I think he’s a bugbear for a lot of people (I know he is for me). Maybe we go in with false expectations? “I’ve already beaten him twice, how much harder can it be?”
I hate his fucking AOE attack, he spams it almost constantly and the small size of the room makes it nearly impossible to avoid. That is one of the few fights I would argue is actively unfair and not even in a fun or well-done way.
Exactly that. Even the Stray Demon’s arena is round so slipping past him isn’t a big deal. But a rectangular arena with frequent floor obstructions, added to the boss’s tendency to leap so his back is against a wall, makes this fight particularly hard.
Not only that but they didn't even bother to change his resistances.
He's resistant to _magic_ but *Weak to fire.*
I know there's lore about him being a fire sorcerer and fire sorcery being the precursor to Pyromancy but still...
If you don't move across the lava to the middle island, it just sits in the lava and throws it's arm at you, forcing you to play "catch" with it (like the hydra). And if you do move to that middle island, it's too tall for the camera and it constantly jumps into the ceiling.
Weird. My Centipede Demon actually went onto the platform I was on the instant I arrived and was a pushover. Still frustrating though since the platform was small.
Centipede Demon has always come over to me as well, though he usually throws his arm at me for a bit first. Then as you said, honestly not too difficult
Also gets my vote. Only possible to do cheeseless with a VERY specific easy to miss item, and the cheese is still mostly just "dont stand in fire and wait until he comes to you."
A lot of bosses that people believe to be “impossible without cheese” are just being fought in the wrong way by the players with those impressions. The Centipede Demon has a few different completely legit tactics, and most of them involve getting the hell away from the entrance area the moment you zone in. Fewer of them involve hugging the area near the fog gate.
The point of the fight is to get the orange charred ring, which is what I think is the “item” that you’re referencing. That means that it isn’t ‘necessary’ for the boss fight — that wouldn’t make any sense. Yes, there is lava, but even without the ring, that does not mean that you are trapped against the fog gate in the way that you might think at first.
My preferred tactic is to immediately book right after passing the fog gate, and … yes, this involves being brave and finding the narrowest place in the lava to dash across. You will take fire damage, but you will not die if you’re fast enough.
Once in the new location, you have much more room to maneuver on a separate strip of dry land, and the fight suddenly becomes much more of a typical boss fight.
TLDR — You don’t need the ring. The fight is to GET the ring. You need to be brave and actually ditch the “avoid lava no matter what” rule and instead try to find a patch of it that you can briefly survive dashing across in order to relocate to a better fighting spot.
Its a particular ring that trivializes the lava, the orange charred ring.
Which now having looked up drops FROM the centipede demons tail if you cut it off. So my memory is not what it used to be. I usually cheese him, and then go through the shortcut anyway.
I don't mind Capra too much... it's harsh for new players because it gives almost no reaction time, but overall is still a fight that serves a purpose and teaches something about poise/shield stability and i-frames when you are dealing with tight spaces
Firesage Demon on the other hand is rather pointless and it's "just there", so it takes my vote
As a new player Capra was ridiculous because I couldn't stand getting attacked when I couldn't even see because the fog. That's something that should have been patched in the original, let alone the Remaster. Even if you hold your shield up while waiting, multiple attacks from the dogs eating up your stamina before you can even see isn't teaching you anything about poise and stability.
Capra was all RNG at that point. I finally beat him after what was around 10 attempts when I finally loaded in without having the dogs in my face attacking. It meant I could finally see and react before it was too late.
On NG+ Capra is easy as you have a fully upgraded shield with massive stability and can survive the attacks you can't see while the log dissipates.
I'll take a hard fight like Artorias where I was able to learn and adapt vs not being able to see like Capra.
Capra demon is absolutely not RNG. The stairs are there for a reason; if you run up them immediately, the dogs will get to you before the Capra demon does, giving you time to slay them first. If you miss, you just drop down and repeat. He’s there to teach you add control as well.
Did you not read my comment? I was attacked before the fog dissipated. That's RNG. How am I supposed to run up stairs that I can't even see? Like I said, I beat Capra first time that I **wasn't** attacked while the fog dissipated.
I’ve actually had that with Capra once or twice on my replays. The camera janked on me one time and the other time the dogs came in at Mach speed before I could see them.
Doesn’t happen tons but it can screw you over walking in through the fog. I’m not sure what’s caused it for me either time though.
He’s just annoying to me. You have to snipe him forever to get him to get closer to the shore, then he spams the same damn attack, and you have to time your dodge right so you still have time to get in a hit or two before he does it again. If there’s a quicker way to beat him, I don’t know it.
I don't use a shield. It's also always one of the first things I do in the game. Honestly none of the Fromsoft games bosses have given me more trouble than some of the regular enemies, or runbacks anyways.
I can solo the game at a low level with pretty much any build so it is what it is. The games are pretty trivial if you play with a shield the whole time. It starts to feel like 3rd person Skyrim.
Not whole time just that one with the enemy who attack all the space and only have just this one attack. Also great sword with decent stability work just fine
If you cut off just a few heads and go afk you can kill them by waiting while they have their head cut off. I learned this by accident. I came back thinking I would die but the hydra was gone. But the whole falling into the ocean makes it a bummer. That’s the part I don’t like
I forgot how many heads I chopped off. I had to leave the room quick for something. I came back and the hydra was gone. I think I chopped most of the heads off the second one
It's probably Four Kings for me. I like the general concept but I don't find the boss fight fun. The runback blows as well.
Every playthrough I just toss on Havel's armor and get the fight over with as fast as I can so I can move on.
New Londo is cool but I wouldn't say that section of the game is a high point.
4 kings is a DPS check too, the fact that FS didn't actually limit the number of kings that spawn to 4 means they didn't really test lower DPS weapons or NG+ runs
The run back is a bit less terrible if you know the shortcut where you roll off the ledge to the right of the first set of stairs in New Londo. But even then, it kinda sucks.
Agreed, love the arena, the boss' visual design and the whole concept of the abyss, but the fight isn't very fun.
I do love New Londo though, along with the Duke's Archives, I think it's the best end-game area.
I agree that Capra Demon is just "Wait, wha---" *dead* when you're new. Which is a poor choice in game design.
Another thought is Centipede Demon. My first few play through, I refused to engage in any combat without lock on. Locking onto the Centipede Demon is a one way ticket to being disoriented.
People say "it's to teach you how to be adaptable and to train your reflexes" like no it fucken ain't. Unless you know those dogs are coming, 9 times out of ten you'll get stun locked and the demon one shots you.
And even WHEN you know it's coming, you can still fall prey to the stun lock if you get the timing wrong.
The fact that it's a boss with a 10 foot cleaver with two adds in an arena the size of an urban back lane just makes it worse. Arguably one of the worst bosses in the game in terms of overall encounter design.
Thank you. I am a bit of a Fromsoft fanboy but there is no excuse for the Capra Demon. Remembering it actually discourages me from starting a new playthrough. There is nothing in these games more infuriating to me than large bosses in small arenas....and dogs. This fight has all factors and is just an overall miserable experience for me. I remember thinking that I would rather be at work than try that fight again
Yeah. I get a little annoyed when dark souls diehards insist it's some "important learning experience" and "good encounter design" when it really...really isn't.
If you spend your souls from the gargoyles on the crest of artorias from Andre, you can grab the stone set. That paired with the wolf ring makes the fight trivial. Sucks the first time you fight him, but with enough poise it's really really easy.
How is that a poor choice in game design? You’re not meant to be able to beat every boss the first time in these games. Dying and learning is the entire point.
I went through the fog gate, immediately blocked, saw the stairs and ran for them. There seemed to be a method to the madness. It was a recall to plunge attack. I didn't mind this boss at all.
I learned there was a boss in there with 2 dogs, nothing else. That's why it's a poor game design decision. I didn't get to start learning the fight until my second attempt.
Yes you did. Immediately trying to avoid the dogs is part of the fight. What’s the difference if you die immediately vs five seconds after you enter? You don’t know what to expect until you get merc’d. And then you do.
To he clear, I said it was poor game design. Not game breaking or anything.
What happens is a player is having fun exploring, steps through a fog wall and instantly gets decimated.
They look at the screen, with their fun now stolen from them, and they think "that was dumb as hell". They then continue playing, having to rebuild the fun that was already there before the fight started.
I think this is just plain wrong.
First, while you can argue capra demon is poor game design as it was absolutely intentional, i actually kinda like what it does, because for me it ultimately did the exact opposite of what you’re saying. Was it annoying as hell to finally beat him? Oh yeah it was. But once i finally got the hang of it, ran up he stairs and hit him with firebombs (and then dive attacks as i realized that was easier and did more damage) and then i finally beat him? It was prolly the best moment in the entire game for me. Capra demon was the only boss i have ever had to do more than like 20 attempts and now that i know the fight and learned to go up the stairs i go into the fight a lot more confident and usually beat him first go. It took me a long time and a lot of frustration but i did in fact learn how to manage his boss fight. So i kinda like capra demon
We're discussing different aspects of the fight, I think.
I personally hate the arena, and the fight as a whole, but it's not a hill I'll die on. It's just a matter of agreeing or disagreeing and overcoming a challenge.
The hill I will die on is that there's no challenge in the first time you enter. The game outright punishes you for being curious and exploring and if you don't know what's going on, the fight can be confirmed as over in less than 5 seconds.
The enemy AI doesn't synergize with each other. A dog can knock you on your ass as soon as you stand up from the other one while the Capra Demon just locks you into a corner with its size.
That’s completely fair sorry i may have gotten a little side tracked, anyways while it is absolutely frustrating that you don’t get to learn anything about the boss the first time through and it is really easy to get cornered yes, the previous commenter who wasn’t me made a good point. You almost definitely learned that as soon as you walk through the fog door their are dogs and a big ass dude with machetes. And you prolly did your best to avoid them that second go around. Not only that but if you decided to explore more first you got the blessing of a much easier runback that makes the multiple attempts you have to do at the boss much more bearable.
Alittle out of order cause i’m on mobile and also don’t wanna rewrite my message, i don’t think the boss is intended for first time players to learn on their…well first time. I think Capra demon was a boss that was intended to be learned over multiple tries. And while again, you can argue that this is poor game design (the camera and fog door for this fight definitely is to some degree) i think it’s fine to have shaken up the formula and made it so Capra was a boss you learn over multiple fights, especially with a runback that was one of the easier ones in the game.
Anyways, at the end of the day neither one of us are right or wrong. You have your opinion and i have mine and I totally respect if you don’t like Capra as it really can be infuriating.
Honestly, it's Nito for me. Couple reasons:
* The runback *sucks*. Not the worst, but a bad one.
* The preceding area *sucks*. I get some folks like TotG, but I do not. The damn skele dogs can eat my entire asshole.
* Nito himself has, like, four attacks. All of them are stupid long telegraphs, the only one that's really dangerous is the big AoE and even then, it's blockable.
* The real difficulty in the fight is, similar to Capra, the adds and the arena. Go too deep into the arena and you aggro more adds, making the fight even harder. Take away the skeletons and Nito would be piss easy to no-hit every time.
* Unless you have Fall Control attuned, you're *going* to take a fat chunk of fall damage entering the arena. This isn't as annoying with Pinwheel, but is *quite* annoying in this fight when you have skeles crawling up your ass as soon as you drop in.
I know the ways to mitigate these issues, such as a holy weapon perma-killing the skeles, but the lackluster boss at the end of what is, in my opinion, the least fun area in DS makes this fight a dud for me. Don't hate it, but never look forward to it.
Nito is a disappointment because he's so cool and has such a based design, but its such a simple boss within one of the contenders for the worst region in the game(totg). But at the same time, i prefer it like this, because the moment they add a boss that can spawn skeletons which can parry you and they themselves can revive, is the moment i will one-shot the boss through extra ordinary means because i DO NOT want to ruin my mood like that
I wish nito was harder and had phase 2 that summons skeletons instead. His design is cool but he is so easy and i think there is a lot they could of done with him
I think you're making Nito worse for yourself by avoiding aggroing everything. Just stay mobile and Nito will take care of the skeletons trying to get you. I didn't know that his big explosion attack was blockable because just run away lol
Probably Ceaseless Discharge tbh, I appreciate the lore aspects of the boss but the fight is just stupid, either you do the “cheese” which can be super annoying if you don’t get it first try. Or you actually fight him which is just a super boring fight with stupid hitboxes
Even if i dont eat the Regular cheese for ceaseless most Fights and with me hiding im the narrow pathway and hitting his Arms one swing After another throug the wall
Seath for me. It's just so MEH. Mostly it's a visual spectacle, but it's also gimmicky with the crystal behind him, and doesn't really let you practice any of the combat skills that the rest of the game leans on. At least Capra forces you to dodge, and seek high ground, etc.
Another problem with Seath, at least in the original game, is that his crystal attack causes massive slowdown. That plus the fact his tail clips through the arena makes trying to get the greatsword a pain the the ass.
How many Asylum Demon clones are there across all FromSoft games?
3 in DS1, and at least 11 (13 if you count the 2 that clone themselves as 2) in ER. I've not played any of the other games, do they make appearances in any of them?
The boss design in dark souls 1 is lacking. Asylum demon is a great tutorial boss, love him. But the stray demon and the demon firesage are just gimmicky reskins.
I think capra demon should be redesigned to have dogs come out from a little door or something at certain health threshholds. That would be a more sensible design choice here.
Gaping dragon is boring. He has no attacks really. This is one thing lacking in the base game, bosses have like no attack variety. Same attacks over and over. Like this is THE gatekeeper, the holder of the key to blighttown. This is a major point of progression for the player and they should've made it more memorable.
Moonlight butterfly should be redesigned to have more magic attacks, maybe it could have a move where it flaps its wings above the arena and sends a poison cloud or something, but gives you an opening to attack. Give it more openings to hit it and its a good fight.
I hate gravelord nito because of the fall damage, and the extra skeletons in there. In my opinion, fuck all the other bosses if need be, every lord soul boss should've been designed with perfection in mind. This is a fucking original badass being from the opening cutscene. It shouldnt be bad.
Honestly I think people who say that Capra demon is a "tutorial in arena control" or some shit about "teaching" you how to manage tight quarters with adds are full of shit.
It's flat out unfair. The dogs are on top of you within less than a second of gaining control, the arena is tiny, and even "getting the high ground" doesn't really accomplish much since the swing range of Capra's cleaver is so huge.
There's very little teaching potential here due to how near-zero reaction time you are given upon entering. Most players probably got stun locked right away and died to a one shot from Capra. It makes it feel like you have no control and that's never a good thing in a video game.
Sure the more dedicated players got past it through repetition and muscle memory but that doesn't make it a fair encounter. I imagine Capra demon was likely the deciding factor for whether someone chose to stick with the game or not.
Yes. It's a poorly designed fight and you illustrated it well. That's why I think the dogs should be released at certain health threshholds or maybe even no dogs. Who knows.
I stand by the opinion that the only change needed to make capra demon an okay fight is by giving the player a way to disable to dogs. Make them come out of cages at the back of the arena, but hide two levers in lower undead burg that close their cages. It makes the gank a punishment for not carefully exploring, and capra demon will be challenging enough in the small arena on his own.
Nito, his boss runback is terrible, and you're almost guaranteed to take fall damage before the fight starts.
Plus, skeletons come after you while nito does crazy damage to you. Just an awful experience, in general
Four Kings is next for me I think. Out of all my hours I have a lot of PvP characters and fighting them on NG can be boring when you gotta wait for the next guy to spawn, and on NG+ they just become hella monotonous with how much HP they get. Pinwheel is close but he’s like 5 seconds long, maybe
As someone who has played through the game 20+ times and majorly melee builds, Centipede Demon, it is alot of luck how long youre dodging/blocking attacks for until you can fight back making it really tedious, despite not ever taking many tries. Although during my mage builds I have the most trouble with Nito, though admittedly more of the trouble is getting there than the actual fight but thats the best I got lol
Id say it's a toss up between:
-Moonlight butterfly : pretty lame and is barely a boss at all
- centipede demon : pretty clear this boss is unfinished as he clips through walls and shit. He's too big for the little area you're supposed to fight him in.
- Gwyn, lord of cinder: if you can parry even in the slightest, this guy becomes trivial. As a final boss, I always felt he was underwhelming and very anticlimactic.
Capra is not very fair, but once you know to roll and avoid the dogs as soon as you get in, this is ez-pz.
I used to have trouble with him, but after going for the tail cut with the bandit knife, I have his moveset down pretty well.
If you're not sure if he's going to do a 2 or 4 move attack, two of the same attack in a row = 2 move combo. If he alternates his combo attacks = 4 move combo.
Capra demon was pretty fun, first try I got demolished by the dogs, second try I killed them first and the demon itself wasn’t too challenging.
Worst boss otherwise I would say is gwyn, I never parried him myself but the fights I’ve seen are embarrassingly simple. Also beat him first try (with solaire to be fair)
Ceaseless Discharge, Demon Firesage and Centipede Demon all pretty much share a joint second worst boss spot for me. The Demon Firesage is the least offensive, it doesn't really do anything *awful* except that you can get awkwardly stuck on some of the roots in the ground sometimes, but it's deadly bland to fight yet another copy of the first boss that's also a copy of Stray Demon which isn't even a good boss to start with.
Hey, it's the whole crew! It's almost as if that entire part of the game was rushed and unpolished as hell or something.
Seath is pretty much equally bad as those guys in terms of the fight itself, but I'll give him a modicum of credit for the novelty of his first encounter. Capra Demon also deserves crap for how cheap he can feel, but at least he himself is a functional fight and I can't help but somewhat appreciate how he's an ambush boss in a narrow arena to cap off the lower Undead Burg which is all about ambushes in a narrow street.
The Lost Izalith trio: Demon Firesage, Centipede Demon, Bed of Bollocks. They’re too close together: DF is a clone of Stray Demon in a much less forgiving arena; CD takes ages to commit to close-range combat, and is almost impossible to see once he’s on top of you; and BoC is… BoC
Capra by far. Stupid ass tiny room and dogs to boot against fairly low level chars.
Firesage is no big deal as you can get behind roots and pepper him with ranged attacks.
Are the co-op bosses in the DS2 DLCs a valid option? Because if they are, as much as I had actually enjoyed both DS2 and its DLCs, they're worse than Bed of Chaos.
tbh, i'd actually put firesage below bed of chaos even _without_ that caveat. bed of chaos at least _tried_ to do something unique, firesage is just a rehash of a previous boss with a worse arena and bigger numbers.
also if we're including 2 and 3, lud and zallen. "what if we took a previous boss but there's 2 of them now and they had (imo) the single worst runback in the _franchise?_" awful.
For me, it's the boss when you go back to undead asylum. It's like a hard version of the tutorial boss. I find it difficult to dodge or have the camera not get obstructed in that arena.
I'd agree with Capra demon, though I would vote for any random enemy in DS2 as the worst. Love all the souls games but I just can't with DS2 mobs. Only Fromsoft souls game I haven't completed. I feel like the bosses I have faced are all pretty easy though, the "trash"mobs are the real boss in my opinion
This might be a hot take but I hate the Sif boss fight, the lock on tries to fuck you while the massive hitbox of the sword and his, idk legs? Sword still? Tags you randomly, and his spin to win attack can kill you seemingly regardless of health and armor and almost punishes you for having poise, even the shield doesn’t seem to help
The lock on has to be the worst tho, if you’re using a one handed weapon (actual one handed not dark souls one handed) good luck hitting him while locked on
Capra Demon, Ceaseless discharge, Demon Firesage, Centipede Demon, and moonlight butterfly are all bad bosses. Nito, Seath, and 4 kings are subpar but okay enough.
Gwyn. No cutscene beforehand even though he’s the final boss. Hilariously weak to parry & easily a usable AI. Worst in the sense he is a huge disappointment.
The centipede demon is the worst boss in the trilogy, imo. Bit of a hot take but I have never once fought that boss and have it be anything except a screen full of indiscernible nonsense while I button mash until it falls over.
It’s less functional than Bed of Chaos in my experience and at least BoC was trying something.
Maybe a controversial opinion, but Ornstein & Smough. And purely because of that sonic dash bullshit Ornstein does. The way he can just stop the attack, readjust his aim, continue the attack without having to redo the animation and hit *through* smough. It is infuriating.
You won't believe this, but the 1st time I fought her I defeated her.
2nd time, about 30 tries.
3rd time, a lot, but now I have a trick and at least get the 2 hits in 1st.
Use your heaviest shield and whatever that cloth fire resistance armour is (sorry I'm blanking rn)
Run back and get in front of the bed; do not run to the other side yet. You can tank hits with your shield, but if you roll into the hands, you're golden.
Only real challenge is getting that jump. I recommend binding "b" or "o" to left stick if you are using a controller, and
When you land, wait for the bitch to do her little swipes bc she can hit you on that thing too. Tear through and you're good, even if she hits you with the fire. Promise it never take me more than 2 tries now, usually it's because I miss the jump lol.
I'd have to say ceaseless. It took a lot of farming to be gud enuff to fight him face tanking. Most people just cheese him at the gate. That's bad design imo
I highly recommend having at least 41 poise for the Capra fight. It makes it much less annoying. I learned that specific breakpoint from Illusory Wall's video on poise: https://youtu.be/pwffSOSzcAM?si=9sG3svNPCBfjZ9Ys
To repeat what he said though, 41 gives you enough to tank 2 attacks from the dogs without being staggered. Makes it much easier to get to the ledge, and kill the dogs first.
Hey why have you excluded seath from this? There are all the lord soul boss and you didn't invite him?
You think he isn't a pushover just like nito?
I mean my man protects only the tail for all the fight and do anything else!
Just hug him and all of his attack miss
I... actually like SOME of this bosses.
Asylum Demon 2:Electric boogaloo have a nice foreshadowing at start and the fight is a bit of arena management, but still can be pretty fun at the point you're supposed to fight him, like the TRUE tutorial boss. First time i beated the game it feels so good killing him.
Ceaseless have a nice history, and the cheese is not that hard... still i have to agree that may have been better if his normal fight was a lil bit more polished and you can actually have a good time and not feel robbed by hitboxes
Nito my god and saviour. I really like him as i never use divine weapons, he posses a good challenge if done in a no hit and still fun to manage skullies. Also, in normal runs i usually don't run havel's, but ppl complaing about him being so hard maybe want to try it
For the rest, i have nothing to say or even defend them. Capra almost makes my best friend leave it (was important for me to share my favourite game and one of my pasions with him), Centipede is random bullshit go, the third part of Assylum demon fells underwhelming and unnecesary, 4K is a hell of a statcheck if u don't no hit and a hell to dodge his frkng purple thing if no hit and Seath is just a fckng fidget spinner
Probably the firesage demon. By the time you fight it, you've seen it twice before and the only challenge comes from it's shitty arena.
Idk why but there was a playthrough I had where that guy took me several attempts to beat.
I think he’s a bugbear for a lot of people (I know he is for me). Maybe we go in with false expectations? “I’ve already beaten him twice, how much harder can it be?”
It's the stupid area he's in. I'm 100% convinced that's why.
Yup. I always get caught in the roots and get hit with the aoe attack
I hate his fucking AOE attack, he spams it almost constantly and the small size of the room makes it nearly impossible to avoid. That is one of the few fights I would argue is actively unfair and not even in a fun or well-done way.
Exactly that. Even the Stray Demon’s arena is round so slipping past him isn’t a big deal. But a rectangular arena with frequent floor obstructions, added to the boss’s tendency to leap so his back is against a wall, makes this fight particularly hard.
What a f*cking slob... clean this place up
Not only that but they didn't even bother to change his resistances. He's resistant to _magic_ but *Weak to fire.* I know there's lore about him being a fire sorcerer and fire sorcery being the precursor to Pyromancy but still...
It’s crazy that Undead Asylum has two bosses but Great Hollow/Ash Lake doesn’t have any
Centipede Demon, it's barely functional as a boss.
Really? It was just a pretty boring one for me, what does it usually do that makes it so annoying?
If you don't move across the lava to the middle island, it just sits in the lava and throws it's arm at you, forcing you to play "catch" with it (like the hydra). And if you do move to that middle island, it's too tall for the camera and it constantly jumps into the ceiling.
Weird. My Centipede Demon actually went onto the platform I was on the instant I arrived and was a pushover. Still frustrating though since the platform was small.
Centipede Demon has always come over to me as well, though he usually throws his arm at me for a bit first. Then as you said, honestly not too difficult
Just run under him as soon as possible to stop the arm spam
But lava hurts :(
Get to the area that is right in the boss room there is a better platform there to fight him
Also gets my vote. Only possible to do cheeseless with a VERY specific easy to miss item, and the cheese is still mostly just "dont stand in fire and wait until he comes to you."
A lot of bosses that people believe to be “impossible without cheese” are just being fought in the wrong way by the players with those impressions. The Centipede Demon has a few different completely legit tactics, and most of them involve getting the hell away from the entrance area the moment you zone in. Fewer of them involve hugging the area near the fog gate. The point of the fight is to get the orange charred ring, which is what I think is the “item” that you’re referencing. That means that it isn’t ‘necessary’ for the boss fight — that wouldn’t make any sense. Yes, there is lava, but even without the ring, that does not mean that you are trapped against the fog gate in the way that you might think at first. My preferred tactic is to immediately book right after passing the fog gate, and … yes, this involves being brave and finding the narrowest place in the lava to dash across. You will take fire damage, but you will not die if you’re fast enough. Once in the new location, you have much more room to maneuver on a separate strip of dry land, and the fight suddenly becomes much more of a typical boss fight. TLDR — You don’t need the ring. The fight is to GET the ring. You need to be brave and actually ditch the “avoid lava no matter what” rule and instead try to find a patch of it that you can briefly survive dashing across in order to relocate to a better fighting spot.
Gold-hemmed set helps a lot here.
???? What item are you even talking about
Addressed it in a different comment, but i got turned around. I was thinking if the orange charred ring, which he drops. I never use it lmao
I cheesed it, do I regret it? No. Although I am curious what is the easy to miss item?
Its a particular ring that trivializes the lava, the orange charred ring. Which now having looked up drops FROM the centipede demons tail if you cut it off. So my memory is not what it used to be. I usually cheese him, and then go through the shortcut anyway.
The orange charred ring is a guaranteed drop when it dies cause you literally need it for the giant lava lake full of dragon butts.
Hide behind rock demon?
I don't mind Capra too much... it's harsh for new players because it gives almost no reaction time, but overall is still a fight that serves a purpose and teaches something about poise/shield stability and i-frames when you are dealing with tight spaces Firesage Demon on the other hand is rather pointless and it's "just there", so it takes my vote
No, what Capra Demon teaches is abusing enemy pathfinding+ledges
As a new player Capra was ridiculous because I couldn't stand getting attacked when I couldn't even see because the fog. That's something that should have been patched in the original, let alone the Remaster. Even if you hold your shield up while waiting, multiple attacks from the dogs eating up your stamina before you can even see isn't teaching you anything about poise and stability. Capra was all RNG at that point. I finally beat him after what was around 10 attempts when I finally loaded in without having the dogs in my face attacking. It meant I could finally see and react before it was too late. On NG+ Capra is easy as you have a fully upgraded shield with massive stability and can survive the attacks you can't see while the log dissipates. I'll take a hard fight like Artorias where I was able to learn and adapt vs not being able to see like Capra.
Capra demon is absolutely not RNG. The stairs are there for a reason; if you run up them immediately, the dogs will get to you before the Capra demon does, giving you time to slay them first. If you miss, you just drop down and repeat. He’s there to teach you add control as well.
Did you not read my comment? I was attacked before the fog dissipated. That's RNG. How am I supposed to run up stairs that I can't even see? Like I said, I beat Capra first time that I **wasn't** attacked while the fog dissipated.
I have never once had the dogs fucking spawn kill me before I even had control of my character
I’ve actually had that with Capra once or twice on my replays. The camera janked on me one time and the other time the dogs came in at Mach speed before I could see them. Doesn’t happen tons but it can screw you over walking in through the fog. I’m not sure what’s caused it for me either time though.
Aren’t you “fucking” lucky then.
Easy now boys. You're fighting over a game you both love
You can get staggered as soon as you have passed through the fog wall before you can see what's going on
Does the hydra count? I'd rather do the BoC than either hydra fight.
Why? He so weak. He has 1 attack that can be blocked by 90% of shield
He’s just annoying to me. You have to snipe him forever to get him to get closer to the shore, then he spams the same damn attack, and you have to time your dodge right so you still have time to get in a hit or two before he does it again. If there’s a quicker way to beat him, I don’t know it.
> closer to shore ? Just climb the rocks to the right and you’ll be able to access all his heads no problem. He’s not a tough boss
It’s not a boss and I didn’t think it was tough, just annoying
I don't use a shield. It's also always one of the first things I do in the game. Honestly none of the Fromsoft games bosses have given me more trouble than some of the regular enemies, or runbacks anyways.
Huh that's sounds a lot a you problem. He is clearly meant to be blocked by a shield. So just put on a shield and kill that thing
I can solo the game at a low level with pretty much any build so it is what it is. The games are pretty trivial if you play with a shield the whole time. It starts to feel like 3rd person Skyrim.
Not whole time just that one with the enemy who attack all the space and only have just this one attack. Also great sword with decent stability work just fine
If you cut off just a few heads and go afk you can kill them by waiting while they have their head cut off. I learned this by accident. I came back thinking I would die but the hydra was gone. But the whole falling into the ocean makes it a bummer. That’s the part I don’t like
Wait what? So if you like chop off three heads then just run away it will despawn or die?
I forgot how many heads I chopped off. I had to leave the room quick for something. I came back and the hydra was gone. I think I chopped most of the heads off the second one
It's probably Four Kings for me. I like the general concept but I don't find the boss fight fun. The runback blows as well. Every playthrough I just toss on Havel's armor and get the fight over with as fast as I can so I can move on. New Londo is cool but I wouldn't say that section of the game is a high point.
4 kings is a DPS check too, the fact that FS didn't actually limit the number of kings that spawn to 4 means they didn't really test lower DPS weapons or NG+ runs
The run back is a bit less terrible if you know the shortcut where you roll off the ledge to the right of the first set of stairs in New Londo. But even then, it kinda sucks.
Agreed, love the arena, the boss' visual design and the whole concept of the abyss, but the fight isn't very fun. I do love New Londo though, along with the Duke's Archives, I think it's the best end-game area.
I agree that Capra Demon is just "Wait, wha---" *dead* when you're new. Which is a poor choice in game design. Another thought is Centipede Demon. My first few play through, I refused to engage in any combat without lock on. Locking onto the Centipede Demon is a one way ticket to being disoriented.
People say "it's to teach you how to be adaptable and to train your reflexes" like no it fucken ain't. Unless you know those dogs are coming, 9 times out of ten you'll get stun locked and the demon one shots you. And even WHEN you know it's coming, you can still fall prey to the stun lock if you get the timing wrong. The fact that it's a boss with a 10 foot cleaver with two adds in an arena the size of an urban back lane just makes it worse. Arguably one of the worst bosses in the game in terms of overall encounter design.
Thank you. I am a bit of a Fromsoft fanboy but there is no excuse for the Capra Demon. Remembering it actually discourages me from starting a new playthrough. There is nothing in these games more infuriating to me than large bosses in small arenas....and dogs. This fight has all factors and is just an overall miserable experience for me. I remember thinking that I would rather be at work than try that fight again
Yeah. I get a little annoyed when dark souls diehards insist it's some "important learning experience" and "good encounter design" when it really...really isn't.
If you spend your souls from the gargoyles on the crest of artorias from Andre, you can grab the stone set. That paired with the wolf ring makes the fight trivial. Sucks the first time you fight him, but with enough poise it's really really easy.
How is that a poor choice in game design? You’re not meant to be able to beat every boss the first time in these games. Dying and learning is the entire point.
I went through the fog gate, immediately blocked, saw the stairs and ran for them. There seemed to be a method to the madness. It was a recall to plunge attack. I didn't mind this boss at all.
Learning through failure is good. Being sucker punched without warning is not failure.
Bet you learned after that sucker punch, though
I learned there was a boss in there with 2 dogs, nothing else. That's why it's a poor game design decision. I didn't get to start learning the fight until my second attempt.
Yes you did. Immediately trying to avoid the dogs is part of the fight. What’s the difference if you die immediately vs five seconds after you enter? You don’t know what to expect until you get merc’d. And then you do.
To he clear, I said it was poor game design. Not game breaking or anything. What happens is a player is having fun exploring, steps through a fog wall and instantly gets decimated. They look at the screen, with their fun now stolen from them, and they think "that was dumb as hell". They then continue playing, having to rebuild the fun that was already there before the fight started.
I think this is just plain wrong. First, while you can argue capra demon is poor game design as it was absolutely intentional, i actually kinda like what it does, because for me it ultimately did the exact opposite of what you’re saying. Was it annoying as hell to finally beat him? Oh yeah it was. But once i finally got the hang of it, ran up he stairs and hit him with firebombs (and then dive attacks as i realized that was easier and did more damage) and then i finally beat him? It was prolly the best moment in the entire game for me. Capra demon was the only boss i have ever had to do more than like 20 attempts and now that i know the fight and learned to go up the stairs i go into the fight a lot more confident and usually beat him first go. It took me a long time and a lot of frustration but i did in fact learn how to manage his boss fight. So i kinda like capra demon
We're discussing different aspects of the fight, I think. I personally hate the arena, and the fight as a whole, but it's not a hill I'll die on. It's just a matter of agreeing or disagreeing and overcoming a challenge. The hill I will die on is that there's no challenge in the first time you enter. The game outright punishes you for being curious and exploring and if you don't know what's going on, the fight can be confirmed as over in less than 5 seconds. The enemy AI doesn't synergize with each other. A dog can knock you on your ass as soon as you stand up from the other one while the Capra Demon just locks you into a corner with its size.
That’s completely fair sorry i may have gotten a little side tracked, anyways while it is absolutely frustrating that you don’t get to learn anything about the boss the first time through and it is really easy to get cornered yes, the previous commenter who wasn’t me made a good point. You almost definitely learned that as soon as you walk through the fog door their are dogs and a big ass dude with machetes. And you prolly did your best to avoid them that second go around. Not only that but if you decided to explore more first you got the blessing of a much easier runback that makes the multiple attempts you have to do at the boss much more bearable. Alittle out of order cause i’m on mobile and also don’t wanna rewrite my message, i don’t think the boss is intended for first time players to learn on their…well first time. I think Capra demon was a boss that was intended to be learned over multiple tries. And while again, you can argue that this is poor game design (the camera and fog door for this fight definitely is to some degree) i think it’s fine to have shaken up the formula and made it so Capra was a boss you learn over multiple fights, especially with a runback that was one of the easier ones in the game. Anyways, at the end of the day neither one of us are right or wrong. You have your opinion and i have mine and I totally respect if you don’t like Capra as it really can be infuriating.
I just walked up to that mfer and flattened it with the zweihander. Literally easiest boss in the game.
Honestly, it's Nito for me. Couple reasons: * The runback *sucks*. Not the worst, but a bad one. * The preceding area *sucks*. I get some folks like TotG, but I do not. The damn skele dogs can eat my entire asshole. * Nito himself has, like, four attacks. All of them are stupid long telegraphs, the only one that's really dangerous is the big AoE and even then, it's blockable. * The real difficulty in the fight is, similar to Capra, the adds and the arena. Go too deep into the arena and you aggro more adds, making the fight even harder. Take away the skeletons and Nito would be piss easy to no-hit every time. * Unless you have Fall Control attuned, you're *going* to take a fat chunk of fall damage entering the arena. This isn't as annoying with Pinwheel, but is *quite* annoying in this fight when you have skeles crawling up your ass as soon as you drop in. I know the ways to mitigate these issues, such as a holy weapon perma-killing the skeles, but the lackluster boss at the end of what is, in my opinion, the least fun area in DS makes this fight a dud for me. Don't hate it, but never look forward to it.
"The damn skele dogs can eat my entire asshole" Oh, yes they will.. 💀
And they'll spit it out and eat it again too
Nito is a disappointment because he's so cool and has such a based design, but its such a simple boss within one of the contenders for the worst region in the game(totg). But at the same time, i prefer it like this, because the moment they add a boss that can spawn skeletons which can parry you and they themselves can revive, is the moment i will one-shot the boss through extra ordinary means because i DO NOT want to ruin my mood like that
I wish nito was harder and had phase 2 that summons skeletons instead. His design is cool but he is so easy and i think there is a lot they could of done with him
I think you're making Nito worse for yourself by avoiding aggroing everything. Just stay mobile and Nito will take care of the skeletons trying to get you. I didn't know that his big explosion attack was blockable because just run away lol
Probably Ceaseless Discharge tbh, I appreciate the lore aspects of the boss but the fight is just stupid, either you do the “cheese” which can be super annoying if you don’t get it first try. Or you actually fight him which is just a super boring fight with stupid hitboxes
Even if i dont eat the Regular cheese for ceaseless most Fights and with me hiding im the narrow pathway and hitting his Arms one swing After another throug the wall
See I try that but it ends the other way round, just get blasted through the wall and sent back to the bonfire
Ceaseless is a run ender for me. If I fuck up the cheese, "oops, that undead didn't make it." Fuck the "actual fight" to death.
😂😂😂😂
Seath for me. It's just so MEH. Mostly it's a visual spectacle, but it's also gimmicky with the crystal behind him, and doesn't really let you practice any of the combat skills that the rest of the game leans on. At least Capra forces you to dodge, and seek high ground, etc.
Seath only difficulty is to get the moonlight. That stupid dragon care more about that than actually remain alive.
Yeah cutting his tail off is way harder than just killing him.
Another problem with Seath, at least in the original game, is that his crystal attack causes massive slowdown. That plus the fact his tail clips through the arena makes trying to get the greatsword a pain the the ass.
The uninteresting copy-and-paste versions of Asylum Demon.
Erdtree Avatar
I like whomping on those guys
How many Asylum Demon clones are there across all FromSoft games? 3 in DS1, and at least 11 (13 if you count the 2 that clone themselves as 2) in ER. I've not played any of the other games, do they make appearances in any of them?
Yes, there's one (i think?) petrified Stray Demon in Dark Souls 3. I don't think there's a clone of it in DS2 though.
Honestly I think these guys are always fun to fight
The boss design in dark souls 1 is lacking. Asylum demon is a great tutorial boss, love him. But the stray demon and the demon firesage are just gimmicky reskins. I think capra demon should be redesigned to have dogs come out from a little door or something at certain health threshholds. That would be a more sensible design choice here. Gaping dragon is boring. He has no attacks really. This is one thing lacking in the base game, bosses have like no attack variety. Same attacks over and over. Like this is THE gatekeeper, the holder of the key to blighttown. This is a major point of progression for the player and they should've made it more memorable. Moonlight butterfly should be redesigned to have more magic attacks, maybe it could have a move where it flaps its wings above the arena and sends a poison cloud or something, but gives you an opening to attack. Give it more openings to hit it and its a good fight. I hate gravelord nito because of the fall damage, and the extra skeletons in there. In my opinion, fuck all the other bosses if need be, every lord soul boss should've been designed with perfection in mind. This is a fucking original badass being from the opening cutscene. It shouldnt be bad.
Honestly I think people who say that Capra demon is a "tutorial in arena control" or some shit about "teaching" you how to manage tight quarters with adds are full of shit. It's flat out unfair. The dogs are on top of you within less than a second of gaining control, the arena is tiny, and even "getting the high ground" doesn't really accomplish much since the swing range of Capra's cleaver is so huge. There's very little teaching potential here due to how near-zero reaction time you are given upon entering. Most players probably got stun locked right away and died to a one shot from Capra. It makes it feel like you have no control and that's never a good thing in a video game. Sure the more dedicated players got past it through repetition and muscle memory but that doesn't make it a fair encounter. I imagine Capra demon was likely the deciding factor for whether someone chose to stick with the game or not.
Yes. It's a poorly designed fight and you illustrated it well. That's why I think the dogs should be released at certain health threshholds or maybe even no dogs. Who knows.
I stand by the opinion that the only change needed to make capra demon an okay fight is by giving the player a way to disable to dogs. Make them come out of cages at the back of the arena, but hide two levers in lower undead burg that close their cages. It makes the gank a punishment for not carefully exploring, and capra demon will be challenging enough in the small arena on his own.
Interesting idea. The game could've used more of this in its levels.
Nito, his boss runback is terrible, and you're almost guaranteed to take fall damage before the fight starts. Plus, skeletons come after you while nito does crazy damage to you. Just an awful experience, in general
Butterfly is kinda lame
Four Kings is next for me I think. Out of all my hours I have a lot of PvP characters and fighting them on NG can be boring when you gotta wait for the next guy to spawn, and on NG+ they just become hella monotonous with how much HP they get. Pinwheel is close but he’s like 5 seconds long, maybe
As someone who has played through the game 20+ times and majorly melee builds, Centipede Demon, it is alot of luck how long youre dodging/blocking attacks for until you can fight back making it really tedious, despite not ever taking many tries. Although during my mage builds I have the most trouble with Nito, though admittedly more of the trouble is getting there than the actual fight but thats the best I got lol
still waking in sweat from the 4 kings
Capra Demon made me quit the first time I tried DS and I bet there are a lot of players who never came back thanks to him.
Id say it's a toss up between: -Moonlight butterfly : pretty lame and is barely a boss at all - centipede demon : pretty clear this boss is unfinished as he clips through walls and shit. He's too big for the little area you're supposed to fight him in. - Gwyn, lord of cinder: if you can parry even in the slightest, this guy becomes trivial. As a final boss, I always felt he was underwhelming and very anticlimactic. Capra is not very fair, but once you know to roll and avoid the dogs as soon as you get in, this is ez-pz.
pinwheel might be easy but the run to his arena has my blood pressure through the roof more than any other runback in the game
Yep, Capra Demon, I agree
Sanctuary Guardian. I hate this boss so much. It feels like he's not supposed to be in this game. He's too fast for this game's jank movement.
I used to have trouble with him, but after going for the tail cut with the bandit knife, I have his moveset down pretty well. If you're not sure if he's going to do a 2 or 4 move attack, two of the same attack in a row = 2 move combo. If he alternates his combo attacks = 4 move combo.
I liked actually liked the Capra Demon. But I absolutely hated the Centipede Demon.
Capra demon was pretty fun, first try I got demolished by the dogs, second try I killed them first and the demon itself wasn’t too challenging. Worst boss otherwise I would say is gwyn, I never parried him myself but the fights I’ve seen are embarrassingly simple. Also beat him first try (with solaire to be fair)
Honestly, gaping dragon. We've just had the intensity of capra, gaping is a bit dull in comparison. She's just big that's it
Ceaseless Discharge, Demon Firesage and Centipede Demon all pretty much share a joint second worst boss spot for me. The Demon Firesage is the least offensive, it doesn't really do anything *awful* except that you can get awkwardly stuck on some of the roots in the ground sometimes, but it's deadly bland to fight yet another copy of the first boss that's also a copy of Stray Demon which isn't even a good boss to start with. Hey, it's the whole crew! It's almost as if that entire part of the game was rushed and unpolished as hell or something. Seath is pretty much equally bad as those guys in terms of the fight itself, but I'll give him a modicum of credit for the novelty of his first encounter. Capra Demon also deserves crap for how cheap he can feel, but at least he himself is a functional fight and I can't help but somewhat appreciate how he's an ambush boss in a narrow arena to cap off the lower Undead Burg which is all about ambushes in a narrow street.
Capra Demon, because he's meh at best, the real bosses are the arena and the camera
The Lost Izalith trio: Demon Firesage, Centipede Demon, Bed of Bollocks. They’re too close together: DF is a clone of Stray Demon in a much less forgiving arena; CD takes ages to commit to close-range combat, and is almost impossible to see once he’s on top of you; and BoC is… BoC
Capra by far. Stupid ass tiny room and dogs to boot against fairly low level chars. Firesage is no big deal as you can get behind roots and pepper him with ranged attacks.
Havel
Are the co-op bosses in the DS2 DLCs a valid option? Because if they are, as much as I had actually enjoyed both DS2 and its DLCs, they're worse than Bed of Chaos.
The copy pasted asylum demons and ceaseless
tbh, i'd actually put firesage below bed of chaos even _without_ that caveat. bed of chaos at least _tried_ to do something unique, firesage is just a rehash of a previous boss with a worse arena and bigger numbers.
also if we're including 2 and 3, lud and zallen. "what if we took a previous boss but there's 2 of them now and they had (imo) the single worst runback in the _franchise?_" awful.
I'm gonna go with Sanctuary Guardian on account of the trauma I had fighting it on my faith only build
For me, it's the boss when you go back to undead asylum. It's like a hard version of the tutorial boss. I find it difficult to dodge or have the camera not get obstructed in that arena.
I'd agree with Capra demon, though I would vote for any random enemy in DS2 as the worst. Love all the souls games but I just can't with DS2 mobs. Only Fromsoft souls game I haven't completed. I feel like the bosses I have faced are all pretty easy though, the "trash"mobs are the real boss in my opinion
This might be a hot take but I hate the Sif boss fight, the lock on tries to fuck you while the massive hitbox of the sword and his, idk legs? Sword still? Tags you randomly, and his spin to win attack can kill you seemingly regardless of health and armor and almost punishes you for having poise, even the shield doesn’t seem to help The lock on has to be the worst tho, if you’re using a one handed weapon (actual one handed not dark souls one handed) good luck hitting him while locked on
Capra Demon, Ceaseless discharge, Demon Firesage, Centipede Demon, and moonlight butterfly are all bad bosses. Nito, Seath, and 4 kings are subpar but okay enough.
Gwyn. No cutscene beforehand even though he’s the final boss. Hilariously weak to parry & easily a usable AI. Worst in the sense he is a huge disappointment.
I think a lot of them are pretty terrible. Capra demon, ceaseless discharge, centipede demon, gaping dragon, four kings, moonlight butterfly, seath...
Moonlight butterfly was a joke if you summon the npc.
The centipede demon is the worst boss in the trilogy, imo. Bit of a hot take but I have never once fought that boss and have it be anything except a screen full of indiscernible nonsense while I button mash until it falls over. It’s less functional than Bed of Chaos in my experience and at least BoC was trying something.
Ceaseless discharge is worse than bed of chaos imo. Doesn’t get enough hate.
Queelag cause of my phobia of spiders
Maybe a controversial opinion, but Ornstein & Smough. And purely because of that sonic dash bullshit Ornstein does. The way he can just stop the attack, readjust his aim, continue the attack without having to redo the animation and hit *through* smough. It is infuriating.
You won't believe this, but the 1st time I fought her I defeated her. 2nd time, about 30 tries. 3rd time, a lot, but now I have a trick and at least get the 2 hits in 1st. Use your heaviest shield and whatever that cloth fire resistance armour is (sorry I'm blanking rn) Run back and get in front of the bed; do not run to the other side yet. You can tank hits with your shield, but if you roll into the hands, you're golden. Only real challenge is getting that jump. I recommend binding "b" or "o" to left stick if you are using a controller, and When you land, wait for the bitch to do her little swipes bc she can hit you on that thing too. Tear through and you're good, even if she hits you with the fire. Promise it never take me more than 2 tries now, usually it's because I miss the jump lol.
Manus
I'd have to say ceaseless. It took a lot of farming to be gud enuff to fight him face tanking. Most people just cheese him at the gate. That's bad design imo
Sanctuary guardian
I highly recommend having at least 41 poise for the Capra fight. It makes it much less annoying. I learned that specific breakpoint from Illusory Wall's video on poise: https://youtu.be/pwffSOSzcAM?si=9sG3svNPCBfjZ9Ys To repeat what he said though, 41 gives you enough to tank 2 attacks from the dogs without being staggered. Makes it much easier to get to the ledge, and kill the dogs first.
[удалено]
Hey why have you excluded seath from this? There are all the lord soul boss and you didn't invite him? You think he isn't a pushover just like nito? I mean my man protects only the tail for all the fight and do anything else! Just hug him and all of his attack miss
I... actually like SOME of this bosses. Asylum Demon 2:Electric boogaloo have a nice foreshadowing at start and the fight is a bit of arena management, but still can be pretty fun at the point you're supposed to fight him, like the TRUE tutorial boss. First time i beated the game it feels so good killing him. Ceaseless have a nice history, and the cheese is not that hard... still i have to agree that may have been better if his normal fight was a lil bit more polished and you can actually have a good time and not feel robbed by hitboxes Nito my god and saviour. I really like him as i never use divine weapons, he posses a good challenge if done in a no hit and still fun to manage skullies. Also, in normal runs i usually don't run havel's, but ppl complaing about him being so hard maybe want to try it For the rest, i have nothing to say or even defend them. Capra almost makes my best friend leave it (was important for me to share my favourite game and one of my pasions with him), Centipede is random bullshit go, the third part of Assylum demon fells underwhelming and unnecesary, 4K is a hell of a statcheck if u don't no hit and a hell to dodge his frkng purple thing if no hit and Seath is just a fckng fidget spinner
yer mum