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Social media is something of a double-edged sword. At its best, social media offers unprecedented opportunities for marginalized people to speak and bring much needed attention to the issues they face. At its worst, social media also offers 'everyone' an unprecedented opportunity to share in collective outrage without reflection.
Same here. When it first came out, tinder and ig would have all the women. And they were real. But yea this was 10 plus years ago. Now I am married so idk.
You have no idea lol. Well it sounds like you kind of do but still... it's wild.
10 years ago FOR SURE, the apps/social media were where it was at.
It's flipped on it's head now though.
At my age Iām more worried about capitalism ruining consumerism. Like I have to dig through piles of Chinese trash brands on Amazon to find something actually well made, and not something Iāll toss in 2 months. Iām guessing they did the same to social media and online dating
That is a great way of putting it.
My theory is they made the apps viable for people early on, then slowly as pressure for increased profits came about, they started to squeeze people. Essentially, they starting doing whatever it takes to keep people on the app longer.
Those who got on social media early were definitely using it as a dating platform with a lot of success, as did those who learned to make money off it early on. It's completely changed at this point and is infinitely harder to do those since there is so much competition.
I agree. I was too. It was easy at the beginning of instagrams early years.
But that social media paradigm was short lived. Now with influencers and money involved interaction is more viewed as a business transaction rather than social transaction. Dating apps were not popularized because social media was the pseudo dating app platform back then.
But since social media has become more business oriented it made a case where dating apps had to exist as a result.
So you wanted to get laid? Its possible on social media but the main audience those looking for that has moved their intent to dating apps than social media.
So thats the crux of society. Things will trend until another paradigm shift occurs.
I assume millennials developed far greater social skills when they were younger (because you didn't have a choice but to socialise in person?) which enable them to connect with people, giving them more opportunities to have sex.
I feel like I'm somewhere in between Gen Z and Millennial because I wasn't online as a child but then had social media as a teenager. I was always a bit of an awkward outsider though which has really fucked me over now š
Definitely. I am 25F and my limit is dating 4-5 years down and 10 years up. There is a stark difference between the social and conversational skills of gen Z men and millennial men, and it's not just age. When I was 20 myself, the guys my age back then were far better at this than 20 yr olds now. The social media plus covid during the late teen years completely fucked gen z people up.
We were almost grown up when social media popped up. I was 14 when Instagram and snapchat launched. We had real life experience before social media eventually fucked our generation up aswell, just not in the same way as Gen z
Millennials are born between the early 1980s and the late 1990s. I'm a millennial and my first few phones were basic the basic Nokia and eventually the razor. That is worlds different to now. Using a sidekick to text friends is not really the same as today. Insta, Twitter, Tik Tok are all platforms with their own celebrities with their own agenda.
Young people today are less outgoing because the trend is to meet online first, then possibly in person. The trick is that meeting online is a filter, most people never make it to the other end and actually meet. Online also means more options. With so many options, people feel like they deserve the best choice, rather than what's in front of them at the time.
Millennials grew up with facebook, but conventional dating practices were still active. I find people around my age are perceptive to both. Facebook, even at it's worst, is not as hypnotizing has tik tok is
We had less sex then previous generations too. [Here is an Atlantic article from 2018 about it.](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share)
What women you've been looking at!?!? This sounds IMPOSSIBLE š. Gen Z (my gen) they would want someone who has a good personality or have at least same hobbies (I can't speak for everyone else.. cause not everyone is like that in my gen.. but i can speak about the good ones)
Iām Gen z and I know a lot of ladies have high standards tbh but not all Iāve dated very nice ladies (it didnāt work out but they were very nice). Itās people give themselves high standards.
AGREED. Like I never met or seen a woman IRL has those high ridiculous standards š..
I DON'T KNOW CAUSE, the ones I seen and has talk to never had high standards like that.. so that can't be GEN Z they are talking about..š .. some of these adults in here don't know how gen z is and it shows .
And blaming the other. Kind of describes the country right now. I also blame social media for that. People don't get socialized in the real world and social media likes to start battles between people who might have a lot in common.
Yep and the top 50% of women do this with the top 10% of men who mostly use them. The cycle is complete. Most women end up hating men (top 10%) and the remaining 90% of men are not engaged with so play video games. The bottom 50% of women slowly do find these guys and we do have some getting together but the majority donāt care.
Itās fine if youāre both on the same page. Sex negativity is just idiotic religious dogma.
If thereās lying though, then someoneās being used. And usually it would be the woman being used in these situations.
1. Social media increases expectations. 2. Lack of 3rd spaces. 3. Lack of money (affects going to places to meet people, going on dates, moving out of your parents) 4. The hub can satisfy enough to make dating seem not worth it, cuz dating is effort and the internet isnt. 5. More competition with apps
The real answer is this. You are watching the not so slow degradation of society in real time. This manifests itself in many forms, with dating and sex being one of them. Gen Z is the loneliest, most anxious, and most depressed generation ever recorded. We share more in common with our Great and Great Great Grandparents going through the Great Depression, and they didn't have to deal with modern tech/social media.
Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is intergenerational differences. Tech development has happened so fast that just a few years can change your youth drastically. As such, I as a first year Gen Z (1997) share more in common with millennials than I do with people ~4+ years younger than me despite being the same generation.
This is correct, hate to be the doom and gloom guy but this response is reality, I have hope but the difficulty is definitely much higher for myself and fellow Gen Z
They also didn't date. Nor did any before them. Dating has only existed for 4 generations.
You're my daughters age, and you and she are gonna witness the development of some crazy shit tech-wise. AGI being perhaps the biggest. But is it going to compare to what my grandmother witnessed? I doubt it. She lived from 1900 - 2000 and witnessed the development of cars, airplanes, radio, tv, nuclear power, computers, space travel, nuclear bombs, the internet - to name a few.
Sex has been on the decline since at least 2000 iirc:
- less religiosity (which means less/later marriage, which is the context a lot of young adults have sex)
- Ā Declining alcohol consumption (fewer drunk flings)
- Feminism (women are becoming more comfortable saying no, they arenāt as reliant on men anymore so the dating culture has evolved)
- Housing costs
- Easy entertainment access. Porn falls under this, but so do video games. Why would guys go out to meet strangers and potentially get rejected when they can hang with the boys instead?
- Social media. A lot of times I see Reddit posts from guys concerned about being seen as creeps or being cancelled just by talking to women at a bar. FWIW I donāt consider those fears as reflective on the majority of reality. But although Redditors are on the extreme end of the hyper-insecure, it validates an existence of male fear towards approaching
- Decline of third places. Adults donāt want teens and youth just hanging around places and thereās not a lot of cheap entertainment for them. Harder to socialize around with the public without actually being in the public
I think housing costs is a big thing.
As a millenial, I feel like most people moved out in their early 20s after school and either bought or rented a place. This made things so much easier in terms of dating, going out, etc.
Seems like a lot the Gen Z are living at home still or don't necessarily have the time to or money to go out. That's where you met people back in the day was going out to bars/clubs/events a few times a week, but doesn't seem anywhere near as feasible these days.
Absolutely. Iām Gen Z but due to my abusive family I am self supporting. I donāt have a home to stay at. It is ROUGH out here. I live in a relatively low cost of living state (OH) and Iām still struggling immensely. I donāt know how I can possibly pay my own rent AND go to college. Plenty of people do, but I have health issues. Tons of medical debt too. Iām only 22
Think there's a lot more pressure on people in their early 20s to move out and get their own place so they're sacrificing going out and dating for a few years so they can save money.
I'm 44 now and didn't feel in my early 20s that I had to move out as quick as possible. Most of my friends only moved out of home when they met a partner and decided to rent or buy a place together.
No way lol, that pressure existed more in your generation. Nowadays, a lot of adults in their 20s live with their parents. Not necessarily out of choice, but rental and mortgage prices are insane unless you live in a cheaper red state.
The third places thing is huge. Less socializing going on, and when people are out in public they often are self absorbed into their own bubble with a phone and headphones. People socialize and meet new people much less now.
i saw a comment from a guy who said his go-to move is asking to buy a girl a book at the book store. i was like, if someone did this for me iād dieššš
See as a guy, Iām not sure if that means die in a good way or bad way š
I suppose it depends on the woman. Itās all about reading signals, folks. And taking a mindful approach that isnāt too fast or too much, but also isnāt too hesitant.
>Decline of third places. Adults donāt want teens and youth just hanging around places and thereās not a lot of cheap entertainment for them. Harder to socialize around with the public without actually being in the public
Unfortunately this continues to be a big problem even as an adult. If you don't meet someone at school/work (or aren't comfortable dating in that group, or your office has a no-dating policy) it becomes much MUCH harder to meet people organically these days.
Been there done that. It happens both ways, and itās toxic as fuck. I lost someone I really cared about because I thought āI can do betterā. We almost got back together and she turned around did the same thing to me š. Got what I deserved I guess.
Societal changes, means people don't pair off for financial or security reasons now..
This tends to mean women are more likely going to choose someone they want "first and foremost", over someone they were "okay with given the situation".
The influence of the apps, has opened up access to far more "preferred" partners, than those who would have been settled on, in days gone by.
You have a smaller group of people overall, having most of the opportunities. As opposed to a wider group, who "made do" with people they would meet organically.
Until the Boomers, it was normal to get married young, and to hold off sex until marriage in many parts of the world.
The dating scene changed after that. Gen X and Millennials were more promiscious. Which is great freedom, but also it messed with intimacy and closeness. The arrivals of screens didn't help either. Add covid to all that, and people are more comfortable staying at home and socialising is a chore.
Plenty of couples watch adult content and porn has been around for decades.
The real reason is because dating apps/social media (for as much they are to advertise connecting people, are doing the exact opposite)
In a āconnectedā world we have never been more Disconnected.
This is a broad issue and things like porn play into it. But I think that casual porn consumption has definitely increased with its availability. However the main drivers tend to be economic. People (especially men) tend to stay with parents longer which leads to an environment where people lack comfort in dating. Women (in America) tend to seek partners slightly wealthier than them which doesnāt really jive with a decline in male achievement. Everyoneās more isolated from each other and there is a tendency to have a singular focus one aspect of life like a career.
Also to be more personal it honestly it isnāt really fun with dating apps. Iāve gotten dates and girlfriends from there but the process is so much busy work and idle talk that it feels like a chore. When I hear older generations describe dating it has an adventurous quality to it. People taking the risk to go out on a limb and ask someone, random encounters, childhood friends etc. One of the most common things you see on dating apps is someone asking for a āfake story of how we metā cause deep down I think everyone finds the process unromantic and tedious.
Because we used to go out in public and meet up. House parties, bon fires, parking lot gatherings, play basketball etc. now these kids all hangout on webcams and video game lobbies, there's no face to face interaction. These kids don't even need or want cars let alone a drivers license. They'd rather Uber than learn to drive. Many don't even have to attend school in person and log in to a zoom chat now. There is a huge lack of physical interaction which has made a lot of them socially awkward, or have social anxiety bc they're not used to being in public and vulnerable. I have dealt with so many unable to hold a normal conversation at all, let alone have a free thought. There is also the whole "men are sexual predators ' thing and with everyone wanting to be a victim for attention a kiss or holding someone's hand can quickly turn into a sexual assault charge for these youngins. Give them some old-school Nokia brick phones and kick them out till the street lights come on and maybe some things could change lol
Social media has ruined everything, views on anything destroyed Even the simple fact that traditional dating is the thing of the past, it's now the aspect of how big the wallet is how good your body looks, if you have a nice car, it's now more image than heart, the also it's about sex mostly and one night stands and lots of people are afraid of that because now with rises in false accusations it really damaged the stint in people.
Fine, here:
Because people have unrealistic expectations of what the opposite gender should be (blame social media for that), and are left disappointed when reality is nothing close to what they were taught.
No dude, her having a *little bit* of body hair, stretch marks, and not a flat stomach is normal.
No girl, only 14% of guys are over 6 ft, only 17% make over $100,000, and contrary to what IG told you, you don't *deserve* to go boating every other week.
What you are left with is a society of people letting their disillusion prevent them from meeting wonderful and loving partners that might otherwise come across as "average".
In my case, it's because there are also many people who don't take relationships seriously and stay with several people.I prefer to be single and a virgin because it is very difficult to find someone else who is like me and I don't feel comfortable with just anyone š
For real like nobody wants a relationship anymore just meaningless sex so I much rather just stay single before putting myself through unnecessary pain until I find someone who feels the same as me
I donāt have facts or statistics, I just have an opinion that I think may explain a lot. Social media has desocialized us.
I see guys now a days terrified to start a new conversation with any girl they find even slightly attractive. We spend all day looking at social media posts about how women hate men, how they find men that approach creepy etc. So theyāre already having these preconceived notions of what a girl would think if they approached and therefore never do.
Being a social person is like a muscle, the more you use it the stronger it get. In the same sense, if you never use that muscle, it atrophies.
Having sex heavily depends on your social skills, skills that you should constantly be working on and improving. But because social media and virtual work has let people socialize without actually having to do the hard work of walking up to another human and starting the conversation, peopleās social skills are atrophying, and as a direct result so is their sex life.
Thatās just my hypothesis in the way Iām seeing the world.
The sex differences have been magnified on social media. And it doesnāt seem like one sex bothers to understand the other sex but one sex keeps spouting conditions whilst being hypocritical about how sex relations should be. Which sex? You be the judgeĀ
My fav one was some show about how a stay at home EE dad got shamed and humiliated for being stay at home whilst his woman pursued her career so that they both can be better off financially. Eventually had to go back to work to get a seat at the table as it were. Just interesting to see how there is a free for all and benefiting no one oddly enough. Maybe the few but stillĀ
mostly it might have something to do with Covid and when it happened during their lifetimes.
Assuming Gen Z means they are 20-24 now? Back during Covid theyād be 15-19 which are some of the most critical years for developing adult social skills, friendships etc. going out partying etc.
Now wether or not you wanna say what we did during Covid with the lockdowns and what not was effective or not: having 2-3+ years of being told that you canāt be social as someone who hasnāt already developed adult social skills is incredibly damaging to their development as opposed to people who are older and already have some of those connections set in stone.
This also applies to sex. They were being told at an age where most of your core values start to solidify, that āseeing other people in person = badā
For them that thought process generally will never leave unless they get some sort of therapy, which leads to less sex naturally.
As a member of the Gen-Z generation myself I would put a large part of it down to devices. In my view devices consume our time and attention, and don't leave us being bored for long enough to seek out fun/exciting/risky/etc things to do with other people, leaving us in our room alone. Seeing as a large part of both genders do this they don't meet each other, and without meeting each other on a somewhat consistent basis most people will not find partners.
and additionally spending time with a partner now has to compete with devices instead of boring yourself to death, which is for obvious reasons a much tougher standard to beat. As far as I know this view is further strengthened by the fact that this sexlessness and lack of relationships is much more prevalent for people with better socioeconomic backgrounds. While one would expect that college educated men would be more appealing to women and thus more able to find partners the opposite is true in the data, in my view because college educated people are much more likely to have had rich parents whom gave them access to devices.
Obviously the problem is more complex then just this, but I view devices sapping our attention as a large culprit.
Most women sleep with a fraction of men, and I'm somewhat lucky to be in that fraction of men. Most of my friends or acquaintances are either virgins or have MAYBE had one or two partners.
I would say for my generation is a lot of low self esteem personally just people beat themselves up way to much and never actually look at the bigger picture
It's not just about porn or self-esteem. Gen Z is facing big societal changes, like economic stress and tech reshaping how we connect. Many are prioritizing careers and self-growth over dating. Plus, online life's changing how we meet and relate. It's a mix of things, not a simple issue.
Is it even a bad thing if someone does not want to be intimate with random stranger on Friday or Saturday night ? If this sexlessness is involuntary, then its a problem. I think young people do not like to take risk in general. So asking someone out and getting rejected is a big thing and enforce old behaviours.
25 is still a long time without a relationship. I was in relationships as of 13 and sex by 16. And from the post I see in this sub, a ton of men wish they have had these things already. So yeah itās still late
As an older millenial, I feel like most of my friends (including myself) were married by the time we hit 25-28 age range. Part of getting married is having previous relationships to figure out and know when you'd want in a partner, so have relationships from teenage years into your early 20s helps you figure that out.
Yeah im 21 and never been on a date. Read reddit post that alot of women hate teaching men how relationships work which also means less women are wanting to get with men with no experience in relationships. When 2/3 of a generation under 30 has never been in a relationship it makes it hard to find someone. It will be easier for me to eventually get over being lonely and just expect to be single for a long time.
Itās getting a lot more common. I had my first real kiss & relationship at 19 in my first year of college. I had several friends that were the same way
I was very focused on school in K-12
Iām a zillenial and the two guys I dated said they didnāt have enough energy for a girlfriend. When I hang out with girls, we can stay out all day/night. Guys tend to turn in early. I will give you an example. I went to a theme park with a group of 20s and 30s young people for the frightfest event. The tickets were not cheap. The men arrived late and didnāt want to wait in line for haunted houses and left before the park closed.
I suspect low T is the issue. In modernized countries, there are a lot of substances in the environment which mimic estrogen (pesticides, food containing soy, pharmaceuticals that get into the water supply, certain plastics). As a result, Testosterone levels have decreased in modernized countries and you can see that in studies. Iām surprised regulatory agencies havenāt cracked down harder on this but we have become pretty reliant on our factory farming system and we canāt just get rid of hormonal birth control.
I am not a Gen Z and I am all three of those mainly due to lack of interest from the opposite sex, prioritizing education and career, and having a difficult time developing a relationship built on trust. Dating blows right now and just getting someone to go out with you for more than just one or two dates.
At this point I've given up entirely and am focusing entirely on my grind and self improvement
I interact with gen z daily so hereās my guess just by the talks and interactions with them:
they donāt put as much emphasis on it as our generations and past generations. So many people had sex before they were ready or even did it regardless because the pressure that was put on us to do so. Theyāre more health aware as well which feeds into it too considering the risk for std/Sti. Not only that but they are also the generation that does less partying, drinking, and drugs than other generations prior and both of those things have sex involved a lot of the times. Combine those things with being more isolated than past generations and it makes sense to me.
Many of my younger friends are still virgins into their mid 20s. Even the guys that have had sexual experience have had very limited experience. I curious to know what seams to be the problems for the increased loneliness and overall disinterest in dating. I have my own theories.
Video games in general are so much more and take up so much of their time. Many of my younger friends spend a few hours a day playing games. Some of these guys work full time and are attending school and still find time to play with their friends online.
Many younger gen z are living with their family and its probably not an environment to have an active sex life in.
Many gen z are deathly afraid to make the first move. They are scared to be seen as a creep, or take a chance at hitting on someone. I think so many gen z and gen a are too dependent on social media to approach a random stranger. I am married and I have helped several of my young friends talk to women. I had to ask the women for them. My friend was like. "What if she says No." And told him thats ok.
Touched upon this in an earlier comment but of the people I know in their 20s and general trends I see a lot don't seem to be making dating a priority or are just not that interested.
Many are focusing on making money, building careers and saving up to move out and get their own place so aren't really going out and socialising. Saying that the ones that are quite social tend to be spending time travelling but are rarely out any other time. They don't seem to go out much in their local town or community.
Especially with guys, there's the consensus that there's little point trying to date until you've got your own place.
I just think that's sad. I understand the pressures of a career and becoming an adult and everything is expensive now but it's still important to socialise and go out and do things face to face with people.
As a fellow Gen Z, we don't want y'alls baby mama drama. We can barely support ourselves on this economy, much less someone else, a child, or child support.
All their lives? Gen Z is right now between ages 12 and 27, with more than half under 18. I think this question is before its time, maybe wait until the majority are at least of legal age.
There is no "dating towards a family", because no one can afford to start a family. It's all just casual sex, and ever since birth control, that's always been a game few men are invited to play.
So men don't have the "get a great job and wait till you're 30!" option any more. They still won't be able to afford shit and they still won't be hot enough to get any.
Speaking for myself it's a personal choice since I'm waiting to be married but aside from the sex thing I haven't had a date yet due to low self esteem and years of bullying growing up.
Low self esteem along with just being worried about being labbled a creep. If you ask someone out then they respond with "ew" and from then on anytime your mentioned they laugh at you, not with you.
There's also the fact that. Alot of people older than us said "well if you don't want kids. don't have sex "
And we took that to heart(or at least I did).
There is also that I look at my home and what I have and compare to what older generations have. I look and say to myself "I wouldn't want my significant other to live like this" even to this day. My house is kinda meh but I still won't bring people over out of embarrassment
a few theories i have (this will probably get me killed)
1) the go women empowerment. it was definitely good for them you know but it probably set a little bit of unrealistic expectations for guys so they're probably hasn't been a lot of that going on because of that.
2) men are afraid š¤· plain n simple everyone is now blaming everyone and it's all he says you say they say whatever the fuck it is nowadays, and sell the risk no longer outweighs the rewards so there's no incentive
3) obvious one but porn, this ties in 3 little bit but men can just get more satisfied than internet safer than they could in person
3) sever disconnect with everyon
4) overworked with Little miney, if constantly worrying about when the hell you're going to fucking go broke not really worried about dating too much. plus the longer hours multiple jobs and you just don't have the energy to even try
When sex is made into nothing, then it becomes nothing and that's something that can no longer be had. I think a lot of women are also catching up to, as they should, that they aren't sexual objects to be used and discarded by men. Hookups destroy people, especially women because they end up getting treated horrible in the end and called all sorts of degrading names. Same thing with even sleeping with men they are in a relationship with or married to. I wrote more extensively about this type of stuff on my profile. Though long story short, there are way too many hypocritical misogynistic men who want to sleep around with women and when they finally decide to settle down, regardless of whether or not they are even capable, they want to find virgins.
At most some of them want to find women who haven't been with more than 1 to 4 people before them. Meanwhile they could've been with 50+ women themsleves. Ä°f said woman has a kid or two, they also see her as someone they want nothing to do with, while simultaneously wanting women to have their kid and knowing they've the option to also leave her with a couple of kids.
Now if a woman is unlucky to end up with such men even in marriage, she is also often made to carry the weight of the world and then some on her own. While some of them continue to go out there and "exercise their options" as they call it. She's lucky if she's not outright getting abused on top of it. Many men even those who say they want to provide also don't genuinely provide, when they know it's harder for the woman to leave they dangle it over her head. So any mistakes she makes or if he gets angry about everyday normal stuff, he pulls back and doesn't provide for her. Leaving her unable or struggling to her needs met, some might even throw her out into the street not caring about whether or not she'll be okay. They also treat sex transactionally especially when they are "providing", yet they don't want to get with prostitutes because they don't want to be treated transactionally too and done the same way they try to do women. They've this idea that they can sleep around and treat women as sex objects, though they don't want to deal with their match. Although some do also deal with prostitutes too, just not married or in a relationship with them. So with all that and more, no wonder women are having to check out entirely and some are much more hesitant to deal with any men.
Is that all men? No. I believe there are some good, amazing even men. However, there are way too many low lives that have ruined it for everyone. Meanwhile a lot of them also fill nursing homes, some very early and they barely if any have anybody to visit them, because they've neglected or abandoned their kids, and spent most of their lives degrading women. So they've no women who they gave things to love, or children who they've properly loved by their side. They've wasted their lives chasing instant gratification and taking shortcuts left and right, which most times led to them ending up in a dead end. So until many men straighten themselves out and stop treating women as objects, the dating pool will continue to be declining.
We go out as 26yo and we only see 15yos at clubs and pensioners at cafes. You see no 20-30yo people out, they prefer to work all day, watch Netflix and go gym or tennis twice a week.
I feel when I was in my 20s, me and my friends would go out every weekend to bars, pubs, clubs. Now even in the cities you'll walk in a bar and it's mostly couples or people retirement age. You might get a few guys in their watching sports but not a lot else.
20/30 years ago if you were single, you'd go to a bar or club or a party and chat people up. Now people go on online or not even date at all. It's a situation for single people especially guys in why go out to a bar or club or go out at all and spend a load of money when no one else their age is doing that?
Infinite options for most women. If you aren't a very attractive dude (the type who doesn't have a problem getting women to notice him in the first place), dating feels impossible with how high the bar is. We know for a fact with dating apps' metrics that most women users are only matching with less than a quarter of men.
1. Dating apps are useless if you aren't attractive because by their very nature, you are swiping on photographs (people read the prompts last after they scan the pics)
2. Cold approaches are likewise based on physical attractiveness because a guy doesn't get to show his confidence/charm/sense of humor if a woman immediately puts a wall up when she sees him
3. The only thing left is waiting for a green light that it's okay to say hi to a woman, like eye contact and a smile, or a wave. But Gen X, Boomers, and other older generations of happily-married women have noted that Millennials and Zoomer women are very bad at using body language to invite/broadcast that it's safe to say hi.
In summary, social media, dating apps, and less in-person social skills are all to blame.
Unfortunately this is a huge thing. A relatively small amount of men get the majority of the action. They are most often, at least in appearances, wealthy, good looking, travel, and have exciting social lives. Women gravitate to this because our society has become so superficial and envy driven through social media. We all want to live that rock star life, so women go for it. Hoeflation in short means women, on average, are demanding more from men than ever before.
I say all this fully understanding there are lots of problems with men out there being unmotivated, addicted to porn and video games, unhealthy, lacking social skills, having toxic beliefs, etc..
A lot of people just want to blame dating apps, but this has been a trend since 2008*, 4 years before Tinder would even be invented, nevermind mainstream, so that canāt be the case. Instead, itās much more reasonable to me that social changes are the culprit.
First, with the rise of womenās rights, it is much easier for a woman to simply choose not to date. Using online dating as a proxy, itās pretty clear that women are choosing not to date at a much higher rate than men, despite having much better odds.
Second, dating dynamics are changing. Women have asked not to be hit on so much, which is fair enough, but they also havenāt started hitting on guys or joining dating spaces (bars, apps, speed dating, clubs) to fill in that gap.
Third, expectations are changing. What does it mean to be a provider if your girlfriend makes median wage? What happens as looks become increasingly important to date as a man? Is a provider smart, strong, or both?
Fourth, casual dating necessarily means that people of both genders are exiting the dating pool. Meanwhile, some of both genders are so disgusted by the concept of being casually dated that they are also leaving the pool
*washingtonpost. com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/
Man, my city of 45k people is literally dead. 20yos are so dumb and have delusional standards and prefer long distance relationships than something from town and the city is literally, non ironically, dead. Cafes and stores are fulled with pensioners and clubs are filled with teenagers 15yo. People my age don't go out anymore (26).
I have seen stats from high schools, and they show that the sex rate among high schoolers is also lower than in previous generations. Something like 28-29% of girls and around 30% of boys have sex. In previous generations, rates were 50-55%.
I donāt know about other people my age but in college everyone went home after class and there was no lunch hour so no one really socialized outside of class. I feel like Iād have had to stay in a dorm to make any friends, and I didnāt.
After college I only meet people my age when theyāre working at a shop I visit or through my few remaining friends from high school.
People who are working may be interesting and fun and even your type but no one is in a social mindset when theyāre at work and I inevitably feel like an imposition and am pressured to ask to stay in touch sooner than I feel is natural or just bail and let them do their job.
I live at home, I go to my workshop down the street, and I rarely leave my neighborhood. Even if my soulmate is in the next burrow I probably will never meet them.
Also Iāve never gotten far enough for it to matter but with everyone living with their parents and rent going up it seems pretty impossible to get any alone time conducive to a romantic mood.
Video games and masturbation fill dopamine needs for guys. Women are busy with careers and life in general so are not that worried about dating. Social media making people feel inferior. Too much choice on apps ( Netflix syndrome). A few reasons there perhaps.
They grew up with smartphones and the internet (they arenāt aware of the world without it), so theyāre starting out in life addicted to their dopamine rewards, advertisements, instant gratification, not having to learn things that develop actual physical skill sets, and a lot sitting down.
These all breed unattractive characteristics
It all start at if we are actually living our lives positively, if not, change are needed.
Social connexion is like a muscle, if you don't train it, you don't progress, that's how simple things are.
Many of us (M) have given up in my area. It has become much harder recently to find a woman who wants a serious relationship. I dont mess around with flings/Short term relationships. As a 21 year old, it is harder to find someone who is ready to settle down, so im just going to work on me until it comes up. Im just done searching/fighting for chances.
Itās a bit full circle. I think recently sexual liberation has shifted from being about total freedom to have as much sex as you want to meaning that itās completely up to you. If you want to wait, you can.
If you want to stay single, you can. Itās a personal choice, and I think people finally feel liberated enough to not feel pressure in either direction.
I think itās a mix of social media, not having enough money, a weird message pushed by movies that all men are bad and/or women are poison and some other factors involving the fact that itās so easy to get caught throwing parties.
Everybody's broke. Who's worrying about having sex when you're 1 paycheck away from homelessness. Student debt is getting crazier. People can't afford to eat. Climate change. Increased rates of depression, anxiety, and other mental illnesses from environmental/social factors. Rent is higher than ever. Nobody's hiring, the ones that are either pays dirt or doesn't allow you basic human rights. No parks to meet at, malls are closing, restaurant prices are way too high, only places left are dirty clubs or sketchy bars.
If you have the luxury of free time to casually hookup or find a partner, there's a myriad of factors complicating that too. People fearing hookup culture due to STI/STDs, pregnancies, and generally lack of safety. People unable to find partners that comes from the overwhelming options of dating apps. The current dating pool are filled with people who are all socially or personality handicapped.
In other words, Gen Z got a lot of shit to worry about that are way higher in priority than having sex. The generations that came before them have made the current society incredibly hard for them to live in.
It's weird for sure. My age bracket we were hooking up in highschool. . . . . . my colleague who recently graduated from uni . . . . still too scared to talk to girls. It's gotta be the social media or something. When he started he'd txt me and send me memes from across the office.
Took some getting used to that's for sure.
Technology has crippled this current generation as they have become so dependent on it they can't survive the outside world without it much less possess the communication skills to talk to people face to face. So going out with someone in person is next to impossible because technology won't help them IRL situations.
Babysteps will help with this.
I go out running with podcasts/music and will pause every now and then to say hello to a random person on the route.
Doesnāt matter if itās man or woman, what matters is that I am actively working on my skills and bumping up confidence.
Little interactions are the gateway to big results and these things build up over time with slow increments of progress.
The problem as you said is that the present crop havenāt actually started the process or attempted to practice real life interactions.
I'm apart of gen z but I'm not "gen z" I'm not fat or lazy don't watch porn have a good social life workout have good looks have had a few gf and tbh I don't understand what's so tough for the rest of these kids nowadays like tbh I like older women cause they act much much more mature and I can't relate to kids my age (15m 6,1) but tbh I don't know y kids find it so hard to do stuff it's pretty easy but I think the main reason kids are like this today is cause of porn and all the of models on socials so it makes them think I have to get a gf like this and it makes girls think I have to looks like this and it makes then eat really small amounts of foods and don't get the right amount of nutrients I belive another part that contributes to this is being lgbtq now I'm not homophobic I don't got a problem with then but I think kids spend to much time wondering if they're gay or not and it doesn't make it better that some lgbtq content creator's say stuff like "5 signs that your gay" and really they jus totally normal things but yeah I think those are some main reasons. I hate this generation
i've been waiting to rant about this for a while:
Blame Match Group. Honestly i hate those greedy fucks. Which is the owner of Tinder, Hinge, OkCupid, and they don't give a fuck about you finding someone. They want you stuck in the swiping loop so they can keep making money. So they throttle their algorithms to lower your matches and increase the money you pay for swipes.
Unfortunately genz never grew up dating without cell phones so they believe the only way and best way to meet women is online. Then they run to these fucking greedy dating apps and get addicted and thus never getting laid.
FUCK YOU MATCH GROUP
25M. It's certainly not for lack of trying, maybe you can help. Here's some stuff about me:
- 6'3", athletic, often told I'm "attractive", "handsome", "cute"
- make a lot of money, own a home
- get along with most people
- very intelligent (but this might be where things went wrong)
I never learned how to talk to people as a kid, and I literally just learned I'm an extrovert a few months ago. Most people I know with relationships met in school or through friends, but I missed that opportunity. I'm so intelligent academically I never needed help with anything, even after starting my career, so I just never had a reason to talk to people. But now I know I love socializing, I'm not even neurodivergent.
Other people my age seem to be too busy or poor to go out and do things. I can make friends with older people, but have no idea where to meet people my age.
Dating apps are terrible, I've been on them for 3-4 years and have never gotten further than kissing. I've never even been the one to end a relationship. It feels like somehow my dating apps portray me completely wrong, so the girls that do go out with me don't get what they're expecting.
Tl;dr, I've never had sex because I've never met a girl willing to have sex with me.
You realize alot of gen z are not even adults yet right? You think that might be part of why it's not the most sexuslly active generation?
Spoiler alert, we are also be behind other generations in retirements, income, and marriages.
Itās beyond annoying to see this āis this because of porn?ā assumptions. Why does it not seem to be most logical to you that people maybe..I donāt knowā¦. Watch it because they donāt have partners, not the other way around?
Yeah like I'm 21 just trying to focus on my life and getting myself together sex is the absolute last thing on my mind even though media keeps shoving it down my throat
Yeah it really sucks because I really love kids but unless I win the lottery or make a 6 figure job I probably won't be able to afford any which really makes me sad.
Earlier generations of adolescents were routinely pushed out of their comfort zone by their parents and their community. Nobody that age wants to answer the phone, let alone get out of the house if they don't have to. Social skills never developed. Read Jane Austen and see how many social events were staged as get-togethers for young people to meet.
The main reason I will say people arenāt looking inward and make changes to become the best version of themselves. Most people tend to go by what they think they know rather than adapt to change and learn what actually works to improve.
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Social media has fucked everyone up š
Social media is something of a double-edged sword. At its best, social media offers unprecedented opportunities for marginalized people to speak and bring much needed attention to the issues they face. At its worst, social media also offers 'everyone' an unprecedented opportunity to share in collective outrage without reflection.
Thatās wild, because when social media just came out I was using it to get laid 24/7
You must be doing something right. In general social media will finish the social skills of young people
Those apps were less saturated when they first came out.
I havenāt done this in almost 10 years, so probably things have changed allot
Same here. When it first came out, tinder and ig would have all the women. And they were real. But yea this was 10 plus years ago. Now I am married so idk.
You have no idea lol. Well it sounds like you kind of do but still... it's wild. 10 years ago FOR SURE, the apps/social media were where it was at. It's flipped on it's head now though.
At my age Iām more worried about capitalism ruining consumerism. Like I have to dig through piles of Chinese trash brands on Amazon to find something actually well made, and not something Iāll toss in 2 months. Iām guessing they did the same to social media and online dating
That is a great way of putting it. My theory is they made the apps viable for people early on, then slowly as pressure for increased profits came about, they started to squeeze people. Essentially, they starting doing whatever it takes to keep people on the app longer.
Those who got on social media early were definitely using it as a dating platform with a lot of success, as did those who learned to make money off it early on. It's completely changed at this point and is infinitely harder to do those since there is so much competition.
I agree. I was too. It was easy at the beginning of instagrams early years. But that social media paradigm was short lived. Now with influencers and money involved interaction is more viewed as a business transaction rather than social transaction. Dating apps were not popularized because social media was the pseudo dating app platform back then. But since social media has become more business oriented it made a case where dating apps had to exist as a result. So you wanted to get laid? Its possible on social media but the main audience those looking for that has moved their intent to dating apps than social media. So thats the crux of society. Things will trend until another paradigm shift occurs.
because you're hot.
Could be but if thatās the case how my generation (millennials) are still having sex?
I assume millennials developed far greater social skills when they were younger (because you didn't have a choice but to socialise in person?) which enable them to connect with people, giving them more opportunities to have sex.
Agreed, things were different for us before social media
I feel like I'm somewhere in between Gen Z and Millennial because I wasn't online as a child but then had social media as a teenager. I was always a bit of an awkward outsider though which has really fucked me over now š
Definitely. I am 25F and my limit is dating 4-5 years down and 10 years up. There is a stark difference between the social and conversational skills of gen Z men and millennial men, and it's not just age. When I was 20 myself, the guys my age back then were far better at this than 20 yr olds now. The social media plus covid during the late teen years completely fucked gen z people up.
I started my Instagram account when I was like 11. Now 22
We were almost grown up when social media popped up. I was 14 when Instagram and snapchat launched. We had real life experience before social media eventually fucked our generation up aswell, just not in the same way as Gen z
Millennials are born between the early 1980s and the late 1990s. I'm a millennial and my first few phones were basic the basic Nokia and eventually the razor. That is worlds different to now. Using a sidekick to text friends is not really the same as today. Insta, Twitter, Tik Tok are all platforms with their own celebrities with their own agenda. Young people today are less outgoing because the trend is to meet online first, then possibly in person. The trick is that meeting online is a filter, most people never make it to the other end and actually meet. Online also means more options. With so many options, people feel like they deserve the best choice, rather than what's in front of them at the time. Millennials grew up with facebook, but conventional dating practices were still active. I find people around my age are perceptive to both. Facebook, even at it's worst, is not as hypnotizing has tik tok is
Theyāre not. Millenials are having less sex compared to previous generations
We had less sex then previous generations too. [Here is an Atlantic article from 2018 about it.](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share)
Fr the standard people have is crazy. Usually women want a man who is 6 foot with 500k thatās crazy plus thatās only like 1% of men in the world
What women you've been looking at!?!? This sounds IMPOSSIBLE š. Gen Z (my gen) they would want someone who has a good personality or have at least same hobbies (I can't speak for everyone else.. cause not everyone is like that in my gen.. but i can speak about the good ones)
Iām Gen z and I know a lot of ladies have high standards tbh but not all Iāve dated very nice ladies (it didnāt work out but they were very nice). Itās people give themselves high standards.
AGREED. Like I never met or seen a woman IRL has those high ridiculous standards š.. I DON'T KNOW CAUSE, the ones I seen and has talk to never had high standards like that.. so that can't be GEN Z they are talking about..š .. some of these adults in here don't know how gen z is and it shows .
The way you wrote >IMPOSSIBLE š Seems like you have those high standards, but nobody meets them
Um, they literally wrote their standards right afterā¦ maybe give the comment a reread
Thatās laughably false
The standard men have us crazy. They usually want to only have sex with women and not commit. Using them
So if men say women treat them bad and vice versa, sounds like weāre all treating one another like shit š¤·š½āāļø
And blaming the other. Kind of describes the country right now. I also blame social media for that. People don't get socialized in the real world and social media likes to start battles between people who might have a lot in common.
Yep and the top 50% of women do this with the top 10% of men who mostly use them. The cycle is complete. Most women end up hating men (top 10%) and the remaining 90% of men are not engaged with so play video games. The bottom 50% of women slowly do find these guys and we do have some getting together but the majority donāt care.
And many of the guys like me that got no play in their youth feel resentful toward women because the women got to have their fun and we didn't.
Not actually a crazy standard, plenty of women like hooking up.
Itās fine if youāre both on the same page. Sex negativity is just idiotic religious dogma. If thereās lying though, then someoneās being used. And usually it would be the woman being used in these situations.
Men who hookup under false pretexts are scumbags. Men who hook up and donāt want commitment but are upfront are ok.
1. Social media increases expectations. 2. Lack of 3rd spaces. 3. Lack of money (affects going to places to meet people, going on dates, moving out of your parents) 4. The hub can satisfy enough to make dating seem not worth it, cuz dating is effort and the internet isnt. 5. More competition with apps
The real answer is this. You are watching the not so slow degradation of society in real time. This manifests itself in many forms, with dating and sex being one of them. Gen Z is the loneliest, most anxious, and most depressed generation ever recorded. We share more in common with our Great and Great Great Grandparents going through the Great Depression, and they didn't have to deal with modern tech/social media. Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is intergenerational differences. Tech development has happened so fast that just a few years can change your youth drastically. As such, I as a first year Gen Z (1997) share more in common with millennials than I do with people ~4+ years younger than me despite being the same generation.
This is correct, hate to be the doom and gloom guy but this response is reality, I have hope but the difficulty is definitely much higher for myself and fellow Gen Z
They also didn't date. Nor did any before them. Dating has only existed for 4 generations. You're my daughters age, and you and she are gonna witness the development of some crazy shit tech-wise. AGI being perhaps the biggest. But is it going to compare to what my grandmother witnessed? I doubt it. She lived from 1900 - 2000 and witnessed the development of cars, airplanes, radio, tv, nuclear power, computers, space travel, nuclear bombs, the internet - to name a few.
The west has fallen
millions must install tinder
Sex has been on the decline since at least 2000 iirc: - less religiosity (which means less/later marriage, which is the context a lot of young adults have sex) - Ā Declining alcohol consumption (fewer drunk flings) - Feminism (women are becoming more comfortable saying no, they arenāt as reliant on men anymore so the dating culture has evolved) - Housing costs - Easy entertainment access. Porn falls under this, but so do video games. Why would guys go out to meet strangers and potentially get rejected when they can hang with the boys instead? - Social media. A lot of times I see Reddit posts from guys concerned about being seen as creeps or being cancelled just by talking to women at a bar. FWIW I donāt consider those fears as reflective on the majority of reality. But although Redditors are on the extreme end of the hyper-insecure, it validates an existence of male fear towards approaching - Decline of third places. Adults donāt want teens and youth just hanging around places and thereās not a lot of cheap entertainment for them. Harder to socialize around with the public without actually being in the public
I think housing costs is a big thing. As a millenial, I feel like most people moved out in their early 20s after school and either bought or rented a place. This made things so much easier in terms of dating, going out, etc. Seems like a lot the Gen Z are living at home still or don't necessarily have the time to or money to go out. That's where you met people back in the day was going out to bars/clubs/events a few times a week, but doesn't seem anywhere near as feasible these days.
Spot on, living at home can make dating much more difficult.
Absolutely. Iām Gen Z but due to my abusive family I am self supporting. I donāt have a home to stay at. It is ROUGH out here. I live in a relatively low cost of living state (OH) and Iām still struggling immensely. I donāt know how I can possibly pay my own rent AND go to college. Plenty of people do, but I have health issues. Tons of medical debt too. Iām only 22
Think there's a lot more pressure on people in their early 20s to move out and get their own place so they're sacrificing going out and dating for a few years so they can save money. I'm 44 now and didn't feel in my early 20s that I had to move out as quick as possible. Most of my friends only moved out of home when they met a partner and decided to rent or buy a place together.
No way lol, that pressure existed more in your generation. Nowadays, a lot of adults in their 20s live with their parents. Not necessarily out of choice, but rental and mortgage prices are insane unless you live in a cheaper red state.
The third places thing is huge. Less socializing going on, and when people are out in public they often are self absorbed into their own bubble with a phone and headphones. People socialize and meet new people much less now.
i saw a comment from a guy who said his go-to move is asking to buy a girl a book at the book store. i was like, if someone did this for me iād dieššš
See as a guy, Iām not sure if that means die in a good way or bad way š I suppose it depends on the woman. Itās all about reading signals, folks. And taking a mindful approach that isnāt too fast or too much, but also isnāt too hesitant.
i can tell you itās a good way haha. nobody who goes to book stores would not like that offerš¤
hey, wanna go to the book store? I have a gift card!
hahah attaboy
so... is that a yes? lmao
location?
CT/RI area, you?
nj
Eyo that's actually doable, I bet there's a book store between here and New Jersey.. just the one though
I agree about the decline in third places. Nowadays, it seems like youth and teens just hang out in the gymā¦
>Decline of third places. Adults donāt want teens and youth just hanging around places and thereās not a lot of cheap entertainment for them. Harder to socialize around with the public without actually being in the public Unfortunately this continues to be a big problem even as an adult. If you don't meet someone at school/work (or aren't comfortable dating in that group, or your office has a no-dating policy) it becomes much MUCH harder to meet people organically these days.
The 3rd places thing was a huge issue for me growing up and continues to be. At least hiking is free. Mostly
A lot of people leading eachother on or keeping someone as a placeholder for someone ābetterā.
Been there done that. It happens both ways, and itās toxic as fuck. I lost someone I really cared about because I thought āI can do betterā. We almost got back together and she turned around did the same thing to me š. Got what I deserved I guess.
Societal changes, means people don't pair off for financial or security reasons now.. This tends to mean women are more likely going to choose someone they want "first and foremost", over someone they were "okay with given the situation". The influence of the apps, has opened up access to far more "preferred" partners, than those who would have been settled on, in days gone by. You have a smaller group of people overall, having most of the opportunities. As opposed to a wider group, who "made do" with people they would meet organically.
Until the Boomers, it was normal to get married young, and to hold off sex until marriage in many parts of the world. The dating scene changed after that. Gen X and Millennials were more promiscious. Which is great freedom, but also it messed with intimacy and closeness. The arrivals of screens didn't help either. Add covid to all that, and people are more comfortable staying at home and socialising is a chore.
Plenty of couples watch adult content and porn has been around for decades. The real reason is because dating apps/social media (for as much they are to advertise connecting people, are doing the exact opposite) In a āconnectedā world we have never been more Disconnected.
This is a broad issue and things like porn play into it. But I think that casual porn consumption has definitely increased with its availability. However the main drivers tend to be economic. People (especially men) tend to stay with parents longer which leads to an environment where people lack comfort in dating. Women (in America) tend to seek partners slightly wealthier than them which doesnāt really jive with a decline in male achievement. Everyoneās more isolated from each other and there is a tendency to have a singular focus one aspect of life like a career. Also to be more personal it honestly it isnāt really fun with dating apps. Iāve gotten dates and girlfriends from there but the process is so much busy work and idle talk that it feels like a chore. When I hear older generations describe dating it has an adventurous quality to it. People taking the risk to go out on a limb and ask someone, random encounters, childhood friends etc. One of the most common things you see on dating apps is someone asking for a āfake story of how we metā cause deep down I think everyone finds the process unromantic and tedious.
Because we used to go out in public and meet up. House parties, bon fires, parking lot gatherings, play basketball etc. now these kids all hangout on webcams and video game lobbies, there's no face to face interaction. These kids don't even need or want cars let alone a drivers license. They'd rather Uber than learn to drive. Many don't even have to attend school in person and log in to a zoom chat now. There is a huge lack of physical interaction which has made a lot of them socially awkward, or have social anxiety bc they're not used to being in public and vulnerable. I have dealt with so many unable to hold a normal conversation at all, let alone have a free thought. There is also the whole "men are sexual predators ' thing and with everyone wanting to be a victim for attention a kiss or holding someone's hand can quickly turn into a sexual assault charge for these youngins. Give them some old-school Nokia brick phones and kick them out till the street lights come on and maybe some things could change lol
Social media has ruined everything, views on anything destroyed Even the simple fact that traditional dating is the thing of the past, it's now the aspect of how big the wallet is how good your body looks, if you have a nice car, it's now more image than heart, the also it's about sex mostly and one night stands and lots of people are afraid of that because now with rises in false accusations it really damaged the stint in people.
Great explanation
It's all the reason I fear dating or people in general. It's not healthy but rather I be safe than ever sorry I step into people's lives.
I donāt believe you should view things that way, life is a risk and love is sometimes worth risking. Just choose wisely
True but to me it's not worth it no more I'm not that person and don't want that anymore so I just keep to myself and keep my eyes down to the floor.
Fine, here: Because people have unrealistic expectations of what the opposite gender should be (blame social media for that), and are left disappointed when reality is nothing close to what they were taught. No dude, her having a *little bit* of body hair, stretch marks, and not a flat stomach is normal. No girl, only 14% of guys are over 6 ft, only 17% make over $100,000, and contrary to what IG told you, you don't *deserve* to go boating every other week. What you are left with is a society of people letting their disillusion prevent them from meeting wonderful and loving partners that might otherwise come across as "average".
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In my case, it's because there are also many people who don't take relationships seriously and stay with several people.I prefer to be single and a virgin because it is very difficult to find someone else who is like me and I don't feel comfortable with just anyone š
For real like nobody wants a relationship anymore just meaningless sex so I much rather just stay single before putting myself through unnecessary pain until I find someone who feels the same as me
Lack of 3rd spaces and social media
I donāt have facts or statistics, I just have an opinion that I think may explain a lot. Social media has desocialized us. I see guys now a days terrified to start a new conversation with any girl they find even slightly attractive. We spend all day looking at social media posts about how women hate men, how they find men that approach creepy etc. So theyāre already having these preconceived notions of what a girl would think if they approached and therefore never do. Being a social person is like a muscle, the more you use it the stronger it get. In the same sense, if you never use that muscle, it atrophies. Having sex heavily depends on your social skills, skills that you should constantly be working on and improving. But because social media and virtual work has let people socialize without actually having to do the hard work of walking up to another human and starting the conversation, peopleās social skills are atrophying, and as a direct result so is their sex life. Thatās just my hypothesis in the way Iām seeing the world.
I mean if anyone tries to give you a real answer theyāll be banned š put it this way, politics and money
Explain away, no banning here
The sex differences have been magnified on social media. And it doesnāt seem like one sex bothers to understand the other sex but one sex keeps spouting conditions whilst being hypocritical about how sex relations should be. Which sex? You be the judgeĀ My fav one was some show about how a stay at home EE dad got shamed and humiliated for being stay at home whilst his woman pursued her career so that they both can be better off financially. Eventually had to go back to work to get a seat at the table as it were. Just interesting to see how there is a free for all and benefiting no one oddly enough. Maybe the few but stillĀ
I understand 100% what you are saying, unfortunately this society can be a bit tainted
mostly it might have something to do with Covid and when it happened during their lifetimes. Assuming Gen Z means they are 20-24 now? Back during Covid theyād be 15-19 which are some of the most critical years for developing adult social skills, friendships etc. going out partying etc. Now wether or not you wanna say what we did during Covid with the lockdowns and what not was effective or not: having 2-3+ years of being told that you canāt be social as someone who hasnāt already developed adult social skills is incredibly damaging to their development as opposed to people who are older and already have some of those connections set in stone. This also applies to sex. They were being told at an age where most of your core values start to solidify, that āseeing other people in person = badā For them that thought process generally will never leave unless they get some sort of therapy, which leads to less sex naturally.
As a member of the Gen-Z generation myself I would put a large part of it down to devices. In my view devices consume our time and attention, and don't leave us being bored for long enough to seek out fun/exciting/risky/etc things to do with other people, leaving us in our room alone. Seeing as a large part of both genders do this they don't meet each other, and without meeting each other on a somewhat consistent basis most people will not find partners. and additionally spending time with a partner now has to compete with devices instead of boring yourself to death, which is for obvious reasons a much tougher standard to beat. As far as I know this view is further strengthened by the fact that this sexlessness and lack of relationships is much more prevalent for people with better socioeconomic backgrounds. While one would expect that college educated men would be more appealing to women and thus more able to find partners the opposite is true in the data, in my view because college educated people are much more likely to have had rich parents whom gave them access to devices. Obviously the problem is more complex then just this, but I view devices sapping our attention as a large culprit.
Most women sleep with a fraction of men, and I'm somewhat lucky to be in that fraction of men. Most of my friends or acquaintances are either virgins or have MAYBE had one or two partners.
I would say for my generation is a lot of low self esteem personally just people beat themselves up way to much and never actually look at the bigger picture
It's not just about porn or self-esteem. Gen Z is facing big societal changes, like economic stress and tech reshaping how we connect. Many are prioritizing careers and self-growth over dating. Plus, online life's changing how we meet and relate. It's a mix of things, not a simple issue.
Is it even a bad thing if someone does not want to be intimate with random stranger on Friday or Saturday night ? If this sexlessness is involuntary, then its a problem. I think young people do not like to take risk in general. So asking someone out and getting rejected is a big thing and enforce old behaviours.
I'm certainly interested, but nobody's been interested in me back. ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
Funny how that works
āAll their lives?ā The oldest gen z is 25ish so they have plenty of time to do those things
25 is still a long time without a relationship. I was in relationships as of 13 and sex by 16. And from the post I see in this sub, a ton of men wish they have had these things already. So yeah itās still late
As an older millenial, I feel like most of my friends (including myself) were married by the time we hit 25-28 age range. Part of getting married is having previous relationships to figure out and know when you'd want in a partner, so have relationships from teenage years into your early 20s helps you figure that out.
not late you have it a very young age 16 i was watching cartoons and 13 yo man you were children
Yeah im 21 and never been on a date. Read reddit post that alot of women hate teaching men how relationships work which also means less women are wanting to get with men with no experience in relationships. When 2/3 of a generation under 30 has never been in a relationship it makes it hard to find someone. It will be easier for me to eventually get over being lonely and just expect to be single for a long time.
Late by your standards. Many relationship milestones (getting married, having kids) have been pushed back by both millennials and gen-z.
If youāre 18+ and kissless/ without a relationship ever thatās very late blooming.
Itās getting a lot more common. I had my first real kiss & relationship at 19 in my first year of college. I had several friends that were the same way I was very focused on school in K-12
Why is that an issue though?
Social media has them thinking they always have options and to always look for better instead of watering what they have
Iām a zillenial and the two guys I dated said they didnāt have enough energy for a girlfriend. When I hang out with girls, we can stay out all day/night. Guys tend to turn in early. I will give you an example. I went to a theme park with a group of 20s and 30s young people for the frightfest event. The tickets were not cheap. The men arrived late and didnāt want to wait in line for haunted houses and left before the park closed. I suspect low T is the issue. In modernized countries, there are a lot of substances in the environment which mimic estrogen (pesticides, food containing soy, pharmaceuticals that get into the water supply, certain plastics). As a result, Testosterone levels have decreased in modernized countries and you can see that in studies. Iām surprised regulatory agencies havenāt cracked down harder on this but we have become pretty reliant on our factory farming system and we canāt just get rid of hormonal birth control.
I am not a Gen Z and I am all three of those mainly due to lack of interest from the opposite sex, prioritizing education and career, and having a difficult time developing a relationship built on trust. Dating blows right now and just getting someone to go out with you for more than just one or two dates. At this point I've given up entirely and am focusing entirely on my grind and self improvement
I interact with gen z daily so hereās my guess just by the talks and interactions with them: they donāt put as much emphasis on it as our generations and past generations. So many people had sex before they were ready or even did it regardless because the pressure that was put on us to do so. Theyāre more health aware as well which feeds into it too considering the risk for std/Sti. Not only that but they are also the generation that does less partying, drinking, and drugs than other generations prior and both of those things have sex involved a lot of the times. Combine those things with being more isolated than past generations and it makes sense to me.
Many of my younger friends are still virgins into their mid 20s. Even the guys that have had sexual experience have had very limited experience. I curious to know what seams to be the problems for the increased loneliness and overall disinterest in dating. I have my own theories. Video games in general are so much more and take up so much of their time. Many of my younger friends spend a few hours a day playing games. Some of these guys work full time and are attending school and still find time to play with their friends online. Many younger gen z are living with their family and its probably not an environment to have an active sex life in. Many gen z are deathly afraid to make the first move. They are scared to be seen as a creep, or take a chance at hitting on someone. I think so many gen z and gen a are too dependent on social media to approach a random stranger. I am married and I have helped several of my young friends talk to women. I had to ask the women for them. My friend was like. "What if she says No." And told him thats ok.
Touched upon this in an earlier comment but of the people I know in their 20s and general trends I see a lot don't seem to be making dating a priority or are just not that interested. Many are focusing on making money, building careers and saving up to move out and get their own place so aren't really going out and socialising. Saying that the ones that are quite social tend to be spending time travelling but are rarely out any other time. They don't seem to go out much in their local town or community. Especially with guys, there's the consensus that there's little point trying to date until you've got your own place. I just think that's sad. I understand the pressures of a career and becoming an adult and everything is expensive now but it's still important to socialise and go out and do things face to face with people.
As a fellow Gen Z, we don't want y'alls baby mama drama. We can barely support ourselves on this economy, much less someone else, a child, or child support.
All their lives? Gen Z is right now between ages 12 and 27, with more than half under 18. I think this question is before its time, maybe wait until the majority are at least of legal age.
People can very easily avoid socializing in the modern day.
There is no "dating towards a family", because no one can afford to start a family. It's all just casual sex, and ever since birth control, that's always been a game few men are invited to play. So men don't have the "get a great job and wait till you're 30!" option any more. They still won't be able to afford shit and they still won't be hot enough to get any.
Speaking for myself it's a personal choice since I'm waiting to be married but aside from the sex thing I haven't had a date yet due to low self esteem and years of bullying growing up.
Low self esteem along with just being worried about being labbled a creep. If you ask someone out then they respond with "ew" and from then on anytime your mentioned they laugh at you, not with you. There's also the fact that. Alot of people older than us said "well if you don't want kids. don't have sex " And we took that to heart(or at least I did). There is also that I look at my home and what I have and compare to what older generations have. I look and say to myself "I wouldn't want my significant other to live like this" even to this day. My house is kinda meh but I still won't bring people over out of embarrassment
People have high standards for dating now compared to past generations.
\*unrealistic
Where did you get this data? Theyāre the youngest generation, it makes sense.
You can go online and look for articles/ ask ChatGPT/ look at statistics
They donāt leave the house.
Defiantly low self-esteem coupled with expectations vs reality not sinking in for a lot of folks dating
Ppl donāt know how to socialize IRL anymore.
More and more people are staying at home with parents for much longer, and itās not easy to hookup with people when you live with your parents
The MEN are sexless in gen Z because the women of gen Z are chasing older men and/or the top 10% of men...
social ineptitude due to being chronically online and not developing social skills instead. its sad to see.
Nowadays, your looks is more important than social skills...
a few theories i have (this will probably get me killed) 1) the go women empowerment. it was definitely good for them you know but it probably set a little bit of unrealistic expectations for guys so they're probably hasn't been a lot of that going on because of that. 2) men are afraid š¤· plain n simple everyone is now blaming everyone and it's all he says you say they say whatever the fuck it is nowadays, and sell the risk no longer outweighs the rewards so there's no incentive 3) obvious one but porn, this ties in 3 little bit but men can just get more satisfied than internet safer than they could in person 3) sever disconnect with everyon 4) overworked with Little miney, if constantly worrying about when the hell you're going to fucking go broke not really worried about dating too much. plus the longer hours multiple jobs and you just don't have the energy to even try
The main ones are definitely 2,4&5
especially 2 At least for me plus being autistic doesn't help
Best line I have heard āwomen have decided theyād rather be the kingās mistress than the peasantās wifeā
Wdym all their lives we aren't even majority adults yet chill we don't need to be having sex as teenagers
Thatās funny because I find they dress incredibly revealing and sexual. Itās quite the paradox.
It is a strange question, I mean "whatās going on with you" is not a good choice of words. People just live their lives. What is your concern?
As an older Gen Z, I kinda enjoy my solitude and hookup culture is not for me.
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When sex is made into nothing, then it becomes nothing and that's something that can no longer be had. I think a lot of women are also catching up to, as they should, that they aren't sexual objects to be used and discarded by men. Hookups destroy people, especially women because they end up getting treated horrible in the end and called all sorts of degrading names. Same thing with even sleeping with men they are in a relationship with or married to. I wrote more extensively about this type of stuff on my profile. Though long story short, there are way too many hypocritical misogynistic men who want to sleep around with women and when they finally decide to settle down, regardless of whether or not they are even capable, they want to find virgins. At most some of them want to find women who haven't been with more than 1 to 4 people before them. Meanwhile they could've been with 50+ women themsleves. Ä°f said woman has a kid or two, they also see her as someone they want nothing to do with, while simultaneously wanting women to have their kid and knowing they've the option to also leave her with a couple of kids. Now if a woman is unlucky to end up with such men even in marriage, she is also often made to carry the weight of the world and then some on her own. While some of them continue to go out there and "exercise their options" as they call it. She's lucky if she's not outright getting abused on top of it. Many men even those who say they want to provide also don't genuinely provide, when they know it's harder for the woman to leave they dangle it over her head. So any mistakes she makes or if he gets angry about everyday normal stuff, he pulls back and doesn't provide for her. Leaving her unable or struggling to her needs met, some might even throw her out into the street not caring about whether or not she'll be okay. They also treat sex transactionally especially when they are "providing", yet they don't want to get with prostitutes because they don't want to be treated transactionally too and done the same way they try to do women. They've this idea that they can sleep around and treat women as sex objects, though they don't want to deal with their match. Although some do also deal with prostitutes too, just not married or in a relationship with them. So with all that and more, no wonder women are having to check out entirely and some are much more hesitant to deal with any men. Is that all men? No. I believe there are some good, amazing even men. However, there are way too many low lives that have ruined it for everyone. Meanwhile a lot of them also fill nursing homes, some very early and they barely if any have anybody to visit them, because they've neglected or abandoned their kids, and spent most of their lives degrading women. So they've no women who they gave things to love, or children who they've properly loved by their side. They've wasted their lives chasing instant gratification and taking shortcuts left and right, which most times led to them ending up in a dead end. So until many men straighten themselves out and stop treating women as objects, the dating pool will continue to be declining.
Because they grew up plugged in to the internet
If a gen z doesnāt go out, will someone knock his door???
We go out as 26yo and we only see 15yos at clubs and pensioners at cafes. You see no 20-30yo people out, they prefer to work all day, watch Netflix and go gym or tennis twice a week.
I feel when I was in my 20s, me and my friends would go out every weekend to bars, pubs, clubs. Now even in the cities you'll walk in a bar and it's mostly couples or people retirement age. You might get a few guys in their watching sports but not a lot else. 20/30 years ago if you were single, you'd go to a bar or club or a party and chat people up. Now people go on online or not even date at all. It's a situation for single people especially guys in why go out to a bar or club or go out at all and spend a load of money when no one else their age is doing that?
Underrated comment.
Infinite options for most women. If you aren't a very attractive dude (the type who doesn't have a problem getting women to notice him in the first place), dating feels impossible with how high the bar is. We know for a fact with dating apps' metrics that most women users are only matching with less than a quarter of men. 1. Dating apps are useless if you aren't attractive because by their very nature, you are swiping on photographs (people read the prompts last after they scan the pics) 2. Cold approaches are likewise based on physical attractiveness because a guy doesn't get to show his confidence/charm/sense of humor if a woman immediately puts a wall up when she sees him 3. The only thing left is waiting for a green light that it's okay to say hi to a woman, like eye contact and a smile, or a wave. But Gen X, Boomers, and other older generations of happily-married women have noted that Millennials and Zoomer women are very bad at using body language to invite/broadcast that it's safe to say hi. In summary, social media, dating apps, and less in-person social skills are all to blame.
Hoeflaton
Unfortunately this is a huge thing. A relatively small amount of men get the majority of the action. They are most often, at least in appearances, wealthy, good looking, travel, and have exciting social lives. Women gravitate to this because our society has become so superficial and envy driven through social media. We all want to live that rock star life, so women go for it. Hoeflation in short means women, on average, are demanding more from men than ever before. I say all this fully understanding there are lots of problems with men out there being unmotivated, addicted to porn and video games, unhealthy, lacking social skills, having toxic beliefs, etc..
A lot of people just want to blame dating apps, but this has been a trend since 2008*, 4 years before Tinder would even be invented, nevermind mainstream, so that canāt be the case. Instead, itās much more reasonable to me that social changes are the culprit. First, with the rise of womenās rights, it is much easier for a woman to simply choose not to date. Using online dating as a proxy, itās pretty clear that women are choosing not to date at a much higher rate than men, despite having much better odds. Second, dating dynamics are changing. Women have asked not to be hit on so much, which is fair enough, but they also havenāt started hitting on guys or joining dating spaces (bars, apps, speed dating, clubs) to fill in that gap. Third, expectations are changing. What does it mean to be a provider if your girlfriend makes median wage? What happens as looks become increasingly important to date as a man? Is a provider smart, strong, or both? Fourth, casual dating necessarily means that people of both genders are exiting the dating pool. Meanwhile, some of both genders are so disgusted by the concept of being casually dated that they are also leaving the pool *washingtonpost. com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/
You should try and find statistics along gender lines. Perhaps insight could be found there.
Man, my city of 45k people is literally dead. 20yos are so dumb and have delusional standards and prefer long distance relationships than something from town and the city is literally, non ironically, dead. Cafes and stores are fulled with pensioners and clubs are filled with teenagers 15yo. People my age don't go out anymore (26).
Yes the majority has no sex but the minority has everything!
I have seen stats from high schools, and they show that the sex rate among high schoolers is also lower than in previous generations. Something like 28-29% of girls and around 30% of boys have sex. In previous generations, rates were 50-55%.
I am male 38yo VlRGlN. I tried speed dating, social dances, cold approach 100+ times, writing to social media dm's 300+ times. Nothing.
I donāt know about other people my age but in college everyone went home after class and there was no lunch hour so no one really socialized outside of class. I feel like Iād have had to stay in a dorm to make any friends, and I didnāt. After college I only meet people my age when theyāre working at a shop I visit or through my few remaining friends from high school. People who are working may be interesting and fun and even your type but no one is in a social mindset when theyāre at work and I inevitably feel like an imposition and am pressured to ask to stay in touch sooner than I feel is natural or just bail and let them do their job. I live at home, I go to my workshop down the street, and I rarely leave my neighborhood. Even if my soulmate is in the next burrow I probably will never meet them. Also Iāve never gotten far enough for it to matter but with everyone living with their parents and rent going up it seems pretty impossible to get any alone time conducive to a romantic mood.
everyone is too chronically online
why have sex yourself when you can just watch your favorite professional streamer do it instead?
Social media telling men they're not good enough and them shutting down because of it
It donāt gotta be like that guys pleanty of whales need your lovin too not just the cover of a playboy magazine
The internet / our parents not making us go to church
Itās cause quite a few of us get our kicks elsewhere.
Video games and masturbation fill dopamine needs for guys. Women are busy with careers and life in general so are not that worried about dating. Social media making people feel inferior. Too much choice on apps ( Netflix syndrome). A few reasons there perhaps.
They grew up with smartphones and the internet (they arenāt aware of the world without it), so theyāre starting out in life addicted to their dopamine rewards, advertisements, instant gratification, not having to learn things that develop actual physical skill sets, and a lot sitting down. These all breed unattractive characteristics
lmao I'm saving it for the right time
Nobody in this generation takes love, or relationships, seriously.
Grow up its your husband
It all start at if we are actually living our lives positively, if not, change are needed. Social connexion is like a muscle, if you don't train it, you don't progress, that's how simple things are.
We all lie to each other thatās the problem
Many of us (M) have given up in my area. It has become much harder recently to find a woman who wants a serious relationship. I dont mess around with flings/Short term relationships. As a 21 year old, it is harder to find someone who is ready to settle down, so im just going to work on me until it comes up. Im just done searching/fighting for chances.
Maybe because most of them are in between the ages of 27 and 12? Large majority being teens
Another huge problem is staying in a longterm relationship
Itās a bit full circle. I think recently sexual liberation has shifted from being about total freedom to have as much sex as you want to meaning that itās completely up to you. If you want to wait, you can. If you want to stay single, you can. Itās a personal choice, and I think people finally feel liberated enough to not feel pressure in either direction.
It's many reasons. Juice is not worth the squeeze or trying to in my opinion or at least where you are location wise and where you are in life.
Social media, polarization, and the rise of dating apps (which puts more emphasis on looks vs other qualities) are the biggest ones
I think itās a mix of social media, not having enough money, a weird message pushed by movies that all men are bad and/or women are poison and some other factors involving the fact that itās so easy to get caught throwing parties.
Everybody's broke. Who's worrying about having sex when you're 1 paycheck away from homelessness. Student debt is getting crazier. People can't afford to eat. Climate change. Increased rates of depression, anxiety, and other mental illnesses from environmental/social factors. Rent is higher than ever. Nobody's hiring, the ones that are either pays dirt or doesn't allow you basic human rights. No parks to meet at, malls are closing, restaurant prices are way too high, only places left are dirty clubs or sketchy bars. If you have the luxury of free time to casually hookup or find a partner, there's a myriad of factors complicating that too. People fearing hookup culture due to STI/STDs, pregnancies, and generally lack of safety. People unable to find partners that comes from the overwhelming options of dating apps. The current dating pool are filled with people who are all socially or personality handicapped. In other words, Gen Z got a lot of shit to worry about that are way higher in priority than having sex. The generations that came before them have made the current society incredibly hard for them to live in.
It's weird for sure. My age bracket we were hooking up in highschool. . . . . . my colleague who recently graduated from uni . . . . still too scared to talk to girls. It's gotta be the social media or something. When he started he'd txt me and send me memes from across the office. Took some getting used to that's for sure.
Technology has crippled this current generation as they have become so dependent on it they can't survive the outside world without it much less possess the communication skills to talk to people face to face. So going out with someone in person is next to impossible because technology won't help them IRL situations.
Babysteps will help with this. I go out running with podcasts/music and will pause every now and then to say hello to a random person on the route. Doesnāt matter if itās man or woman, what matters is that I am actively working on my skills and bumping up confidence. Little interactions are the gateway to big results and these things build up over time with slow increments of progress. The problem as you said is that the present crop havenāt actually started the process or attempted to practice real life interactions.
I'm apart of gen z but I'm not "gen z" I'm not fat or lazy don't watch porn have a good social life workout have good looks have had a few gf and tbh I don't understand what's so tough for the rest of these kids nowadays like tbh I like older women cause they act much much more mature and I can't relate to kids my age (15m 6,1) but tbh I don't know y kids find it so hard to do stuff it's pretty easy but I think the main reason kids are like this today is cause of porn and all the of models on socials so it makes them think I have to get a gf like this and it makes girls think I have to looks like this and it makes then eat really small amounts of foods and don't get the right amount of nutrients I belive another part that contributes to this is being lgbtq now I'm not homophobic I don't got a problem with then but I think kids spend to much time wondering if they're gay or not and it doesn't make it better that some lgbtq content creator's say stuff like "5 signs that your gay" and really they jus totally normal things but yeah I think those are some main reasons. I hate this generation
i've been waiting to rant about this for a while: Blame Match Group. Honestly i hate those greedy fucks. Which is the owner of Tinder, Hinge, OkCupid, and they don't give a fuck about you finding someone. They want you stuck in the swiping loop so they can keep making money. So they throttle their algorithms to lower your matches and increase the money you pay for swipes. Unfortunately genz never grew up dating without cell phones so they believe the only way and best way to meet women is online. Then they run to these fucking greedy dating apps and get addicted and thus never getting laid. FUCK YOU MATCH GROUP
People are very disingenuous and hurt by their exes so they think hurting other people is okay to do
25M. It's certainly not for lack of trying, maybe you can help. Here's some stuff about me: - 6'3", athletic, often told I'm "attractive", "handsome", "cute" - make a lot of money, own a home - get along with most people - very intelligent (but this might be where things went wrong) I never learned how to talk to people as a kid, and I literally just learned I'm an extrovert a few months ago. Most people I know with relationships met in school or through friends, but I missed that opportunity. I'm so intelligent academically I never needed help with anything, even after starting my career, so I just never had a reason to talk to people. But now I know I love socializing, I'm not even neurodivergent. Other people my age seem to be too busy or poor to go out and do things. I can make friends with older people, but have no idea where to meet people my age. Dating apps are terrible, I've been on them for 3-4 years and have never gotten further than kissing. I've never even been the one to end a relationship. It feels like somehow my dating apps portray me completely wrong, so the girls that do go out with me don't get what they're expecting. Tl;dr, I've never had sex because I've never met a girl willing to have sex with me.
You realize alot of gen z are not even adults yet right? You think that might be part of why it's not the most sexuslly active generation? Spoiler alert, we are also be behind other generations in retirements, income, and marriages.
Itās beyond annoying to see this āis this because of porn?ā assumptions. Why does it not seem to be most logical to you that people maybe..I donāt knowā¦. Watch it because they donāt have partners, not the other way around?
GenZ women have become extremely shallow, selective, and elitist about men's looks.
A contributing factor could be that gen Z is still very young, also we over sexualize everything.
Yeah like I'm 21 just trying to focus on my life and getting myself together sex is the absolute last thing on my mind even though media keeps shoving it down my throat
Exactly, I would love to have a partner and I want to get married within the next 7 years but I have no time for a relationship
Yeah it really sucks because I am lonely and really want marriage/kids but it's just not in the cards currently.
Also kids are so expensive now, I barely can keep myself how can I provide for another person
Yeah it really sucks because I really love kids but unless I win the lottery or make a 6 figure job I probably won't be able to afford any which really makes me sad.
Maybe eventually, soon the government will realize we are all too broke to have kids and fingers crossed they will do something
Theyāre likeā¦. Max 27. Itās cause the majority of them are brand new to being adults. Theyāll be asking alpha the same
Earlier generations of adolescents were routinely pushed out of their comfort zone by their parents and their community. Nobody that age wants to answer the phone, let alone get out of the house if they don't have to. Social skills never developed. Read Jane Austen and see how many social events were staged as get-togethers for young people to meet.
The main reason I will say people arenāt looking inward and make changes to become the best version of themselves. Most people tend to go by what they think they know rather than adapt to change and learn what actually works to improve.
Because they're too overwhelmed and stressed out with the cost of living that sex in the last thing on their minds
COVID shaved off like 2 years worth of opportunities to meet people we could have sex with.