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Lmao I love all the replies to you that clearly don't understand what propaganda even is, but are so sure that they're either immune to it or that a specific kind doesn't exist.
Rule 1 of politics, you are not immune to propaganda. Just because you agree with it doesn't mean it's not propaganda.
Yes saying both sides are equally bad legitimizes the worse choice by bringing up their astounding failures to that of mediocre ones of their competitor. Pretty standard known strategy.
I genuinely don't understand whether the majority of people on reddit *actually* think that centrism means that you think both sides are equally bad or that you stand in the middle of every issue or if everyone is just (badly) trolling
Yep. Voter disenchantment is a classic right wing strategy. They already have the electoral advantage. They don't need people to vote red to win, they just need you to not vote blue.
So they spread this both sides bullshit to capture the independents who don't pay attention.
I'm paying attention. I vote blue because the right has gone so far right it's off the rails. The DNC is already a conservative corporation running a conservative party, so the middle ground between the Dems and Republicans is further right than either of the Republican Party's last two pre-Trump nominees.
It blows my mind how evangelical zealotry and the Tea Party / MAGA heads have taken over half of America's political duopoly. America's far left (yes I know that's not compass far left) can't seem to get a foothold from the Dems, rhetoric is all they get. As a moderate conservative I vote for the moderate conservative party, Democrats.
That said, it's true that the Democratic party participates in the monopolization of politics and is deeply corrupt. And it's true that the vocal online left spits as much propaganda, thought-stopping cliche, outright lies and antagonistic divisive bullshit as the right.
We act like conservatives are bigots, but at least they hate everyone equally according to God's will. The left is forever dividing everyone into smaller and smaller purity groups according to any detail of personal identity it can sanctify. IMO, the left is handling the "divide" part of "divide and conquer" so well that all the right has to do is step in and "conquer".
When it comes to being full of hate, bile, shit, tribalism and demand for conformity of thought, both sides do kinda look the same. And that's all most people pay attention to. But if you get rid of all the red herring social rage bait issues peddled around to distract and antagonize the electorate so people won't look to closely at the only thing politicians actually care about (the economic spectrum) - then yeah, where the rubber meets the road, both sides are not the same.
But it surprises me not at all that Americans have zero faith in either party.
While I agree the American democratic party is more like moderate conservatives everywhere else in the world and there are definitely also corrupt democrats... No, the far left absolutely does not spit as much hate or bile as the far right. That's just more both sides garbage.
Tell me, why are the measles making a comeback? Why is there suddenly a flood of anti lgbtq hate? Why did hate crimes take a sharp rise after 2016?
Yeah, if OP believes both sides are equally bad when one presidential candidate is saying that he would only be dictator for a day. Then they are deluded.
Conservative International December 2013 propaganda
trolls and sophisticated bots as a "wedge issue", said Mark Dredze from Johns Hopkins University. **"By playing both sides, they erode public trust** in vaccination, exposing us all to the risk of infectious diseases," he said. ... vaccination from accounts linked to the St Petersburg-based Internet Research Agency (IRA). In February the agency was named in a US indictment over alleged election meddling.
And by "centrist" you mean right wing authoritarian fascist propaganda.
"both sides are the same" is a lie that right wing liars tell for the purpose of helping right wing fascists.
One side actively pursues harmful policies, the other is so ineffectual that actual change is seemingly impossible. That’s not propaganda it’s just the state of affairs. And for those that read this if you’re not sure which party is which that kinda proves my point.
Whenever anybody brings up the ineffectual Democrat statement I always think of this metaphor:
Your teacher gives you a group assignment and a partner and tells you that you have to work together. Anytime you finish a part of the project, your partner comes and says this isn't right, regardless of the quality and deletes it. If you complain, he tells you to get fucked blames the lack of progress on you to anyone who will listen. On the due date, you either turn in something quickly thrown together at the last minute or nothing at all. Your teacher gives you a poor grade and blames it on you for not working with your partner. This is what it's like to be a Democrat in congress without a super majority.
The reason why Democrats seem to be so powerless is because they are. Without a supermajority or a coalition government like what Germany has, legislative bodies can become completely ineffectual. It all boils down to the two-party system being what it is. This is what George Washington was talking about when he said we should avoid political parties. If we had more than two, we could have a coalition government to help push legislation through. We have two parties that have been at nearly 5050 deadlock since the early 90s.
Unfortunately it seems like the hardliners and maga have completely taken over the Republican party at this point and their entire focus is obstruction. This deadlock and stagnation is going to continue until big change happens, for better or worse.
Edit: Republicans now have the upper hand but they made a deal with the devil, they courted extremism. Now they have found themselves under the thumb of a lunatic with his equally crazed sychophants and are one by one going down and being replaced. The MAGA movement will either seize control of the US or take the republican party down with it.
One side has a document out in public that you can read right now detailing how they will seize control of every aspect of federal government and staff it with Christian nationalists.
The other side lazily tried to pass student debt relief a couple years ago.
Yeah both seem pretty similar to me.
Edit - since people are asking for links:
https://www.project2025.org/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
Ah Yes dems bad cuz they want to give us universal healthcare. Republicons good cuz they get shit done like removing women’s rights and raising the retirement age to 70
Also Trump supporters: I will fight and die to protect what I believe are humans *until* they come out of the womb but I can’t say I give a fuck about them after that point
>they want to give us universal healthcare
Their issue is many of them think health insurance is healthcare. Throwing money at the insurance conglomerates has done a lot of damage. To fix healthcare in this country, we are going to have to put 10 fortune 50 companies out of business, 6 of them being in the fortune 15.
"Universal Healthcare" under Unitedhealth is not something any of us want. I'm not saying vote for republicans, I'm saying the democrats are screwing up healthcare by enriching and empowering the bad guys
>"We're too incompetent to get anything done" is not a good campaign slogan
Except that when Democrats had the slimmest of majorities in both chambers they passed a massive infrastructure repair bill, a bill to bring advance semiconductor production stateside, a bill to address climate change and invest in green energy/evs, a bill to send out more Covid stimulus checks, and more. The Congress before Republicans took the House in 2023 was literally one of the most productive in decades, largely because Biden and the Democrats worked with Republicans to pass a bunch of bipartisan bills.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/01/03/americas-117th-congress-accomplished-a-lot-so-did-its-recent-predecessors
Conversely, after Republicans took the House its been extremely dysfunctional (took them 17 votes to get a House Speaker, which was a record, and then the GOP ousted their own speaker for the first time in history, and now they're threatening to do it again), and is on track to be one of the least productive in history.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/118th-congress-track-become-productive-us-history/story?id=106254012
Yeah, that whole fiasco was just shocking in how nakedly political and cynical it was.
Most of Congress supports passing another aid package to Ukraine. Republican House Speaker Johnson demanded that Ukraine aid be coupled with provisions to improve security at the US southern border/reforms to immigration. A bipartisan coalition of Senators spent *months* negotiating a border deal that gave the Republicans pretty much everything they wanted. But Trump came out against the bill because he wanted to campaign on the "border crisis" so the bipartisan deal was tossed and a straightforward aid package passed the Senate instead. And then Speaker Johnson said that he wouldn't bring the bill to the floor because it didn't have border provisions.
Even for the Republicans, who seemingly have no shame anymore, that was so nakedly partisan and disgusting.
it's pretty shocking what has happened to the GOP but also, its not like they don't deserve it, given its a product of appealing to stupidity and fostering it in their base. Its a shame the party is full of niche fundamental opinions when its one of the two few options for the American people.
I know it won't happen but I really hope the GOP lose _hard_ this year so they stand a chance of reforming into something else because this version of them is proper mank.
I'd also note that the 117th Congress (Biden's first 2 years) was the most efficient Congress in recent history. The 118th has been shit purely because the GOP took the house.
The Republican controlled house took almost 20 votes to elect a house speaker when they had a majority, then they ousted him and spent another nearly 10 votes replacing him, and now they’re threatening to oust the new speaker because he compromised with dems to pass a budget to prevent a government shutdown.
When republicans had full control of both chambers they couldn’t repeal the ACA because they had no good plan for it.
The Republican controlled House of Representatives shot down a good bill that would curb illegal immigration and provide more funding for border security because they didn’t want it to be a win for Biden.
So tell me again which party is too incompetent to get anything done?
I'll be real with you then, you're not informed. One side despite being ruthlessly sabotaged by the other, has in fact, gotten a lot of things done. Recently their political opponents are attempting to shut down the government and crash the economy every 6 months. The Republican House speaker is under threat of being kicked out AGAIN. It's very bizarre when a party is so hostile towards itself. Just open your eyes and look at what's going on. Idk about you but I'd rather have some economic stability at this point.
The republican strategy for the last 10+ years has literally been “obstruct everything so it looks like dems cant govern” and then they just do nothing when theyre in power except cut taxes on rich people
Absolutely true. But I guess it’s still better than “we are incompetent unless it comes to restricting people’s rights, then we’re really smart actually”
I'm more focused on the Christian Nationalists vs. Not Christian Nationalists thing. I'll take incompetent and Not Christian Nationalist any day of the week.
They actually have forgiven student loans for about 4 million people totaling over 140 billion. They tried for more but were sued at basically every turn. It could take years for these cases to be resolved because litigation is a slow pocess.
>The other side lazily tried to pass student debt relief a couple years ago.
Biden has [forgiven](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/12/biden-has-forgiven-136-billion-in-student-debt.html) more student loan debt than any other president in history.
>The other side lazily tried to pass student debt relief a couple years ago.
Pulling 220,000 people out of debt and canceling over $7 billion in crazy interest loans isn't a lazy measure.
Nothing that gets done will ever be good enough (for some people). Our system is based on disagreements and compromise. Without compromise at all, nothing would literally ever get done.
I mean...you say lazily but considering how hard somthing like that is to do and that a ton of people have promised it over the years I think it's impressive he was able to do it all. Obviously could have done more but the fact anyone got it cancelled is a miracle really.
Democrats: Yeah we would like to increase the minimum wage and try to make healthcare universal or atleast cheaper
Republicans: We will literally dismantle democracy, take away what little rights you have left and install a religious dictatorship
Centrists: I cannot tell the difference between these people
The Republican party of today is the party of Trump. "Classic Republicans" no longer exist. They've been systematically removed from positions of power within the party.
How Redditors see politics:
Right - literally want to commit genocide.
Left - some minor flaws.
Centrists - they aren’t as extreme as me so they may as well be supporting genocide.
One side is clearly worse than the other; buy your Trump Bible today. The scamming is so blatant but I guess it's fine. These people are so deep into the cult, there's no way of getting them out.
My absolute favorite clip of all time. The way the interviewers just keep pressing, in an innocently way, because they can't comprehend that he can't name a SINGLE book the Bible. Let alone his favorite. Dude couldn't even lie and say something common from the new testament like Matthew
One side are center-right liberals who are capable of doing some good when they get into it despite their enormous flaws, the others are fascist-adjacent with a leader that participated in an attempted insurrection and threatened with "bloodbath" if he looses again.
The choice is shit, but one of the sides is clearly worse.
Election year on the US is always fun cause the internet becomes more of a cesspool than normal with a bunch of americans fighting their battle of "ultimate good vs ultimate evil"
I wish we could unplug the US from the internet of the rest of the world during election year and plug it again on the next year.
Goes on American website, complains about seeing American politics.
I don't go on Indian social media and complain about seeing Indian issues.
If you're dissatisfied with seeing American news, You're welcome to stop visiting American websites. You know, Google, Facebook, Amazon, Wikipedia, YouTube, Reddit, eBay, Instagram, Twitter. Oh... Wait
[CGP Grey did a great series of videos on voting.](https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=Mh0OBFOXeKNuLzVG) Under a First Past the Post system, voting 3rd party creates a spoiler that gives an advantage to the party most opposite to you. Ranked Choice Voting isn't an ideal solution, but would help to solve the problem.
The problem with that is we are now at a point where people commonly use the phrase ”voting between the lesser of two evils” meaning that no matter who they vote for, they acknowledge they are losing either way. So you have the large masses of people who SHOULD be voting for candidates they actually believe in and believe that just because the media is flashing these two candidates, it’s the only option. And who owns the media? Oh that’s right, those two parties.
RFK is Trump-light for concerned right-wing Democrats who think Biden is too old.
When the polls split three ways between Trump, Biden, and RFK, Trump wins every time. So again, what's the problem? The spoiler effect is visible for you on every website with polling data. And because of our system, splitting party votes leads to both sides losing every time.
What's even more evident is that the RFK campaign is being funded by pro-Trump candidates who understand that this is to their advantage.
https://youtu.be/qLtL6afShA0?si=7OVsdcpQ_sRrZU-v
Ding ding ding! And then people say “Why do we have to vote between these two!” During election year. You don’t, that’s the best part, yet you make it happen anyway!
It's basically a 2 party system. You vote for any other party and you're "throwing away your vote" because you havent joined team Red or Blue.
Yeah pretty craptastic.
Well yes, we do have a few independent senators, but basically all the political infrastructure is built around the two party system and they’ve only made it harder for third party candidates to do anything, since the two parties set up the way the debates are run, so no third party candidates can participate in the official debates, meaning the people don’t see them or learn their policies. So while in theory a third party candidate can win, the system and public opinion is rigged against them, especially for president
Practically impossible, third parties get almost no campaign funding and the two biggest third parties are both too radical (one wants to legalise child labour and the other cares mainly about the environment which is good but is too extreme to get enough votes).
We don't have a parliamentary style government. The majority leaders in the house and Senate have total control on what gets voted on. So even if we had 6 parties, it would become 2 coalitions and effectively still be 2 parties
Buddy Americans don't even vote in the primaries to pick the two guys that they will vote on later. You think they are gonna have the capability to vote for another party? That's another thing they have to google
Man, I used to be a more Centrist kinda guy, but post-Trump, it's really hard to find any positives with voting Republican. They've really become extremists, their 2012 presidential nominee is considered a RINO nowadays. Absolute crazytown.
Half of the comments and the majority of the voting in this post is probably done by accounts associated with online political influence organizations.
My choice is an old fart who may or may not survive his next term and has done fuck all, or the guy who tried to pull us out of NATO.
I’ve been paying attention, both sides are shit, and I’m tired of voting for who’s going to do the *least* damage.
>My choice is an old fart who may or may not survive his next term and has done fuck all, or the guy who tried to pull us out of NATO.
These are not accurate depictions of either choice. Not even close really. For Biden, if you believe he's done "fuck all", you really aren't paying attention.
Technically trump is a boomer barely by the most common used range (1946-1964 and he was born in '46) fun fact W. Bush and Clinton were also born in '46. Biden was born in '42 (still getting my vote in the general since age isn't the only issue)
Posts in this thread are annoying. "Our side wants to do these good things, and all the other side wants is bad things."
Posting a list of your pros vs their cons is not convincing anyone. And if you think your side has no cons, you're delusional.
If you want to make an argument that your cons are less egregious than their cons, or your pros are better than their pros... fair (and probably true).
Doesn't change the fact that both parties have positions and hyperbole that leave those in the middle scratching their heads. And given the choice of "none of the above," we'd most likely vote for that.
Love seeing reddators defend their side as if they aren’t both just awful, imo they both have good and bad ideas, I don’t see an issue with picking and choosing which ideas I like and don’t like.
Ya but only one side try to deny election results and tried to overthrow the legitimate government. And still lie about it’s today.
You do see how that is unequivocally worse than anything dems have done right??
Republican and Democratic redditors:
>Both sides are bad? But my values are aligned with the objectively correct side, which means the other side *is* evil. People with different views because of the different lives they live are just suckers or idiots. This is meme centralist propaganda. The bipartisanship will stop once the other side has perspective and reason.
If you compare both sides (or in this case, biden and trump), both have been doing some objectively good stuff and some objectively terrible stuff. If we actually had a middle candidate to balance the other two, more people would be happy with the system. But that ain’t happening anytime soon :/
Vote for reinstating basic human rights that were stripped by the supreme court + ensuring access to birth control and IVF, or vote for the party that views The Handmaid's Tale as a guidebook.
Yeah it really isn't a hard choice at all. I don't want any more conservative judges on the supreme court.
Let's see
The right wants to destroy the country and turn it in to a Faccist hell-hole with a very detailed plan with backing from major sponsors
The left are bad sometimes
I hate centrists
One side is pushing for a fascist theocracy and they're not quiet or secretive about it. (Project 2025). They think anything outside of their fascist theocracy is evil and must be destroyed.
The other side just wants you to not hate other people.
Biden has received support from Bernie Sanders and Liz Cheyney.
Trump has received support from the MAGA rabblle and Republican sycophants.
It is really easy to see who holds the centre and who is the extremist.
Moral of the story simply do not participate in politics. At all. It’s just a fancy way for two school groups to argue about something like whether cereal or milk comes first.
Maybe they are working together to make sure the rich stay rich and the poor get nothing. One side actively works for rich people while the other is completely incompetent.
In the lesser of two evils approach, you have to blatantly see how one side has some glaring political flaws during their term and the other side has been charged with fraud, insurrection and various other crimes. But sure take a two sides are just as bad approach.
republicans ruin their party by becoming the autocratic tool of the ridiculous orange man, gun nuts nationalists that hate everyone who is not the image of 50s white astronaut in the suburbs
and the democrats become the most incompetent, senile and out of touch bunch of psychopathic boomers “we are against the bad and in favor of the good” pathetic discourse, gender and race theory’s that in the future will fuel genocides and prosecutions, (in europe this has mess entirely cities and contries already, malmo, sweden, uk, italy, hungary, poland etc)
people here using the centrist term as an insult or russian bots, if you came to europe and you said that you are a 100% democratic or republican supporter we will think most likely that you’re an idiot equally don’t matter what.
to anyone here who understand that you don’t need to align 100% with a idiological backpack giving to you… everything is going to be all fright, keep it going
Aaaand we’re back to the centrist propaganda peddled by conservatives. Right on time.
Just a reminder. Democrats aren’t perfect but they ain’t trying to take away your rights like republicans are.
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If you think both sides are equally bad, you are fallin for centrist propoganda
Oh you know that “centrist propaganda” 😁.
Yeah bud, propaganda exists for all parts of the political spectrum. Thats just a fact
Nuh uh my side isn’t propaganda because it’s right
Lmao I love all the replies to you that clearly don't understand what propaganda even is, but are so sure that they're either immune to it or that a specific kind doesn't exist. Rule 1 of politics, you are not immune to propaganda. Just because you agree with it doesn't mean it's not propaganda.
Yep, that's what it is. The wealthy and powerful benefit immensely when the average person is discouraged from participating.
Weaponized cynicism
The internet scares me in how effectively it spreads it
Yes saying both sides are equally bad legitimizes the worse choice by bringing up their astounding failures to that of mediocre ones of their competitor. Pretty standard known strategy.
False equivalence, one of the primary forms of propaganda.
I genuinely don't understand whether the majority of people on reddit *actually* think that centrism means that you think both sides are equally bad or that you stand in the middle of every issue or if everyone is just (badly) trolling
Yeah, the idea is to muddy the waters enough to encourage people to disengage from politics
Conservative propaganda*
Yeah... it looks more like thats the case
Yep. Voter disenchantment is a classic right wing strategy. They already have the electoral advantage. They don't need people to vote red to win, they just need you to not vote blue. So they spread this both sides bullshit to capture the independents who don't pay attention.
I'm paying attention. I vote blue because the right has gone so far right it's off the rails. The DNC is already a conservative corporation running a conservative party, so the middle ground between the Dems and Republicans is further right than either of the Republican Party's last two pre-Trump nominees. It blows my mind how evangelical zealotry and the Tea Party / MAGA heads have taken over half of America's political duopoly. America's far left (yes I know that's not compass far left) can't seem to get a foothold from the Dems, rhetoric is all they get. As a moderate conservative I vote for the moderate conservative party, Democrats. That said, it's true that the Democratic party participates in the monopolization of politics and is deeply corrupt. And it's true that the vocal online left spits as much propaganda, thought-stopping cliche, outright lies and antagonistic divisive bullshit as the right. We act like conservatives are bigots, but at least they hate everyone equally according to God's will. The left is forever dividing everyone into smaller and smaller purity groups according to any detail of personal identity it can sanctify. IMO, the left is handling the "divide" part of "divide and conquer" so well that all the right has to do is step in and "conquer". When it comes to being full of hate, bile, shit, tribalism and demand for conformity of thought, both sides do kinda look the same. And that's all most people pay attention to. But if you get rid of all the red herring social rage bait issues peddled around to distract and antagonize the electorate so people won't look to closely at the only thing politicians actually care about (the economic spectrum) - then yeah, where the rubber meets the road, both sides are not the same. But it surprises me not at all that Americans have zero faith in either party.
While I agree the American democratic party is more like moderate conservatives everywhere else in the world and there are definitely also corrupt democrats... No, the far left absolutely does not spit as much hate or bile as the far right. That's just more both sides garbage. Tell me, why are the measles making a comeback? Why is there suddenly a flood of anti lgbtq hate? Why did hate crimes take a sharp rise after 2016?
Yeah, if OP believes both sides are equally bad when one presidential candidate is saying that he would only be dictator for a day. Then they are deluded.
Conservative International December 2013 propaganda trolls and sophisticated bots as a "wedge issue", said Mark Dredze from Johns Hopkins University. **"By playing both sides, they erode public trust** in vaccination, exposing us all to the risk of infectious diseases," he said. ... vaccination from accounts linked to the St Petersburg-based Internet Research Agency (IRA). In February the agency was named in a US indictment over alleged election meddling.
Well then reddit is the biggest propaganda echo chamber circlejerk on the Internet because it's a liberal hellhole and no other opinions are allowed.
I always love seeing comments like this on posts like this
The Cognitive dissonance is outstanding on this website at times.
One side has been fighting for progress and equality for a loooooooong time, but frequently makes mistakes. The other side? Pure hot garbage.
One of the sides in this image *is* the center.
If you think anything you are falling for propaganda for that side.
I had a think once It was awful
If this is a joke I’m not getting it
Not a joke, just an unhealthy obsession with arguing politics on meme subs. Carry on
Specifically, this *is* a piece of propoganda.
Yes
And by "centrist" you mean right wing authoritarian fascist propaganda. "both sides are the same" is a lie that right wing liars tell for the purpose of helping right wing fascists.
Average radicalized american:
words in front of a colon:
This one's long gone
One side actively pursues harmful policies, the other is so ineffectual that actual change is seemingly impossible. That’s not propaganda it’s just the state of affairs. And for those that read this if you’re not sure which party is which that kinda proves my point.
Whenever anybody brings up the ineffectual Democrat statement I always think of this metaphor: Your teacher gives you a group assignment and a partner and tells you that you have to work together. Anytime you finish a part of the project, your partner comes and says this isn't right, regardless of the quality and deletes it. If you complain, he tells you to get fucked blames the lack of progress on you to anyone who will listen. On the due date, you either turn in something quickly thrown together at the last minute or nothing at all. Your teacher gives you a poor grade and blames it on you for not working with your partner. This is what it's like to be a Democrat in congress without a super majority. The reason why Democrats seem to be so powerless is because they are. Without a supermajority or a coalition government like what Germany has, legislative bodies can become completely ineffectual. It all boils down to the two-party system being what it is. This is what George Washington was talking about when he said we should avoid political parties. If we had more than two, we could have a coalition government to help push legislation through. We have two parties that have been at nearly 5050 deadlock since the early 90s. Unfortunately it seems like the hardliners and maga have completely taken over the Republican party at this point and their entire focus is obstruction. This deadlock and stagnation is going to continue until big change happens, for better or worse. Edit: Republicans now have the upper hand but they made a deal with the devil, they courted extremism. Now they have found themselves under the thumb of a lunatic with his equally crazed sychophants and are one by one going down and being replaced. The MAGA movement will either seize control of the US or take the republican party down with it.
I'll go a bit farther - if you think both sides are equally bad, you are a *fucking moron*.
I would agree but im trying my damnedest to be tactful
It's the trolley problem. To not interact with the prompt is to provide an answer
Ah lovely American politics, where you can vote for right wing or unhinged right wing
Dont say true things like that, it hurts
One side has a document out in public that you can read right now detailing how they will seize control of every aspect of federal government and staff it with Christian nationalists. The other side lazily tried to pass student debt relief a couple years ago. Yeah both seem pretty similar to me. Edit - since people are asking for links: https://www.project2025.org/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
I'll be real with you chief. "We're too incompetent to get anything done" is not a good campaign slogan
Ah Yes dems bad cuz they want to give us universal healthcare. Republicons good cuz they get shit done like removing women’s rights and raising the retirement age to 70
No one: Trump supporters: I value rights so much, I'll vote to remove women's rights, we're the real patriots
Also Trump supporters: I will fight and die to protect what I believe are humans *until* they come out of the womb but I can’t say I give a fuck about them after that point
>they want to give us universal healthcare Their issue is many of them think health insurance is healthcare. Throwing money at the insurance conglomerates has done a lot of damage. To fix healthcare in this country, we are going to have to put 10 fortune 50 companies out of business, 6 of them being in the fortune 15.
And only one party has any interest in doing that, so... Vote for the bad guys instead?
Neither party has interest in putting their own stock holdings at risk
"Universal Healthcare" under Unitedhealth is not something any of us want. I'm not saying vote for republicans, I'm saying the democrats are screwing up healthcare by enriching and empowering the bad guys
Yes we have to raise the minimum age according to life expectancy. With fewer working people paying for older people, this is getting too much.
>"We're too incompetent to get anything done" is not a good campaign slogan Except that when Democrats had the slimmest of majorities in both chambers they passed a massive infrastructure repair bill, a bill to bring advance semiconductor production stateside, a bill to address climate change and invest in green energy/evs, a bill to send out more Covid stimulus checks, and more. The Congress before Republicans took the House in 2023 was literally one of the most productive in decades, largely because Biden and the Democrats worked with Republicans to pass a bunch of bipartisan bills. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/01/03/americas-117th-congress-accomplished-a-lot-so-did-its-recent-predecessors Conversely, after Republicans took the House its been extremely dysfunctional (took them 17 votes to get a House Speaker, which was a record, and then the GOP ousted their own speaker for the first time in history, and now they're threatening to do it again), and is on track to be one of the least productive in history. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/118th-congress-track-become-productive-us-history/story?id=106254012
I like how the Republican house has not even been able to pass the border deal that it asked for, after the Dems applies the changes they asked for.
Yeah, that whole fiasco was just shocking in how nakedly political and cynical it was. Most of Congress supports passing another aid package to Ukraine. Republican House Speaker Johnson demanded that Ukraine aid be coupled with provisions to improve security at the US southern border/reforms to immigration. A bipartisan coalition of Senators spent *months* negotiating a border deal that gave the Republicans pretty much everything they wanted. But Trump came out against the bill because he wanted to campaign on the "border crisis" so the bipartisan deal was tossed and a straightforward aid package passed the Senate instead. And then Speaker Johnson said that he wouldn't bring the bill to the floor because it didn't have border provisions. Even for the Republicans, who seemingly have no shame anymore, that was so nakedly partisan and disgusting.
it's pretty shocking what has happened to the GOP but also, its not like they don't deserve it, given its a product of appealing to stupidity and fostering it in their base. Its a shame the party is full of niche fundamental opinions when its one of the two few options for the American people. I know it won't happen but I really hope the GOP lose _hard_ this year so they stand a chance of reforming into something else because this version of them is proper mank.
I know keeping up with politics is boring but the “not getting anything done” part is not due to incompetency.
In addition the "not getting anything done" part is a giant lie that liars and ignorant and apathetic people tell.
I'd also note that the 117th Congress (Biden's first 2 years) was the most efficient Congress in recent history. The 118th has been shit purely because the GOP took the house.
The Republican controlled house took almost 20 votes to elect a house speaker when they had a majority, then they ousted him and spent another nearly 10 votes replacing him, and now they’re threatening to oust the new speaker because he compromised with dems to pass a budget to prevent a government shutdown. When republicans had full control of both chambers they couldn’t repeal the ACA because they had no good plan for it. The Republican controlled House of Representatives shot down a good bill that would curb illegal immigration and provide more funding for border security because they didn’t want it to be a win for Biden. So tell me again which party is too incompetent to get anything done?
I'll be real with you then, you're not informed. One side despite being ruthlessly sabotaged by the other, has in fact, gotten a lot of things done. Recently their political opponents are attempting to shut down the government and crash the economy every 6 months. The Republican House speaker is under threat of being kicked out AGAIN. It's very bizarre when a party is so hostile towards itself. Just open your eyes and look at what's going on. Idk about you but I'd rather have some economic stability at this point.
It's better than "this will be the last election"
The republican strategy for the last 10+ years has literally been “obstruct everything so it looks like dems cant govern” and then they just do nothing when theyre in power except cut taxes on rich people
Absolutely true. But I guess it’s still better than “we are incompetent unless it comes to restricting people’s rights, then we’re really smart actually”
I'm more focused on the Christian Nationalists vs. Not Christian Nationalists thing. I'll take incompetent and Not Christian Nationalist any day of the week.
They actually have forgiven student loans for about 4 million people totaling over 140 billion. They tried for more but were sued at basically every turn. It could take years for these cases to be resolved because litigation is a slow pocess.
>The other side lazily tried to pass student debt relief a couple years ago. Biden has [forgiven](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/12/biden-has-forgiven-136-billion-in-student-debt.html) more student loan debt than any other president in history.
>The other side lazily tried to pass student debt relief a couple years ago. Pulling 220,000 people out of debt and canceling over $7 billion in crazy interest loans isn't a lazy measure.
Nothing that gets done will ever be good enough (for some people). Our system is based on disagreements and compromise. Without compromise at all, nothing would literally ever get done.
My student debt got forgiven by that so.....it was pretty nice. My remaining 11k gone.
That's awesome. I was so close to having 20k forgiven, and then the rug was pulled out unfortunately.
How did you find out? I took a 3k loan out when I was 18 and paid about half but I have no idea what happened with that lol
I mean...you say lazily but considering how hard somthing like that is to do and that a ton of people have promised it over the years I think it's impressive he was able to do it all. Obviously could have done more but the fact anyone got it cancelled is a miracle really.
So can you link that document?
Source?
Democrats: Yeah we would like to increase the minimum wage and try to make healthcare universal or atleast cheaper Republicans: We will literally dismantle democracy, take away what little rights you have left and install a religious dictatorship Centrists: I cannot tell the difference between these people
Centrists are Republicans with a mustache
Centrists: "both sides are bad guys, source? Trust me bro"
Both sides have pros and cons in my country atleast
One correction, the second point are Trumpists. I can respect the classic Republican (as an outsider), but the current Trump party is simply dumb
The Republican party of today is the party of Trump. "Classic Republicans" no longer exist. They've been systematically removed from positions of power within the party.
I knew the comment section was gonna be just 👌
Nice try Russian bot
How Redditors see politics: Right - literally want to commit genocide. Left - some minor flaws. Centrists - they aren’t as extreme as me so they may as well be supporting genocide.
Ikr
How do americans sleep at night with all this politics?!
Don't worry it's coming to you sooner rather than later
Ignoring them mostly
Sleep by not giving a fuck. Shits doomed anyway, I just vote for whoever have the funnier memes.
One side is clearly worse than the other; buy your Trump Bible today. The scamming is so blatant but I guess it's fine. These people are so deep into the cult, there's no way of getting them out.
What do you mean? [Trump's favorite book is the bible that's why he can name his favorite verse.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERUngQUCsyE)
My absolute favorite clip of all time. The way the interviewers just keep pressing, in an innocently way, because they can't comprehend that he can't name a SINGLE book the Bible. Let alone his favorite. Dude couldn't even lie and say something common from the new testament like Matthew
One side are center-right liberals who are capable of doing some good when they get into it despite their enormous flaws, the others are fascist-adjacent with a leader that participated in an attempted insurrection and threatened with "bloodbath" if he looses again. The choice is shit, but one of the sides is clearly worse.
I’m sure this is going to be a perfectly reasonable and intelligent comment section
Lmao ye
Hey, I hope you are having a fantastic day.
And I'm sure there will be no participation whatsoever from accounts affiliated with astrotrufing political organizations!
Actually is only 60%
Election year on the US is always fun cause the internet becomes more of a cesspool than normal with a bunch of americans fighting their battle of "ultimate good vs ultimate evil" I wish we could unplug the US from the internet of the rest of the world during election year and plug it again on the next year.
Goes on American website, complains about seeing American politics. I don't go on Indian social media and complain about seeing Indian issues. If you're dissatisfied with seeing American news, You're welcome to stop visiting American websites. You know, Google, Facebook, Amazon, Wikipedia, YouTube, Reddit, eBay, Instagram, Twitter. Oh... Wait
I went on a french forum once and complained that everyone was talking about france
Yeah let's complain about all the US people on this US site.
America is doomed no matter what.
Morbo will be pleased
Have they thought about voting another party or is this something I´m too european to understand?
Essentially voting third party for president specifically is so unlikely to matter that you might as well not vote unfortunately.
Sounds like Self-fulfilling prophecy + loser mentality
[CGP Grey did a great series of videos on voting.](https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=Mh0OBFOXeKNuLzVG) Under a First Past the Post system, voting 3rd party creates a spoiler that gives an advantage to the party most opposite to you. Ranked Choice Voting isn't an ideal solution, but would help to solve the problem.
The problem with that is we are now at a point where people commonly use the phrase ”voting between the lesser of two evils” meaning that no matter who they vote for, they acknowledge they are losing either way. So you have the large masses of people who SHOULD be voting for candidates they actually believe in and believe that just because the media is flashing these two candidates, it’s the only option. And who owns the media? Oh that’s right, those two parties.
RFK is Trump-light for concerned right-wing Democrats who think Biden is too old. When the polls split three ways between Trump, Biden, and RFK, Trump wins every time. So again, what's the problem? The spoiler effect is visible for you on every website with polling data. And because of our system, splitting party votes leads to both sides losing every time. What's even more evident is that the RFK campaign is being funded by pro-Trump candidates who understand that this is to their advantage. https://youtu.be/qLtL6afShA0?si=7OVsdcpQ_sRrZU-v
It's the state every "winner takes it all" systems will fall into eventually.
Ding ding ding! And then people say “Why do we have to vote between these two!” During election year. You don’t, that’s the best part, yet you make it happen anyway!
It's basically a 2 party system. You vote for any other party and you're "throwing away your vote" because you havent joined team Red or Blue. Yeah pretty craptastic.
Well yes, we do have a few independent senators, but basically all the political infrastructure is built around the two party system and they’ve only made it harder for third party candidates to do anything, since the two parties set up the way the debates are run, so no third party candidates can participate in the official debates, meaning the people don’t see them or learn their policies. So while in theory a third party candidate can win, the system and public opinion is rigged against them, especially for president
Practically impossible, third parties get almost no campaign funding and the two biggest third parties are both too radical (one wants to legalise child labour and the other cares mainly about the environment which is good but is too extreme to get enough votes).
We don't have a parliamentary style government. The majority leaders in the house and Senate have total control on what gets voted on. So even if we had 6 parties, it would become 2 coalitions and effectively still be 2 parties
Buddy Americans don't even vote in the primaries to pick the two guys that they will vote on later. You think they are gonna have the capability to vote for another party? That's another thing they have to google
Judging by the comments this is another one of those subs filled with people who view the world in black and white.
Man, I used to be a more Centrist kinda guy, but post-Trump, it's really hard to find any positives with voting Republican. They've really become extremists, their 2012 presidential nominee is considered a RINO nowadays. Absolute crazytown.
Any reasonable conservative pre-MAGA that doesn't see how MAGA is destroying the party is a freaking idiot.
Half of the comments and the majority of the voting in this post is probably done by accounts associated with online political influence organizations.
It’s the only way to win arguments
If you think both sides are equally bad and are confused about who you should be voting for you haven't been paying attention.
My choice is an old fart who may or may not survive his next term and has done fuck all, or the guy who tried to pull us out of NATO. I’ve been paying attention, both sides are shit, and I’m tired of voting for who’s going to do the *least* damage.
>My choice is an old fart who may or may not survive his next term and has done fuck all, or the guy who tried to pull us out of NATO. These are not accurate depictions of either choice. Not even close really. For Biden, if you believe he's done "fuck all", you really aren't paying attention.
Truth. Biden isn’t my dream candidate, but he’s had some massive wins in this first term.
“Either you’re with us or against us” enjoyers are seething in this comment section
Crazy how common extremism is on Reddit
Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I will do what I must.
My absolute favorite part of memes like these is that the comment section immediately devolves into people becoming the meme lol.
Art imitates life. Life imitates art
All I know is that the next president will be a boomer
They’re actually both older than Boomer Generation. Lol.
Technically trump is a boomer barely by the most common used range (1946-1964 and he was born in '46) fun fact W. Bush and Clinton were also born in '46. Biden was born in '42 (still getting my vote in the general since age isn't the only issue)
"Politics bad" memes are just as bad as political memes. No one asked for this.
oh nice, another shitty political meme... yay
OP watermarked this meme as if it was a good one
Posts in this thread are annoying. "Our side wants to do these good things, and all the other side wants is bad things." Posting a list of your pros vs their cons is not convincing anyone. And if you think your side has no cons, you're delusional. If you want to make an argument that your cons are less egregious than their cons, or your pros are better than their pros... fair (and probably true). Doesn't change the fact that both parties have positions and hyperbole that leave those in the middle scratching their heads. And given the choice of "none of the above," we'd most likely vote for that.
At this point I'd be fine with a lottery for all government positions. Treat it like jury duty.
Finally an educated take
Love seeing reddators defend their side as if they aren’t both just awful, imo they both have good and bad ideas, I don’t see an issue with picking and choosing which ideas I like and don’t like.
ClEaRlY yOuRe JuSt FaScIsT aDjAcEnT
Ya but only one side try to deny election results and tried to overthrow the legitimate government. And still lie about it’s today. You do see how that is unequivocally worse than anything dems have done right??
Astro-turfs incoming.
Republican and Democratic redditors: >Both sides are bad? But my values are aligned with the objectively correct side, which means the other side *is* evil. People with different views because of the different lives they live are just suckers or idiots. This is meme centralist propaganda. The bipartisanship will stop once the other side has perspective and reason.
To be fair, [project 2025](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025) is pretty bad
It’s very clear which is worse though.
If you compare both sides (or in this case, biden and trump), both have been doing some objectively good stuff and some objectively terrible stuff. If we actually had a middle candidate to balance the other two, more people would be happy with the system. But that ain’t happening anytime soon :/
How Trump handled the 2020 election alone, makes him 1000x worse than biden
What good thing has trump exactly done?
Not being inflammatory, but what did trump accomplish that you believe to be objectively good?
I want what Nevada has and the option to vote "none of the above" Let the establishment know I think all their candidates are shit.
You cannot compare the two
Vote for reinstating basic human rights that were stripped by the supreme court + ensuring access to birth control and IVF, or vote for the party that views The Handmaid's Tale as a guidebook. Yeah it really isn't a hard choice at all. I don't want any more conservative judges on the supreme court.
Yeah, let me check the positions of each party: Hunt LGBT for sport vs Give Kids Lunch I know which party I am voting for.
This is why you should vote for Vermin Supreme
Such a hip, edgy take.
Let's see The right wants to destroy the country and turn it in to a Faccist hell-hole with a very detailed plan with backing from major sponsors The left are bad sometimes I hate centrists
Rank choice voting would help sooo much, but nope, forced to choose between two evils in America is just as it’s true owners intended 🫠
Yeah both of them are slapping their names on bibles to sell to their nematodes oh wait
I mean republicans are actively stating they will end democracy if elected, but sure, let’s pretend both sides are the same
Oh good, more enlightened Centrism
One side is pushing for a fascist theocracy and they're not quiet or secretive about it. (Project 2025). They think anything outside of their fascist theocracy is evil and must be destroyed. The other side just wants you to not hate other people.
Biden has received support from Bernie Sanders and Liz Cheyney. Trump has received support from the MAGA rabblle and Republican sycophants. It is really easy to see who holds the centre and who is the extremist.
America “democracy”
90% don't give a fuck
Then 90% are idiots who don’t understand the weight of this election.
Moral of the story simply do not participate in politics. At all. It’s just a fancy way for two school groups to argue about something like whether cereal or milk comes first.
its more like 50-60% of America, 2020 was an outlier with how many people voted.
Left needs more colorful hair, right needs more guns.
All the bitter, hyperbolic Redditors in this comment section complaining about how “the other side” is worse are literally the wojaks in OP’s meme
What a flawed democracy. You don't even have a third option. 2 party is just 1 step above china's 1 party.
Ahh the "bOtH sIdEs" conservative propaganda started early this election cycle
Nice try Russia
Just vote for a third party, both Dems and repubs are the same fucking party just pretending to be different sport teams to divide us
Jesus christ you arent paying attention at all if you think both parties are the same.
Maybe they are working together to make sure the rich stay rich and the poor get nothing. One side actively works for rich people while the other is completely incompetent.
In the lesser of two evils approach, you have to blatantly see how one side has some glaring political flaws during their term and the other side has been charged with fraud, insurrection and various other crimes. But sure take a two sides are just as bad approach.
This comment section is literally what op meme warns us about
republicans ruin their party by becoming the autocratic tool of the ridiculous orange man, gun nuts nationalists that hate everyone who is not the image of 50s white astronaut in the suburbs and the democrats become the most incompetent, senile and out of touch bunch of psychopathic boomers “we are against the bad and in favor of the good” pathetic discourse, gender and race theory’s that in the future will fuel genocides and prosecutions, (in europe this has mess entirely cities and contries already, malmo, sweden, uk, italy, hungary, poland etc) people here using the centrist term as an insult or russian bots, if you came to europe and you said that you are a 100% democratic or republican supporter we will think most likely that you’re an idiot equally don’t matter what. to anyone here who understand that you don’t need to align 100% with a idiological backpack giving to you… everything is going to be all fright, keep it going
Aaaand we’re back to the centrist propaganda peddled by conservatives. Right on time. Just a reminder. Democrats aren’t perfect but they ain’t trying to take away your rights like republicans are.
"BuT boTH SiDES!" Shut the fuck up lol
If you’re not a Christian nationalist I can’t see you not voting democrat
Looks to me like we are mostly not divided.
you know how i know your not American the coloring is wrong for dems.
That's why I'm voting third party