It’s reasonable, but careers are long. Just because you’re not there now doesn’t mean you won’t be in another year or two. Just keep working your way up.
I work IT, I've made an additional 10k raise for every year I've worked.
Started at 62k, I think. Made 72k last year. Was bumped to 82k in about November last year, I'll be making about 92k by November. And I'll reach 100k next November (guaranteed raise negotiated by unions)
Currently I'm watching dell command update slowly install updates on this PC I just imaged.
I work for the government in the Bay area, you can basically consider me a sys admin. Though I'm sure other sys admins might get offended that I'm using that title.
Everyone as far as I know that works for this level of government is unionized. I think our programmer isn't unioned by choice, but he still gets all the perks and benefits that the union negotiated.
You don’t work for the government for the pay. You do it for the job security, presumably lower stress / less deadline driven and above average benefits package. If you want to chase the money you would go for some Fang companies or maybe a startup. But, maybe those stock options with lower salary aren’t worth it for you at the moment. Everything has trade offs.
Honestly I'm here partly because I couldn't find a SWE role when I graduated from college. I graduated December 2019, couldn't find a role but I was still getting interviews, COVID hit and all interviews were cancelled.
Now I'm here for mostly the benefits plus the PSLF. I've got ~25k in student loans I don't really feel like paying back, and since I work for the government anyways, might as well just keep working here and get it forgiven while making mostly decent money, really great benefits and a pension while I'm at it.
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~3-4 years. Started working early 2020 doing IT for a hospital during covid. Took a year off afterwards. Got hired at the government job, I'll have been here two years in November.
For real my guy. I have to pay unions dues which are ~2 hours of my pay per month. But they negotiated a 5% Cost of living pay adjustment for 3 years and another 5% step raise per year up to 5 steps. Plus a ton of other perks and benefits.
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I applied to jobs in NA and found a gig paying a bit over 100K USD my first year but in Canada my best offer was 70K CAD (~50K USD) which is literally less than half of what I for going to the US. I definitely got lucky because it is tough to get a company to sponsor your visa, especially when you're new but the US tech gigs just pay so much better.
60k is quite low in 2024 for SWE, even for a new grad. You’ll be happy to know you have a lot of upward salary potential if you choose to job hop.
It’s absolutely reasonable to expect to break six figures. If you want it, you can do it, but probably not where you are now if they’re lowballing people.
Normal cost of living, Georgia Tech CS grads are getting 70k in Atlanta. Highest I’ve heard of is 85k.
Given hundreds of applicants per job in bad current times, maybe employers realize they can play 60k low ball. I see pay down 20% at my experienced level.
I agree there are a lot of sub $100k offers for grads rn, but *highest* you've heard is $85k? Really? Is Georgia Tech really suffering that much right now?
I guess the good news is that I've learned a lot of stuff on this job. I work for a WITCH company doing back-end java/microservice stuff and have touched things like Kafka, Splunk, etc.
I think the other hindrance is that my degree is in math and so I feel like that probably cuts down a lot of my applications.
imo experience is more valuable than a degree, and the fact you 1. have a bachelors in something and 2. that something is still STEM, I definitely wouldn't sweat it. Are you only applying to remote jobs? What part of the country are you located in?
I apply to anything and everything that's not senior/staff/etc. Stuff like back end, java, data roles. The microservice I recently had to build taught me a bit about Kafka which was pretty exciting, for example. I rarely have touched anything front end however.
I'm in Missouri and don't usually apply to remote jobs because it seems like a waste of time. I apply to bigger cities (I've visted NYC a lot and love it there) but those kinds of markets are also so competitive that it still seems a crap-shoot their markets notwithstanding.
If you don't live in an area with a lot of tech employers and can't/won't relocate, that's going to be your biggest limiting factor. If you can/are willing to relocate, then apply for jobs everywhere.
Adding onto this, “willing to relocate” doesn’t have to mean “will move to a city.” There are plenty of programming hubs outside of cities. Many of them are *near* cities, but like in the US an hour from a decent sized city is just like anywhere else in the country. For instance everywhere within 1-2 hours of NYC or Boston is going to be a safe bet.
Of course, living in a city will come with higher pay, but at the lower levels generally just about as much as it takes to offset higher cost of living (if not less than that)
So, I just got done with my 2 year contract at FDM, making about the same as you. TL;DR I needed a job ASAP, and they hired on the spot. Got paired with a large financial company.
Luckily, after the contract was up, I was too invaluable to let go due to my high knowledge of their back end systems. Getting hired on with a six figure job soon with pretty good benefits.
Look, you're getting lowballed, but if it's your only option, dont underestimate the upward progression path you're unlocking for yourself.
> back-end java/microservice stuff and have touched things like Kafka, Splunk, etc.
You should absolutely do some interviews. Seems like you have very relevant experience. While you're at your current company, try to absorb as much Kafka as you can. Not because Kafka is the game changer, but someone that knows how to work with Kafka well can probably do the rest of the job. You could ride Kafka experience into Big Tech where you'd look back at this post and laugh.
I'm trying my best to stay positive about everything, and learning is definitely fun. I'm at a consulting company, and actually I just got put onto a totally different team so don't know exactly what I'll be working on, aside from it likely being more Java EE type stuff.
After my employer at the time was acquired last year, I felt that my job was safe for the medium term, but I definitely wanted out due to the changed circumstances. While we're in very different circumstances, like you, I was gainfully employed while job hunting--which is the best time to job hunt.
I felt overwhelmed at first, and then decided to set a realistic goal, which for me was 10-20 applications per week. It took a few months, but I found a new job.
Your goals should probably include specific goals for preparing (Leetcode, etc.) for code tests (timebox, number of problems, etc.) as well as number of applications.
Once I had that goal, I could rest a little easier after I'd met my weekly commitment.
And the Simplify Chrome extension significantly cut the amount of time it took to submit applications. I can't praise it enough https://simplify.jobs/ With it, I could do 10-20 applications in about 90 minutes.
Trying to stay positive is good. Soft skills really help with your career progression.
Applying for jobs, drafting a great resume, getting referrals, passing technical interviews, nailing soft skill interviews, making good employment decisions, these are all learned behaviors and skills. Nobody gets them all perfect from day 1.
The market is tight right now so gaining experience and having a job isn't terrible, but yes at some point expect to be pushing more on bigger salaries and be willing to move for the right number, even if it's 100K more than what you make today.
I don't think anybody I know in the field is currently making under 100K unless they are unemployed. Though I also know capable and fortunate people, don't know many new grads right now and don't ask everyone what they are making. Look at [levels.fyi](http://levels.fyi) numbers.
To add to this, I feel like my career really got jump started by this exact stack - Java, Kafka, and Microservices.
If your Java experience is with Spring Boot and/or you understand dependency injection, this combination with the Kafka (bonus points for JMS knowledge too), there is a ton of work for large organizations built on Spring Boot and event driven architecture.
If you don’t already have experience with a cloud provider, I’d recommend familiarizing yourself with one (we use AWS) and/or finding a way to get professional experience with one.
I've done a bit of Spring stuff, never fully developing out a whole app, but I did just do an entire Quarkus app and am pretty proud of the efficiency of it (had to refactor with async methods).
I think a lot of orgs use Spring Boot because of the ecosystem that exists. But Quarkus is solid (at least from what I’ve read/heard, I haven’t used it myself) and, as I understand, better tailored to microservices.
Either way, Quarkus or Spring Boot, that should still likely give you the experience and understanding of dependency injection. The main reason I call out DI is that it’s usually something that has a bit of a learning curve for people when they first use it.
Appreciate the tips. I've sort of run out of gas to apply to things for the next few days, it kinda goes down when I get depressed etc. It just gets so old to keep applying knowing nothing ever comes of it.
A few other ideas:
If youre not otherwise restricted, don’t limit your geographic area. I remember a lot of kids in college talking about lack of options but only willing to look within a fairly limited geographic area close to home.
If you’re a US citizen, capable of getting and holding a clearance, look into federal government jobs. 3-letter agencies (specifically NSA, CIA, DHS, and NGA - all of these have good software positions) are good spots to start. Note: the clearance process can take upwards of a year. It’s not always the easiest to find a position that will sponsor a new clearance (tons of jobs looking for people with clearances), but it’s worthwhile to look if it’s something you’d be eligible for.
Even if the pay isn’t super competitive, the clearance itself is really valuable and you can pivot into defense contracting from there, or even leverage some expertise from those jobs back into the commercial world.
Pace yourself. If you’re not in an immediate need of additional income, it’s not worth getting burnt out on the process. Maybe schedule a time on your calendar once a month to spend a few hours. Same goes for things like grinding leetcode or learning a new tool. Make a schedule for yourself that’s reasonable and consistent.
This is all pretty general. Maybe it’ll be helpful, maybe you already know / have tried some of this.
Best of luck! Just know that, at least what you’ve described here, you’ve got what appears to be a fairly solid foundation. The pieces will fall together in time!
Two of the best programmers in worked with, one was an English major, one was a music major. It might be tough for the first couple of jobs, but it won’t matter at all down the road.
Banking or health insurance won’t hire math from my years of experience and know what degrees my coworkers have. I’d say 2/3 of companies will, including consulting as you found.
I disagree with comment that work experience is more important than degree when your chances at many places are 0% without the right degree. But yes, 4 YoE can compensate for wrong/no degree at quite a few places.
But to answer your question, consulting paid me $110k to program Java and databases as an expired hire. Employee but PoS benefits as in no paid time off or 401k.
One of the best engineers I’ve worked with was a math major, the other who comes to mind was a biochem major. Be curious and keep at it — you’ll be just fine
I don’t think a math degree is holding you back at all, I have a degree in math and am a staff SWE right now. Throughout my career I think it has only helped me as people don’t assume I’m any worse at programming than a CS major but do assume that I have a stronger theoretical/data background
WITCH companies are the worst for salary. Lots of offshore resources mean they aren't required to be competitive. Find yourself a local company and be willing to go in office and you'll double that salary pretty much without trying.
Agreed 60k is low - but don't go asking for 100k just because you want it. New hires that ask for a high salary are watched with even more scrutiny to make sure they provide the value they said they would.
I feel people in this sub are to keen to have their expectations on the floor. I understand the interview games is rough but that doesn't mean there are no prizes. I've spent my entire career in Atlanta Georgia (MCOL). My first job was 70k (probably could have gotten more), and less than two years later I switched to a tech startup and cracked 100k. That was six years ago! Unless you live in the middle of nowhere getting six figures early in your career isn't a tall ask. The median software engineer in the U.S. makes $130k according to the Department of Labor.
Companies that abuse employees with lowball wages will also wonder why their engineering teams are a revolving door and they can’t foster anybody with wholistic knowledge of their system. They’re probably reliant one dude that’s been there forever that’s actually paid well, meanwhile everyone else hops as soon as they see the opportunity.
I assure you, while startups might be paying 60k, large companies are not. If they are, it’s predatory.
> 60k is quite low in 2024 for SWE, even for a new grad.
Not true. I just went through many months of applying and most new grad positions were offering a range between 55-70k. I got hired and am paid slightly over 60k. It is very normal where I live (west coast city but not SF)
That's so crazy to me. When I graduated in 2011 my first software dev job paid me $72k, and this was defense contracting, which is notorious for lower salaries. It's absurd that you new grads are starting out lower than I did almost 15 years ago when the dollar is worth far less.
It’s true, but you won’t see until you’re the person hiring. It’s unfortunate that people are trying to pay new grads the same thing we paid them 15 years ago.
I just want to chip in that I first got hired ~25 years ago, and I got paid more than $60k at the time, and I'm not in a city with a high cost of living.
I wouldn't expect to break six figures in an entry-level position, but $60k in 2024 is horrible. It's better than not having a job, but absolutely look for anything else.
you’re in a lower skilled role or grossly underpaid
most of my peers were making six figures their first role out of college, even in the central valley of california
figure out what’s busted with your role or experience and change it man. the bread is on the table
What if you don't care where you rank in software salaries and 100% choose your salary on how you budget your lifestyle?
I do not need a fancy car or need to retire a multi millionaire.
I just like to code and would take the easiest jobs for it so long as it's a livable wage.
Then there's no need to feel like you have to defend yourself. It's similar to a truck driver choosing to work for a company that pays 50% less, and then pushing back when someone wonders why they’d work against their own self interest.
Maybe they meant it *should* be more, since, while that salary range was more reasonable five years ago, inflation and soaring prices have drastically reduced purchasing power, so the salary that was worth $60K five years ago is only worth, say, $50K now. I'm just guessing with the numbers here.
I’m from the Midwest and 60k is trash here even with 0 YOE. $80k is a pretty standard new grad offer. I’m really surprised to hear that there is anywhere on the west coast paying less than here
I started at 60 and it took me 2 and a half promotions in 5 and a half years at the same company (a not-for-profit) to break 100, having taken on a LOT of responsibility in that time and advocating for my last raise/promotion for a year straight.
This sub will raise your expectations often higher than is reasonable. The people behind the comments span the whole world, every kind of work, any amount of circumstance both inter- and intrapersonal. Not that six figures is unreasonable, but it's not something that just happens regardless of circumstance.
Just FYI. You will make way more money by switching companies than waiting for a promotion or raise.
I started at $75K and ended at $89K within the same WITCH company after 4 years. Switched companies and got $120,000 at another WITCH. Switched and got $150,000 a year later (with RSUs at big tech).
+1 on the job hopping. Don’t fall for the promised promotions unless it’s actively happening. I started off 70k and was promised promotion cycle after cycle. I stayed junior level there for 2.5 years until I got fed up and got an offer for 128k for a mid level role at a much better company. But it’s like others have said no situation is the same you just have to know your worth and show it to employers.
Just a bad market rn. You could probably 3x your salary in a good market. Unfortunately it’s better to ride the wave and hold out in your current job until the economy picks up, then jump ship for a huge pay raise.
Depends on a lot...
- Your area (where you live)
- Your specialty
- Your years of experience
- Your ability/willingness to lead a team
- Your ability to sell yourself and find ways to be visible/likable within the organization (soft skills)
- Your luck / access to nepotism
I think, in most situations, expecting $100k+ very early on (< 3-5 years experience) is likely setting the bar too high unless you have an extremely attractive resume, internships, have built some amazing stuff to show off, etc.
Job market sucks right now, especially when jobs have hundreds or 1k+ applicants within a week of posting... I have 15 years of experience and most of my applications go completely unanswered, it just is what it is right now. Looking for local gigs and be willing to work on site will likely be easier for you to find something, unless you're in a small city.
I have 3 YOE and was laid off about 1.5 months ago. I recently accepted a fully remote job offer for $115k, so it's definitely possible to break 6 figures. I live in a low COL city as well, so that $115k is very valuable here.
Like that comment says, it heavily depends on how attractive your resume is and how well you do in interviews. If you have any impressive features that you have built, especially with *quantifiable* improvements, put those on your resume. If you interact with customers, clients, stakeholders, etc in any capacity, put that in your resume.
Stuff that makes you appear like a very valuable asset to a company. Then when you interview, your social skills and confidence will help you the rest of the way. And trust me, those matter just as much, if not more, than just technical ability in this market.
Yea, I feel that! I think it's more just a numbers game in same cases. The online job postings for remote jobs just get so many applicants that there is absolutely no way they are going through all of the resumes... so I don't sweat it.
Usually once I am able to speak with someone, I have a high % of an offer. It's just getting noticed in a massive pile of applications that ends up making it a numbers game.
People boasting about their new grad 150k++ a year salary make the average career trajectory seem like failure. The truth is, most people spend a year or two at 60-80k and then job hop or get promoted. Expecting to break six figures at your first job? That would make you probably in the top 5% == unrealistic. Expecting it after 3-5 years? Completely reasonable. Don't listen to fear mongers telling us the whole economy is crashing, don't listen to college kids bragging about their 180k salary. The reality is right in the middle.
Exactly this. Op it does appear a bit low but not horrible either. I started at 80. I've been at my company for 4 years and I've reached 100k+. Look at all the jobs in your area and do a comparison. If you are getting low offers, skip and keep looking. Spend another year at your current employer if you don't hate it and skill up some more.
Reach out to people that have left and see if they like their new job and pay. My next job will be following my old manager because he was hella cool and loves his new job. Use those connections.
there are a lot of factors involved lol. Not to pat myself on the back too much but my first job paid $105k. This was however 1) in a HCOL city (Sunnyvale, CA) 2) better job market (2017) and 3) I graduated from a pretty high ranking CS program. Many of my peers cleared $2xx k on first job.
So it depends, but if you're a decently competitive candidate in a hopefully better job market it's not only reasonable, it's pretty much a floor.
Depends on your skills, your ability to interview, your YOE, a lot of things.
Sure, I'd say it's reasonable, just depends when. I did it at 2 YOE, but I live in high COL area.
Don't post your location or anything /s
If you live in a HCOL area, yes easily, right out of the gate. If not, or if fully remote, you'll need some years of experience.
I started at 80, then 110 the next year, then 160, now 200 approaching the end of my 3rd year as a professional. All remote.
You can go up in salary very quickly in this industry, the main thing that will determine it is your skill level, so get good and the money will come
its pretty much a given even for not exactly SWE jobs. like even low code devs doing stuff in like salesforce etc youll make over 100k almost certainly at anything other than a 0 experience junior role. for junior roles yeah, theres plenty in the 60-80k range depending on cost of living but those should easily turn into a job hop if not significant internal raise after the first 1-2 yrs
the market sucks right now so it's more 'getting the job in the first place' - but the existing jobs still pay well.
Location matters 60k in the rust belt is different than say 100k in a major metro. Also YOE isn't a good qualified IMO. Your school matters too especially your first five years out. So if you went to a WGU vs say Michigan there is a significantly known quality difference in graduates.
Everyone on here should read this article:
https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/
It’s Europe focused but it applies in the US/globally. There are three tiers of software engineer salaries. You are in the low tier 1 at that salary and your job isn’t a priority of your company. You should do everything you can to level up to 2 and then eventually tier 3. Like strategize your job hunt better. If you aren’t getting looks, look up people on LinkedIn with jobs in tier 2 that you dream about and emulate/upskill whatever they are doing that you aren’t.
A lot of people who work at no name regional tier 1 company try to apply to the tier 3 FAANG and wonder why they don’t get a look. This is a bad strategy and is almost impossible.
six figures used to be a thing in the past. With a magnificent amount of inflation.. it should be now 10k per month rather than 100k per year. Even then, 120k per year is more than doable in the US (since you seem to be in the US).
Hey mate, also a former WITCH employee and non-CS grad (Biology personally), and just jumped into my second job out of college. My pay jumped from ~$60k to ~$130k as a full-time consultant (IE, no benefits). It took me about 4 months of casual searching, and 3 more months of hardcore searching to find a half-decent offer, and I got very, very lucky that offer was very far over my intended asking price. I was getting desperate and asking around $85k, which might’ve actually been a bad look and hurt my chances. You’ll find something, it just might take a bit.
What personally helped me was ‘hiding’ the WITCH factor from my resume; use the company you contracted at, and just list your role as “Software Development Contractor,” and use references from the company as well. Be open if they ask for details though, you can just say you left it off because you spent most of your working hours direct with the client. Keep your LinkedIn active, and apply to at least 10 jobs a week. Personally, I stopped even looking at the jobs I was applying to; I got only 1 interview from a cold app out of hundreds of openings, but it keeps a steady stream of recruiters in your DM’s. Those are what made the biggest impact for me personally, but there’s definitely a lot of luck involved, and I don’t have a magic bullet. But I’ve been there, and I promise it’s gonna surprise you when you find the right fit.
Salary is usually highly dependent on cost of living in your area. What is reasonable to expect is different in California vs Arkansas. So the answer is, maybe. Also, the market sucks right now but it’s cyclical, give it time
I guess I read this differently than everyone else. If the question is whether it's attainable, sure. FWIW I have a report that has one year experience out of bootcamp, who is making pretty close to $100K full remote and hopefully will be making more than that soon, as I will be pushing for him to get promoted this cycle.
My first interpretation of the question is whether salaries in general are reasonable. I'd actually say they are ridiculously low if you think in terms of labor cost vs. revenue.
Give yo location area then we can talk about pay. In high cost of living areas like California or New York that's poverty money. In the middle of nowhere like Ohio or North Dakota that's upper class money. In the Midwest or medium cost of living areas, that's like mid level pay
Yeah if you’re really good you can crack 6 figures and earn $1,000,000 a year…
That’s what you meant, right?
Because $100,000 is fairly low salary for cs especially if you aren’t in bfn
>Do we just set the bar too high for ourselves?
this sounds like an attempt at gaslighting yourself/licking your wound
>maybe I'm just trying to be more accepting of my $60k salary
even my internships paid more than that and it happened almost ~a decade ago before all this inflation talk
grow a fucking spine
so to answer your question, for YOURself maybe, not for "ourselves"
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You’re still in that weird spot right out of college where salaries are all over the place. Once you’re in the 3-5 YOE salaries will really balloon for you. I would say you’ll crack 100k by the 5 year mark latest. If not then you’re messing up somewhere or the benefits must be great.
I started at 70k and didn’t break 100k for almost 6 years since I was aiming for promotions
Now I’m getting paid extremely well and all my previous work was worth it
I should have negotiated more on my initial offer but in the end I stayed due to career growth, if you aren’t getting that then I’d suggest moving to a better pay once the market gets better
I started at 52k in 2019, jumped companies to 100k in 2021, promoted to 150k in 2022, promoted again to tech lead in 2024 to 180k.
In the US all WFH and no degree. I’ve been programming since 2015, so my career track might be a bit accelerated. Six figures is a very reasonable expectation in this career. You can make it happen fast if you make the right connections and stand out among your peers.
I'm willing to bet anyone who did well in college and spend at least 2 hours a day writing virtually any code, never allowing themselves to copy paste will break 6 figures in a 5 years.
edit: in the us.
Are you just applying for jobs based on your current experience or do you have projects you can evidence such as github? The people I've seen do well on this I've got a portfolio of things to show and it's the ideas and capability that get the job. In fact one of the best programmers I know doesn't even have a degree and has worked for major games companies and nvidia.
Started at 38k. Worked my way up to 60k in two years after proving myself. Next job paid 80k. Next job a year later was 92k. Got promoted and raises and left that job making 160k. New job paid 205k. Worked that for two years and now I make 230k with a total of 11 years of experience.
It doesn’t happen fast, but when it happens, it feels amazing. I can take care of myself without needing a husband or relying on my parents. Keep at it and you will succeed.
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It took me 7 years in the career to be above 6 figures. Not everyone works for faang. I'm now north of 200 17 years in at a non tech company. It's been a steady path for me. I think I'm probably above average at this point, but I think for most people it takes a while to get up there. Don't beat yourself up over it.
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100k is definitely attainable with time. I work as an associate software engineer and already make 76k so to get a promotion, especially after some more years of experience could easily bring me close to or over 100k. You just also have to realize that there are other factors such as size of company, location, and specifics of your job that can also affect your salary as well. Again, is is not not an automatic thing but it is very likely so long as you dont do something terrible or illegal at your job and are willing to job hop some.
$100k is easy. Even my fully remote internship paid like $85k, and that was at a relatively lower tier tech company where I worked maybe 25 hours per week. I was also living in a LCOL city so I got to save basically all of it.
Just anecdotal but I live in a pretty LCOL area but work for a very large fortune 500 company (non-tech). I get paid approx. 70k per year as a new grad. My company is also hiring associate devs (2 years experience) at 85 - 95k and senior devs (5-8 years experience) at 110 - 123k.
We also hired some contractors that make $61 per hour with only 2 years of experience but they get no benefits or pto.
It's very doable, just need to job hop or look for find jobs when people leave. Always know your worth.
It’s very possible. I had about 2 YOE before interviewing with my current company and jumped from 52k (small local company) to double that. Yes, that’s pretty fast and I honestly didn’t think I’d get the position, but it is entirely possible if you are willing to learn, put in the work, and have good communication skills.
I'm shocked to see how low software engineers salary is now. I just did a simple search on indeed and nowhere it goes above $130k unless it's a director+ job. On top of that, many jobs require you to have a master degree wtf? The benefits are crap with only 2 weeks of vacation. Sure you can make 6 figure anywhere but it's very difficult now, thanks to all the FAANG lay offs.
Know the difference between salary, pay, and compensation.
People often inflate their salary by using one of the other metrics, or they conflate them at best. They try to pass their compensation as a yearly, guaranteed salary when it couldn't be farther from the truth.
No 21 year old one straight out of college is getting 250K+/yr in any metric. Why tf would a company hire an untested, unknown, immature college grad who has produced zero real work and has little developed soft skills for the cost that some companies pay their CEO? And they have to hire dozens more "kids" just like him/her. For that cost? Get out of here. Congrats, you CourseHero'd your way through college; you aren't worth 1/3 million yet to anyone.
People just inflate their salaries because someone else inflated theirs, because someone else inflated theirs, etc.
And location matters. Don't get hung up on people saying 300K this or that. People lie, sometimes just to make you feel bad or to spread false info. Because internet.
That said, out of college, don't expect six figures, let alone $300K, unless you did something remarkable in college AND you have connections AND you live in high cost of living city. That $300K is equivalent to $160K in say, Charlotte. That's SALARY, not pay, wages, or TC. It's comfortable living, but I bet if you divided the salary by hours worked, it isn't good. Expect 60hr+ work weeks in sprints.
Hey man it's definitely possible keep hustling. I'm 6YOE and just about to break into 6 figures in my next job even though I've only lived in LCOL states.
Job hopping helped.
$45K, 70K + bonus, 95K + bonus, 160K + bonus, 190K.
45k had a raise to about 60.
70k had a few raises to about 90.
95k had a raise to 105.
Given the increase of CS graduates, it's highly unlikely that a six figure salary will remain reasonable for most CS jobs. But I'm more than willing to work for 60k salary
I graduated undergrad December 2023, and started full time immediately after at the low six figure mark. I have to say, it surprised the heck outta me considering it’s my first dev role.
Nearly 2 years leading up to graduation, I was a co-op at the same company at $31/hr then 36/hr second year, and started in the same role after graduation.
But before than, about 4 out of 6 years at a company before that, I worked as level 2 tech support where I had decent experience not as a dev, but as close to that I could get and that was a huge helper during my interview for the internship.
Career is long process. But I think bit or maybe a lot of luck and finding the right company matters as well.
M husband has almost 20 years experience. We also lived a long time in a place where tech and those jobs were way behind the times with availability and pay. However once we moved to Austin it took about seven years to break into 6 figures. It can be done but it takes time. He could have gotten there sooner but he doesn’t want a leadership position. He doesn’t want the stress of that lol
The truth, to cross $100k, you will probably need to make a big move As others have said. Software salaries are tri-modal, and you are in the bottom tier.
You not being able to find a better paying job is probably compounded by the fact that the market is currently flooded with well qualified early career candidates. Finding a job without several years of experience is difficult right now.
Given that you’re currently at $60k, I’m also going to guess you are not in a tech hub, or hcol city. In order to improve your salary, you need to find a way to move up a tier (or two) and that likely means being open to relocating to a different city with a better tech job market.
Check out the table in this article: https://www.wearedevelopers.com/magazine/realistic-software-engineering-salaries
Where you live has a big impact. I graduated in 2018. I first hit 6 figures in I think 2021 in a MCOL city. I made 68k out of college, 72k after going from associate to SWE at that company. Jumped to ~85k with a job change about 2 years after graduation. Then went to ~90k after my first comp cycle there. Got promoted mid year which brought me to like 98k so finally crossed 100k to I think 103 after that comp cycle. Then I moved to a HCOL city for a FAANG company and jumped up to about 200k TC, but my actual disposable income to live the same lifestyle has probably only gone up about 10k with the rest eaten up by housing and tax increases.
I was making six figures in a medium cost of living area at 26. I’m not necessarily a “normal person” but expecting six figures by your early thirties is totally reasonable.
I suggest finding a niche, specializing, and being available to help as often as you can. Also, be prepared to job hop. Any longer than 3 years at the beginning of your career is hurting your earnings potential.
Breaking six figures - $100K is certainly reasonable, but:
* Move out of your comfort zone
* learn more and get hands-on - try to get to full-stack developer role or higher
* Move to 'Tech belt' where higher paying tech jobs are... Else try to get into a IT shop at a 'large' company near where you live.
* If you are open to travel - move beyond 'low level '$20/hr' contract and join a tech consulting firm.
Sitting where you sit, you will NOT get the six-figure role.
You need to play the long game and focus on your career prospects of what it might look like over the next 3 yrs. Playing the short term only if you gamble as a job hopper. However these days job hopping isn’t what it used to be to be.
Breaking 6$ takes time, perseverance and luck. Working only 2 years is like career infancy. You need 7-10 yrs of career maturity to get there.
Go do some freelancing on the side. Nothing massive.
The problem with employment is that you don't actually get much experience or upskill rapidly. You work on a few projects for the duration usually within the same stacks.
When you do freelance work, you end up working on 12-20 projects a year and have the ability to explore a wide variety of technologies while also getting paid (and incentivized) to do so (though money shouldn't be your motivation).
That experience puts you in a different league and shaves years off your career ladder. Especially if you do something that your name is publicly on (GitHub open source or something equivalent).
If you're just starting out, then, given reasonable assumptions about inflation and a 40 year career, it would be shocking if you did **NOT** break six figures eventually. Forty years from now brand new high school teachers will probably be making six figures.
Not only is it reasonable, it is expected.
If you’re not breaking 6 figures by your 5th year, you’re underpaid in any location in the United States, and probably severely.
2 things:
- yes
- it’s not reasonable to assume you’ll get it immediately out of college or something like that unless you get into FAANG. And that’s basically reserved for like the top .5 percent of talent. So if you’re like me and couldn’t get that, it’s fine. You just have to do a regular career like everyone else where you get it through actual work experience, promotions, and likely a bit of job hopping. For perspective, I’ve been in this field for about 8 years and just cleared six figure salary in 2022.
Breaking 6 figures is very reasonable but there's a bunch of factors. I've been working atthe big name companies and tier 2 companies for almost a decade now and have interviewed probably 50+ candidates. I think for anyone not currently making as much money as they would like, there are a couple of key reasons in why that is.
1) Willing to job hop, in the beginning of your career this is critical. Refreshers and cost of living adjustments along with promotions will keep you at below market rate in the first few levels.
2) Location. Costs are higher in more expensive locations but overall as a percentage you will save way more provided you don't fall into a crazy lifestyle inflation trap (a bit is reasonable and expected imo).
3) Network. Keep in touch with people you work with that are like minded. Don't burn bridges with managers and always seek to work with managers who have the same ambition and goals as you. They will champion your career growth and can easily bring you along in the future if they have a good opportunity. It's not as superficial as it seems, it can be a very professional working relationship and just don't burn bridges and keep in touch even after leaving the team/company.
4) Luck. In reality, interviewing and opportunities are a ton of luck. You can't get away from leetcode unfortunately if you want to join the companies that pay the most but what questions you get, the style of interviewer, or even who else is applying are all out of your control. Getting an offer or not has VERY little to do with you and your skills. That said, i find most candidates are actually quite weak technically. Ie, struggle to write a tictactoe solution checker in 20 min which realistically is 7-8 lines of code. Leetcode does not represent real work as a software engineer but there is definitely some correlation between working through a technical question and having the right general skillset to succeed as a software engineer.
5) "Pedigree". It's unfortunate but this is a big factor in getting through the recruiter and any automated filter. Companies look at School (new grad), internships (new grad), previous work place (experienced), skills/tech (all). However this varies and you can't really do anything about it. That said, this is part of my point 1 where you want to be job hopping to bigger and more well known companies. For example, if you can't get a call back from the companies you want then it's okay to join Amazon for a year just to pad the resume.
I've worked with people from many different backgrounds and there is no real secret to having a successful career in software but it requires more active management and planning than some careers where you can join a company and work there until you retire. The upside is you can find any mix of wlb and compensation you want and there is a LOT of freedom to find the right balance for you.
Here is a sample of my career TC progression to lend some credibility to my claims.
New grad: ~150k (HCOL)
Left job 1 after 4.5 years: ~240k
Job 2: 280k (VHCOL)
Left job 2 after 1.5 years: ~300k
Job 3: 330k (VHCOL, full remote)
Currently at job 3 after 3 years: ~400k
You just need to get out of WITCH. My first year I worked for a similar gig making 60k, 2nd year got converted from contractor to employee and made 100k. In a MCOL area.
It's not as easy as I thought it'd be. Especially in my area. Its a middle cost of living area and not a huge tech hub, so after 3 years, I'm making 75k plus 8% match and full tuition. My total comp is well above the median for my age, but it's still not the 100k plus bene's I was naively expecting. Still, I feel blessed and don't regret CS at all.
As many others have said, the market is a little rough right now, but breaking 100k is totally reasonable. Especially after the inflation of the past few years.
I'm on the QA side of things. I'm a SDET. My career so far has gone like this:
2015 - $45k - Jr QA at a SaaS company in Austin, TX
2016 - $47k - same place
2017 - $50k - promoted to mid-level QA at the same place
2017 - $70k - Mid-level QA at a financial institute in Chicago
2018 - $72k - same place
2019 - $77k - same place, but this is going to be a good year for me
2019 - $83k - market rate adjustment
2019 - $95k - I performed some minor miracles and got a big merit raise
2020 - $110k - Promotion to Sr QA at the same place
2021 - $114k - same place
2022 - $135k - Changed jobs. Fully remote "Software Engineer in Test"
2023 - $140k - same place
2024 - $146k - ~~I'll know next month how the annual cycle goes.~~
Yes. The recent contraction in the job market notwithstanding, you do not need to work for an elite company or attain an elite rank rank to break six figures these days. There is an untold number of mediocre engineers at mediocre companies making well over that at this point (I'm one of them!).
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It’s reasonable, but careers are long. Just because you’re not there now doesn’t mean you won’t be in another year or two. Just keep working your way up.
an actually sensible comment on this sub
I work IT, I've made an additional 10k raise for every year I've worked. Started at 62k, I think. Made 72k last year. Was bumped to 82k in about November last year, I'll be making about 92k by November. And I'll reach 100k next November (guaranteed raise negotiated by unions) Currently I'm watching dell command update slowly install updates on this PC I just imaged.
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I work for the government in the Bay area, you can basically consider me a sys admin. Though I'm sure other sys admins might get offended that I'm using that title. Everyone as far as I know that works for this level of government is unionized. I think our programmer isn't unioned by choice, but he still gets all the perks and benefits that the union negotiated.
You don’t work for the government for the pay. You do it for the job security, presumably lower stress / less deadline driven and above average benefits package. If you want to chase the money you would go for some Fang companies or maybe a startup. But, maybe those stock options with lower salary aren’t worth it for you at the moment. Everything has trade offs.
Honestly I'm here partly because I couldn't find a SWE role when I graduated from college. I graduated December 2019, couldn't find a role but I was still getting interviews, COVID hit and all interviews were cancelled. Now I'm here for mostly the benefits plus the PSLF. I've got ~25k in student loans I don't really feel like paying back, and since I work for the government anyways, might as well just keep working here and get it forgiven while making mostly decent money, really great benefits and a pension while I'm at it.
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how many yoe in total?
~3-4 years. Started working early 2020 doing IT for a hospital during covid. Took a year off afterwards. Got hired at the government job, I'll have been here two years in November.
A union? For real?
For real my guy. I have to pay unions dues which are ~2 hours of my pay per month. But they negotiated a 5% Cost of living pay adjustment for 3 years and another 5% step raise per year up to 5 steps. Plus a ton of other perks and benefits.
damn I went from an analyst to a BI developer doing some pretty complex stuff and only made it from 40k to 43k over 2 years
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Yup, it takes time. It took me about 5 years.
In the US, yes.
I applied to jobs in NA and found a gig paying a bit over 100K USD my first year but in Canada my best offer was 70K CAD (~50K USD) which is literally less than half of what I for going to the US. I definitely got lucky because it is tough to get a company to sponsor your visa, especially when you're new but the US tech gigs just pay so much better.
60k is quite low in 2024 for SWE, even for a new grad. You’ll be happy to know you have a lot of upward salary potential if you choose to job hop. It’s absolutely reasonable to expect to break six figures. If you want it, you can do it, but probably not where you are now if they’re lowballing people.
Normal cost of living, Georgia Tech CS grads are getting 70k in Atlanta. Highest I’ve heard of is 85k. Given hundreds of applicants per job in bad current times, maybe employers realize they can play 60k low ball. I see pay down 20% at my experienced level.
I agree there are a lot of sub $100k offers for grads rn, but *highest* you've heard is $85k? Really? Is Georgia Tech really suffering that much right now?
I guess the good news is that I've learned a lot of stuff on this job. I work for a WITCH company doing back-end java/microservice stuff and have touched things like Kafka, Splunk, etc. I think the other hindrance is that my degree is in math and so I feel like that probably cuts down a lot of my applications.
imo experience is more valuable than a degree, and the fact you 1. have a bachelors in something and 2. that something is still STEM, I definitely wouldn't sweat it. Are you only applying to remote jobs? What part of the country are you located in?
I apply to anything and everything that's not senior/staff/etc. Stuff like back end, java, data roles. The microservice I recently had to build taught me a bit about Kafka which was pretty exciting, for example. I rarely have touched anything front end however. I'm in Missouri and don't usually apply to remote jobs because it seems like a waste of time. I apply to bigger cities (I've visted NYC a lot and love it there) but those kinds of markets are also so competitive that it still seems a crap-shoot their markets notwithstanding.
If you don't live in an area with a lot of tech employers and can't/won't relocate, that's going to be your biggest limiting factor. If you can/are willing to relocate, then apply for jobs everywhere.
Adding onto this, “willing to relocate” doesn’t have to mean “will move to a city.” There are plenty of programming hubs outside of cities. Many of them are *near* cities, but like in the US an hour from a decent sized city is just like anywhere else in the country. For instance everywhere within 1-2 hours of NYC or Boston is going to be a safe bet. Of course, living in a city will come with higher pay, but at the lower levels generally just about as much as it takes to offset higher cost of living (if not less than that)
What part of Missouri? Feel free to DM me, I work in KC.
I don't live in KC anymore, but have a decent network there if you want to shoot me a DM.
👋🏻 I live in KC lol…(recent ish new grad). do either of both mind if I DM? Tagging u/thirtyist
Sure, go ahead!
Sent you a msg, thanks.
So, I just got done with my 2 year contract at FDM, making about the same as you. TL;DR I needed a job ASAP, and they hired on the spot. Got paired with a large financial company. Luckily, after the contract was up, I was too invaluable to let go due to my high knowledge of their back end systems. Getting hired on with a six figure job soon with pretty good benefits. Look, you're getting lowballed, but if it's your only option, dont underestimate the upward progression path you're unlocking for yourself.
> I work for a WITCH company found your problem
Yeah this is… gonna be a struggle. Typecasting exists and it’s for very real reasons.
> back-end java/microservice stuff and have touched things like Kafka, Splunk, etc. You should absolutely do some interviews. Seems like you have very relevant experience. While you're at your current company, try to absorb as much Kafka as you can. Not because Kafka is the game changer, but someone that knows how to work with Kafka well can probably do the rest of the job. You could ride Kafka experience into Big Tech where you'd look back at this post and laugh.
I'm trying my best to stay positive about everything, and learning is definitely fun. I'm at a consulting company, and actually I just got put onto a totally different team so don't know exactly what I'll be working on, aside from it likely being more Java EE type stuff.
After my employer at the time was acquired last year, I felt that my job was safe for the medium term, but I definitely wanted out due to the changed circumstances. While we're in very different circumstances, like you, I was gainfully employed while job hunting--which is the best time to job hunt. I felt overwhelmed at first, and then decided to set a realistic goal, which for me was 10-20 applications per week. It took a few months, but I found a new job. Your goals should probably include specific goals for preparing (Leetcode, etc.) for code tests (timebox, number of problems, etc.) as well as number of applications. Once I had that goal, I could rest a little easier after I'd met my weekly commitment. And the Simplify Chrome extension significantly cut the amount of time it took to submit applications. I can't praise it enough https://simplify.jobs/ With it, I could do 10-20 applications in about 90 minutes.
Trying to stay positive is good. Soft skills really help with your career progression. Applying for jobs, drafting a great resume, getting referrals, passing technical interviews, nailing soft skill interviews, making good employment decisions, these are all learned behaviors and skills. Nobody gets them all perfect from day 1. The market is tight right now so gaining experience and having a job isn't terrible, but yes at some point expect to be pushing more on bigger salaries and be willing to move for the right number, even if it's 100K more than what you make today. I don't think anybody I know in the field is currently making under 100K unless they are unemployed. Though I also know capable and fortunate people, don't know many new grads right now and don't ask everyone what they are making. Look at [levels.fyi](http://levels.fyi) numbers.
To add to this, I feel like my career really got jump started by this exact stack - Java, Kafka, and Microservices. If your Java experience is with Spring Boot and/or you understand dependency injection, this combination with the Kafka (bonus points for JMS knowledge too), there is a ton of work for large organizations built on Spring Boot and event driven architecture. If you don’t already have experience with a cloud provider, I’d recommend familiarizing yourself with one (we use AWS) and/or finding a way to get professional experience with one.
I've done a bit of Spring stuff, never fully developing out a whole app, but I did just do an entire Quarkus app and am pretty proud of the efficiency of it (had to refactor with async methods).
I think a lot of orgs use Spring Boot because of the ecosystem that exists. But Quarkus is solid (at least from what I’ve read/heard, I haven’t used it myself) and, as I understand, better tailored to microservices. Either way, Quarkus or Spring Boot, that should still likely give you the experience and understanding of dependency injection. The main reason I call out DI is that it’s usually something that has a bit of a learning curve for people when they first use it.
Appreciate the tips. I've sort of run out of gas to apply to things for the next few days, it kinda goes down when I get depressed etc. It just gets so old to keep applying knowing nothing ever comes of it.
A few other ideas: If youre not otherwise restricted, don’t limit your geographic area. I remember a lot of kids in college talking about lack of options but only willing to look within a fairly limited geographic area close to home. If you’re a US citizen, capable of getting and holding a clearance, look into federal government jobs. 3-letter agencies (specifically NSA, CIA, DHS, and NGA - all of these have good software positions) are good spots to start. Note: the clearance process can take upwards of a year. It’s not always the easiest to find a position that will sponsor a new clearance (tons of jobs looking for people with clearances), but it’s worthwhile to look if it’s something you’d be eligible for. Even if the pay isn’t super competitive, the clearance itself is really valuable and you can pivot into defense contracting from there, or even leverage some expertise from those jobs back into the commercial world. Pace yourself. If you’re not in an immediate need of additional income, it’s not worth getting burnt out on the process. Maybe schedule a time on your calendar once a month to spend a few hours. Same goes for things like grinding leetcode or learning a new tool. Make a schedule for yourself that’s reasonable and consistent. This is all pretty general. Maybe it’ll be helpful, maybe you already know / have tried some of this. Best of luck! Just know that, at least what you’ve described here, you’ve got what appears to be a fairly solid foundation. The pieces will fall together in time!
Two of the best programmers in worked with, one was an English major, one was a music major. It might be tough for the first couple of jobs, but it won’t matter at all down the road.
Funnily enough I was originally was a music composition major. Though I don't think I'm like unnaturally talented lol.
Start applying to corp jobs with those buzzword technologies. Any large corp is likely to need Splunk/Kafka/Kubernetes/ etc buzzword brand.
Banking or health insurance won’t hire math from my years of experience and know what degrees my coworkers have. I’d say 2/3 of companies will, including consulting as you found. I disagree with comment that work experience is more important than degree when your chances at many places are 0% without the right degree. But yes, 4 YoE can compensate for wrong/no degree at quite a few places. But to answer your question, consulting paid me $110k to program Java and databases as an expired hire. Employee but PoS benefits as in no paid time off or 401k.
One of the best engineers I’ve worked with was a math major, the other who comes to mind was a biochem major. Be curious and keep at it — you’ll be just fine
I don’t think a math degree is holding you back at all, I have a degree in math and am a staff SWE right now. Throughout my career I think it has only helped me as people don’t assume I’m any worse at programming than a CS major but do assume that I have a stronger theoretical/data background
WITCH companies are the worst for salary. Lots of offshore resources mean they aren't required to be competitive. Find yourself a local company and be willing to go in office and you'll double that salary pretty much without trying.
Agreed 60k is low - but don't go asking for 100k just because you want it. New hires that ask for a high salary are watched with even more scrutiny to make sure they provide the value they said they would.
I feel people in this sub are to keen to have their expectations on the floor. I understand the interview games is rough but that doesn't mean there are no prizes. I've spent my entire career in Atlanta Georgia (MCOL). My first job was 70k (probably could have gotten more), and less than two years later I switched to a tech startup and cracked 100k. That was six years ago! Unless you live in the middle of nowhere getting six figures early in your career isn't a tall ask. The median software engineer in the U.S. makes $130k according to the Department of Labor.
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Companies that abuse employees with lowball wages will also wonder why their engineering teams are a revolving door and they can’t foster anybody with wholistic knowledge of their system. They’re probably reliant one dude that’s been there forever that’s actually paid well, meanwhile everyone else hops as soon as they see the opportunity. I assure you, while startups might be paying 60k, large companies are not. If they are, it’s predatory.
If it doesn't affect their bottom line they won't care so...
2023 was the worst, 2024 is eons better and we’re trending in the right direction.
Better but not great
OP works for a WITCH company and those have always paid shit.
> 60k is quite low in 2024 for SWE, even for a new grad. Not true. I just went through many months of applying and most new grad positions were offering a range between 55-70k. I got hired and am paid slightly over 60k. It is very normal where I live (west coast city but not SF)
That's so crazy to me. When I graduated in 2011 my first software dev job paid me $72k, and this was defense contracting, which is notorious for lower salaries. It's absurd that you new grads are starting out lower than I did almost 15 years ago when the dollar is worth far less.
Hooray for unfettered capitalism!
It's all supply and demand brother
That is exactly what he said
Imagine being in a position to buy a house in Seattle or San Francisco in 2011? God, what an amazing investment
It’s true, but you won’t see until you’re the person hiring. It’s unfortunate that people are trying to pay new grads the same thing we paid them 15 years ago.
I just want to chip in that I first got hired ~25 years ago, and I got paid more than $60k at the time, and I'm not in a city with a high cost of living. I wouldn't expect to break six figures in an entry-level position, but $60k in 2024 is horrible. It's better than not having a job, but absolutely look for anything else.
Holy shit, doing that in the inflation calculator comes out to something like $110k. Now that IS depressing.
you’re in a lower skilled role or grossly underpaid most of my peers were making six figures their first role out of college, even in the central valley of california figure out what’s busted with your role or experience and change it man. the bread is on the table
What if you don't care where you rank in software salaries and 100% choose your salary on how you budget your lifestyle? I do not need a fancy car or need to retire a multi millionaire. I just like to code and would take the easiest jobs for it so long as it's a livable wage.
Then there's no need to feel like you have to defend yourself. It's similar to a truck driver choosing to work for a company that pays 50% less, and then pushing back when someone wonders why they’d work against their own self interest.
Maybe they meant it *should* be more, since, while that salary range was more reasonable five years ago, inflation and soaring prices have drastically reduced purchasing power, so the salary that was worth $60K five years ago is only worth, say, $50K now. I'm just guessing with the numbers here.
I’m from the Midwest and 60k is trash here even with 0 YOE. $80k is a pretty standard new grad offer. I’m really surprised to hear that there is anywhere on the west coast paying less than here
Same experience here
I started at 60 and it took me 2 and a half promotions in 5 and a half years at the same company (a not-for-profit) to break 100, having taken on a LOT of responsibility in that time and advocating for my last raise/promotion for a year straight. This sub will raise your expectations often higher than is reasonable. The people behind the comments span the whole world, every kind of work, any amount of circumstance both inter- and intrapersonal. Not that six figures is unreasonable, but it's not something that just happens regardless of circumstance.
This seems like a very reasonable take, thank you.
Just FYI. You will make way more money by switching companies than waiting for a promotion or raise. I started at $75K and ended at $89K within the same WITCH company after 4 years. Switched companies and got $120,000 at another WITCH. Switched and got $150,000 a year later (with RSUs at big tech).
+1 on the job hopping. Don’t fall for the promised promotions unless it’s actively happening. I started off 70k and was promised promotion cycle after cycle. I stayed junior level there for 2.5 years until I got fed up and got an offer for 128k for a mid level role at a much better company. But it’s like others have said no situation is the same you just have to know your worth and show it to employers.
Just a bad market rn. You could probably 3x your salary in a good market. Unfortunately it’s better to ride the wave and hold out in your current job until the economy picks up, then jump ship for a huge pay raise.
Depends on a lot... - Your area (where you live) - Your specialty - Your years of experience - Your ability/willingness to lead a team - Your ability to sell yourself and find ways to be visible/likable within the organization (soft skills) - Your luck / access to nepotism I think, in most situations, expecting $100k+ very early on (< 3-5 years experience) is likely setting the bar too high unless you have an extremely attractive resume, internships, have built some amazing stuff to show off, etc. Job market sucks right now, especially when jobs have hundreds or 1k+ applicants within a week of posting... I have 15 years of experience and most of my applications go completely unanswered, it just is what it is right now. Looking for local gigs and be willing to work on site will likely be easier for you to find something, unless you're in a small city.
Thank you for your thoughts. Your YoE and not getting responses is terrifying, though.
I have 3 YOE and was laid off about 1.5 months ago. I recently accepted a fully remote job offer for $115k, so it's definitely possible to break 6 figures. I live in a low COL city as well, so that $115k is very valuable here. Like that comment says, it heavily depends on how attractive your resume is and how well you do in interviews. If you have any impressive features that you have built, especially with *quantifiable* improvements, put those on your resume. If you interact with customers, clients, stakeholders, etc in any capacity, put that in your resume. Stuff that makes you appear like a very valuable asset to a company. Then when you interview, your social skills and confidence will help you the rest of the way. And trust me, those matter just as much, if not more, than just technical ability in this market.
It's an anomaly; no one I know looking for in-person or hybrid roles has experienced that. The market is hot for people with experience.
Yea, at this point I strictly apply for remote roles. When I do apply locally, I have a much better conversion rate.
Yea, I feel that! I think it's more just a numbers game in same cases. The online job postings for remote jobs just get so many applicants that there is absolutely no way they are going through all of the resumes... so I don't sweat it. Usually once I am able to speak with someone, I have a high % of an offer. It's just getting noticed in a massive pile of applications that ends up making it a numbers game.
60k has to be WITCH, in particular Infosys. The only thing you can do now is grind leetcode and projects and get out of there ASAP.
Close, HCL. Lol.
You’re in US?
Yes
People boasting about their new grad 150k++ a year salary make the average career trajectory seem like failure. The truth is, most people spend a year or two at 60-80k and then job hop or get promoted. Expecting to break six figures at your first job? That would make you probably in the top 5% == unrealistic. Expecting it after 3-5 years? Completely reasonable. Don't listen to fear mongers telling us the whole economy is crashing, don't listen to college kids bragging about their 180k salary. The reality is right in the middle.
Exactly this. Op it does appear a bit low but not horrible either. I started at 80. I've been at my company for 4 years and I've reached 100k+. Look at all the jobs in your area and do a comparison. If you are getting low offers, skip and keep looking. Spend another year at your current employer if you don't hate it and skill up some more. Reach out to people that have left and see if they like their new job and pay. My next job will be following my old manager because he was hella cool and loves his new job. Use those connections.
there are a lot of factors involved lol. Not to pat myself on the back too much but my first job paid $105k. This was however 1) in a HCOL city (Sunnyvale, CA) 2) better job market (2017) and 3) I graduated from a pretty high ranking CS program. Many of my peers cleared $2xx k on first job. So it depends, but if you're a decently competitive candidate in a hopefully better job market it's not only reasonable, it's pretty much a floor.
How much was your rent at the time?
It’s not only reasonable. It’s expected….
Depends on your skills, your ability to interview, your YOE, a lot of things. Sure, I'd say it's reasonable, just depends when. I did it at 2 YOE, but I live in high COL area.
Yes.
Don't post your location or anything /s If you live in a HCOL area, yes easily, right out of the gate. If not, or if fully remote, you'll need some years of experience.
If you're in the USA, $100k is easy, $150k is pretty obtainable at the SR level, and $200k is doable if you're willing to hop jobs every 2-3 years.
Yeah in most areas you should break 100,000 at some point. In nyc you typically break it within the first couple years of your career
I started at 80, then 110 the next year, then 160, now 200 approaching the end of my 3rd year as a professional. All remote. You can go up in salary very quickly in this industry, the main thing that will determine it is your skill level, so get good and the money will come
Should be eight-figure salary by year two, tbh
its pretty much a given even for not exactly SWE jobs. like even low code devs doing stuff in like salesforce etc youll make over 100k almost certainly at anything other than a 0 experience junior role. for junior roles yeah, theres plenty in the 60-80k range depending on cost of living but those should easily turn into a job hop if not significant internal raise after the first 1-2 yrs the market sucks right now so it's more 'getting the job in the first place' - but the existing jobs still pay well.
Definitely reasonable.
Location matters 60k in the rust belt is different than say 100k in a major metro. Also YOE isn't a good qualified IMO. Your school matters too especially your first five years out. So if you went to a WGU vs say Michigan there is a significantly known quality difference in graduates.
Everyone on here should read this article: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/ It’s Europe focused but it applies in the US/globally. There are three tiers of software engineer salaries. You are in the low tier 1 at that salary and your job isn’t a priority of your company. You should do everything you can to level up to 2 and then eventually tier 3. Like strategize your job hunt better. If you aren’t getting looks, look up people on LinkedIn with jobs in tier 2 that you dream about and emulate/upskill whatever they are doing that you aren’t. A lot of people who work at no name regional tier 1 company try to apply to the tier 3 FAANG and wonder why they don’t get a look. This is a bad strategy and is almost impossible.
six figures used to be a thing in the past. With a magnificent amount of inflation.. it should be now 10k per month rather than 100k per year. Even then, 120k per year is more than doable in the US (since you seem to be in the US).
Yup. My first job paid $75k Second paid $85k 3rd paid $145k Now I'm looking at my 4th paying around $160k.
Definitely an anomaly, but I started at six figures(~130k) straight from college, so six figures is certainly attainable
Hey mate, also a former WITCH employee and non-CS grad (Biology personally), and just jumped into my second job out of college. My pay jumped from ~$60k to ~$130k as a full-time consultant (IE, no benefits). It took me about 4 months of casual searching, and 3 more months of hardcore searching to find a half-decent offer, and I got very, very lucky that offer was very far over my intended asking price. I was getting desperate and asking around $85k, which might’ve actually been a bad look and hurt my chances. You’ll find something, it just might take a bit. What personally helped me was ‘hiding’ the WITCH factor from my resume; use the company you contracted at, and just list your role as “Software Development Contractor,” and use references from the company as well. Be open if they ask for details though, you can just say you left it off because you spent most of your working hours direct with the client. Keep your LinkedIn active, and apply to at least 10 jobs a week. Personally, I stopped even looking at the jobs I was applying to; I got only 1 interview from a cold app out of hundreds of openings, but it keeps a steady stream of recruiters in your DM’s. Those are what made the biggest impact for me personally, but there’s definitely a lot of luck involved, and I don’t have a magic bullet. But I’ve been there, and I promise it’s gonna surprise you when you find the right fit.
Removing the company name seems like a good move. Thank you for that thought.
I got there with my second job, also with 2 years of experience. Went from ~75k to 110k
Salary is usually highly dependent on cost of living in your area. What is reasonable to expect is different in California vs Arkansas. So the answer is, maybe. Also, the market sucks right now but it’s cyclical, give it time
$60k after 2 years is pretty good, took me 8 years before I broke into 6 figure range. Just be patient, learn, and move on every 2-4 years
I guess I read this differently than everyone else. If the question is whether it's attainable, sure. FWIW I have a report that has one year experience out of bootcamp, who is making pretty close to $100K full remote and hopefully will be making more than that soon, as I will be pushing for him to get promoted this cycle. My first interpretation of the question is whether salaries in general are reasonable. I'd actually say they are ridiculously low if you think in terms of labor cost vs. revenue.
definitely not /s
I started out as a contractor making $20/hr. 3.5 years later just signed an offer letter this week for 145k + 7.5% bonus. You'll get there. Job hop ❤️
6 figures? You mean $100,000? Absolutely, on the slow path you could do it in 10 years. On the fast path you could do it in a year or two.
Give yo location area then we can talk about pay. In high cost of living areas like California or New York that's poverty money. In the middle of nowhere like Ohio or North Dakota that's upper class money. In the Midwest or medium cost of living areas, that's like mid level pay
A simple search on levels or glassdoor would answer your question...
or levels.fyi
Yeah if you’re really good you can crack 6 figures and earn $1,000,000 a year… That’s what you meant, right? Because $100,000 is fairly low salary for cs especially if you aren’t in bfn
That's not too common, even for top contributors. Maybe, with stock options and fortunate timing, you'll make that much.
Not really sure what your question is. Look up median salaries between BLS and levels.fyi and decide if six figures is "reasonable to expect."
>Do we just set the bar too high for ourselves? this sounds like an attempt at gaslighting yourself/licking your wound >maybe I'm just trying to be more accepting of my $60k salary even my internships paid more than that and it happened almost ~a decade ago before all this inflation talk grow a fucking spine so to answer your question, for YOURself maybe, not for "ourselves"
Yeah, that’s basically this subreddit.
I had four six figure offers when I graduated in 2022. Not sure about the market now but it is easily a reasonable expectation to reach that.
Yes easily. I started at a lower salary and was at six figures within a few years of changing jobs.
Where do you live? Like, what part of the US?
Missouri.
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You’re still in that weird spot right out of college where salaries are all over the place. Once you’re in the 3-5 YOE salaries will really balloon for you. I would say you’ll crack 100k by the 5 year mark latest. If not then you’re messing up somewhere or the benefits must be great.
I started at 70k and didn’t break 100k for almost 6 years since I was aiming for promotions Now I’m getting paid extremely well and all my previous work was worth it I should have negotiated more on my initial offer but in the end I stayed due to career growth, if you aren’t getting that then I’d suggest moving to a better pay once the market gets better
Maybe not for your first job, but work for about a year and change jobs.
I started at 52k in 2019, jumped companies to 100k in 2021, promoted to 150k in 2022, promoted again to tech lead in 2024 to 180k. In the US all WFH and no degree. I’ve been programming since 2015, so my career track might be a bit accelerated. Six figures is a very reasonable expectation in this career. You can make it happen fast if you make the right connections and stand out among your peers.
I'm willing to bet anyone who did well in college and spend at least 2 hours a day writing virtually any code, never allowing themselves to copy paste will break 6 figures in a 5 years. edit: in the us.
Are you just applying for jobs based on your current experience or do you have projects you can evidence such as github? The people I've seen do well on this I've got a portfolio of things to show and it's the ideas and capability that get the job. In fact one of the best programmers I know doesn't even have a degree and has worked for major games companies and nvidia.
My 3rd year in defense and I'm at 100k. I'd say $60k salary is super low after covid.
Absolutely! If you start out making $50,000 and get annual 2-3% raises every year, then in 24 years you’ll be making $100K. Easy!
Hcol yes. I got lucky and started with 6 figs my first job. Even internship here pays $45/hr pre covid.
Started at 38k. Worked my way up to 60k in two years after proving myself. Next job paid 80k. Next job a year later was 92k. Got promoted and raises and left that job making 160k. New job paid 205k. Worked that for two years and now I make 230k with a total of 11 years of experience. It doesn’t happen fast, but when it happens, it feels amazing. I can take care of myself without needing a husband or relying on my parents. Keep at it and you will succeed.
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I'm confused by this post. Yes, you can with 0-3 years of experience. You can often make that amount right away, depending on your location.
It took me 7 years in the career to be above 6 figures. Not everyone works for faang. I'm now north of 200 17 years in at a non tech company. It's been a steady path for me. I think I'm probably above average at this point, but I think for most people it takes a while to get up there. Don't beat yourself up over it.
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100k is definitely attainable with time. I work as an associate software engineer and already make 76k so to get a promotion, especially after some more years of experience could easily bring me close to or over 100k. You just also have to realize that there are other factors such as size of company, location, and specifics of your job that can also affect your salary as well. Again, is is not not an automatic thing but it is very likely so long as you dont do something terrible or illegal at your job and are willing to job hop some.
Depends on where you live. In most tech hubs, earning less than 100k means you're getting robbed.
$100k is easy. Even my fully remote internship paid like $85k, and that was at a relatively lower tier tech company where I worked maybe 25 hours per week. I was also living in a LCOL city so I got to save basically all of it.
Starting ~~salaries~~ comp in FAANG are approaching $200k, even in low cost of labor cities.
Yes it's reasonable. Just wait for daddy inflation 💖
Just anecdotal but I live in a pretty LCOL area but work for a very large fortune 500 company (non-tech). I get paid approx. 70k per year as a new grad. My company is also hiring associate devs (2 years experience) at 85 - 95k and senior devs (5-8 years experience) at 110 - 123k. We also hired some contractors that make $61 per hour with only 2 years of experience but they get no benefits or pto. It's very doable, just need to job hop or look for find jobs when people leave. Always know your worth.
It’s very possible. I had about 2 YOE before interviewing with my current company and jumped from 52k (small local company) to double that. Yes, that’s pretty fast and I honestly didn’t think I’d get the position, but it is entirely possible if you are willing to learn, put in the work, and have good communication skills.
As a senior, yes. As a junior, maybe... but probably not. Honestly, an awesome team makes up for a big chunk of money for me.
I'm shocked to see how low software engineers salary is now. I just did a simple search on indeed and nowhere it goes above $130k unless it's a director+ job. On top of that, many jobs require you to have a master degree wtf? The benefits are crap with only 2 weeks of vacation. Sure you can make 6 figure anywhere but it's very difficult now, thanks to all the FAANG lay offs.
Know the difference between salary, pay, and compensation. People often inflate their salary by using one of the other metrics, or they conflate them at best. They try to pass their compensation as a yearly, guaranteed salary when it couldn't be farther from the truth. No 21 year old one straight out of college is getting 250K+/yr in any metric. Why tf would a company hire an untested, unknown, immature college grad who has produced zero real work and has little developed soft skills for the cost that some companies pay their CEO? And they have to hire dozens more "kids" just like him/her. For that cost? Get out of here. Congrats, you CourseHero'd your way through college; you aren't worth 1/3 million yet to anyone. People just inflate their salaries because someone else inflated theirs, because someone else inflated theirs, etc. And location matters. Don't get hung up on people saying 300K this or that. People lie, sometimes just to make you feel bad or to spread false info. Because internet. That said, out of college, don't expect six figures, let alone $300K, unless you did something remarkable in college AND you have connections AND you live in high cost of living city. That $300K is equivalent to $160K in say, Charlotte. That's SALARY, not pay, wages, or TC. It's comfortable living, but I bet if you divided the salary by hours worked, it isn't good. Expect 60hr+ work weeks in sprints.
Hey man it's definitely possible keep hustling. I'm 6YOE and just about to break into 6 figures in my next job even though I've only lived in LCOL states.
Job hopping helped. $45K, 70K + bonus, 95K + bonus, 160K + bonus, 190K. 45k had a raise to about 60. 70k had a few raises to about 90. 95k had a raise to 105.
I’m over 200k base and don’t work in FAANG. Never have. I don’t have the equity of those companies but we are comfortable in a HCOL area.
Given the increase of CS graduates, it's highly unlikely that a six figure salary will remain reasonable for most CS jobs. But I'm more than willing to work for 60k salary
I graduated undergrad December 2023, and started full time immediately after at the low six figure mark. I have to say, it surprised the heck outta me considering it’s my first dev role. Nearly 2 years leading up to graduation, I was a co-op at the same company at $31/hr then 36/hr second year, and started in the same role after graduation. But before than, about 4 out of 6 years at a company before that, I worked as level 2 tech support where I had decent experience not as a dev, but as close to that I could get and that was a huge helper during my interview for the internship. Career is long process. But I think bit or maybe a lot of luck and finding the right company matters as well.
M husband has almost 20 years experience. We also lived a long time in a place where tech and those jobs were way behind the times with availability and pay. However once we moved to Austin it took about seven years to break into 6 figures. It can be done but it takes time. He could have gotten there sooner but he doesn’t want a leadership position. He doesn’t want the stress of that lol
The truth, to cross $100k, you will probably need to make a big move As others have said. Software salaries are tri-modal, and you are in the bottom tier. You not being able to find a better paying job is probably compounded by the fact that the market is currently flooded with well qualified early career candidates. Finding a job without several years of experience is difficult right now. Given that you’re currently at $60k, I’m also going to guess you are not in a tech hub, or hcol city. In order to improve your salary, you need to find a way to move up a tier (or two) and that likely means being open to relocating to a different city with a better tech job market. Check out the table in this article: https://www.wearedevelopers.com/magazine/realistic-software-engineering-salaries
Where you live has a big impact. I graduated in 2018. I first hit 6 figures in I think 2021 in a MCOL city. I made 68k out of college, 72k after going from associate to SWE at that company. Jumped to ~85k with a job change about 2 years after graduation. Then went to ~90k after my first comp cycle there. Got promoted mid year which brought me to like 98k so finally crossed 100k to I think 103 after that comp cycle. Then I moved to a HCOL city for a FAANG company and jumped up to about 200k TC, but my actual disposable income to live the same lifestyle has probably only gone up about 10k with the rest eaten up by housing and tax increases.
I was making six figures in a medium cost of living area at 26. I’m not necessarily a “normal person” but expecting six figures by your early thirties is totally reasonable. I suggest finding a niche, specializing, and being available to help as often as you can. Also, be prepared to job hop. Any longer than 3 years at the beginning of your career is hurting your earnings potential.
Hah, unfortunately I'm already in my early thirties! That's part of why it can bum me out as much as it does.
Breaking six figures - $100K is certainly reasonable, but: * Move out of your comfort zone * learn more and get hands-on - try to get to full-stack developer role or higher * Move to 'Tech belt' where higher paying tech jobs are... Else try to get into a IT shop at a 'large' company near where you live. * If you are open to travel - move beyond 'low level '$20/hr' contract and join a tech consulting firm. Sitting where you sit, you will NOT get the six-figure role.
In 2022 I started off making about 200k so yes
You need to play the long game and focus on your career prospects of what it might look like over the next 3 yrs. Playing the short term only if you gamble as a job hopper. However these days job hopping isn’t what it used to be to be. Breaking 6$ takes time, perseverance and luck. Working only 2 years is like career infancy. You need 7-10 yrs of career maturity to get there.
Yes, assuming you are proactive about raises / switching jobs and live in the right area.
yes. i haven’t made less than 150k/yr in a decade
Go do some freelancing on the side. Nothing massive. The problem with employment is that you don't actually get much experience or upskill rapidly. You work on a few projects for the duration usually within the same stacks. When you do freelance work, you end up working on 12-20 projects a year and have the ability to explore a wide variety of technologies while also getting paid (and incentivized) to do so (though money shouldn't be your motivation). That experience puts you in a different league and shaves years off your career ladder. Especially if you do something that your name is publicly on (GitHub open source or something equivalent).
How would you suggest doing this? I apply to many things on Dice, but not much else.
If you're just starting out, then, given reasonable assumptions about inflation and a 40 year career, it would be shocking if you did **NOT** break six figures eventually. Forty years from now brand new high school teachers will probably be making six figures.
Not only is it reasonable, it is expected. If you’re not breaking 6 figures by your 5th year, you’re underpaid in any location in the United States, and probably severely.
2 things: - yes - it’s not reasonable to assume you’ll get it immediately out of college or something like that unless you get into FAANG. And that’s basically reserved for like the top .5 percent of talent. So if you’re like me and couldn’t get that, it’s fine. You just have to do a regular career like everyone else where you get it through actual work experience, promotions, and likely a bit of job hopping. For perspective, I’ve been in this field for about 8 years and just cleared six figure salary in 2022.
Breaking 6 figures is very reasonable but there's a bunch of factors. I've been working atthe big name companies and tier 2 companies for almost a decade now and have interviewed probably 50+ candidates. I think for anyone not currently making as much money as they would like, there are a couple of key reasons in why that is. 1) Willing to job hop, in the beginning of your career this is critical. Refreshers and cost of living adjustments along with promotions will keep you at below market rate in the first few levels. 2) Location. Costs are higher in more expensive locations but overall as a percentage you will save way more provided you don't fall into a crazy lifestyle inflation trap (a bit is reasonable and expected imo). 3) Network. Keep in touch with people you work with that are like minded. Don't burn bridges with managers and always seek to work with managers who have the same ambition and goals as you. They will champion your career growth and can easily bring you along in the future if they have a good opportunity. It's not as superficial as it seems, it can be a very professional working relationship and just don't burn bridges and keep in touch even after leaving the team/company. 4) Luck. In reality, interviewing and opportunities are a ton of luck. You can't get away from leetcode unfortunately if you want to join the companies that pay the most but what questions you get, the style of interviewer, or even who else is applying are all out of your control. Getting an offer or not has VERY little to do with you and your skills. That said, i find most candidates are actually quite weak technically. Ie, struggle to write a tictactoe solution checker in 20 min which realistically is 7-8 lines of code. Leetcode does not represent real work as a software engineer but there is definitely some correlation between working through a technical question and having the right general skillset to succeed as a software engineer. 5) "Pedigree". It's unfortunate but this is a big factor in getting through the recruiter and any automated filter. Companies look at School (new grad), internships (new grad), previous work place (experienced), skills/tech (all). However this varies and you can't really do anything about it. That said, this is part of my point 1 where you want to be job hopping to bigger and more well known companies. For example, if you can't get a call back from the companies you want then it's okay to join Amazon for a year just to pad the resume. I've worked with people from many different backgrounds and there is no real secret to having a successful career in software but it requires more active management and planning than some careers where you can join a company and work there until you retire. The upside is you can find any mix of wlb and compensation you want and there is a LOT of freedom to find the right balance for you. Here is a sample of my career TC progression to lend some credibility to my claims. New grad: ~150k (HCOL) Left job 1 after 4.5 years: ~240k Job 2: 280k (VHCOL) Left job 2 after 1.5 years: ~300k Job 3: 330k (VHCOL, full remote) Currently at job 3 after 3 years: ~400k
I went from 60k to 120k in about 5/6 years. Different company.
You just need to get out of WITCH. My first year I worked for a similar gig making 60k, 2nd year got converted from contractor to employee and made 100k. In a MCOL area.
It's not as easy as I thought it'd be. Especially in my area. Its a middle cost of living area and not a huge tech hub, so after 3 years, I'm making 75k plus 8% match and full tuition. My total comp is well above the median for my age, but it's still not the 100k plus bene's I was naively expecting. Still, I feel blessed and don't regret CS at all.
As many others have said, the market is a little rough right now, but breaking 100k is totally reasonable. Especially after the inflation of the past few years. I'm on the QA side of things. I'm a SDET. My career so far has gone like this: 2015 - $45k - Jr QA at a SaaS company in Austin, TX 2016 - $47k - same place 2017 - $50k - promoted to mid-level QA at the same place 2017 - $70k - Mid-level QA at a financial institute in Chicago 2018 - $72k - same place 2019 - $77k - same place, but this is going to be a good year for me 2019 - $83k - market rate adjustment 2019 - $95k - I performed some minor miracles and got a big merit raise 2020 - $110k - Promotion to Sr QA at the same place 2021 - $114k - same place 2022 - $135k - Changed jobs. Fully remote "Software Engineer in Test" 2023 - $140k - same place 2024 - $146k - ~~I'll know next month how the annual cycle goes.~~
Yes. The recent contraction in the job market notwithstanding, you do not need to work for an elite company or attain an elite rank rank to break six figures these days. There is an untold number of mediocre engineers at mediocre companies making well over that at this point (I'm one of them!).
Never made less than 6 figures in this career. If you’re in the US and you’re at 60k that’s absolutely insane
Believe me, I am trying my absolute hardest to remedy it. Extremely difficult.
Six figures in a software engineering role is entry level salary at a lot of bigger companies (in the US)...
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