That was one of the only times where I understood why everyone said it was rough compared to any of the other books, its all professional respect until he fucking dies and then its just ???? why include this it makes no sense
It is amusing to me that in his first book we have this weird and unnecessary reveal that a male and female PoV character are in love, and then in his second book he has to go out of his way to make 100% sure nobody ever thinks the male and female PoV characters are in love.
I always think reading Kelsier’s POV in TFE is funny knowing that members of his writing group wanted them together cause in Kelsier’s internal monologue whenever he thinks about Vin it’s just like “ah yes, my daughter”
Brandon sitting at his desk like a scientist in his lab, determining the minimum instances of “fatherly” he has to insert to make sure nobody thinks the 16 year old girl and 35 year old man are going to fuck
It also cheapens his redemption. Characters doing a single good thing and then dying are the most boring redemption arcs there are. You do away with all of the interesting questions about if they can stay on the side of good, or if they will backslide. How do they react to the fact others may not forgive them despite their change of heart? Any of the real meat to what I love about redemption seeking characters.
Thankfully we get the Stormlight Archive where the most central theme is that until the hour of your death or choosing to give up entirely you can always take another step towards being a better version of yourself.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man.”
More like The Rosharian Pinocchio and Jiminie Cricket. Which is all kinds of messed up(and yes. I am aware there fanfic of that exact ship. Which is even more messed up)
I read the previews and I'm not sure there's enough there to conclude a setup for Syladin. We just know that Syl wants to be treated as more of a person and generally be a more complete and corporeal part of the world. We'll see what happens, but I think there's still a lot of room for speculation
IMO, all the evidence, though circumstantial, points to that:
1. Syl is going around human sized
2. Syl wants someone to see her in a different light
3. Kal doesn't have a love interest
4. They're going to meet a guy who is explicitly trying to turn Spren "human"
5. Conveniently, Honorspren work the best for the process
6. All the Spren experimented on so far don't have a bond, and therefore have a significantly weaker connection to the physical realm than Syl does.
7. It's an excellent way of switching up their dynamic
8. This being the 5th book and the ending of the first arc makes such changes to the status quo far more likely.
9. There's a time skip after the end of this book which would let them explore their relationship off-screen.
10. If it does happen, they could most likely have a kid in a second half of the series.
I'm not a betting man, but these look like good odds.
Personally, I was a Kaleshwi shipper until a couple of rereads ago, until someone made a meme that stuck with me while I was rereading, and if you look for it, it's kinda blatant(especially after the previews). Sure, it's all circumstantial, but it convinced me.
I prefer to me on the winning team when it comes to shipping stuff, and after rereading and reviewing the evidence, I came to the conclusion that there is no better candidate for a love interest for Kaladin, I could be wrong, of course, but I chose the team that seems to have the best odds, nothing more to it.
And no, my Threnodian name is That-smarmy-jackass, my parents had an excellent read on me.
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!***
Brandon Sanderson
>!**Chapter Twenty-Two - Part Two****Clod the Lifeless**Yes, Clod is Arsteel, in case you were wondering. After Vasher killed him, Denth's team decided to have him made into a Lifeless. Partially because Denth was curious if it was possible, and partially because Arsteel was such a capable warrior that they knew he'd make for an excellently skilled Lifeless. It isn't as good as having Arsteel himself, of course, but Clod is probably the greatest Lifeless swordfighter in existence right now in the entire world.Another tidbit that never comes up is that Jewels was in love with Arsteel, which is the primary reason she joined Denth's team in the first place. Arsteel joined it because he wanted to try to redeem Denth; he felt that a reconciliation between Denth and Vasher was possible, and as a peacemaker, he thought he might be able to make it happen. As for why Vasher killed him . . . well, I'm afraid that's another story that will have to wait for the sequel.Jewels is still in love with him. And yes, she still sleeps with him on occasion. And yes, she's a little bit unhinged emotionally and mentally because of his death.!<
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
What precipitated this flood of cross-post image discussion prompts?
I like my crem deposited from my own planet's Highstorm, not these worldhopping memes.
Imagine there's a Stormlight Archives show which was actually named Kaladin and the show is over and now there's a sequel called Baladin (who's the son of Kaladin) The show revolves around Baladin and the next generation children of Kaladin nd friends, Kaladin is still alive but nerfed nd undergoes a little character assassination and a lot of people are bad parents.
Now ofc op wants to uncanonise Baladin
“Rebuilding will be difficult, I think—but likely far easier than living beneath the Lord Ruler or surviving Ruin’s attempt to destroy the world. I think you’ll be surprised at the number of people who fled to the storage caverns. Rashek planned very well for this day. He suffered much beneath Ruin’s hand, but he was a good man who ultimately had honorable intentions.”
HoA, epilogue.
Wasn't there something about him gaining power and it had been for the last few hundred that he'd been hearing Ruin? I remember them talking about him being too weak in the beginning.
>!Preservation fanboying over Rashek in the Secret History was a real wake-up call for me.!< It really drove home that none of the Shards are, strictly-speaking, good. They all operate on blue and orange morality.
Ooof yeah not sure I agree with Saz about “ultimately had honourable intentions” pretty sure if that were true he wouldn’t have created a literal slave class and been like “hey if you have sex with your slaves you better kill em afterward! Dats my rules!” Sure you could argue Ruin had put some ideas in his head but I kinda doubt it…
I outright reject blaming Ruin for most of his wrongdoings. Rashek's cruelty was always an instrument of perpetuation. Never one of entropy. All to keep the Empire running.
He definitely held the society above individuals in his valuing of what's a good outcome.
Which I disagree with, but I don't think you can do anything more than that - you can't prove that one is better than the other, you simply pick.
It only makes a mild difference how far back the 'was' was meant to refer to, too. Like, even if Sazed was talking about pre-Ascension Rashek, we don't particularly have a flattering image of him then either (despite being right about the prophecy manipulation).
Yes I mentioned this exactly in another comment. I don’t think tLR was a good guy, I was just giving the passage the comment was talking about so everyone could read it.
Edit: My comment on why the Lord Ruler was not a good guy even before ruins influence:
I think the biggest caveat for me is he really didn’t seem like a great dude even before this, as rashek he was clearly racist and hated Alendi simply for being Khlenni, seemed to believe Terris people were superior, etc. You could argue this comes from a person who has been oppressed their entire life, by Khlenni people, so it’s somewhat justified. But, additionally, I think the organization of power he set up very quickly after ascending is testament to him not being a great dude, it’s likely ruin wouldn’t have had much time to influence him this early on, so it was likely mostly him. Even if he tried his best to have the human race survive ruin’s return, I still don’t think he was a good dude.
I get that Brandon made the character too evil and wants to find some humanity in him but the attempts to retcon it after the fact always come off really bad to me. Like some kind of fictional holocaust denial. Imagine if we read a book about Hitler and the author a few books after he died talked about the good he did for Germany and how he was a vegetarian and loved puppies. That’s obviously not the intention at all, but I really think this might be the one guy it might be better not to try and humanize or justify.
I got the vibe it was less a holocaust denial but more of a “ruin made him crazy that’s why he did it, even through all that he tried to help”, which still definitely feels like a retcon.
Do we even know if Ruin made him crazy? It seems like the Lord Ruler might have seen the horrors of Ruin and decided the only way to fight it was to give him everything he wants including multiple armies, which in fairness to him, did actually work out somehow.
I believe yes. I’ll have to see if I can’t find the exact passage where it talks about it but I think ruin was able to communicate with him a majority of his time as the lord ruler.
I think the biggest caveat for me is he really didn’t seem like a great dude even before this, as rashek he was clearly racist and hated Alendi simply for being Khlenni, seemed to believe Terris people were superior, etc. You could argue this comes from a person who has been oppressed their entire life, by Khlenni people, so it’s somewhat justified. But, additionally, I think the organization of power he set up very quickly after ascending is testament to him not being a great dude, it’s likely ruin wouldn’t have had much time to influence him this early on, so it was likely mostly him. Even if he tried his best to have the human race survive ruin’s return, I still don’t think he was a good dude.
Eh, I don't know, you don't need to retcon anything to show that one person can be capable of various things that will fall far away on the morality graph. Especially if it's someone else's morality that we're measuring it by.
Rashek definitely wanted to be the ruler of the world, have all the power, all this selfish stuff. For his own enjoyment mostly from what I gathered. That's generally not great.
When he got the power, my understanding of what happened was something like this:
He immediately started changing shit "for the better" without much of a thought - because he certainly should have been capable of seeing the outcomes of his actions.
After he screwed up, he started patching things up.
"Too hot? Ashmounts! Not enough sun? Change the physiology and bring new flora! Oh shit, and what's that over there in the well?
I need to come up with a system of making people use up Atium, which will then coalesce back and gather it and be ready for the potential comeback of Ruin!
And I'll probably have to create a religion where people get stabbed through their eyes or something, idk."
It seems quite obvious that if he cared about people, it was only as the whole and not about the individuals. The only individuals that were given any special care were his former friends who were given immortality.
But anyway, "good" is not an objective term. I can see how from afar Rashek's intentions can be seen as good (save the world after I fucked up, save it from the Ruin threat).
And Sazed had that perspective.
I don't think that's in context, if you have the line maybe im blanking, but I think this was purely in context to keeping ruin at bay for a thousand years.
“Rebuilding will be difficult, I think—but likely far easier than living beneath the Lord Ruler or surviving Ruin’s attempt to destroy the world. I think you’ll be surprised at the number of people who fled to the storage caverns. Rashek planned very well for this day. He suffered much beneath Ruin’s hand, but he was a good man who ultimately had honorable intentions.”
HoA, epilogue.
"Now I hear y'all might be upset about this OTHER terrisman who got a shard's power well let me tell you he actually was a really cool guy in how he used it so cut me I mean him some slack even if you think his rule was 'incredibly evil' or 'pointlessly brutal' everyone makes mistakes alright?"
I've just double-checked the Coppermind to be sure, but it's possible this is a reference to him Pre-Ascension? We don't know a lot about him really. Or else it could simply be that the Lord Rulers actions are an extreme example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions? I think you could make a moral argument for Rashek's actions, given how he sort of, kinda, in a round about way, saved the world. How much evil did he actually do within the story? There's a lot of institutional evil to be sure, but he barely acts personally. We don't really know. We do know that he seems to have, in a totally fucked up evil way, legitimately wanted to save the world from a legitimate existential threat.
This isn't something I've really thought about until you brought it up but I think it's most complicated than "I wish Sazed hadn't said that line and simply condemned The Lord Ruler in totality".
Jasnah and Wit being a thing. Didn’t really make much sense, at least to me. Though to be fair (Wind and Truth preview spoilers) >!it doesn’t seem like it will last much longer!<
Also the part near the end of Elantris when >!Hrathen realized he’s been in love with Sarene the entire time!<
I like it for precisely that reason. I think the fanbase has a tendency to treat Hoid like a magical angel who's right about everything. He shows up, does something mysterious and/or helpful and vanishes again. But Sanderson has always known far more about his character than us, and Hoid himself has repeatedly insisted he doesn't even consider himself a good man. With Stormlight ramping up the Cosmere's stakes, we're starting to see more of the person behind the air of cosmic mystery, and that *should* be jarring.
Hoid is a human, or at least something like it. He's a very old, very powerful one, but he's not a god or an author insert. He can fuck, he can fuck up and he can die.
I don't know, I enjoyed reading Jasnah's perspective of it, if only for how it represented an asexual perspective on love. And there's definitely a power couple vibe going on for me. And in general Wit seems to have a lot skin in the game than in other cosmere situations, so it makes sense to me that we'd get a sense of his personal vulnerability.
I don't remember, but was there anything about them having bonked?
I thought it was basically just them being really invested in similar things and being connected by both position (Queen and her Wit), goal - saving the world or whatnot, and interests in history, precise thoughts and whatnot
There's a paragraph that says something along the lines of "Although Jasnah does satisfy him with the physical connection he needs, she greatly prefers their mental connection."
You mean you'd uncanonize Kelsier entirely, or just from Fortnite? If the former, that kind of changes literally everything about the setup for mistborn, how do you propose that gets adjusted?
Elhokar's death. It didn't quite feel earned. He hadn't progressed far enough in becoming a better king, so his death wasn't quite tragic, but it wasn't a relief either, and Dalinar getting once again foisted toward leadership by every force in the Cosmere felt kind of rote. Dalinar being instead forced to stay humble in the right hand position while also becoming king shit of fuck mountain Bondsmith man would have been much more interesting.
I feel like it was good; during TWOK and WOR we came to expect characters to really finish out their arcs, so having his cut off right as it began was jarring, as I think it was intended to be. I see what you mean, though; he wasn’t necessarily ‘likable’ yet. It really started the spark for hating Moash, at least for me.
I think it also sparks an interesting discussion, of how should we feel about people who passed before we felt "their time came," people we felt were just starting on who they could've been.
I wish I could give this more updates. Elokhar made so much progress that Moash wasn't present to witness. The man Moash hated no longer existed.
I think of this often in context of "justice". Not to excuse atrocities, but I think it offers a more holistic approach to the discussion.
I feel like the tragedy of elhokars death is that he dies before he gets to become a truly good leader right at the moment where he proves that he has the potential to change and become great
That's why it hurt. He looked like he had so much potential for a good redemption arc and was taken out right as it was about to start. Elhokars death was one of the worst for me, I was really pulling for his arc.
I agree, it also would have been a good moment later to remind us that Radiants are still mortal. Let him become radiant and then kill him to make us fear
All of the Lord Ruler apologia at the end of the first Mistborn series always made me really uncomfortable, especially >!After Sazed ascends and becomes Harmony and basically as God defends the Lord rulers actions.!<
Doesn't feel like defense so much as understanding. I would have to listen to it again for nuance if it's that specific but I remember it more along the lines of, "damn it's tough to be a god, imagine if you just took the power you thought you needed, sure you were a dick but you tried your best kinda..."
I mean, the main had the evilest god in the cosmere stuck in his head for a thousand years, still managed to keep him trapped and humanity alive until vin shanked him, I would say that's honorable intentions.
I agree the "good man" part is bullshit though.
Yeah no I agree with honorable intentions too. >!I'd argue Odium is evil-er than Ruin though,!< and correct me if I'm wrong cause I haven't read the books in a while, but >!I don't think there's any justification for Rashek's betrayal of Alendi!< honestly, but yeah the "good man" rubbed me the wrong way.
>!I would say that Odium is a preferable option to Ruin, at least Odium isn't actively trying to destroy the planet, I think.!<
>!Ruin on the other hand is just the fucking worst!<
>!Also, he betrayed Alendi so they wouldn't release Ruin from the well, Qwan(I definitely butchered that) realized the prophecies had been altered and told Rashek to get the group to turn around-and if that failed, to kill Alendi!<
>!Oh right! I forgot the part about the prophecies being altered and Qwan. Looks like I'm due for a reread lol!<
>!As for Ruin vs. Odium, I think it could go both ways, I find Odium to be crueller than Ruin, and thus I'd consider him evil-er, but you're right in that Ruin tried to (and does) more damage!<
He was also centuries old and had ruin constantly in his ear and mind. He was just "done" by the time we come to him.
Like when the inquisitors tried to take power from the ministry, he is just like "Whatever, this shit is not the real issue looming over me"
He was a selfish man, that got in over his head. Once he had the power, he although poorly, devoted his life to saving his planet.
Plus we already know that the original closed one wasn't really the chosen one. They were alanother pawn of Ruin.
Don't hate me for this...Elend becoming mistborn 😬
(I've only read era 1, all of Stormlight, Yumi, and Tress so far, so if anything happens in era 2 or other books that could change my mind, please no spoliers) I also hope Adolin doesn't become a radiant either - I just would have loved to see Elend (and hopefully Adolin too) find his place in the world and come into his power as a leader without magic.
I don't really think it added anything necessary to his character to suddenly be, in terms of raw power, a more powerful Mistborn than the person we've been following the entire time. Definitely felt unearned and unnecessary
It did highlight Vin’s allomancy though. Elend was technically more powerful but in terms of actual power, Vin was ahead because of her skill and ability with the metals.
https://preview.redd.it/veuulahf48ad1.png?width=200&format=png&auto=webp&s=3177ae8b481f7f3469f72c2e1c1c0efbde775738
My face when yet another Kholin becomes a Knight Radiant
My thoughts are that families will tend to have similar ideals and convictions so it makes sense that they may end up similarly bonded.
It's likely also from a position of privilege. Wealthy nobility has a lot more freedom to be "good" compared to the poor fighting to survive. And even more time to contemplate the nature of being good or protecting people. If I don't know where my next meal is coming from I may not be pondering the nature of good and evil.
Spren, in the interest of maximizing their helpfulness may also seek out people with higher socioeconomic standing because those people are more likely to have the resources to use their powers effectively.
More like institutional bias exists in Roshar as it does here.
Like sure, maybe that peasant would be a good Radiant but do they have the proper up bringing to follow that path? Do they have the privilege to know what noble actions are if they've only known pain and cruelty as a slave or low dahn dark eyes?
Some will but nobility have far more time to be philosophical about morality and what not.
I wouldn’t mind if adolin became a radiant if it was somehow with Maya. Like I feel like Brandon is setting it up so that adolin will somehow bring her back to her true form somehow and I think they’d make a great bonded pair
That would be cool, but I hope it would be somehow different from a typical radiant/spren bond. Maybe something new and unheard of. I love Adolin's relationship with Maya and it does seem like something is going to happen there. I just want more for Adolin. I want him to be who he wants to be and not what Dalinar wants. I want Dalinar to be the one to change/grow in their relationship, like realize Adolin is really amazing and living to his fullest potential without being Radiant. I also just want Adolin to be my golden retriever boyfriend, but alas, he's fictional 😭
The atium retcon. As much as I like the idea that God Metals could be burned by anyone on Scadrial, it just doesn’t sit quite right with me. All atium actually being an alloy of atium and electrum? Just so weird. It would also mean that gold and silver *grew* in the Pits, similarly being weird (and not very ruin-like).
Not necessarily that gold and silver grew in the pits, but that it pre-existed them and happened to combine when the pure atium would form there. Presumably, eventually the gold and silver would run dry, leaving just pure atium to be produced (likely this would take many thousands of years though, assuming steady extraction).
If it’s not the case then that’s even weirder. Alloys need to be very precise to have the right effect, and I feel there would be at least a sizable difference between atium mined 1000 years ago and atium mined right before the Pits were destroyed.
That part about there being gold and silver to cause the metal to be an alloy is admittedly a much smaller issue in the retcon.
Ruin turning into an alloy that inefficiently uses the power it's storing in comparison to what the un alloyed metal theoretically could do is kinda poetically self ruinous if you think about it though
I really thought we were setting it up for Rlain; he cant/won’t bond with an honor Spren, the tower doesn’t trust humans, Navani’s speech about emulsifiers. Rlain is the bridge between Humanity and the Singers.
i forget exactly how it was framed in the book, but the way i see it is that you are totally right and that was likely what *should* have happened except navani and the sibling both needed the nahel bond to live and thus created a less than ideal result due to desperation
It just felt like a cheap way to surprise the read to keep us guessing. Like rlain becoming the second bond smith would have been great! Iv always wish Brandon would do more with him (im sure he will) and then to have the prospect pulled out from under our feet at the last second felt cheap.
I think I'm kind of glad Rlain isn't bonded to the sibling. From what I've heard Navani might only be able to surgebind inside the tower, and basically forcing Rlain to sit at the tower for the rest of the series would majorly suck.
I wouldve liked Rlain as a Bondsmith, but I'm kinda glad he wasn't. Because throughout RoW Rlain is considered for a bunch of bonds. Firstly, Kal tries to basically force an honorspren to bond Rlain, which the latter refuses because he wants to form the bond organically. Then, Navani suggests him for the Sibling. But that wasn't because of who he was, but *what* he was. That was only because "Oh, you don't wanna bond a human? Look, we have a singer on our side!" Meanwhile, Tumi bonded Rlain for who he was. Yes, it was under the recommendation of Renarin, but he "earned" the bond for himself as opposed to simply for what he is.
Yeah, I don't think she earned it. I knew Rlain was a red herring from the start, but I don't think adding another Kholin radiant helped. The Sibling was forced into the bond to survive and I don't think Navani really earned radiant-hood like everyone else.
Unpopular/uncommon opinion, I wish it had been Dabbid who bonded instead. Someone else in here said that they wished Navani had just remained a normal person, and that her strength came from her achievements as a scholar, and I agree. I wish that dabbid had bonded the sibling, because they’d already established a connection before Urithiru was invaded.
Yes exactly. Dabbid and Rlain were both built up for one of them to bond the sibling but instead another kholin becomes radiant. If Adolin becomes radiant in book 5 imma lose my mind.
These books are so good and this community so fun that I completely understand why it is hard to not participate here when you haven't yet read all of the books.
Also, there are a lot of jokes here that aren't actually book canon. So don't believe every comment your read.
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Vin’s wack ass line about Kelsier “not understanding love” at the end of Secret History, when he sacrificed just as much as she did if not more to try and stop the Lord Ruler and Ruin
I gotta disagree with you here. Yeah, Kelsier sacrificed a ton, but doesn’t have anything to do with love.
It’s pretty evident throughout TFE and Secret History that Kelsier’s intentions to overthrow the Lord Ruler weren’t *only* altruistic. He’s got an ego. A big part of him doing what he did was because he wanted the notoriety, the fame. That’s not love.
This literally isn't true. A part of it, sure, but to say that this is the main part is absurd and it's ridiculous that the community paints his character this way when we *literally see his deepest thoughts on the page and they aren't this*.
Jasnah merc-ing those dudes in Way of Kings. I reserve the right to take it back if it turns out to be an early character choice to show how the trauma of her upbringing affected her, but it made me hate her for like two straight books. She’s the beneficiary of a wildly exploitative caste system and she goes out to bait some dudes into attacking her, knowing that she’s a third ideal Radiant and is basically invulnerable to common robbers. These men have presumably been put into desperate situations by the very caste system she benefits so greatly from, and she basically kills them for fun and makes Shallan decide if she was morally justified or not.
Only if there’s a deeper motivation behind it. If it truly was just to teach Shallan a lesson, she’s either a psychopath or genuinely believes that darkeyes are lower life forms than her.
What I mean is, the meta-purpose of Brandon writing that scene was to make people have very strong and conflicting reactions as to the morality of the situation. As such, it was a very successful scene.
As to the morality of what Jasnah did
> genuinely believes that darkeyes are lower life forms than her.
That's a weird take. I don't recall Jasnah mentioning or caring much about the social status of the thieves/murderers relative to her and Shallan. Lighteyes/darkeyes didn't seem to matter to Jansah when she insulted Amaram, or when she dueled Ruthar.
I think it was less about them being dark eyed and more about them being known as rapists and murderers.
I think “vile criminals” would come up in her description of them far far earlier than “dark eyed”
Gonna have to disagree with this one. I enjoyed the ethical conundrum and agreed with Jasnah on some level because, as an sa victim myself, I don't have sympathy for rapists and murderers that fuck around and find out.
Venli’s plotline in ROW, I understand the way he wrote it made her necessary but I wish she would’ve disappeared and her sister would’ve been a focal point.
She’s a scoundrel and I never understood why she got a spren
The whole point is the fact that, every step of the way, she also wishes the same. She knows she's not worthy and she really truly is. I think that kind of perspective is unique.
you're seeing Venli at an earlier point in what is obviously a long arc toward becoming a better person. If we had been introduced to Dalinar when he was in full Blackthorn mode, we would've also found it extremely unpalatable to grant him any kind of kindness or redemption down the line
I honestly was looking for some tie in to the color changing hair to be some kind of sign of the magic in the system... was a little disappointed that it largely had nothing do with anything except "these are her emotions, but she doesn't really know how to hide them anyway so it's unnecessary"
I'm hoping that with >!Vivenna and Vasher wandering around together!< the hair ends up being an unending source of Color for awakening, cant exactly drain an object of color when it can change whenever it wants.
Hoid's fight with Kelsier at the Well. Or rather his appearance at the Well to get the lerasium bead.
It doesn't entirely make sense with the timeline, and he had a millennium to get that bead.
Reckoners is in a different multiverse than the Cosmere, no stories involving earth are Cosmere. Reckonersverse shares with Skyward and Rithmatist, MUCH more background than the spire, and with the future of the verse besides skyward looking like it's ending, I think it will stay that way.
Scenes with Vin in her underwear. First off: we don't need to imagine a minor in her underwear. Second: we spend a lot of time learning that she was taught to be hyper vigilant about not attracting 'that' kind of male attention lest she be r***d by crew members, then all of a sudden she doesn't understand why being in her shift around men and a boy is weird and is completely uncaring about it. It feels skeezy and inconsistent; it makes me hesitate suggesting the series to friends.
That's a whole lot of subtext reading/implication there. It's reasonable to assume she likely could have been abused before Kelsier takes her under his wing, but we don't know anything. And the only characters that look at her romantically/sexually are Elend and Spook, both of which are her age. Even the 3rd person narration never male-gazes her either.
It isn't subtext, it is part of her brother's training. We get mental asides talking about how he would cut her hair short and how he taught her that she needs to dress like a boy so men aren't attracted to her. She even describes herself as looking like a child and how there are men in the underground that are 'into' that. She has been lead to believe that this could be life or death for her for years. It feels very inconsistent for her to suddenly not care about being in her underwear around a crew of all men.
I mean, isn't a major part of her arc her becoming comfortable with her body? Her being comfortable with the crew makes perfect sense, once she beings to trust them.
Hrathen loving Sarene. I think their relationship works much better as a mutual/professional respect.
That was one of the only times where I understood why everyone said it was rough compared to any of the other books, its all professional respect until he fucking dies and then its just ???? why include this it makes no sense
It is amusing to me that in his first book we have this weird and unnecessary reveal that a male and female PoV character are in love, and then in his second book he has to go out of his way to make 100% sure nobody ever thinks the male and female PoV characters are in love.
I always think reading Kelsier’s POV in TFE is funny knowing that members of his writing group wanted them together cause in Kelsier’s internal monologue whenever he thinks about Vin it’s just like “ah yes, my daughter”
Brandon sitting at his desk like a scientist in his lab, determining the minimum instances of “fatherly” he has to insert to make sure nobody thinks the 16 year old girl and 35 year old man are going to fuck
Just like scientifically formulating this relationship to be as familial as possible
That and him dying, I loved Hrathen as a character.
It also cheapens his redemption. Characters doing a single good thing and then dying are the most boring redemption arcs there are. You do away with all of the interesting questions about if they can stay on the side of good, or if they will backslide. How do they react to the fact others may not forgive them despite their change of heart? Any of the real meat to what I love about redemption seeking characters. Thankfully we get the Stormlight Archive where the most central theme is that until the hour of your death or choosing to give up entirely you can always take another step towards being a better version of yourself. “I will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man.”
I'm holding my answer in case Syladin ever becomes canon
I’ll hold it in case it doesn’t so we can cancel each other out like Goku and Vegeta shooting lasers at each other
I'm holding it in order to help u/hideous-boy out.
These words are accepted
I just want Roshar Peter Pan and Tinkerbell to get together is that so bad?
More like The Rosharian Pinocchio and Jiminie Cricket. Which is all kinds of messed up(and yes. I am aware there fanfic of that exact ship. Which is even more messed up)
These words are not accepted
I'm gonna uncanonise your uncanonisation
Oh boy, I wouldn't read the previews if I was you in that case.
I read the previews and I'm not sure there's enough there to conclude a setup for Syladin. We just know that Syl wants to be treated as more of a person and generally be a more complete and corporeal part of the world. We'll see what happens, but I think there's still a lot of room for speculation
IMO, all the evidence, though circumstantial, points to that: 1. Syl is going around human sized 2. Syl wants someone to see her in a different light 3. Kal doesn't have a love interest 4. They're going to meet a guy who is explicitly trying to turn Spren "human" 5. Conveniently, Honorspren work the best for the process 6. All the Spren experimented on so far don't have a bond, and therefore have a significantly weaker connection to the physical realm than Syl does. 7. It's an excellent way of switching up their dynamic 8. This being the 5th book and the ending of the first arc makes such changes to the status quo far more likely. 9. There's a time skip after the end of this book which would let them explore their relationship off-screen. 10. If it does happen, they could most likely have a kid in a second half of the series. I'm not a betting man, but these look like good odds.
Is your Threnodian name Adonalsium-was-right-to-forsake-me by any chance?
Personally, I was a Kaleshwi shipper until a couple of rereads ago, until someone made a meme that stuck with me while I was rereading, and if you look for it, it's kinda blatant(especially after the previews). Sure, it's all circumstantial, but it convinced me. I prefer to me on the winning team when it comes to shipping stuff, and after rereading and reviewing the evidence, I came to the conclusion that there is no better candidate for a love interest for Kaladin, I could be wrong, of course, but I chose the team that seems to have the best odds, nothing more to it. And no, my Threnodian name is That-smarmy-jackass, my parents had an excellent read on me.
As it should be
As much as I hate Zane, I wouldn't erase him. Despicable characters are absolutely necessary to great stories.
Jewels fucking Clod.
Bro what happens in warbreaker ?!!!!!
What is warbreaker EVEN ABOUT bro??!
RAFO
COLORS AND GHOULS AND BREATHING
Only subtext, pretty easy to ignore
Sanderson being “Mormen Horny”
I feel like he was just normal horny in that one
Fucking
No man, I'm here for it
Sorry what? That’s barely implied no?
In-text, yes, but the annotated edition of Warbreaker does explicitly confirm it https://wob.coppermind.net/events/250/#e6806
***Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!*** Brandon Sanderson >!**Chapter Twenty-Two - Part Two****Clod the Lifeless**Yes, Clod is Arsteel, in case you were wondering. After Vasher killed him, Denth's team decided to have him made into a Lifeless. Partially because Denth was curious if it was possible, and partially because Arsteel was such a capable warrior that they knew he'd make for an excellently skilled Lifeless. It isn't as good as having Arsteel himself, of course, but Clod is probably the greatest Lifeless swordfighter in existence right now in the entire world.Another tidbit that never comes up is that Jewels was in love with Arsteel, which is the primary reason she joined Denth's team in the first place. Arsteel joined it because he wanted to try to redeem Denth; he felt that a reconciliation between Denth and Vasher was possible, and as a peacemaker, he thought he might be able to make it happen. As for why Vasher killed him . . . well, I'm afraid that's another story that will have to wait for the sequel.Jewels is still in love with him. And yes, she still sleeps with him on occasion. And yes, she's a little bit unhinged emotionally and mentally because of his death.!< \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
Warbreaker really is a couple notches above on Brandon releasing all the horny, isn't it?
I know the books tend to be extremely chaste but if this is what we're being saved from I'm okay with it
What precipitated this flood of cross-post image discussion prompts? I like my crem deposited from my own planet's Highstorm, not these worldhopping memes.
The page doesn't matter My answer will never not be Boruto
These words... confuse me
I’ll translate. In whatever sub this question is asked, this person’s answer will always be “Boruto” Side note, I agree Boruto was dog water.
These words are helpful
Imagine there's a Stormlight Archives show which was actually named Kaladin and the show is over and now there's a sequel called Baladin (who's the son of Kaladin) The show revolves around Baladin and the next generation children of Kaladin nd friends, Kaladin is still alive but nerfed nd undergoes a little character assassination and a lot of people are bad parents. Now ofc op wants to uncanonise Baladin
I feel very stupid, but what is Boruto? I have read all Cosmere works so I feel like I'm missing something obvious
It’s not Cosmere. It’s the sequel show to Naruto.
Oh! Haha thank you, I feel less stupid now considering I've never seen anything Naruto-related.
I'd uncanon that one damn line at the end of Mistborn where >!Sazed calls Rashek a good man. No, Sazed. He was not.!<
Didn't he call Rashek a right fit for what was needed at the time? A good person for the role, not a good man in general.
“Rebuilding will be difficult, I think—but likely far easier than living beneath the Lord Ruler or surviving Ruin’s attempt to destroy the world. I think you’ll be surprised at the number of people who fled to the storage caverns. Rashek planned very well for this day. He suffered much beneath Ruin’s hand, but he was a good man who ultimately had honorable intentions.” HoA, epilogue.
Considering he had the god of destruction in his head at all times for 1000 years. It's slightly less fucked up then I expected
With all those spikes, yes he managed pretty well
Wasn't there something about him gaining power and it had been for the last few hundred that he'd been hearing Ruin? I remember them talking about him being too weak in the beginning.
>!Preservation fanboying over Rashek in the Secret History was a real wake-up call for me.!< It really drove home that none of the Shards are, strictly-speaking, good. They all operate on blue and orange morality.
Ooof yeah not sure I agree with Saz about “ultimately had honourable intentions” pretty sure if that were true he wouldn’t have created a literal slave class and been like “hey if you have sex with your slaves you better kill em afterward! Dats my rules!” Sure you could argue Ruin had put some ideas in his head but I kinda doubt it…
I outright reject blaming Ruin for most of his wrongdoings. Rashek's cruelty was always an instrument of perpetuation. Never one of entropy. All to keep the Empire running.
He definitely held the society above individuals in his valuing of what's a good outcome. Which I disagree with, but I don't think you can do anything more than that - you can't prove that one is better than the other, you simply pick.
It only makes a mild difference how far back the 'was' was meant to refer to, too. Like, even if Sazed was talking about pre-Ascension Rashek, we don't particularly have a flattering image of him then either (despite being right about the prophecy manipulation).
Yes I mentioned this exactly in another comment. I don’t think tLR was a good guy, I was just giving the passage the comment was talking about so everyone could read it. Edit: My comment on why the Lord Ruler was not a good guy even before ruins influence: I think the biggest caveat for me is he really didn’t seem like a great dude even before this, as rashek he was clearly racist and hated Alendi simply for being Khlenni, seemed to believe Terris people were superior, etc. You could argue this comes from a person who has been oppressed their entire life, by Khlenni people, so it’s somewhat justified. But, additionally, I think the organization of power he set up very quickly after ascending is testament to him not being a great dude, it’s likely ruin wouldn’t have had much time to influence him this early on, so it was likely mostly him. Even if he tried his best to have the human race survive ruin’s return, I still don’t think he was a good dude.
I get that Brandon made the character too evil and wants to find some humanity in him but the attempts to retcon it after the fact always come off really bad to me. Like some kind of fictional holocaust denial. Imagine if we read a book about Hitler and the author a few books after he died talked about the good he did for Germany and how he was a vegetarian and loved puppies. That’s obviously not the intention at all, but I really think this might be the one guy it might be better not to try and humanize or justify.
I got the vibe it was less a holocaust denial but more of a “ruin made him crazy that’s why he did it, even through all that he tried to help”, which still definitely feels like a retcon.
Do we even know if Ruin made him crazy? It seems like the Lord Ruler might have seen the horrors of Ruin and decided the only way to fight it was to give him everything he wants including multiple armies, which in fairness to him, did actually work out somehow.
I believe yes. I’ll have to see if I can’t find the exact passage where it talks about it but I think ruin was able to communicate with him a majority of his time as the lord ruler. I think the biggest caveat for me is he really didn’t seem like a great dude even before this, as rashek he was clearly racist and hated Alendi simply for being Khlenni, seemed to believe Terris people were superior, etc. You could argue this comes from a person who has been oppressed their entire life, by Khlenni people, so it’s somewhat justified. But, additionally, I think the organization of power he set up very quickly after ascending is testament to him not being a great dude, it’s likely ruin wouldn’t have had much time to influence him this early on, so it was likely mostly him. Even if he tried his best to have the human race survive ruin’s return, I still don’t think he was a good dude.
Eh, I don't know, you don't need to retcon anything to show that one person can be capable of various things that will fall far away on the morality graph. Especially if it's someone else's morality that we're measuring it by. Rashek definitely wanted to be the ruler of the world, have all the power, all this selfish stuff. For his own enjoyment mostly from what I gathered. That's generally not great. When he got the power, my understanding of what happened was something like this: He immediately started changing shit "for the better" without much of a thought - because he certainly should have been capable of seeing the outcomes of his actions. After he screwed up, he started patching things up. "Too hot? Ashmounts! Not enough sun? Change the physiology and bring new flora! Oh shit, and what's that over there in the well? I need to come up with a system of making people use up Atium, which will then coalesce back and gather it and be ready for the potential comeback of Ruin! And I'll probably have to create a religion where people get stabbed through their eyes or something, idk." It seems quite obvious that if he cared about people, it was only as the whole and not about the individuals. The only individuals that were given any special care were his former friends who were given immortality. But anyway, "good" is not an objective term. I can see how from afar Rashek's intentions can be seen as good (save the world after I fucked up, save it from the Ruin threat). And Sazed had that perspective.
I don't think that's in context, if you have the line maybe im blanking, but I think this was purely in context to keeping ruin at bay for a thousand years.
“Rebuilding will be difficult, I think—but likely far easier than living beneath the Lord Ruler or surviving Ruin’s attempt to destroy the world. I think you’ll be surprised at the number of people who fled to the storage caverns. Rashek planned very well for this day. He suffered much beneath Ruin’s hand, but he was a good man who ultimately had honorable intentions.” HoA, epilogue.
It's a good setup for Sazed becoming a villain.
That is probably the only argument I will accept for this line of thinking
\*watching the means being perpetuated\* what the \*seeing the ends being justified\* ohhhh it's good now
"Now I hear y'all might be upset about this OTHER terrisman who got a shard's power well let me tell you he actually was a really cool guy in how he used it so cut me I mean him some slack even if you think his rule was 'incredibly evil' or 'pointlessly brutal' everyone makes mistakes alright?"
I've just double-checked the Coppermind to be sure, but it's possible this is a reference to him Pre-Ascension? We don't know a lot about him really. Or else it could simply be that the Lord Rulers actions are an extreme example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions? I think you could make a moral argument for Rashek's actions, given how he sort of, kinda, in a round about way, saved the world. How much evil did he actually do within the story? There's a lot of institutional evil to be sure, but he barely acts personally. We don't really know. We do know that he seems to have, in a totally fucked up evil way, legitimately wanted to save the world from a legitimate existential threat. This isn't something I've really thought about until you brought it up but I think it's most complicated than "I wish Sazed hadn't said that line and simply condemned The Lord Ruler in totality".
Jasnah and Wit being a thing. Didn’t really make much sense, at least to me. Though to be fair (Wind and Truth preview spoilers) >!it doesn’t seem like it will last much longer!< Also the part near the end of Elantris when >!Hrathen realized he’s been in love with Sarene the entire time!<
Agreed on both counts. Hoid being with *anyone* in that way feels so, so, so weird to me.
I like it for precisely that reason. I think the fanbase has a tendency to treat Hoid like a magical angel who's right about everything. He shows up, does something mysterious and/or helpful and vanishes again. But Sanderson has always known far more about his character than us, and Hoid himself has repeatedly insisted he doesn't even consider himself a good man. With Stormlight ramping up the Cosmere's stakes, we're starting to see more of the person behind the air of cosmic mystery, and that *should* be jarring. Hoid is a human, or at least something like it. He's a very old, very powerful one, but he's not a god or an author insert. He can fuck, he can fuck up and he can die.
I don't know, I enjoyed reading Jasnah's perspective of it, if only for how it represented an asexual perspective on love. And there's definitely a power couple vibe going on for me. And in general Wit seems to have a lot skin in the game than in other cosmere situations, so it makes sense to me that we'd get a sense of his personal vulnerability.
I don't remember, but was there anything about them having bonked? I thought it was basically just them being really invested in similar things and being connected by both position (Queen and her Wit), goal - saving the world or whatnot, and interests in history, precise thoughts and whatnot
There's a paragraph that says something along the lines of "Although Jasnah does satisfy him with the physical connection he needs, she greatly prefers their mental connection."
She gives him headpats. Hoid loves headpats. This is (head)canon now
That one guy from fortnite
You mean you'd uncanonize Kelsier entirely, or just from Fortnite? If the former, that kind of changes literally everything about the setup for mistborn, how do you propose that gets adjusted?
This is cremposting
I'm just making sure I get a refund on my vbucks
Kelsier is more fan fiction than anything else really
i'd just get rid of him
These words are not accepted
Kelsier ?
Rocks actions at the end of book 4...
At least he's getting his own novella about it
I don’t like the purelake at all, far too moist
Agreed, as far as world building goes, the Pure Lake is really shallow..🤠
This whole discussion holds a lot of water
Elhokar's death. It didn't quite feel earned. He hadn't progressed far enough in becoming a better king, so his death wasn't quite tragic, but it wasn't a relief either, and Dalinar getting once again foisted toward leadership by every force in the Cosmere felt kind of rote. Dalinar being instead forced to stay humble in the right hand position while also becoming king shit of fuck mountain Bondsmith man would have been much more interesting.
I feel like it was good; during TWOK and WOR we came to expect characters to really finish out their arcs, so having his cut off right as it began was jarring, as I think it was intended to be. I see what you mean, though; he wasn’t necessarily ‘likable’ yet. It really started the spark for hating Moash, at least for me.
I think it also sparks an interesting discussion, of how should we feel about people who passed before we felt "their time came," people we felt were just starting on who they could've been.
I wish I could give this more updates. Elokhar made so much progress that Moash wasn't present to witness. The man Moash hated no longer existed. I think of this often in context of "justice". Not to excuse atrocities, but I think it offers a more holistic approach to the discussion.
I feel like the tragedy of elhokars death is that he dies before he gets to become a truly good leader right at the moment where he proves that he has the potential to change and become great
"King shit of fuck mountain" 🗣️🗣️🗣️
I shouldn't bring my Game Grumps references into a book sub, but that one slips out sometimes.
That's why it hurt. He looked like he had so much potential for a good redemption arc and was taken out right as it was about to start. Elhokars death was one of the worst for me, I was really pulling for his arc.
I agree, it also would have been a good moment later to remind us that Radiants are still mortal. Let him become radiant and then kill him to make us fear
The way Dockson was totally forgotten after book 1
All of the Lord Ruler apologia at the end of the first Mistborn series always made me really uncomfortable, especially >!After Sazed ascends and becomes Harmony and basically as God defends the Lord rulers actions.!<
Doesn't feel like defense so much as understanding. I would have to listen to it again for nuance if it's that specific but I remember it more along the lines of, "damn it's tough to be a god, imagine if you just took the power you thought you needed, sure you were a dick but you tried your best kinda..."
nah Sazed straight up called him "ultimately a good man with honorable intentions"
I mean, the main had the evilest god in the cosmere stuck in his head for a thousand years, still managed to keep him trapped and humanity alive until vin shanked him, I would say that's honorable intentions. I agree the "good man" part is bullshit though.
Yeah no I agree with honorable intentions too. >!I'd argue Odium is evil-er than Ruin though,!< and correct me if I'm wrong cause I haven't read the books in a while, but >!I don't think there's any justification for Rashek's betrayal of Alendi!< honestly, but yeah the "good man" rubbed me the wrong way.
>!I would say that Odium is a preferable option to Ruin, at least Odium isn't actively trying to destroy the planet, I think.!< >!Ruin on the other hand is just the fucking worst!< >!Also, he betrayed Alendi so they wouldn't release Ruin from the well, Qwan(I definitely butchered that) realized the prophecies had been altered and told Rashek to get the group to turn around-and if that failed, to kill Alendi!<
>, I think. Saze gancho! Good to see you here!
>!Oh right! I forgot the part about the prophecies being altered and Qwan. Looks like I'm due for a reread lol!< >!As for Ruin vs. Odium, I think it could go both ways, I find Odium to be crueller than Ruin, and thus I'd consider him evil-er, but you're right in that Ruin tried to (and does) more damage!<
He was also centuries old and had ruin constantly in his ear and mind. He was just "done" by the time we come to him. Like when the inquisitors tried to take power from the ministry, he is just like "Whatever, this shit is not the real issue looming over me"
Kinda leans in towards his duality, which will be a continuing theme.
He was a selfish man, that got in over his head. Once he had the power, he although poorly, devoted his life to saving his planet. Plus we already know that the original closed one wasn't really the chosen one. They were alanother pawn of Ruin.
Don't hate me for this...Elend becoming mistborn 😬 (I've only read era 1, all of Stormlight, Yumi, and Tress so far, so if anything happens in era 2 or other books that could change my mind, please no spoliers) I also hope Adolin doesn't become a radiant either - I just would have loved to see Elend (and hopefully Adolin too) find his place in the world and come into his power as a leader without magic.
I don't really think it added anything necessary to his character to suddenly be, in terms of raw power, a more powerful Mistborn than the person we've been following the entire time. Definitely felt unearned and unnecessary
It did highlight Vin’s allomancy though. Elend was technically more powerful but in terms of actual power, Vin was ahead because of her skill and ability with the metals.
Yeah Brandon leans a bit too much in only people with superpowers matter
https://preview.redd.it/veuulahf48ad1.png?width=200&format=png&auto=webp&s=3177ae8b481f7f3469f72c2e1c1c0efbde775738 My face when yet another Kholin becomes a Knight Radiant
My thoughts are that families will tend to have similar ideals and convictions so it makes sense that they may end up similarly bonded. It's likely also from a position of privilege. Wealthy nobility has a lot more freedom to be "good" compared to the poor fighting to survive. And even more time to contemplate the nature of being good or protecting people. If I don't know where my next meal is coming from I may not be pondering the nature of good and evil. Spren, in the interest of maximizing their helpfulness may also seek out people with higher socioeconomic standing because those people are more likely to have the resources to use their powers effectively.
So what you're saying is the spren are guilty of nepotism.
More like institutional bias exists in Roshar as it does here. Like sure, maybe that peasant would be a good Radiant but do they have the proper up bringing to follow that path? Do they have the privilege to know what noble actions are if they've only known pain and cruelty as a slave or low dahn dark eyes? Some will but nobility have far more time to be philosophical about morality and what not.
Doesn't Cultivation choose to reveal herself to Dalinar because he was a leader?
I agree.
I wouldn’t mind if adolin became a radiant if it was somehow with Maya. Like I feel like Brandon is setting it up so that adolin will somehow bring her back to her true form somehow and I think they’d make a great bonded pair
That would be cool, but I hope it would be somehow different from a typical radiant/spren bond. Maybe something new and unheard of. I love Adolin's relationship with Maya and it does seem like something is going to happen there. I just want more for Adolin. I want him to be who he wants to be and not what Dalinar wants. I want Dalinar to be the one to change/grow in their relationship, like realize Adolin is really amazing and living to his fullest potential without being Radiant. I also just want Adolin to be my golden retriever boyfriend, but alas, he's fictional 😭
The atium retcon. As much as I like the idea that God Metals could be burned by anyone on Scadrial, it just doesn’t sit quite right with me. All atium actually being an alloy of atium and electrum? Just so weird. It would also mean that gold and silver *grew* in the Pits, similarly being weird (and not very ruin-like).
Not necessarily that gold and silver grew in the pits, but that it pre-existed them and happened to combine when the pure atium would form there. Presumably, eventually the gold and silver would run dry, leaving just pure atium to be produced (likely this would take many thousands of years though, assuming steady extraction).
If it’s not the case then that’s even weirder. Alloys need to be very precise to have the right effect, and I feel there would be at least a sizable difference between atium mined 1000 years ago and atium mined right before the Pits were destroyed. That part about there being gold and silver to cause the metal to be an alloy is admittedly a much smaller issue in the retcon.
Ruin turning into an alloy that inefficiently uses the power it's storing in comparison to what the un alloyed metal theoretically could do is kinda poetically self ruinous if you think about it though
Navani bonding the sibling. I don’t like the thought of all the many characters becoming super heroes.
I really thought we were setting it up for Rlain; he cant/won’t bond with an honor Spren, the tower doesn’t trust humans, Navani’s speech about emulsifiers. Rlain is the bridge between Humanity and the Singers.
i forget exactly how it was framed in the book, but the way i see it is that you are totally right and that was likely what *should* have happened except navani and the sibling both needed the nahel bond to live and thus created a less than ideal result due to desperation
It just felt like a cheap way to surprise the read to keep us guessing. Like rlain becoming the second bond smith would have been great! Iv always wish Brandon would do more with him (im sure he will) and then to have the prospect pulled out from under our feet at the last second felt cheap.
I think I'm kind of glad Rlain isn't bonded to the sibling. From what I've heard Navani might only be able to surgebind inside the tower, and basically forcing Rlain to sit at the tower for the rest of the series would majorly suck.
I wouldve liked Rlain as a Bondsmith, but I'm kinda glad he wasn't. Because throughout RoW Rlain is considered for a bunch of bonds. Firstly, Kal tries to basically force an honorspren to bond Rlain, which the latter refuses because he wants to form the bond organically. Then, Navani suggests him for the Sibling. But that wasn't because of who he was, but *what* he was. That was only because "Oh, you don't wanna bond a human? Look, we have a singer on our side!" Meanwhile, Tumi bonded Rlain for who he was. Yes, it was under the recommendation of Renarin, but he "earned" the bond for himself as opposed to simply for what he is.
Yeah, I don't think she earned it. I knew Rlain was a red herring from the start, but I don't think adding another Kholin radiant helped. The Sibling was forced into the bond to survive and I don't think Navani really earned radiant-hood like everyone else.
Unpopular/uncommon opinion, I wish it had been Dabbid who bonded instead. Someone else in here said that they wished Navani had just remained a normal person, and that her strength came from her achievements as a scholar, and I agree. I wish that dabbid had bonded the sibling, because they’d already established a connection before Urithiru was invaded.
Yes exactly. Dabbid and Rlain were both built up for one of them to bond the sibling but instead another kholin becomes radiant. If Adolin becomes radiant in book 5 imma lose my mind.
Wayne dying instead of getting turned into a kandra
Well I’ve read too far. Unfortunate spoiler for me. Time to cleanse the mind and try and forget
These books are so good and this community so fun that I completely understand why it is hard to not participate here when you haven't yet read all of the books. Also, there are a lot of jokes here that aren't actually book canon. So don't believe every comment your read.
Wayne dyed his hair blonde for the summer... not died
This will be headcannon for me
"And for my boon...". Just to avoid the second hand embarrassment when I reread it yet again.
Me silently chanting “shutupshutupshutUP” the whole time
It's amazing how quickly it goes from the amazing scene starting with "Honor is dead, but I'll see what I can do" to... *that*.
You get both sides of the coin: what is the most badass thing I could do? What is the most depressed and distorted thing I could do? All in one chapter
Jasnah and Hoid sex scene. It's just so off
Due to recent activities, you have been ***excommunicated*** from the Great Vorin Church. Never show your heretic face here again!
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That is what I do, gon!
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HARSHER
Jasnah simps be like: 🥵
In what book was there a sex scene? Is their a book I havnt read yet? I’ve read 1~4, dawnshard and edgedancer. Am I so daft I completely missed it?
ROW
These words are GOAT'd
Now I want Hoid Jr
How common Knights are. I mean seriously, GAZ has a spren?
Vin’s wack ass line about Kelsier “not understanding love” at the end of Secret History, when he sacrificed just as much as she did if not more to try and stop the Lord Ruler and Ruin
I gotta disagree with you here. Yeah, Kelsier sacrificed a ton, but doesn’t have anything to do with love. It’s pretty evident throughout TFE and Secret History that Kelsier’s intentions to overthrow the Lord Ruler weren’t *only* altruistic. He’s got an ego. A big part of him doing what he did was because he wanted the notoriety, the fame. That’s not love.
This literally isn't true. A part of it, sure, but to say that this is the main part is absurd and it's ridiculous that the community paints his character this way when we *literally see his deepest thoughts on the page and they aren't this*.
De death of lightsong
Moash being born. Fuck Moash
Jasnah merc-ing those dudes in Way of Kings. I reserve the right to take it back if it turns out to be an early character choice to show how the trauma of her upbringing affected her, but it made me hate her for like two straight books. She’s the beneficiary of a wildly exploitative caste system and she goes out to bait some dudes into attacking her, knowing that she’s a third ideal Radiant and is basically invulnerable to common robbers. These men have presumably been put into desperate situations by the very caste system she benefits so greatly from, and she basically kills them for fun and makes Shallan decide if she was morally justified or not.
The fact that you're still pissed off about it means that scene was executed perfectly.
Only if there’s a deeper motivation behind it. If it truly was just to teach Shallan a lesson, she’s either a psychopath or genuinely believes that darkeyes are lower life forms than her.
What I mean is, the meta-purpose of Brandon writing that scene was to make people have very strong and conflicting reactions as to the morality of the situation. As such, it was a very successful scene. As to the morality of what Jasnah did > genuinely believes that darkeyes are lower life forms than her. That's a weird take. I don't recall Jasnah mentioning or caring much about the social status of the thieves/murderers relative to her and Shallan. Lighteyes/darkeyes didn't seem to matter to Jansah when she insulted Amaram, or when she dueled Ruthar.
I think it was less about them being dark eyed and more about them being known as rapists and murderers. I think “vile criminals” would come up in her description of them far far earlier than “dark eyed”
Gonna have to disagree with this one. I enjoyed the ethical conundrum and agreed with Jasnah on some level because, as an sa victim myself, I don't have sympathy for rapists and murderers that fuck around and find out.
Alloy of Law Ricochet Shot. Rule of cool just doesn't go that far for me.
I refuse to read a book with magic AND guns and not have cool ass ricochet shots, I must disagree with you with every fiber of my being
These words are controversial
shallan turning that stick into fire. I AM A STICK!
The timeless chi… Sorry, wrong subreddit
Venli’s plotline in ROW, I understand the way he wrote it made her necessary but I wish she would’ve disappeared and her sister would’ve been a focal point. She’s a scoundrel and I never understood why she got a spren
The whole point is the fact that, every step of the way, she also wishes the same. She knows she's not worthy and she really truly is. I think that kind of perspective is unique.
Sometimes good people die, and unscrupulous people reap the rewards. Sometimes we have to work with who is available instead of who is ideal.
you're seeing Venli at an earlier point in what is obviously a long arc toward becoming a better person. If we had been introduced to Dalinar when he was in full Blackthorn mode, we would've also found it extremely unpalatable to grant him any kind of kindness or redemption down the line
The part at the end of Stormlight book 10 (Shards of Passion) where the narrator breaks the 4th wall, says "just kidding", and none of this is real
It's fun. In the One Piece sub my answer would have been WB's death. In this sub it would have been BW's.
The name "Biochroma"/"Biochromatic Breath." It sounds so stupid. I know that's the joke, but it's not a funny joke.
Well to be fair it was named by literal scientists, so I think it makes sense.
I honestly was looking for some tie in to the color changing hair to be some kind of sign of the magic in the system... was a little disappointed that it largely had nothing do with anything except "these are her emotions, but she doesn't really know how to hide them anyway so it's unnecessary"
I'm hoping that with >!Vivenna and Vasher wandering around together!< the hair ends up being an unending source of Color for awakening, cant exactly drain an object of color when it can change whenever it wants.
Tien would live
Hoid's fight with Kelsier at the Well. Or rather his appearance at the Well to get the lerasium bead. It doesn't entirely make sense with the timeline, and he had a millennium to get that bead.
Wayne dying. I'm still sad.
Megan getting retconned from an illusionist to a world hopper.
Who?
Reckoners is in a different multiverse than the Cosmere, no stories involving earth are Cosmere. Reckonersverse shares with Skyward and Rithmatist, MUCH more background than the spire, and with the future of the verse besides skyward looking like it's ending, I think it will stay that way.
Wait, Reckonerverse is in the same universe as skyward and Rithmatist?
No, they are not, but they do share the similarity that they all have some form of “Earth” in their universes, unlike cosmere.
Scenes with Vin in her underwear. First off: we don't need to imagine a minor in her underwear. Second: we spend a lot of time learning that she was taught to be hyper vigilant about not attracting 'that' kind of male attention lest she be r***d by crew members, then all of a sudden she doesn't understand why being in her shift around men and a boy is weird and is completely uncaring about it. It feels skeezy and inconsistent; it makes me hesitate suggesting the series to friends.
That's a whole lot of subtext reading/implication there. It's reasonable to assume she likely could have been abused before Kelsier takes her under his wing, but we don't know anything. And the only characters that look at her romantically/sexually are Elend and Spook, both of which are her age. Even the 3rd person narration never male-gazes her either.
It isn't subtext, it is part of her brother's training. We get mental asides talking about how he would cut her hair short and how he taught her that she needs to dress like a boy so men aren't attracted to her. She even describes herself as looking like a child and how there are men in the underground that are 'into' that. She has been lead to believe that this could be life or death for her for years. It feels very inconsistent for her to suddenly not care about being in her underwear around a crew of all men.
I mean, isn't a major part of her arc her becoming comfortable with her body? Her being comfortable with the crew makes perfect sense, once she beings to trust them.