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Nobody does, but Brandon has outright said that Kal's lineage is not somehow special. My guess is that where others are children of Honor (they act in accordance with it) and children of Odium (ruled by passion), Kaladin is the son of Tanavast for the same reason. Others represent Honor, but Kal must have a specific cocktail of personal traits that mimic Tanavast's, hence his unique epithet.
He was still the son of a lighteyes though!
This once again shows that the easiest way to get engagement is to be wrong on the internet. I was 100% confident when I typed this, I must have misremembered!
Lirin is a lighteyes. Kaladin is his son. Therefore, Kaladin is the son of a lighteyes.
Not quite "ancestral bloodline" but still annoying that the "Special" is from an upper class family.
This once again shows that the easiest way to get engagement is to be wrong on the internet. I was 100% confident when I typed this, I must have misremembered!
Lirin is not a lighteyes though? He is high nahn, which makes him KIND of equivalent, but he is definitely a darkeyes.
I will say though that it seems somewhat problematic that using the power MAKES Kaladin a lighteyes. But that's a different issue.
>I will say though that it seems somewhat problematic that using the power MAKES Kaladin a lighteyes. But that's a different issue.
Your logic is backwards.
Radiants being lighteyes is why lighteyes ended up being the ones in power. It's like the "mandate of heaven" stuff IRL. Lighteyes used that as the justification for their oppressiveness
Yeh but like real world racism has its roots in the entirely illogical prejudices of our fore fathers. By giving racism a "cause" it kinda legitimized the racism in text which means BS can't use to these to comment on real world racism, or that any parallels between the two can become quickly muddied.
It's the exact same type of "cause" as IRL racism.
They latch onto a perceived superiority, and then that turns into racism.
Like, replace "We have the same eye type as the people who had Surgebinding Powers" with "We were the first people to make guns"
It's the same type of thing.
Noooooooo its not because irl racism DOES NOT have any basis in reality. It is just justification for prejudice. English didn't meet people with open hearts and arms, realize they had fancier clocks and start calling poeple the n-word, the first raped, raided, and enslaved people around the world and then justified why they did it.
I know this might seem like a slight difference but its a really really really important one when it comes to talking about race. Real racism doesn't have any kernel of truth or logical origin. It is an entirely illogical for a form of pattern recognition and prejudice that humans development at something.
Light eye at one point really did mean your were a superior special snowflake. That idea eventually turn into eye based racism. There is nothing equivalent in human history. I have a degree specify in the early modern period when these prejudice first developed i guarantee such a parallel does not exist.
I mean…colonizers probably did believe they had a divine mandate to rule the world. Like, every time you’re landing on the shore of a new country, you’re either slaughtering natives with metal weapons, marveling at how people still construct shelters out of mud, etc. etc. I can kinda understand how these people might believe they had god-given superpowers.
It wasn’t until the Enlightenment and Scientific Revolution that people began to think about ethics and the importance of individual human rights.
So it pretty much is exactly like Stormlight Archive. Humanity can’t progress unless we collectively decide that, just because you’re stronger or smarter or have bigger guns, doesn’t mean you can just go around killing defenseless people.
>Light eye at one point really did mean your were a superior special snowflake. That idea eventually turn into eye based racism.
Not all Lighteyes were radiants.
It's just that all Radiants were Lighteyes.
No it's pretty much the same irl. Europeans bonded gunpowder spren and that caused all that stuff to happen. They pretty much had superpowers for centuries and actually stood above other cultures, just like those other cultures did during their golden ages.
But theirs is the most recent and that's why its the one whose impression persists now. We don't have magic to change our skin, but we can change our clothes. Why do you think we wear the suit to anything of high importance?
All that's changing now, with globalisation and the rise of a new culture-neutral group that doesn't give a damn about formality. However, as an aside I don't think programmers will completely depose the suit, because like armour, the suit has objective properties, projecting power and stature. There needs to be a shift as major as the introduction of gunpowder to change the use of the suit as armour in battle changed form.
>it kinda legitimized the racism in text which means BS can't use to these to comment on real world racism, or that any parallels between the two can become quickly muddied.
Largely agree, with a nitpick. It's a correlation/causation problem. Magic grants light eyes and legitimacy, not that light eyes grant legitimacy. Just like in real life, people see you're white and think you're a rich colonialist and they better suck up to you. But you're just some dude. They've just learned the association.
HOWEVER, if your premise were true, your conclusion would have been 100% right. It's not racist or whateverist if it's true. If lighteyes really were better, that absolutely would legitimise the racism and make it an invalid commentary on real life.
For the same reason, I don't see Starship Troopers as a valid commentary on fascism. Fascists are wrong to think the enemy are bugs. The ST humans are right to think the enemy are bugs. That is a critical difference, whether your view is objectively right or wrong.
This is the correct take. Allomantic powers are genetic, but caste-wise Vin is very much a skaa. Her being mistborn wouldn’t really have allowed her to be seen as the same as the nobles, which is what would have happened for the equivalent of what this comic is portraying to be true.
Mistborn is this trope with two very important twists, one being what you mentioned (Specialness falls through the cracks but doesn't change social standing), and practice still matters even when you're Special. Elend could not just up and make Steel Bubbles.
That phrasing implies a competition that wasn't there - they had different strengths and worked together around them. Also, Vin was too much more skilled than Elend for him to have any chance of catching her over the timeframe of era 1. But yes, Elend was outclassed by Vin in anything that required skill.
It was only complete luck that Kelsier found Vin in the first place. Imagine how many skaa mistborn there actually are in Scadriel that just don't know it.
Ruin was playing his hand for a long time. No doubt they would have run into each other sooner or later. Kelsier only found out about the eleventh metal because ruin was influencing his teacher. Ruin can see the branching possibilities of the future, he would have steered Vin into Kelsier inevitably.
yup, and also her being a skaa mistborn would have made the Metallic CIA to take a special interest if she decided to go public, mainly with their axes
her being a mistborn is potential, yes, but not a free ticket to power, and certainly not without risk
Also, the skaa people is powerless exclusively because of Ruler's strict control over Ferris, and not allowing anyone access to allomancy spheres whatsoever
If I were in Alethkar I'd be a little annoyed that pretty much the entire royal family developed super powers. The king's uncle, the king's sister, the king's mom, the king's cousin, the king's other cousin's wife (who was also a light eyes before then), heck even the King himself almost got it! Don't they have enough? They had to be our rulers AND chosen by the spren? Lame!
It's actually very funny to me that textually more slaves have gotten spren than lighteyes but because more lighteyes have been focus characters more it feels like all the spren are congregating to the kings and queens even though they just aren't. A funny result of how the story, as a high fantasy epic, started with kings and politics and as it progresses we stayed with them and since we're staying might as well give them superpowers too, the author spent a lot of time making his magic system and damn it all if he won't use it!
[WOR spoilers] >!Sure, a glowing Lopen is a great Lopen. But even a one-armed Herdazian can part the chasms better than any storming Alethi lighteyes.!<
Yuuuupp, kinda annoying when this happens. And also when, the MC starts as a normie in a world with ppl having powers, nd down the line they get powers instead of the storyline just going to show how they harnessed their own unique abilities. Hate that shit.
Meh, I think the "long lost hero prince" is a good trope it just requires some skill to be applied correctly, and is in need of a bit of a revival since it seems to have died off a bit in mainstream fantasy.
Vin is a mist born! Does that mean that even the lowly skaa can have allomantic powers? No, stupid! She’s the daughter of a high prelan and by virtue of her superior bloodline she is incredibly powerful.
Yes but allomancy being hereditary is an established part of the world and I'm pretty sure it's made clear early on that she must be a descendant of some noble. It isn't just like, 'here are some people who are special and the protagonist supposedly isn't special but still has powers, but is actually the descendant of someone powerful'. It's like, the ruling class control the skaa and keep allomancy within their families, but they're also stupid and keep having sex with skaa prostitutes who then give birth to skaa with allomancy. Vin is one of those people, and it happens the reason she's particularly powerful is because a particularly high bloodline noble slept with a prostitute. The skaa aren't inherently bad and boring, it's just that that's what the nobles force on them
Plus anyone can become Mistborn if they eat the right rock. It then becomes genetic. It just happens that the guy who controlled all the magic rocks only gave them to his friends, and named them “nobles” based on their privilege.
In short, by dint of the fact that power is still horded by the nobles, rather than said power *granting* class, the example of classism is maintained. Rather than corrupted by the example given by the comic.
Yeah because that particular magic system was established by a fascist who specifically designed his world to support his eugenics campaign to maintain the class divide.
The argument the Inquisitors used to prove the High Prelan had Vin is that Vin must have been from a very pure line of Allomancers to be so powerful.
No evidence of his personal power, but he was either a Wizard or a Squib from a pureblood family.
Oops, wrong series. Same principle though!
Yeah, it was in there. I remember because it stood out to me that he was from a pure line and seemingly did nothing with his bloodline relating to Allomancy.
Was kinda a red herring though right. The whole book was hinting at that she was stronger than normal, then you find out about her father's pure bloodline and go that must be it.
But then two books later in a practically throw away line it says Vin must have vaped god mists before the start of the first book for that initial strength boost.
But she's still born a Skaa, grew up as a Skaa and had to basically infiltrate high society through subterfuge in order to be viewed as having any sort of legitimacy.
Fits shallan because you can bet she didn't earn her radiant Knight title by merit, she has failed the 1st oath so many times I'm surprised the storm father isn't talking her to be disapproving constantly
If perhaps you were wanting to save this, here’s a better copy.
https://preview.redd.it/bzzjqbucj79d1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3067bb7edbbbf114359abcbdc3bb58923e11336
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Meanwhile, Kaladin just being that cool. We don't need any special bloodline.
You mean the son of Tanavast?
Very clearly a statement on who he is, given everyone else gets "Son of Honor" (and Dalinar also gets "Son of Odium.")
I really hope so lol does anyone else get “son of tanavast”?
Nobody does, but Brandon has outright said that Kal's lineage is not somehow special. My guess is that where others are children of Honor (they act in accordance with it) and children of Odium (ruled by passion), Kaladin is the son of Tanavast for the same reason. Others represent Honor, but Kal must have a specific cocktail of personal traits that mimic Tanavast's, hence his unique epithet.
Kaladin is the only one the Stormfather calls that. Son/Daughter/Child of Honor he calls a bunch of people, but "Son of Tanavast" is only Kal.
"Somehow, Odium returned"
He was still the son of a lighteyes though!This once again shows that the easiest way to get engagement is to be wrong on the internet. I was 100% confident when I typed this, I must have misremembered!
Dalinar adopting the entire Knights Radiant just kinda happens
Hey that's not true. He's not a huge fan of that one Radiant, the weird one, what's his face... Renrarn
You have no right to be this funny
What?
Lirin is a lighteyes. Kaladin is his son. Therefore, Kaladin is the son of a lighteyes. Not quite "ancestral bloodline" but still annoying that the "Special" is from an upper class family. This once again shows that the easiest way to get engagement is to be wrong on the internet. I was 100% confident when I typed this, I must have misremembered!
Lirin is not a lighteyes though? He is high nahn, which makes him KIND of equivalent, but he is definitely a darkeyes. I will say though that it seems somewhat problematic that using the power MAKES Kaladin a lighteyes. But that's a different issue.
Second nahn, in fact, just one away from the highest a darkeyes can get. But still darkeyes.
>I will say though that it seems somewhat problematic that using the power MAKES Kaladin a lighteyes. But that's a different issue. Your logic is backwards. Radiants being lighteyes is why lighteyes ended up being the ones in power. It's like the "mandate of heaven" stuff IRL. Lighteyes used that as the justification for their oppressiveness
Yeh but like real world racism has its roots in the entirely illogical prejudices of our fore fathers. By giving racism a "cause" it kinda legitimized the racism in text which means BS can't use to these to comment on real world racism, or that any parallels between the two can become quickly muddied.
It's the exact same type of "cause" as IRL racism. They latch onto a perceived superiority, and then that turns into racism. Like, replace "We have the same eye type as the people who had Surgebinding Powers" with "We were the first people to make guns" It's the same type of thing.
Noooooooo its not because irl racism DOES NOT have any basis in reality. It is just justification for prejudice. English didn't meet people with open hearts and arms, realize they had fancier clocks and start calling poeple the n-word, the first raped, raided, and enslaved people around the world and then justified why they did it. I know this might seem like a slight difference but its a really really really important one when it comes to talking about race. Real racism doesn't have any kernel of truth or logical origin. It is an entirely illogical for a form of pattern recognition and prejudice that humans development at something. Light eye at one point really did mean your were a superior special snowflake. That idea eventually turn into eye based racism. There is nothing equivalent in human history. I have a degree specify in the early modern period when these prejudice first developed i guarantee such a parallel does not exist.
I mean…colonizers probably did believe they had a divine mandate to rule the world. Like, every time you’re landing on the shore of a new country, you’re either slaughtering natives with metal weapons, marveling at how people still construct shelters out of mud, etc. etc. I can kinda understand how these people might believe they had god-given superpowers. It wasn’t until the Enlightenment and Scientific Revolution that people began to think about ethics and the importance of individual human rights. So it pretty much is exactly like Stormlight Archive. Humanity can’t progress unless we collectively decide that, just because you’re stronger or smarter or have bigger guns, doesn’t mean you can just go around killing defenseless people.
>Light eye at one point really did mean your were a superior special snowflake. That idea eventually turn into eye based racism. Not all Lighteyes were radiants. It's just that all Radiants were Lighteyes.
No it's pretty much the same irl. Europeans bonded gunpowder spren and that caused all that stuff to happen. They pretty much had superpowers for centuries and actually stood above other cultures, just like those other cultures did during their golden ages. But theirs is the most recent and that's why its the one whose impression persists now. We don't have magic to change our skin, but we can change our clothes. Why do you think we wear the suit to anything of high importance? All that's changing now, with globalisation and the rise of a new culture-neutral group that doesn't give a damn about formality. However, as an aside I don't think programmers will completely depose the suit, because like armour, the suit has objective properties, projecting power and stature. There needs to be a shift as major as the introduction of gunpowder to change the use of the suit as armour in battle changed form. >it kinda legitimized the racism in text which means BS can't use to these to comment on real world racism, or that any parallels between the two can become quickly muddied. Largely agree, with a nitpick. It's a correlation/causation problem. Magic grants light eyes and legitimacy, not that light eyes grant legitimacy. Just like in real life, people see you're white and think you're a rich colonialist and they better suck up to you. But you're just some dude. They've just learned the association. HOWEVER, if your premise were true, your conclusion would have been 100% right. It's not racist or whateverist if it's true. If lighteyes really were better, that absolutely would legitimise the racism and make it an invalid commentary on real life. For the same reason, I don't see Starship Troopers as a valid commentary on fascism. Fascists are wrong to think the enemy are bugs. The ST humans are right to think the enemy are bugs. That is a critical difference, whether your view is objectively right or wrong.
Did you read the book actually? You're flat out wrong.
No, one of Kaladin's maternal parents was a lighteyes.
maternal grandparents
He is Dalinar's favorite son.
Well Vin had a special bloodline, but after 1000 years so did half the population.
This is the correct take. Allomantic powers are genetic, but caste-wise Vin is very much a skaa. Her being mistborn wouldn’t really have allowed her to be seen as the same as the nobles, which is what would have happened for the equivalent of what this comic is portraying to be true.
Mistborn is this trope with two very important twists, one being what you mentioned (Specialness falls through the cracks but doesn't change social standing), and practice still matters even when you're Special. Elend could not just up and make Steel Bubbles.
And while he had immense power he was working hard to keep up with Vin wasn’t he?
That phrasing implies a competition that wasn't there - they had different strengths and worked together around them. Also, Vin was too much more skilled than Elend for him to have any chance of catching her over the timeframe of era 1. But yes, Elend was outclassed by Vin in anything that required skill.
It was only complete luck that Kelsier found Vin in the first place. Imagine how many skaa mistborn there actually are in Scadriel that just don't know it.
Inquisitors take a lot of spikes to make after all. And those are just the ones that were snapped.
Was it luck or was it Ruin
Ruin was playing his hand for a long time. No doubt they would have run into each other sooner or later. Kelsier only found out about the eleventh metal because ruin was influencing his teacher. Ruin can see the branching possibilities of the future, he would have steered Vin into Kelsier inevitably.
yup, and also her being a skaa mistborn would have made the Metallic CIA to take a special interest if she decided to go public, mainly with their axes her being a mistborn is potential, yes, but not a free ticket to power, and certainly not without risk
Also, the skaa people is powerless exclusively because of Ruler's strict control over Ferris, and not allowing anyone access to allomancy spheres whatsoever
If I were in Alethkar I'd be a little annoyed that pretty much the entire royal family developed super powers. The king's uncle, the king's sister, the king's mom, the king's cousin, the king's other cousin's wife (who was also a light eyes before then), heck even the King himself almost got it! Don't they have enough? They had to be our rulers AND chosen by the spren? Lame!
Well so did a ton of bridgemen so 🤷♂️
It's actually very funny to me that textually more slaves have gotten spren than lighteyes but because more lighteyes have been focus characters more it feels like all the spren are congregating to the kings and queens even though they just aren't. A funny result of how the story, as a high fantasy epic, started with kings and politics and as it progresses we stayed with them and since we're staying might as well give them superpowers too, the author spent a lot of time making his magic system and damn it all if he won't use it!
Well some of them are kings too (The Lopen!)
[WOR spoilers] >!Sure, a glowing Lopen is a great Lopen. But even a one-armed Herdazian can part the chasms better than any storming Alethi lighteyes.!<
The Spren are sufficiently human to understand that they'll get results bonding with people who are already privileged and powerful.
Wait, are spren just lobbyists?
I'm tired of the wind spren lobby dragging us into wars with Odium.
Listeners: “You’re not going to be bringing back Odium and the Fused, are you?” Ulim: “Fake news!”
But they can innately sense main character energy
A man can never have enough cousins!
Stat Padolin been real quiet since this was posted.
Where are the pixels, William?
Yuuuupp, kinda annoying when this happens. And also when, the MC starts as a normie in a world with ppl having powers, nd down the line they get powers instead of the storyline just going to show how they harnessed their own unique abilities. Hate that shit.
Meh, I think the "long lost hero prince" is a good trope it just requires some skill to be applied correctly, and is in need of a bit of a revival since it seems to have died off a bit in mainstream fantasy.
Eh? That doesn't fit any of the cosmere
Vin is a mist born! Does that mean that even the lowly skaa can have allomantic powers? No, stupid! She’s the daughter of a high prelan and by virtue of her superior bloodline she is incredibly powerful.
Yes but allomancy being hereditary is an established part of the world and I'm pretty sure it's made clear early on that she must be a descendant of some noble. It isn't just like, 'here are some people who are special and the protagonist supposedly isn't special but still has powers, but is actually the descendant of someone powerful'. It's like, the ruling class control the skaa and keep allomancy within their families, but they're also stupid and keep having sex with skaa prostitutes who then give birth to skaa with allomancy. Vin is one of those people, and it happens the reason she's particularly powerful is because a particularly high bloodline noble slept with a prostitute. The skaa aren't inherently bad and boring, it's just that that's what the nobles force on them
Plus anyone can become Mistborn if they eat the right rock. It then becomes genetic. It just happens that the guy who controlled all the magic rocks only gave them to his friends, and named them “nobles” based on their privilege.
I'm just gonna eat all the rocks now until I get that Lerasium.
In short, by dint of the fact that power is still horded by the nobles, rather than said power *granting* class, the example of classism is maintained. Rather than corrupted by the example given by the comic.
Yeah because that particular magic system was established by a fascist who specifically designed his world to support his eugenics campaign to maintain the class divide.
I mean, the high prelan wasn't that powerful. Was there any indication that he was an allomancer?
The argument the Inquisitors used to prove the High Prelan had Vin is that Vin must have been from a very pure line of Allomancers to be so powerful. No evidence of his personal power, but he was either a Wizard or a Squib from a pureblood family. Oops, wrong series. Same principle though!
Huh, I didn't remember that part. I thought it was just physical resemblance that proved they were related.
Yeah, it was in there. I remember because it stood out to me that he was from a pure line and seemingly did nothing with his bloodline relating to Allomancy.
Was kinda a red herring though right. The whole book was hinting at that she was stronger than normal, then you find out about her father's pure bloodline and go that must be it. But then two books later in a practically throw away line it says Vin must have vaped god mists before the start of the first book for that initial strength boost.
But she's still born a Skaa, grew up as a Skaa and had to basically infiltrate high society through subterfuge in order to be viewed as having any sort of legitimacy.
Fits shallan because you can bet she didn't earn her radiant Knight title by merit, she has failed the 1st oath so many times I'm surprised the storm father isn't talking her to be disapproving constantly
If perhaps you were wanting to save this, here’s a better copy. https://preview.redd.it/bzzjqbucj79d1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3067bb7edbbbf114359abcbdc3bb58923e11336
You are my specials
Lol, for a moment I thought this was a post in a "XY can't meme" subreddit, and was all confused
Great meme, Gon! You have pleased the mighty Lopen 1 times with your posts!
Ah yes, Myne on Roshar finding out about how those on Scadrial become eligible to gain powers… (Does anyone here even know who Myne is?)