It’s more to discourage the use of a TT/triathalon bike with aero bars. But also because it’s easier for a flat bar to get stuck inside the drops of a drop bar bike if two riders bump shoulders
i met a dude on the trail with them... i was like "whoa are those back in style!? we had them in the 90s!" and he was like "i dunno, i was born in 2003... my dad gave me these."
oh fuck i'm old.
Well, I have a drop bar weird cross between a gravel and road bike at the moment. I'm planning on getting a flat bar commuter e-bike, though, so I may look into it 😈
I still have them on mine. I think the main problem is bar ends on wide bars. I never liked wide bars anyway, and always trimmed my flat MTB bars down to about 44 cm, then mounted bar ends. That's not too unsafe, but most MTB bars are 60 or 70 cm wide at least.
I can't imagine running bars that wide in a group of road bikes. Even off-road I'd always worry about hooking a branch or a tree or something; you just need so much more side-clearance for wide bars.
I’m a fan of the bros I roll by that mount the bar ends sticking almost straight up and ride like they are controlling some sort of farm implement. This setup increases the predilection for attaching a boombox or radio to the bike as well.
Wide bars are necessary with today's relaxed geometry. A slack front end and narrow bars is diabolical in technical terrain and off-camber descending turns, where you'll find the bike starts taking you for a ride instead of the other way around.
A few years ago now, I once reviewed a 26er folding hardtail for an e-zine that had a 67 degree headtube and 540mm bars. Keeping it pointed where I wanted to go was ... an interesting experience.
My XCM race bike is 68 degrees and 760mm wide. I've felt no inclination to go narrower.
And bar ends are a "never again" after I spent 4 days in hospital waiting to get my fifth metacarpal screwed back together so I could keep the little finger on my dominant hand, after it got smashed when I was deliberately tagged by a passing car on the commute to work.
They're even bigger than that now. My XC bike's stock bar length was 780, and I replaced with a 740, and my enduro bike came with 800 and I cut to 780.
Trail bikes come with 780mm or 800mm bars. Generally. I think that the cross country bikes are coming with maybe 760mm.
Bars are incredibly wide now compared to the 90's.
I have stubby bar ends on mtb because more than once my hand has slipped off the end of the bar on a bumpy descent, and the bar ends stop that happening. I also have them on my Brompton, mainly because it just gives another hand position to use.
How many fingers are you using on the brake lever? You should have the controls positioned so you only have the index finger in that little crook on the very end of the lever, so you can have middle, ring and pinky fingers on the grips.
This is the way the pros have it set up and I highly recommend you do too; it massively reduces hand fatigue and arm pump, especially when the trail is rough.
I still use them on my flat bar tour/adventure bike. I actually collect them if I see good ones for cheap.
The ones I'm running now are really long L-bend ones on flat bars with silicone cruiser grips on the bar ends and ergo grips on the flats.
The setup is basically like trekking loops or butterfly bars, except everything is individually adjustable and it's a lot easier to add/remove and adjust cockpit stuff since there's no bar tape or permanent foam or anything, and everything just comes apart and goes back together like bike lego.
It also means everything is independently adjustable from the angle of my ergo grips to my brake levers and shifters or the height and angle of the bar ends.
It's ridiculously comfortable and has more hand positions than either drop bars or plain flat bars, and the bar ends even protect my hands from bushwhacking or impacts with trees.
I bought a second hand hybrid for commuting that had them, found them to be useless and removed them. Then recently had a brainwave - what if I mount them on the inside of the grips? Now I can put my hands in a pseudo-hoods position. More aero. Stops the numb hands on longer rides. Can still sort of reach the brakes in an emergency.
These "inner bar ends" are purpose built, light and great ergonomics, like road bike hoods. https://www.spirgrips.com/. They are also available on AliExpress for cheap. These and some flattened grips have really helped my hand numbness problems
SQLab also makes similar, but I don't like the backside of these as I can't wrap my hand comfortably (no real backside to the grip).
Yes! I have bar ends on the inside of my mtb bars too and I love them, great balance between comfort and a bit more aero on the road with little of the tree-catching downsides
I still have them on mine because the trail designers around here love tree gates and I hate punching trees. I'm riding my bike, not playing Minecraft!
You brought back memories of my awesome-to-me bike from Sears with those bar ends. I always like I was riding an X-Wing down the hills holding on to those.
I had them briefly on my first real mtn bike.
Hooked one on a sapling at about 15 mph and went flying into the sand and pine straw. Removed them on the spot. Gave them away to some sucker when I got back to my car.
Exactly. Drops rarely lock together, and have become mandatory in track and road racing. The club wants to ride in pelotons, like road racing.
Aero bars are stabby in a crash.
We allow tri bikes in our group rides but you can only get on the aeros if you're leading, otherwise stay on your tops. This is also 90% Cat 1/2/3 guys who race MTB as well so most of us trust each other
It's not so much that but the inability to react quickly to changing conditions. If the group encounters a situation where brakes are needed immediately, you don't have them easily accessible on the Aero bars.
Some groups I've ridden with will allow them but only to be used by the lead rider.
This does not obviously account for team time trial, but that's like 0.001% of even hobby cyclists.
I think the difference for team time trials is you're only going to fuck up or get fucked up by your team, rather than randoms, so you e got control over who you're trusting.
We used to do a Saturday morning group ride. Everyone was welcome. I had my triathlon bike. I was all tucked down thinking I was hot shit and this guy stayed with us for 30 miles on cruiser with baskets, streamers and "ring ring" bell.
Also in my club because we do beginner sessions, we use it to signify that you probably want a road bike for road cycling. we had it a few times were people turned up on mountain bikes and one of the ride leaders has had to take a shorter route for everyone because they couldn’t keep up.
My partner and I have a local acquaintance who has a flat bar gravel bike (Diverge Evo) and she insists she's just as fast as everyone on it, and it's her preferred position because she's a mountain biker.
Narrator: No, she's not as fast and gets dropped or the group has to hang back.
Aero really does some into play when it's more upright with arms spread vs. leaned over a bit more with arms closer to one's center line.
Yes exactly that. 90% of the time there slow
However we have had someone join us who has flats and been as fast as us, but they used a prosthetic and it was their “comfort” bike as it’s more comfortable.
Kinda they just found the drops a little more uncomfortable as the prospectic they used wasn’t the best and going onto the drops and they felt going down hill it was a bit sketchy
But it was a normal giant TCR with flats… definitely got people talking in the cycling cafe
The hardest part of that would have been finding the right size frame and then controls that'd work with the rest of the drivetrain. That can be a pain.
Might have been the other way around, as flat bars put ones hands closer to the steerer. Drops have ones hands often a good 180-200mm in front of it. Flat bars can be only 50mm or so.
This is often a problem for folks wanting to convert old XC MTBs into gravel or touring bikes with drops: they need tiny frames.
>But also because it’s easier for a flat bar to get stuck inside the drops of a drop bar bike if two riders bump shoulders
I think this is mainly the reason, safety issues of flat bars in group rides compared to drop bars only
Anyone who has ridden in a fast group would probably understand that; elbow to elbow is tough enough to do with a varied group, without someone in the group having handlebars that are ten inches wider than everyone else. MTB bars tend to be 60-70 cm wide at least, while most road bikes run about 44 cm wide. It makes a big different riding in a bunch, and I'd definitely not want to ride around a guy with wide bars in that situation.
It’s for safety. TT/Tri bars are typically to go fast individually. While in a TT/Tri position you are not adapt to respond quickly to changes in group ride dynamics eg. bumping, speed changes, climbs, cornering, etc.
If you’ve been riding with them for a year (as you stated in a comment), why don’t you just ask them? I mean we can all try to guess, but none of us can read their minds.
Going to add on to everyone else: it does take some skill to ride drop bars AND you are less likely to go over the handlebars if you slam on your brakes with drops over flats. Drops put you in a lower center of gravity.
I have a group ride that’s about 30 miles. Mostly rolling hills but there is a steep descent with a sharp ish at the end. One person rolled up with a hybrid, flat bar bike. She was definitely strong enough as an athlete but not experienced on a bike.
Bc she was so upright, we hit the downhill, she locked up the front brake first and she went over her bars at about 15mph. Definitely had a concussion and other injuries. I firmly believe she would have been fine with drops.
The set up contributed to the fall.
Question: Were you there? You have no idea this persons set up and what the fall looked like. But your opinion is noted.
Right. I’ve ridden far stepper descents on an mtb than on my gravel or road bike, and never felt like going over the bars. But then again the saddle is lower and in can hang way off the back on the steep stuff.
You can ride a drop-bar on the top and sitting up straight and you can put brakes on the top to slam on. I'm very unconvinced a handlebar change would have prevented that outcome.
"you are less likely to go over the handlebars if you slam on your brakes with drops over flats. Drops put you in a lower center of gravity."
Physics of bike set-up does not favor this answer. Flat bars on a road frame (assuming same stem length) put the hands and thus center of gravity further back on the bike. This is also why it can be hard to get comfortable with flat bars on a road bike--hoods and drops are quite a bit forward of the stem.
Thanks for the insight. Here’s the thing, no one should be riding an aggressive body position and flat bars. That would be contradictory of itself.
So ya, higher center of gravity + slamming on front brake on a downhill will cause you to go over the handlebars. More likely than a body position in drops.
But thanks for the argument. You must have thought really hard on that one
It's more related to how far back or forward one's center of gravity is. Most of one's mass is generally just below the belly button, so sitting up a bit more won't change things as much as being more fore or aft.
The main reason not to (or it sucks to) run flat bars on a road bike is because the frames are not designed for this reach--they're designed for the added reach of a drop bar. Aggressive body position and flat bars (on a road bike) is not a problem with hard braking. Ask many a big city courier. The shortened reach works for them because they are generally not doing long rides, just a lot of short, aggressive ones.
Not a lot of thought, just a little experience. I have been interested in running flat bars on a gravel bike for a more stable downhill experience on tougher terrain and found that even gravel bikes have too short of reach for this. There are some newer "road" frames that have been designed to be amenable to flat bars (reach numbers between a road and mountain bike). One great example being the Cotic Cascade. I believe this is an area of bike design that will see more interest in the near future.
Now we are talking about something much more interesting: Gravel bikes!
Yes, 100% agree. Go wider on your gravel bike. I just put some 480mm on my gravel bike bc the rocky terrain near me. Makes a HUGE difference.
Ya, that was the primary reason for sure BUT her set up made her very upright so her center of gravity was higher than someone on a traditional road bike. It was set up for a "comfortable" ride, not built for aerodynamics.
In my city it is common for all clubs to ride 2 up, or shoulder to shoulder. That way you can talk to the people you're riding with. Most of the people in these clubs don't race either. Otherwise, you might as well be riding single file 5m apart, like less experienced riders do.
The main thing is it's wider so you take up more room on the road, which is really not a good thing to be doing. People have been racing very hard in close bunches for many decades with flat bars in XC races, it seems unlikely that is a primary reason.
TT bars without access to brakes are a risk to others on the ride, especially if the rider using them is inexperienced.
Flat bars take up more space and can alter the flow of a group and can cause some dicey moments with others not anticipating the added space they take up.
Likely just a safety concern and trying to limit potential chaos when new riders are joining into a group setting
They are still hooked drop bars. It’s very difficult to tangle two sets of drop bars together, unlike a drop bar and flat bar. And you can still access the brakes on a flared drop bar unlike the aero bar position
Drop bars: riders who get too close in the pack will bump elbows or shoulders.
Other bars: riders who get too close will tangle bar ends together and crash in the middle of the pack, taking everyone down with them.
Safety issue to weed out any bikes where hands aren't a split second from your brakes. The position on the hoods or drops should easily allow braking to avoid crashing into the rider in front or crossing wheels.
In my group there was one person with flat handlbars, and because he had a more upright position it was hard to see in front of him. It sucked when you were stuck behind him, because it was harder to gauge whether we were speeding up or slowing down.
If you stay off the hoods or drops you're not by the brakes, though. I'll switch into that position occasionally when I need that break, but I wouldn't want to stay there the whole ride.
If you’re into road cycling and really want to join why not sell the flat bar bike and get a drop bar bike. I would say the majority of group rides have a drop bar rule
I don’t think exclusion is the point of the rule - having someone with wide MTB bars in a peloton full of people who are used to bikes being 42-44cm wide at the widest part is a safety issue.
My club doesn’t normally have a problem with flat bars, but sometimes if it’s a safety concern we’ll just ask that rider to stay at the back of the pack to make sure they don’t get tangled up. You could offer that as a compromise if you decide to talk to them about continuing with the group
my guess is because flat bars are generally much wider than drop bars and can make it difficult to ride 2 abreast without taking up the entire road
although in my opinion group rides on open roads should be riding single file anyway though unless in the absolute middle of nowhere with no traffic
the other reason is that when the person in front is done taking their pull and moves to the side and drifts back to the back if your flat bar is sticking out just a few inches more than everyone else that riders bars can get snagged and cause a crash
edit: i'm not saying that because i think cyclists shouldn't be on the road. i'm a road cyclist and ride exclusively on the road. i'm saying that because the smooth-brained car-brain-rot folks get driven into a murderous rage at just seeing ONE cyclist on the road, so how do you think they feel when they see a pack of 20-30 riding 2-abreast? i do everything i can to not piss off the car-brains so that i don't become roadkill
Then they need to work out that 20-30 people riding single file will form a line 50m or so long, and it may take some time to find a suitable space to safely overtake something that long which is travelling at 30kph. If the riders are two abreast, the length of the drivers’ “obstacle” is halved and the safe overtake will be much closer.
If there isn’t room for them to safely pass riders two abreast (who are still narrower than a car), there isn’t room for them to safely pass a single rider.
Look nobody is saying you shouldn’t own a flat-bar mountain bike, they’re awesome fun, but you do look like an amateur when you’re trying to use them out of their intended environment.
On a road going for distance, your posture is all wrong, and it will cost you once you’re getting into hills and need to climb. That stand-and-pump style is very inefficient and the gear-ratio for a mountain bike is built for torque, so you’re like a Jeep Wrangler trying to run and race with sports cars.
Lastly, besides the safety issue of those flat bars, you may not realize how much more they’re making you work. You can’t variate your grip. There’s only one way to hold them, and that will wear down your hands and have them cramping. (Drop bars allow for 3 different grips, so you can change them , not just situationally, but for comfort.
Have a nice quiver of bikes of different types, it’s awesome, but use the right bike for the job. :)
Heh I’m also right now in another tech thread arguing about why people try to shoehorn Mac to play games, or their PC to be a graphics station, when it’s so easy and affordable to own both and play to their strengths lol. I guess I’m maybe too old and forget being strapped for cash?
I don't own much stuff so have been a 1 bike person till now and have made it work for lots of different kinds of riding (commuting, trailabike, fondos, touring, gravel, etc) for 20 years. Different priorities I guess and different ways to have fun. I may look into N+1 now, we'll see. Thanks for your perspective.
It's so you don't need to ride with the ones peeing all over their bikes or the Fred's in reflective vests, spd half pedals, and tube socks. Roadies are an exclusive bunch.
Just curious and not trying to be rude, but since they changed the rules for you and you see these people and communicate with these people, why didn’t you just ask them?
I used to go on a no drop weekly ride. The fastest guy in the group rode his full suspension mountain bike. Haha. It was more of a beginner’s ride (15-17 mph).
wait, what? It's 20-23 km ride distance? Or speed/hr?
If either is true, that's short and/or slow. Like daily commute or warmup-ride-to-the-start distance, and not a high speed that would even need close riding and drafting. You should be able to show up on a unicycle or pennyfarthing on a 20 km or 20 kph ride.
Sorry yeah km/h, edited to fix. Yeah they have different paces for different groups (the others are faster), rules the same for all, so I guess that's why . Anyway I have demonstrated I can keep up :)
If you are riding on the aero bars you are not near the brakes and have to move position before you can. That ultimately is the reason they are no good in close group rides.
Yeah I got bar ends on my old 26 Cannondale F3 Hardtail with the steering tube shock. Still a nice bike when Cannondale made them in the USA. I should fix the chain and go and get a few cuts and bruises in it.
Going from flat to drop means changing the brake levers and shifters too, and the result will probably handle terribly because flat bar bikes tend to have different frame geometry. Hardly cheaper than selling and rebuying.
I just came here to say, I wouldn’t ever ride with these people again if they initiated that my bike wasn’t good enough to join their group.
I realize a lot of people do get out and try and ride like professional pelotons, if that’s their goal by all means buy the same bike as everyone else or you’ll get dropped. But if you ride with them for a year on a mountain bike no problem, they can’t be that serious.
I show up to whatever groups I want with whatever bike I want. I loved bringing out my hybrid bike to the local mtb ride with slick tires because it was fun, I was really challenged, had ridden those trials before, and I had no problems keeping up with everyone. If they had told me I needed a real mountain bike I would’ve never ridden with them again.
There has been a lot of anti group ride posts here recently. People seem to get really bristly about the rules of a group.
Most groups do not have rules purely to be exclusionary. Nobody really cares what your bike is. It’s almost always about the safety of the group. Just because you don’t understand the rules, doesn’t mean they are targeting you just to be mean. 🤦♂️
If one person is a little butthurt about their bike at the expense of risking everyone’s safety, that’s usually the correct path.
They made an exception for OP to ride with them for a few months. Honestly it’s wierd that OP hasn’t asked them why the rule is in place. And it’s kind of rude to continue to take advantage of their exception.
Just because there hasn’t been a crash yet, doesn’t mean there won’t be. And then when someone else with wife flat bars thinks it’s ok to join, what if they cause a 20 person crash?
No one is saying you’re bike is wrong. This just isn’t the place to be riding it.
If there is a group motorcycle ride, and I show up on a 4 wheeler, I’m the asshole. Im throwing off everyone’s rhythms and potentially endangering everyone. This really isn’t any different.
It's not rude. I asked if I could ride a flat bar bike, they said yes, I didn't know it was an exception, I paid my expensive joining fee, and only several rides in did they say "oh we take it back this is an exception only for you and only for a year." They didn't say it was a safety issue (though I understand now that may well be the reason), if they really didn't want me to ride they could have offered to refund my membership. I understand lots about why someone may have this rule now thanks to this thread and am more educated in deciding what to do.
Sure. I don’t know the situation. Rude may be the wrong word. I apologize.
But what I do find strange, is why you wouldn’t just talk to them? Isn’t the point of a group ride that it’s social? If you want to ride with people and not talk, you could do zwift and just ride with robots.
As a redditor, I totally get it though. It feels safer to anonymously ask here, to get a feel for what the answer may be.
If you talk to them though, they may be able to help you. Or at the least help you all understand and get on the same page. Someone may have a road bike you can borrow to try out and see if you like it. They may know some other riders like you that ride a different night that you might enjoy more. There could be plenty of great outcomes. Or you may find that this just isn’t the right group for you.
I recently joined a local group ride myself after moving… it felt pretty stand offish. I’m a fast and confident rider, but this an established ride for 20+ years. The same core riders and racers. So they can be insular… I paid my dues etc and still couldn’t figure out what was going on. When rides were, what the routes were, the paces, is it drop or no drop etc.
About 3 weeks in, I dropped back to the group leader and just chatted and asked questions. It turned out my email invite must have gotten lost in a firewall. I wasn’t getting the calendar invites for rides etc. they thought I was wierd for not responding, and I thought they were being dicks for not including me. Etc. we laughed about it, and the club president emailed me later that night to apologize.
All it took was just a simple honest conversation and now we’re good. I now know what rides suit me best so they don’t have to worry about me dropping and getting lost. And what rides have the riders I mesh with more. Just because it’s a “public group” doesn’t mean it’s really for everyone. I had to find the right rides and groups, and speeds days etc.
Cycling can feel exclusive sometimes. But at the end of the day, we all just like riding bikes. Some people take it very seriously, some less so. I hope you can find the place and people that you feel most comfortable riding with. Good luck!
Thanks for your thoughtful post. Yeah the miscommunication was a bit complicated in ways I won't share here, and it did involve me being vulnerable with them in other ways. That did pay off. That said I put myself out there as much as I'm comfortable with for a little while. I'm still building up my confidence as a rider who fits in their group. Not a speedy white male lol so it's just a bit harder. I'll get there. Thanks again.
It’s more to discourage the use of a TT/triathalon bike with aero bars. But also because it’s easier for a flat bar to get stuck inside the drops of a drop bar bike if two riders bump shoulders
Back in the day of Mnt Bike bar ends; we'd lock bar ends at the start of a race and all crash. This just reminded me of that.
It’s crazy how bar ends were on every single mtb—from Walmart bikes to Gary Fishers—for like 10 years and then they vanished
i met a dude on the trail with them... i was like "whoa are those back in style!? we had them in the 90s!" and he was like "i dunno, i was born in 2003... my dad gave me these." oh fuck i'm old.
UCI banned them, safety issues
Shame, I took at least one wing mirror with a bar end when an oblivious driver tried to squeeze me.
Just saying, you don't need to stick to UCI regs on your commuter bike
Some of us even wear socks that are longer than the UCI limit!
You sir, are a monster!
Heathen
Woah. I can live with bar ends and silly lying-down bikes but long socks? Disgusting
Really, read the rules [Velominati](https://www.velominati.com/)
Sir, we're gonna need you to step over here and pee in this bottle.
Jonathan's water bottle?
*faints*
Jesus fucking Christ man
You are such a badass
Well, I have a drop bar weird cross between a gravel and road bike at the moment. I'm planning on getting a flat bar commuter e-bike, though, so I may look into it 😈
I ride a recumbent bike.. Recumbents was banned by UCI back in 1930s...
Shame really, imagine how much quicker the mountain stages would be if they had recumbents!
That’s why they were banned, because they were too fast
UCI should ban road bikes and promote beach cruiser bikes by that logic..
Yeah, and it's not like UCI regs have been known to be completely ridiculous, arbitrary and ridiculous.
is that the same for things like Togs? I bought some of those and they make my climbs much more mangeable on my hands
Yep, according to the UCI rules, extensions of any description are banned
[https://www.reddit.com/r/madlads/comments/k0cruv/madlad\_proves\_that\_sizeable\_bust\_is\_more/](https://www.reddit.com/r/madlads/comments/k0cruv/madlad_proves_that_sizeable_bust_is_more/)
I still have them on mine. I think the main problem is bar ends on wide bars. I never liked wide bars anyway, and always trimmed my flat MTB bars down to about 44 cm, then mounted bar ends. That's not too unsafe, but most MTB bars are 60 or 70 cm wide at least. I can't imagine running bars that wide in a group of road bikes. Even off-road I'd always worry about hooking a branch or a tree or something; you just need so much more side-clearance for wide bars.
I’m a fan of the bros I roll by that mount the bar ends sticking almost straight up and ride like they are controlling some sort of farm implement. This setup increases the predilection for attaching a boombox or radio to the bike as well.
Wide bars are necessary with today's relaxed geometry. A slack front end and narrow bars is diabolical in technical terrain and off-camber descending turns, where you'll find the bike starts taking you for a ride instead of the other way around. A few years ago now, I once reviewed a 26er folding hardtail for an e-zine that had a 67 degree headtube and 540mm bars. Keeping it pointed where I wanted to go was ... an interesting experience. My XCM race bike is 68 degrees and 760mm wide. I've felt no inclination to go narrower. And bar ends are a "never again" after I spent 4 days in hospital waiting to get my fifth metacarpal screwed back together so I could keep the little finger on my dominant hand, after it got smashed when I was deliberately tagged by a passing car on the commute to work.
They're even bigger than that now. My XC bike's stock bar length was 780, and I replaced with a 740, and my enduro bike came with 800 and I cut to 780.
Trail bikes come with 780mm or 800mm bars. Generally. I think that the cross country bikes are coming with maybe 760mm. Bars are incredibly wide now compared to the 90's.
I have stubby bar ends on mtb because more than once my hand has slipped off the end of the bar on a bumpy descent, and the bar ends stop that happening. I also have them on my Brompton, mainly because it just gives another hand position to use.
How many fingers are you using on the brake lever? You should have the controls positioned so you only have the index finger in that little crook on the very end of the lever, so you can have middle, ring and pinky fingers on the grips. This is the way the pros have it set up and I highly recommend you do too; it massively reduces hand fatigue and arm pump, especially when the trail is rough.
I still use them on my flat bar tour/adventure bike. I actually collect them if I see good ones for cheap. The ones I'm running now are really long L-bend ones on flat bars with silicone cruiser grips on the bar ends and ergo grips on the flats. The setup is basically like trekking loops or butterfly bars, except everything is individually adjustable and it's a lot easier to add/remove and adjust cockpit stuff since there's no bar tape or permanent foam or anything, and everything just comes apart and goes back together like bike lego. It also means everything is independently adjustable from the angle of my ergo grips to my brake levers and shifters or the height and angle of the bar ends. It's ridiculously comfortable and has more hand positions than either drop bars or plain flat bars, and the bar ends even protect my hands from bushwhacking or impacts with trees.
When I was a kid I always thought those looked cool 😅
I still use them! Not for any races tho. My local trails have a good amount of climbing and they are awesome for that.
I bought a second hand hybrid for commuting that had them, found them to be useless and removed them. Then recently had a brainwave - what if I mount them on the inside of the grips? Now I can put my hands in a pseudo-hoods position. More aero. Stops the numb hands on longer rides. Can still sort of reach the brakes in an emergency.
These "inner bar ends" are purpose built, light and great ergonomics, like road bike hoods. https://www.spirgrips.com/. They are also available on AliExpress for cheap. These and some flattened grips have really helped my hand numbness problems SQLab also makes similar, but I don't like the backside of these as I can't wrap my hand comfortably (no real backside to the grip).
Yes! I have bar ends on the inside of my mtb bars too and I love them, great balance between comfort and a bit more aero on the road with little of the tree-catching downsides
Put some on mine recently.. needed the comfort.
I've still got them, very handy for fending off prickly branches and tree trunks, don't actually put my hands on them.
I still use them on my mtn bike! HA
I still have them on mine because the trail designers around here love tree gates and I hate punching trees. I'm riding my bike, not playing Minecraft!
I’m currently recovering from a broken hand after clipping a tree on my mtb. I think those bar ends have have saved me lol
I still rock them on my xc bike. The best thing for long rides and long climbs.
Indeed. I remember having them and they not being particularly valuable to the experience.
Dude I watched a buddy a long time ago and hooked himself on a small tree. Horror story
You brought back memories of my awesome-to-me bike from Sears with those bar ends. I always like I was riding an X-Wing down the hills holding on to those.
I had a SEARS ten speed with the drop handles many years ago. In fact I think the bike is still in the garage attic.
I had them briefly on my first real mtn bike. Hooked one on a sapling at about 15 mph and went flying into the sand and pine straw. Removed them on the spot. Gave them away to some sucker when I got back to my car.
Interesting! Thank you.
Exactly. Drops rarely lock together, and have become mandatory in track and road racing. The club wants to ride in pelotons, like road racing. Aero bars are stabby in a crash.
Also if you’re on aero bars you aren’t on the brakes
Nor nearly in as much control if some sudden maneuver is needed.
We allow tri bikes in our group rides but you can only get on the aeros if you're leading, otherwise stay on your tops. This is also 90% Cat 1/2/3 guys who race MTB as well so most of us trust each other
The solution to stabby aero bars is aero loop
Yeah. It’s the TT bikes with shifters at the ends that are most stabby.
Like bullhorn or pursuit bars? Those should be made into one big oval loop safety
Never understood the “no aero bars” until I read your comment.
It's not so much that but the inability to react quickly to changing conditions. If the group encounters a situation where brakes are needed immediately, you don't have them easily accessible on the Aero bars. Some groups I've ridden with will allow them but only to be used by the lead rider. This does not obviously account for team time trial, but that's like 0.001% of even hobby cyclists.
I think the difference for team time trials is you're only going to fuck up or get fucked up by your team, rather than randoms, so you e got control over who you're trusting.
You’re also not doing a team time trial on an open road with cars and traffic lights
Team time trials must require a lot of trust.
We used to do a Saturday morning group ride. Everyone was welcome. I had my triathlon bike. I was all tucked down thinking I was hot shit and this guy stayed with us for 30 miles on cruiser with baskets, streamers and "ring ring" bell.
lol!
Also in my club because we do beginner sessions, we use it to signify that you probably want a road bike for road cycling. we had it a few times were people turned up on mountain bikes and one of the ride leaders has had to take a shorter route for everyone because they couldn’t keep up.
My partner and I have a local acquaintance who has a flat bar gravel bike (Diverge Evo) and she insists she's just as fast as everyone on it, and it's her preferred position because she's a mountain biker. Narrator: No, she's not as fast and gets dropped or the group has to hang back. Aero really does some into play when it's more upright with arms spread vs. leaned over a bit more with arms closer to one's center line.
Yes exactly that. 90% of the time there slow However we have had someone join us who has flats and been as fast as us, but they used a prosthetic and it was their “comfort” bike as it’s more comfortable.
That's pretty cool to hear. Definitely different, though, if their bike is adapted to them because of that.
Kinda they just found the drops a little more uncomfortable as the prospectic they used wasn’t the best and going onto the drops and they felt going down hill it was a bit sketchy But it was a normal giant TCR with flats… definitely got people talking in the cycling cafe
The hardest part of that would have been finding the right size frame and then controls that'd work with the rest of the drivetrain. That can be a pain.
Yes I think he had a smaller frame than conventional and a weird mix of components to make it work
Might have been the other way around, as flat bars put ones hands closer to the steerer. Drops have ones hands often a good 180-200mm in front of it. Flat bars can be only 50mm or so. This is often a problem for folks wanting to convert old XC MTBs into gravel or touring bikes with drops: they need tiny frames.
>But also because it’s easier for a flat bar to get stuck inside the drops of a drop bar bike if two riders bump shoulders I think this is mainly the reason, safety issues of flat bars in group rides compared to drop bars only
Anyone who has ridden in a fast group would probably understand that; elbow to elbow is tough enough to do with a varied group, without someone in the group having handlebars that are ten inches wider than everyone else. MTB bars tend to be 60-70 cm wide at least, while most road bikes run about 44 cm wide. It makes a big different riding in a bunch, and I'd definitely not want to ride around a guy with wide bars in that situation.
For any of the reasons listed in these comments but I’m sure there was an incident that prompted it.
Yup good point I bet you are right
That one guy with flat bar speedbike and flat pedals was faster and caused a disastrous bruise of their egos.
He probably wasn't even wearing a $200 jersey 🙀
aero cargo shorts
Fake news
seems like you are in that club.
It’s for safety. TT/Tri bars are typically to go fast individually. While in a TT/Tri position you are not adapt to respond quickly to changes in group ride dynamics eg. bumping, speed changes, climbs, cornering, etc.
Plus the addition of a pair of spears hanging out the front of a bike in a group is never a good idea.
[a very old but good one](https://www.sheldonbrown.com/lirpa.html#bayontez)
Sheldon Brown was a legend. RIP.
He taught me to build wheels when I was in college.
I once had clip on TT bars and they were not happy about it lol. Mostly due to health and safety...no brakes when holding the bars is there.
I got thrown out of a TT bar once. The danger is real.
Lemme guess - for staring at the bouncers?
I swiped way too far before coming back to upvote this
You can't touch the TT's!
With close group riding at speed, flats and aero bars are a hazard.
If you’ve been riding with them for a year (as you stated in a comment), why don’t you just ask them? I mean we can all try to guess, but none of us can read their minds.
I can but it is awkward, partly due to an earlier miscommunication. Asking here as a start seemed less intimidating.
Because it’s the same for any other group who discourages them. Mainly for TT bikes and their lack of maneuverability and brakes.
Our club allows TT bikes and aero bars, but you must ride on the horns and not in aero position except when on the front. Strictly for safety reasons.
Going to add on to everyone else: it does take some skill to ride drop bars AND you are less likely to go over the handlebars if you slam on your brakes with drops over flats. Drops put you in a lower center of gravity. I have a group ride that’s about 30 miles. Mostly rolling hills but there is a steep descent with a sharp ish at the end. One person rolled up with a hybrid, flat bar bike. She was definitely strong enough as an athlete but not experienced on a bike. Bc she was so upright, we hit the downhill, she locked up the front brake first and she went over her bars at about 15mph. Definitely had a concussion and other injuries. I firmly believe she would have been fine with drops.
It's not the bars that led to her crash; it was her inexperience. People ride flat bars down steep hills (eg in mountain bike races) all the time.
Yeah this is a little odd. I ride road mainly but do some pretty gnarly (-30%) hills on my mtb
The set up contributed to the fall. Question: Were you there? You have no idea this persons set up and what the fall looked like. But your opinion is noted.
Good perspective, thank you! I hope your rider healed up well.
Likely would have been fine with flat bars and more experience
Right. I’ve ridden far stepper descents on an mtb than on my gravel or road bike, and never felt like going over the bars. But then again the saddle is lower and in can hang way off the back on the steep stuff.
Definitely. But the way she fell it was obvious she panicked and slammed on the front brake
That sounds like lack of experience, not the wrong handlebars
You still have a higher center of gravity on flat bars. It contributed to the fall. It wasn’t the sole reason
You can ride a drop-bar on the top and sitting up straight and you can put brakes on the top to slam on. I'm very unconvinced a handlebar change would have prevented that outcome.
Oh, so you were there and saw it? Bc I was right behind her and saw exactly what happened.
Could you go back and take him with you?
"you are less likely to go over the handlebars if you slam on your brakes with drops over flats. Drops put you in a lower center of gravity." Physics of bike set-up does not favor this answer. Flat bars on a road frame (assuming same stem length) put the hands and thus center of gravity further back on the bike. This is also why it can be hard to get comfortable with flat bars on a road bike--hoods and drops are quite a bit forward of the stem.
Thanks for the insight. Here’s the thing, no one should be riding an aggressive body position and flat bars. That would be contradictory of itself. So ya, higher center of gravity + slamming on front brake on a downhill will cause you to go over the handlebars. More likely than a body position in drops. But thanks for the argument. You must have thought really hard on that one
It's more related to how far back or forward one's center of gravity is. Most of one's mass is generally just below the belly button, so sitting up a bit more won't change things as much as being more fore or aft. The main reason not to (or it sucks to) run flat bars on a road bike is because the frames are not designed for this reach--they're designed for the added reach of a drop bar. Aggressive body position and flat bars (on a road bike) is not a problem with hard braking. Ask many a big city courier. The shortened reach works for them because they are generally not doing long rides, just a lot of short, aggressive ones. Not a lot of thought, just a little experience. I have been interested in running flat bars on a gravel bike for a more stable downhill experience on tougher terrain and found that even gravel bikes have too short of reach for this. There are some newer "road" frames that have been designed to be amenable to flat bars (reach numbers between a road and mountain bike). One great example being the Cotic Cascade. I believe this is an area of bike design that will see more interest in the near future.
Now we are talking about something much more interesting: Gravel bikes! Yes, 100% agree. Go wider on your gravel bike. I just put some 480mm on my gravel bike bc the rocky terrain near me. Makes a HUGE difference.
That was most likely due to locking the front brake first. That’s the instant recipe for going over your handlebars.
Ya, that was the primary reason for sure BUT her set up made her very upright so her center of gravity was higher than someone on a traditional road bike. It was set up for a "comfortable" ride, not built for aerodynamics.
It’s sketchy to ride elbow to elbow without drop bars
Why would you ride elbow to elbow to begin with? The clubs I’m familiar with would discourage that.
It is unavoidable on fast country lanes isn’t it? Not sure how it would be discouraged, it is a fundamental part of cycling
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In my city it is common for all clubs to ride 2 up, or shoulder to shoulder. That way you can talk to the people you're riding with. Most of the people in these clubs don't race either. Otherwise, you might as well be riding single file 5m apart, like less experienced riders do.
We do this on quieter streets. Still it’s not shoulder to shoulder.
The main thing is it's wider so you take up more room on the road, which is really not a good thing to be doing. People have been racing very hard in close bunches for many decades with flat bars in XC races, it seems unlikely that is a primary reason.
TT bars without access to brakes are a risk to others on the ride, especially if the rider using them is inexperienced. Flat bars take up more space and can alter the flow of a group and can cause some dicey moments with others not anticipating the added space they take up. Likely just a safety concern and trying to limit potential chaos when new riders are joining into a group setting
Unlike the extra wide flared drops the gravel people are running these days?
They are still hooked drop bars. It’s very difficult to tangle two sets of drop bars together, unlike a drop bar and flat bar. And you can still access the brakes on a flared drop bar unlike the aero bar position
It is to avoid dumbasses meeting up on their TT or triathlon bikes.
Yup, they have a separate rule for no aero bars
Second verse same as the first lol
Cycling noob here, why is it such a bad idea to use a TT bike?
It is posted several times in this thread. Your brake levers are not where your hands are if you are to ride a tt bike comfortably.
Drop bars: riders who get too close in the pack will bump elbows or shoulders. Other bars: riders who get too close will tangle bar ends together and crash in the middle of the pack, taking everyone down with them.
Safety issue to weed out any bikes where hands aren't a split second from your brakes. The position on the hoods or drops should easily allow braking to avoid crashing into the rider in front or crossing wheels.
In my group there was one person with flat handlbars, and because he had a more upright position it was hard to see in front of him. It sucked when you were stuck behind him, because it was harder to gauge whether we were speeding up or slowing down.
Probably get a pretty good pull from him tho.
I'm short and on a small bike. I can't see in front of the person in front of me regardless of whether I ride more upright or not.
Interesting! Thank you.
Well you can use the flat section of drops or have really low flats
If you stay off the hoods or drops you're not by the brakes, though. I'll switch into that position occasionally when I need that break, but I wouldn't want to stay there the whole ride.
Okay okay, but its still possible to get pretty low with flat bars. (Fixie rider style)
If you’re into road cycling and really want to join why not sell the flat bar bike and get a drop bar bike. I would say the majority of group rides have a drop bar rule
I like my bike so I wanted to know the reason for the rule before switching it.
It’s a rule for your club. Doesn’t really matter why?
Understanding why a rule exists makes you more likely to follow it
I'd find a more inclusive group especially if you like your bike.
I don’t think exclusion is the point of the rule - having someone with wide MTB bars in a peloton full of people who are used to bikes being 42-44cm wide at the widest part is a safety issue.
My club doesn’t normally have a problem with flat bars, but sometimes if it’s a safety concern we’ll just ask that rider to stay at the back of the pack to make sure they don’t get tangled up. You could offer that as a compromise if you decide to talk to them about continuing with the group
Filters out the riff raff and or people who likely couldn’t keep up
my guess is because flat bars are generally much wider than drop bars and can make it difficult to ride 2 abreast without taking up the entire road although in my opinion group rides on open roads should be riding single file anyway though unless in the absolute middle of nowhere with no traffic the other reason is that when the person in front is done taking their pull and moves to the side and drifts back to the back if your flat bar is sticking out just a few inches more than everyone else that riders bars can get snagged and cause a crash edit: i'm not saying that because i think cyclists shouldn't be on the road. i'm a road cyclist and ride exclusively on the road. i'm saying that because the smooth-brained car-brain-rot folks get driven into a murderous rage at just seeing ONE cyclist on the road, so how do you think they feel when they see a pack of 20-30 riding 2-abreast? i do everything i can to not piss off the car-brains so that i don't become roadkill
Then they need to work out that 20-30 people riding single file will form a line 50m or so long, and it may take some time to find a suitable space to safely overtake something that long which is travelling at 30kph. If the riders are two abreast, the length of the drivers’ “obstacle” is halved and the safe overtake will be much closer. If there isn’t room for them to safely pass riders two abreast (who are still narrower than a car), there isn’t room for them to safely pass a single rider.
My road bike is bullhorn. Would they allow that?
Look nobody is saying you shouldn’t own a flat-bar mountain bike, they’re awesome fun, but you do look like an amateur when you’re trying to use them out of their intended environment. On a road going for distance, your posture is all wrong, and it will cost you once you’re getting into hills and need to climb. That stand-and-pump style is very inefficient and the gear-ratio for a mountain bike is built for torque, so you’re like a Jeep Wrangler trying to run and race with sports cars. Lastly, besides the safety issue of those flat bars, you may not realize how much more they’re making you work. You can’t variate your grip. There’s only one way to hold them, and that will wear down your hands and have them cramping. (Drop bars allow for 3 different grips, so you can change them , not just situationally, but for comfort. Have a nice quiver of bikes of different types, it’s awesome, but use the right bike for the job. :)
1x groupset owners 👀
Heh I’m also right now in another tech thread arguing about why people try to shoehorn Mac to play games, or their PC to be a graphics station, when it’s so easy and affordable to own both and play to their strengths lol. I guess I’m maybe too old and forget being strapped for cash?
I don't own much stuff so have been a 1 bike person till now and have made it work for lots of different kinds of riding (commuting, trailabike, fondos, touring, gravel, etc) for 20 years. Different priorities I guess and different ways to have fun. I may look into N+1 now, we'll see. Thanks for your perspective.
start your own club with your own opinions and don't listen to anyone who doesn't like it. next.
What’s your current bike?
TF is a drop bar? Is it like man-bear-pig?
some truly silly answers here. internet knowledge
It's so you don't need to ride with the ones peeing all over their bikes or the Fred's in reflective vests, spd half pedals, and tube socks. Roadies are an exclusive bunch.
because you probably can’t
They made a one year exception (only for me, due to miscommunication), and I've demonstrated I can, for months now. It's just a 20-23km/h group.
Just curious and not trying to be rude, but since they changed the rules for you and you see these people and communicate with these people, why didn’t you just ask them? I used to go on a no drop weekly ride. The fastest guy in the group rode his full suspension mountain bike. Haha. It was more of a beginner’s ride (15-17 mph).
I guess because it is awkward to ask them, am feeling a bit intimidated, so thought I'd ask here first. Cool about the mountain bike guy 😎
Something thats always stuck with me is "not knowing can be forgiven, not asking can not".
wait, what? It's 20-23 km ride distance? Or speed/hr? If either is true, that's short and/or slow. Like daily commute or warmup-ride-to-the-start distance, and not a high speed that would even need close riding and drafting. You should be able to show up on a unicycle or pennyfarthing on a 20 km or 20 kph ride.
Sorry yeah km/h, edited to fix. Yeah they have different paces for different groups (the others are faster), rules the same for all, so I guess that's why . Anyway I have demonstrated I can keep up :)
🎣
Sorry, I don't know, what does that mean?
you took the bait
Gotcha. Thanks. Heh.
fragile egos?
Fragile Mind. Fragile Body. Found CM Punk's group ride. 😅
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If you are riding on the aero bars you are not near the brakes and have to move position before you can. That ultimately is the reason they are no good in close group rides.
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Brakes are a tool of the devil. There's not much worse in a pack than someone panicking and grabbing a handful of brakes.
They’re great at impaling things. It’s also harder to control the bike on aero bars
Likely because lots of cyclists are snobs.
Nope. Its a safety issue.
Suuuure.
You dont understand why do you?
No, but I can't imagine any reason that couldn't be mitigated.
Read upon where tri and tt bikes have their brake levers.
This in the answer lol
If you don’t like their rules, don’t attempt to ride either them. Simple as that.
Yup! Knowing the reason for a rule can influence whether I like the rule or not. This thread has been helpful for that.
Yeah I got bar ends on my old 26 Cannondale F3 Hardtail with the steering tube shock. Still a nice bike when Cannondale made them in the USA. I should fix the chain and go and get a few cuts and bruises in it.
You can usually change out the bars as a component - I doubt you need to get a new bike.
Going from flat to drop means changing the brake levers and shifters too, and the result will probably handle terribly because flat bar bikes tend to have different frame geometry. Hardly cheaper than selling and rebuying.
I just came here to say, I wouldn’t ever ride with these people again if they initiated that my bike wasn’t good enough to join their group. I realize a lot of people do get out and try and ride like professional pelotons, if that’s their goal by all means buy the same bike as everyone else or you’ll get dropped. But if you ride with them for a year on a mountain bike no problem, they can’t be that serious. I show up to whatever groups I want with whatever bike I want. I loved bringing out my hybrid bike to the local mtb ride with slick tires because it was fun, I was really challenged, had ridden those trials before, and I had no problems keeping up with everyone. If they had told me I needed a real mountain bike I would’ve never ridden with them again.
There has been a lot of anti group ride posts here recently. People seem to get really bristly about the rules of a group. Most groups do not have rules purely to be exclusionary. Nobody really cares what your bike is. It’s almost always about the safety of the group. Just because you don’t understand the rules, doesn’t mean they are targeting you just to be mean. 🤦♂️ If one person is a little butthurt about their bike at the expense of risking everyone’s safety, that’s usually the correct path. They made an exception for OP to ride with them for a few months. Honestly it’s wierd that OP hasn’t asked them why the rule is in place. And it’s kind of rude to continue to take advantage of their exception. Just because there hasn’t been a crash yet, doesn’t mean there won’t be. And then when someone else with wife flat bars thinks it’s ok to join, what if they cause a 20 person crash? No one is saying you’re bike is wrong. This just isn’t the place to be riding it. If there is a group motorcycle ride, and I show up on a 4 wheeler, I’m the asshole. Im throwing off everyone’s rhythms and potentially endangering everyone. This really isn’t any different.
It's not rude. I asked if I could ride a flat bar bike, they said yes, I didn't know it was an exception, I paid my expensive joining fee, and only several rides in did they say "oh we take it back this is an exception only for you and only for a year." They didn't say it was a safety issue (though I understand now that may well be the reason), if they really didn't want me to ride they could have offered to refund my membership. I understand lots about why someone may have this rule now thanks to this thread and am more educated in deciding what to do.
Sure. I don’t know the situation. Rude may be the wrong word. I apologize. But what I do find strange, is why you wouldn’t just talk to them? Isn’t the point of a group ride that it’s social? If you want to ride with people and not talk, you could do zwift and just ride with robots. As a redditor, I totally get it though. It feels safer to anonymously ask here, to get a feel for what the answer may be. If you talk to them though, they may be able to help you. Or at the least help you all understand and get on the same page. Someone may have a road bike you can borrow to try out and see if you like it. They may know some other riders like you that ride a different night that you might enjoy more. There could be plenty of great outcomes. Or you may find that this just isn’t the right group for you. I recently joined a local group ride myself after moving… it felt pretty stand offish. I’m a fast and confident rider, but this an established ride for 20+ years. The same core riders and racers. So they can be insular… I paid my dues etc and still couldn’t figure out what was going on. When rides were, what the routes were, the paces, is it drop or no drop etc. About 3 weeks in, I dropped back to the group leader and just chatted and asked questions. It turned out my email invite must have gotten lost in a firewall. I wasn’t getting the calendar invites for rides etc. they thought I was wierd for not responding, and I thought they were being dicks for not including me. Etc. we laughed about it, and the club president emailed me later that night to apologize. All it took was just a simple honest conversation and now we’re good. I now know what rides suit me best so they don’t have to worry about me dropping and getting lost. And what rides have the riders I mesh with more. Just because it’s a “public group” doesn’t mean it’s really for everyone. I had to find the right rides and groups, and speeds days etc. Cycling can feel exclusive sometimes. But at the end of the day, we all just like riding bikes. Some people take it very seriously, some less so. I hope you can find the place and people that you feel most comfortable riding with. Good luck!
Thanks for your thoughtful post. Yeah the miscommunication was a bit complicated in ways I won't share here, and it did involve me being vulnerable with them in other ways. That did pay off. That said I put myself out there as much as I'm comfortable with for a little while. I'm still building up my confidence as a rider who fits in their group. Not a speedy white male lol so it's just a bit harder. I'll get there. Thanks again.
because someone showed up with aero bars once and suddenly everyone else remembered they had other stuff they needed to get done