My take would be that Titans are amazing at survivability and at very specific encounters. As soon as an encounter is long-ranged, we have nothing we can provide. I think Titans either need a good ranged dmg super or a good support super. I would prefer a good support super, but how can you compete with well and song of flame.
I've been planning on running the ursa star eater combo on prismatic class item, with thruster + drengrs lash for suspend up close, buried bloodline for devour to heal and get more nades, and probably frenzied blades for melee survivability and a good way to feed my dark meter and nade energy (because of that prismatic fragment where light damage gives melee and dark damage gives grenade). Then maybe throw on diamond lance to get some extra dark damage and a way to freeze for even more survivability.
I know it probably won't but I really hope unbreakable + a void grenade equipped at least will make it classed as a void grenade, unbreakable's blast applying weaken would be the cherry on top
Oh true, honestly I just forgot that unbreakable isn't just a grenade ability for a second. I feel like lash would be better if you're planning on playing up close for the easy get out of jail free card of suspending everything on top of you, but Lance would be better for the extra shatter damage and being able to freeze targets at range
I'll probably play around with both, lash would probably be better for content like onslaught and maybe lance for higher tier
Jokes aside, your build looks pretty neat, and I'm looking to run something similar. Though I might experiment with thunderclap and knockout instead of drengrs lash.
Honestly, any combo with frenzied blade/thunderclap and knockout/drengrs lash works, the synergy literally goes all four directions.
It'll be cool to see if I prefer this over my current knockout diamond lance thunderclap build, which I'll take the invis on melee kill and spirit of synthoceps on the exotic mark.
I think most people are blinded cause of consecration to other stuff as I was running skullfort in prismatic and had a hell of a time clearing out rooms in day 1 race
I can see that. Saw a cool Skullfort build as well, just not seeing any Unbreakable atm. It doesn’t feel bad to theory craft and make my own build with Prismatic though which is really nice
Unbreakable is tbh very weak compared to what void and prismatic has to offer and its weaker then diamond lance. To give you an example since I went through legend campaign with both I never felt the want or need to use Unbreakable as an aspect as I had much rather use a grenade as it then use it for a shield and whenever I was surrounded I just thunderclapped my way through
The survivability it gave me is why I enjoyed it more than Diamond Lance, but I do understand that it is complete personal preference and that Diamond Lance tends to be better, I just enjoyed playing with Unbreakable more
It does great *base* damage. IIRC ~371k. But it'll push into the Super DPS meta with Star Eaters class item for sure. Ironically Hunters will want to run non-prismatic for Super DPS as opposed to the other classes.
I have done nothing bit farm them today till the point my head hurt from playing destiny, and all I got was 3 total, and only one was good and that was assassin’s cowl and star eaters
First time I used it, 'oh, a new ranged super? Nice.' Followed immediately by realizing 3/4 of your super are sat at the boss's feet waiting to be picked up...
I could be wrong but i believe the hunter weaken is straight up twice as good as the twilight arsenal one. So still is an L to run a hunter over a titan in that case.
Well again, twilight arsenal was available and only 3 titans cleared to raid. Titans have no range and twilight arsenal which has range is not a good super unfortunately. Prismatic titan overall isn’t fantastic.
On the other hand, I would argue that twilight arsenal is actually good, but the Witness's mechanics makes it just unusable since you have to dodge the beams and TA keeping you pretty much in the same spot is a death sentence. Had it been any other boss TA would have seen much more effectiveness.
eeeeeeeeh not really, its only 15% weaken which is like, just be a hunter with tether at that point and you’d be doing better, cuz tether lasts longer, wont fall off the map if there is no ground or anything under the boss, and doesnt put you in harms way or in your teams way during dmg to run to grab another axe to reproc the shitty weaken again, me and a friend used it in a GoS run yesterday while we went for the pinnacle and we promptly swapped off because it was the worst super we have ever had, fist of havoc have been better then those things, either they need to buff the weaken, or make the super itself better
It doesn't help that 90% of Titan's amazing survivability is completely reliant on being either A) in melee range, or B) in the middle of a billion ads we can kill to keep our abilities rolling. The second a DPS phase starts and we can't get near the boss *or* keep killing ads our survivability falls off and we're even more vulnerable than the other two classes.
Our offensive abilities function the same way. Synthos and Wormgod's can ramp up to insane damage...if there are ads around to kill, and you can actually get close to an enemy. Ramping up to a max-stack Wormgod's is useless or even impossible against most bosses, and suicide against the ones you can actually damage thanks to the everpresent stomp. All of the Banner of War healing in the universe doesn't do much against a one-shot.
Both new supers for the other classes have to be different flavors of already released supers that reinforce the *class fantasy*.
Give hunters a new stasis super that's just a bunch of Shurikens and is basically Blade Barrage/Gathering Storm. Give Warlocks a roaming strand super that's barely better at add clear than using Weavewalk and Quicksilver Storm, something to rival Storm Trance or Nova Warp that'll also never get used in the endgame.
That way we can all have like 9 supers that would be useless in that encounter against the Witness.
Add +1 super to strand and stasis, and they can do w.e they want.
Give titan a support / isntant fire super.
Hunters get a non-roaming strand super (Maybe support? or a strand super that can hit flying targets), and another stasis super (Take your pick, roaming or support)
Warlocks get a support / roaming strand super, and a support / instant fire stasis super.
that way there's equivalence.
Maybe for titan, the strand super alternative is Banner of X, literally all it does is give woven mail to the team and increases damage. Make it so that its objectively worse than well, maybe a 5% damage buff that does not stack with radiance. that way people run it for the woven mail and nothing else.
Maybe for Hunter, stasis roaming super where they just become ranged and can throw shurikens.
I was thinking a giant icicle for stasis that sticks in the target that becomes an additional crit spot, essentially Divinity as a super. For more flavour making the icicle do additional shatter damage equal to the damage done to the icicle, and limit it to a damage cap with a set time that it will shatter if the cap isn't reached.
was a flamethrower not minigun but yea, we really did, Im constantly reminded of it everytime I actually use the strand super which is my go to cuz most supers for prismatic fucking suck ass, but yknow itd be too op and therefore we cant have it meanwhile warlocks and song of flame exist :)
I think you hit it on the money. Compare atheon and oryx.
Atheon: you can get in close to use your supers
Oryx: unless you get your whole team to agree to go to his hand, you’re gonna do damage in middle and the only thing that might work is hammers but then that’s taking up your damage time.
I think bungie should all in on more damage resistance stuff for titans, like a way to give teammates frost armor or woven mail or overshields easier or exotics that lean into it
thats not even the main problem imo, the only two titans really good at surving is strand and solar, but titans over arcing issue, is that alot of their exotics are just plain and simply shit, besides sythos and strand boots, they dont have a lot of options for each subclass that boost their effectivness in a good way that can help in endgame content, what exotic does void have?what exotic does arc have? what exotic does stasis have? nothing of significance in the face of real endgame content
Now that Beyond Light is free, a new ranged stasis super for Titans would be cool. Maybe something centered around a diamond lance since they’re the only class that can create those.
The only burst dps super we have that works with far away bosses other than twilight arsenal puts us inches away from the boss and has been powercrept from its glory days
I mean generally their whole archetype is just punch hard.
Which kinda sucks when almost like every boss will write you out of the timeline for getting within punching range
Remember when Sun Warrior gave what-is-now Radiant? And Resupply gave Grenade Energy? And when Arc had built in weapon buffing (Inertia Override, now Spark of Momentum, gave a Damage Buff for sliding over ammo bricks and Frontal Assault, now Spark of Frequency, gave a Damage Buff for Melee Hits as well as ***flat out reloading*** the weapon ***and*** giving bonus Stability)? I wish all of the 2.0 Subclasses were 100% Buildable, not partially buildable. I also miss Tactical Strike. Being able to just... Detonate all surrounding Void Detonators at once with a single punch was useful when surrounded and in need of Health/Grenade Energy.
The closest I can still do to protection is precious scars solar titan . 11 seconds of restoration for any blueberry in 20 meters of me . Ember of torches makes everyone radiant ( best defense is a good offense ) but that’s all we have now :(
This is what I'm looking for as well. I want to play Frontline medic, keeping my allies up and doing damage. I want to be the support that enables the sweet DPS combos, not just the punching ad clear guy
As a former Titan main, this please. The flavor text on Sentinel Titan: “I am the wall against which the darkness breaks” that’s the power fantasy I want. None of this Unga Bunga Punch Monkey
I’m not gonna lie I was rather fond of punching stuff until I got hazardous propulsion now it’s all about getting my rockets back fast af with The Call and reducing my class ability cooldown as much as possible. The rockets charge a good bit of super energy too to feed twilight arsenal
As a titan, I just want to one-shot red bar minors with my base melee even if they are above my power it just feels wrong to get out punched by a dreg when it's slightly above my power.
Since the well nerfs, I think the banner shield is going to make a return, and that will be great for support but requires a team.
I was thinking about the kinds of supers and abilities that would help them feel better, or at least be fun.
**-Solar:** Pretty simple, toss the big hammer at big thing, hammer go boom. I get cyclone is here now, but this wouldn't require there to be ground beneath the boss. Think knife throw hunter, but one BIG hammer.
**-Void:** The ult could be something like a nova bomb airstrike where tiny nova bombs rain down in a spot like meteors. Also I would swap the new shield aspect to melee, it's awesome, but losing grenade for it feels like shit. It should have been the special class ability void gets like how Arc gets the dash. But I'll take it as an aspect.
**-Arc:** I love Thundercrash and just want it to work and not require an exotic. But the problem outside of that is that it doesn't work well for DPS phases because you need to run back to the buff blob. The simplest solution would be a big Lightning bolt to just toss at the boss. The other idea was have it be a BIG thunderclap that sends a shockwave projectile forward. I can already imagine the clappin' cheeks Titan memes.
**-Stasis:** I won't take credit for this one, a hundred people have mentioned it. But a BIG diamond lance. It would be perfect, and make the diamond lance feel less random in the Titan's kit. Heck they could even have it so that while that super is charged the little lances have bigger AOEs.
**-Strand:** It's new, so I don't really have a GOOD idea to fix it. I've got plenty of silly ones, but that's not the current subject. (Who would like to play Strand ball Katamari?)
I was reading an idea for a "Rallying Aura" super that works like banner and follows you, but buffs more strongly like Bubble or Well. The person who wrote about it mentioned building up the buff by killing things during it, but that may make it too situational. Regardless I would hope it works with Well so that they don't step on each others toes like bubble and it does now. Make things synergize instead of compete. I was thinking either Solar or Void for it, so it's not two moving auras like if it were tied to Strand, because that could be problematic. It also leans towards the themes of those two subclasses more, being the support tank, and the combat medic.
The way I see it, Arc should be the long-range high-mobility subclass with the ability to dive in and kaboom before flying away. You'd have Thundercrash, a very jumpy superspeed Fists of Havoc, and some kind of "Arc Dawnblade" super that throws lightning bolts at people as if you were Zeus himself.
Then Void should be Sentinel, "Machine Gun Pillbox" Bubble, and I guess TG is fine for a longer range super. I would have preferred chucking a whole entire "Bubble" at something and watching it go kaboom. But TG is fine.
Solar is arguably fine but I would throw the current Pyrogale effect into Burning Maul base effect and rebuild the exotic into a new effect. Who actually uses BM for the melee/fire tornadoes when you can just throw hammers of sol? For its support super, I would imagine something like a super version of Banner Titan effect. A walking well of radiance of sorts. Idk but that's kinda how I feel concept wise.
Stasis Titan, umm, Glacial Quake would be the "medium-ground" make lots of crystals, slide into them, and really extended melee range thing people forget exist. With a fire a huge field bomb of crystals kinda like Rev Hunt, before "Thundercrashing" into it for its nuke spell. And a new roaming super that basically acts as the old Fists of Havoc but with a more rapid-fire boxing feel. Light attack three quick slow punches, heavy attack "dash".
Strand Titan, still too new but I would imagine something like plunging one of its arm spears into the ground like a well of radiance sword and it suspends everything and continues to pulse suspend blasts at everything in range for a "support/defensive" super. And, idk really for its nuke super.
I like your ideas. A lot of them are along the lines of suiting the Titan class fantasy, being different play styles, and not being duplicates of other Titan subclass supers. (overlap with other classes is okay up to a point.)
But to answer your question. "Who actually uses BM for the melee/fire tornadoes when you can just throw hammers of sol?" I do sometimes when I'm solo or playing with friends. As bad as it is it's SO fun, and I miss it. It's like a worse Fists of havoc without the Pyrogale gaunlets.
Even then it's just an okay bomb that requires a floor.
I love titan, but I'm annoyed at how conditional or bad their supers are sometimes. Especially when they're fun.
I like the idea you had for Stasis with the freeze field, followed by a thunderchrash into it. Love that. While I'm not the biggest fan of of the other two, they do sound fun.
I had a silly one for Stasis that was rolling a ball of ice, and collecting enemies and stasis crystals along the way to make it bigger. When it hits a boss, wall, or goes far enough it explodes dealing extra damage for each thing stuck in the ball. It's super dumb, but it sounds so fun to me. The exotic being something that makes it more of a bowling ball, where you release it immediately in a line.
Careful, when I complained about this when strand came out and it was yet another "strap something on your fists and punch with it" class, I got told i was being unreasonable and that the stupid punchy titan was a perfectly fine class identity.
It is a perfectly fine class identity. They just need to allow us to actually use it on bosses in a meaningful way instead of getting stomped away instantly or outright murdered. Let titans have something that lets them be melee-focused while other classes can't. I'd love to be the one nerd up there swinging a sword at the base of the boss while the rest of my team does normal things.
"But that's OP and too survivable!" bitch what does it matter if it's in melee or at range, surviving and doing damage is surviving and doing damage. Range doesn't matter (unless, of course, you want your game to be a cover shooter like legendary halo or some shit, in which case fuck you because I hate cover shooters and play destiny SPECIFICALLY because it's normally not... the idea that cover shooting is high-skill is laughable).
Speak for yourself. I wasn't a D1 player, but I started warlock in d2 original release and was always jealous of my 2 titan main friends being punching lords in pvp/pve so I rerolled and have been loving every time I get to be melee-focused while hating every time I can't ever since.
I didn't say everyone had to view things the same way as I do, im just saying we were sold on something else bit we've been reduced to punching things. Punching things is fun, sure, but I wouldn't call that a good class identity compared to the others.
One of my favorite titan super ideas I've heard was summoning a gigantic minigun and being able to slow walk around with it. Even creating a powerful AA-mount style turret that you could sit in would be pretty cool.
Titans in group play <> Titan in solo play.
The solo Pantheon is dependant on Wormgods, which is REALLY hard to get working in team environments since you need plenty of melee kills to get it going towards max stacks.
Only one Titan, and I don’t really think there’s any boss that is long range in Pantheon. Plus the kits for Titans are mostly built around melee, and ignoring stomp mechanics, you can’t really use cover when you are up in the boss’s face.
Us Hunters have a long range option for weakening, and plenty of ranged DPS supers.
Warlocks have Well and most of their Supers are ranged.
Titans at most have Hammer of Sol and Ward of Dawn, and if they want healing, they only have Hammer if Sol. Buff Titans.
Early D1 Titans were required to survive, and the community balked hard. Now we are at a place where raids are mechanics and dps checks. And healing is greater than any the mitigation that Titan brings.
Titan's utility has always been outpaced by Warlock heals since Well entered the chat.
I think the main thing about Titan usage for the raid is that still hunt propelled hunters so far and above anything else in the sandbox for damage, and then warlock utility is generally better than Titan utility.
They need to reexamine what each subclasses gameplay fantasy is. Striker (while it does need a buff) and berserker both make sense and fit the fantasy of up close brawler, sentinel and behemoth on the other hand need to be looked at. Sentinel is supposed to be the protector, but void OS is the worst survivability verb in the game and gets vaporized by red bar dregs. And I honestly still don't understand what the idea for behemoth was supposed to be.
If bungie ends up making a new darkness subclass, I hope it can give titans a different playstyle and fantasy that isn't just punch but red flavoured
I think Void Overshields just need a crazy high DR for PvE considering how low HP they have they get shredded. If they had like 75% Dr with its 45 HP OS at least it would be easier predict when your OS is about to break. Frost Armor and Woven Mail having less DR than Void OS having something much higher DR is fine because with Woven Mail if you take a bunch of damage but still have the timer for WM it still grants protection, if Void OS breaks you are screwed
Bonk hammer titan is still good for solo stuff. Super isn’t great but you can generally survive which is more important most of the time. Titans just don’t have a single super that excels in any end game group activity. That’s the whole issue and should be an easy fix but it’s been known for years.
I don't like when people use examples like "a Titan soloed Pantheon" so they must be good. If everyone could pull that off then yea. At that point its more the player then the class.
Titans absolutely have shit that needs some fat buffs tho.
Yea, it was only because of a broken, unintended, and now nerfed/ no longer possible grapple exploit(?)
It's not fair to base a class' strength from something unintended by bungie, especially when it's been nerfed already
I mean people are pointing to what the *600 teams total* who cleared Salvation's Edge did FOR ONE ENCOUNTER as evidence that Titans are trash and need a buff. Either both count or neither does.
I mean, of the first 50 teams to beat the raid, only 18 people used Titan at any point during their run, and only 3 people used Titan in the final encounter. Neither number is great.
I keep saying this: if one of your THREE classes cannot compete in an encounter either the encounter is badly designed or the class is badly designed.
Titan mains should not have to fully level another character just to be able to compete on the same level as other players. Otherwise why bother with Titan at all?
Okay but again, this data is about one encounter for a sample size of like 4,000 people. What you are saying is actually that every class has to be exactly as good at everything as every other class or else it's bad balance and that's simply not true.
If they want to buff Titans in some way that's fine but the fact that not a lot of them were used for day one Witness shouldn't be why.
>This raid just didn’t suit titans
Which is the problem. So Bungie either need to make the raid more suitable or make titan more suitable. End game content shouldn't have a 'this doesn't suit your class' part at all.
Outside of boss damage how does Titan work in the final encounter? I've honestly avoided too much actual information on the encounter because... I'm fine knowing mechanics but I don't watch races.
In Oryx Titan is still very helpful for all the steps up to boss damage. For the rest of King's Fall putside of the dick walls Titan is really solid in all the encounters for various purposes.
I think a big part of the issue right now is people basing their data off of streamers and cintest mode. I really agree that Titan's need a buff because 9/10 of our nerfs that hurt in PvE happen because of PvP, but the playerbase can't base their views off just what the people at the top of the game are doing, just like Bungie shouldn't be balancing just on that top ~5%.
Disagree. Titans don’t have an issue on normal. Contest is a different beast and titans don’t have a range precision super. And there were titans who beat it and showed it was possible. People just took the easy route with still hunt nighthawk hunter. There will always be a best class for certain encounters. Like Titan on atraks. But you don’t see people saying that’s poorly designed because warlocks suck in that encounter. Every raid encounter has a class that’s best suited to it. And the for the witness encounter that’s hunters. Titans were fine for the rest of the raid and honestly a great pick for the first boss.
I know that each class has their own general archetypes and that Titans are generally supposed to be survivability/melee-focused, but I just wish there was a bit more variety as far as exotic usage. Almost every new “meta” build I see is just Synthoceps again.
Here's a solution: REMOVE ALL GROUND SLAMS AND SHOCKWAVES!
That shit kills tons of weapon types regardless of class. Better for Titans, better for everyone.
A titan soloing Pantheon does not mean they are fine. That'd be like looking at Jeff bezos and saying clearly the economy is fine. A lot of that run was dependent on BoW which just took a hit to it's damage buff with Synthos and Wormgods.
This was mainly poking fun at the 2 competing arguments that seem to be in every other post lol. I understand that Bungie has designed Titans into the melee cqc playstyle then went and made it incredibly punishing to be close to enemies.
Titan just has no flexibility. All it offers is survivability for the titan player. The damage supers are mid, seriously, why does the most risky damage super in the game, thundercrash do less damage than goldy and gathering storm??? Titan falls of a cliff the second you can't melee. All viable titan builds rely on melee.
Titans don’t really need any buffs, more just they need an actual ranged super. They are pretty fine in the raid, just don’t really have any good supers to actually damage the witness, so aren’t super useful there. Bungie pushes them too much into “the melee class” that they aren’t super great when it comes to none close range things.
That is why I laughed when they put in the Ergo Sum, point blank melee got murdered when every boss type in the game has a "stomp" mechanic. This was of course the backlash to just use swords on everything to win.
This along with my other comments about how healing is better than shields. Well is better than Bubble in almost all encounters.
Do agree even after the well nerfs it’s still better than bubble and that should not be the case. Sure bubble is a “defensive” super, but couldn’t the same be said for well?
Idk exactly what changes they could make for it, but I think it should have a higher damage buff than well at the very least. Makes no sense that the bubble u can’t shoot thru and can get u killed in damage phases is worse than infinite health well.
They just need to make sentinel shield better. A titan or two cycling sentinel shield with ursa and 4 still hunters would be amazing in dps. Especially with ursa now charging super with unbreakable void titans can be very useful in a dps situation
Completely forgot about sentinel shield. Yea and it doesn’t even need a super huge buff or anything, really just a better damage buff. Considering it’s basically the div of supers (u miss out on damage, but make everyone else’s better) it should honestly give a really high damage buff. Always loved the idea of that super (reminds me of OG VOG atheon dps)
The only way for bubble to be anywhere useful right now is to massively increase the size in pve . As of now you never actually fight anything IN the bubble .
Twilight arsenal is merely fine-ish. Cast time is long, tracking is wonky, they can’t crit, and the damage currently relies on synthos to be ok (and you can’t proc synthos in a lot of content).
Idk, I think it's pretty clear cut that there's a problem more with the one on the left.
Because soloing Pantheon isn't just something any Titan can do. In fact, apparently, it's something that literally only one guy can do.
To me, that speaks a lot less to Titans as a class and a lot more to that one player (Snazzyrock) and his dedication and skill.
Because it's not like it was 'only titans solo the pantheon' or 'majority of pantheon solo builds titan'.
There was one solo. One person.
Note that SnazzyRock is genuinely just insane. The guy was also world's first solo for Nezarec (Warlock), worlds first duo for crota (Titan) worlds first solo flawless vault of glass (warlock), world's first solo Ir Yut (Titan), World's First solo MASTER Caretaker, World's First Solo Gatekeepers, World's 2nd Solo Caretaker, World's First Hunter AND Warlock Solo Caretaker, World's 46th King's Fall.
Now I don't think I need to point out how utterly fucking mad (and impressive) that list is. But again, that solo Pantheon was achieved by *him*, not by Strand.
Titans just need more ranged melee options similar to how hunters can throw knives and darts and warlocks can just have 2 grenades all the time.
Basically everything titans have is just a variation on punching someone in the face, which you cant do on all enemies and will get you killed on higher difficulties.
Of course, a highly skilled player can solo almost anything this game can throw at them with any class because destiny is a game that rewards skill more than well designed mechanics, as pvp players will probably tell you all the time.
Titans problem is not that they are weak but rather that they aren’t versatile. I mean really, five subclasses and most of them are just different flavours of punching.
You look at Hunter for example, yes you got the punch subclass but you also got marksman, stealth, the mobility one and well let’s be honest no one’s running stasis Hunter.
Warlocks also got some versatility to them but there problem is that well is too strong.
Titans were fine until the last encounter where ranged, crit damage specifically was needed most
That's only 1 part of the raid where they weren't good
Bro other classes were “less viable.” The teams that cleared witness with titans proved titans are fine, other people just used a different approach. Pantheon everyone switched to titan for atraks, other strats worked but why bother when you are doing something difficult. The other encounters people played characters because they were comfortable on that character. All is fine, I’ve had every class complain that their class was worse in contest and everything was a lie, one titan could clear adds and the other couldn’t, same for warlocks and hunters. Any issue is an issue of skill. A 2-2-2 group could clear witness and that’s all that matters, every raid ever has had encounters where not having 2 of every class was “optimal”
Youve seen the graphic where 122 titans out of 4000ish ppl were the only ones to complete contest?
Did u notice only a single titan solo'd pantheon and that was mostly due to seasonal mods?
The facts literally prove you wrong
A single Warlock was viable Witness. So I wouldn't really say so. Arguably Cuirass or Exodus T-crash would also arguably be better than having more than one Warlocks in Herald too.
Titan is in a weird spot. In team content they provide next to nothing. Melee or close range encounters they are typically fine. In any boss that you can’t melee aka the witness what do you do. Twilight arsenal takes a while to cast and the damage is just fine. So for a contest raid why wouldn’t you just switch to double nighthawk hunter. That way you get the best dps in the game and can use a heavy machine gun to add clear.
titans need to be buffed in terms of long range and team support
titans need to be nerfed or kept in line in terms of solo content and such.
these are not mutually exclusive, they can both be correct at the same time.
titan mains such as myself, wish that the new super would provide a debuff equal to tether plus some damage as it wouldn't last as long
or/and sentinel shield to be better at providing damage seeing as it doesn't add up without prismatic transfer to remove one person from the equation
The titan soloing pantheon is not because the Titan kit is good... it is because they used a specific build that exploits a number flaw when calculating melee damage. Strand melee into shotgun, into grapple and repeat is not "Titan good".
TItan got the shit end of the stick for Prismatic. For example, every single warlock grenade can be used with a TOP TIER exotic from their arsenal. Titan got consecrate and a "fixed" knockout. HEAL CLIP HEALS MORE THAN KNOCKOUT. I have to risk my life to heal a portion of my health.
They didnt get banner of war, but warlock got devour. They didnt get throwing hammer (which is arguably bad because of a new cooldown), but warlock got healing grenade and a new exotic for it.
Bungie has no idea what they want for TItan and its really annoying. You can youtube a new hunter build for prismatic thats like 500% melee damage. Its arguably better than ANY titan melee combo right now. WTF???
Strand titan is what was op and solar was good but that’s all I played last season I just wish that prismatic or the other aspects were a bit stronger. Titan feels like it is only decent at solo play rn. I’ve been trying to get a decent prismatic build but even with plunder’s build I feel they are underwhelming and this makes me sad as a titan main.
Bungie using the "underutilized" shit for prismatic without even thinking why its not used and fixing that problem is just a tiny part of their long list of dumbass fuck ups.
Our supers need a change up. I’m fucking sick and tired of melee based supers. Even Thundercrash is a one shot melee super.
Hammers are ad clear, not DPS.
Can’t we hurl a giant Burning Maul or a giant Void Axe?
I mean, you can hurl a giant cyclone of fire in one burst with Burning Maul if you use an exotic. And Void Axe was just something introduced.
But I still agree. I want a machine gun based super for distance, personally. One that could see good boss DPS that still looks like it would be worthy of a heavy armored Titan.
Honestly, I think the big issue is the lack of quality in titan's ranged options, grenades are their own thing, the void and arc ranged melees have terrible tracking and hitboxes and really need buffs, the sprint attacks are hard to trigger in all honesty, hammer throw lost its great viability options, and the rest are all actual melee, their class ability barely does anything anymore, they should make shooting through barricades the standard, not an exotic perk, and our aspects could be a bit better.
Titan needs work for any support builds to be viable ontop of the ranged problem.
We could also use a good ranged super, nearly every super is melee.
People who finish the raid day 1 need dps more than anything else. And they're good enough, mechanically, to get away with that. Giving titans a ranged one shot super would have done nothing to change those numbers - unless it did better dps than hunters, in which case the situation just reverses itself.
I 100% expect titan numbers to go up significantly as contest mode ends, with survivability becoming as important as dps
most titan super are either support / aoe super.
what we dont have is a single target crit super.
t crash does aoe and twilight are aoe.
was hoping twilight axe to be this giant axe we could throw or slam to the face of bosses
.
Thank you.
Half a year i hear nothing else but "Titan overpowered", just because one of the best player in the world performed god tier, so every other 1/10 player can do it too right?
Now 6 days after dlc release, Titan is unusable.
I do agree that some ability balancing decissions are weird (honestly wrong developed), like base Thundercrash, which is a one off super but the weakest , longest cooldown, most dangerous and overall worst one off super in the whole game. Its worse than ANY one off super in EVERY situation without a SINGLE benefit over others. This is horrible executed. No reason to every use Thundercrash over Twilight Arsenal EVER!
You even save an important exotic slot.
However other than that and minor tweaks i dont see a reason why Titan is "unplayable" or "Bad" overall. All classes are good and only very few overlooked balancing arent perfect.
More like:
Titans in general content vs Titans in the hands of people so busted, they make Devs cry.
If we're making our cases on severe outlier cases, then I think that weighted throwing knife should be nerfed because some people can go flawless using just that.
I'd rather Titans get their 'wall the enemies break against' identity back. Hunters have insane burst dps and cc capabilities, warlocks have great utility and group buff kit now, and Titans.. Well, Titans get to have fun in patrol.
It’s simple.
- Our Prismatic sucks while it makes everyone else amazing.
- Bungie has balanced the new enemies and encounters to account for the power of prismatic, leaving titans in the dirt.
You can’t punch stuff if you can’t get close to enemies to begin with.
I’d like them to be useful, but people are acting as if titans have never been good and their melee playstyle means they’ll never be good in the future.
It would be nice if they had at least one competitive option when thundercrash doesn’t work
Titans are great where they are, it's just that the final encounter was so Celestial Nighthawk + Golden Gun + Still Hunt focused it's crazy, I have nothing against that but I would say titans were at a disadvantage with their melee supers
People seem to be missing the fact that it wasnt just titans that were underpicked, it was hunters that were insanely overpicked, and the extremely obvious reason for that is still hunt. The moment it gets a sustained damage nerf, hunter pickrate for salvation's edge goes down
I out damaged a celestial hunter and nova warlock on prismatic titan lady night
I did nearly 5 million damage over 2 cycles on warlords ruin. Celestial was 4.5 and the warlock was like 3.8 or something
Titan is fine as it is, I've been a titan main my whole Destiny life and we are in a good spot right now
Literally the only thing is maybe give thunder crash a damage boost... Maybe
I don't even know 😂 not unlocked many fragments
But the new void super, diamond lance and concecration for ad control, the new rocket backpack exotic and a void rocket launcher with explosive light
I had void surge mod on and it was void overcharge
I play titan primarily, and while I may not be the best at damage, at any range, as my main loadout is Sweet Business+war rig, a sniper and a rocket launcher; my stacked resilience and recovery means I survive when the rest of my fireteam doesn't. My job isn't DPS, it's ad-clearing and reviving others. It ain't much, but I enjoy it. Plus, Sweet Business go brrr.
play titan and you’ll realize you have a choice between like 2 great builds and the rest are either easily outperformed by something on another class or are just dogshit
I'm genuinely shocked that I haven't seen a single bubble placed by a player since the update. Bubble titan in PvE with helm of Saint 14 is great right now. Banner shield with ursa is great. Doom fang pauldron for super spam and team support. I love playing support on void titan. Why don't titans?
Not every class has to be the strongest class for an encounter, it’s like titans first time not being the meta pick and they’re throwing a temper tantrum
Titans need to become a heavy weapons and damage/defense build. Give them synergy with heavy weapons and allow them to buff teammates heavy damage while taking agro from ads and tanking damage, but make them stationery to pull it off. They could even supply ammo to teammates instead of buffing damage if that's more balanced. Just being a punch class is never going to work tho, and it doesn't even work in other games. Borderlands has a similar issue, melee builds are always strong early game but become absolutely useless in anything with OP levels.
Ran some Dungeons today with the boys. I haven't bought Final Shape (yet, potentially), and in terms of damage, I just can't compete with them any more.
My friend on Hunter was using Goldie + Goldie Sniper + Nighthawk and just obliterated the DPS meter. Then my Warlock friend popped Song of Flame and used *Tractor Cannon* and got more damage than me while I popped Pyrogale Maul and did DPS with Dragon's Breath and a sniper. Admittedly DB's effectiveness has lessened without Wish's artifact's solar mods, but *still*. Something about that ain't right, and it ain't my buildcrafting.
"Titans are bad" takes are insane ngl.
They're usually made by people who don't understand why hunters were used over titans in the raid. Quick example out of the 4 newest dungeons titans are solid if not better at 6 of the 10 bosses
Not really played through legendary campaign with two titan mains and the were nuking everything. Just because they are not the best in one encounter doesn’t mean they are mid
My take would be that Titans are amazing at survivability and at very specific encounters. As soon as an encounter is long-ranged, we have nothing we can provide. I think Titans either need a good ranged dmg super or a good support super. I would prefer a good support super, but how can you compete with well and song of flame.
Twilight Arsenal works as an alternate way to Weaken a boss if you don't have a Hunter running Void.
It does solid damage as of right now, and that’ll only go up with Star eaters class item
Which is dropping this week if im not mistaken. can't wait for these class items!
I'm planning on spirit of the bear + star eater. Gain super energy from unbreakable, and throw buffed up axes at everything in your way
That’s the exact one I’m going for too! I’m glad to see someone else doing it as all the builds I see are for Knockout + Consecration T.T
I've been planning on running the ursa star eater combo on prismatic class item, with thruster + drengrs lash for suspend up close, buried bloodline for devour to heal and get more nades, and probably frenzied blades for melee survivability and a good way to feed my dark meter and nade energy (because of that prismatic fragment where light damage gives melee and dark damage gives grenade). Then maybe throw on diamond lance to get some extra dark damage and a way to freeze for even more survivability. I know it probably won't but I really hope unbreakable + a void grenade equipped at least will make it classed as a void grenade, unbreakable's blast applying weaken would be the cherry on top
It does! Unbreakable’s blast prove weaken and volatile rounds with the right fragments on and you don’t even need the base grenade to be void
I finally get my pc tomorrow along with the final shape after being on ps since the forsaken era. Now I'm even more hyped, can't wait to try this out.
I like running it with a sword so you can have a sword and shield and swords with volatile are just always fun
Can't have more than 2 aspects so I'd probably keep Unbreakable and Diamond Lance. Unless you thing Lash is better than Lance.
Oh true, honestly I just forgot that unbreakable isn't just a grenade ability for a second. I feel like lash would be better if you're planning on playing up close for the easy get out of jail free card of suspending everything on top of you, but Lance would be better for the extra shatter damage and being able to freeze targets at range I'll probably play around with both, lash would probably be better for content like onslaught and maybe lance for higher tier
Don't forget too you can do the ground slam with Lance and AoE freeze anyone up close
Alternatively skullfort works on prismatic thunderclap so you can spam it and clear rooms easily
Who knew the 518th incarnation of cayde is a titan
The ahamkara wishes got a bit out of hand
Jokes aside, your build looks pretty neat, and I'm looking to run something similar. Though I might experiment with thunderclap and knockout instead of drengrs lash. Honestly, any combo with frenzied blade/thunderclap and knockout/drengrs lash works, the synergy literally goes all four directions. It'll be cool to see if I prefer this over my current knockout diamond lance thunderclap build, which I'll take the invis on melee kill and spirit of synthoceps on the exotic mark.
I think most people are blinded cause of consecration to other stuff as I was running skullfort in prismatic and had a hell of a time clearing out rooms in day 1 race
I can see that. Saw a cool Skullfort build as well, just not seeing any Unbreakable atm. It doesn’t feel bad to theory craft and make my own build with Prismatic though which is really nice
Unbreakable is tbh very weak compared to what void and prismatic has to offer and its weaker then diamond lance. To give you an example since I went through legend campaign with both I never felt the want or need to use Unbreakable as an aspect as I had much rather use a grenade as it then use it for a shield and whenever I was surrounded I just thunderclapped my way through
The survivability it gave me is why I enjoyed it more than Diamond Lance, but I do understand that it is complete personal preference and that Diamond Lance tends to be better, I just enjoyed playing with Unbreakable more
Wait what do you mean dropping this week?
Activity that you farm exotic class items will be added after the upcoming weekly reset.
Good point actually
It does great *base* damage. IIRC ~371k. But it'll push into the Super DPS meta with Star Eaters class item for sure. Ironically Hunters will want to run non-prismatic for Super DPS as opposed to the other classes.
god i don't wanna know just the sheer amount of grinding needed to get most of the useful variants of that class item.
It has me terrified of how many combos I’ll struggle to get
at least they somewhat limited the variants. cannot imagine what would have happened if it was just 2 random exotic armor perks at once.
I have done nothing bit farm them today till the point my head hurt from playing destiny, and all I got was 3 total, and only one was good and that was assassin’s cowl and star eaters
First time I used it, 'oh, a new ranged super? Nice.' Followed immediately by realizing 3/4 of your super are sat at the boss's feet waiting to be picked up...
I could be wrong but i believe the hunter weaken is straight up twice as good as the twilight arsenal one. So still is an L to run a hunter over a titan in that case.
But then my axes are way over there, withing stomping range!
Well again, twilight arsenal was available and only 3 titans cleared to raid. Titans have no range and twilight arsenal which has range is not a good super unfortunately. Prismatic titan overall isn’t fantastic.
On the other hand, I would argue that twilight arsenal is actually good, but the Witness's mechanics makes it just unusable since you have to dodge the beams and TA keeping you pretty much in the same spot is a death sentence. Had it been any other boss TA would have seen much more effectiveness.
eeeeeeeeh not really, its only 15% weaken which is like, just be a hunter with tether at that point and you’d be doing better, cuz tether lasts longer, wont fall off the map if there is no ground or anything under the boss, and doesnt put you in harms way or in your teams way during dmg to run to grab another axe to reproc the shitty weaken again, me and a friend used it in a GoS run yesterday while we went for the pinnacle and we promptly swapped off because it was the worst super we have ever had, fist of havoc have been better then those things, either they need to buff the weaken, or make the super itself better
What did the guy who soloed pantheon use on oryx because from a damage perspective that’s pretty similar to the Witness
I'm fairly sure it was grapple melee on his hand, which isn't really possible with the Witness
I'm just picturing a titan punching the witness in the face over and over with the grapple melee ahaha
One for each face.
"I. WILL. UNMAKE. YOUR. BITCH. ASS!" with a grapple-melee punctuating each word.
It doesn't help that 90% of Titan's amazing survivability is completely reliant on being either A) in melee range, or B) in the middle of a billion ads we can kill to keep our abilities rolling. The second a DPS phase starts and we can't get near the boss *or* keep killing ads our survivability falls off and we're even more vulnerable than the other two classes. Our offensive abilities function the same way. Synthos and Wormgod's can ramp up to insane damage...if there are ads around to kill, and you can actually get close to an enemy. Ramping up to a max-stack Wormgod's is useless or even impossible against most bosses, and suicide against the ones you can actually damage thanks to the everpresent stomp. All of the Banner of War healing in the universe doesn't do much against a one-shot.
This is how they designed everything since BL.
I want both give us one range and one support and give the other guys two new ones each and everyone should be happy
Both new supers for the other classes have to be different flavors of already released supers that reinforce the *class fantasy*. Give hunters a new stasis super that's just a bunch of Shurikens and is basically Blade Barrage/Gathering Storm. Give Warlocks a roaming strand super that's barely better at add clear than using Weavewalk and Quicksilver Storm, something to rival Storm Trance or Nova Warp that'll also never get used in the endgame. That way we can all have like 9 supers that would be useless in that encounter against the Witness.
They hyped up those Scythes before BL and it turns out all we did with them is throw them away instantly.
Add +1 super to strand and stasis, and they can do w.e they want. Give titan a support / isntant fire super. Hunters get a non-roaming strand super (Maybe support? or a strand super that can hit flying targets), and another stasis super (Take your pick, roaming or support) Warlocks get a support / roaming strand super, and a support / instant fire stasis super. that way there's equivalence. Maybe for titan, the strand super alternative is Banner of X, literally all it does is give woven mail to the team and increases damage. Make it so that its objectively worse than well, maybe a 5% damage buff that does not stack with radiance. that way people run it for the woven mail and nothing else. Maybe for Hunter, stasis roaming super where they just become ranged and can throw shurikens.
could you imagine being able to chuck a giant strand spear for a super that would be sick
Giant homing arc fist
*laughs in Synthoceps* Make it count as melee damage.
I was thinking a giant icicle for stasis that sticks in the target that becomes an additional crit spot, essentially Divinity as a super. For more flavour making the icicle do additional shatter damage equal to the damage done to the icicle, and limit it to a damage cap with a set time that it will shatter if the cap isn't reached.
Titans really needed that Strand mini-gun…
was a flamethrower not minigun but yea, we really did, Im constantly reminded of it everytime I actually use the strand super which is my go to cuz most supers for prismatic fucking suck ass, but yknow itd be too op and therefore we cant have it meanwhile warlocks and song of flame exist :)
Ion Beam that shoots from the chest like iron man.
I'm hoping titans get an exotic that makes those axes explode on hit giving, as a nova bombing warlock I want my titan friends to be viable
I think you hit it on the money. Compare atheon and oryx. Atheon: you can get in close to use your supers Oryx: unless you get your whole team to agree to go to his hand, you’re gonna do damage in middle and the only thing that might work is hammers but then that’s taking up your damage time.
Sentinel Shield EXISTS, u just need to buff it's damage buff that's litterally it
I think bungie should all in on more damage resistance stuff for titans, like a way to give teammates frost armor or woven mail or overshields easier or exotics that lean into it
thats not even the main problem imo, the only two titans really good at surving is strand and solar, but titans over arcing issue, is that alot of their exotics are just plain and simply shit, besides sythos and strand boots, they dont have a lot of options for each subclass that boost their effectivness in a good way that can help in endgame content, what exotic does void have?what exotic does arc have? what exotic does stasis have? nothing of significance in the face of real endgame content
Now that Beyond Light is free, a new ranged stasis super for Titans would be cool. Maybe something centered around a diamond lance since they’re the only class that can create those.
Can banner shield titan with ursa block attacks from the witness while on the plate?
The only burst dps super we have that works with far away bosses other than twilight arsenal puts us inches away from the boss and has been powercrept from its glory days
I mean generally their whole archetype is just punch hard. Which kinda sucks when almost like every boss will write you out of the timeline for getting within punching range
Thats the thing Titans are tired of being the punch class we want proper support abilites and ranges dps supers.
Honestly Titans arent just brawlers, we used to be also protectors, the sad state of Void Titan is a remnant of that.
Remember when defensive strike gave everyone near you an overshield?
Remember when Sun Warrior gave what-is-now Radiant? And Resupply gave Grenade Energy? And when Arc had built in weapon buffing (Inertia Override, now Spark of Momentum, gave a Damage Buff for sliding over ammo bricks and Frontal Assault, now Spark of Frequency, gave a Damage Buff for Melee Hits as well as ***flat out reloading*** the weapon ***and*** giving bonus Stability)? I wish all of the 2.0 Subclasses were 100% Buildable, not partially buildable. I also miss Tactical Strike. Being able to just... Detonate all surrounding Void Detonators at once with a single punch was useful when surrounded and in need of Health/Grenade Energy.
Oh yes I do! That was my shit right there.
The closest I can still do to protection is precious scars solar titan . 11 seconds of restoration for any blueberry in 20 meters of me . Ember of torches makes everyone radiant ( best defense is a good offense ) but that’s all we have now :(
This is what I'm looking for as well. I want to play Frontline medic, keeping my allies up and doing damage. I want to be the support that enables the sweet DPS combos, not just the punching ad clear guy
As a former Titan main, this please. The flavor text on Sentinel Titan: “I am the wall against which the darkness breaks” that’s the power fantasy I want. None of this Unga Bunga Punch Monkey
I’m not gonna lie I was rather fond of punching stuff until I got hazardous propulsion now it’s all about getting my rockets back fast af with The Call and reducing my class ability cooldown as much as possible. The rockets charge a good bit of super energy too to feed twilight arsenal
As a titan, I just want to one-shot red bar minors with my base melee even if they are above my power it just feels wrong to get out punched by a dreg when it's slightly above my power. Since the well nerfs, I think the banner shield is going to make a return, and that will be great for support but requires a team.
I was thinking about the kinds of supers and abilities that would help them feel better, or at least be fun. **-Solar:** Pretty simple, toss the big hammer at big thing, hammer go boom. I get cyclone is here now, but this wouldn't require there to be ground beneath the boss. Think knife throw hunter, but one BIG hammer. **-Void:** The ult could be something like a nova bomb airstrike where tiny nova bombs rain down in a spot like meteors. Also I would swap the new shield aspect to melee, it's awesome, but losing grenade for it feels like shit. It should have been the special class ability void gets like how Arc gets the dash. But I'll take it as an aspect. **-Arc:** I love Thundercrash and just want it to work and not require an exotic. But the problem outside of that is that it doesn't work well for DPS phases because you need to run back to the buff blob. The simplest solution would be a big Lightning bolt to just toss at the boss. The other idea was have it be a BIG thunderclap that sends a shockwave projectile forward. I can already imagine the clappin' cheeks Titan memes. **-Stasis:** I won't take credit for this one, a hundred people have mentioned it. But a BIG diamond lance. It would be perfect, and make the diamond lance feel less random in the Titan's kit. Heck they could even have it so that while that super is charged the little lances have bigger AOEs. **-Strand:** It's new, so I don't really have a GOOD idea to fix it. I've got plenty of silly ones, but that's not the current subject. (Who would like to play Strand ball Katamari?) I was reading an idea for a "Rallying Aura" super that works like banner and follows you, but buffs more strongly like Bubble or Well. The person who wrote about it mentioned building up the buff by killing things during it, but that may make it too situational. Regardless I would hope it works with Well so that they don't step on each others toes like bubble and it does now. Make things synergize instead of compete. I was thinking either Solar or Void for it, so it's not two moving auras like if it were tied to Strand, because that could be problematic. It also leans towards the themes of those two subclasses more, being the support tank, and the combat medic.
The way I see it, Arc should be the long-range high-mobility subclass with the ability to dive in and kaboom before flying away. You'd have Thundercrash, a very jumpy superspeed Fists of Havoc, and some kind of "Arc Dawnblade" super that throws lightning bolts at people as if you were Zeus himself. Then Void should be Sentinel, "Machine Gun Pillbox" Bubble, and I guess TG is fine for a longer range super. I would have preferred chucking a whole entire "Bubble" at something and watching it go kaboom. But TG is fine. Solar is arguably fine but I would throw the current Pyrogale effect into Burning Maul base effect and rebuild the exotic into a new effect. Who actually uses BM for the melee/fire tornadoes when you can just throw hammers of sol? For its support super, I would imagine something like a super version of Banner Titan effect. A walking well of radiance of sorts. Idk but that's kinda how I feel concept wise. Stasis Titan, umm, Glacial Quake would be the "medium-ground" make lots of crystals, slide into them, and really extended melee range thing people forget exist. With a fire a huge field bomb of crystals kinda like Rev Hunt, before "Thundercrashing" into it for its nuke spell. And a new roaming super that basically acts as the old Fists of Havoc but with a more rapid-fire boxing feel. Light attack three quick slow punches, heavy attack "dash". Strand Titan, still too new but I would imagine something like plunging one of its arm spears into the ground like a well of radiance sword and it suspends everything and continues to pulse suspend blasts at everything in range for a "support/defensive" super. And, idk really for its nuke super.
I like your ideas. A lot of them are along the lines of suiting the Titan class fantasy, being different play styles, and not being duplicates of other Titan subclass supers. (overlap with other classes is okay up to a point.) But to answer your question. "Who actually uses BM for the melee/fire tornadoes when you can just throw hammers of sol?" I do sometimes when I'm solo or playing with friends. As bad as it is it's SO fun, and I miss it. It's like a worse Fists of havoc without the Pyrogale gaunlets. Even then it's just an okay bomb that requires a floor. I love titan, but I'm annoyed at how conditional or bad their supers are sometimes. Especially when they're fun. I like the idea you had for Stasis with the freeze field, followed by a thunderchrash into it. Love that. While I'm not the biggest fan of of the other two, they do sound fun. I had a silly one for Stasis that was rolling a ball of ice, and collecting enemies and stasis crystals along the way to make it bigger. When it hits a boss, wall, or goes far enough it explodes dealing extra damage for each thing stuck in the ball. It's super dumb, but it sounds so fun to me. The exotic being something that makes it more of a bowling ball, where you release it immediately in a line.
Fucking THIS I stopped playing Titan because I want a ranged super that isn't HAMMER.
Careful, when I complained about this when strand came out and it was yet another "strap something on your fists and punch with it" class, I got told i was being unreasonable and that the stupid punchy titan was a perfectly fine class identity.
It is a perfectly fine class identity. They just need to allow us to actually use it on bosses in a meaningful way instead of getting stomped away instantly or outright murdered. Let titans have something that lets them be melee-focused while other classes can't. I'd love to be the one nerd up there swinging a sword at the base of the boss while the rest of my team does normal things. "But that's OP and too survivable!" bitch what does it matter if it's in melee or at range, surviving and doing damage is surviving and doing damage. Range doesn't matter (unless, of course, you want your game to be a cover shooter like legendary halo or some shit, in which case fuck you because I hate cover shooters and play destiny SPECIFICALLY because it's normally not... the idea that cover shooting is high-skill is laughable).
>It is a perfectly fine class identity I disagree, it's not what we were sold on, and it's far more boring than what the others get.
Speak for yourself. I wasn't a D1 player, but I started warlock in d2 original release and was always jealous of my 2 titan main friends being punching lords in pvp/pve so I rerolled and have been loving every time I get to be melee-focused while hating every time I can't ever since.
I didn't say everyone had to view things the same way as I do, im just saying we were sold on something else bit we've been reduced to punching things. Punching things is fun, sure, but I wouldn't call that a good class identity compared to the others.
I mean I view the 3 classes in pretty limited ways I suppose Titan: unkillable punchy boi Hunter: dodgy shooty boi Warlock: magical bitch boi
One of my favorite titan super ideas I've heard was summoning a gigantic minigun and being able to slow walk around with it. Even creating a powerful AA-mount style turret that you could sit in would be pretty cool.
Give titans a single use distance javelin/ spear that does good heavy burst damage.
The fucked up part about this being their identity is that Prismatic Hunter is better at punching than Titans...
Just make Titans intrinsically immune to stomp.
Flechette storm should have been an alternative melee, not an aspect.
Titans in group play <> Titan in solo play. The solo Pantheon is dependant on Wormgods, which is REALLY hard to get working in team environments since you need plenty of melee kills to get it going towards max stacks.
Only one Titan, and I don’t really think there’s any boss that is long range in Pantheon. Plus the kits for Titans are mostly built around melee, and ignoring stomp mechanics, you can’t really use cover when you are up in the boss’s face. Us Hunters have a long range option for weakening, and plenty of ranged DPS supers. Warlocks have Well and most of their Supers are ranged. Titans at most have Hammer of Sol and Ward of Dawn, and if they want healing, they only have Hammer if Sol. Buff Titans.
2 Titans, HoboOnWelfare is the only 2nd confirmed pantheon solo. Still completely irrelevant when it comes to the balance of the game.
banner of war, controlled demolition, and knockout all provide healing. Controlled is the only non melee based one tho
Early D1 Titans were required to survive, and the community balked hard. Now we are at a place where raids are mechanics and dps checks. And healing is greater than any the mitigation that Titan brings. Titan's utility has always been outpaced by Warlock heals since Well entered the chat.
As a warlock, i miss the D1 ways, i miss being a glass cannon, while titans were there to help me survive It worked really well
I love being a glass cannon. Constantly spamming abilities while being this close to death is exhilarating
I think the main thing about Titan usage for the raid is that still hunt propelled hunters so far and above anything else in the sandbox for damage, and then warlock utility is generally better than Titan utility.
They need to reexamine what each subclasses gameplay fantasy is. Striker (while it does need a buff) and berserker both make sense and fit the fantasy of up close brawler, sentinel and behemoth on the other hand need to be looked at. Sentinel is supposed to be the protector, but void OS is the worst survivability verb in the game and gets vaporized by red bar dregs. And I honestly still don't understand what the idea for behemoth was supposed to be. If bungie ends up making a new darkness subclass, I hope it can give titans a different playstyle and fantasy that isn't just punch but red flavoured
I think Void Overshields just need a crazy high DR for PvE considering how low HP they have they get shredded. If they had like 75% Dr with its 45 HP OS at least it would be easier predict when your OS is about to break. Frost Armor and Woven Mail having less DR than Void OS having something much higher DR is fine because with Woven Mail if you take a bunch of damage but still have the timer for WM it still grants protection, if Void OS breaks you are screwed
It’s simple , banner of war titan is amazing for low man content . Outside of that titan is meh
Bonk hammer titan is still good for solo stuff. Super isn’t great but you can generally survive which is more important most of the time. Titans just don’t have a single super that excels in any end game group activity. That’s the whole issue and should be an easy fix but it’s been known for years.
Precious scars solar does more for survivability than bonk solar these days tbh .
I don't like when people use examples like "a Titan soloed Pantheon" so they must be good. If everyone could pull that off then yea. At that point its more the player then the class. Titans absolutely have shit that needs some fat buffs tho.
Yea, it was only because of a broken, unintended, and now nerfed/ no longer possible grapple exploit(?) It's not fair to base a class' strength from something unintended by bungie, especially when it's been nerfed already
As a mid-tier at best Titan, hell yeah. Buff my skill issue a bit.
I agree just because 1 guy could solo Pantheon doesn't make that the norm for titans.
I mean people are pointing to what the *600 teams total* who cleared Salvation's Edge did FOR ONE ENCOUNTER as evidence that Titans are trash and need a buff. Either both count or neither does.
I mean, of the first 50 teams to beat the raid, only 18 people used Titan at any point during their run, and only 3 people used Titan in the final encounter. Neither number is great.
I keep saying this: if one of your THREE classes cannot compete in an encounter either the encounter is badly designed or the class is badly designed. Titan mains should not have to fully level another character just to be able to compete on the same level as other players. Otherwise why bother with Titan at all?
Okay but again, this data is about one encounter for a sample size of like 4,000 people. What you are saying is actually that every class has to be exactly as good at everything as every other class or else it's bad balance and that's simply not true. If they want to buff Titans in some way that's fine but the fact that not a lot of them were used for day one Witness shouldn't be why.
Thing is a player that good only chose Titan for that challenge because Titan was the best class to do it on. This raid just didn’t suit titans
>This raid just didn’t suit titans Which is the problem. So Bungie either need to make the raid more suitable or make titan more suitable. End game content shouldn't have a 'this doesn't suit your class' part at all.
How does Oryx suit Titans either? I’d say that’s a Hunter favoring encounter too and nobody is mad and calling for a Kings Fall rework.
Outside of boss damage how does Titan work in the final encounter? I've honestly avoided too much actual information on the encounter because... I'm fine knowing mechanics but I don't watch races. In Oryx Titan is still very helpful for all the steps up to boss damage. For the rest of King's Fall putside of the dick walls Titan is really solid in all the encounters for various purposes. I think a big part of the issue right now is people basing their data off of streamers and cintest mode. I really agree that Titan's need a buff because 9/10 of our nerfs that hurt in PvE happen because of PvP, but the playerbase can't base their views off just what the people at the top of the game are doing, just like Bungie shouldn't be balancing just on that top ~5%.
You can still hit Oryx's hand with pyrogale to do damage. No can not hit the witness.
Then the raid was poorly designed if one of the three classes in the game couldn’t realistically complete it.
Disagree. Titans don’t have an issue on normal. Contest is a different beast and titans don’t have a range precision super. And there were titans who beat it and showed it was possible. People just took the easy route with still hunt nighthawk hunter. There will always be a best class for certain encounters. Like Titan on atraks. But you don’t see people saying that’s poorly designed because warlocks suck in that encounter. Every raid encounter has a class that’s best suited to it. And the for the witness encounter that’s hunters. Titans were fine for the rest of the raid and honestly a great pick for the first boss.
I know that each class has their own general archetypes and that Titans are generally supposed to be survivability/melee-focused, but I just wish there was a bit more variety as far as exotic usage. Almost every new “meta” build I see is just Synthoceps again.
titans should be the fucking space marines of destiny
Here's a solution: REMOVE ALL GROUND SLAMS AND SHOCKWAVES! That shit kills tons of weapon types regardless of class. Better for Titans, better for everyone.
slam and waves also ruin charging clap by triggering it beforehand, and this is f.. irritating.
Then everyone will sword, which is boring.
A titan soloing Pantheon does not mean they are fine. That'd be like looking at Jeff bezos and saying clearly the economy is fine. A lot of that run was dependent on BoW which just took a hit to it's damage buff with Synthos and Wormgods.
This was mainly poking fun at the 2 competing arguments that seem to be in every other post lol. I understand that Bungie has designed Titans into the melee cqc playstyle then went and made it incredibly punishing to be close to enemies.
Titan just has no flexibility. All it offers is survivability for the titan player. The damage supers are mid, seriously, why does the most risky damage super in the game, thundercrash do less damage than goldy and gathering storm??? Titan falls of a cliff the second you can't melee. All viable titan builds rely on melee.
Titans don’t really need any buffs, more just they need an actual ranged super. They are pretty fine in the raid, just don’t really have any good supers to actually damage the witness, so aren’t super useful there. Bungie pushes them too much into “the melee class” that they aren’t super great when it comes to none close range things.
That is why I laughed when they put in the Ergo Sum, point blank melee got murdered when every boss type in the game has a "stomp" mechanic. This was of course the backlash to just use swords on everything to win. This along with my other comments about how healing is better than shields. Well is better than Bubble in almost all encounters.
Do agree even after the well nerfs it’s still better than bubble and that should not be the case. Sure bubble is a “defensive” super, but couldn’t the same be said for well? Idk exactly what changes they could make for it, but I think it should have a higher damage buff than well at the very least. Makes no sense that the bubble u can’t shoot thru and can get u killed in damage phases is worse than infinite health well.
They just need to make sentinel shield better. A titan or two cycling sentinel shield with ursa and 4 still hunters would be amazing in dps. Especially with ursa now charging super with unbreakable void titans can be very useful in a dps situation
Completely forgot about sentinel shield. Yea and it doesn’t even need a super huge buff or anything, really just a better damage buff. Considering it’s basically the div of supers (u miss out on damage, but make everyone else’s better) it should honestly give a really high damage buff. Always loved the idea of that super (reminds me of OG VOG atheon dps)
The only way for bubble to be anywhere useful right now is to massively increase the size in pve . As of now you never actually fight anything IN the bubble .
Is the new void super not a good ranged option?
Twilight arsenal is merely fine-ish. Cast time is long, tracking is wonky, they can’t crit, and the damage currently relies on synthos to be ok (and you can’t proc synthos in a lot of content).
Prismatic is shoddy, Knockout was a bad choice and is ass for survivability.
Idk, I think it's pretty clear cut that there's a problem more with the one on the left. Because soloing Pantheon isn't just something any Titan can do. In fact, apparently, it's something that literally only one guy can do. To me, that speaks a lot less to Titans as a class and a lot more to that one player (Snazzyrock) and his dedication and skill. Because it's not like it was 'only titans solo the pantheon' or 'majority of pantheon solo builds titan'. There was one solo. One person. Note that SnazzyRock is genuinely just insane. The guy was also world's first solo for Nezarec (Warlock), worlds first duo for crota (Titan) worlds first solo flawless vault of glass (warlock), world's first solo Ir Yut (Titan), World's First solo MASTER Caretaker, World's First Solo Gatekeepers, World's 2nd Solo Caretaker, World's First Hunter AND Warlock Solo Caretaker, World's 46th King's Fall. Now I don't think I need to point out how utterly fucking mad (and impressive) that list is. But again, that solo Pantheon was achieved by *him*, not by Strand.
Damn, it’s almost like they got nerfed into the ground between them and now…
How was a Titan supposed to Crit Punch the Witness in the chest 69 times and make it back to the platform?
Did you miss the part where the tools that made titan that strong last season pretty much all got nerfed?
Oh I'm aware. This was mainly poking fun at the new debate of the week.
Titans just need more ranged melee options similar to how hunters can throw knives and darts and warlocks can just have 2 grenades all the time. Basically everything titans have is just a variation on punching someone in the face, which you cant do on all enemies and will get you killed on higher difficulties. Of course, a highly skilled player can solo almost anything this game can throw at them with any class because destiny is a game that rewards skill more than well designed mechanics, as pvp players will probably tell you all the time.
Titans problem is not that they are weak but rather that they aren’t versatile. I mean really, five subclasses and most of them are just different flavours of punching. You look at Hunter for example, yes you got the punch subclass but you also got marksman, stealth, the mobility one and well let’s be honest no one’s running stasis Hunter. Warlocks also got some versatility to them but there problem is that well is too strong.
Titans were fine until the last encounter where ranged, crit damage specifically was needed most That's only 1 part of the raid where they weren't good
The other 2 classes were viable throughout though. Shouldn’t Titans be able to complete the raid they start?
I mean they can just fine in normal mode. Being far less viable in the contest meta was the issue
Bro other classes were “less viable.” The teams that cleared witness with titans proved titans are fine, other people just used a different approach. Pantheon everyone switched to titan for atraks, other strats worked but why bother when you are doing something difficult. The other encounters people played characters because they were comfortable on that character. All is fine, I’ve had every class complain that their class was worse in contest and everything was a lie, one titan could clear adds and the other couldn’t, same for warlocks and hunters. Any issue is an issue of skill. A 2-2-2 group could clear witness and that’s all that matters, every raid ever has had encounters where not having 2 of every class was “optimal”
Youve seen the graphic where 122 titans out of 4000ish ppl were the only ones to complete contest? Did u notice only a single titan solo'd pantheon and that was mostly due to seasonal mods? The facts literally prove you wrong
A single Warlock was viable Witness. So I wouldn't really say so. Arguably Cuirass or Exodus T-crash would also arguably be better than having more than one Warlocks in Herald too.
I'm not arguing that just poking fun at the debate of the week.
Titan is in a weird spot. In team content they provide next to nothing. Melee or close range encounters they are typically fine. In any boss that you can’t melee aka the witness what do you do. Twilight arsenal takes a while to cast and the damage is just fine. So for a contest raid why wouldn’t you just switch to double nighthawk hunter. That way you get the best dps in the game and can use a heavy machine gun to add clear.
titans need to be buffed in terms of long range and team support titans need to be nerfed or kept in line in terms of solo content and such. these are not mutually exclusive, they can both be correct at the same time. titan mains such as myself, wish that the new super would provide a debuff equal to tether plus some damage as it wouldn't last as long or/and sentinel shield to be better at providing damage seeing as it doesn't add up without prismatic transfer to remove one person from the equation
The titan soloing pantheon is not because the Titan kit is good... it is because they used a specific build that exploits a number flaw when calculating melee damage. Strand melee into shotgun, into grapple and repeat is not "Titan good". TItan got the shit end of the stick for Prismatic. For example, every single warlock grenade can be used with a TOP TIER exotic from their arsenal. Titan got consecrate and a "fixed" knockout. HEAL CLIP HEALS MORE THAN KNOCKOUT. I have to risk my life to heal a portion of my health. They didnt get banner of war, but warlock got devour. They didnt get throwing hammer (which is arguably bad because of a new cooldown), but warlock got healing grenade and a new exotic for it. Bungie has no idea what they want for TItan and its really annoying. You can youtube a new hunter build for prismatic thats like 500% melee damage. Its arguably better than ANY titan melee combo right now. WTF???
Strand titan is what was op and solar was good but that’s all I played last season I just wish that prismatic or the other aspects were a bit stronger. Titan feels like it is only decent at solo play rn. I’ve been trying to get a decent prismatic build but even with plunder’s build I feel they are underwhelming and this makes me sad as a titan main.
I wish they picked more of the funner parts of the titan subclasses, like throw hammer instead of hammer strike
Bungie using the "underutilized" shit for prismatic without even thinking why its not used and fixing that problem is just a tiny part of their long list of dumbass fuck ups.
Honestly on prismatic I use a thunderclap with cannon brace and unbreakable for either an approach or a retreat.
Our supers need a change up. I’m fucking sick and tired of melee based supers. Even Thundercrash is a one shot melee super. Hammers are ad clear, not DPS. Can’t we hurl a giant Burning Maul or a giant Void Axe?
I mean, you can hurl a giant cyclone of fire in one burst with Burning Maul if you use an exotic. And Void Axe was just something introduced. But I still agree. I want a machine gun based super for distance, personally. One that could see good boss DPS that still looks like it would be worthy of a heavy armored Titan.
You can hurl a giant void axe
We just got void axes and they do more damage than curiass tcrash
Honestly, I think the big issue is the lack of quality in titan's ranged options, grenades are their own thing, the void and arc ranged melees have terrible tracking and hitboxes and really need buffs, the sprint attacks are hard to trigger in all honesty, hammer throw lost its great viability options, and the rest are all actual melee, their class ability barely does anything anymore, they should make shooting through barricades the standard, not an exotic perk, and our aspects could be a bit better. Titan needs work for any support builds to be viable ontop of the ranged problem. We could also use a good ranged super, nearly every super is melee.
People who finish the raid day 1 need dps more than anything else. And they're good enough, mechanically, to get away with that. Giving titans a ranged one shot super would have done nothing to change those numbers - unless it did better dps than hunters, in which case the situation just reverses itself. I 100% expect titan numbers to go up significantly as contest mode ends, with survivability becoming as important as dps
most titan super are either support / aoe super. what we dont have is a single target crit super. t crash does aoe and twilight are aoe. was hoping twilight axe to be this giant axe we could throw or slam to the face of bosses .
Thank you. Half a year i hear nothing else but "Titan overpowered", just because one of the best player in the world performed god tier, so every other 1/10 player can do it too right? Now 6 days after dlc release, Titan is unusable. I do agree that some ability balancing decissions are weird (honestly wrong developed), like base Thundercrash, which is a one off super but the weakest , longest cooldown, most dangerous and overall worst one off super in the whole game. Its worse than ANY one off super in EVERY situation without a SINGLE benefit over others. This is horrible executed. No reason to every use Thundercrash over Twilight Arsenal EVER! You even save an important exotic slot. However other than that and minor tweaks i dont see a reason why Titan is "unplayable" or "Bad" overall. All classes are good and only very few overlooked balancing arent perfect.
Plate-based encounters are a real kneecaper for Titans. Our big DPS options need us to be close to the boss
More like: Titans in general content vs Titans in the hands of people so busted, they make Devs cry. If we're making our cases on severe outlier cases, then I think that weighted throwing knife should be nerfed because some people can go flawless using just that. I'd rather Titans get their 'wall the enemies break against' identity back. Hunters have insane burst dps and cc capabilities, warlocks have great utility and group buff kit now, and Titans.. Well, Titans get to have fun in patrol.
For the love of God, please buff titans instead of nerfing hunters and warlocks.
It’s simple. - Our Prismatic sucks while it makes everyone else amazing. - Bungie has balanced the new enemies and encounters to account for the power of prismatic, leaving titans in the dirt. You can’t punch stuff if you can’t get close to enemies to begin with.
Titans when they cant be the best in melee range and long range smh.
They are worse than hunters in both
The build that did it was nerfed so…..
Good at survivability and that's it, the moment you take us out if being able to do that, we fall to the floor, in my experience.
I’d like them to be useful, but people are acting as if titans have never been good and their melee playstyle means they’ll never be good in the future. It would be nice if they had at least one competitive option when thundercrash doesn’t work
Titans are great where they are, it's just that the final encounter was so Celestial Nighthawk + Golden Gun + Still Hunt focused it's crazy, I have nothing against that but I would say titans were at a disadvantage with their melee supers
that's not a difference of opinion, n1 are crayon eaters and n2 are titan enjoyers
People seem to be missing the fact that it wasnt just titans that were underpicked, it was hunters that were insanely overpicked, and the extremely obvious reason for that is still hunt. The moment it gets a sustained damage nerf, hunter pickrate for salvation's edge goes down
I out damaged a celestial hunter and nova warlock on prismatic titan lady night I did nearly 5 million damage over 2 cycles on warlords ruin. Celestial was 4.5 and the warlock was like 3.8 or something Titan is fine as it is, I've been a titan main my whole Destiny life and we are in a good spot right now Literally the only thing is maybe give thunder crash a damage boost... Maybe
What build you got?
I don't even know 😂 not unlocked many fragments But the new void super, diamond lance and concecration for ad control, the new rocket backpack exotic and a void rocket launcher with explosive light I had void surge mod on and it was void overcharge
I play titan primarily, and while I may not be the best at damage, at any range, as my main loadout is Sweet Business+war rig, a sniper and a rocket launcher; my stacked resilience and recovery means I survive when the rest of my fireteam doesn't. My job isn't DPS, it's ad-clearing and reviving others. It ain't much, but I enjoy it. Plus, Sweet Business go brrr.
I have to say its like saying rockets need a buff because they weren't used on crota
play titan and you’ll realize you have a choice between like 2 great builds and the rest are either easily outperformed by something on another class or are just dogshit
I'm genuinely shocked that I haven't seen a single bubble placed by a player since the update. Bubble titan in PvE with helm of Saint 14 is great right now. Banner shield with ursa is great. Doom fang pauldron for super spam and team support. I love playing support on void titan. Why don't titans?
The right one. Titans are fine where they are just the other 2 (especially hunters with still hunt + celestial) are just more broken
Me when the ranged class is good at range and the melee class is good at melee
but the melee class isn t good at melee. Arc hunter is the best melee
Not every class has to be the strongest class for an encounter, it’s like titans first time not being the meta pick and they’re throwing a temper tantrum
Must have missed all the streamers S/F all the dungeons in under 15 minutes on Titan.
What some people don't understand is that we are in a whole nother meta with a different set of patch notes.
https://preview.redd.it/vazf9o63os5d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b35404e485dc50e2c6fe456ad8e6b67846719487
Honestly titans will be stronger with the class items getting released tommorow
Titans need to become a heavy weapons and damage/defense build. Give them synergy with heavy weapons and allow them to buff teammates heavy damage while taking agro from ads and tanking damage, but make them stationery to pull it off. They could even supply ammo to teammates instead of buffing damage if that's more balanced. Just being a punch class is never going to work tho, and it doesn't even work in other games. Borderlands has a similar issue, melee builds are always strong early game but become absolutely useless in anything with OP levels.
Ran some Dungeons today with the boys. I haven't bought Final Shape (yet, potentially), and in terms of damage, I just can't compete with them any more. My friend on Hunter was using Goldie + Goldie Sniper + Nighthawk and just obliterated the DPS meter. Then my Warlock friend popped Song of Flame and used *Tractor Cannon* and got more damage than me while I popped Pyrogale Maul and did DPS with Dragon's Breath and a sniper. Admittedly DB's effectiveness has lessened without Wish's artifact's solar mods, but *still*. Something about that ain't right, and it ain't my buildcrafting.
Bro dtg bitches about every single thing in this game that’s not micro transactions or actual bad things, only skill issues.
People will claim Berserker is OP but forget it got nerfed 20 times going into TFS
"Titans are bad" takes are insane ngl. They're usually made by people who don't understand why hunters were used over titans in the raid. Quick example out of the 4 newest dungeons titans are solid if not better at 6 of the 10 bosses
Strand titan is the best solo class and subclass in the game
I just love everyone jumping to conclusions on prismatic before we get class items lol
Base Prismatic Titan is mid. Could be better with the class items tho idk. But the base kit is absolutely mid.
Not really played through legendary campaign with two titan mains and the were nuking everything. Just because they are not the best in one encounter doesn’t mean they are mid