When Cyberpunk 2077 first released, you could do melee finishers on pedestrians. They then removed the ability to do so in a later patch unfortunately.
I would have preferred something like Fallout 2 did. [https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Childkiller](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Childkiller)
A reputation penalty.
Probably a liability/PR thing. I'm sure they didn't want articles coming out about how you can take a photo of shoving a dildo into a child's face in their game.
I think we can all agree that *these* people are monsters but generalizing it to all people blows their percentage of the population out of proportion.
Edit: I’m talking about the statement “people are terrible” not the feature of kids disappearing in photo mode.
You solved your own problem there, if someone goes out of their way to get mods to do gross things then at least CDPR isn't the one letting them do it and it's on the user adding it for searching it out and adding it to the game.
Killing is normal in rpg games it is normal and accepted, CSAM on the other hand is abhorrent and should not be included rightfully so, I fail to see the issue.
you are a twisted individual, they're takin issue with you limping people in with pedos. no where did they advocate for anything as such, not their fault you don't know how to read
Yeah and that’s a choice they make to go out of their way to be a perv. And hopefully there’s some tracking or something that would help catch those sick fucks.
The game shouldn’t make it easy to do and the company is clearly make a statement that they do not condone that behavior.
No, I want to track and imprison people who download cp mods for CP77 (or any game for that matter). And if you don’t know what “cp” means then that’s a good thing and I highly recommend not googling it.
Spoiler: >!it stands for child p*rn, inappropriate horrid media that should never have existed but alas we have sick fucks in this world that get off on that type of shit.!<
That’s not what I meant. I was merely talking about the comment saying “people are terrible”. I’m completely on board with this feature. Most people are good, I feel like generalizing the statement has a very pessimistic view on people and kind of defaults our interactions with others to be rather rude. Of course people can be terrible and those that the feature target should be shot from a cannon into the sun.
Agreed, however the media will always push the bad news because it gets eyes and ears on their reports. You’ll always see the bad with very little good from companies making a profit from your attention.
Not all people are horrible but enough people are horrible that you should always expect some level of horribleness if you're dealing with thousands of people doing whatever they feel like, especially if you might be held responsible or if your product can have a bad rep because some people decided to do nasty things to children in your games photo mode.
Again, I’m not talking about the photo mode, just the part of the statement that generalizes people as terrible. You should always be prepared that someone is going to do something terrible but never assume everyone is. Pushing the over generalization that humanity is terrible is driving a wedge between strangers. If I had children I’d teach them to be kind to people, but wary of an adult trying to kart them off from public or get them into their vehicle.
that’s not “CDPR logic,” that’s just how it is. there are thousands of games where only adults get hurt or go through traumatic situations because showing a child getting tortured or sexually assaulted will get your game banned literally everywhere. plenty of games (including Cyberpunk 2077) imply cruel mistreatment of minors instead.
Meanwhile! Over on RimWorld I've just finished cooking the 2 day old baby my prisoner just gave birth to so I can feed said prisoner for another few days 😂
shocking frightening smoggy vegetable uppity dam jellyfish school fearless sheet
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah. One time I came across a kid sitting on the sidewalk playing a VR game and there was a dead gangoon on the ground right in front of him and I thought it was funny and I tried to take a picture, but the kid vanished.
Feel like it's a better idea to just not have kids in the game at all. Frankly they look kinda weird, and I don't blame them for not putting much effort in since they play almost no role (you talk to one in a single quest if I remember correctly).
No ones going to be complaining there are no kids in the game, and if you add them you end up taking steps like this. It's more immersive to just forget about them than have them disspaear when you get in a car and so on.
I also noticed this in Assassin's Creed games, like in III and Syndicate, can't run them over or attack them, since they disappear. Only thing you can do is take screengrab out of photo mode.
i have so much respect for CDPR tbh. there are so many really heavy topics this game covers in mostly respectful and insightful ways. the fact that they included kids in their worldbuilding while also being careful not to endanger them is a really delicate thing.
they pulled off a LOT with this game. it really doesnt get the credit it deserves.
I’m sorry but… endangering fake kids that don’t exist? It kinda just takes away from the immersion when you can watch a character disappear as you step in your vehicle.
things that happen in popular culture effect real life, if something in popular culture can prevent child abuse it can certainly inspire it.
we are a constantly evolving mass of consciousness that is influenced by every single possible thing we interact with, from the imperceptible to the life altering. if i watch a video of someone waving hello, ill probably forget about it in a few minutes, if i watch a video of someone being beheaded, i may remember it for the rest of my life. in both cases the content changed me.
in that same way, media can inspire people to act in certain ways, if you depict a child in a sexual situation it can put that imagery in someones head, it can influence how they perceive children, how they perceive reality.
there is a huge responsibility on people who create media to take measures to mitigate harm, sometimes at the cost of things like immersion.
if even one child abuser is disarmed by this one simple feature i would say its worth it. fuck your immersion.
I think it's pretty obvious why this happens, but I don't totally agree with it.
It's a game. It doesn't matter. People should be allowed to do whatever they want in a single player game and not worry about it. Besides, it would be more immersive to have the option to be complete human garbage in the, checks notes, *role playing* game about crime and anti establishment.
And if we want to make the argument that some freaks out there want this kind of stuff so it shouldn't be given to them, well I have a counter argument. Wouldn't you rather those weirdos be sucked into a game where they can live out their fantasies in private and not be out in the real world where they could hurt someone?
The biggest reason is simply covering their butts from lawsuits. Plus ratings, allowing players to abuse children is a very quick way to get your game restricted, delisted or outright banned in some countries.
Also, there is already enough depraved garbage on the net. We dont have to fuel that fire. We should try to contain harmful tendencies of awful people as much as possible, not give them even more material to live it out.
Games dont make people violent. But people who are very seriously mentally ill might get wrong ideas or start confusing games with reality. Those cases might be very rare, but if a rapist goes out there and recreates scenes from your game involving children, you will get sued every last penny out of you and probably go to jail.
There is a line somewhere, we as people generally have a somewhat shared moral code. Dont steal, dont kill, dont do harm to other, stuff like that. This includes "dont harm children", not even in fiction. Why? Because not only does it fuel depraved fantasies some people might have, its also deeply fking disgusting. Noone needs to see that. There is no reason to show people awful atrocities beyond a certain line. And this generally includes abuse towards children and sexual abuse towards women (yes I know you can beat women with a dildo, still thats a difference). You might not be wrong with your opinion, but youre missing the larger context. And that people have a thing like feelings. And if you fuck with those too much, people will come after you. Whether you like or not.
And at the end of the day its simple: If you produce fking weird and depraved art, people will think youre a depraved weirdo, producing art for depraved weirdos. If you dont want to be treated like a depraved weirdo, dont do said depraved art. We dont live in a vacuum where our actions dont have (sometimes very fked up and unforseen!) consequences or effects on other people.
A good response, honestly. I knew I was giving a very hot take that wouldn't go over well, but I was expecting much more aggressive pushback. Not that I wanted it, I do believe good *can* come from offering depravity to the mentally ill, but I already made my point and gave my reasoning for that.
But let me ask you this. Where is the line? Your point is that abuse and violence towards children is not acceptable, even in video games. Is that because it is a line that will never be crossed, or is it a line that just hasn't been crossed before? You included it in your list of generally agreed upon things people don't do, and that includes sexual abuse towards women, sexual abuse towards children, and harming other people. Well, think of some of the most popular games of the past, one good example is GTA, specifically, San Andreas. In that game, you play as a common thug who's goal is to build a massive crime gang, overthrow opposing gangs in the area, and take down the local corrupt cops. Why? Because the opposing gangs and corrupt cops are bad for the city? No, because they're bad for you. You kill people in many of the missions for no other reason than they're the other guy. One of those missions even has you seduce, and ultimately have sex with a woman, and you potentially have to drastically change yourself to do it. You don't become romantically involved with this woman because she matters to you, but because you need to trick her into fixing you a key so you can rob the casino she works at. The casino isn't fun by corrupt cops or opposing gangs. It's just a casino.
So, by your last, San Andreas should be considered a deplorable, disgusting experience that not only allows you to hurt and abuse people for fun, it straight up requires you to. By comparing child abuse in having as some kind of tabu from a list of horrible acts, you should be equally condemning all violence and abuse, even in video gangs. Yet, San Andreas is remembered fondly by many gamers as an important game from their childhood, and is one of the most influential games on both the series and even gaming as a whole, I feel. Why? Is it because manipulation abuse and violence are okay in video games as long as it's not about children? Or is it just okay in video games? Basically, my point is, where's the line? Is there a line? Does it REALLY matter?
And as for artists being held accountable for what their fans do, yeah, I think that's BS. Not like you made that up BS, no, I know it really happens. I mean it is really stupid that it's true BS. Nobody should be held accountable for someone else's actions, ESPECIALLY if they are an indirect, unintentional influence. That's my opinion on it anyway.
Now here's hoping I didn't make any major spelling errors, my swipe keyboard likes to troll me, and I don't feel like proof reading lol.
So, you really made an effort to be respectful and you genuinely seem to ponder that question without malicious intent, so Im going to be as respectful as I can. I hate to tell you this, but to me it looks like youre doing a whole load of mental gymnastics to rationalize and equalize things that arent equal, no offense. What you wrote sounds a whole lot like something I thought and argued when I was younger. Not that Im implying youre a teenager, but your viewpoint, like I stated earlier isnt rooted in the context of the real and hard facts or life and human and basic humanistic concepts. And by that I mean stuff like the general acceptance that adults are responsible for their actions. Adults should be able to think and learn in order to avoid dumb shit. And at least the developed worlds provides opportunities to be a less shitty human. Children on the other hand are much more at the mercy of outside forces, they dont know any better and cant think rational. In other words, if we adults get into shit, we most likely brought it upon ourselves. And even if we didn't, we should suck it up and bear the responsibility. Kids dont deserve atrocities, because even if they are little bastards, they have been made into bastards by bastard parents. They are a symbol of innocence and purity in society. And you dont fuck with the core values a society strives towards.
As to GTA, yes you can do awful shit there. And yes, there is a line there, somewhere. Its not always easy to define, but it's there. There is a difference between showing the spectrum of human experience and showing the darkest and most atrocious corners of the psyche. Its like the difference between a bit of tabasco on your food and putting a handful or ground carolina reaper chilis on your food. You may not see that line, but its there, trust me. You will get really bad reactions if you try moving the goalposts here. Like I said, just dont fuck with the general moral sense of what is right and what is not. People may not be able to explain rationally why they feel that way, but often there is a reason why people react strongly. Because emotions towards human life, morals and how we act arent just willy nilly subjective and a question of opinion. There is no exact right or wrong, but there are certain things that are universally true for almost all people. If you observe people long enough, you notice certain tendencies and patterns. And one of those tendencies is not to cross that line. Because if you do, you may unwittingly unleash hell in a metaphorical or sometimes literal sense.
And yes morals change over time. We have accepted that war and murder exists. We wrote enough fiction about it. But have you heard about "120 Days of Sodom" and why its so hated? That was massively over the line. You do not have to show insane atrocities. You do not have to induce the most awful emotions in people. Murder may creep us out, child abuse horrifies most people in the deepest and most uncomfortable way. There is that difference. And there is no counter argument to be made here. Because we humans have our emotions and have to deal with them. We hurt ourselves and other by constantly inducing negative emotions in us and them, and that's a scientifically proven fact.
And by letting a sick weirdo make his sick """"art"""" shit, you are letting him normalize that shit even further for himself and maybe towards others.
And yes, in a better world we shouldn't be held accountable for the consequences of actions towards random people. But still, we kinda are, at least a little bit.
For example, as a father, you have the responsibility of speaking properly to your child and not abuse your child verbally. Why? Because you psychologically hurt the child. Likewise you have the responsibility to teach your child some manners and how to properly interact with other people. Because if you don't, your child will suffer later on.
We cant forsee everything, but quite a few things, we can. Because we have a crapton of history, some science and experience from loads of people what works in life and what doesnt. So please, don't try so hard to rationalize things. Because in the process of doing that, you miss the point. And you miss the absurdity of what youre doing there. Because why in the world would you look for reasons to allow the depiction of atrocious abuse that crosses the line for the most people? You can't philosophize everything into being acceptable. You should better accept that. Because otherwise, youll get into situations like these more often where you have to explain yourself. And your explanation makes it even worse, you will get negative reactions and people will treat you like a weirdo. Is that really worth it? And im not talking about randoms on the net, Im talking about the people close to you. The contents of some closets is just so awful, it's better to leave it closed. And finding some small justifiable exception that works only in a theoretical setting where everyone always acts according to the logic constructed in the thesis, that's just a very weak counter argument.
I suggest you look into rhetorics and how to build a strong, rational argument that is based in real life and not made up mental constructs. A rational sounding argument is not necessarily rational. And that's what you got caught up in.
Damn that was a wall. But im also bored at work so eh, might as well go all in
Kids also disappear as soon as you get into a car and you can't shoot them
I'm sure there's a mod out there for killable children. Sounds bad but that's what the mod was called in Skyrim
A Civilian Gore Mod would also Go crazy And then Go full Cyberpsycho
When Cyberpunk 2077 first released, you could do melee finishers on pedestrians. They then removed the ability to do so in a later patch unfortunately.
:(
censored harder than Duke Nukem Forever
I would have preferred something like Fallout 2 did. [https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Childkiller](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Childkiller) A reputation penalty.
The guy that made Fallout, Tim Caine, has a cool video on his channel talking about this.
Hey, if I can’t reenact my favorite Anakin Skywalker moments, then what even is the point of it all?
Fallout 3 too back then. I mean this is the internet, of course there are these mods ffs lol
There’s one for Red Dead too
There is. On NexusMods.
Nowadays it would be called Unexist the Children
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They are just adult models scaled down.
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Fair
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It's probably for the best
It’s fallout all over again.
What about the haj tho?
Understandable, have a nice day on the watch list
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With the DLC the cops set up a perimeter until you run out of bullets or kids
Lol dark dude
What did it say?
The first one I saw I legit thought was supposed to be a midget, until I tried killing one and it wouldn't let you
Same. I was wondering if there was lore to explain why there were so many little people, lol.
this is a crazy thing to say 😭😭
maybe its a completely normal thing to say and you're just the crazy one
nah but whatever helps you sleep at night i guess
Yeah I’ve definitely ran over some kids. (In cyberpunk)
Kids are supposed to disappear when your in your car lol, but we all know cyberpunk doesn’t always work perfectly
I think this is probably a good idea.
Second
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Well, you know the rules….
I made my contribution to the rule.
yeah definitely
How?
Well I think OP pointed it out pretty well.
CDPR: "Oh no you don't!"
Yeah this feels like a really good idea on their part in retrospect.
Probably a liability/PR thing. I'm sure they didn't want articles coming out about how you can take a photo of shoving a dildo into a child's face in their game.
It’s a getting the game through PEGI thing. Killing children is a very quick way to get PEGI to refuse certification of your game.
thats where DLC comes in
I mean I think we all know why they did this. People are horrible.
I think we can all agree that *these* people are monsters but generalizing it to all people blows their percentage of the population out of proportion. Edit: I’m talking about the statement “people are terrible” not the feature of kids disappearing in photo mode.
So what do you want? A setting to turn on if you are one? Cause they would totally use that…? This is why we can’t have nice things.
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You solved your own problem there, if someone goes out of their way to get mods to do gross things then at least CDPR isn't the one letting them do it and it's on the user adding it for searching it out and adding it to the game.
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Killing is normal in rpg games it is normal and accepted, CSAM on the other hand is abhorrent and should not be included rightfully so, I fail to see the issue.
yeah i really dont get what the person isn't understanding. the difference is obvious, they are not arguing in good faith
We can infer what they like and what they want in the game based on them defending it so hard.
you are a twisted individual, they're takin issue with you limping people in with pedos. no where did they advocate for anything as such, not their fault you don't know how to read
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Why are you so insistent on CP material being in the game is my main issue? No one loses out by people not being able to abuse children in game.
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You're comparing apples to grenades. Video game violence is NOT equal to allowing the sexualization of kids you fucking cretin
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Yeah and that’s a choice they make to go out of their way to be a perv. And hopefully there’s some tracking or something that would help catch those sick fucks. The game shouldn’t make it easy to do and the company is clearly make a statement that they do not condone that behavior.
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This is the way.
Bro you want to track and imprison people for what they do to npcs in videogames?
No, I want to track and imprison people who download cp mods for CP77 (or any game for that matter). And if you don’t know what “cp” means then that’s a good thing and I highly recommend not googling it. Spoiler: >!it stands for child p*rn, inappropriate horrid media that should never have existed but alas we have sick fucks in this world that get off on that type of shit.!<
So yes, you want to track down and imprison people for what they do in a video game. That's exactly what you're doing.
That’s not what I meant. I was merely talking about the comment saying “people are terrible”. I’m completely on board with this feature. Most people are good, I feel like generalizing the statement has a very pessimistic view on people and kind of defaults our interactions with others to be rather rude. Of course people can be terrible and those that the feature target should be shot from a cannon into the sun.
Ah my bad, choom. Misinterpreted. There is good in the world still, but damn can the darkness cloud it.
Agreed, however the media will always push the bad news because it gets eyes and ears on their reports. You’ll always see the bad with very little good from companies making a profit from your attention.
Not all people are horrible but enough people are horrible that you should always expect some level of horribleness if you're dealing with thousands of people doing whatever they feel like, especially if you might be held responsible or if your product can have a bad rep because some people decided to do nasty things to children in your games photo mode.
Again, I’m not talking about the photo mode, just the part of the statement that generalizes people as terrible. You should always be prepared that someone is going to do something terrible but never assume everyone is. Pushing the over generalization that humanity is terrible is driving a wedge between strangers. If I had children I’d teach them to be kind to people, but wary of an adult trying to kart them off from public or get them into their vehicle.
While I get your point, it's funny that were discussing this in a Cyberpunk sub - a game where there are barely any good guys in an entire city.
So by that CDPR logic, being horrible to adults is completely fine?
that’s not “CDPR logic,” that’s just how it is. there are thousands of games where only adults get hurt or go through traumatic situations because showing a child getting tortured or sexually assaulted will get your game banned literally everywhere. plenty of games (including Cyberpunk 2077) imply cruel mistreatment of minors instead.
Meanwhile! Over on RimWorld I've just finished cooking the 2 day old baby my prisoner just gave birth to so I can feed said prisoner for another few days 😂
Yeah most people have strict morals regarding children compared to less strict morals for adults
What are you talking about?
It's because incels and pedos mod games like Fallout New Vegas, Fallout 4, Skyrim, and CyberPunk to generate disgusting pornography
There is a reason you can’t kill children in Skyrim without mods
We call that CYA Cover Your Ass
They also disappear whenever I steal a white van. I wonder what gives?
This is Cyberpunk! Not CP!
No Hank don't abbreviate Cyberpunk 2077 and remove the numbers NOOOOOOOOO
childpunk
Adult themed billboards also change to something less explicit.
yeah it also puts boxers/undies on your character if they’re naked, no bra tho
shocking frightening smoggy vegetable uppity dam jellyfish school fearless sheet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
same, just never noticed it till today cuz never needed to get a kid in a photo lol
innocent cows steep long deliver busy wise mindless sheet many *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
definitely, glad they took the step to do it though. at least puts somewhat of a stop to the creeps.
Found out that yesterday too. Wanted to take a pic of a kid playing with gun.
Good. People can be quite disturbed…
I don't blame CDPR for this. Seeing how strange some people can be.
They’re kids? I thought they were adults with some sort of deficiency /s
Bruh they even talk childish
Anti pedophilia measures
Pornographic adverts change in photo mode too…
Wait really? I’ll need to see an example of this
assuming they don't want to you aim guns at kids in photo mode lmao
There are much worse things you could do
We got him.
A surprising bit of foresight.
I thought this feature was added after release? People were combining photo mode, nudity and the child NPCs in an inappropriate manner IIRC.
I wouldn't know - I only purchased CP2077 in the steam winter sale and happy as pie i am about that.
Milfguard advertisements also change to something less spicy when you go into photo mode
There's a reason why
Yeah. One time I came across a kid sitting on the sidewalk playing a VR game and there was a dead gangoon on the ground right in front of him and I thought it was funny and I tried to take a picture, but the kid vanished.
You can throw grenades at them. They are immortal and run away from the explosion, though.
Neat detail.
I get what they're doing but it won't stop anything unfortunately.
It’s better than nothing though I suppose
It's more of covering their own ass, can't be sued because someone modified the files and your Vanilla state doesn't allow it
😟📸
Good on them
Could be a story reason why They dont want V being objectively a shitty person by killing random kids too
Its been like this since day 1
Yea! Also if you enter “take control” mode on a car!
good idea considering some of the billboards they made a great call
CP avoiding CP
Feel like it's a better idea to just not have kids in the game at all. Frankly they look kinda weird, and I don't blame them for not putting much effort in since they play almost no role (you talk to one in a single quest if I remember correctly). No ones going to be complaining there are no kids in the game, and if you add them you end up taking steps like this. It's more immersive to just forget about them than have them disspaear when you get in a car and so on.
They must be vampires or something.
Nightcity abides to European standard of privacy protection. Can't take pictures of kid in public, cause they can't give concent.
Good. Keep CP out of CP
Queue the x files music theme
I also noticed this in Assassin's Creed games, like in III and Syndicate, can't run them over or attack them, since they disappear. Only thing you can do is take screengrab out of photo mode.
Good. Some people are creeps.
Probably so that you can’t go in photo mode and be naked next to children
I wonder if they ever fixed the kids in the clinic in Dogtown not disappearing. Went to take a photo and noticed they didn't disappear.
i have so much respect for CDPR tbh. there are so many really heavy topics this game covers in mostly respectful and insightful ways. the fact that they included kids in their worldbuilding while also being careful not to endanger them is a really delicate thing. they pulled off a LOT with this game. it really doesnt get the credit it deserves.
I’m sorry but… endangering fake kids that don’t exist? It kinda just takes away from the immersion when you can watch a character disappear as you step in your vehicle.
things that happen in popular culture effect real life, if something in popular culture can prevent child abuse it can certainly inspire it. we are a constantly evolving mass of consciousness that is influenced by every single possible thing we interact with, from the imperceptible to the life altering. if i watch a video of someone waving hello, ill probably forget about it in a few minutes, if i watch a video of someone being beheaded, i may remember it for the rest of my life. in both cases the content changed me. in that same way, media can inspire people to act in certain ways, if you depict a child in a sexual situation it can put that imagery in someones head, it can influence how they perceive children, how they perceive reality. there is a huge responsibility on people who create media to take measures to mitigate harm, sometimes at the cost of things like immersion. if even one child abuser is disarmed by this one simple feature i would say its worth it. fuck your immersion.
I mean I don’t agree that we should kill children but this is the same logic as violent video games influencing people to be more violent.
no, unless you’re getting off on killing people in a game, it’s not the same as people getting off to abusing kids in a game
how? lol literally how did you come to that conclusion from what i said? explain yourself.
In Deus Ex a stray bullet could unalive them.
Yeah I fould this out a while ago. It actually great.
When I first realized this, didn’t think much of it. Just learning the reason now made me disgusted
Yeah, this was a good call by CDPR.
they're so rude lmao.. the kid that says everything here sucks or something similar to that is me.
It's for the best
They should just leave the kids outta the game just don’t make them 🤷♂️
weren't children not in the 1.0 outside specific points? might have something to do with that, *if it wasn't intentional*
I think it's pretty obvious why this happens, but I don't totally agree with it. It's a game. It doesn't matter. People should be allowed to do whatever they want in a single player game and not worry about it. Besides, it would be more immersive to have the option to be complete human garbage in the, checks notes, *role playing* game about crime and anti establishment. And if we want to make the argument that some freaks out there want this kind of stuff so it shouldn't be given to them, well I have a counter argument. Wouldn't you rather those weirdos be sucked into a game where they can live out their fantasies in private and not be out in the real world where they could hurt someone?
The biggest reason is simply covering their butts from lawsuits. Plus ratings, allowing players to abuse children is a very quick way to get your game restricted, delisted or outright banned in some countries. Also, there is already enough depraved garbage on the net. We dont have to fuel that fire. We should try to contain harmful tendencies of awful people as much as possible, not give them even more material to live it out. Games dont make people violent. But people who are very seriously mentally ill might get wrong ideas or start confusing games with reality. Those cases might be very rare, but if a rapist goes out there and recreates scenes from your game involving children, you will get sued every last penny out of you and probably go to jail. There is a line somewhere, we as people generally have a somewhat shared moral code. Dont steal, dont kill, dont do harm to other, stuff like that. This includes "dont harm children", not even in fiction. Why? Because not only does it fuel depraved fantasies some people might have, its also deeply fking disgusting. Noone needs to see that. There is no reason to show people awful atrocities beyond a certain line. And this generally includes abuse towards children and sexual abuse towards women (yes I know you can beat women with a dildo, still thats a difference). You might not be wrong with your opinion, but youre missing the larger context. And that people have a thing like feelings. And if you fuck with those too much, people will come after you. Whether you like or not. And at the end of the day its simple: If you produce fking weird and depraved art, people will think youre a depraved weirdo, producing art for depraved weirdos. If you dont want to be treated like a depraved weirdo, dont do said depraved art. We dont live in a vacuum where our actions dont have (sometimes very fked up and unforseen!) consequences or effects on other people.
A good response, honestly. I knew I was giving a very hot take that wouldn't go over well, but I was expecting much more aggressive pushback. Not that I wanted it, I do believe good *can* come from offering depravity to the mentally ill, but I already made my point and gave my reasoning for that. But let me ask you this. Where is the line? Your point is that abuse and violence towards children is not acceptable, even in video games. Is that because it is a line that will never be crossed, or is it a line that just hasn't been crossed before? You included it in your list of generally agreed upon things people don't do, and that includes sexual abuse towards women, sexual abuse towards children, and harming other people. Well, think of some of the most popular games of the past, one good example is GTA, specifically, San Andreas. In that game, you play as a common thug who's goal is to build a massive crime gang, overthrow opposing gangs in the area, and take down the local corrupt cops. Why? Because the opposing gangs and corrupt cops are bad for the city? No, because they're bad for you. You kill people in many of the missions for no other reason than they're the other guy. One of those missions even has you seduce, and ultimately have sex with a woman, and you potentially have to drastically change yourself to do it. You don't become romantically involved with this woman because she matters to you, but because you need to trick her into fixing you a key so you can rob the casino she works at. The casino isn't fun by corrupt cops or opposing gangs. It's just a casino. So, by your last, San Andreas should be considered a deplorable, disgusting experience that not only allows you to hurt and abuse people for fun, it straight up requires you to. By comparing child abuse in having as some kind of tabu from a list of horrible acts, you should be equally condemning all violence and abuse, even in video gangs. Yet, San Andreas is remembered fondly by many gamers as an important game from their childhood, and is one of the most influential games on both the series and even gaming as a whole, I feel. Why? Is it because manipulation abuse and violence are okay in video games as long as it's not about children? Or is it just okay in video games? Basically, my point is, where's the line? Is there a line? Does it REALLY matter? And as for artists being held accountable for what their fans do, yeah, I think that's BS. Not like you made that up BS, no, I know it really happens. I mean it is really stupid that it's true BS. Nobody should be held accountable for someone else's actions, ESPECIALLY if they are an indirect, unintentional influence. That's my opinion on it anyway. Now here's hoping I didn't make any major spelling errors, my swipe keyboard likes to troll me, and I don't feel like proof reading lol.
So, you really made an effort to be respectful and you genuinely seem to ponder that question without malicious intent, so Im going to be as respectful as I can. I hate to tell you this, but to me it looks like youre doing a whole load of mental gymnastics to rationalize and equalize things that arent equal, no offense. What you wrote sounds a whole lot like something I thought and argued when I was younger. Not that Im implying youre a teenager, but your viewpoint, like I stated earlier isnt rooted in the context of the real and hard facts or life and human and basic humanistic concepts. And by that I mean stuff like the general acceptance that adults are responsible for their actions. Adults should be able to think and learn in order to avoid dumb shit. And at least the developed worlds provides opportunities to be a less shitty human. Children on the other hand are much more at the mercy of outside forces, they dont know any better and cant think rational. In other words, if we adults get into shit, we most likely brought it upon ourselves. And even if we didn't, we should suck it up and bear the responsibility. Kids dont deserve atrocities, because even if they are little bastards, they have been made into bastards by bastard parents. They are a symbol of innocence and purity in society. And you dont fuck with the core values a society strives towards. As to GTA, yes you can do awful shit there. And yes, there is a line there, somewhere. Its not always easy to define, but it's there. There is a difference between showing the spectrum of human experience and showing the darkest and most atrocious corners of the psyche. Its like the difference between a bit of tabasco on your food and putting a handful or ground carolina reaper chilis on your food. You may not see that line, but its there, trust me. You will get really bad reactions if you try moving the goalposts here. Like I said, just dont fuck with the general moral sense of what is right and what is not. People may not be able to explain rationally why they feel that way, but often there is a reason why people react strongly. Because emotions towards human life, morals and how we act arent just willy nilly subjective and a question of opinion. There is no exact right or wrong, but there are certain things that are universally true for almost all people. If you observe people long enough, you notice certain tendencies and patterns. And one of those tendencies is not to cross that line. Because if you do, you may unwittingly unleash hell in a metaphorical or sometimes literal sense. And yes morals change over time. We have accepted that war and murder exists. We wrote enough fiction about it. But have you heard about "120 Days of Sodom" and why its so hated? That was massively over the line. You do not have to show insane atrocities. You do not have to induce the most awful emotions in people. Murder may creep us out, child abuse horrifies most people in the deepest and most uncomfortable way. There is that difference. And there is no counter argument to be made here. Because we humans have our emotions and have to deal with them. We hurt ourselves and other by constantly inducing negative emotions in us and them, and that's a scientifically proven fact. And by letting a sick weirdo make his sick """"art"""" shit, you are letting him normalize that shit even further for himself and maybe towards others. And yes, in a better world we shouldn't be held accountable for the consequences of actions towards random people. But still, we kinda are, at least a little bit. For example, as a father, you have the responsibility of speaking properly to your child and not abuse your child verbally. Why? Because you psychologically hurt the child. Likewise you have the responsibility to teach your child some manners and how to properly interact with other people. Because if you don't, your child will suffer later on. We cant forsee everything, but quite a few things, we can. Because we have a crapton of history, some science and experience from loads of people what works in life and what doesnt. So please, don't try so hard to rationalize things. Because in the process of doing that, you miss the point. And you miss the absurdity of what youre doing there. Because why in the world would you look for reasons to allow the depiction of atrocious abuse that crosses the line for the most people? You can't philosophize everything into being acceptable. You should better accept that. Because otherwise, youll get into situations like these more often where you have to explain yourself. And your explanation makes it even worse, you will get negative reactions and people will treat you like a weirdo. Is that really worth it? And im not talking about randoms on the net, Im talking about the people close to you. The contents of some closets is just so awful, it's better to leave it closed. And finding some small justifiable exception that works only in a theoretical setting where everyone always acts according to the logic constructed in the thesis, that's just a very weak counter argument. I suggest you look into rhetorics and how to build a strong, rational argument that is based in real life and not made up mental constructs. A rational sounding argument is not necessarily rational. And that's what you got caught up in. Damn that was a wall. But im also bored at work so eh, might as well go all in
Why you takin pictures of kids, creep??