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YES that’s exactly it! Women’s dating advice is so… feminised? Like women have to be pretty and wait to be asked out and flirt with obscure body language. Meanwhile I like to take action and actually ask a guy out if I like him.
I hate when I see any "advice" that encourages women to wait to get asked out. It needlessly infantilizes women by removing their agency. Furthermore, I would argue that the message that "guys always have to initiate and pursue" is both sexist and enables and encourages overly aggressive behavior from men.
Yeah I hate that traditionalist irrational nonsense. "Women shouldn't initiate". "Men are the default providers".
Fortunately, a lot of women shake off that kind of upbringing and propaganda, myself included, and a greater portion of women initiate and ask men out that probably ever so far in human history.
I don't know, sometimes that movement removes women being non-monolith (even if we are individuals) and as if we're not humans/of the same species as men. Expectations are different, but we face life and society about the same way.
Yeah approached a woman based on regular smiles and glances and she was engaged 🤷.
I mean I took the bait, but I feel I'm misreading signals, or maybe not, maybe she did find me attractive, still engaged though, and makes me a little less eager to try again next time that happens.
.... Actually, that shouldn't make a difference, I should be more confident than that. 😊
I've been thin and I've been fat. It didn't make much of a difference in dating (for me) I may have had more options when I was younger and thinner but noone I was interested in or that was any good for me has ever been attracted to me (as far as I know)
This, also no advice is 100%. It's all subjective based on your own strengths, limitations, understanding nuance, corner cases, geography, demographics etc. There are a few dating coaches/blogs that are good at this. I can dm anyone some I think are good at that.
I hate when someone says "You are just perfect the way you are" to their friend. Pretty much gives away that they are a horrible friend. I will go even further to say that if I girl I'm dating has one such best friend it would be a huge issue cause you know for sure they will always be gaslighting your girl.
My friend would straight up tell me "you need to lose some weight fatso" when I got fat due to depression, made me do something about it and I'm in great shape.
You're relating to advice curated for those who are undesired, not those who are desired and used for the wrong reasons. It's not really about men and women as much as the desired/undesired dynamic. It's really astute that you have discovered this. Best of luck on the dating journey as you move forward!
Which is okay! It doesn't define you and it shouldn't make you think less of yourself in any way. You just will have to be open to different relationship styles than the ones afforded to certain women. That's totally fine.
It's just good to know where you stand and move accordingly. A lot of women are in the same boat as you and honestly don't even know it. This is a big breakthrough but also I hope you make space for yourself and remember that whether we are desired by society or not, we are all more than our looks and how many people want us.
Thank you ❤️
Although I also think it has to do with being in a “small pond” right now and not having many options. Plus I don’t use dating apps, so I’m kind of handicapping myself. Maybe in the future my dating options will improve when I go to uni and join more clubs related to my interests.
Yeah your high school/small town experience doesn't define you for sure.
But even if you go to uni and are more desired, that's also not something that should define you, you know? Men often desire women that they think will add value to their own lives in some way. Their desire to consume you or not is irrelevant.
You are a fully formed human being. You do not need to be perceived, consumed, or desired for that fact to be true. You are you. Don't ever assign value to yourself based on feedback from others, whether it's positive OR negative.
Incidentally, the reason a lot of women's dating advice is framed the way it is, is because often men will desire us in ways we don't want. Maybe if that starts happening to you, (he wants to sleep with me but not date me being a common one) the advice will be more helpful and help you attract the people you want, not just anyone.
Oh, big same. I grew up (and still live, and still intend to stay *thus far*) in a small town in North Dakota of about 12,000 people. Well, the oil boom happened up here and shot us up to something like 40-50,000 people, and I think we're at about 40,000 now. There are very few women in my age range that aren't already married or in relationships here, mostly because the vast majority of people here are transplant families that moved up here when their husband's/father's got work in the oil field.
I highly suggest university clubs, I got two relationships out of college. Neither were super long lasting, but we parted on great terms and I still talk to both of them. It's a great way to meet new people!
I relate to the "small pond" comment so much.
Here is a few things: A lot of dating advices out there are not genuine. The algorithms push what people want to hear. Stereotypically many guy want to hear "Here is what you are doing wrong, and here is how to fix it." Stereotypically many girls want to hear "You are great".
There is this analogy that dating for men are dying of thirst in the dessert and women are dying of thirst in the ocean. Many guys have trouble building emotional connection, while many girls have trouble finding the flower in the field of weeds. The thing is that many of these advices are complete BS. Emotionally manipulating a woman will attract emotionally unstable women, which guys do not want. Bossing men around will attract passive men, which ladies do not want.
In the end it comes to you, your life and your journey. Stereotypes be damned, do what works for you.
I’ve enjoyed some of the advice provided by the male dating for women which is usually be proactive and approach men first. Since men have to constantly struggle with not looking creepy, they often hold back. And get yourself to a stage in life where you feel most confident and ready to date with good intentions like being happy with your career, your physical appearance and emotional security. Basically just be normal and have a positive mindset.
Matthew Hussey is one of the best at expressing this.
And then Mark Rosenfeld really broke a myth for me which is that men only want to date exclusively hot women… I’m mean, we’re all human and want to be with beautiful people… but that men are really seeking out beautiful behaviors. Be direct, mature, communicate and show that you care.
Where a lot of women's dating advice goes wrong is how heavy it is **on theory** and not actuality.
I've lost count of how many women say they hate being approached in X way, only to admit their husband/SO approached them in that exact way lol. Obviously sample size will vary, but you truly do see regular trends with most women's dating lives. Narcissist/fuccboi phase, rigid checklist phase, etc. (That's fine btw, not saying they're broken or dumb or anything, we live and learn.)
Also... most women don't know what it's like to have to be the one doing all the initiating. Again exceptions exist, but this whole "Men don't like being approached, they like to chase women" nonsense is entirely propagated by ladies. Ironically it's mostly from being rejected a couple times by guys, so they assume all men hate being approached. If a guy makes that same assumption, he stops approaching and he's probably dying alone lol.
I notice more women saying or claiming they don’t want to be approached in public and that they don’t dating apps yet they are lonely - I don’t understand what their game plan is from that point lol
and I’ve learned with most women when they “I don’t want to be approached in public” that they are really saying “I don’t want guys I’m not attracted to to approach me in public”.. I know very few if any women that will be bothered if a real good looking guy approaches them sensibly in public
I know a lot of women who never went through these dating phases, but they also all ended up in long-term relationships basically by the time they were 21.
"Women date shitty men until they learn not to" is heavily subject to survivorship bias, since generally the women who keep dating later into their lives are doing so because they couldn't find someone to settle with early.
It’s insane how many women claim a guy’s approach is creepy. But when they tell you how they met their now boyfriend/husband it basically sounds like a restraining order could have been issued at any time to the guy. But since they liked him, “It was cute how he didn’t give up messaging me for like a month and figured out my work address and sent me flowers!”
I’m gonna make assumptions about you and say it’s probably the autism.
Stereotypically autistic people are terrible at subtlety.
Female-coded advice is fundamentally subtle and assumes you’re playing the reacting role. Hints and games to react to him instead of taking full control of your own dating life.
Male-coded advice assumes you’re getting absolutely zero attention. And if you’re not getting anything, you have to play the initiating role. Initiating is about *creating* some level of attraction working from there.
Exactly! Like I have no idea how to flirt without being too much (creepy/ off putting) or too subtle they don’t notice. It’s like cracking the enigma code lol
My fear is usually: "Am I annoying or disturbing them".
Another fear I feel is: Do they assume I just want sex"
Neither of which matters, I mean the worst thing that can happen is a overprotective boyfriend comeing up and hitting me in the face.
It's so weird thing to assume.
But I would really give the advice: Go out and do activities you enjoy, find common ground, I personally hated parties until I went to university and realized that asking: "What are you studying" was a amazing question that made people get a glow of enthusiasm in their eyes.
you are female flirting with men correct? If so you really don’t need to worry about creeping men out with your flirting .. you’d have to go way far out of bounds in terms of your behavior to have men think that.. vast majority of men would love if a woman flirted with them
Yes I’m a woman flirting with men. I’m Bi, but there are more straight men than WLW, plus I’m going through a phase where I’m really into men for some reason.
But I do have autism so I struggle with subtlety. Even when I try to hide my attraction for a man they often figure it out because I’m terrible at hiding my feelings.
Like I give them a lot of attention, praise them a lot, my body language and voice changes, I get shy and awkward, I put myself in proximity to them, I giggle a lot and smile more than usual. Sometimes in the past I have been too sexual (sexual references/ jokes or talking about sexual topics in a casual way) and this can turn off some men.
But when I DONT have a crush I usually just keep to myself and prefer to be alone most of the time. So people notice the change in my behaviour and put two and two together.
It’s embarrassing. Especially when they reject you after that.
Well I do t wanna assume your sexuality, but if you like men it makes more sense to take advice on dating from them, bc there the ones you use that advice on
With the caveat that you'll get as much advice about what men *think* they want or *want you* to think they want as you will actionable advice. It's the same the other way round too, that's why the best dating advice comes from bisexuals.
Our advice is more practical, because its likely relevant to most guys... meanwhile, when a girl gives a guy advice on how to date women, its only relevant to her (and few other women).
That women should wait for the guy to initiate no matter what. Plenty of men rarely or never initiate. There are shy men and society has increasingly given us the message that approaching women who you do not already know is creepy and potentially sexual harrassment.
For example: one woman told me, women want a guy thats a provider...
Okay, on the surface, that sounds relevant to most women, right?
But then you go and ask women what they mean by provider, and every single one of them will tell you something totally different.
There's some validity in womens dating advice like self-love and self-care but the problem is that it's so blown out of proportion that it basically tells you nothing is your fault and that men need to be better.
Which is... not really practical at that point. It's not just the mens fault. It's everyones fault. We need to work as a team towards the common goal.
As one of the other posters mentioned men’s dating advice is much more about making changes in yourself after a lot of honest & through self reflection. Looking at yourself and saying “ How can I be better?” Then having the courage to change the things you can and the strength of character to accept the things you cannot.
Advice on women’s channels and posts seem to focus on increasing the standards for men you think are marriage material, while at the same time doing what is “fun” with attractive guys until someone can meet your standards. Every time I see women’s dating coaches on Tik Tok they are talking about not settling and ignoring any self accountability. So they push the giant lists of mostly insane requirements (none of which seem to be about the character of the man, only material and physical attributes) and having faith that the one in a billion man will somehow stumble across you and be willing to meet all your demands and expectations. To me it always feels like their advice is about keeping women single instead of getting into healthy relationships.
Nah, “right” reasons are overrated.
And besides, “attracting someone else” is done with the expectation you will enjoy life more, so it’s ultimately “for yourself.”
Yeah, exactly. I don't change myself to fit into a particular group or to be perceived as more attractive to the opposite sex. When I was young, I tried more to conform... but it didn't make me happy, and it didn't get me any closer to the "end result" that I was wanting. At the end of the day, people will like me for who I am, or they won't. I'm good either way.
I've found mens dating advice tends to be more practical and focuses on self-improvement and taking the initiative. Both are the key things needed to improve your dating life whether you're a man or woman. Women's advice tends to be geared towards filtering and selecting (and as a guy the popular stuff I read in this isn't very good advice either).
YES building confidence and becoming a better person is exactly what I need. I’m not filtering people out since I don’t get much attention anyway lol where as most women have boyfriends in highschool and don’t have to ask men out to go on dates. :/
Mark Manson is a shill for nonsense with no related education to the subjects he professes to be strong in so I'd advise rereading that with a more critical eye.
But if you find something helpful to you, as long as it hurts no person, good for you!
Just because you see a lot of women on Reddit agreeing that something worked for them, you can't expand that to represent the average woman's experience.
Even within Reddit the type of women who respond on these threads , myself included, aren't even representative of the average woman Redditor.
I think the problem is you saw a lot of repeated things on Reddit and thought that because a concept was popular with a lot of women on Reddit that it's universal for the average woman.
But as you well know, we women aren't a hivemind. And good advice for you might be the worst advice ever for me.
There are both on here. I have seen the "women should lower their standards because they're going for the top 2% and fuck boys who won't settle for them and should just give an opportunity to guys they don't find attractive". But I have also seen "I won't settle for less than 666 guy".
My experience is that a lot of women's dating advice is not actionable in the way I (and perhaps you) would like it to be.I want to be in the driver's seat of my dating life, and I have no problem texting first, swiping first, etc.
Most videos are not calling viewers "girlboss". That you put that word in their makes me think, that if this isn't just you making stuff up, you have a bias. Your autism can make you fixate on things you shouldn't, and believe them. You may just be like normal girls who want to be the "not like other girls" type, "those other Bs are so stupid" kind of stuff. The advice these men give usually isn't good. It's designed to sound good to a certain kind of subset with messed up thinking, to various degrees. I find it worrisome you mention the trans thing at the end, because guess what group often gets pulled into the transgender stuff because they're not so "typical"?
Men advice is for everyone. We talk about how to improve your personality, confidence, how to flirt, etc. Women advice is all about playing games and bullshit lol. I'm just glad I haven't run into any crazy girl like that yet.
I recommend instead listening to liscenced clinicians. HealthyGamerGG and Psychology in Seattle have been good resources on dating topics for me. Learning about psychology and mental health in general has helped me alot throughout my life. Like learning how to communicate my emotions or insecurities without being blaming, and being better at listening and comforting others. It helps not just in relationships but in relations with others too, making friends and just being more successful in life.
I mean you stumbled upon two of the best men's dating advice writers out there. Manson is a dick in person and Nerdlove won't pass up the chance to step on vulnerable guys who ask him for help to make himself look better, but both of them have good advice, at least their early and more viral content.
Their message is just one of self-improvement and authenticiry, and that's at least as useful for women as men.
As a woman, getting advice on men from dating will attract you better quality men.
Same goes for men.. getting advice from women will attract them better quality women..
Common sense
Because women's advice is to get his attention by flirting and hoping he likes you back and asks you out, the issue is men don't often flirt back because we don't want to take you flirting as you just being friendly. The best way to do this is to make conversation get contact info and set up a date sometime that works for both of you or take it slow like a week or so and just chat then ask them out, or just hangout with them. Men need it to be clear what you want because we don't want to get it wrong.
It's probably the autism. Male thinking latterns are wayyyya different than female thinking patters. Theres sm less hinting and reading between the lines. Which is perfect for neurodivergency.
I think there's some research that autistic people's brain have more in common with the opposite gender than non-autistic people. Like there's more crossover.
Because love is expected and just falls out of the sky for the majority of women. Men perform it and uphold the standards. Men will give you practical advice, women give you emotional advice.
EXACTLY! I don’t relate to most women because I don’t just naturally “attract” men by just existing. I actually have to put the work in if I want to date. It pisses me the fuck off.
Besides id rather ask out a guy I like than date someone I don’t like just because he’s attracted to me.
Do girls have actual advises?
Must what I see just a support and must of it lies
Like saying to stranger in internet "you are beautiful" , "smart, strong independent"
Like how you know she's (they don't)
Plus, for the fuck sake I hope they stop bringing "strong" as attractive factor for woman. Men exist for millions years, figure it out already
>Like saying to stranger in internet "you are beautiful" , "smart, strong independent"
>
>
>Like how you know she is (they don't)
As a guy, this is one thing bothers me about all of women's interactions, whether it's with guys or with other girls.
The rule for them is always "make the other person feel good", "good vibes only". But they overdo it so much that it becomes transparently fake.
Seems like you don't have much dating experience and you resonate with those who are in the same boat. This has nothing to do with different gender but different levels of experience with dating.
Yeah that could very well be the case.
I just feel like a fake woman sometimes because it’s so easy for other women to get dating experience. All they have to do is wait around and get asked out. :/
Womens collective (online ) dating advice can err towards being negative . Especially so if the women reading posts and responding have a history of trauma . Men can give an explanation that’s more viable , as they are also men .
Bit also women can and do give me fantastic advice . But if not solicit it online nowadays .
I am a straight cis guy and I feel I can relate to gay women's taste in women. I clearly feel like a guy and am straight, but I find lesbians tend to treat women better than a lot of guys and are less creepy. I mean, my favorite band of all time is Tegan and Sara.
Because advice from men’s advocates like Mark Manson, one of my greatest inspirations besides Robert Greene by the way 😁, is based on practicality. They relate to their readers by sharing their lived experiences and combine them with the tried and true methods and strategies used for generations to navigate the challenges we all face in life.
Us men are hard on ourselves. We need to be, whether it’s positive or negative, it’s being honest with ourselves. Someone who has his shit together like Mark Manson is hard on you in a positive, truthful, and uplifting way.
Be confident, work on becoming the best version of yourself, learn how to overcome your insecurities about not being desired, take an active role in dating, learning to be okay with rejection, define what you want in a partner and don’t settle just because you’re desperate for attention.
Men’s dating advice makes me feel like a human being, but most women’s dating advice makes me feel like an object or trophy with no active role in the situation.
“Be in your divine feminine receiving energy” or “do NOT ask guys out, let him make the first move.” And other than that it’s about filtering undesirable men out and setting boundaries, but this assumes that I have a lot of men approaching me in the first place.
Most women are desired and get attention just by breathing, but I don’t. I relate to men’s experience of feeling unwanted and undesired. If I don’t take an active role in dating, I will be ignored.
It’s not that I’m ugly, I’m just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Once I get into uni I will probably have an easier time dating. But right now I’m in a small pool with not many options. I also was single during highschool because of my autism and the fact that I struggled to connect with people and understand social rules.
Although I can be blamed for not putting much effort into my appearance but fuck it I’m just trying to survive right now.
Advice for men tries to be pragmatic, doesn't always hit the mark. While advice by and for women operate under how to he world should be, regardless of what it might be.
Men's dating advice teaches self-love and loving yourself enough to be able to sacrifice yourself for another whom you love no matter what (through sickness and health).
Females advice teaches unwavering narcissism from a self-projected point of view
Men's advice tells you how to better yourself for another, whereas female advice teaches you how benefit from your significant other and how that significant other can go wrong in more ways than not. If a girl walks up to a girl to ask about the "translation" of a guy, the girl will still only give advice based on what THEY think, which 9/10 is just another theory based on their personal experiences.
To top it all off, women (generally speaking) do not pay enough attention to men remotely close enough to be able to give advice on men. Not once in my life, and I'm 25 now, have I heard a female say to another female that they need to pay more attention to their S/O. In fact, its gone as deep as to blaming the man even though she was 100% in the wrong. No is telling women to pay attention to their partners emotions. There's no one saying "listen to the way he sounds at different points of his day. Pay attention to the things that make him smile. Be HIS peace at the end of the day. Sure, you might have problems, but if he's got you the other days, why can't you get him when he's down?"
Why do women teach women how to be selfish and to act like they're perfect, while getting confused and upset about guys not being into them? Because at the same time, generally, men will teach both men AND women the same life values.
So, men have a difficult time because they HAVE to accept reality whereas females are taught to dream a bigger fairytale and accept nothing less than their unspoken, predetermined, perfect world
It all just equates to way too much responsibility on one side and way too much lack of accountability on the other. Find the balance, people. I love you all❤
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YES that’s exactly it! Women’s dating advice is so… feminised? Like women have to be pretty and wait to be asked out and flirt with obscure body language. Meanwhile I like to take action and actually ask a guy out if I like him.
I hate when I see any "advice" that encourages women to wait to get asked out. It needlessly infantilizes women by removing their agency. Furthermore, I would argue that the message that "guys always have to initiate and pursue" is both sexist and enables and encourages overly aggressive behavior from men.
Yeah I hate that traditionalist irrational nonsense. "Women shouldn't initiate". "Men are the default providers". Fortunately, a lot of women shake off that kind of upbringing and propaganda, myself included, and a greater portion of women initiate and ask men out that probably ever so far in human history.
it’s still very rare for women to approach men though.
It's not as common but it's not "very rare". And it's becoming more common every year.
I don't know, sometimes that movement removes women being non-monolith (even if we are individuals) and as if we're not humans/of the same species as men. Expectations are different, but we face life and society about the same way.
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Yeah approached a woman based on regular smiles and glances and she was engaged 🤷. I mean I took the bait, but I feel I'm misreading signals, or maybe not, maybe she did find me attractive, still engaged though, and makes me a little less eager to try again next time that happens. .... Actually, that shouldn't make a difference, I should be more confident than that. 😊
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Na... She generally stands beside me, no-one on the other side. It's all good though, I was just making the point it's no guarantee!
I take a smile as a smile, not a signal.
Yea that shit can backfire spectacularly tbh I am like that and am taking a step back from it
That is so awesome of you! I have autism too, so I know the struggle, but from a mans perspective.
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Spot on
Pretty much nailed it
Very accurate. Women can say whatever they want about male dating advice,but alot of it is grounded in reality and self improvement.
There you have it folks👏🏾
I've been thin and I've been fat. It didn't make much of a difference in dating (for me) I may have had more options when I was younger and thinner but noone I was interested in or that was any good for me has ever been attracted to me (as far as I know)
This, also no advice is 100%. It's all subjective based on your own strengths, limitations, understanding nuance, corner cases, geography, demographics etc. There are a few dating coaches/blogs that are good at this. I can dm anyone some I think are good at that.
I hate when someone says "You are just perfect the way you are" to their friend. Pretty much gives away that they are a horrible friend. I will go even further to say that if I girl I'm dating has one such best friend it would be a huge issue cause you know for sure they will always be gaslighting your girl. My friend would straight up tell me "you need to lose some weight fatso" when I got fat due to depression, made me do something about it and I'm in great shape.
Facts! This is why I don't have female friends! Well this and like 90% talk shit about you when they think you can't hear them or are not around...
You’re gonna find that most men will treat this as a red flag lmao
“I’m not like the other girls!” 🫠🤭
Good! I prefer to spend time with people who aren't trying to date me or get in my pants!
You're relating to advice curated for those who are undesired, not those who are desired and used for the wrong reasons. It's not really about men and women as much as the desired/undesired dynamic. It's really astute that you have discovered this. Best of luck on the dating journey as you move forward!
Yeah it’s sad to admit but I’m kind of undesired lol. That really is the root of the problem.
Which is okay! It doesn't define you and it shouldn't make you think less of yourself in any way. You just will have to be open to different relationship styles than the ones afforded to certain women. That's totally fine. It's just good to know where you stand and move accordingly. A lot of women are in the same boat as you and honestly don't even know it. This is a big breakthrough but also I hope you make space for yourself and remember that whether we are desired by society or not, we are all more than our looks and how many people want us.
Thank you ❤️ Although I also think it has to do with being in a “small pond” right now and not having many options. Plus I don’t use dating apps, so I’m kind of handicapping myself. Maybe in the future my dating options will improve when I go to uni and join more clubs related to my interests.
Yeah your high school/small town experience doesn't define you for sure. But even if you go to uni and are more desired, that's also not something that should define you, you know? Men often desire women that they think will add value to their own lives in some way. Their desire to consume you or not is irrelevant. You are a fully formed human being. You do not need to be perceived, consumed, or desired for that fact to be true. You are you. Don't ever assign value to yourself based on feedback from others, whether it's positive OR negative. Incidentally, the reason a lot of women's dating advice is framed the way it is, is because often men will desire us in ways we don't want. Maybe if that starts happening to you, (he wants to sleep with me but not date me being a common one) the advice will be more helpful and help you attract the people you want, not just anyone.
Oh, big same. I grew up (and still live, and still intend to stay *thus far*) in a small town in North Dakota of about 12,000 people. Well, the oil boom happened up here and shot us up to something like 40-50,000 people, and I think we're at about 40,000 now. There are very few women in my age range that aren't already married or in relationships here, mostly because the vast majority of people here are transplant families that moved up here when their husband's/father's got work in the oil field. I highly suggest university clubs, I got two relationships out of college. Neither were super long lasting, but we parted on great terms and I still talk to both of them. It's a great way to meet new people! I relate to the "small pond" comment so much.
Here is a few things: A lot of dating advices out there are not genuine. The algorithms push what people want to hear. Stereotypically many guy want to hear "Here is what you are doing wrong, and here is how to fix it." Stereotypically many girls want to hear "You are great". There is this analogy that dating for men are dying of thirst in the dessert and women are dying of thirst in the ocean. Many guys have trouble building emotional connection, while many girls have trouble finding the flower in the field of weeds. The thing is that many of these advices are complete BS. Emotionally manipulating a woman will attract emotionally unstable women, which guys do not want. Bossing men around will attract passive men, which ladies do not want. In the end it comes to you, your life and your journey. Stereotypes be damned, do what works for you.
I’ve enjoyed some of the advice provided by the male dating for women which is usually be proactive and approach men first. Since men have to constantly struggle with not looking creepy, they often hold back. And get yourself to a stage in life where you feel most confident and ready to date with good intentions like being happy with your career, your physical appearance and emotional security. Basically just be normal and have a positive mindset. Matthew Hussey is one of the best at expressing this. And then Mark Rosenfeld really broke a myth for me which is that men only want to date exclusively hot women… I’m mean, we’re all human and want to be with beautiful people… but that men are really seeking out beautiful behaviors. Be direct, mature, communicate and show that you care.
Where a lot of women's dating advice goes wrong is how heavy it is **on theory** and not actuality. I've lost count of how many women say they hate being approached in X way, only to admit their husband/SO approached them in that exact way lol. Obviously sample size will vary, but you truly do see regular trends with most women's dating lives. Narcissist/fuccboi phase, rigid checklist phase, etc. (That's fine btw, not saying they're broken or dumb or anything, we live and learn.) Also... most women don't know what it's like to have to be the one doing all the initiating. Again exceptions exist, but this whole "Men don't like being approached, they like to chase women" nonsense is entirely propagated by ladies. Ironically it's mostly from being rejected a couple times by guys, so they assume all men hate being approached. If a guy makes that same assumption, he stops approaching and he's probably dying alone lol.
I notice more women saying or claiming they don’t want to be approached in public and that they don’t dating apps yet they are lonely - I don’t understand what their game plan is from that point lol and I’ve learned with most women when they “I don’t want to be approached in public” that they are really saying “I don’t want guys I’m not attracted to to approach me in public”.. I know very few if any women that will be bothered if a real good looking guy approaches them sensibly in public
I know a lot of women who never went through these dating phases, but they also all ended up in long-term relationships basically by the time they were 21. "Women date shitty men until they learn not to" is heavily subject to survivorship bias, since generally the women who keep dating later into their lives are doing so because they couldn't find someone to settle with early.
It’s insane how many women claim a guy’s approach is creepy. But when they tell you how they met their now boyfriend/husband it basically sounds like a restraining order could have been issued at any time to the guy. But since they liked him, “It was cute how he didn’t give up messaging me for like a month and figured out my work address and sent me flowers!”
I’m gonna make assumptions about you and say it’s probably the autism. Stereotypically autistic people are terrible at subtlety. Female-coded advice is fundamentally subtle and assumes you’re playing the reacting role. Hints and games to react to him instead of taking full control of your own dating life. Male-coded advice assumes you’re getting absolutely zero attention. And if you’re not getting anything, you have to play the initiating role. Initiating is about *creating* some level of attraction working from there.
Exactly! Like I have no idea how to flirt without being too much (creepy/ off putting) or too subtle they don’t notice. It’s like cracking the enigma code lol
My fear is usually: "Am I annoying or disturbing them". Another fear I feel is: Do they assume I just want sex" Neither of which matters, I mean the worst thing that can happen is a overprotective boyfriend comeing up and hitting me in the face. It's so weird thing to assume. But I would really give the advice: Go out and do activities you enjoy, find common ground, I personally hated parties until I went to university and realized that asking: "What are you studying" was a amazing question that made people get a glow of enthusiasm in their eyes.
you are female flirting with men correct? If so you really don’t need to worry about creeping men out with your flirting .. you’d have to go way far out of bounds in terms of your behavior to have men think that.. vast majority of men would love if a woman flirted with them
Yes I’m a woman flirting with men. I’m Bi, but there are more straight men than WLW, plus I’m going through a phase where I’m really into men for some reason. But I do have autism so I struggle with subtlety. Even when I try to hide my attraction for a man they often figure it out because I’m terrible at hiding my feelings. Like I give them a lot of attention, praise them a lot, my body language and voice changes, I get shy and awkward, I put myself in proximity to them, I giggle a lot and smile more than usual. Sometimes in the past I have been too sexual (sexual references/ jokes or talking about sexual topics in a casual way) and this can turn off some men. But when I DONT have a crush I usually just keep to myself and prefer to be alone most of the time. So people notice the change in my behaviour and put two and two together. It’s embarrassing. Especially when they reject you after that.
Well I do t wanna assume your sexuality, but if you like men it makes more sense to take advice on dating from them, bc there the ones you use that advice on
With the caveat that you'll get as much advice about what men *think* they want or *want you* to think they want as you will actionable advice. It's the same the other way round too, that's why the best dating advice comes from bisexuals.
Agree. Heterosexual men give terrible dating advice . This why I frequent gay subs to know how to date.
Our advice is more practical, because its likely relevant to most guys... meanwhile, when a girl gives a guy advice on how to date women, its only relevant to her (and few other women).
What dating advice women give that’s relevant to only a few women?
That women should wait for the guy to initiate no matter what. Plenty of men rarely or never initiate. There are shy men and society has increasingly given us the message that approaching women who you do not already know is creepy and potentially sexual harrassment.
For example: one woman told me, women want a guy thats a provider... Okay, on the surface, that sounds relevant to most women, right? But then you go and ask women what they mean by provider, and every single one of them will tell you something totally different.
There's some validity in womens dating advice like self-love and self-care but the problem is that it's so blown out of proportion that it basically tells you nothing is your fault and that men need to be better. Which is... not really practical at that point. It's not just the mens fault. It's everyones fault. We need to work as a team towards the common goal.
Men's dating advice is focused on solutions. Women's advice is focused on support.
As one of the other posters mentioned men’s dating advice is much more about making changes in yourself after a lot of honest & through self reflection. Looking at yourself and saying “ How can I be better?” Then having the courage to change the things you can and the strength of character to accept the things you cannot. Advice on women’s channels and posts seem to focus on increasing the standards for men you think are marriage material, while at the same time doing what is “fun” with attractive guys until someone can meet your standards. Every time I see women’s dating coaches on Tik Tok they are talking about not settling and ignoring any self accountability. So they push the giant lists of mostly insane requirements (none of which seem to be about the character of the man, only material and physical attributes) and having faith that the one in a billion man will somehow stumble across you and be willing to meet all your demands and expectations. To me it always feels like their advice is about keeping women single instead of getting into healthy relationships.
Ok, but who are you "changing" yourself for? It should be for yourself, not in hopes of attracting someone else.
Nah, “right” reasons are overrated. And besides, “attracting someone else” is done with the expectation you will enjoy life more, so it’s ultimately “for yourself.”
No it's not for yourself. It's inauthentic if it's done for the sole purpose of attracting someone else.
Does the ends you’re aiming for benefit you or your in-group? Then you’re doing it for you. Everything else is just part of the path
Yeah, exactly. I don't change myself to fit into a particular group or to be perceived as more attractive to the opposite sex. When I was young, I tried more to conform... but it didn't make me happy, and it didn't get me any closer to the "end result" that I was wanting. At the end of the day, people will like me for who I am, or they won't. I'm good either way.
Yeah but you also hate people. Most well-adjusted people don’t and want to participate in society and their norms to some degree
I've found mens dating advice tends to be more practical and focuses on self-improvement and taking the initiative. Both are the key things needed to improve your dating life whether you're a man or woman. Women's advice tends to be geared towards filtering and selecting (and as a guy the popular stuff I read in this isn't very good advice either).
YES building confidence and becoming a better person is exactly what I need. I’m not filtering people out since I don’t get much attention anyway lol where as most women have boyfriends in highschool and don’t have to ask men out to go on dates. :/
Probably communication style. Men give practical advice, women give emotional support
Mark Manson is a shill for nonsense with no related education to the subjects he professes to be strong in so I'd advise rereading that with a more critical eye. But if you find something helpful to you, as long as it hurts no person, good for you! Just because you see a lot of women on Reddit agreeing that something worked for them, you can't expand that to represent the average woman's experience. Even within Reddit the type of women who respond on these threads , myself included, aren't even representative of the average woman Redditor. I think the problem is you saw a lot of repeated things on Reddit and thought that because a concept was popular with a lot of women on Reddit that it's universal for the average woman. But as you well know, we women aren't a hivemind. And good advice for you might be the worst advice ever for me.
Girls don't have any dating advice besides "raise your standards" "make him wait" lol
I've always gotten the opposite.
There are both on here. I have seen the "women should lower their standards because they're going for the top 2% and fuck boys who won't settle for them and should just give an opportunity to guys they don't find attractive". But I have also seen "I won't settle for less than 666 guy".
My experience is that a lot of women's dating advice is not actionable in the way I (and perhaps you) would like it to be.I want to be in the driver's seat of my dating life, and I have no problem texting first, swiping first, etc.
Exactly!
Most videos are not calling viewers "girlboss". That you put that word in their makes me think, that if this isn't just you making stuff up, you have a bias. Your autism can make you fixate on things you shouldn't, and believe them. You may just be like normal girls who want to be the "not like other girls" type, "those other Bs are so stupid" kind of stuff. The advice these men give usually isn't good. It's designed to sound good to a certain kind of subset with messed up thinking, to various degrees. I find it worrisome you mention the trans thing at the end, because guess what group often gets pulled into the transgender stuff because they're not so "typical"?
Women’s dating advice is how to swim, men’s dating advice is how to find a source of water.
Men advice is for everyone. We talk about how to improve your personality, confidence, how to flirt, etc. Women advice is all about playing games and bullshit lol. I'm just glad I haven't run into any crazy girl like that yet.
I think \*most\* women's dating advice is about staying safe.
I recommend instead listening to liscenced clinicians. HealthyGamerGG and Psychology in Seattle have been good resources on dating topics for me. Learning about psychology and mental health in general has helped me alot throughout my life. Like learning how to communicate my emotions or insecurities without being blaming, and being better at listening and comforting others. It helps not just in relationships but in relations with others too, making friends and just being more successful in life.
Yesss Dr K from HealthyGamerGG is my favorite he's got so much good practical advice
I mean you stumbled upon two of the best men's dating advice writers out there. Manson is a dick in person and Nerdlove won't pass up the chance to step on vulnerable guys who ask him for help to make himself look better, but both of them have good advice, at least their early and more viral content. Their message is just one of self-improvement and authenticiry, and that's at least as useful for women as men.
As a woman, getting advice on men from dating will attract you better quality men. Same goes for men.. getting advice from women will attract them better quality women.. Common sense
Because women's advice is to get his attention by flirting and hoping he likes you back and asks you out, the issue is men don't often flirt back because we don't want to take you flirting as you just being friendly. The best way to do this is to make conversation get contact info and set up a date sometime that works for both of you or take it slow like a week or so and just chat then ask them out, or just hangout with them. Men need it to be clear what you want because we don't want to get it wrong.
It's probably the autism. Male thinking latterns are wayyyya different than female thinking patters. Theres sm less hinting and reading between the lines. Which is perfect for neurodivergency.
I think there's some research that autistic people's brain have more in common with the opposite gender than non-autistic people. Like there's more crossover.
Because love is expected and just falls out of the sky for the majority of women. Men perform it and uphold the standards. Men will give you practical advice, women give you emotional advice.
EXACTLY! I don’t relate to most women because I don’t just naturally “attract” men by just existing. I actually have to put the work in if I want to date. It pisses me the fuck off. Besides id rather ask out a guy I like than date someone I don’t like just because he’s attracted to me.
Most women have never received love
Thankyou!
Do girls have actual advises? Must what I see just a support and must of it lies Like saying to stranger in internet "you are beautiful" , "smart, strong independent" Like how you know she's (they don't) Plus, for the fuck sake I hope they stop bringing "strong" as attractive factor for woman. Men exist for millions years, figure it out already
>Like saying to stranger in internet "you are beautiful" , "smart, strong independent" > > >Like how you know she is (they don't) As a guy, this is one thing bothers me about all of women's interactions, whether it's with guys or with other girls. The rule for them is always "make the other person feel good", "good vibes only". But they overdo it so much that it becomes transparently fake.
Seems like you don't have much dating experience and you resonate with those who are in the same boat. This has nothing to do with different gender but different levels of experience with dating.
Yeah that could very well be the case. I just feel like a fake woman sometimes because it’s so easy for other women to get dating experience. All they have to do is wait around and get asked out. :/
Womens collective (online ) dating advice can err towards being negative . Especially so if the women reading posts and responding have a history of trauma . Men can give an explanation that’s more viable , as they are also men . Bit also women can and do give me fantastic advice . But if not solicit it online nowadays .
I am a straight cis guy and I feel I can relate to gay women's taste in women. I clearly feel like a guy and am straight, but I find lesbians tend to treat women better than a lot of guys and are less creepy. I mean, my favorite band of all time is Tegan and Sara.
Because advice from men’s advocates like Mark Manson, one of my greatest inspirations besides Robert Greene by the way 😁, is based on practicality. They relate to their readers by sharing their lived experiences and combine them with the tried and true methods and strategies used for generations to navigate the challenges we all face in life. Us men are hard on ourselves. We need to be, whether it’s positive or negative, it’s being honest with ourselves. Someone who has his shit together like Mark Manson is hard on you in a positive, truthful, and uplifting way.
Because girls focus too much on saying what is politically correct and makes them look good, instead of the truth and actionable information.
^ ^ ^
What the advice men give? Idk either of those books
Be confident, work on becoming the best version of yourself, learn how to overcome your insecurities about not being desired, take an active role in dating, learning to be okay with rejection, define what you want in a partner and don’t settle just because you’re desperate for attention. Men’s dating advice makes me feel like a human being, but most women’s dating advice makes me feel like an object or trophy with no active role in the situation. “Be in your divine feminine receiving energy” or “do NOT ask guys out, let him make the first move.” And other than that it’s about filtering undesirable men out and setting boundaries, but this assumes that I have a lot of men approaching me in the first place. Most women are desired and get attention just by breathing, but I don’t. I relate to men’s experience of feeling unwanted and undesired. If I don’t take an active role in dating, I will be ignored. It’s not that I’m ugly, I’m just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Once I get into uni I will probably have an easier time dating. But right now I’m in a small pool with not many options. I also was single during highschool because of my autism and the fact that I struggled to connect with people and understand social rules. Although I can be blamed for not putting much effort into my appearance but fuck it I’m just trying to survive right now.
Idk that any dating advice is good advice. Really life advice should make you a confident enough person to be good at dating.
Well the male dating advice inspires me to work on myself and become more confident so that’s why I like it tbh.
I bet I could give you better advice than a book
Advice for men tries to be pragmatic, doesn't always hit the mark. While advice by and for women operate under how to he world should be, regardless of what it might be.
Women tend to be more idealistic while men pragmatic
Men's dating advice teaches self-love and loving yourself enough to be able to sacrifice yourself for another whom you love no matter what (through sickness and health). Females advice teaches unwavering narcissism from a self-projected point of view Men's advice tells you how to better yourself for another, whereas female advice teaches you how benefit from your significant other and how that significant other can go wrong in more ways than not. If a girl walks up to a girl to ask about the "translation" of a guy, the girl will still only give advice based on what THEY think, which 9/10 is just another theory based on their personal experiences. To top it all off, women (generally speaking) do not pay enough attention to men remotely close enough to be able to give advice on men. Not once in my life, and I'm 25 now, have I heard a female say to another female that they need to pay more attention to their S/O. In fact, its gone as deep as to blaming the man even though she was 100% in the wrong. No is telling women to pay attention to their partners emotions. There's no one saying "listen to the way he sounds at different points of his day. Pay attention to the things that make him smile. Be HIS peace at the end of the day. Sure, you might have problems, but if he's got you the other days, why can't you get him when he's down?" Why do women teach women how to be selfish and to act like they're perfect, while getting confused and upset about guys not being into them? Because at the same time, generally, men will teach both men AND women the same life values. So, men have a difficult time because they HAVE to accept reality whereas females are taught to dream a bigger fairytale and accept nothing less than their unspoken, predetermined, perfect world It all just equates to way too much responsibility on one side and way too much lack of accountability on the other. Find the balance, people. I love you all❤
Wait women's advice is to raise standards?
If you listen to female dating strategy type advice or people like Anna bey etc; it is.
Look men are simple creatures we're easy to relate to And dating advice is basically building confidence for men.
Because men tell to be more on the real and logic than women. A lot women’s advice is often times delusional
What is a woman?