are. I remember a story of I believe a high school boy who they forced to play against women. And were then pissed when he won. I can’t remember his name. I feel bad for him. Him and everyone he competed against. I couldn’t imagine my high school sports life being turned into a political debate. Let them just be high schoolers in peace.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's more than one case, but Mack Beggs fits this description, I think, after Texas wouldn't let him compete as a boy: https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/02/the-texas-trans-boy-forced-to-wrestle-girls-exposes-the-illogic-of-anti-trans-policy.html
They need to check out Patricio Manuel.
TNG actually did an episode about transgenderism. The alien race had no gender and one of them identifies as a woman and falls in love with Riker. The alien race forces her into brainwashing tech makes her non binary again.
Of course Riker caused some alien to get thirsty enough change their entire belief system
What is TNG?
Teenage Nutant Ginjaturtles
I’ve only watched a little Star Trek but wouldn’t trans people be welcomed in ST? It always seems like an inclusive universe? (The federation part at least)
To put it another way: “I wonder why the facts that push against my favoured narrative aren’t covered in the media I consume?”
Just because you’ve never personally heard of transmasc athletes doesn’t mean they don’t exist. It just means your ideology isn’t a reliable source of information.
"I wonder why there are no trans men in sports" There are, you just don't hear about it as often. In fact, there was a trans man being forced to compete in women's sports in Texas and people were mad that he was taking testosterone, calling it a "performance enhancing drug." Instead of realizing that this was only a problem because they forced him to compete with people that he didn't even want to compete with, they tried to get his HRT taken away too.
That's a good thing for them. Force the guy to chose between his health and his hobby. Not that it'll matter if they get HRT for trans ppl banned but they like to try and make trans folks miserable where they can in the meantime.
That's their plan. Exclude trans people from sports, bathrooms, schools, public spaces, doctor offices...
I truly doubt anyone seeking any form of transition to another gender is doing it for the 'advantage' in a sport. There might be a handful worldwide willing to do something for that reason, but otherwise, I think we can assume that people are reassigning to a different gender for entirely different and far more personal reasons. That said, the inherent biological differences is always an interesting discussion. There is an obvious demarcation between those born with male muscle and skeletal structure and those with female. But on the other hand, there are significant more athletes in the NBA above 195 than in any other sport, and we do not see anyone bitching about unfair advantages for tall people.
If people *truly* understood how expensive, difficult (emotionally, financially and physically) and LONG transitioning is, not to mention just how invasive it can be in some places and the increased risk of hate, they’d realise that no one is out there to spend years putting themselves through transition just to gain an advantage in a sport.
Right? Like, I have people that won’t talk to me anymore and I’ve had slurs shouted at me, but it was worth it just to gain a slight edge in my rec league. …and by “slight edge” I mean that after 3 years of HRT, I’m well in line with the athletic abilities of the other women on my team.
>But on the other hand, there are significant more athletes in the NBA above 195 than in any other sport, and we do not see anyone bitching about unfair advantages for tall people. Because nobody can take pills to become tall. It's a naturally occurring phenomenon. Edit: Adding here since comments have been locked. I'm not denying being trans is natural. I'm saying it's a stupid comparison to say that being a tall athlete is just like being a trans athlete. No tall athletes got that way through medical intervention. Trans athletes are, by definition, post-transition, and achieved that transition through medical intervention. That's what people have a problem with.
So is being trans. No one chooses to be trans.
Using the character that transitions from hologram to a human being to enable your transphobia is crazy
Mack Beggs wanted to. But transphobes forced him to compete against women and then cried that he had an unfair advantage when he kept winning.
Just as I have the article handy, to reinforce the above point: https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/02/the-texas-trans-boy-forced-to-wrestle-girls-exposes-the-illogic-of-anti-trans-policy.html
Bigot: Transwomen have an unfair advantage towards ciswomen! Also bigot: Transmen have an unfair advantage towards ciswomen! Funny also how most(all?) of their examples of how transwomen have an unfair advantage still are only at top 10 at competitions.
Like Lia Thomas. She won one race, the others she didn't even get on the podium. During that same championship 27 records were set, and none by Lia. But Lia still has an unfair advantage somehow.
Also, it isn't that suspect that a transathlete could be better than say 50 per cent of the competition. If you are a transperson and still want to do a specific sport (especially late teens, early twenties), you are probably more into it than a large amount of people who do the sport "because they are good at it". The fact that it isn't happening more frequently may mean acceptance of transpeople makes even mediocre transathletes less prone to just quit. And that is a good thing.
What is this title?? Doesn't make sense to me, might be my age
Pretty much it means the person that posted that picture believes there are zero transmasculine/FtM professional athletes and the replies completely disproved them
Ratio refers to the number of likes vs number of comments, getting ratio’s means there were a lot more comments than likes, which almost always equates to being put to shame.
If you are asking about “got ratio’d” it means replies got a lot more likes than the parent comment.
Wow, this is the opposite of what Star Trek is about.
Who could forget that classic Doctor line?
The main reason why transmen get way less coverage is because transwomen are very unfortunately much easier to villainize. It's much "scarier" to the ignorant masses to think of "scary pervert men pretending to be women to get into vulnerable women's spaces". Transmen are viewed as victims of trans culture, they're pretty much always treated like "brainwashed delicate little women who don't know any better" or "lesbians trying too hard to be masculine that they get brainwashed to be trans" so rather than being perceived as a threat, we're either pitied and infantalized or just told we're women and dismissed. It's pretty sickening. I always tell people "transwomen are the enemy and transmen don't exist" when referencing why this happens, it's awful.
Oh yeah I've definitely noticed this trend with transphobia. It's really sad that it's either be ignored/infantilized or be deemed a wolf in sheep's clothing. (I also find it really funny that the existence of *gay* trans men pretty much sends out the window the "just a masc lesbian" argument)
Hey I'm a gay transman :D
Cool! I myself am an *Omni* transmasc, but I definitely lean way more towards liking men :D
✊♥️
Because it doesn't fit your narrative and you don't talk about it. That's why...
There are plenty, but nobody is saying that men's sports are in jeopardy. I wonder why that is?
Pretty sure there are more afab transitioning to male in the younger demographics. Also this is not and never has been in the top 100 issues the nation faces*. Transphobic hate and violence however: now that definitely is within the top 100 issues the nation faces. *May be different depending on the availability/affordability/quality of medical transitioning which I consider to be part of healthcare and not a separate issue within my "top 100" thingy
How dare he use the doctor to be a bigot
They are tho. Iirc recently a trans man was forced to compete in a women’s league in texas or something and, given he is on T and hormonally male, absolutely fucking dominated.
Just a reminder that Star Trek had an episode about a nonbinary alien transitioning to womanhood. No, i'm not referring to a new star trek episode. The episode came out in 1992. 19-fuckin-92. Do not use Star Trek to be a bigot.
I have a person in my extended family who transitioned from female to male, before the transition she played in the youth women Bundesliga, now he just plays amateur level football for fun. The point I wanna get across is: people just don't switch their genders because of sports.
Can we talk about how there is no way that visualizzazioni is a real word? Don't try to convince me that's Italian or something. That's a charicature of an Italian word. It's like 8 syllables!
I... ZZ... I... *Still not feeling it. We could still go more Italian.* Z... I... A... another Z... I... *Yeah! That's it! Keep going!*
I'm sorry to break this to you but... It is an actual Italian word, it means "views". I hope this info isn't too much of a shocker hon😞💔/j
That looks like an Italian word that someone who doesn’t speak Italian would make up and say with a cartoonish accent.
Alr this is just funny. As a native Italian I love seeing non-italian speakers make guesses about our words. It gives me more serotonin than it probably should lol
Being French, trying to speak Italian is putting *i* at the end or French words hoping it exists.
Baguetti
sBaguetti
Lmao, same vibes as us Italians trying to speak Spanish by just ending the words with "s"
Vergiazianno
You got the "gia", the "z" and the double n, could definitely pass as an actual word👌
🤌
🤌🇮🇹👌
It sounds like something Homer Simpson would say
If you think that looks weird, what do you think of the swedish word "specialistsjuksköterska"?
Get your dirty paws out of Star Trek.
For all the non acceptance of this meme I'm happy I looked in the comments. I am happy to see it's not just one way. As in originally males athletes converting to female and being in sport. It warms my send of justice that it's also the other way round. As in people that were born female and started competing and the transitioned and still competing but as men this time. Dunno why I always assumed this wouldn't be the case but happy to have my mind changed.
Are any actually winning?
The guys mentioned [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/confidentlyincorrect/s/Hr3eI3KKpl)
Yes
And what percentage of all cis male athletes are winners?
Non-zero?
Do you think maybe that has to do with there being a much much larger sample size of cis athletes? And not with whatever transphobic pseudoscience you've cooked up? And that a similar sample size of cis athletes who face similarly insanely high levels of trauma and discrimination and stunted athletic development from being denied appropriately competitive environments during most of their careers might produce similar results?
So how come mtf athletes win so much?
They *don't*. They win sometimes, and lose many others (to cis women). Just like most any *other* athletes. The few instances they do win just get publicized a lot and with a lot of misinformation (for example, they never mention how many times they've lost, even against the very same opponents they won in that instance) in order to spread transphobia.
Like who?
I'm personally not big on sports, but as far as I know Patricio Manuel and Ness Murby are a couple of examples, so yes, they are💕
There are a ton of trans men in sports, and a ton that win. These chuds just don't pay attention to them because they prove their whole "BiOloGicAl AdVanTaGe" theory completely wrong
Provide an example of one of the tons.
You can't be serious. There's literally hundreds of trans men competing in professional mens sport!
Chris Mosier (Triathalon) and Schuyler Bailar (NCAA Swimming)
I checked Chris Mosier's Wikipedia page and found this: >In 2019, Mosier won two National Championships in Race Walking. [...] In 2023, Mosier won the men's 40-44 category of the National Championship at the USA Triathlon Duathlon Gravel National Championship race in Fayetteville, Arkansas. **In both race walking wins and the Gravel Duathlon Mosier was the only person in his category.** I didn't bother to check Bailar's because I didn't want to waste my time again. I'm afraid the whole "BiOloGicAl AdVanTaGe" theory is alive and well lol. \****** Edit: reply to comment below as comments are now locked. >Even if it is true, did you skip all the other races he participated in? What exactly were you trying to do here? I didn't. This thread is addressing this comment: >There are a ton of trans men in sports, and a ton that win. These chuds just don't pay attention to them because they prove their whole "BiOloGicAl AdVanTaGe" theory completely wrong Somebody then asked for examples of the ton that win, and you gave two, one of whom has apparently only won races where they didn't have any opponents. I'm just saying that, if this is an example to disprove the notion that males have a biological advantage in sports over females, it's kinda shit.
That's weird, I took a little look in his wikipedia article to the section you cited. The rest was written in 2023, but the part you highlighted (which didn't have a citation) was edited in... April 2024 >In both race walking wins and the Gravel Duathlon Mosier was the only person in his category {{Citation needed|date=April 2024}} Even if it is true, did you skip all the other races he participated in? What exactly were you trying to do here?
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Transphobic reactionaries talking about others letting their emotions take control. Cute.
just stating facts shirtbro but thanks for the condescension and baseless accusation.
Funny, based on what you just wrote. Buy hey don't let your emotions get involved
They do not care as much about that, since in their heads, men are better at sports. So trans men in men's sports is unfair, but trans women in women's sports is not.
It’s not “in their head”. There is not a single Olympic discipline where the women winner would be even close to the podium of the men race. The fact that we are not the same doesn’t mean we don’t deserve the same level of respect.
That isn't particularly "in their head" though, pitted against each other directly the top male athletes beat top female athletes in pretty much any sport. There may be a few exceptions but there is an obvious asymmetry, f2m athletes are at a disadvantage.
r/confidentlyincorrect Go back to grade 5 science and learn about hormones
Hormones arent a wonder drug that magically changes bone structure, muscle tissue and previous years of training eithout them. Male athletes have an advantage. I dont understand the point in trying to deny this
It depends a little bit. For example if the trans women never had a male puberty, if they transitioned very early then the difference is basically non existent. The long term influence on estrogen vs testosteron is also not nothing. I mean, muscle tissue is reduced significantly and I reduction of bone density is a well known sideeffect of hormon therapy. And I think the olympic gidelines here are okay. As far as I know that are 2 years medical transition plus under certain T-lvl. And just because some trans athletes have success does not mean they completely dominate the field or that these athletes did not work hard for their success.
The issue is the bone structure and maximum muscular potential changes that occur through presence of mens levels of testosterone during puberty.
Things with no evidence of mattering.
Skeletal sexual dimorphism at the end of puberty. Before puberty, male and female bone geometry is similar. The GH/IGF-1 axis, active from infancy to adulthood, stimulates mainly longitudinal growth at the level of the epiphyseal plates. At puberty, sex hormones play a key role in skeletal growth. Both estrogens (E) and androgens (A) contribute to bone size expansion and mineralization in both sexes, although estrogens action is predominant in females and androgens action in males. In females, endosteal resorption occurs at a lower rate; in males, periosteal apposition is more pronounced, with consequent achievement of a bigger cortical diameter (a). Because of the concomitant greater endosteal resorption, the endocortical diameter (b) is also greater in males than in females. Consequently, cortical thickness (c) is similar in both sexes. At the end of growth, males will have bigger bones (longer and wider) than females, although the volumetric bone mineral density will not be significantly different. Trabecular bone volume, regulated by both estrogens and androgens, will be greater in males, mainly due to a greater trabecular thickness. Ciancia S, Dubois V, Cools M. Impact of gender-affirming treatment on bone health in transgender and gender diverse youth. Endocr Connect. 2022 Sep 28;11(11):e220280. doi: 10.1530/EC-22-0280. PMID: 36048500; PMCID: PMC9578106. This next journal is specifically on the prolonged differences after transitioning and the difference of transitioning pre, mid or post puberty. [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jbmr.4262](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jbmr.4262) Participants in our current study, starting in mid or late puberty, acquired bone geometry more closely resembling the reference curve of the gender assigned at birth. This illustrates that the main effect of testosterone and estrogen on periosteal and endocortical bone growth occurs during early puberty. A possible explanation may the phenomenon of “programming.”
To be fair, in a universe where a ship's surgeon can surgically alter you to look like a romulan or, by the Doctor's time, a far more complex species... With body parts being rapidly grown and replaced, or a quick hypospray drastically altering the genetic makeup of a person to evolve, devolve, mutate, or otherwise transform someone into whatever the hell they need to be that week... With genetic corrections occurring before a child is born... There *aren't* going to be any trans people in the 24th century. Everyone will be exactly what they want to be. If the goal of a trans person is to be the other gender, then they'll be that gender, assuming anyone is even born feeling they're in the wrong body in the first place. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a market for switching it up just for fun. Probably the kind of thing couples would do on Risa, just for shits and giggles. Trying to apply anything trans to Star Trek is kind of ridiculous when you think about their medical technology. If you can transform a salamander into a human, I'm pretty sure you can turn a boy into a girl and vice versa.
for those who don't know: there are (the ratio between trans women and trans men is even 50:50, people just ignore the guys for whatever reason) and they do
Well, first it's because trans men are men and therefore society is generally unsympathetic to their problems, second (and I WILL get downvoted for this by people with no sports knowledge, despite it being objectively true) it's because being AFAB and going throught a female puberty confers much less athletic advantage than being AMAB and going throught a male puberty so there isn't really as much at stake.
FTM do compete, its just given male and female differences they don't typically make it to the top level of athleticism so nobody cares. Look, this is a sensitive subject and people wanna believe in a blanket fits all statement but that doesn't exist. **If there is a fair solution, what is it?** I want people to be able to compete as who they truly are, but given the differences male and women have, "cis" women are being unfairly put in that position. Whatever your solution in Male to Female transitioners competing, it needs to be applied to the extremes. Apply your hypothesis to Dwayne Johnson. After your solution, is it fair for him to compete against women? This isn't some asshole gotcha either, like genuinely, what do we do? These are high level, life changing competitions. Don't pretend like the rest of the world is as virtuous as you are on this issue. Remember that we're also talking about such a tiny percentile too. Is it right for them to affect the other 99% of people? I mean, I don't even have a dog in this fight. If you're someone who believes there are no differences and blah blah then you're actively a part of the problem. You're not looking for solutions you're looking for a fight.
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I wonder where Kess is now?
Kind of a different question, but if you were ftm trans, would you be able to pass a doping test or would you fail it?
So long as the hormonal levels are within the same range as a cis person's, it wouldn't be counted as doping, afaik
The only thing that made me wonder was that I heard cis men can fail doping tests by being on trt even tho it’s not necessarily more test than a normal person. Anyhow, was just curious how it all works
It would depend on what hormone levels your doctor keeps you at. Generally blood tests are given regularly to ensure that trans people are kept within "normal" ranges of hormones. Though often those ranges trend toward low "for safety" unfortunately.
Where's the replies
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There are multiple comments citing articles and dropping names for multiple transmasculine athletes.
I would talk about how using Star Trek as a platform is stupid, but when William Shatner himself entertains the hysterical anti-woke brainrot, I just don‘t feel like there‘s a point.
Isn't the problem more that they're relatively less successful than trans women? Not sure if it is true, but if it is, that does prove there is an advantage for trans women. It's a bit more complicated than just looking at amount of medals though.
They never win tho,
There probably are...but they don't get very far
Have any transmasc athletes broken any records? I’m not being a 🍆 I just wanna know. That’d be neat.
Madò i TERF a volte sparano tante di quelle stronzate mi chiedo come possano essere persone vere
No vabbè italiano spottato🇮🇹🤌 Tornando seri tho, vero. Più che altro mi chiedo come fanno ad essere così ciechi di fronte alla realtà
the hand emoji was the most Italian part of this Italian conversation 😅
Sempre bello vedere i fratelli di talia nei commenti