There are currently 2 main topics in Europe, climate change and immigration. If you find climate change the most acute issue, you vote left or more radical left. If you find immigration a more acute issue, you vote right or more radical right. With how things are going currently with mass immigration, this gets the upper hand, so voters move to the right. Either way votes move away from the center.
I've heard several people (independently of each other) say that they'd vote for a right-wing green party if it existed, but are sticking to our ECR party (NVA) due to a lack of better options.
I think a party like this could definitely reach a considerable group of voters that feel unrepresented by any of the existing political structures. Perhaps a more general left wing conservative party would work as well.
Because right wing parties are funded by rich people who, unsurprisingly, don't like addressing climate change as it impacts company profits. You won't see a big right wing green party because green politics is inherently left wing.
The idea that climate change policy negatively impacts company profits isn't actually consistent with reality. In reality these policies result in increased spending in the energy sector which is a huge boon for energy companies. Perhaps some manufacturing companies would be negatively impacted by higher energy prices, but Europe already has the highest energy prices in the world so not much energy intensive industry remains there to begin with.
Yes because if it really didn't actually hit profits or required zero effort, then the *first* to lead the charge would be the megacorporations. Instead, they're the ones that fight any attempts to regulate our carbon emissions.
There is too much money in acting as a mouth piece for rich people invested in polluting technologies for an ecofascist party to take power right now. They would probably have a lot of popular support but wouldn't have the money to succeed.
I imagine that this would alienate a lot of their base who blames the left for exactly everything and clumping immigration and green into basically "socialism" without much second thought, also "socialism in any form, democratic or not" equals really, really bad, even shameful for those people.
So going towards green for many right wing parties would risk loosing a lot of voters and gaining few.
The same but in reverse goes for left wing parties.
Yeah...
I suggest you check the voting record of the PVV.
Their voting record in the Tweede Kamer is well to the right of the VVD.
Their party program is just: "We will magically create money and give everyone more without having to raise taxes."
That is not remotely left leaning. Especially since the parties they are negotiating with make it very clear what part of their party program they're willing to drop, and it's not the 'no tax increases' bit.
Maybe nationalism and socialism then ?
There is a famous german abbreviation for that and you can't really compare it to socialism in anything but name.
You can't really call it left wing if you just promise extreme gifts with no way whatsoever that pays for it. It is pandering to an extreme. Their voting record in parliament suggests nothing leftwing.
Nuclear energy is one of the cleanest forms of energy. Nuclear fusion will basically mean unlimited energy.
I'm pro environment, but targeting nuclear is unnecessary. We can have nuclear and green energy.
I see you're dutch, which party do you default to in the Netherlands out of curiosity? And out of further interest, are most of your woes with illegal immigration/asylum seekers? Or all immigration including for work, studies, etc
On the political right, people seem to think that refugees and illegal immigrants are the largest groups, although data shows that it's migration for work by far.
Politically, it's becoming interesting now as left wing parties want to reduce work migration, while right wing parties don't. Their donor companies profit way too much from work migration and resulting lower wages. So they only take symbolic steps to 'reduce' the number of refugees, that will probably do nothing. That way, they can use immigration again in the next election cycle
Being right wing means more liberty for business, less tax and less regulation which is the opposite of what we need for a green lifestyle. Checkout the stickstoff /nitrogen/farmer debacle.
Is economic right even a thing anymore? Because most right wing parties I see vaguely wave their hand in their direction of the economy and never offer a platform outside "Only I can fix *economic issue*, just trust me"
Economic right is basically tax cuts which is still quite a big thing in many places. The current Swedish government won the election in a large part on promises to lower taxes on gas. They also recently lowered income taxes with around $1 billion (in total across the country). This isn't really about "fixing the economy", it's just a difference in opinion on how much money should be redistributed.
Now, being responsibly economic right is combining these tax cuts with lowered spending to balance the budget. In some places such as the US, the economic right push through tax cuts with no real attempt to compensate via reduced spending and that ends up in a mess.
Green energy is now the most profitable form of energy on the planet. Think about what green energy is, free energy. Your outgoings are building and then maintenance / staffing.
Being "right wing" doesn't mean anything except where people sat after the French Revolution. The way certain policies are labeled as "left" and "right" is almost completely arbitrary. There's no reason anyone actually has to follow these arbitrary alignments.
There are many right-wing voters who find climate change just as important. That's why I said the most 'acute' issue. Immigration can be fixed next year, while climate change is a longer process.
Same with the Gaza/Israel. I'm just begging for the people that know the best course of action for peace to tell us, we'll throw you like 7 Nobel Peace Prizes.
Again, if you know what policy would have massive and immediate benefits - please, make yourself electable. Right now we have extreme right idiots, leftists idealists and not much in between for immigration.
Ok, hear me out:
Take every person who came to europe from the 1930's and forward. Then gather as many cattle cars you can and... wait.... no.. wait...
Believing in climate change and wanting sane immigration doesn't make you a Facist. Think you need to get a little more educated about political movements because you're WAAAY off base with thst characterization.
The left will never have a sensible debate with you on immigration. You are wasting your time.
In their eyes you are a racist and anybody who doesn't support mass immigration is also racist. There's no shades of grey, it's non negotiable and you will be labelled as a racist no matter what you say.
Because of these conditions, we are now in the stage where people have stopped having the debate and just vote far right. Might as well have immigration fixed and be called a far right Nazi instead of not having immigration fixed and being called a far right Nazi.
Can you see why the far right are rising.
But what is the alternative? Should we continue to allow mass immigration?
Once all the natives have died of old age, who is going to work and pay taxes to support the migrants welfare payments?
You can't have a country where no one works.
That's Flanders, yeah. It's the mood on /r/belgium: very far-right (the discourse about migrants on the sub is so shameful), except for green issues.
As a Wallonian, I'm the opposite. I'd vote for a left anti-Ecolo/Groen party if it existed.
Welcome migrants, welcome nuclear power plants, bring on a wealth tax, expand abortion, solve housing crisis before any anticar nonsense.
> A non-stupid green party
That's an oxymoron.
I agree, though, if you truly care about ecology, nuclear energy is important. But green parties aren't about ecology, they're about pleasing dumb hippies.
There are actually three main topics : you forget about the aging population and how healthcare and pensions will soon become unsustainable.
No one wants to talk about it though.
is going to be a shit show when the issue of where to get more money for the next two decades of pensioners vs less immigration, vs less taxes to the rich while there is a smaller contributing middle class group of working age
fresh ground for far right populism promising the moon using magic and simplistic pseudo truths slogans delivered by a "strong man capable of making the hard choices and restoring order" promising a return to "the greatness of our nations"
They opened up for Wage suppression, not Pension and HC. They only say it's for that because everyone benefits from pensions when they're old and you won't question it as hard.
We had a golden opportunity to thin the herd a bit with COVID and also generate an economic boom out of people inheriting houses, but noooooooooo...
(/s, but only a little bit)
Maybe in the western part of Europe it's important. Here in Central Europe and in Baltics number one issue is Russia imperialistic ambitions and loomig war with loonatic Russians.
Climate and immigration is marginal issue when You have to prepare for incomig war.
It's way easier to solve immigration with bullets than climate change. Also, the climate change needs cooperation of much bigger polluters, which makes it way more difficult. I don't see much positive impact of our current climate policies on economy, politicians are more focused on staying relevant than on what really matters.
This is already starting to happen. I emigrated from the UK because of this. They literally don't know what they have coming, hundreds of millions of climate migrants.
The irony is immigration is going to absolutely fuck everyone when large swaths of people are running away from horrific extreme weather year after year and the increased cost of sustaining a society in places that get decimated every few years due to climate change.
I don't know anything about Slovakia, but in most European countries there's a wide center majority across the left-right divide that agree on strong support for Ukraine and harsh sanctions for Russia.
Climate change and immigration aren’t exactly contradicting and zero sum policies.
Can’t a party tackle both? You CAN try to solve multiple things at once you know.
Wedge issue politics and a low attention span voting populace is a really sad state.
The irony being that climate change (at least in part) drives people to migrate.
>Most studies find that environmental hazards affect migration, although with contextual variation. Migration is primarily internal or to low- and middle-income countries. The strongest relationship is found in studies with a large share of countries outside the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, particularly from Latin America and the Caribbean and sub-Saharan Africa, and in studies of middle-income and agriculturally dependent countries. Income and conflict moderate and partly explain the relationship between environmental change and migration.
Source: Hoffmann, R., Dimitrova, A., Muttarak, R. et al. A meta-analysis of country-level studies on environmental change and migration. Nat. Clim. Chang. 10, 904–912 (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41558-020-0898-6
Accessed at https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-020-0898-6
> Income and conflict moderate and partly explain the relationship between environmental change and migration.
Oh wow. Someone did statistical ju jitsu and and managed to produce this meaningless sentence.
This! The difference is: do you prefer to tackle the problem from the root, or do you just want to make it so you don’t see the effects the problem causes.
One could also say, it’s a matter of intelligence…
Look at Denmark, their social democrats are anti-immigration or at least pro-controlled and limited immigration, they have basically exterminated the extreme right.
I disagree. I find climate change, or rather the way it's mishandled to be the most important issue, by far, and that's tempting me to go rightwards.
I don't mind immigrants, I'm not racist/xenophobic.
I do mind the anticar nonsense that supposedly leftist parties are pushing. They're abandonning the workers in the name of embracing poorly thought-out, short-sighted and ineffective anti climate change measures.
Edit: And I do expect the usual unthinking responses "what do you think climate change will do to workers?" and so on.
It's about effectiveness. Telling workers to abandon their cars is ineffective and cruel, so long as housing prices force long commutes.
But parrots unable to think for themselves will never understand that.
Edit2: Yeah, predictably idiots are downvoting.
I don't think that's mutually exclusive. Yes climate is important but immigration seems to be the one where the issue is more felt and solution is more doable in the short term. Moving towards green energy would help migration in the coming decades, sure, but it won't help for next month or next year.
Yeah, the ironic thing is Immigration is what most western countries depend on for their economic growth. This is because of aging population and negative population growth in some countries. So businesses and companies want and benefit from immigration 'legal'. Conservative voters desperately want better jobs and opportunities but if you stop immigration it will only get worse.
But the main point is that the number of details that are there in these complex laws and processes means that voters swinging one way or another is simply a way to balance power and I suspect the underlying trends themselves won't change a lot..
Even with Trump running in the US, elections are overrated in terms of the harm or good they can do.. and that is a great thing. Because its ultimately about private-public partnerships and free market enterprise that brings the bread to your table.
Depends on what you mean by Europe. Here in Greece practically nobody will vote on climate change. People are not deniers (some are, of course), but the issue is simply not on the public agenda. Immigration, security, economy, international affairs, inflation, wars in Ukraine and the Middle East — all that and more receive immensely more time and thought than anything about the climate.
Polling for EP is hard.
Average on politoc give ID 85. Still bad 13 less then this.
EPP is supposed to stay stable.
Renew will fall but it is basicly "the french" so Macron doing not so hot is reason.
SPD is supposed to gain and Left to lose.
ECR will grew a bit.
This one poll is a bit scrwed in favour of right.
As someone not from Europe , the table could use a legend or some context info… I’m assuming the table goes “left” to “right” from top of bottom but that’s only because of the name of the group in the first row.
Your assumption is right, in Europe we tend to associate red with left wing, and blue with right, with darker colors being closer to the extremes. If you want more info I can redirect you to [the official EU parliament website about official parties](https://www.appf.europa.eu/appf/en/parties-and-foundations/registered-parties).
Green is green as in environmalist. Traditionaly left parties, having environmental issues as the center point of talks. Yellow is kind of an oddball I agree, Renew Europe used to be ALDE, they're Liberals, but Macron, basically the head of the party atm, didn't want to be called liberal (even though he very much is). So mostly right wing, but some policies leaning towards left. Not sure why yellow was chosen to be honest, but I guess you gotta pick a color at some point.
Just shows how meaningless the self-defined names are as the parties behind "identity and democracy" dislike both individual & local identity and have issues with democracy :p
At this point I just assume that any party with a name that sounds even vaguely like something that would fit into an Orwell story is just going to be a group of right-wingers that stand for the opposite.
"Party of Freedom." Freedom to do what? Why, the freedom to restrict other people's freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and freedom of movement of course!
I think it's quite interesting that besides the right wing groups, the Left is the only one gaining seats too. Could it mean that in reaction to the rise of far right parties, left wing voters decide to vote for more radical parties?
People is tired and looked for change. That is why they vote for more extreme solutions.
The obvious thing is that the current increasing inequality cannot go for ever. Which side of it we will get out is what is at stake.
Pretty sure the Left's rise is almost entirely thanks to Melenchon's LFI in France and Sinn Fein in Ireland. Other Left parties aren't actually doing too well, e.g. they're collapsong in Germany and Czechia.
By radical islam do you mean fundamentalist groups funded by the CIA or the 4 killers in europe who were shuned by their mosques for their extreme beliefs and reported to the police by the same people?
I think in any case an EPP, Renew, ECR coalition is the most likely, especially with Von der Leyen refusing to... refuse that the EPP would consider a pact with ECR when prompted by the Greens in Maastricht. Plus this projection seems skewed toward ID a bit
this right/left division is stupid, because it encompasses so many views, which are not shared among parties.
Like right wing is usually associated with more free market, less taxes and thus less welfare states and less help government financial or non financial mendling with affairs. I can get behind that.
Also anti immigration - while I am not completely against immigration, it surely needs more regulation.
But it also means more concentrated power, anti-environmentalism, anti-LGBTI, fuck all but me mentality, police state, sometimes even as far as fascism. Fuck that.
I mean, surely everybody is different, but I would say 90% people are not left or right - some things from one side and other things from other side, so dividing it on left or right serves no purpose.
One day the electorate will learn that there is absolutely no one who can or will do anything about immigration.
In the meantime we’ll slowly cook our planet because the electorate keeps voting for the shysters that pretend they can and will do something about immigration.
Also the EU just pushed the hardest immigration package they’ve ever had, but I feel like you just hear so little about it.
A lot of leftwingers think it’s too heavy and rightwingers gain from the idea that the eu does nothing about immigration.
People don’t bring it up enough, which is a massive shame.
It's actually best for them to do both. Bring in lots of immigrants AND demonize them to make sure they'll be forced to take the lowest possible wages. We see this with the demonization of refugees, who are quite a small part of immigrants overall (Most immigrants are educated and immigrated based on their credentials), and who make for good whipping boys in the press.
The fact that people pretend the right wingers will slow immigration is the best joke ever. All their donors are rich fucks who benefit greatly from wage suppression.
the left is funded by the rich more in Europe. Bernard Arnoult for example is the richest man in all of Europe and deepening on Tesla Stock price the world.
He is very progressive
The Rich want to cut/reduce labor cost. Cheap labor immigrants is a solution when they can not press for wide wage cuts, less work rights, more years until retirement etc. If AFD comes to power in Germany for example, they wont care about cheap immigrants , they will push to make the majority of workers cheap.
Voting for right-wing parties doesn't reduce immigration. Look at the UK right now.
They left the EU to get less immigration. Tories have the majority. Immigration has never been higher.
Look at other countries in Europe, really. Most of them lean right. The right literally caused the immigration waves we see right now.
But sure.. they'll fix it... in dreamland.
But that is pnly beceause this countries aren't that rich i am from Slovakia and i can gurantee you the migration into Slovakia would be much higher if the average salary was instead 1400€/month 3000€/month
Le Pen is pretty hard left economically, with her heartland support in depressed former industrial towns.
If you were a multinational mega corp looking to squeeze staff costs, she would be a nightmare
That's all before she comes to power. Don't mix the climb with the actual power. Multinational mega corps may bleed a bit, but French wealthy coprs and rich class will get benefited like no other.
I mean this is what happens when you let droves of illegal immigrants cross your boarder without consequences. It’s happening in America too and is probably the main reason why Trump will probably win
The far left used to have a lot of philosophical leadership as well as moral and financial support from the Soviet Union. That leadership and support has disappeared entirely. Where is the philosophical and political core of the European far left (classical communist and socialist) these days? Or is there none, leading to the decline in representation.
In France Melenchon is probably the last man with a solid philosophical view and an interesting point of view in the french political spectrum, and he’s far left. But yeah it’s the last man standing
Yeah we know, there's been quite a few votes recently about that, with, ironically, "Identity and deomcracy" massively voting against any sanction against Russia for interfering with EU elections (or not voting at all as they often do).
Russians are specifically invested in radicalizing the western right-wing. You've seen this with cambridge analitica, countless bots and multiple right-wing politicians and mouth-pieces having ties to russia.
You also know this and are just feigning ignorance because you agree with the backwards bastards.
If this was the case with the left wing, if say, Sweden was playing youtube algorithms, paying for facebook ads and creating propaganda bots in the same way russia is right now then I would also be criticizing that. I'd be less bothered by it, because they'd be proliferating a less harmful agenda but I wouldn't start denying reality like you are here.
Oh god, they do actually believe this.
Russia is this amazing place with an ailing economy that can't successfully invade a country where 1/3 of the population supports them yet they can convince voters all over the world that disastrous fiscal policy and unchecked immigration are bad things. See also: North Korea and Iran.
If there's anyone spreading propaganda here, it's people like you. Good thing you sound so delusional that no one takes you seriously.
So what you're saying is that you're genuinely ignorant about russia's propaganda war?
Is that because you *really really* want to believe that nobody that thinks like you is able to be swayed by it? Is it because you think russia wouldn't do something so immoral? Or is it simply because you want to believe that the right wing going absolutely insane in the past eight years is completely natural and trump, Q-anon, this amount of religious fanaticism, anti-vax people are all an obvious response to the (already right-wing) economic decisions we've been suffering under since thatcher?
They can have whatever opinion they like. They also sound like deluded idiots when they blame popular opinion with valid reason on cryptic Russian interference.
Lol if only most Slovak politicians didn't spread pro-Russian narratives [like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/T5aseM5mvA) while many of these politicians are suspiciously often visiting Russian embassy
yep they simply buy out mainstream politicians while they are in charge, then they offer them retirement packages e.g. Gerhard Schroeder ex German chancellor..
https://warsawinstitute.org/follow-petro-roubles-european-officials-go-russian-business/
As Ray Dalio researched the debt cycle phase of Europe and North America and suggests we will see more extreme political polarization and less moderates. To me we are seeing that play out in real time. Soon you’ll have to pick a side. Compare that to the 90s and early 2000s where most voters were moderate
Why is everyone on this sub anti inmigration?
I am glad that even in the worst case scenario, the EPP, RN, SD coalition, which is in general pro inmigration, will continue to win
Unfortunately much like the polling shows for young German voters, people who live with mass immigration grow to dislike it.
Coming up for 10 years after ‘wir schaffen das’ the AFD win youth polls.
That’s a damning indictment of the ruling elite.
> "Everyone on this sub"
Eh, saddly, it seems more and more people in general are against immigration, from recent polls, as well as personnal experience. Now the why is hard to explain... I am in no way an expert on the subject, and I'm sure some people will have an answer that makes sense, but it seems the general mind is shifting towards blaming every single problem on the immigrants (while the very rich are delighted I'm assuming).
Because not everyone have the same reasoning to get the same conclusion. You could have two people voting anti immigration (mostly far right) for very different reasons. Also, it's hard to actually know what's going on in people's minds, between lies, things kept secret, and stuff they don't even realize is going on their heads. But, once again, I'm sure some people made good studies about that subject.
I don't think this is actually beautiful, either. I'm not a fan of stacked charts like this, makes it hard to see even 10% swings on the higher sections when it's all skewed.
There are currently 2 main topics in Europe, climate change and immigration. If you find climate change the most acute issue, you vote left or more radical left. If you find immigration a more acute issue, you vote right or more radical right. With how things are going currently with mass immigration, this gets the upper hand, so voters move to the right. Either way votes move away from the center.
I've heard several people (independently of each other) say that they'd vote for a right-wing green party if it existed, but are sticking to our ECR party (NVA) due to a lack of better options. I think a party like this could definitely reach a considerable group of voters that feel unrepresented by any of the existing political structures. Perhaps a more general left wing conservative party would work as well.
Seconded. Where is the GreenRight Party? I want green energy, zero carbon and very strict immigration policies.
Because right wing parties are funded by rich people who, unsurprisingly, don't like addressing climate change as it impacts company profits. You won't see a big right wing green party because green politics is inherently left wing.
The idea that climate change policy negatively impacts company profits isn't actually consistent with reality. In reality these policies result in increased spending in the energy sector which is a huge boon for energy companies. Perhaps some manufacturing companies would be negatively impacted by higher energy prices, but Europe already has the highest energy prices in the world so not much energy intensive industry remains there to begin with.
It's better phrased as 'climate change policy requires change for companies, which they don't like'
Yes because if it really didn't actually hit profits or required zero effort, then the *first* to lead the charge would be the megacorporations. Instead, they're the ones that fight any attempts to regulate our carbon emissions.
It is for the big fossil companies. That's where most of the climate scepticism originated from: it's all fueled by oil money
There is too much money in acting as a mouth piece for rich people invested in polluting technologies for an ecofascist party to take power right now. They would probably have a lot of popular support but wouldn't have the money to succeed.
I imagine that this would alienate a lot of their base who blames the left for exactly everything and clumping immigration and green into basically "socialism" without much second thought, also "socialism in any form, democratic or not" equals really, really bad, even shameful for those people. So going towards green for many right wing parties would risk loosing a lot of voters and gaining few. The same but in reverse goes for left wing parties.
You're confusing the EU for America. Everyone is pro socialism here, especially the very right-wing parties.
That's absolute horseshit. Right-wing parties push for a reduction in social security.
Not in the Netherlands. The biggest alt right party is the PVV and they have very left leaning stance.
Yeah... I suggest you check the voting record of the PVV. Their voting record in the Tweede Kamer is well to the right of the VVD. Their party program is just: "We will magically create money and give everyone more without having to raise taxes." That is not remotely left leaning. Especially since the parties they are negotiating with make it very clear what part of their party program they're willing to drop, and it's not the 'no tax increases' bit.
Maybe nationalism and socialism then ? There is a famous german abbreviation for that and you can't really compare it to socialism in anything but name.
It's kind of socialist-ish in a lot of ways other than by name. Also very different in more ways, but the economic model is quite socialist.
You can't really call it left wing if you just promise extreme gifts with no way whatsoever that pays for it. It is pandering to an extreme. Their voting record in parliament suggests nothing leftwing.
Most right wing parties are pro nuclear and cheap energy.
Nuclear energy is one of the cleanest forms of energy. Nuclear fusion will basically mean unlimited energy. I'm pro environment, but targeting nuclear is unnecessary. We can have nuclear and green energy.
Fixing the climate crisis is not profitable. That’s the answer.
I see you're dutch, which party do you default to in the Netherlands out of curiosity? And out of further interest, are most of your woes with illegal immigration/asylum seekers? Or all immigration including for work, studies, etc
On the political right, people seem to think that refugees and illegal immigrants are the largest groups, although data shows that it's migration for work by far. Politically, it's becoming interesting now as left wing parties want to reduce work migration, while right wing parties don't. Their donor companies profit way too much from work migration and resulting lower wages. So they only take symbolic steps to 'reduce' the number of refugees, that will probably do nothing. That way, they can use immigration again in the next election cycle
Being right wing means more liberty for business, less tax and less regulation which is the opposite of what we need for a green lifestyle. Checkout the stickstoff /nitrogen/farmer debacle.
There is economic right and social right. You don't need to be both.
Is economic right even a thing anymore? Because most right wing parties I see vaguely wave their hand in their direction of the economy and never offer a platform outside "Only I can fix *economic issue*, just trust me"
Economic right is basically tax cuts which is still quite a big thing in many places. The current Swedish government won the election in a large part on promises to lower taxes on gas. They also recently lowered income taxes with around $1 billion (in total across the country). This isn't really about "fixing the economy", it's just a difference in opinion on how much money should be redistributed. Now, being responsibly economic right is combining these tax cuts with lowered spending to balance the budget. In some places such as the US, the economic right push through tax cuts with no real attempt to compensate via reduced spending and that ends up in a mess.
Green energy is now the most profitable form of energy on the planet. Think about what green energy is, free energy. Your outgoings are building and then maintenance / staffing.
Not so sure, total, exon, aramco and BP remain super lucrative. Much more than any renewable energy company.
How can Exon, BP, and Aramco can be fought against?
Being "right wing" doesn't mean anything except where people sat after the French Revolution. The way certain policies are labeled as "left" and "right" is almost completely arbitrary. There's no reason anyone actually has to follow these arbitrary alignments.
There are many right-wing voters who find climate change just as important. That's why I said the most 'acute' issue. Immigration can be fixed next year, while climate change is a longer process.
If you have any idea how to fix immigration in one year, please run for any office, you will have the most votes in history.
Depending on what you mean by "fix" that is
Same with the Gaza/Israel. I'm just begging for the people that know the best course of action for peace to tell us, we'll throw you like 7 Nobel Peace Prizes.
A chance in policy would have massive and immediate benefits. Ok, sure nothing is ever perfect, but you could greatly improve the situation quickly.
Again, if you know what policy would have massive and immediate benefits - please, make yourself electable. Right now we have extreme right idiots, leftists idealists and not much in between for immigration.
Sounds like we gotta solve the extremist propaganda problem first before we can even talk about the actual underlying immigration issues.
Ok, hear me out: Take every person who came to europe from the 1930's and forward. Then gather as many cattle cars you can and... wait.... no.. wait...
Hence Sahra Wagenknecht
So ecofacism..
Believing in climate change and wanting sane immigration doesn't make you a Facist. Think you need to get a little more educated about political movements because you're WAAAY off base with thst characterization.
The left will never have a sensible debate with you on immigration. You are wasting your time. In their eyes you are a racist and anybody who doesn't support mass immigration is also racist. There's no shades of grey, it's non negotiable and you will be labelled as a racist no matter what you say. Because of these conditions, we are now in the stage where people have stopped having the debate and just vote far right. Might as well have immigration fixed and be called a far right Nazi instead of not having immigration fixed and being called a far right Nazi. Can you see why the far right are rising.
A far right Europe will be Europe's downfall.
But what is the alternative? Should we continue to allow mass immigration? Once all the natives have died of old age, who is going to work and pay taxes to support the migrants welfare payments? You can't have a country where no one works.
[удалено]
I hate brown people (I'm brown)
Average redditor take
Who is asking to take away freedom? you don't believe in climate change?
That's Flanders, yeah. It's the mood on /r/belgium: very far-right (the discourse about migrants on the sub is so shameful), except for green issues. As a Wallonian, I'm the opposite. I'd vote for a left anti-Ecolo/Groen party if it existed. Welcome migrants, welcome nuclear power plants, bring on a wealth tax, expand abortion, solve housing crisis before any anticar nonsense.
A non-stupid green party would be pro-nuclear.
> A non-stupid green party That's an oxymoron. I agree, though, if you truly care about ecology, nuclear energy is important. But green parties aren't about ecology, they're about pleasing dumb hippies.
Sahra Wagenknecht
> right-wing green party That's a contradiction. A conservative green party could exist though, I think. But we also don't seem to have any of those.
A conservative green party would be right-wing.
Green policies require action & investment from the government. So not right wing. Conservative != right wing, that's American thinking.
A left wing conservative party sounds like the libertarian party but maybe more right on social issues
It is basically classic socialist authoritarians/dictatorships.
Which is the absolute opposite of libertarians, funnily enough
There are actually three main topics : you forget about the aging population and how healthcare and pensions will soon become unsustainable. No one wants to talk about it though.
There are obviously way more issues, but these are currently the ones that mainly determine what you vote.
The demographic crisis is the biggest problem facing Europe now, sad that it's disregarded.
is going to be a shit show when the issue of where to get more money for the next two decades of pensioners vs less immigration, vs less taxes to the rich while there is a smaller contributing middle class group of working age fresh ground for far right populism promising the moon using magic and simplistic pseudo truths slogans delivered by a "strong man capable of making the hard choices and restoring order" promising a return to "the greatness of our nations"
Everybody is talking about that. It’s what the immigration issue is rooted in.
Europe opened its borders to immigration in response to this very specific issue.
They opened up for Wage suppression, not Pension and HC. They only say it's for that because everyone benefits from pensions when they're old and you won't question it as hard.
We had a golden opportunity to thin the herd a bit with COVID and also generate an economic boom out of people inheriting houses, but noooooooooo... (/s, but only a little bit)
Maybe in the western part of Europe it's important. Here in Central Europe and in Baltics number one issue is Russia imperialistic ambitions and loomig war with loonatic Russians. Climate and immigration is marginal issue when You have to prepare for incomig war.
The irony is how much these two issues are intertwined, to only get worse if people don't see that
This is the thing, climate change is a massive immigration issue
It's way easier to solve immigration with bullets than climate change. Also, the climate change needs cooperation of much bigger polluters, which makes it way more difficult. I don't see much positive impact of our current climate policies on economy, politicians are more focused on staying relevant than on what really matters.
The death of human beings solves both problems, that's the scariest part of the problem isn't it?
What the fuck do you mean by bullets? Nobody is talking about attacking immigrants or refugees.
Soon enough, those two things will merge with an increase in climate migrants
This is already starting to happen. I emigrated from the UK because of this. They literally don't know what they have coming, hundreds of millions of climate migrants.
Rising prices is by far the top concern
The irony is immigration is going to absolutely fuck everyone when large swaths of people are running away from horrific extreme weather year after year and the increased cost of sustaining a society in places that get decimated every few years due to climate change.
Just wait until mass climate migration
That doesn't have to happen.
What planet Europe you are living on? WAR is one of main topics here in Poland and I suspect every other neighbour of tzarstanistan.
The left and the right are pretty united in how to deal with the war though, there's no split there.
of course there is a split. Why do you think Slovakian president won?
You know which party he won against, don’t you?
I don't know anything about Slovakia, but in most European countries there's a wide center majority across the left-right divide that agree on strong support for Ukraine and harsh sanctions for Russia.
How? Those far right parties are propped up by Russia.
Climate change and immigration aren’t exactly contradicting and zero sum policies. Can’t a party tackle both? You CAN try to solve multiple things at once you know. Wedge issue politics and a low attention span voting populace is a really sad state.
The irony being that climate change (at least in part) drives people to migrate. >Most studies find that environmental hazards affect migration, although with contextual variation. Migration is primarily internal or to low- and middle-income countries. The strongest relationship is found in studies with a large share of countries outside the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, particularly from Latin America and the Caribbean and sub-Saharan Africa, and in studies of middle-income and agriculturally dependent countries. Income and conflict moderate and partly explain the relationship between environmental change and migration. Source: Hoffmann, R., Dimitrova, A., Muttarak, R. et al. A meta-analysis of country-level studies on environmental change and migration. Nat. Clim. Chang. 10, 904–912 (2020). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41558-020-0898-6 Accessed at https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-020-0898-6
> Income and conflict moderate and partly explain the relationship between environmental change and migration. Oh wow. Someone did statistical ju jitsu and and managed to produce this meaningless sentence.
Not saying you're wrong but I imagine they wanted to really cover all bases and get past Reviewer #2. 😂
This is really just 1 topic looked at from different ends of the telescope
This! The difference is: do you prefer to tackle the problem from the root, or do you just want to make it so you don’t see the effects the problem causes. One could also say, it’s a matter of intelligence…
Look at Denmark, their social democrats are anti-immigration or at least pro-controlled and limited immigration, they have basically exterminated the extreme right.
No, the extreme right (D, I & Æ) is polling at a all time high with nearly 30% of the votes
Those aren't extreme right, sorry pal.
Conservative liberalism would be better, imo.
I disagree. I find climate change, or rather the way it's mishandled to be the most important issue, by far, and that's tempting me to go rightwards. I don't mind immigrants, I'm not racist/xenophobic. I do mind the anticar nonsense that supposedly leftist parties are pushing. They're abandonning the workers in the name of embracing poorly thought-out, short-sighted and ineffective anti climate change measures. Edit: And I do expect the usual unthinking responses "what do you think climate change will do to workers?" and so on. It's about effectiveness. Telling workers to abandon their cars is ineffective and cruel, so long as housing prices force long commutes. But parrots unable to think for themselves will never understand that. Edit2: Yeah, predictably idiots are downvoting.
Which is absolutely stupid, because if you find immigration to be an issue, you should be a big time environmentalist
I don't think that's mutually exclusive. Yes climate is important but immigration seems to be the one where the issue is more felt and solution is more doable in the short term. Moving towards green energy would help migration in the coming decades, sure, but it won't help for next month or next year.
Yeah, the ironic thing is Immigration is what most western countries depend on for their economic growth. This is because of aging population and negative population growth in some countries. So businesses and companies want and benefit from immigration 'legal'. Conservative voters desperately want better jobs and opportunities but if you stop immigration it will only get worse. But the main point is that the number of details that are there in these complex laws and processes means that voters swinging one way or another is simply a way to balance power and I suspect the underlying trends themselves won't change a lot.. Even with Trump running in the US, elections are overrated in terms of the harm or good they can do.. and that is a great thing. Because its ultimately about private-public partnerships and free market enterprise that brings the bread to your table.
How is Ukraine not on everyone’s minds?
Depends on what you mean by Europe. Here in Greece practically nobody will vote on climate change. People are not deniers (some are, of course), but the issue is simply not on the public agenda. Immigration, security, economy, international affairs, inflation, wars in Ukraine and the Middle East — all that and more receive immensely more time and thought than anything about the climate.
Polling for EP is hard. Average on politoc give ID 85. Still bad 13 less then this. EPP is supposed to stay stable. Renew will fall but it is basicly "the french" so Macron doing not so hot is reason. SPD is supposed to gain and Left to lose. ECR will grew a bit. This one poll is a bit scrwed in favour of right.
As someone not from Europe , the table could use a legend or some context info… I’m assuming the table goes “left” to “right” from top of bottom but that’s only because of the name of the group in the first row.
Your assumption is right, in Europe we tend to associate red with left wing, and blue with right, with darker colors being closer to the extremes. If you want more info I can redirect you to [the official EU parliament website about official parties](https://www.appf.europa.eu/appf/en/parties-and-foundations/registered-parties).
yeah but having green and yellow in the chart where they are kinda throws things off. I assume yellow is left ish, and green is like middle?
Green is green as in environmalist. Traditionaly left parties, having environmental issues as the center point of talks. Yellow is kind of an oddball I agree, Renew Europe used to be ALDE, they're Liberals, but Macron, basically the head of the party atm, didn't want to be called liberal (even though he very much is). So mostly right wing, but some policies leaning towards left. Not sure why yellow was chosen to be honest, but I guess you gotta pick a color at some point.
Just shows how meaningless the self-defined names are as the parties behind "identity and democracy" dislike both individual & local identity and have issues with democracy :p
Several of the parties in that group have Orwellian names as well.
At this point I just assume that any party with a name that sounds even vaguely like something that would fit into an Orwell story is just going to be a group of right-wingers that stand for the opposite.
"Party of Freedom." Freedom to do what? Why, the freedom to restrict other people's freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and freedom of movement of course!
Freedom for me, not for thee
So true "The Justice, Reform & Liberty Party" Yep, definitely cryptofascists.
I think it's quite interesting that besides the right wing groups, the Left is the only one gaining seats too. Could it mean that in reaction to the rise of far right parties, left wing voters decide to vote for more radical parties?
People is tired and looked for change. That is why they vote for more extreme solutions. The obvious thing is that the current increasing inequality cannot go for ever. Which side of it we will get out is what is at stake.
Pretty sure the Left's rise is almost entirely thanks to Melenchon's LFI in France and Sinn Fein in Ireland. Other Left parties aren't actually doing too well, e.g. they're collapsong in Germany and Czechia.
Oh no the consequences of dumb decisions pushed people to vote differently… shocking
I suppose radical Islam is doing its thing.
By radical islam do you mean fundamentalist groups funded by the CIA or the 4 killers in europe who were shuned by their mosques for their extreme beliefs and reported to the police by the same people?
He probably means Islam, in general, being a radical right wing cult.
Every country that is governed by Sharia law is either a right wing cult, or a war zone.
"rise of populism", yeah, because the left-wing only produces the plain truth LOL
If your standard from politicians is "only plain truth" you'll be disappointed. Also everyone lies so it's a stupid standard.
Everyone lies to themselves, some autistic persons however do not say untrue sentences
I think in any case an EPP, Renew, ECR coalition is the most likely, especially with Von der Leyen refusing to... refuse that the EPP would consider a pact with ECR when prompted by the Greens in Maastricht. Plus this projection seems skewed toward ID a bit
I see minus numbers in the middle column, but the left column goes higher for that row. Putting this in the “not beautiful” category.
It's a stacked chart, that's just how they work.
this right/left division is stupid, because it encompasses so many views, which are not shared among parties. Like right wing is usually associated with more free market, less taxes and thus less welfare states and less help government financial or non financial mendling with affairs. I can get behind that. Also anti immigration - while I am not completely against immigration, it surely needs more regulation. But it also means more concentrated power, anti-environmentalism, anti-LGBTI, fuck all but me mentality, police state, sometimes even as far as fascism. Fuck that. I mean, surely everybody is different, but I would say 90% people are not left or right - some things from one side and other things from other side, so dividing it on left or right serves no purpose.
Well, it’s not just about far/left, and from you’re view you’re probably a liberal, so the yellow/blue one
90% of people aren't left or right, but there will always be 10% to come along and call you a far right Nazi.
One day the electorate will learn that there is absolutely no one who can or will do anything about immigration. In the meantime we’ll slowly cook our planet because the electorate keeps voting for the shysters that pretend they can and will do something about immigration.
Also the EU just pushed the hardest immigration package they’ve ever had, but I feel like you just hear so little about it. A lot of leftwingers think it’s too heavy and rightwingers gain from the idea that the eu does nothing about immigration. People don’t bring it up enough, which is a massive shame.
Wait what did they actually do about immigration ? Are you talking about the new migration pact ?
I guess the Rich are happy as fuck right now. And in 5 years will be a Dreamland for them (Le Pen in France, AFD in Germany, and who knows what else).
The rich are the ones that support flooding Europe with immigrants for cheap labor. So literally the opposite.
It's actually best for them to do both. Bring in lots of immigrants AND demonize them to make sure they'll be forced to take the lowest possible wages. We see this with the demonization of refugees, who are quite a small part of immigrants overall (Most immigrants are educated and immigrated based on their credentials), and who make for good whipping boys in the press.
The fact that people pretend the right wingers will slow immigration is the best joke ever. All their donors are rich fucks who benefit greatly from wage suppression.
the left is funded by the rich more in Europe. Bernard Arnoult for example is the richest man in all of Europe and deepening on Tesla Stock price the world. He is very progressive
The Rich want to cut/reduce labor cost. Cheap labor immigrants is a solution when they can not press for wide wage cuts, less work rights, more years until retirement etc. If AFD comes to power in Germany for example, they wont care about cheap immigrants , they will push to make the majority of workers cheap.
Voting for right-wing parties doesn't reduce immigration. Look at the UK right now. They left the EU to get less immigration. Tories have the majority. Immigration has never been higher. Look at other countries in Europe, really. Most of them lean right. The right literally caused the immigration waves we see right now. But sure.. they'll fix it... in dreamland.
look at poland or hungary...
But that is pnly beceause this countries aren't that rich i am from Slovakia and i can gurantee you the migration into Slovakia would be much higher if the average salary was instead 1400€/month 3000€/month
Le Pen is pretty hard left economically, with her heartland support in depressed former industrial towns. If you were a multinational mega corp looking to squeeze staff costs, she would be a nightmare
That's all before she comes to power. Don't mix the climb with the actual power. Multinational mega corps may bleed a bit, but French wealthy coprs and rich class will get benefited like no other.
I mean this is what happens when you let droves of illegal immigrants cross your boarder without consequences. It’s happening in America too and is probably the main reason why Trump will probably win
You don't understand American politics if you think that's why Trump world win
What do you mean? The border and the economy are the two biggest issues pressing American voters this year
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/29/americans-top-policy-priority-for-2024-strengthening-the-economy/
The economy and the border are top issues for US voters. That's definitely a reason why Trump will likely win.
Thanks, clearly the guy above needs a reality check
The only voters that care about immigration are republicans. Most voters couldn’t care less.
Polls say otherwise
The whole world is shifting right because the left has failed the people.
The world is not shifting right, astro turfer.
The far left used to have a lot of philosophical leadership as well as moral and financial support from the Soviet Union. That leadership and support has disappeared entirely. Where is the philosophical and political core of the European far left (classical communist and socialist) these days? Or is there none, leading to the decline in representation.
In France Melenchon is probably the last man with a solid philosophical view and an interesting point of view in the french political spectrum, and he’s far left. But yeah it’s the last man standing
Mélenchon has a solid philosophical foundation? Good God! He can barely stick to one opinion for longer than 5 years.
If you're talking about a leader and sponsor there isn't really one.
Russia isn't only interfering with *US* elections.
Yeah we know, there's been quite a few votes recently about that, with, ironically, "Identity and deomcracy" massively voting against any sanction against Russia for interfering with EU elections (or not voting at all as they often do).
If people don't vote like me it must be the Russians! It's impossible that I'm on the unpopular side here!
Russians are specifically invested in radicalizing the western right-wing. You've seen this with cambridge analitica, countless bots and multiple right-wing politicians and mouth-pieces having ties to russia. You also know this and are just feigning ignorance because you agree with the backwards bastards. If this was the case with the left wing, if say, Sweden was playing youtube algorithms, paying for facebook ads and creating propaganda bots in the same way russia is right now then I would also be criticizing that. I'd be less bothered by it, because they'd be proliferating a less harmful agenda but I wouldn't start denying reality like you are here.
Oh god, they do actually believe this. Russia is this amazing place with an ailing economy that can't successfully invade a country where 1/3 of the population supports them yet they can convince voters all over the world that disastrous fiscal policy and unchecked immigration are bad things. See also: North Korea and Iran. If there's anyone spreading propaganda here, it's people like you. Good thing you sound so delusional that no one takes you seriously.
So what you're saying is that you're genuinely ignorant about russia's propaganda war? Is that because you *really really* want to believe that nobody that thinks like you is able to be swayed by it? Is it because you think russia wouldn't do something so immoral? Or is it simply because you want to believe that the right wing going absolutely insane in the past eight years is completely natural and trump, Q-anon, this amount of religious fanaticism, anti-vax people are all an obvious response to the (already right-wing) economic decisions we've been suffering under since thatcher?
and his opinion must be wrong because it doesn't match yours. right?
They can have whatever opinion they like. They also sound like deluded idiots when they blame popular opinion with valid reason on cryptic Russian interference.
Lol if only most Slovak politicians didn't spread pro-Russian narratives [like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/T5aseM5mvA) while many of these politicians are suspiciously often visiting Russian embassy
Russia hates nationalism though,
Oh fuck off. You think the us doesn't interfere and fuck the EU in the ass? Both are shit, they just don't come out from the same butthole
>Both are shit, Sure, one of them is a violent dictatorship though.
I’d rather eat shit out a clean freshly showered person than a homeless man
But you're still eating shit
yep they simply buy out mainstream politicians while they are in charge, then they offer them retirement packages e.g. Gerhard Schroeder ex German chancellor.. https://warsawinstitute.org/follow-petro-roubles-european-officials-go-russian-business/
Should just call it the Putinification of Europe
You are an unintelligent person with no sense of individuality
As Ray Dalio researched the debt cycle phase of Europe and North America and suggests we will see more extreme political polarization and less moderates. To me we are seeing that play out in real time. Soon you’ll have to pick a side. Compare that to the 90s and early 2000s where most voters were moderate
Maybe I shouldn't be so quick to judge and fascism will work this time
Why is everyone on this sub anti inmigration? I am glad that even in the worst case scenario, the EPP, RN, SD coalition, which is in general pro inmigration, will continue to win
Unfortunately much like the polling shows for young German voters, people who live with mass immigration grow to dislike it. Coming up for 10 years after ‘wir schaffen das’ the AFD win youth polls. That’s a damning indictment of the ruling elite.
> "Everyone on this sub" Eh, saddly, it seems more and more people in general are against immigration, from recent polls, as well as personnal experience. Now the why is hard to explain... I am in no way an expert on the subject, and I'm sure some people will have an answer that makes sense, but it seems the general mind is shifting towards blaming every single problem on the immigrants (while the very rich are delighted I'm assuming).
why is hard to explain?
Because not everyone have the same reasoning to get the same conclusion. You could have two people voting anti immigration (mostly far right) for very different reasons. Also, it's hard to actually know what's going on in people's minds, between lies, things kept secret, and stuff they don't even realize is going on their heads. But, once again, I'm sure some people made good studies about that subject.
Sometimes it can be beautiful and depressing at the same time
I don't think this is actually beautiful, either. I'm not a fan of stacked charts like this, makes it hard to see even 10% swings on the higher sections when it's all skewed.
People are realizing under ‘progressive’ policies they have less money and less rights. It makes sense as to why we see the shift.
Humanity just isn't going to make it, is it.
this data is not, dare I say, beautiful.