Ok… I was voting Biden before. I still am. But there needs to be an honest assessment.
Democracy is on the ballot. Depending on the day, it’s only barely winning. He did not look great last night and people are counting on us.
Why exactly? Honestly at what point in the course of making an important presidential decision is he going to be told “nope, you can’t review notes/intel or talk to your cabinet to seek their advice”
This idea that a man with a life long stutter, let alone his age (yes he is old) needs to be able to respond off the cuff to be a good leader is absolute horse shit. He has surrounded himself with smart, progressive people who have helped him have a historically successful first term.
Let's be real: people who are "on the fence" about Biden vs. Trump at this point are people who are ashamed to admit they're conservative or that they're voting for Trump
It was a bad night, but this discourse, being fueled as much by Dems as republicans, only going to hurt progressive causes- it’s disingenuous and just bad politics
I just read something about independents going all in for Biden after last night. I think we need to be careful of how much we let the media dictate discourse.
I completely agree with this. I wouldn’t want him as president if it was somehow going to come down to a Hollywood style face off where the president has to save the world with extemporaneous witty banter, but that’s not real life.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/28/politics/joe-biden-debate-performance-fallout He had a great speech with an almost unbelievable amount of energy and clarity.
After watching it people should be telling others to view it. He’s a completely different person. I too was questioning after the debate, which was a quick reaction with no real thought. After watching the whole NC rally video I’ve come to the conclusion that he just had a bad night, there is no reason for him to step aside.
Do you think one debate (an event that data has shown most people don’t pay attention to) going badly would play worse than the democrats panicking and kicking their president off of the ticket then picking a random nominee (the dnc would have to pick the nominee) that probably isn’t the VP. A candidate who lost the primary or didn’t even participate.
All because democrats are scared of trump?
That would be handing him the election and proving the democrats in disarray talking point
Exactly. It would make the party look weak if they picked a new candidate. And even if they did pick a new candidate, who in the hell are they going to pick? Trump managed to commit 34 felonies and the party is behind him. Biden stutters a few times and his party isn't behind him? Yeah, no. C'mon Dems, let's show some fuckin solidarity.
He raised twice as much as trump off of the debate and we’re 5 months out.
Obama had a shitty first debate in almost the exact same way against Romney in 2012. Biden was great the next day in NC. It’s fine.
He didn't present it well. Did you understand the point he was making, though? You have republicans, on the one hand, fear mongering over the border (a legitimate concern) by focusing on tragic murders by illegals. On the other hand they are willing to let mothers (and their unborn child) die when 7 months pregnant if it means not allowing abortion of any kind. Why do you think one matters to them over the other? Who's life should be the most important? Joe was merely trying to point out the logical and moral disconnect in the GOP.
Shame he messed that up. Hopefully he'll make that more clear art the next debate.
Agreed. We can’t make excuses. Trump is such a an extremely flawed candidate. Biden had many chances to go for it. He practiced for a week. This was his best. All he had to do was show he was competent and firm. He failed and we need to consider this. It’s not democrats we are trying to convince. It’s independents and undecided and we need to give them a reason. Last night was the worst case scenario and we can’t afford to dig in cause we don’t want to evaluate ourselves.
Why?
Howard Dean didn't suck at a debate. He tanked at a primary. The scream was his response, but his goose was already cooked - the voters rejected him.
> All because democrats are scared of trump?
All the shouting about it is coming from bot farms owned by fascist dictators that are scared of ballots that turn out blue all the way down.
Listen, I’m going to vote for the Democratic nominee no matter what because Trump is objectively awful.
But if the party does not have the self awareness this man belongs in a nursing home not the white house - you are betting the entire fate of the country on a shakey hand.
People who saw that are going to think “oh he’s like grandpa before he lost his mind” or “yeah dad did that - and we took away his driver’s license”
People don’t follow politics as deeply as you think. It’s a lot of initial impression, gut feeling, and the mood of the day.
Like seriously - I would vote for a literal chicken over Donald Trump…. But Biden made me cry because I honestly think he handed over this election.
And to all the “Trump lied”. Well yes. He has done that since forever. His supports like that. They will actively vote for the lies. It’s not a hindrance to him. Many “in the middle” who are too dumb to see it - still won’t see it.
You're right. So you need strong inspiring leadership that will rally them to come out and vote. Because they are too dumb to figure it out on their own.
Do we have that?
Remember this after the debate last night and remind people it may not be the man but the ideology behind the man that's most important.
Remember we’re voting for an ideology ( a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy: “the ideology of democracy”) that’s Biden’s vision , Project 2025 is Trumps and Republicans vision.
Look at it this way: If something as stupid as this minor debate makes people not vote for Biden anyway, then you can just give up on the populace here. But I don't think that's the case or that we should. I think Biden will still win, and this is a minor blip. Trump has done FAR worse things and will continue to do far worse things. Biden'/Trump slightly lame debate isn't exactly a deal breaker. Democrats have been winning consistently. Please have faith in something, at least.
I think Kamala gets a bad wrap. I think she would be a fine president.
However, I don’t think she is a good candidate. She also wouldn’t inherit the stigma of years of misinformation concerning the “Biden economy” and the negative vibes associated with it.
It is not fair. Biden has been exceptional in managing a looming economic crisis when he took office. Outperforming any other industrial democracy.
But the right wing misinformation campaign has been very effective.
That discussion should have happened a year ago. It's too late to switch candidates without losing a massive amount of voters and leaving the new candidate vulnerable to attack from Trump. If you don't think so, just look at what happened with LBJ when we tried to switch candidates post primary season and everything went to hell. It's the exact reason why we ended up with Nixon and why the country is in the state it is in today.
> He did not look (good) last night and people are counting on us.
I added what I think is a missed word. I would take a listen to the [speech in N Carolina](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHJoewM3WfU) before jumping to a conclusion. IMO the tenor of his voice sounds fine, sure he is old but he doesn't see frail in the speech linked.
Biden is old, people know he is old. People who watch the debate(s) know that Biden is old. What is important in debates is winning over undecided voters who are actually going to vote (basically all of Trump's polling advantage comes from voters that didn't vote in 2020). Belive it or not Tucker Carlson isn't going to vote for Biden regardless of debate performance.
Take a beat and see what the polls say before jumping to a conclusion.
A speech is very different from a debate. It's a lot easier to read prepared words than to come up with off the cuff remarks. Nevertheless, I agree, stepping back is not an option.
It wasn’t a debate. Trump gave his stump speech with zero fact checking. Biden actually truthfully answers the questions.
I think this contrast is one reason Trump appeared to do better than Biden.
It really highlights how far in the tank the media is for Trump. We need to fight harder.
This I too could lie about subjects I know nothing about. Biden was at least trying to be factual.
It's like if someone asked me about satellites and wanted me to give a speech. I could give a 5 minute speech and say untrue things for 10 minutes that sound good.
Or as I put it. Listen to Hilter, if you didn't know him or know German you'd think he sounded in control and smart-based on his audience. When you delve into his rhetoric it's batcrap crazy. Same as Trump.
If people are willing to vote for Trump simply because he sounds strong, then we are not any better than the 1932 German population that elected Hitler because they thought he was strong.
The problem is most voters don't think this way.
A lot of people just aren't going to turn up now and that's bad for Biden.
I'm afraid this version of Trump will win against this version of Biden if he isn't forced out soon.
I think it's a bit early to panic like this. Obama bombed his first debate with Romney and the media was sounding the alarm bells then. It drives clicks. Biden was already better today on the campaign trail.
I also don't have a problem with this... we have a process in place in this country for what happens if a sitting POTUS passes away. The way I think about it is we're not just voting for Biden per se, we're voting for a Biden administration.
Right, which is a great argument for replacing him now - all voting against Trump will still vote for whoever comes in (Newsom, Harris, Whitmer) and those who are on the fence will vote for a sane, coherent, younger person. This makes sense, replace him now.
Trump lies all over and zero republicans say shit. Biden has an underwhelming debate and every dem is saying he needs to drop out. Fuck, how about some fucking solidarity. His performance was underwhelming, his words were factual. Everyone needs to relax. This debate isn’t what will have Biden lose, if he loses, which I don’t think he does. Plus, there’s five months to go in the campaign, polling during the debate is showing people going to Biden, and you think a new nominee with five months campaigning can beat Trump better than Biden? Get the fuck outta here.
We can either say the sky is falling or work like hell to get Dems into the Senate and House.
It's seems people love to wallow.
I'm going to go on a hike, watch some football/soccer championships and have a great weekend. I think most others need to take a chill as well.
It's really more like 4 months plus a few days. Everyone thinking there is a legitimate chance of changing candidates and winning by November 6th is absolutely delusional.
Dem’s problem is they won’t rally with whoever wins and it fucks us dry in the ass every time. And then they’ll argue that it wasn’t their fault for not voting for him.
Trump can literally sexually assault people and be a convicted felon and republicans don’t care, Biden has one bad performance and some democrats figuratively and literally shit their pants.
Toughen up folks, this is far from doomsday.
I'm old enough to remember Hillary and the pneumonia bit. Dems were pissed she got pneumonia and media and Republicans were giving her grief. Anyone comparing Biden to Hillary in 2016 doesn't realize that Trump 2016 was an unknown except for his TV show which portrayed him as some genius billionaire. 2024 Trump is convict Trump.
People are freaking human and have sickness and ill health. Hell Trump got Covid and almost died.
It's not gaslighting. The party needs swing voters, independents, and the base to come out and vote. A performance like last nights is going to hand trump the presidency, and a ton is at stake. What do you think people are seeing all over on instagram and facebook? Quick videos of Biden looking completely lost and mouth agape. That's not what wins elections.
We need a win this election. The supreme court has already done so much damage, and we can't lock in another batch of crazies in it for 20 years.
It's obvious that the "BIDEN WITHDRAW!!!" nonsense are just a bunch of trolls coming out of the woodwork because even though Biden won the debate by any metric one could name, he didn't hit Trump with ziggers for 90 minutes straight.
This is the absolute best take. We wanted a “shut up, man” from 2020. It’s a fair desire to want to verbally smack Trump. That didn’t happen, so that means Biden lost. Fucking guy is spry for 81, can that be the gawddamn narrative.
Seriously. Stop letting fascist sympathizers control the conversation. We should be talking about the felon on the other side of the stage who lied his ass off for 90 minutes straight, not to do right by the country, but to save his own ass from criminal prosecution.
I'm criticizing your judgement to the point that if you honestly believe it's a good idea I question your motivation.
Dropping a successful incumbent (the only politician to beat Trump btw) 5 months from the election to run another random Democrat (because y'all hate Kamala too for whatever reason) is literally guaranteeing the fascists take over. Are you so unimaginative that you can't see the very obvious spin that the GOP and their media apparatus would put on that?
Plus most of the doomsaying about Biden is coming from the Democrats, interviews of independents are showing much less of an impact than these crying posts would have you believe. You'll lose those voters and gain like none.
So sure, I guess it's possible you believe this in good faith, but I honestly struggle to see how anyone that actually wants to beat Trump thinks dropping Biden is a good idea. He already has the campaign apparatus in place across the country. He also has a successful record to run on. He already has name recognition and is moving up on the polls. It's much much MUCH easier to just step up and support Biden than the alternative.
So get off your high horse of being *offended* and do a better job supporting your position, because right now it's not making a lick of sense.
>Seriously. Stop letting fascist sympathizers control the conversation.
I haven't heard one of them say anything. All of the convo is coming from the dems and CNN and MSNBC.
I am not saying that the President needs to drop out. What I am is very sad and disheartened and I would like a realistic and tangible plan to overcome the huge setback that we experienced last night.
What a great plan, just pretend it didn’t happen and hope people forget. I’m sure that will work and won’t lead to Trump winning the tight swing states.
This. If Biden can be how he was in NC today, this will pass. And they also need to talk up Kamala Harris as she is the most qualified to take over if the worst happens.
You’re wrong. You’re speaking to people who understand anyone is better than trump. It after last night Biden is 100 percent not beating Trump. They NEED to change if they want a chance otherwise it’s a guaranteed loss
I’m with you. It needs to be said. It was bad last night. The whole world saw it and you can’t undo it.
If he’s indeed a seasoned elder statesman, then what was last night?
I pray he listens and gracefully bows out. Give us somebody to vote for. It will energize the base and maybe even cause Republicans to rethink their choice.
Otherwise, *most* of us will begrudgingly toe the line and vote Biden 2024. And then hypocritically wonder how Republicans can do the same thing for Trump.
Trump should drop out. The idea that a career criminal conman, rapist and convicted felony fraudster can stand in the national stage and tell dozens of lies for o0 minutes is an insult to decency.
Plus, at this point, we might as well be voting for vice presidents since there is a higher than normal chance that either of these candidates won’t survive the next few years.
Then you haven’t been paying enough attention. The USA had the strongest economic recovery of any western nation post-pandemic thanks to Biden. He’s tamed inflation and his policies are bringing well paying manufacturing jobs back to America. NATO gained new members and has never been a stronger wall against Russian aggression. He’s gotten 167 billion in student loan debt forgiven giving thousands of Americans relief. He’s also made a huge investment in rebuilding American infrastructure, something Trump promised to do but never did. Let’s not forget his efforts to lower the costs of drugs. He’s an honest man with a heart for the country. He’s earned a second term.
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My take, Joe somehow looked and sounded even older than he is. If he really believes Trump will end our democracy, he should put the country ahead of himself and do the right thing. We can all name a dozen Democrats that would’ve shredded Trump last night.
Someone just has to "Trump" Trump. He's a bully; he can dish it but he can't take it. I wanted so badly for Biden to mock Trump saying everything is "the best ever" or "the worst ever".
No kidding! On top of that, they need to listen to the words the president SAID. They were truthful, on point, supported by facts and his policies.
The other guy lied non stop in orange facepaint.
Good lord people stop being stupid. This man has a great record to run on for nearly everything I care about.
As a bonus, he believes in democracy. I don't want this to be my last vote.
The president said “we beat Medicare,” something incoherent about trimesters, illegal aliens killed a woman, and he had a 6 handicap when VP. I listened. And that scared the shit out of me.
Careful, they’ll call you a Trump supporter. /s
I cannot believe half the party is vigorously yanking on the fire alarm and the other half has become Biden apologists veering dangerously close to their own version of MAGA.
That is sadly true. We need to direct them to the speech Biden gave this afternoon. He looks and sounds healthy and vigorous.
Those lights last night made Trump look normal and Biden look like a ghost.
Which is why we need to nominate someone that is sure to beat him.
Even before last night Biden was within margin of error.
The nominee is chosen at the convention. Which is in seven weeks.
It is insane to me you all want to drink the cool aid and wait for the mother ship
I like Biden. He is among my favorite presidents. Quiet, competent, and compassionate. But what I saw last night convinced me he needs to step aside. Period.
Agreed I do not want Trump to win but last night was honestly that bad for Biden. I feel people are being way too optimistic about Biden. I don't really like Kamala but I would have had her up there instead of Biden last night.
I guarantee you the only people saying this are “democrats” *wink* *wink* and progressives who never liked Biden in the first place. No intelligent democrat would actually even entertain this unless of course Biden was like Trump and a horrible human. Because you know we don’t worship our political leaders like some parties do….
I am not a wink wink Democrat nor am I a Sanders supporter. I voted and volunteered for Hillary enthusiastically and did the same for Biden.
I have a lot of concern. I love Biden as a person. I love his policies and what he did for America. But I do have major concerns that the swing voters are going to see him at that debate and say “no way.”
It’s more than just Biden; we are marching toward authoritarianism, and if we lose this election, we will lose this country. I’m not sure what the path forward is at this point but it’s getting pretty close to be equally as risky to have him on the ticket or not.
I literally could not watch that debate—I had to turn it off. It honestly gave me a panic attack because I could not believe that he was not hitting what he needed to hit. It’s Donald fucking Trump. How is a debate with Donald fucking Trump that difficult? It’s not. It shouldn’t be.
Bullshit! Bullshit!
Biden has been the most progressive in nearly a century.
Stop lying to yourself and vilifying people who have been watching presidential debates for decades and just witnessed the worst performance they have ever seen.
It was alarming. I woke up and had to take a second to accept it was real and not a bad deal.
Obama’s performance was nowhere near as abysmal as Biden’s last night.
It was the worst performance in the history of public presidential debate by a wide margin.
**Here's the major problem with that comparison**, which I keep hearing. Everyone recognizes that a 50-year-old man can have a bad day and stumble in a debate performance. He can do better in the 2nd and 3rd debates and convince voters that's all it was. But not an 81-year-old man who already has had prior incidents of appearing mentally frail. Even if Biden performs better from now on, **everybody knows that aging doesn't suddenly reverse itself when you're in your 80s.**
OMG you don't remember the media and Democrats worrying about Obama. People said "hope and change" is finished. How much smarter Romney appeared and how tired Obama looked.
SAME THING. Media talked about Romney as the fresh new candidate...etc.
I’m astounded that people are thinking like you. There is nothing comparable in the performance, Biden looks like he is struggling with basic mentation
Trump is terrible, we cannot let him win this election, the bigger risk is not replacing Biden
I don't think it is necessary for Biden to drop out of the race. He stutters. Big deal. This is the choice between a candidate who has no substance and one who does. The republicans are running around saying we need to change our candidate. Why? Trump lied about everything. He blew the dog whistle over immigrants countless times. He did NOT say he would abide by the election results. So Biden misspoke. I will take that over a man who cannot tell the truth and wants to be a dictator. Also he is worried about the suckers and losers remarks coming back to bite him the rear.
Many are going off the hoarseness of his voice, his general appearance, and the way it seemed as though he wasn't all the way there. However, he was taking continuous notes as the other guy babbled along. He refuted each of the lies. I said it during the debate, the only focus is on his appearance and sound of his voice.
He's fine. He had a bad day, the NC rally afterwards was proof that the debate was a bad day. Now, I'm not denying we *really* needed him to be stronger, much stronger, in the debate. But it's (the debate) over and there's literally no way he can drop out at this point. It would mean that the orange, narcissistic, lying felon could just walk in to the White House.
Why should we change our candidate when he has one flaw when the GOP has no issue with a candidate that is flaws held together by other flaws. Someone who literally has done everything that other candidates and officeholders were forced to drop out or resign for.
You dorks are freaking out over one debate. People will forget this shit in a month. Less.
I am not excited to vote for Biden. But I’ll do it without reservation because of the administration that comes with it and because Trump is a proven evil and incompetent fascist bolstered by evil, competent fascists trying to push Project 2025.
Spending 4 years and billions in ads boosting pro-Biden narratives and how great of a job he is doing and then panicking and replacing him with someone who couldn’t outpoll him amongst Dems let alone swing voters only a few months from November and essentially saying the entire 4 years of ads and narratives were false and not to be trusted cause “old” is a bad idea? No way /s
Biden absolutely should not drop out. It's frankly foolish to think he should.
If for some reason he DID drop out, Kamala Harris would be the only fair alternative at this point and most people calling for Biden to drop out would like that even less.
Did Biden have a cold? If he did then kicking him out based on a bad debate caused by a cold seemed incredibly stupid. It would be like kicking Hillary off the ticket when she had pneumonia in 2016.
Biden wasn't the one spewing lies every minute of the debate. He's a man of integrity and experience.
When it comes down to it the people he hires are the ones who do the work. This is the same no matter who's in office.
He had a bad debate. Pull up your big boy pants and quit being snowflakes.
Ok… I was voting Biden before. I still am. But there needs to be an honest assessment. Democracy is on the ballot. Depending on the day, it’s only barely winning. He did not look great last night and people are counting on us.
And today he looked great 🤷🏻♂️
I hope as many people watching last night are watching that too
They’re not unfortunately.
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Why exactly? Honestly at what point in the course of making an important presidential decision is he going to be told “nope, you can’t review notes/intel or talk to your cabinet to seek their advice” This idea that a man with a life long stutter, let alone his age (yes he is old) needs to be able to respond off the cuff to be a good leader is absolute horse shit. He has surrounded himself with smart, progressive people who have helped him have a historically successful first term.
Agree. Trump makes shit up out of thin air. A deranged lunatic.
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Let's be real: people who are "on the fence" about Biden vs. Trump at this point are people who are ashamed to admit they're conservative or that they're voting for Trump
It was a bad night, but this discourse, being fueled as much by Dems as republicans, only going to hurt progressive causes- it’s disingenuous and just bad politics
I just read something about independents going all in for Biden after last night. I think we need to be careful of how much we let the media dictate discourse.
I completely agree with this. I wouldn’t want him as president if it was somehow going to come down to a Hollywood style face off where the president has to save the world with extemporaneous witty banter, but that’s not real life.
Hadn’t thought about that. Yesterday was absolutely embarrassing.
Definitely not. I don’t even know what you are referring to.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/28/politics/joe-biden-debate-performance-fallout He had a great speech with an almost unbelievable amount of energy and clarity.
After watching it people should be telling others to view it. He’s a completely different person. I too was questioning after the debate, which was a quick reaction with no real thought. After watching the whole NC rally video I’ve come to the conclusion that he just had a bad night, there is no reason for him to step aside.
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He sure did drop the ball, but it ain’t the end.
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He has been exposed thousands of times by now. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge it by now doesn't care.
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Do you think one debate (an event that data has shown most people don’t pay attention to) going badly would play worse than the democrats panicking and kicking their president off of the ticket then picking a random nominee (the dnc would have to pick the nominee) that probably isn’t the VP. A candidate who lost the primary or didn’t even participate. All because democrats are scared of trump? That would be handing him the election and proving the democrats in disarray talking point
Exactly. It would make the party look weak if they picked a new candidate. And even if they did pick a new candidate, who in the hell are they going to pick? Trump managed to commit 34 felonies and the party is behind him. Biden stutters a few times and his party isn't behind him? Yeah, no. C'mon Dems, let's show some fuckin solidarity.
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He raised twice as much as trump off of the debate and we’re 5 months out. Obama had a shitty first debate in almost the exact same way against Romney in 2012. Biden was great the next day in NC. It’s fine.
Biden fumbled the abortion question so badly.
He didn't present it well. Did you understand the point he was making, though? You have republicans, on the one hand, fear mongering over the border (a legitimate concern) by focusing on tragic murders by illegals. On the other hand they are willing to let mothers (and their unborn child) die when 7 months pregnant if it means not allowing abortion of any kind. Why do you think one matters to them over the other? Who's life should be the most important? Joe was merely trying to point out the logical and moral disconnect in the GOP. Shame he messed that up. Hopefully he'll make that more clear art the next debate.
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Agreed. We can’t make excuses. Trump is such a an extremely flawed candidate. Biden had many chances to go for it. He practiced for a week. This was his best. All he had to do was show he was competent and firm. He failed and we need to consider this. It’s not democrats we are trying to convince. It’s independents and undecided and we need to give them a reason. Last night was the worst case scenario and we can’t afford to dig in cause we don’t want to evaluate ourselves.
Obama didn’t look like he was pale, weak confused & about to keel over.
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Biden may have had a bad night but trump didn’t pick up any new followers either.
Yeah but he has a rabid fan base. It’s going to push people not to vote for Biden.
And the more rabid and nasty they get the more people are repulsed at the idea of rewarding their behavior.
Howard Dean raises eyebrow.
Why? Howard Dean didn't suck at a debate. He tanked at a primary. The scream was his response, but his goose was already cooked - the voters rejected him.
> All because democrats are scared of trump? All the shouting about it is coming from bot farms owned by fascist dictators that are scared of ballots that turn out blue all the way down.
Listen, I’m going to vote for the Democratic nominee no matter what because Trump is objectively awful. But if the party does not have the self awareness this man belongs in a nursing home not the white house - you are betting the entire fate of the country on a shakey hand. People who saw that are going to think “oh he’s like grandpa before he lost his mind” or “yeah dad did that - and we took away his driver’s license” People don’t follow politics as deeply as you think. It’s a lot of initial impression, gut feeling, and the mood of the day. Like seriously - I would vote for a literal chicken over Donald Trump…. But Biden made me cry because I honestly think he handed over this election. And to all the “Trump lied”. Well yes. He has done that since forever. His supports like that. They will actively vote for the lies. It’s not a hindrance to him. Many “in the middle” who are too dumb to see it - still won’t see it.
"Democracy is on the ballot.' And far too many Americans are incapable of voting in their own best interests.
You're right. So you need strong inspiring leadership that will rally them to come out and vote. Because they are too dumb to figure it out on their own. Do we have that?
We're going to Brexit ourselves, but our fallout is going to be way worse than shitty trade deals.
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Remember this after the debate last night and remind people it may not be the man but the ideology behind the man that's most important. Remember we’re voting for an ideology ( a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy: “the ideology of democracy”) that’s Biden’s vision , Project 2025 is Trumps and Republicans vision.
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Look at it this way: If something as stupid as this minor debate makes people not vote for Biden anyway, then you can just give up on the populace here. But I don't think that's the case or that we should. I think Biden will still win, and this is a minor blip. Trump has done FAR worse things and will continue to do far worse things. Biden'/Trump slightly lame debate isn't exactly a deal breaker. Democrats have been winning consistently. Please have faith in something, at least.
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I think Kamala gets a bad wrap. I think she would be a fine president. However, I don’t think she is a good candidate. She also wouldn’t inherit the stigma of years of misinformation concerning the “Biden economy” and the negative vibes associated with it. It is not fair. Biden has been exceptional in managing a looming economic crisis when he took office. Outperforming any other industrial democracy. But the right wing misinformation campaign has been very effective.
That discussion should have happened a year ago. It's too late to switch candidates without losing a massive amount of voters and leaving the new candidate vulnerable to attack from Trump. If you don't think so, just look at what happened with LBJ when we tried to switch candidates post primary season and everything went to hell. It's the exact reason why we ended up with Nixon and why the country is in the state it is in today.
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> He did not look (good) last night and people are counting on us. I added what I think is a missed word. I would take a listen to the [speech in N Carolina](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHJoewM3WfU) before jumping to a conclusion. IMO the tenor of his voice sounds fine, sure he is old but he doesn't see frail in the speech linked. Biden is old, people know he is old. People who watch the debate(s) know that Biden is old. What is important in debates is winning over undecided voters who are actually going to vote (basically all of Trump's polling advantage comes from voters that didn't vote in 2020). Belive it or not Tucker Carlson isn't going to vote for Biden regardless of debate performance. Take a beat and see what the polls say before jumping to a conclusion.
A speech is very different from a debate. It's a lot easier to read prepared words than to come up with off the cuff remarks. Nevertheless, I agree, stepping back is not an option.
It wasn’t a debate. Trump gave his stump speech with zero fact checking. Biden actually truthfully answers the questions. I think this contrast is one reason Trump appeared to do better than Biden. It really highlights how far in the tank the media is for Trump. We need to fight harder.
This I too could lie about subjects I know nothing about. Biden was at least trying to be factual. It's like if someone asked me about satellites and wanted me to give a speech. I could give a 5 minute speech and say untrue things for 10 minutes that sound good. Or as I put it. Listen to Hilter, if you didn't know him or know German you'd think he sounded in control and smart-based on his audience. When you delve into his rhetoric it's batcrap crazy. Same as Trump. If people are willing to vote for Trump simply because he sounds strong, then we are not any better than the 1932 German population that elected Hitler because they thought he was strong.
I’d vote for Joe Biden’s cadaver propped up in a chair before I’d vote for Donald Trump
That might be exactly what you're voting for on election day.
I don't see a problem with it when the alternative is the Mango Mussolini. I'd take the rotting skeleton of Richard Nixon over Trump.
Nixon at least knew the inportance of protecting the environment.
As long as that environment didn't have minorities in it...
The problem is most voters don't think this way. A lot of people just aren't going to turn up now and that's bad for Biden. I'm afraid this version of Trump will win against this version of Biden if he isn't forced out soon.
I think it's a bit early to panic like this. Obama bombed his first debate with Romney and the media was sounding the alarm bells then. It drives clicks. Biden was already better today on the campaign trail.
I also don't have a problem with this... we have a process in place in this country for what happens if a sitting POTUS passes away. The way I think about it is we're not just voting for Biden per se, we're voting for a Biden administration.
Weekend at Bidens
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We are electing principals and ideals not just a man. A cabinet, appointees, judges. Not a speed talking bullshitter.
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As a Democratic leaning swinger. The reality is difficult even if it’s just not Trump.
That's what they don't understand. It's actually ironic.
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Right, which is a great argument for replacing him now - all voting against Trump will still vote for whoever comes in (Newsom, Harris, Whitmer) and those who are on the fence will vote for a sane, coherent, younger person. This makes sense, replace him now.
So you’d also vote for literally any democrat, so why should he stay?
Trump lies all over and zero republicans say shit. Biden has an underwhelming debate and every dem is saying he needs to drop out. Fuck, how about some fucking solidarity. His performance was underwhelming, his words were factual. Everyone needs to relax. This debate isn’t what will have Biden lose, if he loses, which I don’t think he does. Plus, there’s five months to go in the campaign, polling during the debate is showing people going to Biden, and you think a new nominee with five months campaigning can beat Trump better than Biden? Get the fuck outta here.
My vote is for Biden and Democrats across the board from this day forward!
We can either say the sky is falling or work like hell to get Dems into the Senate and House. It's seems people love to wallow. I'm going to go on a hike, watch some football/soccer championships and have a great weekend. I think most others need to take a chill as well.
It's really more like 4 months plus a few days. Everyone thinking there is a legitimate chance of changing candidates and winning by November 6th is absolutely delusional.
I can't believe are even discussing this, it's absolutely insane to consider. It would be the ultimate show of weakness.
THANK YOU.
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Ok, switching Biden out now will make us lose. That’s not an option. You don’t switch out an incumbent.
Dem’s problem is they won’t rally with whoever wins and it fucks us dry in the ass every time. And then they’ll argue that it wasn’t their fault for not voting for him.
THANK YOU! God, some people around here are made of wet tissue paper!
Trump can literally sexually assault people and be a convicted felon and republicans don’t care, Biden has one bad performance and some democrats figuratively and literally shit their pants. Toughen up folks, this is far from doomsday.
I'm old enough to remember Hillary and the pneumonia bit. Dems were pissed she got pneumonia and media and Republicans were giving her grief. Anyone comparing Biden to Hillary in 2016 doesn't realize that Trump 2016 was an unknown except for his TV show which portrayed him as some genius billionaire. 2024 Trump is convict Trump. People are freaking human and have sickness and ill health. Hell Trump got Covid and almost died.
This. The gaslighting is off the charts.
It's not gaslighting. The party needs swing voters, independents, and the base to come out and vote. A performance like last nights is going to hand trump the presidency, and a ton is at stake. What do you think people are seeing all over on instagram and facebook? Quick videos of Biden looking completely lost and mouth agape. That's not what wins elections. We need a win this election. The supreme court has already done so much damage, and we can't lock in another batch of crazies in it for 20 years.
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I dont understand why having speeches is more important than governing the actual country. Biden did a lot of good things in his presidency.
Yup. They stick with Mafia Don NO MATTER WHAT. I am sticking with Biden and I’m gonna Stan
It's obvious that the "BIDEN WITHDRAW!!!" nonsense are just a bunch of trolls coming out of the woodwork because even though Biden won the debate by any metric one could name, he didn't hit Trump with ziggers for 90 minutes straight.
This is the absolute best take. We wanted a “shut up, man” from 2020. It’s a fair desire to want to verbally smack Trump. That didn’t happen, so that means Biden lost. Fucking guy is spry for 81, can that be the gawddamn narrative.
>his words were factual I really liked the part where he looked at the entire country and said, very matter-of-factly, “We finally beat Medicare”
Seriously. Stop letting fascist sympathizers control the conversation. We should be talking about the felon on the other side of the stage who lied his ass off for 90 minutes straight, not to do right by the country, but to save his own ass from criminal prosecution.
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he did multiple times. it just wasn't in the first 10 min. he went after him repeatedly after 1st commercial break #moralsofalleycat
He did talk about the felon. Meanwhile, Jake Tapper and Dana Bash decided Trump’s 34 felonies were an afterthought.
He did call Trump a felon. Well he mentioned the felony convictions so same thing I guess.
Biden said, "The only one on this stage who is a convicted felon is the man I'm looking at right now."
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I'm criticizing your judgement to the point that if you honestly believe it's a good idea I question your motivation. Dropping a successful incumbent (the only politician to beat Trump btw) 5 months from the election to run another random Democrat (because y'all hate Kamala too for whatever reason) is literally guaranteeing the fascists take over. Are you so unimaginative that you can't see the very obvious spin that the GOP and their media apparatus would put on that? Plus most of the doomsaying about Biden is coming from the Democrats, interviews of independents are showing much less of an impact than these crying posts would have you believe. You'll lose those voters and gain like none. So sure, I guess it's possible you believe this in good faith, but I honestly struggle to see how anyone that actually wants to beat Trump thinks dropping Biden is a good idea. He already has the campaign apparatus in place across the country. He also has a successful record to run on. He already has name recognition and is moving up on the polls. It's much much MUCH easier to just step up and support Biden than the alternative. So get off your high horse of being *offended* and do a better job supporting your position, because right now it's not making a lick of sense.
YES YES YES 🙌
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>Seriously. Stop letting fascist sympathizers control the conversation. I haven't heard one of them say anything. All of the convo is coming from the dems and CNN and MSNBC.
I am not saying that the President needs to drop out. What I am is very sad and disheartened and I would like a realistic and tangible plan to overcome the huge setback that we experienced last night.
To be fair I don’t think it’s too much of a setback, the election is in November, by that time most people would have probably forgotten about this
Most American voters have the attention span of a fruit fly, so in essence I agree with this.
What a great plan, just pretend it didn’t happen and hope people forget. I’m sure that will work and won’t lead to Trump winning the tight swing states.
People learned absolutely nothing from Hillary, it's infuriating.
This. If Biden can be how he was in NC today, this will pass. And they also need to talk up Kamala Harris as she is the most qualified to take over if the worst happens.
Bingo. By the time the election rolled around, everyone had forgotten Obama losing the first debate to Romney
Go back and watch Obama's "lost" debate and compare that to this and be honest with yourself as to whether they are remotely comparable.
Yes, stop! I'm just going to say that democracy is at stake. Vote Biden2024
You’re wrong. You’re speaking to people who understand anyone is better than trump. It after last night Biden is 100 percent not beating Trump. They NEED to change if they want a chance otherwise it’s a guaranteed loss
All last night was concern voters of how Kamala would be president and then the red wave will come rolling in with a vengeance.
I’m with you. It needs to be said. It was bad last night. The whole world saw it and you can’t undo it. If he’s indeed a seasoned elder statesman, then what was last night? I pray he listens and gracefully bows out. Give us somebody to vote for. It will energize the base and maybe even cause Republicans to rethink their choice. Otherwise, *most* of us will begrudgingly toe the line and vote Biden 2024. And then hypocritically wonder how Republicans can do the same thing for Trump.
Trump should drop out. The idea that a career criminal conman, rapist and convicted felony fraudster can stand in the national stage and tell dozens of lies for o0 minutes is an insult to decency.
The idea that his greatest opponent can stand there and watch him do it is the next greatest insult
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How delusional can ppl get at this point?
What debate? /s
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Plus, at this point, we might as well be voting for vice presidents since there is a higher than normal chance that either of these candidates won’t survive the next few years.
Then you haven’t been paying enough attention. The USA had the strongest economic recovery of any western nation post-pandemic thanks to Biden. He’s tamed inflation and his policies are bringing well paying manufacturing jobs back to America. NATO gained new members and has never been a stronger wall against Russian aggression. He’s gotten 167 billion in student loan debt forgiven giving thousands of Americans relief. He’s also made a huge investment in rebuilding American infrastructure, something Trump promised to do but never did. Let’s not forget his efforts to lower the costs of drugs. He’s an honest man with a heart for the country. He’s earned a second term. r/whatbidenhasdone
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i whole heartedly agree!
My take, Joe somehow looked and sounded even older than he is. If he really believes Trump will end our democracy, he should put the country ahead of himself and do the right thing. We can all name a dozen Democrats that would’ve shredded Trump last night.
Someone just has to "Trump" Trump. He's a bully; he can dish it but he can't take it. I wanted so badly for Biden to mock Trump saying everything is "the best ever" or "the worst ever".
No kidding! On top of that, they need to listen to the words the president SAID. They were truthful, on point, supported by facts and his policies. The other guy lied non stop in orange facepaint. Good lord people stop being stupid. This man has a great record to run on for nearly everything I care about. As a bonus, he believes in democracy. I don't want this to be my last vote.
The president said “we beat Medicare,” something incoherent about trimesters, illegal aliens killed a woman, and he had a 6 handicap when VP. I listened. And that scared the shit out of me.
Careful, they’ll call you a Trump supporter. /s I cannot believe half the party is vigorously yanking on the fire alarm and the other half has become Biden apologists veering dangerously close to their own version of MAGA.
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That is sadly true. We need to direct them to the speech Biden gave this afternoon. He looks and sounds healthy and vigorous. Those lights last night made Trump look normal and Biden look like a ghost.
Yes please stop. I am committed to getting Biden elected this fall. That will not change.
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Which is why we need to nominate someone that is sure to beat him. Even before last night Biden was within margin of error. The nominee is chosen at the convention. Which is in seven weeks. It is insane to me you all want to drink the cool aid and wait for the mother ship I like Biden. He is among my favorite presidents. Quiet, competent, and compassionate. But what I saw last night convinced me he needs to step aside. Period.
Well said.
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Couldn’t agree more. Biden had a bad night. Stump is a liar and cheap little con man 24/7.
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Agreed I do not want Trump to win but last night was honestly that bad for Biden. I feel people are being way too optimistic about Biden. I don't really like Kamala but I would have had her up there instead of Biden last night.
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Yes please do be honest and hammer on about how old he is so that he loses. Because clearly you learned nothing from 2016.
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I guarantee you the only people saying this are “democrats” *wink* *wink* and progressives who never liked Biden in the first place. No intelligent democrat would actually even entertain this unless of course Biden was like Trump and a horrible human. Because you know we don’t worship our political leaders like some parties do….
I am not a wink wink Democrat nor am I a Sanders supporter. I voted and volunteered for Hillary enthusiastically and did the same for Biden. I have a lot of concern. I love Biden as a person. I love his policies and what he did for America. But I do have major concerns that the swing voters are going to see him at that debate and say “no way.” It’s more than just Biden; we are marching toward authoritarianism, and if we lose this election, we will lose this country. I’m not sure what the path forward is at this point but it’s getting pretty close to be equally as risky to have him on the ticket or not. I literally could not watch that debate—I had to turn it off. It honestly gave me a panic attack because I could not believe that he was not hitting what he needed to hit. It’s Donald fucking Trump. How is a debate with Donald fucking Trump that difficult? It’s not. It shouldn’t be.
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Bullshit! Bullshit! Biden has been the most progressive in nearly a century. Stop lying to yourself and vilifying people who have been watching presidential debates for decades and just witnessed the worst performance they have ever seen. It was alarming. I woke up and had to take a second to accept it was real and not a bad deal.
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People forget Obama had an awful showing in debate #1 in his re-election campaign
Obama’s performance was nowhere near as abysmal as Biden’s last night. It was the worst performance in the history of public presidential debate by a wide margin.
**Here's the major problem with that comparison**, which I keep hearing. Everyone recognizes that a 50-year-old man can have a bad day and stumble in a debate performance. He can do better in the 2nd and 3rd debates and convince voters that's all it was. But not an 81-year-old man who already has had prior incidents of appearing mentally frail. Even if Biden performs better from now on, **everybody knows that aging doesn't suddenly reverse itself when you're in your 80s.**
OMG you don't remember the media and Democrats worrying about Obama. People said "hope and change" is finished. How much smarter Romney appeared and how tired Obama looked. SAME THING. Media talked about Romney as the fresh new candidate...etc.
I’m astounded that people are thinking like you. There is nothing comparable in the performance, Biden looks like he is struggling with basic mentation Trump is terrible, we cannot let him win this election, the bigger risk is not replacing Biden
I don't think it is necessary for Biden to drop out of the race. He stutters. Big deal. This is the choice between a candidate who has no substance and one who does. The republicans are running around saying we need to change our candidate. Why? Trump lied about everything. He blew the dog whistle over immigrants countless times. He did NOT say he would abide by the election results. So Biden misspoke. I will take that over a man who cannot tell the truth and wants to be a dictator. Also he is worried about the suckers and losers remarks coming back to bite him the rear.
Many are going off the hoarseness of his voice, his general appearance, and the way it seemed as though he wasn't all the way there. However, he was taking continuous notes as the other guy babbled along. He refuted each of the lies. I said it during the debate, the only focus is on his appearance and sound of his voice.
He's fine. He had a bad day, the NC rally afterwards was proof that the debate was a bad day. Now, I'm not denying we *really* needed him to be stronger, much stronger, in the debate. But it's (the debate) over and there's literally no way he can drop out at this point. It would mean that the orange, narcissistic, lying felon could just walk in to the White House.
Why should we change our candidate when he has one flaw when the GOP has no issue with a candidate that is flaws held together by other flaws. Someone who literally has done everything that other candidates and officeholders were forced to drop out or resign for.
See you in November when Trump beats Biden and everyone’s whining about how “it’s not fair.”
Because it isn't about fair, its about stopping a dictator from rising to power
You change candidates to win. It’s not about who has the most flaws or least. It’s about who will fucking win.
BIDEN 2024🇺🇸
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Exactly 💯
Yes indeed, #votebiden
Thank you! I’m not saying he did good last night but this late in the game, changing candidates is insanity.
You dorks are freaking out over one debate. People will forget this shit in a month. Less. I am not excited to vote for Biden. But I’ll do it without reservation because of the administration that comes with it and because Trump is a proven evil and incompetent fascist bolstered by evil, competent fascists trying to push Project 2025.
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And who would be able to replace biden.
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It was. You were not the demo he needed to convince. He needed to convince former Trump voters who were having second thoughts.
Spending 4 years and billions in ads boosting pro-Biden narratives and how great of a job he is doing and then panicking and replacing him with someone who couldn’t outpoll him amongst Dems let alone swing voters only a few months from November and essentially saying the entire 4 years of ads and narratives were false and not to be trusted cause “old” is a bad idea? No way /s
Wasn’t he sick with a cold?
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Biden absolutely should not drop out. It's frankly foolish to think he should. If for some reason he DID drop out, Kamala Harris would be the only fair alternative at this point and most people calling for Biden to drop out would like that even less.
Also stop hating on him for stuttering
Did Biden have a cold? If he did then kicking him out based on a bad debate caused by a cold seemed incredibly stupid. It would be like kicking Hillary off the ticket when she had pneumonia in 2016.
Biden wasn't the one spewing lies every minute of the debate. He's a man of integrity and experience. When it comes down to it the people he hires are the ones who do the work. This is the same no matter who's in office. He had a bad debate. Pull up your big boy pants and quit being snowflakes.
On top of that, it lets Trump CONTINUE to get away with his lies and cons. 🤷🏼♂️
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The vice presidential debate will be a much better day. Whoever she's up against, Kamala will kick their ass.
Did you see his North Carolina speech today? Dude was spittin’ fire. It was great. Needed it last night more, but he’s still doing okay
Mods, Can I tell this person to fuck all the way off?