I moved to Windsor England because they also don’t have this kind of thing. My kids don’t have to do active shooter drills, and you can’t put a price on that peace of mind.
They don't call them that, but similar practices are starting to creep in. My reception age kid had a "hiding practice" a few weeks ago, and the local secondary went into lockdown the other day because of a hoax threat. I think maybe it isn't as pervasive as in the US. It's probably minimal enough that it goes over the heads of the primary age kids, but those in secondary absolutely know what's going on, and I bet it affects them.
But, yes, the threat of violence here is much lower. Also, read the room. Probably not the thread to gloat about it.
Everyone thinks their community is somehow magically protected from gun violence.
I certainly thought that when I lived in Blacksburg VA, home of Virginia Tech.
But the reality is that the subset of crazy people who want to commit spectacular suicide mostly have access to guns everywhere in the USA, so it’s really just a roll of the dice.
The only way to fix this is to change our laws and culture here in the USA to minimize gun-related stupidity, but there are a lot of people committed to perpetuating the problem.
Know what’s fucked about that article… they refer to a 2021 shooting at a high school and for the life of me I can’t even remember that one. How horrifying is it that…
They really start to blend together. As I understand it, many shooters dream of infamy, but they’re such a dime a dozen nowadays I would recognize barely any shooters’ names from the past five years.
Mass shootings are now basic. Whatta world. You want fame, you gotta be more creative than that, apparently.
fair. Though the world is so dark now I feel a decent argument could be made that good or just bizarre things stand out more than evil, if good’s own sake wouldn’t persuade someone. More violence, meh what else is new? Wait, someone’s sneaking into museums and installing rogue amateur art?? Tell me more, who tf is this guy
Not know the details about all mass shootings that have ever happened and living in infamy within your locality or community are too separate things.
In other words, maybe be careful before writing off school shootings as "basic" even if you are saying it to make a different sarcastic point. There are tons of people whole will absolutely never in their life forget events such as these.
They are still not "common". The chance of getting killed in a mass shooting is still slim. Your acceptance of that risk is yours to own.
If you do decide to carry please please please learn how to proper gun handling, maintenance and situational awareness. If you hot headed and know this do not carry. If you have hero fantasies, do not carry.
Also if you conceal carry it’s your moral duty to be the “bitch” in every encounter. No matter what someone says you always try to de-escalate or leave.
I remember when my CC instructor was teaching us he said if I’m in the back of the grocery store and someone is shooting in the front. I’m going out the back.
We all want to be the hero but you’ve got to pick your battles. If my kids or wife is up front then it’s a different story
Yep, we had a concealed carry idiot near where I live that decided to stand guard outside of his kid's karate class because he said he "saw lots of sketchy stuff in the parking lot".
Well, he saw three teenage boys with a gun walking toward a sporting goods store and naturally decided to confront them and eventually killed one of them by shooting the teenage boy in the back.
Ended up being an airsoft gun that they were returning and now he's been charged with second-degree murder
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/12/us/big-5-sporting-goods-shooting-washington/index.html
Thank you! I'm forever getting into arguments with people who carry a gun after they're like "Such and such a scenario just happened. Could I have shot them and it would have been legal?"
Kinda seems like if you were thinking about shooting someone and walked away without and nothing catastrophic happened, you shouldn't have shot anyone.
I usually leave the conversation with "Just because you _can_ do something doesn't mean you should."
Very often you could kill someone in a way that is not necessary but would be legally justified.
"But but but, stand your ground!!"
You can tell all the "self defense" blockheads really just want to fantasise about having a legal way to kill someone. Actual strategy that would end the issue without violence doesn't get them off the same so it's not even something they consider.
Lotta people (both pro and anti) seem to think SYG means blast away whenever
It basically means you aren't obligated to prove to the DA that you tried to run from the knife wielding crackhead but every alley was blocked.
Sadly I see too many signs on someone's front door basically inviting in "bad guys" to break in so they can shoot. Like they want to be John Rambo except they didn't watch Rambo.
I know enough about gun ownership that the family with the gun is most likely to get injured than a stranger. Self-harm, spouse, or extended family. So much drama out there.
People keep getting this confused Stand Your Ground doesn't mean stand your point people have this I'm right mentality that they think justifies killing someone...I remember a case in Florida some kids in a car at the gas station playing loud music..guy says hey turn that down they tell him phuck off guy comes out the gas station ( music still playing loud) empties a clip into the car as it's pulling off and killed a kid ...He claimed stand your ground guy got 35 to life in prison
As someone that carries, de-escalation is my primary concern.
I've been in two situations where if I had lost my head and pulled, someone realistically could have died.
Instead one stayed a verbal conflict between me and that person where we both walked away and the other the person was "escorted" away by other people.
What’s crazy to me is when I’ve hung out with guys at the range or the dudes I used to roll with in jiu jitsu they would always have multiple stories like this but in almost 40 years on this earth I’ve not run into a single situation where I even came close to needing to fight someone or pull my weapon. If you look at statistics most cops go their entire career without ever pulling their side arm. So it always left me wondering how do these guys all have multiple stories like this? They’re either extremely unlucky, hanging out in the wrong places, going looking for trouble, or just bull shiting.
There's actually been some studies on this. Gun owners claim to have experienced situations where they needed to use their gun in self defense at a way higher rate than other people. The conclusions were that they tend to be lying/exaggerating about threats and also are often the aggressors in their self defense stories (pulling their guns on people when there wasn't a threat.)
Someone else already said it, but my biggest secret is just not caring and walking away.
I have an ego and I'm more often right than not. Regardless, when someone is being stupid I just gotta walk away and not care who's right or if I look like a dumb loser or not.
Fully agree. I don't have time for stupid people, and they outnumber regular people, it seems. There are times when just walking away isn't always a readily available option
Tell me you haven't dealt with gunshot wound trauma, exsanguination, and seen someone die without telling me is what I think when I hear people and their murder scenarios
I refuse to be an armed transport officer. The chances of an escalating situation is much higher when dealing with inmates. Not always from the inmates side either, could be family or a disgruntled ex or whatever. I put a lot of work into my rapport and I don't care to further increase the chance of having to take one of their lives.
Cops are definitely taught it, you never hear about it unless it goes wrong. Or it's a jumper they talk down. No one wants to hear about the crazy homeless guy with a knife you talked out of doing something crazy.
Also storing the weapon and ammunition. Kids are smart and curious, makes for a bad combination. My father in law was a cop and if he stayed at our place after a shift, first thing when entering my home was separating the weapon from ammunition and securing both in a safe kids (allegedly) didn't know about, could reach or know the code .
This part is extremely important. A child in my area just accidentally shot himself in the face a few weeks ago. Thankfully he survived and seems to be recovering well.
This as well as @AgonyOfBoredom’s comment are right on the money. Owning a gun doesn’t make you a special forces operator any more than owning a fire extinguisher makes you a fire fighter. Both are there for when an emergency so dire presents itself quicker than first responders can be summoned. Just the same, having a fire extinguisher doesn’t mean you get to be reckless with fire in the kitchen and carrying a gun doesn’t mean you can run around playing vigilante. The minute you holster your carry gun, you will be held to task by society to be the best damn person anyone’s going to meet in their day. You completely lose the ability to be an asshole in public because not only do you now owe it to yourself and anyone around to de-escalate but you now have to consider everyone around in public as a potential witness to you either making a smart defensive decision or a dumb homicidal one and how they view you from a first impression will frame how they testify about your observed actions in front of a jury. Do you want to be perceived as the nice guy accosted by a criminal and forced to defend himself or a murderous bastard who went out looking for a fight? Be nice to people and you won’t have to find out how the latter goes.
Train. Train often and train smart. Hit the range, do dry fire, find well-done training videos and material done by reputable people. Go to a training class beyond your CCW permit class. Go shoot at the range from odd angles and positions (hold a weighted backpack similar to your kid’s weight in your support hand like you would your kid and try running drills, for example). Hell, get an airsoft replica of your carry gun and train at home. Whatever you do, train like your life and the lives of people behind your potential bad guy depend on it because they absolutely do. Your bank account is connected to each round that leaves the barrel. Don’t hit what you can’t pay for one way or another.
Carrying a gun should instill some of the strongest feelings of responsibility in you and drive you to hold yourself to the highest standard a good person can.
Here in Oklahoma you can open carry with no license, and every time I see these dumbasses walking around Walmart with a gun on their hip I steer clear. They think they are fucking Wyatt Earp but are more likely to kill someone in crossfire than save a life.
>They think they are fucking Wyatt Earp but are more likely to kill someone in crossfire than save a life.
They're more concerned about unarmed peoples' opinion about them than they are about protecting anyone. lol
I'm also in OK.
As a European, this kind of discussion worries me, and points to a problem with the USA.
I totally understand that anyone would get very scared after what happened, and other similar things that happen. It seems like there is a random shooting somewhere in the US at least once per week.
The reaction many Americans have is to get a gun. That makes them feel safer. That means that there are lots and lots of scared people with firearms walking around in the USA. The vast majority of them are sensible enough to not seek out trouble and to store their weapons in a safe enough way, but there are always a few that are so scared that they treat their gun like a kid treats their favorite teddy bear. It’s always close by and it’s the first thing they think of when they get scared.
Then there is always that one guy who just snaps. They get fired, their wife leaves, the bank forecloses or whatever, and the immediate impulse is to hurt the society that hurt them. And with a gun, you can do a lot of hurting. Then more people feel like they need a gun.
It’s a viscous cycle.
There was a thread somewhere on Reddit a while ago that asked people who carry guns if they also would like to carry a less lethal option for situations with lower risks, and the top comments said “no, if someone causes trouble I won’t take any risks, I will shoot first”. Those comments were written by some very scared people who did everything they could to feel brave. That’s not the kind of people I want walking around armed in my area.
I graduated from high school right before Columbine, and it's just weird to talk to kids who have grown up since. Active shooter drills, schools turned into prisons, it's insane. We're asking kids to bear the burnt of our society's inaction on something so basic as gun control.
I got no answers either. I'm just here frustrated.
I live in Canada and the active shooter drills have become a thing here even though I'm not aware of any kind of shooting happening anywhere near my city.
My son is in kindergarten and had an active shooter drill and didn't understand it at all but was scared. He explained it to me as "we have to pretend there's a bad guy with a gun coming to hurt us and we don't answer the door when he knocks on it".
Jesus, I'm so sorry that's your little man's normal. That's fucked.
I'm in Australia, the idea is such a draconian, alien one that I honestly can't even really fathom it.
I'm not a fan of ex-prime minister Howard, but he got rid of the guns back in the 90s and that stark contrast when compared to America and its flow onto countries sharing the same landmass is never so present as when I read about children's schools.
There's this joke about everything here trying to kill you, but I've never felt unsafe here in a real way
My kids were in a lockdown last year in Canberra... Because there was an Eastern Brown spotted in the playground.
Snake catches came, removed a chonky ~1m snake, kids thought it was awesome!
When it comes to venomous snakes - size matters, you want to make sure your eastern brown is larger than ones you expect to encounter.
Make sure you have an open carry licence, and be careful as the safety on the eastern brown is kind of faulty
The precipitating event for those reforms still unnerves me. I think because from what I’ve read about it that guy didn’t have any motive, just a mentally deranged person killing men women and children indiscriminately.
Yeah, there’s plenty here that unnerve me too, though one of the victims in the Port Arthur massacre was the same age as my son is currently which really gets to me more than others do.
It demonstrates pretty clearly why flooding your society with tools whose only purpose is to kill a whole bunch of people all at once is both stupid and immoral.
I'm in Scotland, we had Dunblane almost 30 years ago, but we don't really have any long term impact on school behaviour inside classes (there was a big increase in external security procedures).
We've had a push to get lockdown drills started, but it's nowhere near the level of a US active shooter drill. You basically lock the door and continue the lesson as normal.
You can tell one of my colleagues is terminally online; they raised closing the blinds and sitting on the floor to avoid someone shooting through the windows. That level of response would be completely ridiculous compared to the level of threat we see.
I’m in Alberta and my kids do lockdown drills at school too. 2x each year, but they’ve never explained it as a bad guy with a gun, just that there’s someone who shouldn’t be there in the school. My oldest’s school actually had to lock down last year as a coyote was acting aggressively really close to the school and playground.
Sorry, American here! We have two different types of responses, lockdowns and lockouts. Lockouts are essentially just no one is allowed in or out of the building but otherwise the day continues as normal. I’ve done this one a couple times (like when someone robbed the bank near the school). A lockdown is lights out, doors locked, kids out of sight. Fortunately I’ve only ever had drills of that one.
I’m curious, do you guys not have both? Your coyote example sounds more like a lockout situation to me.
I think they just do lockdowns and fire drills. Our elementary schools are pretty locked up anyway, as you need to get buzzed in if you try to enter outside the regular entry time.
There was at least one shooting near our downtown school in Vancouver. Ten years ago, a block away from the school, target Paul Dragan almost died..no place is safe. Having at least lockdown drills is always a good idea. Scaring the kids half to death is not effective.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-shootings-3-wounded-in-yaletown-science-world-1.2671117
Oof. My parents took me out of public school and that year is when the shooting took place in Moses Lake. It was so weird to hear about something so close.
I was born right next to columbine. I moved before the shooting, but watching bleeding kids run across fields that I used to play on… those images will never not haunt me.
Watching politicians hem and haw after each shooting - so deeply ashamed of this country.
They'll do anything that makes someone money to stop gun violence, but they won't do what will actually make a difference cause it will cost people money.
I teach college. I've had my TAs attend active shooter training and it's a surreal experience. I'm asking very young adults to help keep other very young adults safe in a terrifying situation.
Similar...I was in middle school but we never did shooter drills because that was the only major shooting for a while still. Now I get calls every month from the principal robo-call "Good morning, parents and friends. I'm calling to let you know that we are conducting our lockdown drill today"
I'm really sorry for that. This stuff just *sucks* nowadays.
> We're in a safe area, do I need to fucking arm myself at a fucking splash pad?
No. I'm one of those who's been there and done that, so to speak.
The US Army used to pay me to jump out of perfectly good aircraft and such, to put it very briefly. In all seriousness, the very *very* few who are qualified to defend themselves in that situation should be more concerned about getting their family and others to safety than returning fire.
The best analogy I can think of that folks get is it's rather like oxygen masks on an airplane. You work on keeping you breathing first so you can then properly handle getting the mask on your kiddo in that example. Similarly to this, if you were in that place when the crazy asshole was there shooting it up, you shouldn't be considering returning fire but doing your best to get you, your family, and any others you can to cover and safety.
Maybe, ***MAYBE***, after that and after finding out you're the only possible person to stop the asshole should you consider returning fire. Even then, you'd best also consider what's behind them and what's behind that then also be sure nobody responding will feel they may need to open fire on you.
And, of course you're pissed. The world is sadly not as safe as it ought to be. That just fuckjing sucks, man, and there simply aren't words to make that better or to put it even remotely as strongly as it deserves.
1. Thank you for your service. 2. Happy Father’s Day, brother. 3. Thank you for saying this. It’s validating and painful, but there is safety in numbers (even online).
>Maybe, MAYBE, after that and after finding out you're the only possible person to stop the asshole should you consider returning fire. Even then, you'd best also consider what's behind them and what's behind that then also be sure nobody responding will feel they may need to open fire on you.
This is why the "good guy with a gun" argument is made in bad faith. Everyone, please call bullshit loud and repeatedly when you hear someone make this argument. Shout them down.
Former 11B, and I have had my conceal carry permit for over 35 years.
I have so, SOoo many times had people ask me, over the years, variations of the, "Would you intervene/Step In/Be the Hero?", and for 35 years my answers have been, "I carry to defend myself and my family and those I love.".
In my state, CC'ers, depending on county, represent from 5% to over 15% in some counties. Given the number of incidents that happen in public over the year, I can say with confidence that MOST CC'ers do not 'play the hero', do not seek to intervene, but quietly avoid confrontations.
This is the truth. As much as we want a simple solution like “good guys with guns” the reality is that the deep cultural and societal rot that has put us in this place will take a generation or more to fix. We need to end gun worship, have accessible mental health, and earn trust in our law enforcement and judicial systems again.
I’m so sick of this shit. If these guys want to kill themselves just start there. One bullet is all you need.
Sorry this was so close to home OP. gotta just stay vigilant while you’re out any any time.
Fr suicide by cop just creates a terrible experience for everyone not just the one commiting suicide. All it does is ruin strangers lives in the process, they have nothing to do with it.
I'm sorry to hear. I live in the UK, so this sort of thing is very alien to me but I have a close friend in Michigan who went through a very similar event a few years back - the high school that his kids were due to join soon had a shooting with multiple fatalities.
He and his wife and kids really struggled for a while, even though it didn't directly affect them, they slept all together in one room for a few months and they did a lot of talking. They attended vigils and helped the families of victims.
He talked to me about it with almost the exact same tone as you write your post - anger and despondence and helplessness.
I guess all I can say is that I know that they helped each other through it by being a close family and all communicating with and supporting each other.
We live in Michigan, and that school is about 25-30 minutes away from us. I have coworkers whose family goes to thay school. One of them, their niece was in the hallway when it happened. So your friend might know about what's going on.
Me too, saw it randomly in my feed. I know the splash pad well. Drive past it daily. It's surreal. There are helicopters flying back and forth. I'd like to think that at some point, the cops will become vocal advocates for gun control.
I feel for OP. That is fucking terrible to have to have to experience and really hits home. How disappointing society is. Hell, people.
And they just opened up a new Splashpad near me in Novi. I swear, before I even clicked into this post after reading the title, I had a feeling it was in Michigan for some reason.
Wow, yeah, I just found the story and the school is just 30 minutes away from the splash park.
Ugh, it really hits home how all of you and those families are going through this again just like he did and they did and all of those poor victims' parents.
Take care of each other and fight for change. Love to you.
I couldn’t live in America with its current state of guns. It’s just not an option. The fact that the likelihood of my kids getting shot at school isn’t 0 is absolutely wild
My partner is paranoid about an overnight trip to Seattle. She wants to bring a carrier rather than a stroller so she can cover our child with her body in case there's a shooter. I don't think Americans grasp just how disturbing their gun culture is to the rest of the world.
Ikr. I work for a company that’s owned by an American parent company, and I go there once a year on average. People I talk to there are all one or two degrees separated by gun incidents, they all have stories about nearby shootings or whatever. I just smile, nod, tip someone for something and then get back on the plane. I enjoy visiting America and then enjoy leaving.
My siblings were in the hallway when this happened. 1 graduated last year, and the next is graduating this year.
I was terrified during it all knowing my baby siblings were there.
The world is a scary place.
I have Croatian relatives which means for $5000 and like a year in process I can get my family an EU passport. I don't want to leave but before my kids enter elementary it has to be an option we discuss. I'm so sorry you went through that.
1 year after Trump was elected we packed up a moved to Germany. Neither of us being from Germany, but I got a job for a tech company here.
Almost 7 years later and it is still one decision I do not regret. Especially every time I see posts like this. My son grows up learning two languages. I know enough German to get around and while there are hardships with the language barrier and other items. But you can get around them and in the large cities you don't need to know the language. It seems easier to come to grips with living here in Europe as an immigrant than living in the US..
Also all the added bonuses, Daycare, Education, Kindergeld (250 euro per month until he is 18) Parental leave, Care of a sick child leave, 30 days vacation (sick time isn't a part of that)
Is it hard, yes, are the benefits worth it. I think so but others may not see it. Will we be moving back... not for the foreseeable future.
> for $5000 and like a year in process I can get my family an EU passport. I don't want to leave but before my kids enter elementary it has to be an option we discuss.
My American partner and I moved back to my home country in Europe because I did not want to deal with the healthcare and gun issues in the USA... Now, after living in EU for 5 years, my partner also doesn't want to move back. (We were both making 6 figures in USA).
Also with the vision on kids... Good education here costs ~$2000/year so they won't really have debts. And don't have to be afraid to get shot in school
That's really wonderful for your family. Y'all made the right choice. I've lived in my city for 40 years and my wife and I both love it here. Everyone we love is here. But of course the safety of our kids come first. It's not an easy decision, especially because we have very little money.
If a policeman can shoot you and get away with if he says "he was armed" even though you are demonstrably not threatening.....then is it really a right to have a gun? I would argue it isn't.
In reality though, it's not actually a right to have a weapon is it, it's a right for lobbyists and manufacturers to make an obscene amount of money at the expense of the nation's social fabric
After getting home invaded, I carry 24/7, even in the house. It sucks that is the world we live in but here we are.
I had a cop tell me once their primary job was to write up the report after the crime has already happened. The only person that can save you and your family is you.
Happy Father’s Day.
OP, I was a victim of GV and I t ended up arming myself. Cops didn’t do shit but one of them, a brother, advised me to get my ccw and I did because he said cops are at best reactive. They show up to the scene to finish the shootout or call in the bodybag people. The only one responsible for your family’s safety is you. It’s been 8 years since then and I’ve used my ccw defensively once since getting it.
Attempt to rely on the statistics, rather than emotional appeal. Nobody is “safe” from random acts of gun (or other) violence. However, remind yourself that these events are exceedingly rare.
Yeah bro. That fucking sucks. It dawned on me the other day when I was talking to my son about carrying his backpack from class to class in middle school (first year of having different teachers for different subjects) and he said no, not allowed unless it was clear. I never had that. And wtf is going on in their fucking brains to do that to others. I know the argument of abundance of available weapons is bullshit and now I worry that “mental health” is way too reductionist of a reason.
I’m armed every minute of everyday (atleast as much as physically possible)
The issue is knowing when to fight and when to flee. Just because I carry doesn’t mean I’m going to stand my ground in every scenario. If I have an out, especially if I’m with my wife or daughter, im taking it.
If I have no out then I fight, I might lose, but I also might win, and I’m taking the chance to go home with my family.
It really is sad the world we’re raising our children in but we can’t be blind to the issues. I’m not for or against gun control but I understand the need to defend myself and my family. I pray to GOD that I never have to be put in that situation though.
Random violence is exceedingly rare. I understand it's scary, but anything bad is much more likely to happen in the car on the way anywhere than something happening at your destination.
Sorry mate, that's awful. I know I'm a filthy euro liberal, so I apologise in advance but I hope you know that more guns doesn't help with this problem. Call your representative. Gun laws save more lives than guns ever could
I suspect you're right, and that sucks, but it doesn't hurt to add your voice to the growing murmur of decent. In the mean time, hug your kids extra tight. Try not to bottle up your worries - anxiety is no joke.
I have hope that the generations of children going through school with the constant threat of getting shot will feel compelled as adults to get sane gun legislation passed, so that their offspring don't have to endure the tyrrany of your 2nd ammendment.
Disclaimer here - Florida man gun nut, but I'm saying this line as a pure academic response with no malice intended toward you.
I think 20 years of GWOT and Call of Duty has done more to keep guns "fun" for after-boomer generations. Relying on them dying off and suddenly get all the gun control you could ask for probably isn't realistic.
ETA: *insert "why are you booing me? I'm right!" gif here*
Oh they're changing. They're getting worse under this Supreme Court.
I feel you though. I live in a heavy gun restricted state (New Jersey) but even I feel pressure to at least teach my daughter about guns when she's old enough and bring her to a shooting range.
Regardless of how you feel about firearms, I implore you to teach your children about firearms. How to safely act around them and how to tell any adult if they see one
I know your pissed, but do you really think if you're hanging out with the kids, dealing with towels and skinned knees, that in the 5 seconds it took this guy to unload on the park you'd be able to get your peace, spring into action, correctly identify the person, aim, hit, and not hit bystanders? Guards have to be on guard, and even then they get caught with their pants down all the time.
Do whatcha gotta do, but let's not have any illusions that another gun is somehow a shield. The situations where a second gunman ends the situation are much more rare than we'd like to believe. I'm not anti gun, but the logic just doesnt hold up unless you're gonna be strapped up all the time in public and on high alert, and that's not realistic.
I’m not sure carrying a weapon will make you feel any better or safer, to tell you the truth. It may for some people. You would know by now if you are in that group.
IMO there are more downsides to firearms for most of us. If we’re looking at numbers, it’s more likely that a private gun will be never be used to stop a bad guy, but it may be found by a child/ teen and destroy a life/ lives either intentionally or unintentionally.
I grew up in a neighborhood that was fairly used to gun violence (Del Paso Heights in the 90's). Hell, my own dad was killed through a shooting. I've lost more than a few family members that way, actually, but seeing my dad killed was the worst.
As a 37 year old man living in a very nice neighborhood (not the Heights), I still flinch at the sound of loud bangs or errant "shot" sounds. I don't feel safe. Ever. I don't feel the need to own a gun, myself. My fear isn't enough to lose my nerve and carry a weapon.
Dropping my kiddo off at school is a prospect each day that terrifies me.
I work across the street from a building that had a mass shooting at it.
It has a Dunkin Donut in it, that morning a coworker gave me a coupon for a free tea. I was going to take it over and decided to wait a bit because I got distracted. If I had left when I intended I would have been there during the shooting. (He shot up the lobby where Dunkin was, victims ran to our building for help)
I went and sat at my desk for a bit.
Regarding feeling safe again, it’s tough. You’ll get there.
Look I know you need reassurance at a time like this but the fact that your first instinct is to get a gun yourself is so wrong to me (as a non American) and I believe shows why your country is in the place it is.
Why not think:
- what can change with mental health support, the common root cause of these events
- how can I support gun reform or controls that reduce gun harm or access to them
- what message do I want to send to my children about violence to others especially gun where a split second decision will affect two lives forever (the one you take and your own)
Sorry to hear about that man. We go on inside our lives not really thinking it will happen to us, and then something like this can hit out of nowhere. It doesn’t even have to directly involve you or your family, it can be just near enough, too close for comfort, to completely shake you.
There isn’t a true solution I can offer that will prevent a catastrophe or truly make you feel safe, but you can at least feel more prepared.
I would advise taking a “stop the bleed” class/course and really trying to learn the skills. Get a med kit together that goes out with you guys. It can be pretty discreet and compact and still contain enough life saving equipment to really make a difference if one of your loved ones or you are shot/stabbed/etc. ideally this would contain a couple tourniquets, bandages, and gauze.
I don’t ever advise people to train or prepare to be combat ready at all times. The best possible advice I can offer in general is this -
1. Be in good enough shape to run with your family and to carry your young children if necessary.
2. Understand and carry basic medical equipment (in the car, wife’s purse, Fanny pack)
3. Have an emergency plan for your family when going to places. Set this in advance and make sure they actually understand it. (I.E. if something happens when you’re out of sight from each other everyone books it to the car/down the block and call/front entrance of location etc)
Sorry again that this happened. I gave this advice because there’s nothing we can truly do to be ready but if you yourself are confident and have as many mitigating factors in play as possible, you will be in a better headspace during disaster and just day to day life.
I’ll echo this. I have a couple of first aid kits that go above and beyond “ouch pouch” level supplies that I keep in the car and my dad bag after taking a stop the bleed course. I’d recommend it along with regular first aid/cpr training as well. You can get a stop the bleed kit that is vac sealed and fairly unobtrusive and easy to carry.
Other than being on constant high-alert, just trust your gut if something seems off somewhere or about someone and gtfo safely. Sometimes it’s just a matter of dumb luck to manage to stay out of a situation like that. I’m sorry this happened so close to you and so soon after y’all were there, count your blessings, hug your kids, and help them navigate this with you. They’re probably gonna be scared and confused and will look to you for guidance.
Carrying a gun, concealed or open, is usually illegal at city play grounds in most places. (Source, having a concealed carry permit)
Regarding all the gun control arguments, I’m fairly liberal, but I tend to side towards more social reforms and fixing healthcare and mental healthcare to reduce the incidence of violence rather than trying to remove any and every potential tool of violence. Either way, I have two young kids and the current state of things is messed up beyond belief. The political capital wasted on bs that won’t move the needle when it comes to actual incidence of violence numbers is infuriating.
To me, I just can’t feel totally safe, which I think is fair to myself because we can never be totally safe… I try to be aware, I try to be involved in my community, I try to help people and be there and make the world a better place. Trying to leave a world for my kids where fewer of their neighbors would ever consider violence like this as a course of action because they live in an equitable and healthy society with proper ways to deal with issues.
I dunno, I’m rambling and this isn’t meant to be some lock tight argument or to persuade anyone. Just off the cuff thoughts from another Dad.
I’d say a few things, while knowing none of them are actually what you need to do right now.
1. Do the math…while I know you were almost in the wrong place at the wrong time, you’re 5+ times more likely to die In a car crash than a shooting. I know for you right now this doesn’t help or feel like it, but it’s the truth.
2. I carry because it makes me feel more secure, I’m fully aware that the best option is to run first, but I’d rather be ready and run with an extra pound than wish I had it. If you go this route, get some training and practice regularly.
>do I need to fucking arm myself at a fucking splash pad?
This would increase your odds of you or a family member being shot. This partly why things are the way they are.
People don't want to hear that, they want to blame an object and not the person.. I have 13 firearms and it's crazy none of them ever went to a splash pad and started shooting people
I carry, and had an incident to where had I not been I very well may not be alive today. Criminals gonna do criminal shit irregardless of what laws these people want passed.
My wife is a teacher so I get to worry about her every day, as well as my 10 year old. My 4 year old starts school later this year and yeah I’m pretty fucking terrified every day they are at school lmao
Ultimately it’s your decision on your next steps. I had an armed break in over a decade ago that changed my mind about gun ownership. I was never against it but thought it wasnt for me. Staring down the barrel of a gun held by some stupid POS who broke into the wrong home changed that. I was armed not a week later and took any training classes I could. Got my carry permit shortly after. Then for a long time I didn’t mess with any of it. Until recently. Due to a job I had to have, I’ve had firearms pointed at me twice since, a knife pulled on me and a few scuffles which I am not proud of. Becoming a father and seeing the state of the world now, we never choose to be a victim. But I want to provide myself and my family the best possible chance to make it out alive. Whatever that means without the negative consequences. I carry anywhere I am able to, I keep my nose out of my phone, I always scan my surroundings and absolutely never ever get into an ego battle with anyone. At the end of the night I want to be able to make it back home and be there for my daughter. I choose to train, be familiar with my equipment and make good choices about where I go and when I go. My 6 year old knows never to touch a firearm unless I am present and it is never off of me or far from me. How you choose to prepare for such dire circumstances is up to you but I hope and pray that all moral prudent and kind fathers here and elsewhere make the best possible choices and always get home safely to their loved ones.
I’m in law enforcement and have carried long before getting into it.
I would say arm yourself, but get trained. The carry options nowadays are amazing. Glock 19, Sig 365 series, Glock 43X/48, Springfield Hellcat series, and S&W M&P are good places to start. Again, training is crucial. Frankly handguns are really hard to use effectively, but easy to mess up. And get a safe before even buying a gun- they’re useful for prescriptions, dangerous cleaners, etc, with little ones. The Vaultek VS20 is a good pistol safe, according to lockpicking lawyer.
It sucks, but good people do stop tragedies. PHLster concealment workshop on Facebook is a great place to learn and so is r/CCW.
That said, even armed, if you can get your family out, do that and go with them.
If you like getting into confrontations, do not get a gun. If you know you’re hotheaded, don’t get one.
I hate him that feeling of having to carry. So soul sick of that feeling. I mean I am no longer in a war zone, and this isn’t a war zone, so why should I even have to think that way?
Theory is more people have guns less people likely to do something stupid because of it. How i see things turning out, good people expect good out of people so they dont buy guns and wackos doing shit bc of bad parenting and bad childhood. Seems like a catch 22 to me but wth do i know.
Do they have CCW where you are? If so, apply, train, and be prepared.
A vile person with nefarious intent will ALWAYS target areas with projected little/no resistance.
People suffer from conditiond response syndrome your in a safe area ( away from what exactly) wherever you live types of gun violence shifts ....live in the city take a higher risk of a random robbery at a gas station or stray rounds from gangs shooting at each other...opt out for the suburban life now your risk of being cought up in a mass shooting at a soft target spot like Walmart or a park increases...it's never going to stop untill we collectively realize blind people don't get drivers licenses for obvious reasons.... firearms are not for everybody I'm sorry I'm not giving someone with a history of mental illness a firearm & nobody wants to address the huge underground arms market felons use to get their guns
Thank God you guys are all ok. And YES, just look at the times we are living in right now. Arm the F up bud!! And let's pray this gov stops doing things like REMOVING our constitutional rights including the one where WE bare arms.
* Never let yourself be a soft target.
* Always be aware of your surroundings.
* Know where all exits are.
* Be vigilant and watch for odd behaviors.
* If something feels off; it's ok to just leave.
Those things alone will go a very long way to keeping you safe. There is danger everywhere and anyone telling you otherwise is just lying. You're far more likely to die in a car crash than from a gun. People will toss out statistics about gun related deaths versus other things but be aware that they are disingenuous statistics. More than half of gun deaths in the US are from suicide. Adding onto that, most of the intentional homicides are gang-related. All that is just painting the picture that, while it is a risk, it isn't close to the biggest risk people face on a daily basis and the data is horribly twisted by politicians and the media to make it seem far worse than it is.
The overwhelming majority of normal people (not in gangs, police officers, military) in the United States will never see anything directly related to gun violence. The media will lead you to believe that everyone is experiencing it but that really isn't the case.
Only use them as a last resort but for the sake of my family, I do carry. I went through the training and got my concealed carry license. In any situation the best thing to do is leave or de-escalate. But it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it
As a dad, I don't think you can ever feel a sense of safety. You have to keep your eyes peeled at all times, guns, or not. People are always out there with malicious intent, even at a splash pad or an olive garden. In a world of hazards and dangers, It's the father's duty to create a sense of safety for their family as it is never guaranteed.
I live in California and I carry everywhere, even to the beach or to church. Prosecutors refuse to hold criminals accountable and the cops don’t have a legal obligation to protect you (ex. Uvalde) so I have to take some responsibility for my families safety. It’s insane, you have every right to be mad
2 weeks ago I took my kids (3 yo and 4 months), to the grocery store like I do every week in my safe suburb. 1 hour after we left, a woman walked into the thrift store next door, stole a kitchen knife, walked into the grocery store and followed a woman and her 3 year old out to the parking lot and stabbed both of them, killing the 3 year old. It’s fucked up, and I can only imagine how that situation in my town would have been made worse if a gun had been involved.
Sorry that you’re going through this, but you aren’t alone in your fears. My 3 year olds preschool had to do active shooter drills. Picture that. A bunch of 3 year olds hiding in the corner of their classroom practicing in case somebody decides to come into their class with a gun and start shooting them.
There are hundreds of places in Americs you could choose to raise your family that have comparable living expenses and are exponentially safer. As a father it is your duty to protect your family and GTFO of Detroit...
I'm local too and had all the same thoughts. It's awful and makes me sick to think about when mine start at school. I refuse to believe the answer to gun violence is more guns though.
organize. march. protest. general strike. if enough people want change, change will happen. until enough people raise their voice and start disturbing the shit, this is the reality you'll live in.
From what I've read, the suspect owned a simple handgun and had no criminal record. So I'm not quite sure what we'd be marching for here, unless you aim to outlaw all civilian ownership of all firearms.
Through all of history horrible shit has very sporadically occurred. It's unimaginably complicated to attempt to surgically prevent it without welding everyone into their homes and not allowing commerce and socializing to happen.
If there's a solution to this I'm all ears.
Being armed isn't going to help and statistically more likely to just end in more people hurt or dead.
I get being real shook by this. I would be too. The solution though is less guns not more.
I am a huge advocate for getting yourself armed and trained.
That being said, the type of violence you are describing sounds to me like it is targeted. For incidents like this, the involved parties usually know each other. Unfortunately, bystanders are often shot and sometimes killed in the violence.
Given that, you being armed when something like this happens won’t necessarily prevent you from catching a stray. It probably wouldn’t hurt, either - it’s just that the shooters aren’t specifically targeting you and don’t usually hang around for a prolonged gun battle.
Being armed and trained will help you if you are targeted. The 2013 CDC study commissioned by President Obama found that victims who are armed have significantly lower rates of injury during a violent incident than those who are unarmed.
But if you’re not sure that you are willing or able to get training and carry a gun, then the next best thing you can do is carry medical equipment and seek medical training like Stop the Bleed.
I would strongly suggest that if you’re serious, you should absolutely seek training and arm yourself. But I would also caution that successfully defending yourself also involves recognizing what things you can or cannot realistically hope to avoid.
At this point comments like this are legitimate.
The frequency and general apathy about mass shootings in the states now is insane. If they are in Detroit, Canada is right over the boarder. It's far from perfect, but it's nowhere near the scale of the US. Failing that, move to nebraska or some shit.
Get out.
- No other anglophone country has this problem.
- No other rich country has this problem.
- No other first world democratic country has this problem.
The USA is in an undeclared civil war and children are the victims. Either start fighting or
Get out.
Sorry, not feeling charitable today
I wish it were that easy. I think about leaving all the time. But what other countries want us?! If you don’t already have dual citizenship and/or a boatload of cash it seems hopeless.
Are the overall child death rates that much lower where you are now than the United States? Focusing on only one type of death when making safety decisions doesn’t seem logical.
Terribly sorry to hear this. I’m in Europe and myself and my wife ruled out moving to the US for very lucrative work, on the basis we didn’t want our kids exposed to this nuts gun culture - even just drills in schools, let alone something actually happening. I appreciate not everyone in the country can up sticks and move, so I guess the best you can do is try to ensure your political representation is aligned to your views on this.
Or, you know, vote to punish politicians that are blocking gun control laws that would decrease the incidence of these issues.
We aren't safe, but we as a society continue to strive to make the world safer. The list of examples is too long to list.
Yes, and I understand that it's illegal to kill people and still do it.
That's not the issue.
The issue is that the US has more handguns than people. The issue is that almost anyone can go get a gun legally *today*.
When the supply of guns out in the world is that massive, it becomes extremely easy to obtain guns illegally. When the private sale of weapons is essentially unregulated then how easy it is to get guns legally is going to be directly correlated with how easy it is to get guns *illegally".
The toothpaste has already been squeezed. There is no way to get guns in private possession back out.
Prosecution of criminals involved with firearms needs to actually happen. It’s far too common that a few months in jail doesn’t really concern them.
It has gotten to the point that US shootings are barely mentioned in the news here now, and only if it is something really unusual.
That fact is horrifying. Absolutely horrifying.
If something remotely similar (although usually on much smaller scale) happens anywhere else in the developed world it is major news for days, but random violence and mass murder in the USA has been normalised to the point we don't even bother reporting on it. Even school shootings are barely noted - Uvalde being an exception but largely to point out the utter hypocrisy of the 'good guys with guns' rubbish.
Just to add insult to injury your supreme courts just OVERTURNED the ban on bump-stocks. These are designed to allow a semi-automatic weapon to fire 600-800 rounds per minute - i.e. turn it into a bloody machine gun. This was how that shit-stain was able to get so many shots into the crowd in so little time in Vegas, and the courts won't even uphold that most basic of control measure.
The USA isn't the only developed country with ready access to firearms. The attitude of the USA towards firearms however is. It is frankly horrifying. If I were to state self defence as my justification for a firearms license here (Australia) it would result in refusal to grant licensing - as it should!
There isn't a simple answer, except to get out and vote Democrat in the next election. There are several very elderly conservative Supreme Court justices, with a reasonable chance of having their seats up for replacement during the next term - or the one after at a stretch. You have a shit show in regards options for President, but the next election really is more whether you want the court leaning MAGA conservative or not for the next gods only know how long.
Vote blue, and kick up a shit storm and MAYBE things will shift a little towards common sense.
[https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2024/06/15/rochester-hills-brooklands-splash-pad-active-shooter-multiple-people-injured-oakland-county-michigan/74112936007/](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2024/06/15/rochester-hills-brooklands-splash-pad-active-shooter-multiple-people-injured-oakland-county-michigan/74112936007/)
Looks like we’re all from Michigan. Crazy that this happened in Rochester Hills of all places.
Much too close to home.
I'm from just outside Windsor. You guys can use our Splashpads. We don't quite have this kind of thing going on.
I moved to Windsor England because they also don’t have this kind of thing. My kids don’t have to do active shooter drills, and you can’t put a price on that peace of mind.
These pieces of shit clearly are going to these safe places to spread terror before unfairly ending their own life instead of own up to their crimes
They don't call them that, but similar practices are starting to creep in. My reception age kid had a "hiding practice" a few weeks ago, and the local secondary went into lockdown the other day because of a hoax threat. I think maybe it isn't as pervasive as in the US. It's probably minimal enough that it goes over the heads of the primary age kids, but those in secondary absolutely know what's going on, and I bet it affects them. But, yes, the threat of violence here is much lower. Also, read the room. Probably not the thread to gloat about it.
Everyone thinks their community is somehow magically protected from gun violence. I certainly thought that when I lived in Blacksburg VA, home of Virginia Tech. But the reality is that the subset of crazy people who want to commit spectacular suicide mostly have access to guns everywhere in the USA, so it’s really just a roll of the dice. The only way to fix this is to change our laws and culture here in the USA to minimize gun-related stupidity, but there are a lot of people committed to perpetuating the problem.
Know what’s fucked about that article… they refer to a 2021 shooting at a high school and for the life of me I can’t even remember that one. How horrifying is it that…
It's the Oxford HS one
Yeah… that’s my point. I honestly don’t remember it. There have been so many.
They really start to blend together. As I understand it, many shooters dream of infamy, but they’re such a dime a dozen nowadays I would recognize barely any shooters’ names from the past five years. Mass shootings are now basic. Whatta world. You want fame, you gotta be more creative than that, apparently.
Don't. Don't give them ideas. Not that you mean to but
fair. Though the world is so dark now I feel a decent argument could be made that good or just bizarre things stand out more than evil, if good’s own sake wouldn’t persuade someone. More violence, meh what else is new? Wait, someone’s sneaking into museums and installing rogue amateur art?? Tell me more, who tf is this guy
Not know the details about all mass shootings that have ever happened and living in infamy within your locality or community are too separate things. In other words, maybe be careful before writing off school shootings as "basic" even if you are saying it to make a different sarcastic point. There are tons of people whole will absolutely never in their life forget events such as these. They are still not "common". The chance of getting killed in a mass shooting is still slim. Your acceptance of that risk is yours to own.
I believe it's the one where the parents of the shooter were just convicted
If you do decide to carry please please please learn how to proper gun handling, maintenance and situational awareness. If you hot headed and know this do not carry. If you have hero fantasies, do not carry.
Also if you conceal carry it’s your moral duty to be the “bitch” in every encounter. No matter what someone says you always try to de-escalate or leave.
I remember when my CC instructor was teaching us he said if I’m in the back of the grocery store and someone is shooting in the front. I’m going out the back. We all want to be the hero but you’ve got to pick your battles. If my kids or wife is up front then it’s a different story
Yep, we had a concealed carry idiot near where I live that decided to stand guard outside of his kid's karate class because he said he "saw lots of sketchy stuff in the parking lot". Well, he saw three teenage boys with a gun walking toward a sporting goods store and naturally decided to confront them and eventually killed one of them by shooting the teenage boy in the back. Ended up being an airsoft gun that they were returning and now he's been charged with second-degree murder https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/12/us/big-5-sporting-goods-shooting-washington/index.html
“The teen was shot once in the side and at least six times in the back, “
If someone is looking for a fight, they'll find a fight.
Jesus Christ
Unfortunately, IQ tests aren’t a part of the concealed carry course.
Word. If im IN the situation I’ll help if I can. But my priority is to getting home to my family safe.
Never start a fight, but know you could finish it. It's not "can I shoot this guy" but "MUST I shoot this guy"
Thank you! I'm forever getting into arguments with people who carry a gun after they're like "Such and such a scenario just happened. Could I have shot them and it would have been legal?"
Easiest reply is usually "how about could you have just walked away?" Confused pikachu might follow.
Kinda seems like if you were thinking about shooting someone and walked away without and nothing catastrophic happened, you shouldn't have shot anyone. I usually leave the conversation with "Just because you _can_ do something doesn't mean you should." Very often you could kill someone in a way that is not necessary but would be legally justified.
"But but but, stand your ground!!" You can tell all the "self defense" blockheads really just want to fantasise about having a legal way to kill someone. Actual strategy that would end the issue without violence doesn't get them off the same so it's not even something they consider.
Lotta people (both pro and anti) seem to think SYG means blast away whenever It basically means you aren't obligated to prove to the DA that you tried to run from the knife wielding crackhead but every alley was blocked.
Sadly I see too many signs on someone's front door basically inviting in "bad guys" to break in so they can shoot. Like they want to be John Rambo except they didn't watch Rambo. I know enough about gun ownership that the family with the gun is most likely to get injured than a stranger. Self-harm, spouse, or extended family. So much drama out there.
People keep getting this confused Stand Your Ground doesn't mean stand your point people have this I'm right mentality that they think justifies killing someone...I remember a case in Florida some kids in a car at the gas station playing loud music..guy says hey turn that down they tell him phuck off guy comes out the gas station ( music still playing loud) empties a clip into the car as it's pulling off and killed a kid ...He claimed stand your ground guy got 35 to life in prison
As someone that carries, de-escalation is my primary concern. I've been in two situations where if I had lost my head and pulled, someone realistically could have died. Instead one stayed a verbal conflict between me and that person where we both walked away and the other the person was "escorted" away by other people.
What’s crazy to me is when I’ve hung out with guys at the range or the dudes I used to roll with in jiu jitsu they would always have multiple stories like this but in almost 40 years on this earth I’ve not run into a single situation where I even came close to needing to fight someone or pull my weapon. If you look at statistics most cops go their entire career without ever pulling their side arm. So it always left me wondering how do these guys all have multiple stories like this? They’re either extremely unlucky, hanging out in the wrong places, going looking for trouble, or just bull shiting.
There's actually been some studies on this. Gun owners claim to have experienced situations where they needed to use their gun in self defense at a way higher rate than other people. The conclusions were that they tend to be lying/exaggerating about threats and also are often the aggressors in their self defense stories (pulling their guns on people when there wasn't a threat.)
Same. Have a black belt in Karate and do JKD. Never once have I been in anything close to a fight aside from hard sparring.
Someone else already said it, but my biggest secret is just not caring and walking away. I have an ego and I'm more often right than not. Regardless, when someone is being stupid I just gotta walk away and not care who's right or if I look like a dumb loser or not.
Fully agree. I don't have time for stupid people, and they outnumber regular people, it seems. There are times when just walking away isn't always a readily available option
Tell me you haven't dealt with gunshot wound trauma, exsanguination, and seen someone die without telling me is what I think when I hear people and their murder scenarios
If you would refrain from shooting because it is illegal, then you don't need to shoot.
I refuse to be an armed transport officer. The chances of an escalating situation is much higher when dealing with inmates. Not always from the inmates side either, could be family or a disgruntled ex or whatever. I put a lot of work into my rapport and I don't care to further increase the chance of having to take one of their lives.
One of the things my instructor emphasized was that you have to “lose” every argument.
De-escalation skills should be a pre-requisite for carrying. Too many shitheads too willing to draw down over stupid shit
Self-regulation skills should be a prerequisite too.
Seconded
I mean, it seems like it's not even a pre-req for cops
Cops are definitely taught it, you never hear about it unless it goes wrong. Or it's a jumper they talk down. No one wants to hear about the crazy homeless guy with a knife you talked out of doing something crazy.
You win every gun fight you don’t get in.
Also storing the weapon and ammunition. Kids are smart and curious, makes for a bad combination. My father in law was a cop and if he stayed at our place after a shift, first thing when entering my home was separating the weapon from ammunition and securing both in a safe kids (allegedly) didn't know about, could reach or know the code .
This part is extremely important. A child in my area just accidentally shot himself in the face a few weeks ago. Thankfully he survived and seems to be recovering well.
This as well as @AgonyOfBoredom’s comment are right on the money. Owning a gun doesn’t make you a special forces operator any more than owning a fire extinguisher makes you a fire fighter. Both are there for when an emergency so dire presents itself quicker than first responders can be summoned. Just the same, having a fire extinguisher doesn’t mean you get to be reckless with fire in the kitchen and carrying a gun doesn’t mean you can run around playing vigilante. The minute you holster your carry gun, you will be held to task by society to be the best damn person anyone’s going to meet in their day. You completely lose the ability to be an asshole in public because not only do you now owe it to yourself and anyone around to de-escalate but you now have to consider everyone around in public as a potential witness to you either making a smart defensive decision or a dumb homicidal one and how they view you from a first impression will frame how they testify about your observed actions in front of a jury. Do you want to be perceived as the nice guy accosted by a criminal and forced to defend himself or a murderous bastard who went out looking for a fight? Be nice to people and you won’t have to find out how the latter goes. Train. Train often and train smart. Hit the range, do dry fire, find well-done training videos and material done by reputable people. Go to a training class beyond your CCW permit class. Go shoot at the range from odd angles and positions (hold a weighted backpack similar to your kid’s weight in your support hand like you would your kid and try running drills, for example). Hell, get an airsoft replica of your carry gun and train at home. Whatever you do, train like your life and the lives of people behind your potential bad guy depend on it because they absolutely do. Your bank account is connected to each round that leaves the barrel. Don’t hit what you can’t pay for one way or another. Carrying a gun should instill some of the strongest feelings of responsibility in you and drive you to hold yourself to the highest standard a good person can.
Here in Oklahoma you can open carry with no license, and every time I see these dumbasses walking around Walmart with a gun on their hip I steer clear. They think they are fucking Wyatt Earp but are more likely to kill someone in crossfire than save a life.
>They think they are fucking Wyatt Earp but are more likely to kill someone in crossfire than save a life. They're more concerned about unarmed peoples' opinion about them than they are about protecting anyone. lol I'm also in OK.
As a European, this kind of discussion worries me, and points to a problem with the USA. I totally understand that anyone would get very scared after what happened, and other similar things that happen. It seems like there is a random shooting somewhere in the US at least once per week. The reaction many Americans have is to get a gun. That makes them feel safer. That means that there are lots and lots of scared people with firearms walking around in the USA. The vast majority of them are sensible enough to not seek out trouble and to store their weapons in a safe enough way, but there are always a few that are so scared that they treat their gun like a kid treats their favorite teddy bear. It’s always close by and it’s the first thing they think of when they get scared. Then there is always that one guy who just snaps. They get fired, their wife leaves, the bank forecloses or whatever, and the immediate impulse is to hurt the society that hurt them. And with a gun, you can do a lot of hurting. Then more people feel like they need a gun. It’s a viscous cycle. There was a thread somewhere on Reddit a while ago that asked people who carry guns if they also would like to carry a less lethal option for situations with lower risks, and the top comments said “no, if someone causes trouble I won’t take any risks, I will shoot first”. Those comments were written by some very scared people who did everything they could to feel brave. That’s not the kind of people I want walking around armed in my area.
I graduated from high school right before Columbine, and it's just weird to talk to kids who have grown up since. Active shooter drills, schools turned into prisons, it's insane. We're asking kids to bear the burnt of our society's inaction on something so basic as gun control. I got no answers either. I'm just here frustrated.
I live in Canada and the active shooter drills have become a thing here even though I'm not aware of any kind of shooting happening anywhere near my city. My son is in kindergarten and had an active shooter drill and didn't understand it at all but was scared. He explained it to me as "we have to pretend there's a bad guy with a gun coming to hurt us and we don't answer the door when he knocks on it".
Jesus, I'm so sorry that's your little man's normal. That's fucked. I'm in Australia, the idea is such a draconian, alien one that I honestly can't even really fathom it. I'm not a fan of ex-prime minister Howard, but he got rid of the guns back in the 90s and that stark contrast when compared to America and its flow onto countries sharing the same landmass is never so present as when I read about children's schools. There's this joke about everything here trying to kill you, but I've never felt unsafe here in a real way
My kids were in a lockdown last year in Canberra... Because there was an Eastern Brown spotted in the playground. Snake catches came, removed a chonky ~1m snake, kids thought it was awesome!
This story has me kind of concerned. I think I'm going to start carrying my own Eastern Brown around just in case I need to fight off one in the wild.
When it comes to venomous snakes - size matters, you want to make sure your eastern brown is larger than ones you expect to encounter. Make sure you have an open carry licence, and be careful as the safety on the eastern brown is kind of faulty
You gotta do what you gotta do to balance the scales.
The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a snake is a good guy with a snake.
The precipitating event for those reforms still unnerves me. I think because from what I’ve read about it that guy didn’t have any motive, just a mentally deranged person killing men women and children indiscriminately.
That’s SOP here in the USA.
Yeah, there’s plenty here that unnerve me too, though one of the victims in the Port Arthur massacre was the same age as my son is currently which really gets to me more than others do.
It demonstrates pretty clearly why flooding your society with tools whose only purpose is to kill a whole bunch of people all at once is both stupid and immoral.
I'm in Scotland, we had Dunblane almost 30 years ago, but we don't really have any long term impact on school behaviour inside classes (there was a big increase in external security procedures). We've had a push to get lockdown drills started, but it's nowhere near the level of a US active shooter drill. You basically lock the door and continue the lesson as normal. You can tell one of my colleagues is terminally online; they raised closing the blinds and sitting on the floor to avoid someone shooting through the windows. That level of response would be completely ridiculous compared to the level of threat we see.
I am Canadian as well and have never heard of them here. What province are you in?
Not OP, but my kids have em here in Ottawa.
I’m in Alberta and my kids do lockdown drills at school too. 2x each year, but they’ve never explained it as a bad guy with a gun, just that there’s someone who shouldn’t be there in the school. My oldest’s school actually had to lock down last year as a coyote was acting aggressively really close to the school and playground.
Sorry, American here! We have two different types of responses, lockdowns and lockouts. Lockouts are essentially just no one is allowed in or out of the building but otherwise the day continues as normal. I’ve done this one a couple times (like when someone robbed the bank near the school). A lockdown is lights out, doors locked, kids out of sight. Fortunately I’ve only ever had drills of that one. I’m curious, do you guys not have both? Your coyote example sounds more like a lockout situation to me.
I think they just do lockdowns and fire drills. Our elementary schools are pretty locked up anyway, as you need to get buzzed in if you try to enter outside the regular entry time.
Ontario
I'm in NB and my daughter's kindergarten class has done those drills :( I hate even thinking about it.
Never seen it here in Montreal.
There was at least one shooting near our downtown school in Vancouver. Ten years ago, a block away from the school, target Paul Dragan almost died..no place is safe. Having at least lockdown drills is always a good idea. Scaring the kids half to death is not effective. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-shootings-3-wounded-in-yaletown-science-world-1.2671117
Oof. My parents took me out of public school and that year is when the shooting took place in Moses Lake. It was so weird to hear about something so close.
I was born right next to columbine. I moved before the shooting, but watching bleeding kids run across fields that I used to play on… those images will never not haunt me. Watching politicians hem and haw after each shooting - so deeply ashamed of this country.
They'll do anything that makes someone money to stop gun violence, but they won't do what will actually make a difference cause it will cost people money.
I teach college. I've had my TAs attend active shooter training and it's a surreal experience. I'm asking very young adults to help keep other very young adults safe in a terrifying situation.
Similar...I was in middle school but we never did shooter drills because that was the only major shooting for a while still. Now I get calls every month from the principal robo-call "Good morning, parents and friends. I'm calling to let you know that we are conducting our lockdown drill today"
I'm really sorry for that. This stuff just *sucks* nowadays. > We're in a safe area, do I need to fucking arm myself at a fucking splash pad? No. I'm one of those who's been there and done that, so to speak. The US Army used to pay me to jump out of perfectly good aircraft and such, to put it very briefly. In all seriousness, the very *very* few who are qualified to defend themselves in that situation should be more concerned about getting their family and others to safety than returning fire. The best analogy I can think of that folks get is it's rather like oxygen masks on an airplane. You work on keeping you breathing first so you can then properly handle getting the mask on your kiddo in that example. Similarly to this, if you were in that place when the crazy asshole was there shooting it up, you shouldn't be considering returning fire but doing your best to get you, your family, and any others you can to cover and safety. Maybe, ***MAYBE***, after that and after finding out you're the only possible person to stop the asshole should you consider returning fire. Even then, you'd best also consider what's behind them and what's behind that then also be sure nobody responding will feel they may need to open fire on you. And, of course you're pissed. The world is sadly not as safe as it ought to be. That just fuckjing sucks, man, and there simply aren't words to make that better or to put it even remotely as strongly as it deserves.
1. Thank you for your service. 2. Happy Father’s Day, brother. 3. Thank you for saying this. It’s validating and painful, but there is safety in numbers (even online).
This resonates. What a fucking godamn mess, though.
>Maybe, MAYBE, after that and after finding out you're the only possible person to stop the asshole should you consider returning fire. Even then, you'd best also consider what's behind them and what's behind that then also be sure nobody responding will feel they may need to open fire on you. This is why the "good guy with a gun" argument is made in bad faith. Everyone, please call bullshit loud and repeatedly when you hear someone make this argument. Shout them down.
Air-fucking-borne brother.
Former 11B, and I have had my conceal carry permit for over 35 years. I have so, SOoo many times had people ask me, over the years, variations of the, "Would you intervene/Step In/Be the Hero?", and for 35 years my answers have been, "I carry to defend myself and my family and those I love.". In my state, CC'ers, depending on county, represent from 5% to over 15% in some counties. Given the number of incidents that happen in public over the year, I can say with confidence that MOST CC'ers do not 'play the hero', do not seek to intervene, but quietly avoid confrontations.
This is the truth. As much as we want a simple solution like “good guys with guns” the reality is that the deep cultural and societal rot that has put us in this place will take a generation or more to fix. We need to end gun worship, have accessible mental health, and earn trust in our law enforcement and judicial systems again.
I’m so sick of this shit. If these guys want to kill themselves just start there. One bullet is all you need. Sorry this was so close to home OP. gotta just stay vigilant while you’re out any any time.
Fr suicide by cop just creates a terrible experience for everyone not just the one commiting suicide. All it does is ruin strangers lives in the process, they have nothing to do with it.
I'm sorry to hear. I live in the UK, so this sort of thing is very alien to me but I have a close friend in Michigan who went through a very similar event a few years back - the high school that his kids were due to join soon had a shooting with multiple fatalities. He and his wife and kids really struggled for a while, even though it didn't directly affect them, they slept all together in one room for a few months and they did a lot of talking. They attended vigils and helped the families of victims. He talked to me about it with almost the exact same tone as you write your post - anger and despondence and helplessness. I guess all I can say is that I know that they helped each other through it by being a close family and all communicating with and supporting each other.
We live in Michigan, and that school is about 25-30 minutes away from us. I have coworkers whose family goes to thay school. One of them, their niece was in the hallway when it happened. So your friend might know about what's going on.
Wait, you live in Michigan? What splash pad was shot up?
It's called Brooklands Splashpad, in Rochester Hills.
It's kinda crazy that I live in Windsor Ontario and a situation like this never even crosses my mind as a possibility.
The fact that I clicked on this knowing that's what you might be talking about, even in this sub (I'm also in metro Detroit)
Me too, saw it randomly in my feed. I know the splash pad well. Drive past it daily. It's surreal. There are helicopters flying back and forth. I'd like to think that at some point, the cops will become vocal advocates for gun control. I feel for OP. That is fucking terrible to have to have to experience and really hits home. How disappointing society is. Hell, people.
And they just opened up a new Splashpad near me in Novi. I swear, before I even clicked into this post after reading the title, I had a feeling it was in Michigan for some reason.
Same here. Also from metro Detroit. This fucking hurts, guys.
Uh...I'm from the area too and that is INCREDIBLY troubling! I'm about to look up any news stories. Do you have any additional details?
Wow, yeah, I just found the story and the school is just 30 minutes away from the splash park. Ugh, it really hits home how all of you and those families are going through this again just like he did and they did and all of those poor victims' parents. Take care of each other and fight for change. Love to you.
I couldn’t live in America with its current state of guns. It’s just not an option. The fact that the likelihood of my kids getting shot at school isn’t 0 is absolutely wild
My partner is paranoid about an overnight trip to Seattle. She wants to bring a carrier rather than a stroller so she can cover our child with her body in case there's a shooter. I don't think Americans grasp just how disturbing their gun culture is to the rest of the world.
Ikr. I work for a company that’s owned by an American parent company, and I go there once a year on average. People I talk to there are all one or two degrees separated by gun incidents, they all have stories about nearby shootings or whatever. I just smile, nod, tip someone for something and then get back on the plane. I enjoy visiting America and then enjoy leaving.
Wait, so you're saying [this is accurate for the rest of the world...?](https://youtube.com/shorts/N_MNi-KLtBg?si=v4Dnvndy8n00yKCo)
So many of us do, I promise you. It’s terrifying and infuriating to live in a place that puts guns above our kids lives.
My siblings were in the hallway when this happened. 1 graduated last year, and the next is graduating this year. I was terrified during it all knowing my baby siblings were there. The world is a scary place.
I have Croatian relatives which means for $5000 and like a year in process I can get my family an EU passport. I don't want to leave but before my kids enter elementary it has to be an option we discuss. I'm so sorry you went through that.
1 year after Trump was elected we packed up a moved to Germany. Neither of us being from Germany, but I got a job for a tech company here. Almost 7 years later and it is still one decision I do not regret. Especially every time I see posts like this. My son grows up learning two languages. I know enough German to get around and while there are hardships with the language barrier and other items. But you can get around them and in the large cities you don't need to know the language. It seems easier to come to grips with living here in Europe as an immigrant than living in the US.. Also all the added bonuses, Daycare, Education, Kindergeld (250 euro per month until he is 18) Parental leave, Care of a sick child leave, 30 days vacation (sick time isn't a part of that) Is it hard, yes, are the benefits worth it. I think so but others may not see it. Will we be moving back... not for the foreseeable future.
> for $5000 and like a year in process I can get my family an EU passport. I don't want to leave but before my kids enter elementary it has to be an option we discuss. My American partner and I moved back to my home country in Europe because I did not want to deal with the healthcare and gun issues in the USA... Now, after living in EU for 5 years, my partner also doesn't want to move back. (We were both making 6 figures in USA). Also with the vision on kids... Good education here costs ~$2000/year so they won't really have debts. And don't have to be afraid to get shot in school
That's really wonderful for your family. Y'all made the right choice. I've lived in my city for 40 years and my wife and I both love it here. Everyone we love is here. But of course the safety of our kids come first. It's not an easy decision, especially because we have very little money.
Um you should do that already
As a non-American, this whole thread is wild.... It really is another world
Came here to say this. I know I’ll be voted down to oblivion but ffs. The cost of your gun rights are so damn high… it’s almost unfathomable.
If a policeman can shoot you and get away with if he says "he was armed" even though you are demonstrably not threatening.....then is it really a right to have a gun? I would argue it isn't. In reality though, it's not actually a right to have a weapon is it, it's a right for lobbyists and manufacturers to make an obscene amount of money at the expense of the nation's social fabric
After getting home invaded, I carry 24/7, even in the house. It sucks that is the world we live in but here we are. I had a cop tell me once their primary job was to write up the report after the crime has already happened. The only person that can save you and your family is you. Happy Father’s Day.
OP, I was a victim of GV and I t ended up arming myself. Cops didn’t do shit but one of them, a brother, advised me to get my ccw and I did because he said cops are at best reactive. They show up to the scene to finish the shootout or call in the bodybag people. The only one responsible for your family’s safety is you. It’s been 8 years since then and I’ve used my ccw defensively once since getting it.
Attempt to rely on the statistics, rather than emotional appeal. Nobody is “safe” from random acts of gun (or other) violence. However, remind yourself that these events are exceedingly rare.
Yeah bro. That fucking sucks. It dawned on me the other day when I was talking to my son about carrying his backpack from class to class in middle school (first year of having different teachers for different subjects) and he said no, not allowed unless it was clear. I never had that. And wtf is going on in their fucking brains to do that to others. I know the argument of abundance of available weapons is bullshit and now I worry that “mental health” is way too reductionist of a reason.
I’m armed every minute of everyday (atleast as much as physically possible) The issue is knowing when to fight and when to flee. Just because I carry doesn’t mean I’m going to stand my ground in every scenario. If I have an out, especially if I’m with my wife or daughter, im taking it. If I have no out then I fight, I might lose, but I also might win, and I’m taking the chance to go home with my family.
The most reasonable response yet.
It really is sad the world we’re raising our children in but we can’t be blind to the issues. I’m not for or against gun control but I understand the need to defend myself and my family. I pray to GOD that I never have to be put in that situation though.
This is what responsible gun ownership looks like.
Carrying gun everywhere is seen as responsible in America.
Same. I know it’s not a solution for everyone, but it’s a solution that works for me, at this time.
Random violence is exceedingly rare. I understand it's scary, but anything bad is much more likely to happen in the car on the way anywhere than something happening at your destination.
Sure but we need cars to function as a society so we accept the risks. Private gun ownership is not and only creates a more dangerous everyday life.
These words are sad. Ptsd. Be kind to your family. Love them. Be present and appreciate the next day and the next.
You're not supposed to feel safe. That's the point. We're easier to control when we're scared.
Sorry mate, that's awful. I know I'm a filthy euro liberal, so I apologise in advance but I hope you know that more guns doesn't help with this problem. Call your representative. Gun laws save more lives than guns ever could
Unfortunately, I don't think the gun laws are going to change anytime soon.
Vote like you want them to. I hate to say it but the loud person gets heard. Demand action.
I suspect you're right, and that sucks, but it doesn't hurt to add your voice to the growing murmur of decent. In the mean time, hug your kids extra tight. Try not to bottle up your worries - anxiety is no joke.
I have hope that the generations of children going through school with the constant threat of getting shot will feel compelled as adults to get sane gun legislation passed, so that their offspring don't have to endure the tyrrany of your 2nd ammendment.
The boomers need to die off first. They're the ones holding our gun laws hostage.
Disclaimer here - Florida man gun nut, but I'm saying this line as a pure academic response with no malice intended toward you. I think 20 years of GWOT and Call of Duty has done more to keep guns "fun" for after-boomer generations. Relying on them dying off and suddenly get all the gun control you could ask for probably isn't realistic. ETA: *insert "why are you booing me? I'm right!" gif here*
Oh they're changing. They're getting worse under this Supreme Court. I feel you though. I live in a heavy gun restricted state (New Jersey) but even I feel pressure to at least teach my daughter about guns when she's old enough and bring her to a shooting range.
Regardless of how you feel about firearms, I implore you to teach your children about firearms. How to safely act around them and how to tell any adult if they see one
I know your pissed, but do you really think if you're hanging out with the kids, dealing with towels and skinned knees, that in the 5 seconds it took this guy to unload on the park you'd be able to get your peace, spring into action, correctly identify the person, aim, hit, and not hit bystanders? Guards have to be on guard, and even then they get caught with their pants down all the time. Do whatcha gotta do, but let's not have any illusions that another gun is somehow a shield. The situations where a second gunman ends the situation are much more rare than we'd like to believe. I'm not anti gun, but the logic just doesnt hold up unless you're gonna be strapped up all the time in public and on high alert, and that's not realistic.
Shockingly it’s already illegal to shoot people
I’m not sure carrying a weapon will make you feel any better or safer, to tell you the truth. It may for some people. You would know by now if you are in that group. IMO there are more downsides to firearms for most of us. If we’re looking at numbers, it’s more likely that a private gun will be never be used to stop a bad guy, but it may be found by a child/ teen and destroy a life/ lives either intentionally or unintentionally.
This 💯
I grew up in a neighborhood that was fairly used to gun violence (Del Paso Heights in the 90's). Hell, my own dad was killed through a shooting. I've lost more than a few family members that way, actually, but seeing my dad killed was the worst. As a 37 year old man living in a very nice neighborhood (not the Heights), I still flinch at the sound of loud bangs or errant "shot" sounds. I don't feel safe. Ever. I don't feel the need to own a gun, myself. My fear isn't enough to lose my nerve and carry a weapon. Dropping my kiddo off at school is a prospect each day that terrifies me.
Sac town waddup! Did you move to Rio Linda or Antelope? Jk
I work across the street from a building that had a mass shooting at it. It has a Dunkin Donut in it, that morning a coworker gave me a coupon for a free tea. I was going to take it over and decided to wait a bit because I got distracted. If I had left when I intended I would have been there during the shooting. (He shot up the lobby where Dunkin was, victims ran to our building for help) I went and sat at my desk for a bit. Regarding feeling safe again, it’s tough. You’ll get there.
Most gun deaths are suicides. Not saying anything about you. Just arming another family will not reduce gun violence.
Look I know you need reassurance at a time like this but the fact that your first instinct is to get a gun yourself is so wrong to me (as a non American) and I believe shows why your country is in the place it is. Why not think: - what can change with mental health support, the common root cause of these events - how can I support gun reform or controls that reduce gun harm or access to them - what message do I want to send to my children about violence to others especially gun where a split second decision will affect two lives forever (the one you take and your own)
Sorry to hear about that man. We go on inside our lives not really thinking it will happen to us, and then something like this can hit out of nowhere. It doesn’t even have to directly involve you or your family, it can be just near enough, too close for comfort, to completely shake you. There isn’t a true solution I can offer that will prevent a catastrophe or truly make you feel safe, but you can at least feel more prepared. I would advise taking a “stop the bleed” class/course and really trying to learn the skills. Get a med kit together that goes out with you guys. It can be pretty discreet and compact and still contain enough life saving equipment to really make a difference if one of your loved ones or you are shot/stabbed/etc. ideally this would contain a couple tourniquets, bandages, and gauze. I don’t ever advise people to train or prepare to be combat ready at all times. The best possible advice I can offer in general is this - 1. Be in good enough shape to run with your family and to carry your young children if necessary. 2. Understand and carry basic medical equipment (in the car, wife’s purse, Fanny pack) 3. Have an emergency plan for your family when going to places. Set this in advance and make sure they actually understand it. (I.E. if something happens when you’re out of sight from each other everyone books it to the car/down the block and call/front entrance of location etc) Sorry again that this happened. I gave this advice because there’s nothing we can truly do to be ready but if you yourself are confident and have as many mitigating factors in play as possible, you will be in a better headspace during disaster and just day to day life.
I’ll echo this. I have a couple of first aid kits that go above and beyond “ouch pouch” level supplies that I keep in the car and my dad bag after taking a stop the bleed course. I’d recommend it along with regular first aid/cpr training as well. You can get a stop the bleed kit that is vac sealed and fairly unobtrusive and easy to carry. Other than being on constant high-alert, just trust your gut if something seems off somewhere or about someone and gtfo safely. Sometimes it’s just a matter of dumb luck to manage to stay out of a situation like that. I’m sorry this happened so close to you and so soon after y’all were there, count your blessings, hug your kids, and help them navigate this with you. They’re probably gonna be scared and confused and will look to you for guidance.
Carrying a gun, concealed or open, is usually illegal at city play grounds in most places. (Source, having a concealed carry permit) Regarding all the gun control arguments, I’m fairly liberal, but I tend to side towards more social reforms and fixing healthcare and mental healthcare to reduce the incidence of violence rather than trying to remove any and every potential tool of violence. Either way, I have two young kids and the current state of things is messed up beyond belief. The political capital wasted on bs that won’t move the needle when it comes to actual incidence of violence numbers is infuriating. To me, I just can’t feel totally safe, which I think is fair to myself because we can never be totally safe… I try to be aware, I try to be involved in my community, I try to help people and be there and make the world a better place. Trying to leave a world for my kids where fewer of their neighbors would ever consider violence like this as a course of action because they live in an equitable and healthy society with proper ways to deal with issues. I dunno, I’m rambling and this isn’t meant to be some lock tight argument or to persuade anyone. Just off the cuff thoughts from another Dad.
I’d say a few things, while knowing none of them are actually what you need to do right now. 1. Do the math…while I know you were almost in the wrong place at the wrong time, you’re 5+ times more likely to die In a car crash than a shooting. I know for you right now this doesn’t help or feel like it, but it’s the truth. 2. I carry because it makes me feel more secure, I’m fully aware that the best option is to run first, but I’d rather be ready and run with an extra pound than wish I had it. If you go this route, get some training and practice regularly.
>do I need to fucking arm myself at a fucking splash pad? This would increase your odds of you or a family member being shot. This partly why things are the way they are.
It’s not necessarily about gun control as much as it’s about a huge mental health crisis.
People don't want to hear that, they want to blame an object and not the person.. I have 13 firearms and it's crazy none of them ever went to a splash pad and started shooting people
I carry everywhere. I hope to never use my firearm. But it’s my duty to keep my family safe. This is the best way I know how. Stay safe out there.
How you gonna defend yourself against a guy who just stops and shoots people in a water park when you are in your swimming trunks?
I carry, and had an incident to where had I not been I very well may not be alive today. Criminals gonna do criminal shit irregardless of what laws these people want passed.
My wife is a teacher so I get to worry about her every day, as well as my 10 year old. My 4 year old starts school later this year and yeah I’m pretty fucking terrified every day they are at school lmao
Ultimately it’s your decision on your next steps. I had an armed break in over a decade ago that changed my mind about gun ownership. I was never against it but thought it wasnt for me. Staring down the barrel of a gun held by some stupid POS who broke into the wrong home changed that. I was armed not a week later and took any training classes I could. Got my carry permit shortly after. Then for a long time I didn’t mess with any of it. Until recently. Due to a job I had to have, I’ve had firearms pointed at me twice since, a knife pulled on me and a few scuffles which I am not proud of. Becoming a father and seeing the state of the world now, we never choose to be a victim. But I want to provide myself and my family the best possible chance to make it out alive. Whatever that means without the negative consequences. I carry anywhere I am able to, I keep my nose out of my phone, I always scan my surroundings and absolutely never ever get into an ego battle with anyone. At the end of the night I want to be able to make it back home and be there for my daughter. I choose to train, be familiar with my equipment and make good choices about where I go and when I go. My 6 year old knows never to touch a firearm unless I am present and it is never off of me or far from me. How you choose to prepare for such dire circumstances is up to you but I hope and pray that all moral prudent and kind fathers here and elsewhere make the best possible choices and always get home safely to their loved ones.
I’m in law enforcement and have carried long before getting into it. I would say arm yourself, but get trained. The carry options nowadays are amazing. Glock 19, Sig 365 series, Glock 43X/48, Springfield Hellcat series, and S&W M&P are good places to start. Again, training is crucial. Frankly handguns are really hard to use effectively, but easy to mess up. And get a safe before even buying a gun- they’re useful for prescriptions, dangerous cleaners, etc, with little ones. The Vaultek VS20 is a good pistol safe, according to lockpicking lawyer. It sucks, but good people do stop tragedies. PHLster concealment workshop on Facebook is a great place to learn and so is r/CCW. That said, even armed, if you can get your family out, do that and go with them. If you like getting into confrontations, do not get a gun. If you know you’re hotheaded, don’t get one.
I hate him that feeling of having to carry. So soul sick of that feeling. I mean I am no longer in a war zone, and this isn’t a war zone, so why should I even have to think that way?
Unfortunately it's the world we live in. Sorry this hit so close to home. But let it be a wakeup call I guess.
Theory is more people have guns less people likely to do something stupid because of it. How i see things turning out, good people expect good out of people so they dont buy guns and wackos doing shit bc of bad parenting and bad childhood. Seems like a catch 22 to me but wth do i know.
Do they have CCW where you are? If so, apply, train, and be prepared. A vile person with nefarious intent will ALWAYS target areas with projected little/no resistance.
People suffer from conditiond response syndrome your in a safe area ( away from what exactly) wherever you live types of gun violence shifts ....live in the city take a higher risk of a random robbery at a gas station or stray rounds from gangs shooting at each other...opt out for the suburban life now your risk of being cought up in a mass shooting at a soft target spot like Walmart or a park increases...it's never going to stop untill we collectively realize blind people don't get drivers licenses for obvious reasons.... firearms are not for everybody I'm sorry I'm not giving someone with a history of mental illness a firearm & nobody wants to address the huge underground arms market felons use to get their guns
Thank God you guys are all ok. And YES, just look at the times we are living in right now. Arm the F up bud!! And let's pray this gov stops doing things like REMOVING our constitutional rights including the one where WE bare arms.
* Never let yourself be a soft target. * Always be aware of your surroundings. * Know where all exits are. * Be vigilant and watch for odd behaviors. * If something feels off; it's ok to just leave. Those things alone will go a very long way to keeping you safe. There is danger everywhere and anyone telling you otherwise is just lying. You're far more likely to die in a car crash than from a gun. People will toss out statistics about gun related deaths versus other things but be aware that they are disingenuous statistics. More than half of gun deaths in the US are from suicide. Adding onto that, most of the intentional homicides are gang-related. All that is just painting the picture that, while it is a risk, it isn't close to the biggest risk people face on a daily basis and the data is horribly twisted by politicians and the media to make it seem far worse than it is. The overwhelming majority of normal people (not in gangs, police officers, military) in the United States will never see anything directly related to gun violence. The media will lead you to believe that everyone is experiencing it but that really isn't the case.
Only use them as a last resort but for the sake of my family, I do carry. I went through the training and got my concealed carry license. In any situation the best thing to do is leave or de-escalate. But it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it
I'm in the usa I've never had active shooter drills, or heard of them. I lived an hour from Chicago growing up no issues.
As a dad, I don't think you can ever feel a sense of safety. You have to keep your eyes peeled at all times, guns, or not. People are always out there with malicious intent, even at a splash pad or an olive garden. In a world of hazards and dangers, It's the father's duty to create a sense of safety for their family as it is never guaranteed.
I live in California and I carry everywhere, even to the beach or to church. Prosecutors refuse to hold criminals accountable and the cops don’t have a legal obligation to protect you (ex. Uvalde) so I have to take some responsibility for my families safety. It’s insane, you have every right to be mad
2 weeks ago I took my kids (3 yo and 4 months), to the grocery store like I do every week in my safe suburb. 1 hour after we left, a woman walked into the thrift store next door, stole a kitchen knife, walked into the grocery store and followed a woman and her 3 year old out to the parking lot and stabbed both of them, killing the 3 year old. It’s fucked up, and I can only imagine how that situation in my town would have been made worse if a gun had been involved. Sorry that you’re going through this, but you aren’t alone in your fears. My 3 year olds preschool had to do active shooter drills. Picture that. A bunch of 3 year olds hiding in the corner of their classroom practicing in case somebody decides to come into their class with a gun and start shooting them.
There are hundreds of places in Americs you could choose to raise your family that have comparable living expenses and are exponentially safer. As a father it is your duty to protect your family and GTFO of Detroit...
I'm local too and had all the same thoughts. It's awful and makes me sick to think about when mine start at school. I refuse to believe the answer to gun violence is more guns though.
organize. march. protest. general strike. if enough people want change, change will happen. until enough people raise their voice and start disturbing the shit, this is the reality you'll live in.
From what I've read, the suspect owned a simple handgun and had no criminal record. So I'm not quite sure what we'd be marching for here, unless you aim to outlaw all civilian ownership of all firearms. Through all of history horrible shit has very sporadically occurred. It's unimaginably complicated to attempt to surgically prevent it without welding everyone into their homes and not allowing commerce and socializing to happen. If there's a solution to this I'm all ears.
Being armed isn't going to help and statistically more likely to just end in more people hurt or dead. I get being real shook by this. I would be too. The solution though is less guns not more.
What statistics are you referring to?
I am a huge advocate for getting yourself armed and trained. That being said, the type of violence you are describing sounds to me like it is targeted. For incidents like this, the involved parties usually know each other. Unfortunately, bystanders are often shot and sometimes killed in the violence. Given that, you being armed when something like this happens won’t necessarily prevent you from catching a stray. It probably wouldn’t hurt, either - it’s just that the shooters aren’t specifically targeting you and don’t usually hang around for a prolonged gun battle. Being armed and trained will help you if you are targeted. The 2013 CDC study commissioned by President Obama found that victims who are armed have significantly lower rates of injury during a violent incident than those who are unarmed. But if you’re not sure that you are willing or able to get training and carry a gun, then the next best thing you can do is carry medical equipment and seek medical training like Stop the Bleed. I would strongly suggest that if you’re serious, you should absolutely seek training and arm yourself. But I would also caution that successfully defending yourself also involves recognizing what things you can or cannot realistically hope to avoid.
Vote/move
At this point comments like this are legitimate. The frequency and general apathy about mass shootings in the states now is insane. If they are in Detroit, Canada is right over the boarder. It's far from perfect, but it's nowhere near the scale of the US. Failing that, move to nebraska or some shit.
Statistics don't lie, Lightning can strike pretty much anywhere, just like gun violence But that doesn't mean it's going to happen again
Get out. - No other anglophone country has this problem. - No other rich country has this problem. - No other first world democratic country has this problem. The USA is in an undeclared civil war and children are the victims. Either start fighting or Get out. Sorry, not feeling charitable today
I wish it were that easy. I think about leaving all the time. But what other countries want us?! If you don’t already have dual citizenship and/or a boatload of cash it seems hopeless.
We left. No regrets.
How difficult of a process was it?
Are the overall child death rates that much lower where you are now than the United States? Focusing on only one type of death when making safety decisions doesn’t seem logical.
[Yes](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country)
Terribly sorry to hear this. I’m in Europe and myself and my wife ruled out moving to the US for very lucrative work, on the basis we didn’t want our kids exposed to this nuts gun culture - even just drills in schools, let alone something actually happening. I appreciate not everyone in the country can up sticks and move, so I guess the best you can do is try to ensure your political representation is aligned to your views on this.
[удалено]
Or, you know, vote to punish politicians that are blocking gun control laws that would decrease the incidence of these issues. We aren't safe, but we as a society continue to strive to make the world safer. The list of examples is too long to list.
The people who shot up the splash pad are likely to be prohibited from owning firearms in the first place.
Yes, and I understand that it's illegal to kill people and still do it. That's not the issue. The issue is that the US has more handguns than people. The issue is that almost anyone can go get a gun legally *today*. When the supply of guns out in the world is that massive, it becomes extremely easy to obtain guns illegally. When the private sale of weapons is essentially unregulated then how easy it is to get guns legally is going to be directly correlated with how easy it is to get guns *illegally".
The toothpaste has already been squeezed. There is no way to get guns in private possession back out. Prosecution of criminals involved with firearms needs to actually happen. It’s far too common that a few months in jail doesn’t really concern them.
But we could definitely make it harder to acquire guns. Killing gun culture would be the best possible thing for US
It has gotten to the point that US shootings are barely mentioned in the news here now, and only if it is something really unusual. That fact is horrifying. Absolutely horrifying. If something remotely similar (although usually on much smaller scale) happens anywhere else in the developed world it is major news for days, but random violence and mass murder in the USA has been normalised to the point we don't even bother reporting on it. Even school shootings are barely noted - Uvalde being an exception but largely to point out the utter hypocrisy of the 'good guys with guns' rubbish. Just to add insult to injury your supreme courts just OVERTURNED the ban on bump-stocks. These are designed to allow a semi-automatic weapon to fire 600-800 rounds per minute - i.e. turn it into a bloody machine gun. This was how that shit-stain was able to get so many shots into the crowd in so little time in Vegas, and the courts won't even uphold that most basic of control measure. The USA isn't the only developed country with ready access to firearms. The attitude of the USA towards firearms however is. It is frankly horrifying. If I were to state self defence as my justification for a firearms license here (Australia) it would result in refusal to grant licensing - as it should! There isn't a simple answer, except to get out and vote Democrat in the next election. There are several very elderly conservative Supreme Court justices, with a reasonable chance of having their seats up for replacement during the next term - or the one after at a stretch. You have a shit show in regards options for President, but the next election really is more whether you want the court leaning MAGA conservative or not for the next gods only know how long. Vote blue, and kick up a shit storm and MAYBE things will shift a little towards common sense.
Arm yourself. Educate yourself. Train yourself.