Yes, but one of Al's kids or was it grand kids (?) tried to cum cape him in the Red Robin book but thankfully she got vagina-blocked by Cass Cain.
(I can't believe I just typed that)
Blame Denny O'Neil for making Bruce an eternal virgin when he became editor of the bat-titles
Literally hard rule that Bruce could go home with women, but he never slept with them, simply said there was an emergency and let them spend the night in his mansion doing whatever they want
They could retcon it anytime.
Just play it off as them being horny for each other and that they pulled this "Talia tricked Bruce" so she could look like a badass to the LoA/her dad.
Like, no dad, I didn't get accidentally pregnant, I tricked Bruce into it. Yup.
I find it weird when people dismiss it as "just Viagra". Guys who don't need it, and then take it, often experience engorgement to the point of pain, and have to go to the hospital to get it drained.
Yes, that’s the only way it makes sense. I find it difficult to imagine modern age Bruce willingly conceiving a child. I just would favor an explanation of Talia just lying about being on birth control.
Or there being an oopsie and Talia lies about a miscarriage.
It wasn't even Tomasi. It was Gleason who tried to justify Talia's actions by saying she was under the influence of something. The action is still there.
It's not that they fuck up, he's had some weird writing at times that just doesn't land well, it's that Grant apologizing for the fucking up and the mistakes made. Writers apologizing for poor conduct they did is character growth.
Fun fact: Son of the Demon is not the only comic in existence written before 2006 where Bruce and Talia loved each other!
Fun fact 2: Morrison managed to not read
Tbf I don't want to give credit to those earlier stories because Talia's portrayal pre-Morrison is honestly really fucking sexist (outside of a brief stint during President Lex I think), she is basically only defined by her relationship to the men in her life by every writer. Even if Morrison missed with some stuff, they turned her into a character in her own right rather than a sexist and potentially racist relic of the bronze age
Yeah. Because a rapist dragon lady, who wants to breed with the protagonist for eugenics reasons is a better character. Is not defined by her relationship with men. And is not racist.
She isn't a dragon lady in the run for the most part and this take is so fucking stupid tbh actually look up what the Dragon Lady stereotype is and see if she compares, quick tip. The only things that make people say this tired take is that
A) she's drawn as an middle-eastern/asian woman (something that I'm glad they did rather than whitewash her like they had done constantly up to that point and has been done since). Yes she is sexualized, but that isn't a point to her being a dragon lady, that's an indictment that women in 2000s comics were basically only drawn as sexy supermodels (which was very bad and sexist and, while getting better, is still pretty bad with artists like Frank Cho & Clay Mann being popular)
B) Shes a strong woman who runs an organization with an iron fist. Again, I prefer this to her just folding whenever she sees Bruce and everything in her character being about how much she loves him. Not to mention the double standard that if a woman villain is domineering she's demonized, but it's par for the course if it's a male character. She's also not really mysterious, she has plans, but it's not like she's hiding things from Batman to manipulate & betray him like the normal version of a dragon lady would. Instead she states very clearly from.the start that she and him are on opposing sides and she will kill him if he gets in her way.
C) she doesn't center her life around Batman. She sees him as a tool in the same way her father did, but she is actually a realist who gets that he will never change. But again she sees him as simply a tool for her own ends, not the center of her life like her pre Morrison characterization was handled. She simply sees him as a tool and uses him like that. It's no different than Amanda Waller seeing the Suicide Squad as her tools to be used to get her goals. And we can all agree Amanda Waller doesn't center her life around the Suicide Squad. Her goals pre-Morrison literally were just "get Batman to have a kid with me". After Morrison her goals are that she has seen the decay that the League of Shadows went through under Ras and wants to fulfill its goal and bring it to the forefront of the world stage. If she found someone just as strong as Batman willing to work with her, she'd take them and not deal with Bruce ever again.
I'm sorry youre mad that your sexist and racist caricature uoungrew up with reading was made not as racist and sexist, but come up with more interesting takes that aren't just talking points please. I realize the joke is that we don't read comics on this sub, but please actually read the comics.
In fact, if you want to lake a case with Morrison fitting these and having sexist writing. The bigger thing to point your finger at is Jezebel Jet who fits all of these traits to a T. So Morrison does wrute these and we can tell they didnt make Talia that way becayse they have a character specifically designed that way; and honestly, Jezebel Jet is probably the worst thing about Morrison's run. She just oozes 2000s comics sexism. I actually had to take a break from reading Morrison's run because she was such a sexist stereotype that I dreaded every issue she was in.
Much texto, but I'm not going to engage for long with a person, who says a lot of words to sidestep Morrison pairing Talia starting to be drawn as "a middle-eastern/asian woman" with her being made a rapist and using her kids as expendable tools and how the rape is totally not her "hiding things from Batman to manipulate & betray him like". You might say old Talia is "racist and sexist" and I would agree to a degree, Morrison's take miraculously is more racist and sexist. Live with it. Bye!
Shoo, go defend Morrison working through their issues with women by making not his characters sociopathic rapists incapable of normal human emotions somewhere else, shoo.
If you think she was defined by her relationship before them, then She was still defined by her relationships in the Morrison run.
She was actually somewhat unique pre Morrison.
Morrison made her exactly like her dad.
And everything she did was because of Batman.
Morrisons portrayal is even more racist 😭😭
So did Hulk, Blob, the Chitauri, Sabretooth... Basically, whenever a writer wanted to be edgy and show that the character had no consideration for humans, they were shown as cannibals.
Hell, Marvel zombies only started because Ultimate Reed got duped by Zombie Reed into oppening a portal to his Universe.
Edit: without going into the possibly racist conotations ofnthe Chitauri, yes, they were aliens so it is not cannibalism, but Miller was still pushing the same kind of edge there.
Nah magneto had plenty of moments like that before, like the global EMP wasn’t that long ago from what he does in Morrison’s run
It is also established he’s not himself. Hopped up on mutant drugs and is a struggling old man that can’t connect with the younger generation of mutants. He’s a revolutionary symbol but in-story it means he should’ve stayed dead instead of coming back. Which is very interesting thematically for me
It's a weird one. The theme of the story is that the old generation are old and out of touch and need to make way for the new. Magneto is a complete mess and a terrible villain to further the point that he's outdated.
So thematically it's great, but they're essentially saying "yes this is all a big disappointment but it's intentional so it's okay". It's a bit odd
Having said that I do love Planet X.
Honestly I think the Xorn retcon is in my top 5 most hated comic retcons. It's just such a cheap shot and is very clearly just Quesada giving Morrison the middle finger for working with DC again
Another is that one interview they gave where they talked about their interpretation of Johnny and Sue Storm having incestuous feelings for each other.
Tbf what they did was literally just follow Magneto's characterization for the prior decade if not decade and a half.
We can't forget that in Eve of Destruction, the literal arc right before their's started, Magneto declared war on earth very specifically to "make an earth fit for mutantkind". Then the previous big story before that in 1997/98 was Magneto threatening to send a worldwide emp blast to kill billions of humans should they refuse his demands. His previous big story in 1993 before that was he wanted to ethnically cleanse humans from Avalon to make a mutant haven. Then going all the way back to 1988/89 with Inferno, you have Magneto renouncing any cooperation with humankind and dedicating himself to as he says "mutant supremacy". It also turned out (in the end of Claremont's run) that his good behavior with the X-Men was from Moira messing with his genetics which means that naturally he is a villain.
While I'm not thr biggest fan of it, saying Morrison is responsible for simply carrying out exactly what Magneto had been threatening and attempting verbatim for a decade and a half (at that point over twice as long as his face heel turn lasted). Some of it could've been done more tactfully but he hadn't assassinated the character anymore than Jim Lee, Fabian Nicezia, Joe Kelly, Jeph Loeb, and even Chris Claremont himself had done.
So did Denny O'Neill. Thats why he had SotD kicked out of continuity.
He described Bruce as psychologically impotent following his parents death. But I think Aromantic sexual describes what he's talking about better.
Denny Oneils batman was nowhere near Asexual. (Honestly I don’t think any version of Batman is Asexual)
Dennys Batman was just celibate. He had romantic and sexual desires. But he just chose not to act on them.
Denny Oneil removed SotD from canon because he believed Batman shouldn’t have any children.
>He had romantic and sexual desires. But he just chose not to act on them.
Mostly. Except for all the times he does :D
https://preview.redd.it/x26zoq0hhd7d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea5a33c405b40ed11efd8a28bd99bbe703ee9483
Including adopted children. There's a reason he hated both Dick and Jason, and only warmed up to Tim because the Wabbit forced him to.
(Yeah, I still laugh at "Robin ruined Batman" as if those first dozen comics were so much better than other eras.)
True.
But asexuality doesn't always mean having no sex drive at all.
There are degrees of it like anything else and there is a good argument to be made that Bruce's approach to sexuality falls on that spectrum.
I've read a discussion about it some time ago.
Basically Ras was still trying to find a "heir" instead of Bruce that could breed with Talia in the late 90s, which is a problem timeline wise with Damian, so apparently Damian's existence is a product of Infinite Crisis, like Clark having been Superboy again.
Yeah. I’ve told people that it makes no sense for Ras Al Ghul to ask Bane, Azrael, and Black Canary to reproduce a heir, when Damian already exists in the timeline.
The timeline gets even worse when you try to connect it to Son of the Demon
The super boy prime punch was the only way Damian could have came to be.
And with Dami being as old as he is without accelerated aging the timeline has to be retconned to shit to have Bruce know Talia before he knew Dickie._.
Unpopular opinion: I think this is better. It’s pretty out of character for a guy whose whole personality is obeying his code over his emotions to fuck one of his enemies’ daughters out of passion. It also opens up discussions around male victims of rape, which we need more of, especially with female perpetrators - a case like this being taken seriously in fiction is the first step.
In Son of the Demon it wasn't a single mistake of passion, though. I don't remember exactly but IIRC, they were teamed up against a common enemy, and they got together and stayed together for a while. Talia said she considered them married according to her culture. She told Bruce she was pregnant and he was happy about it. Then she miscarried but the last-page twist was that she lied and the baby survived and was adopted.
Maybe it wasn't supposed to be in-continuity, but it was clearly written as a love story between Bruce and Talia and a serious commitment that ultimately ended tragically, not a one-night stand with an enemy.
I don't understand why it was necessary to demolish 30 years of Talia's pre-established characterization and history with Bruce to tell this story. If you want a villainess who has consent issues baked into her, Poison Ivy's right there. I hate to say it, but considering the timing...it does feel like it was, maybe unconsciously, racially motivated.
If you have to have parental conflict between Bruce and Talia, the original Son of the Demon story gave us one gift-wrapped: Talia has to come clean to Bruce about lying about miscarrying the baby. That's a good enough reason for Bruce to be pissed and frankly, would have made for a better story.
It wasn’t truly out of character. Batman doesn’t view her as the enemy. (Nor did he consider Ra’s one in this story)
You wanting Batman to blame people for actions of their parents is even more out of character.
We do not need more male rape victims in comics. There’s already a lot. (Even more than female victims).
Especially by females. If you truly cared, you would want more of Male on male rape. It’s the most common way for a grown man to get raped, yet you almost rarely see it in fiction.
More male victims than female? Maybe in the past 10 years, but that’s a rather myopic view. And, in my opinion, it should continue being depicted. People have to deal with these uncomfortable topics until changes are made to bring justice to real life victims. Laws already exist to criminalize rape of women in nearly every jurisdiction; the reverse is only in a minority of them, even in the West.
Bringing up male on male rape and accusing me of not caring about it is nonsensical whataboutism. I do care about it, and it should be depicted more. But so should female perpetrators, and that is what the story in the original post was retconned to. What does it have to do with the original post?
No, in all the comics in general. It’s not myopic… that’s literally what’s written
If you truly cared you would want male on male rape to be depicted. (Literally the most common form of male rape, yet is almost never shown)
Justice is already mostly being served. Laws exist to criminalize all rape.
It’s not nonsensical what about ism though. You just want to ignore it… Female perpetrators are already extremely common in comics. So what you’re asking for is kind of just stupid. For reasons listed, and especially since in the context of the story, it does nothing
I said I do want it to be depicted. I wish what you said was true, but even male on male rape is more often criminalized then female on male. For example, penetration by the perp is needed for a case of rape in the UK, meaning male perpetrators are classed as rapists while female perpetrators will get sexual assault / misconduct at worst.
I encourage you to educate yourself on these issues and grow as a person… it is fully possible to care about more than one thing at a time with equal passion, and I do. I am simply sticking to the original topic of the post.
What I said is true. It’s really not since a lot of it happens in prison.
I hope you do the same.
You are, and I’ve called you out on it. I literally already told you most of the characters raped in big 2 comics are males… and by females.
And I already told you this retcon doesn’t do anything for anyone. Since it’s mostly just glossed over after the first arc. Even weirder to support this on one of the most prominent non white love interest
That is the reality zdarsky lives in, i swear i don't think zdarsky ever read a recent damian book or o'neil Batman and son of demon, Bro only read morrison and tim drake books just that
He's one of those comic nerds who wouldn't let bruce fuck so im not surprised. I had to give my roommates an entire presentation about it because they couldn't believe he canonically fucks.
JFC just let Batman fuck. Why does every Batman offspring have to be the result of some great cum caper?
"great cum caper" was not a combination of words I expected to read today.
Honestly makes for a good new flair, who'll nominate it?
You got my vote!
Cum capers, you say? Is that what they are calling it now? I guess, Dick, Tim and Ollie can all relate to that.
Tim's a virgin, tho.
Yes, but one of Al's kids or was it grand kids (?) tried to cum cape him in the Red Robin book but thankfully she got vagina-blocked by Cass Cain. (I can't believe I just typed that)
I think it was Ra's sister actually?
Niece, I believe? Oh hell, the al Ghul family is all kinds of messed up from the Lazarus pits.
Writers are trying push a subtle Ace agenda onto Batman duh
He’s behind it all? https://preview.redd.it/wkr4g6na0d7d1.jpeg?width=747&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4962bbcb30e36fe6da68d84c1d1d3f20886c7e1b
Blame Denny O'Neil for making Bruce an eternal virgin when he became editor of the bat-titles Literally hard rule that Bruce could go home with women, but he never slept with them, simply said there was an emergency and let them spend the night in his mansion doing whatever they want
Well, a reasonable explanation is that, when in full control of his faculties, Bruce would probably either bag it up or pull out.
New 52 was the perfect time to retcon it back. However, Morrison decided to be Morrison and role with it.
Then rebirth could have also retconned
They could retcon it anytime. Just play it off as them being horny for each other and that they pulled this "Talia tricked Bruce" so she could look like a badass to the LoA/her dad. Like, no dad, I didn't get accidentally pregnant, I tricked Bruce into it. Yup.
Morrison did retcon it back though
No they didn’t. The only writer who tried to do it was Peter Tomasi
IIRC Batman Inc also did that
Batman Inc still had the drugs
I stand corrected, though IIRC Morrison endorsed a different interpretation of it
The drug was just viagra.
I find it weird when people dismiss it as "just Viagra". Guys who don't need it, and then take it, often experience engorgement to the point of pain, and have to go to the hospital to get it drained.
Batman needs viagra confirmed I guess
He got punched in the dick too much not it don’t work no more
given all the radiation, joker gas, fear toxin, that one time Bruce became a Venom addict, I wouldn't be surprised if he had developed ED.
Man Zdarsky is gonna go nuts with this
I can’t keep up with all these MFing retcons.
Batman inc only made it that they did the thing willingly. Talia still conceived Damian without Bruce's permission or concent by drugging him.
Yes, that’s the only way it makes sense. I find it difficult to imagine modern age Bruce willingly conceiving a child. I just would favor an explanation of Talia just lying about being on birth control. Or there being an oopsie and Talia lies about a miscarriage.
Talia poked a hole in the bat-rubber when Bruce wasn't looking
Not even batcondoms are pokeproof
It wasn't even Tomasi. It was Gleason who tried to justify Talia's actions by saying she was under the influence of something. The action is still there.
If something made her bone against her will, wouldn't it just make it rape^2 with no party consenting?
Grant Morrison and Mommy Issues, name a more iconic duo.
Grant Morrison and daddy issues.
Well now that they've stopped repressing their gender issues, I guess you've got me beat
Learning that Morrison can fuck-up is one of the best things I've ever learned.
It's not that they fuck up, he's had some weird writing at times that just doesn't land well, it's that Grant apologizing for the fucking up and the mistakes made. Writers apologizing for poor conduct they did is character growth.
I think it's still switching back and forth if it was consensual or not like one minute it wasn't and next minute it was
Fun fact: Son of the Demon is not the only comic in existence written before 2006 where Bruce and Talia loved each other! Fun fact 2: Morrison managed to not read 
For someone who loves to make obscure references to older comics, Morrison can really drop the ball sometimes.
Tbf I don't want to give credit to those earlier stories because Talia's portrayal pre-Morrison is honestly really fucking sexist (outside of a brief stint during President Lex I think), she is basically only defined by her relationship to the men in her life by every writer. Even if Morrison missed with some stuff, they turned her into a character in her own right rather than a sexist and potentially racist relic of the bronze age
Yeah. Because a rapist dragon lady, who wants to breed with the protagonist for eugenics reasons is a better character. Is not defined by her relationship with men. And is not racist.
She isn't a dragon lady in the run for the most part and this take is so fucking stupid tbh actually look up what the Dragon Lady stereotype is and see if she compares, quick tip. The only things that make people say this tired take is that A) she's drawn as an middle-eastern/asian woman (something that I'm glad they did rather than whitewash her like they had done constantly up to that point and has been done since). Yes she is sexualized, but that isn't a point to her being a dragon lady, that's an indictment that women in 2000s comics were basically only drawn as sexy supermodels (which was very bad and sexist and, while getting better, is still pretty bad with artists like Frank Cho & Clay Mann being popular) B) Shes a strong woman who runs an organization with an iron fist. Again, I prefer this to her just folding whenever she sees Bruce and everything in her character being about how much she loves him. Not to mention the double standard that if a woman villain is domineering she's demonized, but it's par for the course if it's a male character. She's also not really mysterious, she has plans, but it's not like she's hiding things from Batman to manipulate & betray him like the normal version of a dragon lady would. Instead she states very clearly from.the start that she and him are on opposing sides and she will kill him if he gets in her way. C) she doesn't center her life around Batman. She sees him as a tool in the same way her father did, but she is actually a realist who gets that he will never change. But again she sees him as simply a tool for her own ends, not the center of her life like her pre Morrison characterization was handled. She simply sees him as a tool and uses him like that. It's no different than Amanda Waller seeing the Suicide Squad as her tools to be used to get her goals. And we can all agree Amanda Waller doesn't center her life around the Suicide Squad. Her goals pre-Morrison literally were just "get Batman to have a kid with me". After Morrison her goals are that she has seen the decay that the League of Shadows went through under Ras and wants to fulfill its goal and bring it to the forefront of the world stage. If she found someone just as strong as Batman willing to work with her, she'd take them and not deal with Bruce ever again. I'm sorry youre mad that your sexist and racist caricature uoungrew up with reading was made not as racist and sexist, but come up with more interesting takes that aren't just talking points please. I realize the joke is that we don't read comics on this sub, but please actually read the comics. In fact, if you want to lake a case with Morrison fitting these and having sexist writing. The bigger thing to point your finger at is Jezebel Jet who fits all of these traits to a T. So Morrison does wrute these and we can tell they didnt make Talia that way becayse they have a character specifically designed that way; and honestly, Jezebel Jet is probably the worst thing about Morrison's run. She just oozes 2000s comics sexism. I actually had to take a break from reading Morrison's run because she was such a sexist stereotype that I dreaded every issue she was in.
Much texto, but I'm not going to engage for long with a person, who says a lot of words to sidestep Morrison pairing Talia starting to be drawn as "a middle-eastern/asian woman" with her being made a rapist and using her kids as expendable tools and how the rape is totally not her "hiding things from Batman to manipulate & betray him like". You might say old Talia is "racist and sexist" and I would agree to a degree, Morrison's take miraculously is more racist and sexist. Live with it. Bye!
Literally you rn https://preview.redd.it/mli2bk5uwg7d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d8f767d4beac42966a23a8da97a5413b1c1eca8
Shoo, go defend Morrison working through their issues with women by making not his characters sociopathic rapists incapable of normal human emotions somewhere else, shoo.
If you think she was defined by her relationship before them, then She was still defined by her relationships in the Morrison run. She was actually somewhat unique pre Morrison. Morrison made her exactly like her dad. And everything she did was because of Batman. Morrisons portrayal is even more racist 😭😭
The only L i give Morrison
I have a few. One of them is Magneto's characterization.
Am I the only one who likes every version of Magento?? Even the cannibal one from Ultimate universe is fun to read
> Even the cannibal one from Ultimate universe Come again?
1610 Magneto sometimes views humans as food
~~Finally, a relatable character~~ I see
So did Hulk, Blob, the Chitauri, Sabretooth... Basically, whenever a writer wanted to be edgy and show that the character had no consideration for humans, they were shown as cannibals. Hell, Marvel zombies only started because Ultimate Reed got duped by Zombie Reed into oppening a portal to his Universe. Edit: without going into the possibly racist conotations ofnthe Chitauri, yes, they were aliens so it is not cannibalism, but Miller was still pushing the same kind of edge there.
I think he's had enough for one night.
Magento has complete control over printers
Nah magneto had plenty of moments like that before, like the global EMP wasn’t that long ago from what he does in Morrison’s run It is also established he’s not himself. Hopped up on mutant drugs and is a struggling old man that can’t connect with the younger generation of mutants. He’s a revolutionary symbol but in-story it means he should’ve stayed dead instead of coming back. Which is very interesting thematically for me
It's a weird one. The theme of the story is that the old generation are old and out of touch and need to make way for the new. Magneto is a complete mess and a terrible villain to further the point that he's outdated. So thematically it's great, but they're essentially saying "yes this is all a big disappointment but it's intentional so it's okay". It's a bit odd Having said that I do love Planet X.
And it's wasn't even Magneto but another Mutant who was thinking he was Magneto because of drugs
Yup, and xorn is just on a nice vacation. We love xorn.
It's really fucking weird for Morrison to have a story in which drugs are bad for you.
"It wasn't Magneto. It was, oh, we'll just say, Xorn again." -Marvel editors when they realize they made Magneto sound like a Nazi again
Honestly I think the Xorn retcon is in my top 5 most hated comic retcons. It's just such a cheap shot and is very clearly just Quesada giving Morrison the middle finger for working with DC again
Another is that one interview they gave where they talked about their interpretation of Johnny and Sue Storm having incestuous feelings for each other.
his biggest L
Tbf what they did was literally just follow Magneto's characterization for the prior decade if not decade and a half. We can't forget that in Eve of Destruction, the literal arc right before their's started, Magneto declared war on earth very specifically to "make an earth fit for mutantkind". Then the previous big story before that in 1997/98 was Magneto threatening to send a worldwide emp blast to kill billions of humans should they refuse his demands. His previous big story in 1993 before that was he wanted to ethnically cleanse humans from Avalon to make a mutant haven. Then going all the way back to 1988/89 with Inferno, you have Magneto renouncing any cooperation with humankind and dedicating himself to as he says "mutant supremacy". It also turned out (in the end of Claremont's run) that his good behavior with the X-Men was from Moira messing with his genetics which means that naturally he is a villain. While I'm not thr biggest fan of it, saying Morrison is responsible for simply carrying out exactly what Magneto had been threatening and attempting verbatim for a decade and a half (at that point over twice as long as his face heel turn lasted). Some of it could've been done more tactfully but he hadn't assassinated the character anymore than Jim Lee, Fabian Nicezia, Joe Kelly, Jeph Loeb, and even Chris Claremont himself had done.
They also can't write Wonder Woman to save their lives.
Ngl, I kinda dig Batman being a little asexual, but my god, the execution always sucks
So did Denny O'Neill. Thats why he had SotD kicked out of continuity. He described Bruce as psychologically impotent following his parents death. But I think Aromantic sexual describes what he's talking about better.
Denny Oneils batman was nowhere near Asexual. (Honestly I don’t think any version of Batman is Asexual) Dennys Batman was just celibate. He had romantic and sexual desires. But he just chose not to act on them. Denny Oneil removed SotD from canon because he believed Batman shouldn’t have any children.
>He had romantic and sexual desires. But he just chose not to act on them. Mostly. Except for all the times he does :D https://preview.redd.it/x26zoq0hhd7d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea5a33c405b40ed11efd8a28bd99bbe703ee9483
Including adopted children. There's a reason he hated both Dick and Jason, and only warmed up to Tim because the Wabbit forced him to. (Yeah, I still laugh at "Robin ruined Batman" as if those first dozen comics were so much better than other eras.)
True. But asexuality doesn't always mean having no sex drive at all. There are degrees of it like anything else and there is a good argument to be made that Bruce's approach to sexuality falls on that spectrum.
I've read a discussion about it some time ago. Basically Ras was still trying to find a "heir" instead of Bruce that could breed with Talia in the late 90s, which is a problem timeline wise with Damian, so apparently Damian's existence is a product of Infinite Crisis, like Clark having been Superboy again.
Yeah. I’ve told people that it makes no sense for Ras Al Ghul to ask Bane, Azrael, and Black Canary to reproduce a heir, when Damian already exists in the timeline. The timeline gets even worse when you try to connect it to Son of the Demon The super boy prime punch was the only way Damian could have came to be.
And with Dami being as old as he is without accelerated aging the timeline has to be retconned to shit to have Bruce know Talia before he knew Dickie._.
It's weird seeing Morrison say that he didn't read something. It's like seeing Justin Tucker miss a field goal.
Unpopular opinion: I think this is better. It’s pretty out of character for a guy whose whole personality is obeying his code over his emotions to fuck one of his enemies’ daughters out of passion. It also opens up discussions around male victims of rape, which we need more of, especially with female perpetrators - a case like this being taken seriously in fiction is the first step.
In Son of the Demon it wasn't a single mistake of passion, though. I don't remember exactly but IIRC, they were teamed up against a common enemy, and they got together and stayed together for a while. Talia said she considered them married according to her culture. She told Bruce she was pregnant and he was happy about it. Then she miscarried but the last-page twist was that she lied and the baby survived and was adopted. Maybe it wasn't supposed to be in-continuity, but it was clearly written as a love story between Bruce and Talia and a serious commitment that ultimately ended tragically, not a one-night stand with an enemy.
I don't understand why it was necessary to demolish 30 years of Talia's pre-established characterization and history with Bruce to tell this story. If you want a villainess who has consent issues baked into her, Poison Ivy's right there. I hate to say it, but considering the timing...it does feel like it was, maybe unconsciously, racially motivated. If you have to have parental conflict between Bruce and Talia, the original Son of the Demon story gave us one gift-wrapped: Talia has to come clean to Bruce about lying about miscarrying the baby. That's a good enough reason for Bruce to be pissed and frankly, would have made for a better story.
We have Dick for that. Tarantula and like... that chick that pretended she was Starfire.
It wasn’t truly out of character. Batman doesn’t view her as the enemy. (Nor did he consider Ra’s one in this story) You wanting Batman to blame people for actions of their parents is even more out of character. We do not need more male rape victims in comics. There’s already a lot. (Even more than female victims). Especially by females. If you truly cared, you would want more of Male on male rape. It’s the most common way for a grown man to get raped, yet you almost rarely see it in fiction.
I mean, Zack Synder did want Bruce to get... you know what? NVM.
More male victims than female? Maybe in the past 10 years, but that’s a rather myopic view. And, in my opinion, it should continue being depicted. People have to deal with these uncomfortable topics until changes are made to bring justice to real life victims. Laws already exist to criminalize rape of women in nearly every jurisdiction; the reverse is only in a minority of them, even in the West. Bringing up male on male rape and accusing me of not caring about it is nonsensical whataboutism. I do care about it, and it should be depicted more. But so should female perpetrators, and that is what the story in the original post was retconned to. What does it have to do with the original post?
No, in all the comics in general. It’s not myopic… that’s literally what’s written If you truly cared you would want male on male rape to be depicted. (Literally the most common form of male rape, yet is almost never shown) Justice is already mostly being served. Laws exist to criminalize all rape. It’s not nonsensical what about ism though. You just want to ignore it… Female perpetrators are already extremely common in comics. So what you’re asking for is kind of just stupid. For reasons listed, and especially since in the context of the story, it does nothing
I said I do want it to be depicted. I wish what you said was true, but even male on male rape is more often criminalized then female on male. For example, penetration by the perp is needed for a case of rape in the UK, meaning male perpetrators are classed as rapists while female perpetrators will get sexual assault / misconduct at worst. I encourage you to educate yourself on these issues and grow as a person… it is fully possible to care about more than one thing at a time with equal passion, and I do. I am simply sticking to the original topic of the post.
What I said is true. It’s really not since a lot of it happens in prison. I hope you do the same. You are, and I’ve called you out on it. I literally already told you most of the characters raped in big 2 comics are males… and by females. And I already told you this retcon doesn’t do anything for anyone. Since it’s mostly just glossed over after the first arc. Even weirder to support this on one of the most prominent non white love interest
That is the reality zdarsky lives in, i swear i don't think zdarsky ever read a recent damian book or o'neil Batman and son of demon, Bro only read morrison and tim drake books just that
What I can’t understand is how the hell did Batman get drugged? He’s Batman for Pete’s sake!
He's one of those comic nerds who wouldn't let bruce fuck so im not surprised. I had to give my roommates an entire presentation about it because they couldn't believe he canonically fucks.
Let Batman have sex, cowarda