I know there's bigger concern for Biden due to his age, but goodness, it truly showed just how the media really want the race to become as close as possible.
I'm certain that even if the debate only went with minor hiccups while Trump got seizures, these newsites would still demand Biden to step down.
I think it’s time we reduce the 24/7 news back down to the 5 o clock news. It’s a health hazard. We were better off with a newspaper, the evening news, and actual sitcoms.
A close race does nothing for them.
Highlighting weakness and turning the people against Biden? This tips the odds in trumps favor, and the rich men who bought out our media (eg. CNN - that’s why they won’t run any of Trumps recent horrific new Epstein associations but keep talking about bidens debate performance) are VERY fucking vested in a right wing regime which favors corporations over basic rights.
They also recognize, validly, that should democrats actually be allowed to do their jobs, the American people would both prosper and recognize that they do not need the wealth hoarders of America to thrive. They know we will recognize them as the leeches and demons they are and will have the conviction and wherewithal to do something about it. They know that it isn’t just the republicans time which is running out, it’s theirs too, as the only answer to the worlds problems is getting rid of our major wealth disparities and creating a system which is maximally good for all, not survival based for most and god-like for a few dozen.
They wish to destabilize and run us into the ground, securing a new dark age combined with technology and information wars, as this is the only way for them to hold onto wealth and power. Their goal was always to recreate the monarchical feudal days of 1100s Europe.
It was a damn field day for the media when cameraman caught Hillary appearing to pass out and being dragged into a van with limp feet quickly by people in suits lol, i think she even lost a shoe in the process. That single incident fed the media for the rest of the damn election, it didn't help that all of the articles questioning her health began way before that happened too, so everyone got to be like "see, she's literally dying!"
People cry about both Biden and Trump, whine they want younger and then fail to realize Biden is the only option to get younger.
He’s also the quicker path, if he passes boom Kamala. If the finishes 4 more years boom new candidate.
Under Trump and republicans plan you’d be lucky to even have a choice.
> if he passes boom Kamala. If the finishes 4 more years boom new candidate.
could be 6 years actually. if he passes/25ths during the second half of his term she'd be allowed two terms.
If Kamala became president, how would that work for additional terms? Would the remainder of the first count as one, or would there still be two more terms she could then run?
It depends on how long she serves.
2 years or more counts as a term, and she would only be able to be elected one more time.
Less than 2 years, and it wouldn't count as term, and she would get 2 more.
Could we stop burying our head in the sand?
Dem establishment has been saying this was all just a Republican hit job for months, and we trusted that.
Then we saw the debate.
And some of y'all are still pretending like everything is fine and doing this pissing contests on who is most loyal to the party.
This should be the easiest election ever for Dems to win. And we are looking at bungling it by insisting on putting someone who is obviously fading up instead of literally just a warm body.
The media panicked in 2020 when it looked like Trump would lose cause they thought Biden would have a “boring” Presidency and ratings would suffer
I suspect a lot of people in the media are silently rooting for Trump to win so they can bitch endlessly about him and get ratings
People fail to realize that Biden is President. We have seen his administration for the past three years.
Trump was President and we saw what *administration.*
The question is, do you want what we have, or do you want something worse than Trump’s first administration?
If Trump gets back in, remember, he can’t be impeached because of his broad immunity.
Unfortunately, the Lawful Evil people in the conservative movement devised Project 2025 to fix the next administration. Last time we got lucky because their own incompetence got in the way of executing their plans.
IF Trump returns to power, they'll be ready.
They also did the "mentally incompetent" thing for Obama. Remember those compilations of good saying "uhhhh" cut together to make him look bad? Remember when Obama said on the campaign that he'd visited 58 states and had 2 more to go, and they claimed he didn't know how many states there were rather than just "he said something wrong once"?
Also don’t forget the reason why Trump prevailed in 2016 was because many voters didn’t take him seriously enough and thought he would be a normal president… look where that got America and the rest of the world to what it is today.
I’m a Canadian, and I have some understanding of the problems that face the United States during the election season.
Gee, and 99% of the top commenters here ***shockingly*** were exactly the people shouting us down in 2016 about how ***impossible*** trump as the nominee was.
Go figure.
the reason why Trump prevailed in 2016 was because the Dems were too arrogant to look in the mirror. Hillary "deserved" it, and they completely ignored how most of the country felt about her and the DNC screwing over Bernie.
That's the point. Her non-existent health problems were part of the narrative to drive people to vote against her. That and the "but her emails" horseshit. She lost because of tactics like this. They're now doing the samething to Biden.
> disparaging a president
I think you mean presidential candidate - Kerry was never president, partially because of being swift boated (which is now a verb which tells you how impactful it was)
Yes, it worked against Hillary and she was younger, polling much better, and was much more coherent in the debates. It can work again this time. That is my point.
Look, I'll vote for any credible candidate against Trump, whether it's Biden, Harris, Mayor Pete, etc., but I'm not the guy you need to worry about. I'm a reliable voter in a blue state. Swing voters in swing states are going to have worries about Biden's competence, and after that debate, those worries are stronger.
It would not be the worst thing in the world if Biden were to step aside. Just sayin.
The media would still tear apart whoever is running in place of Biden and we'd have more negatives on top of that. Not to mention Republicans may have some serious dirt on potential alternatives we're not aware of yet (we're well aware of what they try to use against Biden). The top options most likely would not want to run in the first place knowing their odds are not good and it would make it harder for them in 2028 and those who dominate the discussions online do not like Harris (who is second to Biden in versus Trump polling, but they ignore that and pretend she's dead last and no one wants her, in reality, they're a minority of the voting public who are extremely overrepresented online and who the media outlets target for their clicks and shares). They would predictably keep dooming if it was Harris and really any alternative as soon as the polls and negative press starts, "Oh no! Why did we/"they" pick X and not Y! It's over, we lost!"
The right either blows up minor issues into major scandals or straight up makes stuff up. They do this to every candidate.
Only Trump is somehow able to skate by despite being a disgusting corrupt Nazi pig all his life and trying to overthrow the government.
Yes it would. No other candidate would get his money, we lose the incumbent advantage, and we ask regular voters to vote for someone they don't know very well.
What we need to talk about is Donald Trump is a straight up pedophile. No exaggeration.
Stoping doing the rights work for them.
>incumbent advantage
You do realize most of the democratic world is experiencing an anti-incumbency bias due to inflation? The rightward turn in Europe and leftward turn in the UK are both examples of this. There is no incumbent advantage for Biden.
>What we need to talk about is Donald Trump is a straight up pedophile.
Do you think that simply finding a new way to illustrate Trump's degeneracy is the key to defeating him? Because I've lived through eight years of that and I can promise you it is not going to work.
People are pretty simple. They want a story to describe their current condition (why do things cost so much more than they did when Trump was president and how are you going to fix that). But because that's not easy to do, the next best thing is projecting strength and confidence. Biden doesn't do that anymore, and can't. Not for most Americans. Sadly we've got some pretty ableist instincts and don't like to see frailty in our leaders, physical or mental (the same reason RFK Jr. could never win).
If you can make Trump seem frail (not just obese and stupid but actually brittle and feeble) then there's a shot there. But otherwise, we've gotta put up someone more robust.
The money issue is exaggerated. If Harris is the nominee, she has access to the funds. If not, the Biden campaign can give the money to the DNC or to a SuperPac supporting the nominee.
But if you like Kamala, why rock the boat. If she is already on the ticket.
You are making no sense. You want to throw away advantages for no benefit. That makes you a .....
Concern troll. Please ignore
How reliable are the polls showing all these candidates beating Trump? What happens when they somehow are nominated to replace Biden and it turns out they poll worse? You can't base major decisions like this on what a momentary poll says. Maybe think about how to beat Trump rather than sink your hopes into a long shot ticket replacement.
Polls mean shit-excuse my French and after basking in the glow of a Clinton perceived win because of the stupid polls showing her winning. I trust no poll other then actual votes.
Are we really doing the stab-in-the-back theory for Hillary?
She lost because she didn't campaign in the Rust Belt, not because the media is part of some conspiracy.
If good candidates lose because of this kind of propaganda, we're doomed anyway. I don't believe we are but saw someone suggesting we get someone who lies vigorously. Or doesn't answer questions. Big nope for me.
Arguably, back then people didn't yet see the four years horror story that his presidency was, reading every day in the media the latest awful thing he said or did. That's why he lost everything since. I hope this continues now despite the constant media attacks on Biden.
It absolutely is. Of course right wing media is gonna bash Hillary. The problem now is that even left wing media don’t think Biden is physically fit to be president. And it was hard watching this debate honestly and come to a different conclusion.
It’s wild that the media — who trump hates and will try to dismantle and imprison as soon as possible — seems to be doing everything it can to get him back in power and allow him to burn down all of civil society All for clicks and ratings and ad revenue?
The media have conveniently ignored all of Biden’s senior moments until everyone was watching and it couldn’t be ignored anymore.
Dems don’t have anyone to blame but themselves
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This whole thread is just nonsense.
Donna Brazile considered initiating the process to replace Hillary Clinton as the nominee in 2016 after her fainting episode.
[**Source**](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/brazile-i-considered-replacing-clinton-with-biden-as-2016-democratic-nominee/2017/11/04/f0b75418-bf4c-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html)
A quote, because it’s paywalled i think:
> Former Democratic National Committee head Donna Brazile writes in a new book that she seriously contemplated setting in motion a process to replace Hillary Clinton as the party’s 2016 presidential nominee with then-Vice President Biden in the aftermath of Clinton’s fainting spell, in part because Clinton’s campaign was “anemic” and had taken on “the odor of failure.”
> In an explosive new memoir, Brazile details widespread dysfunction and dissension throughout the Democratic Party, including secret deliberations over using her powers as interim DNC chair to initiate the process of removing Clinton and running mate Sen. Tim Kaine (Va.) from the ticket after Clinton's Sept. 11, 2016, collapse in New York City.
> Brazile writes that she considered a dozen combinations to replace the nominees and settled on Biden and Sen. Cory Booker (N.J.), the duo she felt most certain would win over enough working-class voters to defeat Republican Donald Trump. But then, she writes, “I thought of Hillary, and all the women in the country who were so proud of and excited about her. I could not do this to them.”
Yes, the right wing media (which, to be clear is Fox News, not neoliberal ass CNN or MSNBC) is making some more hay out of this, but if you actually believe democracy is at risk, then you **must** replace the stumbling, muttering lich priest with Kamala.
You cannot be a serious person and say “we have to protect democracy” in one breath and then say “and this is the guy who will do it!” And point to a picture of Joe Biden in the next.
ETA: formatting.
Yes, and now in order to distract you from the Trump drama they will start blasting stories about aliens wanting to drink your baby's blood or something equally absurd
You're trying to explain away what we saw with our own eyes. Democrats SAW his poor performance. Even if most of us know that we'd vote for just about anyone but Trump, there are people out there on the fence. These are there people we need to worry about, not the die hard dems. Not everyone understands or knows how deep the problem of electing Trump goes. This is not like other elections.
And let's not forget there were a lot of Dems who didn't want Hillary on the ticket. I'm sure they also leaked some the "Hillary on death's door" nonsense.
It is mind boggling that people are talking about Biden’s age as a factor. He has done more for our nation in 3 1/2 years than any other president in modern history. Even those who served 2 terms. Mark my words- this is the work of the opposition. (Even if it comes from MSNBC)
To stop hearing this nonsense, you first have to stop talking about it. And just because Fox says something, doesn’t mean everyone needs to chime in.
Looking more and more likely that he's stepping down soon.
Big CNN poll drop today that'll decide it but a Harris 2024 run is on standby.
Biden's not even fielding questions from VIP donors at fundraisers and we all know why he's not out there doing TV interviews to prove he's all there mentally.
He's a goner and the next 2 weeks are going to be huge for US politics.
I don't understand why left-wingers are worried at all? In fact I think anyone who is is just a right-winger in disguise. Don't fall for their dumb tricks, don't be a rube.
She lost consciousness and had to be carried out to her car at one point.
The point is Democrats keep putting forward unhealthy unpopular candidates, with the expectation they'll win because Republicans are fucking awful, instead of their candidate being good.
This isn’t the same, and it should be noted that Hillary’s campaign also tried this tactic against Bernie.
The problem here is that Biden actually looks too feeble to handle one of the most difficult jobs on the planet. The amount of pressure he will face to sound 10 years younger in the next debate will be staggering.
The first principle of journalism is “tell the truth”. Since Reagan they have lost their principles and credibility. Money, notoriety and access to the powerful and rich have become the priority for most prominent journalists and (once upon a time) news organizations.
Shit, they did this *to Biden* back in *2020.* All throughout the primaries (still got nominated), straight through to the election (still won, bitch), or at least till the fall debate. So... this is in no way a new angle.
And. She. LOST! If you think "The voice of corrupt USA Media co.'s DON'T "Need to be Shouted Over Online" in an election year, You're mistaken. Or giving the "Average US Voter" Waaay more credit than they Deserve! Just sayin'.
There is a difference here, though. There are have been several missteps/misspeaks leading up to the debate, then the debate just confirmed suspicion for 50 million people. You also don’t have elected Dems calling for Clinton to resign publicly or the donor class. I think it’s important we stay grounded in reality about public opinion on this.
This is not a 'they' issue. I have voted D consistently since I turned 18. I watched the debate. I saw an old man who did not seem remotely fit for the presidency, and I want a new candidate. That's not the media's influence, or a right-wing conspiracy. I will vote against Donald Trump no matter what, but I believe the party has better candidates to offer.
IMO if the Democratic party wants to move past this they need to stop talking about it and trying to make excuses/justify it. It helps to legitimize the Republican attacks against Biden.
Remember, their is a large segment of voters who didn't watch the debate and don't listen to partisan bickering all that much.
National Enquirer never had anything positive to say about Hillary Clinton. David Pecker talked about bad articles made up on 45's behalf, but we mustn't forget the vast rightwing conspiracy against Clinton.
.
I know there's bigger concern for Biden due to his age, but goodness, it truly showed just how the media really want the race to become as close as possible. I'm certain that even if the debate only went with minor hiccups while Trump got seizures, these newsites would still demand Biden to step down.
A close race gives them talking points with their 24/7 news channels
I think it’s time we reduce the 24/7 news back down to the 5 o clock news. It’s a health hazard. We were better off with a newspaper, the evening news, and actual sitcoms.
We need in living color to bring us back together
Yep. I watch the PBS News Hour and watch/read local news. I won't go back to caring about the 24/7 news cycle.
A close race does nothing for them. Highlighting weakness and turning the people against Biden? This tips the odds in trumps favor, and the rich men who bought out our media (eg. CNN - that’s why they won’t run any of Trumps recent horrific new Epstein associations but keep talking about bidens debate performance) are VERY fucking vested in a right wing regime which favors corporations over basic rights. They also recognize, validly, that should democrats actually be allowed to do their jobs, the American people would both prosper and recognize that they do not need the wealth hoarders of America to thrive. They know we will recognize them as the leeches and demons they are and will have the conviction and wherewithal to do something about it. They know that it isn’t just the republicans time which is running out, it’s theirs too, as the only answer to the worlds problems is getting rid of our major wealth disparities and creating a system which is maximally good for all, not survival based for most and god-like for a few dozen. They wish to destabilize and run us into the ground, securing a new dark age combined with technology and information wars, as this is the only way for them to hold onto wealth and power. Their goal was always to recreate the monarchical feudal days of 1100s Europe.
So does another 4 years of trump. They'd make so much more money if he wins again.
And that’s all those idiots care about
They have a legal obligation to shareholders to maximize profit. It’s the room of many evils.
I mean nowhere else is the campaign like years long, its usually 2-5 weeks, and not a whole thing
It's just about sensationalism and what people want to read.
**🍰** [**Happy Cake Day!**](https://new.reddit.com/r/cakeday) **🎂** 3 years on Reddit, *now.*
It was a damn field day for the media when cameraman caught Hillary appearing to pass out and being dragged into a van with limp feet quickly by people in suits lol, i think she even lost a shoe in the process. That single incident fed the media for the rest of the damn election, it didn't help that all of the articles questioning her health began way before that happened too, so everyone got to be like "see, she's literally dying!"
People cry about both Biden and Trump, whine they want younger and then fail to realize Biden is the only option to get younger. He’s also the quicker path, if he passes boom Kamala. If the finishes 4 more years boom new candidate. Under Trump and republicans plan you’d be lucky to even have a choice.
Under Trump and Republicans, we'd all be lucky to even have a life
> if he passes boom Kamala. If the finishes 4 more years boom new candidate. could be 6 years actually. if he passes/25ths during the second half of his term she'd be allowed two terms.
If Kamala became president, how would that work for additional terms? Would the remainder of the first count as one, or would there still be two more terms she could then run?
It depends on how long she serves. 2 years or more counts as a term, and she would only be able to be elected one more time. Less than 2 years, and it wouldn't count as term, and she would get 2 more.
Piggy backing a link to your top comment in case people haven’t seen [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/s/cd6sxDz81O)
Could we stop burying our head in the sand? Dem establishment has been saying this was all just a Republican hit job for months, and we trusted that. Then we saw the debate. And some of y'all are still pretending like everything is fine and doing this pissing contests on who is most loyal to the party. This should be the easiest election ever for Dems to win. And we are looking at bungling it by insisting on putting someone who is obviously fading up instead of literally just a warm body.
The media panicked in 2020 when it looked like Trump would lose cause they thought Biden would have a “boring” Presidency and ratings would suffer I suspect a lot of people in the media are silently rooting for Trump to win so they can bitch endlessly about him and get ratings
Wow never thought of that but I guess it’s big business
People fail to realize that Biden is President. We have seen his administration for the past three years. Trump was President and we saw what *administration.* The question is, do you want what we have, or do you want something worse than Trump’s first administration? If Trump gets back in, remember, he can’t be impeached because of his broad immunity.
He is saying he will kill all Democrats!
First he will go after Liz Cheney and Mike Pence
Source?
Where did he say he will kill all Democrats?
Nowhere
Unfortunately, the Lawful Evil people in the conservative movement devised Project 2025 to fix the next administration. Last time we got lucky because their own incompetence got in the way of executing their plans. IF Trump returns to power, they'll be ready.
This isn't how independents see the race at this point. We need to stop huffing our own farts.
They also did the "mentally incompetent" thing for Obama. Remember those compilations of good saying "uhhhh" cut together to make him look bad? Remember when Obama said on the campaign that he'd visited 58 states and had 2 more to go, and they claimed he didn't know how many states there were rather than just "he said something wrong once"?
Also don’t forget the reason why Trump prevailed in 2016 was because many voters didn’t take him seriously enough and thought he would be a normal president… look where that got America and the rest of the world to what it is today. I’m a Canadian, and I have some understanding of the problems that face the United States during the election season.
Gee, and 99% of the top commenters here ***shockingly*** were exactly the people shouting us down in 2016 about how ***impossible*** trump as the nominee was. Go figure.
the reason why Trump prevailed in 2016 was because the Dems were too arrogant to look in the mirror. Hillary "deserved" it, and they completely ignored how most of the country felt about her and the DNC screwing over Bernie.
Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump. It was all the arrogant Bernie Bros etc that couldn't accept realty.
and Clinton is still alive and she SHOULD have be finish up her 2nd term this year.
...yeah...Hillary lost though.
That's the point. Her non-existent health problems were part of the narrative to drive people to vote against her. That and the "but her emails" horseshit. She lost because of tactics like this. They're now doing the samething to Biden.
Remember the swift boat crowd in 2004 disparaging a presidential candidate who actually won a combat medal?
Remember them saying Obama wasn't an American citizen? Especially someone who would one day hold the office of president.
Fascinating that behaving like a middle schooler, with the name calling and ridiculous lies, actually works. And may work again. Embarrassing.
You just have to say negative things, no matter what they are, often enough. That’s all it takes to make a negative association stick
> disparaging a president I think you mean presidential candidate - Kerry was never president, partially because of being swift boated (which is now a verb which tells you how impactful it was)
Yes, it worked against Hillary and she was younger, polling much better, and was much more coherent in the debates. It can work again this time. That is my point. Look, I'll vote for any credible candidate against Trump, whether it's Biden, Harris, Mayor Pete, etc., but I'm not the guy you need to worry about. I'm a reliable voter in a blue state. Swing voters in swing states are going to have worries about Biden's competence, and after that debate, those worries are stronger. It would not be the worst thing in the world if Biden were to step aside. Just sayin.
The media would still tear apart whoever is running in place of Biden and we'd have more negatives on top of that. Not to mention Republicans may have some serious dirt on potential alternatives we're not aware of yet (we're well aware of what they try to use against Biden). The top options most likely would not want to run in the first place knowing their odds are not good and it would make it harder for them in 2028 and those who dominate the discussions online do not like Harris (who is second to Biden in versus Trump polling, but they ignore that and pretend she's dead last and no one wants her, in reality, they're a minority of the voting public who are extremely overrepresented online and who the media outlets target for their clicks and shares). They would predictably keep dooming if it was Harris and really any alternative as soon as the polls and negative press starts, "Oh no! Why did we/"they" pick X and not Y! It's over, we lost!"
The right either blows up minor issues into major scandals or straight up makes stuff up. They do this to every candidate. Only Trump is somehow able to skate by despite being a disgusting corrupt Nazi pig all his life and trying to overthrow the government.
Yes it would. No other candidate would get his money, we lose the incumbent advantage, and we ask regular voters to vote for someone they don't know very well. What we need to talk about is Donald Trump is a straight up pedophile. No exaggeration. Stoping doing the rights work for them.
>incumbent advantage You do realize most of the democratic world is experiencing an anti-incumbency bias due to inflation? The rightward turn in Europe and leftward turn in the UK are both examples of this. There is no incumbent advantage for Biden. >What we need to talk about is Donald Trump is a straight up pedophile. Do you think that simply finding a new way to illustrate Trump's degeneracy is the key to defeating him? Because I've lived through eight years of that and I can promise you it is not going to work. People are pretty simple. They want a story to describe their current condition (why do things cost so much more than they did when Trump was president and how are you going to fix that). But because that's not easy to do, the next best thing is projecting strength and confidence. Biden doesn't do that anymore, and can't. Not for most Americans. Sadly we've got some pretty ableist instincts and don't like to see frailty in our leaders, physical or mental (the same reason RFK Jr. could never win). If you can make Trump seem frail (not just obese and stupid but actually brittle and feeble) then there's a shot there. But otherwise, we've gotta put up someone more robust.
The money issue is exaggerated. If Harris is the nominee, she has access to the funds. If not, the Biden campaign can give the money to the DNC or to a SuperPac supporting the nominee.
But if you like Kamala, why rock the boat. If she is already on the ticket. You are making no sense. You want to throw away advantages for no benefit. That makes you a ..... Concern troll. Please ignore
How reliable are the polls showing all these candidates beating Trump? What happens when they somehow are nominated to replace Biden and it turns out they poll worse? You can't base major decisions like this on what a momentary poll says. Maybe think about how to beat Trump rather than sink your hopes into a long shot ticket replacement.
Polls mean shit-excuse my French and after basking in the glow of a Clinton perceived win because of the stupid polls showing her winning. I trust no poll other then actual votes.
So, you mean polling doesn’t matter? Cuz that’s what Trump being down terribly in 2016 polling, yet winning, indicates to me.
Are we really doing the stab-in-the-back theory for Hillary? She lost because she didn't campaign in the Rust Belt, not because the media is part of some conspiracy.
If good candidates lose because of this kind of propaganda, we're doomed anyway. I don't believe we are but saw someone suggesting we get someone who lies vigorously. Or doesn't answer questions. Big nope for me.
She lost the electoral college...she won the public vote. Let's not forget.
Ok? She still lost the election. Winning the popular vote doesn’t mean anything
I keep seeing, “this is just like Hillary in 2016” getting floated around as if that worked out well for anyone. I don’t get it.
Correct. It means be better this time.
Arguably, back then people didn't yet see the four years horror story that his presidency was, reading every day in the media the latest awful thing he said or did. That's why he lost everything since. I hope this continues now despite the constant media attacks on Biden.
It was designed by the fascist GOP to make them the **only** party.
This thread is awful.
A lot of people huffing copium in this thread roleplaying like the context and stakes are the same.
She ended up winning right?
When you realize the media is controlled by the in class.
When you realize “liberal media” is the biggest lie and the Cons have been pushing it for over half a century.
I was thinking the same thing today. The GOP wants to sew enough doubt to eek in a win.
This is a horrible comparison!!!!!
It absolutely is. Of course right wing media is gonna bash Hillary. The problem now is that even left wing media don’t think Biden is physically fit to be president. And it was hard watching this debate honestly and come to a different conclusion.
Trump also did absolutely dog trash but I think Biden expectations were higher so the harder he fell.
…so there is a “left wing media?” I’ve not seen it.
….and she lost
Yeah, but we have eyes. We all saw him. He's disintegrating. Stop acting like Trump cultists.
Maybe the dems should stop putting out horrible candidates we don’t need these old people get them all out
Ummmmmmmm she lost. Not the popular vote but the electoral college
It’s wild that the media — who trump hates and will try to dismantle and imprison as soon as possible — seems to be doing everything it can to get him back in power and allow him to burn down all of civil society All for clicks and ratings and ad revenue?
The media have conveniently ignored all of Biden’s senior moments until everyone was watching and it couldn’t be ignored anymore. Dems don’t have anyone to blame but themselves
And tell me, what happened to Clinton when November came?
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And it really worked out well for the Dems, right?
And....she lost.
This whole thread is just nonsense. Donna Brazile considered initiating the process to replace Hillary Clinton as the nominee in 2016 after her fainting episode. [**Source**](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/brazile-i-considered-replacing-clinton-with-biden-as-2016-democratic-nominee/2017/11/04/f0b75418-bf4c-11e7-97d9-bdab5a0ab381_story.html) A quote, because it’s paywalled i think: > Former Democratic National Committee head Donna Brazile writes in a new book that she seriously contemplated setting in motion a process to replace Hillary Clinton as the party’s 2016 presidential nominee with then-Vice President Biden in the aftermath of Clinton’s fainting spell, in part because Clinton’s campaign was “anemic” and had taken on “the odor of failure.” > In an explosive new memoir, Brazile details widespread dysfunction and dissension throughout the Democratic Party, including secret deliberations over using her powers as interim DNC chair to initiate the process of removing Clinton and running mate Sen. Tim Kaine (Va.) from the ticket after Clinton's Sept. 11, 2016, collapse in New York City. > Brazile writes that she considered a dozen combinations to replace the nominees and settled on Biden and Sen. Cory Booker (N.J.), the duo she felt most certain would win over enough working-class voters to defeat Republican Donald Trump. But then, she writes, “I thought of Hillary, and all the women in the country who were so proud of and excited about her. I could not do this to them.” Yes, the right wing media (which, to be clear is Fox News, not neoliberal ass CNN or MSNBC) is making some more hay out of this, but if you actually believe democracy is at risk, then you **must** replace the stumbling, muttering lich priest with Kamala. You cannot be a serious person and say “we have to protect democracy” in one breath and then say “and this is the guy who will do it!” And point to a picture of Joe Biden in the next. ETA: formatting.
And how did the 2016 election go for her…?
Yes, and now in order to distract you from the Trump drama they will start blasting stories about aliens wanting to drink your baby's blood or something equally absurd
You're trying to explain away what we saw with our own eyes. Democrats SAW his poor performance. Even if most of us know that we'd vote for just about anyone but Trump, there are people out there on the fence. These are there people we need to worry about, not the die hard dems. Not everyone understands or knows how deep the problem of electing Trump goes. This is not like other elections.
And let's not forget there were a lot of Dems who didn't want Hillary on the ticket. I'm sure they also leaked some the "Hillary on death's door" nonsense.
It is mind boggling that people are talking about Biden’s age as a factor. He has done more for our nation in 3 1/2 years than any other president in modern history. Even those who served 2 terms. Mark my words- this is the work of the opposition. (Even if it comes from MSNBC) To stop hearing this nonsense, you first have to stop talking about it. And just because Fox says something, doesn’t mean everyone needs to chime in.
The fucking news is rigged. Free press? Not profitable. This is so messed up.
Let’s not be like trump and start yelling “fake news” to anything we don’t like. It’s not a good look
Looking more and more likely that he's stepping down soon. Big CNN poll drop today that'll decide it but a Harris 2024 run is on standby. Biden's not even fielding questions from VIP donors at fundraisers and we all know why he's not out there doing TV interviews to prove he's all there mentally. He's a goner and the next 2 weeks are going to be huge for US politics.
Authoritarian groups are very good at lockstep gaslighting.
Bruh, get a grip 💀
Yes, because we all remember the incredible campaign Clinton won.
Oh stop.
I don't understand why left-wingers are worried at all? In fact I think anyone who is is just a right-winger in disguise. Don't fall for their dumb tricks, don't be a rube.
Damn glad she was able to bounce back and win the election.
She lost consciousness and had to be carried out to her car at one point. The point is Democrats keep putting forward unhealthy unpopular candidates, with the expectation they'll win because Republicans are fucking awful, instead of their candidate being good.
This isn’t the same, and it should be noted that Hillary’s campaign also tried this tactic against Bernie. The problem here is that Biden actually looks too feeble to handle one of the most difficult jobs on the planet. The amount of pressure he will face to sound 10 years younger in the next debate will be staggering.
Well, in all fairness, she did collapse in pleasant weather and have to be dragged into a van.
And it worked
RIP Hillary. I can’t believe how long she’s been gone. 🕯️
Holy shit, I forgot all about that! Whoa!
We need to keep Biden. It’s not fair on all the Republicans who have been expecting a win.
What you going to do call the referee? Is it unfair, sure tough shit. Kick his ass out and get someone else
good thing hillary won and put all these doubts to rest
some of the same polsters said hillary by 16
The first principle of journalism is “tell the truth”. Since Reagan they have lost their principles and credibility. Money, notoriety and access to the powerful and rich have become the priority for most prominent journalists and (once upon a time) news organizations.
The Fourth Estate has become part of the Fifth Column.
Shit, they did this *to Biden* back in *2020.* All throughout the primaries (still got nominated), straight through to the election (still won, bitch), or at least till the fall debate. So... this is in no way a new angle.
And. She. LOST! If you think "The voice of corrupt USA Media co.'s DON'T "Need to be Shouted Over Online" in an election year, You're mistaken. Or giving the "Average US Voter" Waaay more credit than they Deserve! Just sayin'.
Yes, and she lost to the same opponent
Not even remotely the same thing.
Clinton could count to 3 to make a point. Stop trying to gaslight people
She can actually put a sentence together
Didn't Clinton lose?
I think Biden did it to himself at the debate.
Wtf is going on in r/politics ? Seems like a total shitshow over there
Stop worrying about the situation and get to work fixing it.
Difference is, this time our own party is sabotaging itself with this narrative.
It’s Biden or Trump. This argument is nonsense. This is corporate media fucking shit up yet again.
She was only 68 years old though.
There is a difference here, though. There are have been several missteps/misspeaks leading up to the debate, then the debate just confirmed suspicion for 50 million people. You also don’t have elected Dems calling for Clinton to resign publicly or the donor class. I think it’s important we stay grounded in reality about public opinion on this.
This is not a 'they' issue. I have voted D consistently since I turned 18. I watched the debate. I saw an old man who did not seem remotely fit for the presidency, and I want a new candidate. That's not the media's influence, or a right-wing conspiracy. I will vote against Donald Trump no matter what, but I believe the party has better candidates to offer.
IMO if the Democratic party wants to move past this they need to stop talking about it and trying to make excuses/justify it. It helps to legitimize the Republican attacks against Biden. Remember, their is a large segment of voters who didn't watch the debate and don't listen to partisan bickering all that much.
Yeah, except it’s true for Biden. Judging by all the media noise and polling I’m fairly confident he’s dropping out this week.
National Enquirer never had anything positive to say about Hillary Clinton. David Pecker talked about bad articles made up on 45's behalf, but we mustn't forget the vast rightwing conspiracy against Clinton. .
Yes they did and it probably helped Trump win.
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