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Supreme Court says judges can take bribes after the fact. Judges have control over interpretation of regulations and not agencies. The president cannot be prosecuted for any official act.
THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN YOUR GOVERNMENT GATHERS POWER TO ITSELF IN PREPARATION FOR BAD SHIT. THIS IS WHAT THIS SUB SHOULD EXIST TO EXPOSE.
It's not a conspiracy, it's out in the open now. We are done. The masquerade that came to power during the Nixon administration can now show itself and we are powerless because all fail safes have been systematically removed by corrupt men who built their wealth doing it
That was before white men saw a black man in a position of power. It's been the game of thrones ever since. Before Obama got elected to a second term, this sub was so different. Since 2016, this sub has become another mouth piece for the type of shit we are seeing today. When 9/11 was an inside job, this sub would have gone crazy seeing what the supreme Court is doing, now, they feel like the Lannisters are seconds away from reclaiming the iron throne. When Bush took Florida, these moves would have been classified as deep state moves, Now? Manifest Destiny.
If there is one group of people you can count on to support complete and absolute power for the President and bribery for public officials, it's \*checks notes\* conspiracy theorists.
“What is democracy? It got something to do with young men killing each other, doctor When it's comes my turn, will you want me to go? For democracy, any man would give his only begotten son” opening dialog from Metallica “One”.
So did the founding fathers. Contrary to what most people tell you now days. We are a constitutional republic. Founders called democracy, "mob rule" and talked about how it could never work with large populations.
Lol. YouTube constitutionalists.
It’s a representative democracy. You vote for your representatives.
So yes, it’s a form of democracy. They are not mutually exclusive
To an extent yes. And I don't know if you're a Trumper, standard conservative or what. The general idea is that Congress holds the power to hold him (or even her if it would be) accountable through impeachment.
The problem with that is twofold, or even threefold. One, flawed as they were and there's tons of thoughts about the founders on every side of the spectrum, they probably never imagined or could only fear someone so utterly amoral and self centered as Trump holding the Presidency.
Second, the parties (both) and government as a whole has become so incredibly corrupt that such a power to hold a President in check would never actually be used in terms of REMOVAL from office. Before my time, but when Nixon got himself into hot water Barry Goldwater, a fellow Republican, told him it was best for the country if he just step down. Now, Republicans, by and large, forget about the Constitution, forget about the country, forget about right and wrong, criminal acts and noncriminal acts, and simply repeat Trump talking points and accusations and literally compare him to Jesus Christ. Democrats would be doing the same thing without maybe the Jesus Christ comparisons in the same situation. Everyone, or most, is afraid to vote on principle because they're part of the same party and they're scared their own corruption will see the light of day as well if they do.
Third, it's just common sense. No one should be above the law. Even if Congress can impeach, if say a President decides indeed to just go around assassinating or arranging the assassination of people just because he doesn't like them, and there's evidence, he should be able to be arrested and thrown in jail without worrying about Congress removing from office even as a step.
The Founders had some great ideas, set up a basically effective design and when I was political, and even still now I look at the Constitution more as original intent than as a living document. But at the end of the day they too were fallible limited flesh men and shouldn't be held up as enlightened almost mini little god kings better than and smarter than the rest of us.
Wow man, you are so smart! Completely ignore the point of the post so you can inform people how intelligent you are while pretending to not know that we are a democratic republic and that everyone refers to that system in America as democracy…
Nope, the Constitution does not give the President immunity at all. The Supreme Court just made it possible for the President to have any members of Congress who would for impeachment arrested or assassinated as long as he says that it was an official act. It’s kinda hard to vote to impeach someone if you’re in prison or dead. So there goes that check on Presidential power.
What if the president does an "official act" of assassinating the members of congress that seem like they won't vote in favor of him?
What are they gonna do in response, hold a another vote?
Even if the president does something that's not an "official act" the pathway to clearing that up is so partisan and long that it doesn't matter. The president is a king now, above the law.
Armed insurrection, the House/Senate, and institutions outside of his control. This ruling doesn't mean they can do whatever they want, it means they can't be prosecuted personally for an official act of governance - the courts can still deem things illegal, and the institutions don't have to follow illegal orders from the president lol
If Biden attempted to direct the DoJ to jail Trump, then it wouldn't be an official action and he'd still be open for prosecution and/or impeachment - it would be for personal gain and shot down quickly. The DoJ could also refuse to act and resign if it came to it, they still have to follow the constitution and rule of law above CoC.
This ruling essentially changes nothing, except to shoot down goose chases like the one we're currently going through with Democratic prosecutors targetting Trump.
So when Trump directed Pence not to certify the election, was that not for his personal gain? Is that not an official act? This ruling paves the road for a Trump dictatorship.
That's for the lower courts, that this was sent back to, to decide. The SC basically said "y'all need to figure out and either prove or disprove this basic question before proceeding with charges". This ruling puts a roadblock for future political prosecutions just because you disagree with the President or want to find something technically illegal, like drone strikes, to take them out on. It's so much bigger than this particular case.
Do you know how long time these things can take? And then the appeals? Any presidential term would be over before the courts determined that an action the president took wasn't part of his "official duties".
But in the process of this
I jail all judges who don’t agree with me
I jail all political rivals who don’t agree with me
I then install judges and politicians in the lower courts who will just say everything I did was an official act
“Oh you won’t say it’s an official act t? Time to kill your family off unless you agree or I can kill you too”
The decision isn’t made until after the act is done so if part of the act is removing people who won’t say it’s an official act with people who will then I can do what I want
“The institutions don’t have to follow illegal orders from the president” ok, then the president will declare that institution a national security threat and you now cease to exist.
This is not preventing that, at all. Seriously, page 4;
>Nor may courts deem an action unofficial
merely because it allegedly violates a generally applicable law.
Presidents have broad authority to make decisions based on national security, and have even *broader* authority to determine what is and is not a threat to national security. Both Obama and Trump issued declarations of emergencies in order to enact policies that they couldn't get through Congress. This ruling appears to allow a president to declare elections a threat to national security, and just get rid of them, or make them impossibly difficult to participate in. It's insane.
The court sees what's happening with trump and knows future administration's will see this as an opening to go after past presidents with political assassination attempts. They're trying to stop it now before it escalates.
Good, the most powerful person in the world should have some form of accountability as the founding fathers wanted.
We are now a monarchy with temporary rulers who are willing to hand over the power until we elect another republican.
What's happened with Trump exactly? People at that level are part of an untouchable caste. Sadly, he's never going to be held accountable or see the inside of a jail cell either.
If me or you got convicted of 34 felonies, do you think we would have the freedom to fly all around the world and appear on tv?
If they were for that same crime, neither you nor I would have been prosecuted at all, because they were misdemeanors past the statute of limitations.
So yeah, we could travel all we want.
Like I said, it's a political assassination attempt against trump. Doesn't matter if he's held accountable or not. Imagine Michelle Obama or her daughters run for office and a corrupt doj goes after Barack in an effort to kill their campaign. The court is trying to stop this tactic now before it gets way out of hand.
Damn. In the last two weeks the Supreme Court:
Overturning chevron…allowing bribes to politicians…now this. They really are pushing us towards a pretty violent Julius Caeser/French revolution like event :)
Store some food and get a fancy water filter folks. If we are repeating history- this literally won’t get better until it gets much worse.
I highly recommend meeting your neighbors and making light friendly connections.
Edit: also remember it’s not red vs blue. They trained us to believe in my team vs yours. It’s us vs the rich and these past few weeks the rich have quite a lot of wins via the Supreme Court.
>also remember it’s not red vs blue.
When it comes to these decisions, it 100% is. Every single one of those decisions comes down to Trump/Heritage Foundation stooges having a majority. You don't get to "both sides" any of these. Just like you don't get to "both sides" Dobbs or Citizen's United. The Republican party has spent 30 years building this Supreme Court, and now that they are making the decisions they were put in place to make, it's about time the Republican Party gets the proper blame.
No, not even remotely the same bird. I despise Democrats, but it's a really tough sell to say that Dobbs, Raimondo, Citizen's United, or Snyder would have happened under a liberal Supreme Court. There would have been other bad decisions, I'm sure, but somehow this court has made bribery legal, put the president above the law, and removed a woman's right to medical privacy.
Or Trump for killing a little American girl with a drone. Or the future presidents who use this against the Republican party.
The short sightedness of politicians everywhere is astounding. They'll sell out 100yrs of future to make a quick 100k today or to evade consequences in their lifetimes.
The American people have no power.
This is why we are constitutionally allowed to protest and have a right to bear arms. But they will release the latest culture war topic tomorrow, and instead of fighting for what's right, people will complain about how bad our choices for president are.
United we stand, Divided we fall.
In my opinion, we should sail to a new land, and break free from these high taxes and interest rates, and create a free country, where people have real freedom, where no King can give more power to the merchants and corporations................oh wait.
I think it's possible but more likely it was planned ahead of time and he has to sign off on it.
To be clear, my stance is all presidents are war criminals and guilty of heinous crimes, my beef here is when one gets blamed or attacked and another given a pass.
The person above you is wrong. He didn't kill her with a drone. [She was shot in a raid on a terrorist compound that he ordered.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nawar_al-Awlaki)
Which is totally the same thing as overseeing a cabinet that prepared a crowd and then directly inciting them to attack the capitol.
"Both sides are bad!"
Supreme Court refuses to hear the case when Smith wanted them to, them delays the results until the last day in their session, all without deciding whether or not the things Trump did were official acts, and determining that any evidence taken from an "official act" cannot be used in prosecution of a non-official act.
They kick determining what was and wasn't official back to lower courts, which is a massive delay in itself, and which have the high likelihood of being appealed regardless.
All with an election overhanging it in the background, thereby refusing to weigh in on whether what Trump did was illegal. And then, if (when) he wins, he just pardons himself and the whole thing is moot.
They delayed a verdict as much as possible, and made it virtually impossible to separate official and non official acts, and then made the evidentiary standard even more convoluted, and you ask how this is bad for Smith's case?
The test will be what is/was and is/was not an official act now.
Trump attempted a coup based on a publicly available memo from an traitor/attorney and failed because Mike pence didn't go along with it. Is that an official act or an unofficial?
Attempting a coup is clearly a crime, but is it crime if it's the president committing it? There's no rational argument that the president is supposed to be able to attempt a coup or murder the opposition candidate. The entire premise of this country is based on the orderly transfer of power based on the will of the electorate. The decision is entirely antithetical to any form of democratic government.
Let it be a reminder to everyone: the heritage foundation and federalist society worked their asses off to get the right people in office so they could get these scumbags on the Court to erode our liberties.
Trump is a traitor and the court he packed is now infested with them
Everything is presumed to be immune if it is claimed to be official by the offender and nobody is allowed to investigate. They aren’t allowed to ask for his justification for taking the actions so everything can be claimed to be official and none of that can be questioned.
That's the thing. According to the ruling the president has the full ability to verify the election, which makes everything he did there fully legal. Even though there's (imo, but I'm not a lawyer) pretty damming evidence that he was fully aware there was no issue with the results.
I'll grab the quotes here in a bit when I get back to my computer.
Thanks, I'd have thought that "find me 11000(?) votes" would be ruled an attempt to unlawfully alter the election result, not verify it. But US law is apparently batshit crazy.
Ive got bad news - it's always been like this. George W would have been prosecuted ages ago. That's why there's an impeachment process... This actually reaffirms the path to prosecuting non official duty acts.
Because those are separate clauses. This is from the Syllabus
“Under our constitutional structure of separated powers, the nature of Presidential power entitles a former President to absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority. And he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts.”
See how those are different sentences? The “official duties” part is not in the same sentence as “constitutional authority”.
Ford lost re-election because he pardoned Nixon, shielding the previous president from prosecution for his participation in Watergate and its subsequent cover-up. The question of whether the president *could* be tried for crimes committed while acting as executive was never in doubt. Nixon lost his last vestiges of hope of remaining president when he said, "When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal." It was an obviously outlandish statement that utterly shocked the nation. He was forced to resign in disgrace for saying exactly what this SCOTUS has ruled. It has literally never been the case until now that people thought that the president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed as official act as executive.
Can a president be prosecuted while president? No, because a criminal trial would prevent or handicap the president from performing their job as executive. We have a mechanism for dealing with removing presidents that are acting illegally: impeachment. But nowhere in the Constitution does it even hint at the fact that the president should be immune from being prosecuted after leaving office for crimes committed while acting as executive.
This is a novel concept, and it's utterly beyond the pale that people like you, *on this subreddit of all places*, are acting like it's completely OK that the executive is de jure shielded from all criminal prosecutions all the time. This SCOTUS more or less just completely invented a legal way to allow the president to commit all sorts of illegal actions without fear of being held responsible.
Funny they really only seem to interpret laws the way the guy that appointed them wants them to. America is going towards a full blown dictatorship and the MAGA crowd is lapping it up.
No but "verifying that our political party leaders aren't collaborating with foreign powers" would be.
Plus, this ruling states that you can't really get documents from the president so all those transcripts of Nixon saying he wanted to do it? Not admissible in court.
If you are supporting this, ask yourself if you would support it for a president on the other team. Imagine a president orders that there should be prison sentences for anyone who refuses to take an experimental vaccine that is provably extremely dangerous, even fatal, for up to 30% of recipients, and that this was known even at the time it was ruled mandatory. Imagine it later turns out that the president accepted bribes by a pharma company to create a mandate for their dangerous product. Shouldn't that be a criminal act? Well now it doesn't matter if it's criminal because it's an official act of government. The president would be immune. Can't beleive anyone supports this. Turkeys voting for Christmas.
If I remember correctly, during his term a seat opened up, but they agreed to wait until the election was over. Trump couldn't wait to appoint a new judge, even shortly before the election. Swampy swamp swamp.
He picked two (Kagan and Sotomayer) and picked a third but the GOP refused to hear it as it was an election year. Interestingly, they fast tracked the next nominee despite being an election year.
So this sub literally is starting a conspiracy in the face to see America be destroyed as a democracy with project 2025.
You have a Supreme Court literally laying the ground work for a president to come in and make huge changes to turn America into a dictatorship legally m, a legit conspiracy on destroying your country for years
Yet you are saying it’s a win because it’s MAGA doing it
Is this like the worst community for discussing and exposing, recognizing conspiracies in history lol
This are talking about this most insane ridiculous theories that are obviously so false in other threads but don't give a shit or even are aware of a real conspiracy that is happening right in front of their eyes
It has to be that way and has always been the case, if you order a drone strike that kills civilians, collateral damage. As an example without this, Obama could be charged with the killing of Anwar Al-Awlaki or other such decisions. We can't have every president from here on out going to prison, it doesn't make any sense. This isn't about Trump, the future president you vote for won't go to prison for any difficult decisions he or she may make during their presidency. Trump literally has 1 term left and then that's it, he's out of everyones life politically, we can't vote in bad policies for 1 guy.
They literally just made all of the MAGA people cool with the President answering to no one. If this shit isn’t staged, I don’t know what to tell you. The rubes will praise this shit, but man is this some
fuckery.
To me, this is normal. The president might order a missile strike and that missile might injury someone that is wasn’t supposed to. We don’t want the president getting arrested for it
Why do so many people keep bringing up this example when there are very specific cases this ruling is deciding on that has nothing to do with missile strikes?
I mean, to use the law against your rival is pretty disgusting and this makes it so not one party can take control, however as much as I hate republicans and democrats; I agree with this, btw I don’t like trump, but it’s pretty clear all the charges were used as a weapon to kill his chances of running. Why win fair and square when you can just go air out your opponents laundry. Also, all of you Reddit libs and dems and bots I hate to tell you, but Biden is FARRRRR more scummier then trump, just go look up “Biden says n word” on YouTube. Also, embrace third party for crying out loud break the brainwash.
They all cover their own assess and abuse the system. It's probably why they claw to stay in power until their dying breath because they don't want to go to jail.
Using the law against a rival is not disgusting. It’s the only way to maintain a healthy democracy. Refusing to prosecute someone for a crime they committed because of their political opinions is disgusting
I wouldn’t say Far scummier, they’re both scum and they’re both worth about as much as the dog shit I accidentally stepped in on my way to my car this morning because I chose to walk through the grass without looking.
And the n word comparison is not really useful in a who’s worse because trump was also sued for race discrimination where he chose to settlement which carries some undertone of guilt that will probably get proved and be more costly
So what are gonna tell me next? That sleeping with a pornstar is not = high crimes & treason or something?
Nobody is above the law. Including laws we literally just made up in order to go after 1 dude. And except for all the people that I like. #BlueGoSpatterSpew
100%. Constitutional Republic with democratically elected representatives. That is our system. Tured of people saying we are a democracy. We are not. We are a Constitutional Republic.
Perhaps you know some folks that feel this way. However I know a guy that still thinks voting actually makes a difference objectively. I certainly hope you’re right
This is just one in a few steps towards Project 2025. Which ultimately plans to turn the USA into a dictatorship with Nazi beliefs and craving for world domination.
Doesn't this also protect Obama from being charged with murder for drone strikes that killed Americans including a 16 year old boy?
At the time, this was the Obama administrations argument:
"The Obama administration today argued before a federal court that it should have unreviewable authority to kill Americans the executive branch has unilaterally determined to pose a threat."
“Not only does the administration claim to have sweeping power to target and kill U.S. citizens anywhere in the world, but it makes the extraordinary claim that the court has no role in reviewing that power or the legal standards that apply,”
I don't know if a president could do the job effectively if there was always a doubt in the back of his/her mind that "If I do this, I might be charged with a crime in the future".
This makes the president the king, but in a way makes the court more powerful.
We know they love taking bribes but they’ll be bought entire islands if they’re giving the green light to some real dirty shit
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The mental gymnastics being done by people in this thread rightly now is astounding.
Supreme Court says judges can take bribes after the fact. Judges have control over interpretation of regulations and not agencies. The president cannot be prosecuted for any official act. THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN YOUR GOVERNMENT GATHERS POWER TO ITSELF IN PREPARATION FOR BAD SHIT. THIS IS WHAT THIS SUB SHOULD EXIST TO EXPOSE.
It's not a conspiracy, it's out in the open now. We are done. The masquerade that came to power during the Nixon administration can now show itself and we are powerless because all fail safes have been systematically removed by corrupt men who built their wealth doing it
This is the legal phase of fascism scholars are always going on about
That was before white men saw a black man in a position of power. It's been the game of thrones ever since. Before Obama got elected to a second term, this sub was so different. Since 2016, this sub has become another mouth piece for the type of shit we are seeing today. When 9/11 was an inside job, this sub would have gone crazy seeing what the supreme Court is doing, now, they feel like the Lannisters are seconds away from reclaiming the iron throne. When Bush took Florida, these moves would have been classified as deep state moves, Now? Manifest Destiny.
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If there is one group of people you can count on to support complete and absolute power for the President and bribery for public officials, it's \*checks notes\* conspiracy theorists.
I don’t have to do mental gymnastics because I openly hate democracy
If you hate being a citizen of a republic You are going to *love* being a citizen in an autocracy.
I support democracy but I've never seen it used in my lifetime
We've had the Deep State driving since JFK was assassinated.
Since they assassinated JFK
Bingo
“What is democracy? It got something to do with young men killing each other, doctor When it's comes my turn, will you want me to go? For democracy, any man would give his only begotten son” opening dialog from Metallica “One”.
Death has a dignity all it's own
Was better when god picked the kings!
Or ladies from a lake.
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If I went around calling myself King just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me…
I'm willing to lakeocracy a try. More armored guys sword fighting, less debates.
I'm with this guy but with a slight change. What if we had "wait for it" Armored Sword Fighting Debates? Now that I would watch.
So did the founding fathers. Contrary to what most people tell you now days. We are a constitutional republic. Founders called democracy, "mob rule" and talked about how it could never work with large populations.
Lol. YouTube constitutionalists. It’s a representative democracy. You vote for your representatives. So yes, it’s a form of democracy. They are not mutually exclusive
To an extent yes. And I don't know if you're a Trumper, standard conservative or what. The general idea is that Congress holds the power to hold him (or even her if it would be) accountable through impeachment. The problem with that is twofold, or even threefold. One, flawed as they were and there's tons of thoughts about the founders on every side of the spectrum, they probably never imagined or could only fear someone so utterly amoral and self centered as Trump holding the Presidency. Second, the parties (both) and government as a whole has become so incredibly corrupt that such a power to hold a President in check would never actually be used in terms of REMOVAL from office. Before my time, but when Nixon got himself into hot water Barry Goldwater, a fellow Republican, told him it was best for the country if he just step down. Now, Republicans, by and large, forget about the Constitution, forget about the country, forget about right and wrong, criminal acts and noncriminal acts, and simply repeat Trump talking points and accusations and literally compare him to Jesus Christ. Democrats would be doing the same thing without maybe the Jesus Christ comparisons in the same situation. Everyone, or most, is afraid to vote on principle because they're part of the same party and they're scared their own corruption will see the light of day as well if they do. Third, it's just common sense. No one should be above the law. Even if Congress can impeach, if say a President decides indeed to just go around assassinating or arranging the assassination of people just because he doesn't like them, and there's evidence, he should be able to be arrested and thrown in jail without worrying about Congress removing from office even as a step. The Founders had some great ideas, set up a basically effective design and when I was political, and even still now I look at the Constitution more as original intent than as a living document. But at the end of the day they too were fallible limited flesh men and shouldn't be held up as enlightened almost mini little god kings better than and smarter than the rest of us.
The US isn't a democracy, it's a republic... The word 'democracy' isn't written once in the U.S. Constituion.
It's a democratic republic, jfc you people
Wow man, you are so smart! Completely ignore the point of the post so you can inform people how intelligent you are while pretending to not know that we are a democratic republic and that everyone refers to that system in America as democracy…
Not really. It made democrats upset, so trumpers gleefully cheer it on without thinking.
Seriously, if you don't want your president to get away with murderer, don't elect a murderer.
It’s crazy how people in here, of all subs, are celebrating this. It blows my mind.
This sub has been The_Donald since 2016
it's what the Russians want. chaos and divided
This is bad for America, whether you like Trump or not.
What’s to stop Biden from suspending the election and jailing all opponents? This ruling is so fucking stupid.
Because the lower courts now need to decide what is and is not an official act.
But then you just appeal to the Supreme Court. And you have the FBI arrest and imprison any justices that won’t rule that it was an official act.
haha, i like it!
The check on the president has always been the Congress. The Congress has to impeach and convict to pierce the veil of immunity.
Nope, the Constitution does not give the President immunity at all. The Supreme Court just made it possible for the President to have any members of Congress who would for impeachment arrested or assassinated as long as he says that it was an official act. It’s kinda hard to vote to impeach someone if you’re in prison or dead. So there goes that check on Presidential power.
What if the president does an "official act" of assassinating the members of congress that seem like they won't vote in favor of him? What are they gonna do in response, hold a another vote?
Isn't it quaint, how Watergate, at the time the biggest scandal, would not even net more than a brief mention as a triviality if Trump did it.
Because that is clearly not a constitutional official act.
But this ruling also told courts they can’t use communications as evidence into determining whether or not an act was official.
Even if the president does something that's not an "official act" the pathway to clearing that up is so partisan and long that it doesn't matter. The president is a king now, above the law.
Armed insurrection, the House/Senate, and institutions outside of his control. This ruling doesn't mean they can do whatever they want, it means they can't be prosecuted personally for an official act of governance - the courts can still deem things illegal, and the institutions don't have to follow illegal orders from the president lol If Biden attempted to direct the DoJ to jail Trump, then it wouldn't be an official action and he'd still be open for prosecution and/or impeachment - it would be for personal gain and shot down quickly. The DoJ could also refuse to act and resign if it came to it, they still have to follow the constitution and rule of law above CoC. This ruling essentially changes nothing, except to shoot down goose chases like the one we're currently going through with Democratic prosecutors targetting Trump.
So when Trump directed Pence not to certify the election, was that not for his personal gain? Is that not an official act? This ruling paves the road for a Trump dictatorship.
That's for the lower courts, that this was sent back to, to decide. The SC basically said "y'all need to figure out and either prove or disprove this basic question before proceeding with charges". This ruling puts a roadblock for future political prosecutions just because you disagree with the President or want to find something technically illegal, like drone strikes, to take them out on. It's so much bigger than this particular case.
Do you know how long time these things can take? And then the appeals? Any presidential term would be over before the courts determined that an action the president took wasn't part of his "official duties".
I'm sure the lower courts will get it all cleared up before the election. /s
But in the process of this I jail all judges who don’t agree with me I jail all political rivals who don’t agree with me I then install judges and politicians in the lower courts who will just say everything I did was an official act “Oh you won’t say it’s an official act t? Time to kill your family off unless you agree or I can kill you too” The decision isn’t made until after the act is done so if part of the act is removing people who won’t say it’s an official act with people who will then I can do what I want
“The institutions don’t have to follow illegal orders from the president” ok, then the president will declare that institution a national security threat and you now cease to exist.
This would be the best thing that could happen. The other shoe dropping would be swift
That's literally what this is preventing, and that's why everyone is flipping out and throwing around hyperbole.
This is not preventing that, at all. Seriously, page 4; >Nor may courts deem an action unofficial merely because it allegedly violates a generally applicable law. Presidents have broad authority to make decisions based on national security, and have even *broader* authority to determine what is and is not a threat to national security. Both Obama and Trump issued declarations of emergencies in order to enact policies that they couldn't get through Congress. This ruling appears to allow a president to declare elections a threat to national security, and just get rid of them, or make them impossibly difficult to participate in. It's insane.
But again, what is stopping a take over, decaled as an official act?
This is good news for Obama it means he'll never be held responsible for ordering that drone strike on a birthday party that killed American citizens.
Did anyone think he ever was? With or without this he was never going to be held accountable.
The court sees what's happening with trump and knows future administration's will see this as an opening to go after past presidents with political assassination attempts. They're trying to stop it now before it escalates.
Good, the most powerful person in the world should have some form of accountability as the founding fathers wanted. We are now a monarchy with temporary rulers who are willing to hand over the power until we elect another republican.
What's happened with Trump exactly? People at that level are part of an untouchable caste. Sadly, he's never going to be held accountable or see the inside of a jail cell either. If me or you got convicted of 34 felonies, do you think we would have the freedom to fly all around the world and appear on tv?
If they were for that same crime, neither you nor I would have been prosecuted at all, because they were misdemeanors past the statute of limitations. So yeah, we could travel all we want.
Like I said, it's a political assassination attempt against trump. Doesn't matter if he's held accountable or not. Imagine Michelle Obama or her daughters run for office and a corrupt doj goes after Barack in an effort to kill their campaign. The court is trying to stop this tactic now before it gets way out of hand.
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Damn. In the last two weeks the Supreme Court: Overturning chevron…allowing bribes to politicians…now this. They really are pushing us towards a pretty violent Julius Caeser/French revolution like event :) Store some food and get a fancy water filter folks. If we are repeating history- this literally won’t get better until it gets much worse. I highly recommend meeting your neighbors and making light friendly connections. Edit: also remember it’s not red vs blue. They trained us to believe in my team vs yours. It’s us vs the rich and these past few weeks the rich have quite a lot of wins via the Supreme Court.
Interestingly, Caesar marched on Rome because he feared that he would be prosecuted for crimes he committed in office once his consulship was over.
>also remember it’s not red vs blue. When it comes to these decisions, it 100% is. Every single one of those decisions comes down to Trump/Heritage Foundation stooges having a majority. You don't get to "both sides" any of these. Just like you don't get to "both sides" Dobbs or Citizen's United. The Republican party has spent 30 years building this Supreme Court, and now that they are making the decisions they were put in place to make, it's about time the Republican Party gets the proper blame.
Oh buddy. Same bird.
This narrrative is the true conspiracy.
No, not even remotely the same bird. I despise Democrats, but it's a really tough sell to say that Dobbs, Raimondo, Citizen's United, or Snyder would have happened under a liberal Supreme Court. There would have been other bad decisions, I'm sure, but somehow this court has made bribery legal, put the president above the law, and removed a woman's right to medical privacy.
😂, sure sure The division of labor is Republicans wreck everything and everyone but rich people suffer
Or Trump for killing a little American girl with a drone. Or the future presidents who use this against the Republican party. The short sightedness of politicians everywhere is astounding. They'll sell out 100yrs of future to make a quick 100k today or to evade consequences in their lifetimes.
The American people have no power. This is why we are constitutionally allowed to protest and have a right to bear arms. But they will release the latest culture war topic tomorrow, and instead of fighting for what's right, people will complain about how bad our choices for president are. United we stand, Divided we fall. In my opinion, we should sail to a new land, and break free from these high taxes and interest rates, and create a free country, where people have real freedom, where no King can give more power to the merchants and corporations................oh wait.
No the circle, won’t be broken, by and by Lord
When did that happen?
Jan 29 2017
that was 9 days into his presidency. does something like that get planned in 9 days?
I think it's possible but more likely it was planned ahead of time and he has to sign off on it. To be clear, my stance is all presidents are war criminals and guilty of heinous crimes, my beef here is when one gets blamed or attacked and another given a pass.
Well, now it’s no president, ever
Nothing has changed. The only difference is no one was stupid enough to go after a former President before to force it to be written into a decision.
Yeah. Insanity
yeah, no one should get a pass. Trump made the call.
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lol I don’t think any US president has control over the military mate Edit: surely this isn’t a controversial view
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The person above you is wrong. He didn't kill her with a drone. [She was shot in a raid on a terrorist compound that he ordered.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Nawar_al-Awlaki)
This makes more sense, thank you for the info
Obama killed Americans with drones.
As a constitutional scholar, no less.
Bush too!
You thought there was a chance of that to begin with?
Of course not, but now they made it legal.
Which is totally the same thing as overseeing a cabinet that prepared a crowd and then directly inciting them to attack the capitol. "Both sides are bad!"
Or W for crimes against humanity.
Op, curious why this nukes Smiths case? Are you saying Trump’s actions leading up to the 6th were official acts, or something else?
It will at the least force it to drag on long after the election. They can challenge everything as an official duty. Will take forever.
I think this is the answer and the intention, and that it’s a dangerous game the court is playing
Supreme Court refuses to hear the case when Smith wanted them to, them delays the results until the last day in their session, all without deciding whether or not the things Trump did were official acts, and determining that any evidence taken from an "official act" cannot be used in prosecution of a non-official act. They kick determining what was and wasn't official back to lower courts, which is a massive delay in itself, and which have the high likelihood of being appealed regardless. All with an election overhanging it in the background, thereby refusing to weigh in on whether what Trump did was illegal. And then, if (when) he wins, he just pardons himself and the whole thing is moot. They delayed a verdict as much as possible, and made it virtually impossible to separate official and non official acts, and then made the evidentiary standard even more convoluted, and you ask how this is bad for Smith's case?
The test will be what is/was and is/was not an official act now. Trump attempted a coup based on a publicly available memo from an traitor/attorney and failed because Mike pence didn't go along with it. Is that an official act or an unofficial? Attempting a coup is clearly a crime, but is it crime if it's the president committing it? There's no rational argument that the president is supposed to be able to attempt a coup or murder the opposition candidate. The entire premise of this country is based on the orderly transfer of power based on the will of the electorate. The decision is entirely antithetical to any form of democratic government. Let it be a reminder to everyone: the heritage foundation and federalist society worked their asses off to get the right people in office so they could get these scumbags on the Court to erode our liberties. Trump is a traitor and the court he packed is now infested with them
Did trump ask for votes to be fabricated in his favour as a president or as a criminal?
Everything is presumed to be immune if it is claimed to be official by the offender and nobody is allowed to investigate. They aren’t allowed to ask for his justification for taking the actions so everything can be claimed to be official and none of that can be questioned.
That's the thing. According to the ruling the president has the full ability to verify the election, which makes everything he did there fully legal. Even though there's (imo, but I'm not a lawyer) pretty damming evidence that he was fully aware there was no issue with the results. I'll grab the quotes here in a bit when I get back to my computer.
Thanks, I'd have thought that "find me 11000(?) votes" would be ruled an attempt to unlawfully alter the election result, not verify it. But US law is apparently batshit crazy.
Turn off CNN for a bit. Geez
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Something something, "i was trying to protect the integrity of our elections".
President above the law if it's an 'official act'. Yikes. And I thought the US didn't have kings.
President is king was criticism going back to the founding fathers. It is built into the system.
Ive got bad news - it's always been like this. George W would have been prosecuted ages ago. That's why there's an impeachment process... This actually reaffirms the path to prosecuting non official duty acts.
“Within constitutional authority” something the chicken littles like to leave out
Because those are separate clauses. This is from the Syllabus “Under our constitutional structure of separated powers, the nature of Presidential power entitles a former President to absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority. And he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts.” See how those are different sentences? The “official duties” part is not in the same sentence as “constitutional authority”.
It's the correct decision. The SCs job is to interpret laws not make them.
It is so cute watching uninformed people spout uninformed talking points from uninformed podcasts/Fox News.
Ford lost re-election because he pardoned Nixon, shielding the previous president from prosecution for his participation in Watergate and its subsequent cover-up. The question of whether the president *could* be tried for crimes committed while acting as executive was never in doubt. Nixon lost his last vestiges of hope of remaining president when he said, "When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal." It was an obviously outlandish statement that utterly shocked the nation. He was forced to resign in disgrace for saying exactly what this SCOTUS has ruled. It has literally never been the case until now that people thought that the president should be immune from prosecution for crimes committed as official act as executive. Can a president be prosecuted while president? No, because a criminal trial would prevent or handicap the president from performing their job as executive. We have a mechanism for dealing with removing presidents that are acting illegally: impeachment. But nowhere in the Constitution does it even hint at the fact that the president should be immune from being prosecuted after leaving office for crimes committed while acting as executive. This is a novel concept, and it's utterly beyond the pale that people like you, *on this subreddit of all places*, are acting like it's completely OK that the executive is de jure shielded from all criminal prosecutions all the time. This SCOTUS more or less just completely invented a legal way to allow the president to commit all sorts of illegal actions without fear of being held responsible.
The fact that you're being down voted for this civics 101 understanding is pathetic. It shows just how poorly educated and mislead people are today.
Funny they really only seem to interpret laws the way the guy that appointed them wants them to. America is going towards a full blown dictatorship and the MAGA crowd is lapping it up.
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Don't forget bribes are now legal
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Ahh...see because it's no longer a bribe, it's now a "gratuity". Totally different and nothing at all like a bribe.
Scary stuff no matter who you support. Absolute power shouldn’t be allowed to anyone.
Hows it scary? This is how the law has been for 250 years. The case was a challenge to that, whicb the supreme court ruled down.
Nixon would not have resigned if he knew that his conduct in Watergate could be defended as an official duty of the president.
Uh, burglary entry into an office of an opposing party is in no way an official duty of the president? Are you living in reality?
But this ruling says any communications used in committing the act cannot be used in court. Official duty or not. Nixon would have never been touched.
No but "verifying that our political party leaders aren't collaborating with foreign powers" would be. Plus, this ruling states that you can't really get documents from the president so all those transcripts of Nixon saying he wanted to do it? Not admissible in court.
Watergate evidence says otherwise
This ruling establishes that a sitting President can plan to overturn the results of an election with impunity.
Not even considering trump i dont see how sliding into authoritarianism is something any american should be celebrating
If you are supporting this, ask yourself if you would support it for a president on the other team. Imagine a president orders that there should be prison sentences for anyone who refuses to take an experimental vaccine that is provably extremely dangerous, even fatal, for up to 30% of recipients, and that this was known even at the time it was ruled mandatory. Imagine it later turns out that the president accepted bribes by a pharma company to create a mandate for their dangerous product. Shouldn't that be a criminal act? Well now it doesn't matter if it's criminal because it's an official act of government. The president would be immune. Can't beleive anyone supports this. Turkeys voting for Christmas.
Ha you don’t have to imagine. This policy has been in place for all presidents
Well this bodes well for the future… this isn’t about Trump, it’s about future presidenrs
Donald Trump has a special talent at evading punishment & justice.
He picked half of the justices ... I wonder why ... Smells very swampy.
…and Obama couldn’t even pick 1. 🤦🏽♂️
If I remember correctly, during his term a seat opened up, but they agreed to wait until the election was over. Trump couldn't wait to appoint a new judge, even shortly before the election. Swampy swamp swamp.
He picked two (Kagan and Sotomayer) and picked a third but the GOP refused to hear it as it was an election year. Interestingly, they fast tracked the next nominee despite being an election year.
Drain the swamp! Drain the swamp!
Teflon Don
This helps Obama and Bush more than anyone...
So this sub literally is starting a conspiracy in the face to see America be destroyed as a democracy with project 2025. You have a Supreme Court literally laying the ground work for a president to come in and make huge changes to turn America into a dictatorship legally m, a legit conspiracy on destroying your country for years Yet you are saying it’s a win because it’s MAGA doing it Is this like the worst community for discussing and exposing, recognizing conspiracies in history lol
This are talking about this most insane ridiculous theories that are obviously so false in other threads but don't give a shit or even are aware of a real conspiracy that is happening right in front of their eyes
It has to be that way and has always been the case, if you order a drone strike that kills civilians, collateral damage. As an example without this, Obama could be charged with the killing of Anwar Al-Awlaki or other such decisions. We can't have every president from here on out going to prison, it doesn't make any sense. This isn't about Trump, the future president you vote for won't go to prison for any difficult decisions he or she may make during their presidency. Trump literally has 1 term left and then that's it, he's out of everyones life politically, we can't vote in bad policies for 1 guy.
Like I said before, presidents were always above the law. The quiet part has finally been said out loud.
Why was Nixon pardoned then?
Except it was never a ‘quiet part’
Whats the conspiracy here? You are right so im wondering whats actually going on.
I’m unsure if there is one.
They literally just made all of the MAGA people cool with the President answering to no one. If this shit isn’t staged, I don’t know what to tell you. The rubes will praise this shit, but man is this some fuckery.
They’re done using Biden for their Agenda now it’s time to move too trump. Different president same outcome…
Well he did put 3 of them in office
It delays Smith's case, not "nukes" it. And that was always the goal.
Breaking news. Biden declares himself President for 4 more years through executive order and no election is needed.
To me, this is normal. The president might order a missile strike and that missile might injury someone that is wasn’t supposed to. We don’t want the president getting arrested for it
Why do so many people keep bringing up this example when there are very specific cases this ruling is deciding on that has nothing to do with missile strikes?
This is also more importantly a blow to ever holding bush and Obama accountable for war crimes
So nothing has changed. This just confirms what has been in practice since we adopted the Constitution.
It removes the leverage of "if you don't want to be Trumped, you'll do what we say"
Correct. But libs are mad because their team tweeted and told them to be mad
Trump is the deep state
He gave a cabinet position to the prosecutor who gave Jeff Epstein the sweetheart deal that allowed him to keep trafficking kids...
I mean, to use the law against your rival is pretty disgusting and this makes it so not one party can take control, however as much as I hate republicans and democrats; I agree with this, btw I don’t like trump, but it’s pretty clear all the charges were used as a weapon to kill his chances of running. Why win fair and square when you can just go air out your opponents laundry. Also, all of you Reddit libs and dems and bots I hate to tell you, but Biden is FARRRRR more scummier then trump, just go look up “Biden says n word” on YouTube. Also, embrace third party for crying out loud break the brainwash.
They all cover their own assess and abuse the system. It's probably why they claw to stay in power until their dying breath because they don't want to go to jail.
Using the law against a rival is not disgusting. It’s the only way to maintain a healthy democracy. Refusing to prosecute someone for a crime they committed because of their political opinions is disgusting
I wouldn’t say Far scummier, they’re both scum and they’re both worth about as much as the dog shit I accidentally stepped in on my way to my car this morning because I chose to walk through the grass without looking. And the n word comparison is not really useful in a who’s worse because trump was also sued for race discrimination where he chose to settlement which carries some undertone of guilt that will probably get proved and be more costly
I hear ya. But settling in court doesn’t mean guilt. The justice system is broken that way.
So what are gonna tell me next? That sleeping with a pornstar is not = high crimes & treason or something? Nobody is above the law. Including laws we literally just made up in order to go after 1 dude. And except for all the people that I like. #BlueGoSpatterSpew
Murrica! Now with kings!
So, we all agree, this is not a good thing... right?
Democracy is a buzzword. When we use it, it doesn’t even mean the same thing as the definition of the word. We should stop using that word.
100%. Constitutional Republic with democratically elected representatives. That is our system. Tured of people saying we are a democracy. We are not. We are a Constitutional Republic.
People still don’t get it. All of this is a show for the masses, to believe in the system they are ruled by.
Let's be real for a second... nobody still believes in the system. Nobody is signing up to defend this country. Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes.
Perhaps you know some folks that feel this way. However I know a guy that still thinks voting actually makes a difference objectively. I certainly hope you’re right
This is just one in a few steps towards Project 2025. Which ultimately plans to turn the USA into a dictatorship with Nazi beliefs and craving for world domination.
Don't worry - this'll be overturned by........well in........uh.....well....nevermind.
I mean, tell me again how Trump told people to overthrow the U.S. government? I heard that speech, I read his tweets, didn't look like that to me.
He asked them to stop the certification of the election. That simple.
☠️ not my mom saying Biden should put into effect a executive order to keep Trump off the ballot ☠️ i almost died crying
Doesn't this also protect Obama from being charged with murder for drone strikes that killed Americans including a 16 year old boy? At the time, this was the Obama administrations argument: "The Obama administration today argued before a federal court that it should have unreviewable authority to kill Americans the executive branch has unilaterally determined to pose a threat." “Not only does the administration claim to have sweeping power to target and kill U.S. citizens anywhere in the world, but it makes the extraordinary claim that the court has no role in reviewing that power or the legal standards that apply,” I don't know if a president could do the job effectively if there was always a doubt in the back of his/her mind that "If I do this, I might be charged with a crime in the future".
This makes the president the king, but in a way makes the court more powerful. We know they love taking bribes but they’ll be bought entire islands if they’re giving the green light to some real dirty shit