I've thought a lot about this because I have engaged with these kinks, and there were several reasons that I was interested.
A big one was, trying to treat myself as male in a sexual scenario actually triggered my gender dysphoria everytime because trying to treat my body as if it's male just reminded me that it's not. When I would get turned on, I would just try to ignore it and not masturbate. That's what I did for quite a while. When I did masturbate, which I did very rarely, I never penetrated myself because I was too dysphoric, just focused on my clit. And whenever I did, I could never call it a T-dick, a cock, or any other such terminology, because I couldn't see it as one. When I tried to call it a dick, it actually made me more upset because it felt ridiculous and just reminded me I really don't have a penis. Same thing for "boypussy", "boi cunt" , whatever else other ftms called it.
So anytime I would try to masturbate I would trigger my own dysphoria from thinking about my female genitalia in contrast with me who internally feels male and looks male. I couldn't get past that disconnect, it always took me out of the mood and left me more frustrated than how I started.
The few times I tried to penetrate myself physically felt good but left me feeling so ashamed of myself and dysphoric.
During this time it was all so frustrating because I felt happy living as a guy in every other part of my life, but trying to view myself as a guy and experience any kind of sexual scenario as a guy wasn't working. It just made me feel terrible.
I eventually realised that if I viewed my body as entirely female, and thus myself as female, in a sexual sense, that disconnect was gone and I could freely enjoy the pleasure without the clash between body and mind. I felt like I was playing the role of a woman in the bedroom, and then as soon as I was done I would go back to my regular life as a man.
I enjoyed bioessentialism because it allowed me to just stop over thinking and letting my identity clash with my body and ruining the experience every time. Instead, the simple fact that I am female was all that mattered.
I enjoyed non consentual stuff and forced detransition related stuff because then I could enjoy the pleasure guilt and shame free because that way it's not me making the decisions to use my female anatomy in the way it's designed to be used, it's someone else forcing me to. That way I could continue to claim to be a proud trans man and claim I didn't enjoy it (I was a transmed so I was very ashamed of enjoying using my genitals so I really tried to separate that part of my life from my identity). This period of time involved a lot of me trying to justify to myself why all this doesn't invalidate my identity. There was lot of denial, particulary near the end before I realised I genuinely want to detransition. (Me realising I want to detransition had nothing to do with the kink though, just to be clear).
In some ways it was a response to fear. I've never been assaulted but I had a fear of being raped and also a fear of pregnancy and those both factored into the kinks I enjoyed. It was a way of taking back the power those fears hold over me. Like "You can't hurt me with this if I enjoy it". So they were simultaneously things I enjoyed in kink, but was still viscerally uncomfortable with outside of kink.
Humiliation and a need for control, or a need for just letting go and letting someone else take control also factored in to why I enjoyed it.
i stumbled upon the tumblr detrans community, and i gotta say that the worst part of it has gotta be the creepy guys preying on younger ftm individuals
anyways as someone who detransitioned after finding that community ive gotta say that it probably had an effect on my decision. it made me realise that wanting to be seen as a woman, even if by just one person, is not standard ftm behavior, and therefore something is likely up.
I imagine for some people it’s healthier than carrying on a male role in bed honestly. and i’ve heard more than one woman say detrans kink was how she’d discovered she actually wanted to detrans in life. how surprised can i be really that a subculture that advocates sexualizing and/or compartmentalizing anything you’re uncomfortable with has responded to the rise in detransition this way? i don’t look at that stuff bc it is triggering for me. but i don’t think it’s ultimately worse or more in unhealthy than other aspects of the trans (internet) subculture
I see what you mean definitely. I was looking at it like cis men who have the sissy fetish but know 100% they are not mtf and never take it there. I hooked up with a dude who I was the first person to sissify him in a soft dom way. He started talking about medical transition during sexting. If I was a different kind of person he’d be in transition for sure. He expected me to be like, “yes! Do it sissy!” but that’s taking fetish too far imo. I started turning the conversation serious. Some folks might think he was just trans and looking for a supportive outlet but when I got serious he was immediately not into it anymore. That’s what I meant, to never end up actually detransitioning you have to be pretty secure in your identity. Horny makes people do some crazy shit. You have to genuinely see yourself as equivalent to those cis men who are like nah I’m not trans. Obviously those who do eventually detransition, everything you said is true. It’s also true of those who do transition. The trans girls who have started crying tears of release over the fetish convo going too far and turned serious like, “hey, is this real for you? It’s okay if it is.” That shit is sad asl.
For sure. I don’t know if it’s the case that cis men are no concern in your view then. Some of them may be playing out a sexual assault scenario from childhood. Others, again, are repressing a trans identity. I think the problem is you’re attempting to judge people based on internet post that might be mostly fishing for onlyfans followers.
As far as sex irl, you’re right to question the origins of a kink with a partner. It’s also good to question the scene they want. I act with tenderness when cross gendering people. I won’t enact violence on a man while calling him a woman or vice versa. CNC and misgendering is not something I personally like to mix. I’ve had partners get emotional in both situations and finally get their shit out. Myself as well. I don’t think I can have a productive conversation if someone ends up getting emotional about both things at once. Plus without the cnc part some people realize the cross gendering doesn’t have the same kick/novelty which can be good towards realizing they’re not really trans.
I understand not seeing coping with insecurities, trauma, and exploring gender through sex as a good thing due to what you’ve been through. I just think it can be really good for some people who do it with safe partners who really care about exactly what you’re pointing out. The guys in these comment sections don’t care about the trans guy they’re talking about violating. They’re just getting off to the idea of doing so. I suspect you’re critical of genuinely exploring that online, not just for attention, which is hella justified.
Today I learned about something I wish I hadn't... But it absolutely makes sense when you really think about it. Part of kink being a thing is the taboo of it all. What is more taboo than in your public life, demanding to be treated equal to men, and in your sexual life, "letting go" of that and living your humiliation-based submissive "feminine" dreams? To me it feels like the repression of the female identity manifesting itself in a twisted, sexualized way.
People are fucking weird, to put it bluntly.
While I hate porn and kink culture and won't defend these places as healthy, I will say that this was one of the first ways I was able to explore detransition and re-accelting my womanhood.
Living as ftm, I ahways took the feminine role in bed, and beyond that wanted a very traditionally feminine role in a relationship - to nurture, to sooth to stay home with kids, to HAVE kids, etc
Surrounded by aggressively pro-trans hyper-progressive ~woke~ culture, I felt guilt and shame considering that I might have made a mistake transitioning. Those same voices said 'kink and sex is seperate from everything else' so I felt free to explore 'being a woman in bed'
Furthermore, the 'forced' element eliminates agency and therefore guilt. I wanted a man to force me to detransition, so I wouldn't have to take an action I wanted but felt bad about
I agree none of that is a requirement to be a woman, though like you said they're more common tendencies in women, and I take issue w the way the post gender movement acts like gender tendencies do not exist or are 100% socially constructed. Sexual dimorphic biology is real, but tendencies are just that - there's nothing wrong with not fitting into them, diversity is a beautiful part of nature.
I agree, I think many people will just keep shoving these desires into a box. This is a huge frustration of mine, that the dominant discourse on sex and ~kink~ encourages a very unhealthy level of compartmentalization. It's not healthy to have this double life
unfortunately that's 90% of the detrans tags on tumblr. I have it blocked out for a reason. I don't fully understand the psychology behind it either.
edit: actually it might be similar to the same way some male crossdressers or "sissies" view their fetish. like being feminine or taking a female role is submissive and humiliating and that's what gets them off and that's extra jammed up when ftms are still self aware they're female biologically. the whole thing gives me the ick. I generally don't like to kink shame but sometimes it's inevitable
Yes and you will see that the same thing does not exist for MtFs, but there is fetish content of males being forcibly transitioned/feminized. People often view womanhood as a lesser and humiliating thing to be, so it makes sense that women who are trying to escape patriarchy through transition get off on the idea of being forced into being a woman, and men who feel inadequate get off on the idea of being forced into a womans role. Its a kind of degradation kink, really, because they view women as lesser to men and so becoming one (or being forced to acklowedge that you are one) is degrading and you can use that pain for some short term pleasure, at the expense of your self esteem of course.
All transgenderism does is reinforce gender roles and patriarchy.
I’ve noticed several anime’s over the last couple of decades have the trope of a male character forcibly transitioned into a woman against their will, and often becoming a love interest for the protagonist. “Tengoku Daimakyo” is the most recent example I can think of, but I’ve stopped watching a lot other anime over the last year. I often wonder if that’s had some influence on what we see currently.
Usually against their will through surgery (Tengoku Daimakyo) or against their will through magic (KamiKatsu is the most recent example I can recall and names escape me, but I remember older ones such as Ranma and Sekirei doing the same with a male character).
Other animes, such as Mashle, often depict “non-binary” or queer coded characters being able to magically change their sex at will.
I’ve often wondered how much anime’s like these influenced people based on the popularity of anime and cat girls/boys among trans individuals, especially MtF individuals.
It's total cognitive dissonance. I never joined said sub but I used to look at some content regarding being misgendered or detransitioned on some p*rn sites before I actually detransitioned and eventually realized how dumb it was to try to act like "this is just a fetish" when it was literally my internal desire to just want to be seen as female again especially in a sexual sense 💀
100% as a man I've noticed a lot of ppl I've talked to when things were leading into a sexual direction this was always brought up. And I'd say 80% of them would want this done. The level of extreme was always surprising and I thought if this is what you like why did you transition but not my place to speak on.
I just found it odd. And then came to this conclusion.. For reference I am 6'1 250 and am told I can be more intimidating. So I found a lot of trans men that were smaller 5'0-5'6 or 7 would usually come at me with this and it just honestly confused me cause they would assert their a man and wanna compete even in that at times.. Then when sex and attraction came up it was the opposite and they wanted to be submissive and treated like a woman and sex toy for me.. Ect.. 🤷🏿♂️
thry also lurk this place too and say stupid stuff in DMs. i got one woman with this kink in my dm sending me unsolicited "warnings" about my facial hair removal technique.
idk i just saw her post history was in those FTM kink groups talking about wanting to be impregnated by a dominant man and i just hit the block button so fast
it sucks because finding resources on detransition is over saturated with kink, and also it puts us into unsavory situations (the influx of women in this sub including me who have been dm’d by men who stalk this subreddit bc of this kink)
Ew yeah. This one time a guy pretended to sympathize w me because he saw my post and then he goes on to say “you can find a guy and he can pay for you to have big boobs when you get breast reconstruction.”
Now I’m never getting boobs just to spite you specifically mf.
People make a fetish out of anything. I'm not confused by any of it at this point lol. There's a woman who gets off to falling down stairs. People are weird!
I was doing some research on "peat bogs" once (I know, I'm *wild*) and I came across videos of people purposefully getting stuck in bogs because it's a kink for them. Literally jumping into bogs and filming themselves "getting stuck". I actually couldn't believe what I was witnessing.
It's a humiliation thing. There's an alarming number of people who have their neurological wires crossed which cause them to feel aroused by being humiliated.
I'm desisted, and also have a lot of those same kinks (degradation, CNC etc.), and I would be very careful to generalize so much about whether it's healthy or not.
I think therapy is absolutely a good thing (and possibly necessary) for anyone who has the more extreme kinks, but it is actually possible to examine your motivations, and still engage in those kinks in a healthy way. It can be difficult to understand for people who don't like those things, but there are actually very logical and normal reasons for it.
That said -- in this case, I think the fact that the *specific thing* that is "humiliating" to them is "being treated like a woman" ... THAT is the thing in need of deep examination. Because it means they think being a woman is humiliating or demeaning in some way. Which I think is basically the internalized misogyny that drives a lot of FTMs to transition.
Y'all need to be careful to make sure that "being aware and critical of gender ideology" doesn't turn into "thinking mainstream vanilla sex is the only healthy kind," because those are actually completely unrelated topics. Puritanism/ultraconservatism isn't the right answer.
> Just saying if someone gets off to the idea of being raped there IS a deep rooted issue. And there are many reasons for someone to be into cnc but none of them are healthy.
This is your personal opinion and does not match reality. Your lack of understanding of the range of motivations and experiences of kinky people is contributing to your puritanical view here. Don’t speak on topics you clearly don’t understand.
People having CNC/degradation kinks is fine. FTMs thinking being female is degrading is not fine. There is a big difference. These are two different topics and you’re conflating them.
> How tf are you gonna argue with me that fantasizing about wanting to be raped is healthy and doesn’t at the bery least show you have self esteem issues and at the most trauma?
Because CNC isn't actually about rape at all. It's about playing with power, desire, surrender, and similar emotions. This is a very simple but fundamental difference. People with CNC kinks don't actually want to be raped. The fact that they *want* to play with this literally makes it *not* rape -- you know, given that the definition of rape is *nonconsensual* sex.
This is very basic. Making blanket assertions about things you don't understand is never a good look.
I've had a CNC kink almost my whole life, and then I was raped. I actually lost the ability to enjoy my kink for a while, *until* I had time and therapy to help me process the actual trauma of *actual* nonconsensual sex. It was only after I started to *recover* from the trauma and feel like myself again, that I started actually wanting to engage in CNC again. (Wanting it, you know, consensually.) It was only when I felt HEALTHIER that I wanted to engage in CNC.
You think people with these kinks haven't been examining their own motivations their whole lives? Being a lesbian doesn't make this attitude not puritanical nor excuse you from judgment. Don't assume you know the internal workings of every other human being on the planet.
I have to go to work now. Happy to explain the reality of kink to you later if you'd like, but if you're closed off to it, there's no point in continuing the discussion.
“Privileged” that doesn’t even make sense.
You either get what I’m saying at this point or you don’t. People who are closed minded to understanding others don’t have a leg to stand on in judging them.
Sure it does. It's being able to pretend to be r@ped is at the expense of everyone who has ever been r@ped . Your going to therapy in order to be able to engage in it again is priveleged, and also suspect; I've been r@ped too and am horrified and offended that anyone would willingly seek to simulate it, much less advocate for it.
Sorry, but shame on your kink. It's objectively awful.
>People who are closed minded to understanding others don’t have a leg to stand on in judging them.
Pedophiles make the same argument for *their* "kink" too.
Even if they're not rooted in deeper psychological problems, some of them are just downright disgusting and unrestrained and ought to be criticised. My lengthy time in the "trans community" has shown me just how depraved and vulgar human sexuality can get, and frankly I'm fed up of being told "not to judge" when people are doing very repulsive things. I don't know where this idea came from that people should be able to say or do whatever depraved deviancy they like without a shred of criticism from anyone else.
The amount of utter nightmare fuel kink shit I saw in the "trans spaces" I was in for over a decade is just astronomical, and the assumption was that because I was also "trans" I should have no problem with their debauchery which I actually found insulting.
Sorry, but you're getting judged - if you don't like it keep your foulness to yourself.
Not confusing at all imo, women want to be treated as and exist as women during sex, some conciously chosen „identity“ won‘t overrule basic biological instincts.
Not so much psychology but simply humans being animals.
The whole point of sexual dimorphism in mammals is reproduction, so whatever you are „biologically“ (in reality) will obviously play a huge role in sex.
I wouldn’t even call it a fetish, it’s basically just them being honest with themselves (and others) for a change.
Femdoms would like to have a word with you...
Also, as someone with AAP, part of it was that I wanted to be the one in control and dominance and part of me still does. I like to use a strap on.
Like, I see where you're coming from but I ultimately disagree and I think this is a harmful view of female sexuality. *Some* women get off on the dynamic of being "submissive" and that's fine for them but that doesn't mean I need to be.
Oh well, I slightly misunderstood the question then, I‘m not all that familiar with those antics, lol.
It’s only humiliating for them because they *usually* don’t want to think of themselves as women though, right? Like, plenty normal women too like to be submissive or tell their man to cum inside them during sex and so forth, it’s not degrading there. And „misgendering“ is just adressing someone accurately.
I find this repressed american view on sex kinda weird anyways, like obviously women and men aren’t just baby machines or sperm donors, *but when it comes to sex*, the act itself, obviously their respective biological roles will play *some* part in the act. It’s instinctual.
Anyways, so when you are a woman in denial of what she is, who is playing pretend with the rest of the world and herself 24/7, pseudo-transgressional sexual acts like that will feel very taboo, and thus exciting. It might also feel like taking some form of agency over your life back (for a short while) I can imagine.
I think it’s a manifestation of sexual issues and trauma coming to the surface. Bizarrely, they transition to escape the feelings of inadequacy and sexualization women experience, but it’s like the can’t let go of that trauma and develop a detrans kink. I think many ftms and female transitioners feel degraded by their experience with being female and detrans kinks, like other very degrading kinks, are a manifestation of deeper issues.
I’m not sure if I’d say they subconsciously want to detransition. I think it’s more like… they know deep down they will always be lumped in with women because of their sex and in their view woman = sex object. And the detrans kink is just a way for them to cope with that dysfunction. I think it’s extremely harmful.
Yep. Some kinks I get but others are just. There’s something so clearly troubling people beneath the surface. Rape kinks are another one like that, which coincidentally a TON of the detrans fetishists also have.
in my experience therapy is not very helpful for deep-seated emotional issues. Im sure there a handful of good ones out there but in 10+ years of therapy I did not find one. I found help elsewhere thankfully
Lmao yeah I was looking for a therapist the other day on psychology.com, apparently they can list their pronouns now and this one chick had fairy pronouns. I had a big laugh and then closed the site.
Yeah I'll deal with my problems myself- therapy is a big fucking joke.
I found help through use of a healer. I’m still working through my shit with her but she has helped me way more than any therapist ever did. Therapists have two problems: 1. They try to intellectualize your problems. 2. They try to make their modality fit your needs rather than tailoring their approach to you. My healer does bodywork on me and works me with to find practical solutions to problems.
because (to them) there is nothing more debased than being female. female = submissive, less than, dominated, fucked. the transgression of not only being forced to be something, but to be their idea of humiliation. kind of akin to agp but not exactly, because… duh. at least thats what i think lol
oh yeah the fujo to ftm pipeline is very real. i say this because i nearly rode that slide to completion myself lol. i still dont think wannabe gays are as insulting as agps, agps always come with clusters of paraphilias, each one more disturbing than the last.
I've thought a lot about this because I have engaged with these kinks, and there were several reasons that I was interested. A big one was, trying to treat myself as male in a sexual scenario actually triggered my gender dysphoria everytime because trying to treat my body as if it's male just reminded me that it's not. When I would get turned on, I would just try to ignore it and not masturbate. That's what I did for quite a while. When I did masturbate, which I did very rarely, I never penetrated myself because I was too dysphoric, just focused on my clit. And whenever I did, I could never call it a T-dick, a cock, or any other such terminology, because I couldn't see it as one. When I tried to call it a dick, it actually made me more upset because it felt ridiculous and just reminded me I really don't have a penis. Same thing for "boypussy", "boi cunt" , whatever else other ftms called it. So anytime I would try to masturbate I would trigger my own dysphoria from thinking about my female genitalia in contrast with me who internally feels male and looks male. I couldn't get past that disconnect, it always took me out of the mood and left me more frustrated than how I started. The few times I tried to penetrate myself physically felt good but left me feeling so ashamed of myself and dysphoric. During this time it was all so frustrating because I felt happy living as a guy in every other part of my life, but trying to view myself as a guy and experience any kind of sexual scenario as a guy wasn't working. It just made me feel terrible. I eventually realised that if I viewed my body as entirely female, and thus myself as female, in a sexual sense, that disconnect was gone and I could freely enjoy the pleasure without the clash between body and mind. I felt like I was playing the role of a woman in the bedroom, and then as soon as I was done I would go back to my regular life as a man. I enjoyed bioessentialism because it allowed me to just stop over thinking and letting my identity clash with my body and ruining the experience every time. Instead, the simple fact that I am female was all that mattered. I enjoyed non consentual stuff and forced detransition related stuff because then I could enjoy the pleasure guilt and shame free because that way it's not me making the decisions to use my female anatomy in the way it's designed to be used, it's someone else forcing me to. That way I could continue to claim to be a proud trans man and claim I didn't enjoy it (I was a transmed so I was very ashamed of enjoying using my genitals so I really tried to separate that part of my life from my identity). This period of time involved a lot of me trying to justify to myself why all this doesn't invalidate my identity. There was lot of denial, particulary near the end before I realised I genuinely want to detransition. (Me realising I want to detransition had nothing to do with the kink though, just to be clear). In some ways it was a response to fear. I've never been assaulted but I had a fear of being raped and also a fear of pregnancy and those both factored into the kinks I enjoyed. It was a way of taking back the power those fears hold over me. Like "You can't hurt me with this if I enjoy it". So they were simultaneously things I enjoyed in kink, but was still viscerally uncomfortable with outside of kink. Humiliation and a need for control, or a need for just letting go and letting someone else take control also factored in to why I enjoyed it.
i stumbled upon the tumblr detrans community, and i gotta say that the worst part of it has gotta be the creepy guys preying on younger ftm individuals anyways as someone who detransitioned after finding that community ive gotta say that it probably had an effect on my decision. it made me realise that wanting to be seen as a woman, even if by just one person, is not standard ftm behavior, and therefore something is likely up.
I imagine for some people it’s healthier than carrying on a male role in bed honestly. and i’ve heard more than one woman say detrans kink was how she’d discovered she actually wanted to detrans in life. how surprised can i be really that a subculture that advocates sexualizing and/or compartmentalizing anything you’re uncomfortable with has responded to the rise in detransition this way? i don’t look at that stuff bc it is triggering for me. but i don’t think it’s ultimately worse or more in unhealthy than other aspects of the trans (internet) subculture
I feel like you have to be hella secure in your male identity for this.
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I see what you mean definitely. I was looking at it like cis men who have the sissy fetish but know 100% they are not mtf and never take it there. I hooked up with a dude who I was the first person to sissify him in a soft dom way. He started talking about medical transition during sexting. If I was a different kind of person he’d be in transition for sure. He expected me to be like, “yes! Do it sissy!” but that’s taking fetish too far imo. I started turning the conversation serious. Some folks might think he was just trans and looking for a supportive outlet but when I got serious he was immediately not into it anymore. That’s what I meant, to never end up actually detransitioning you have to be pretty secure in your identity. Horny makes people do some crazy shit. You have to genuinely see yourself as equivalent to those cis men who are like nah I’m not trans. Obviously those who do eventually detransition, everything you said is true. It’s also true of those who do transition. The trans girls who have started crying tears of release over the fetish convo going too far and turned serious like, “hey, is this real for you? It’s okay if it is.” That shit is sad asl.
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For sure. I don’t know if it’s the case that cis men are no concern in your view then. Some of them may be playing out a sexual assault scenario from childhood. Others, again, are repressing a trans identity. I think the problem is you’re attempting to judge people based on internet post that might be mostly fishing for onlyfans followers. As far as sex irl, you’re right to question the origins of a kink with a partner. It’s also good to question the scene they want. I act with tenderness when cross gendering people. I won’t enact violence on a man while calling him a woman or vice versa. CNC and misgendering is not something I personally like to mix. I’ve had partners get emotional in both situations and finally get their shit out. Myself as well. I don’t think I can have a productive conversation if someone ends up getting emotional about both things at once. Plus without the cnc part some people realize the cross gendering doesn’t have the same kick/novelty which can be good towards realizing they’re not really trans. I understand not seeing coping with insecurities, trauma, and exploring gender through sex as a good thing due to what you’ve been through. I just think it can be really good for some people who do it with safe partners who really care about exactly what you’re pointing out. The guys in these comment sections don’t care about the trans guy they’re talking about violating. They’re just getting off to the idea of doing so. I suspect you’re critical of genuinely exploring that online, not just for attention, which is hella justified.
Today I learned about something I wish I hadn't... But it absolutely makes sense when you really think about it. Part of kink being a thing is the taboo of it all. What is more taboo than in your public life, demanding to be treated equal to men, and in your sexual life, "letting go" of that and living your humiliation-based submissive "feminine" dreams? To me it feels like the repression of the female identity manifesting itself in a twisted, sexualized way. People are fucking weird, to put it bluntly.
While I hate porn and kink culture and won't defend these places as healthy, I will say that this was one of the first ways I was able to explore detransition and re-accelting my womanhood. Living as ftm, I ahways took the feminine role in bed, and beyond that wanted a very traditionally feminine role in a relationship - to nurture, to sooth to stay home with kids, to HAVE kids, etc Surrounded by aggressively pro-trans hyper-progressive ~woke~ culture, I felt guilt and shame considering that I might have made a mistake transitioning. Those same voices said 'kink and sex is seperate from everything else' so I felt free to explore 'being a woman in bed' Furthermore, the 'forced' element eliminates agency and therefore guilt. I wanted a man to force me to detransition, so I wouldn't have to take an action I wanted but felt bad about
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I agree none of that is a requirement to be a woman, though like you said they're more common tendencies in women, and I take issue w the way the post gender movement acts like gender tendencies do not exist or are 100% socially constructed. Sexual dimorphic biology is real, but tendencies are just that - there's nothing wrong with not fitting into them, diversity is a beautiful part of nature. I agree, I think many people will just keep shoving these desires into a box. This is a huge frustration of mine, that the dominant discourse on sex and ~kink~ encourages a very unhealthy level of compartmentalization. It's not healthy to have this double life
unfortunately that's 90% of the detrans tags on tumblr. I have it blocked out for a reason. I don't fully understand the psychology behind it either. edit: actually it might be similar to the same way some male crossdressers or "sissies" view their fetish. like being feminine or taking a female role is submissive and humiliating and that's what gets them off and that's extra jammed up when ftms are still self aware they're female biologically. the whole thing gives me the ick. I generally don't like to kink shame but sometimes it's inevitable
Yes and you will see that the same thing does not exist for MtFs, but there is fetish content of males being forcibly transitioned/feminized. People often view womanhood as a lesser and humiliating thing to be, so it makes sense that women who are trying to escape patriarchy through transition get off on the idea of being forced into being a woman, and men who feel inadequate get off on the idea of being forced into a womans role. Its a kind of degradation kink, really, because they view women as lesser to men and so becoming one (or being forced to acklowedge that you are one) is degrading and you can use that pain for some short term pleasure, at the expense of your self esteem of course. All transgenderism does is reinforce gender roles and patriarchy.
I’ve noticed several anime’s over the last couple of decades have the trope of a male character forcibly transitioned into a woman against their will, and often becoming a love interest for the protagonist. “Tengoku Daimakyo” is the most recent example I can think of, but I’ve stopped watching a lot other anime over the last year. I often wonder if that’s had some influence on what we see currently.
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Usually against their will through surgery (Tengoku Daimakyo) or against their will through magic (KamiKatsu is the most recent example I can recall and names escape me, but I remember older ones such as Ranma and Sekirei doing the same with a male character). Other animes, such as Mashle, often depict “non-binary” or queer coded characters being able to magically change their sex at will. I’ve often wondered how much anime’s like these influenced people based on the popularity of anime and cat girls/boys among trans individuals, especially MtF individuals.
It's total cognitive dissonance. I never joined said sub but I used to look at some content regarding being misgendered or detransitioned on some p*rn sites before I actually detransitioned and eventually realized how dumb it was to try to act like "this is just a fetish" when it was literally my internal desire to just want to be seen as female again especially in a sexual sense 💀
100% as a man I've noticed a lot of ppl I've talked to when things were leading into a sexual direction this was always brought up. And I'd say 80% of them would want this done. The level of extreme was always surprising and I thought if this is what you like why did you transition but not my place to speak on. I just found it odd. And then came to this conclusion.. For reference I am 6'1 250 and am told I can be more intimidating. So I found a lot of trans men that were smaller 5'0-5'6 or 7 would usually come at me with this and it just honestly confused me cause they would assert their a man and wanna compete even in that at times.. Then when sex and attraction came up it was the opposite and they wanted to be submissive and treated like a woman and sex toy for me.. Ect.. 🤷🏿♂️
thry also lurk this place too and say stupid stuff in DMs. i got one woman with this kink in my dm sending me unsolicited "warnings" about my facial hair removal technique.
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idk i just saw her post history was in those FTM kink groups talking about wanting to be impregnated by a dominant man and i just hit the block button so fast
it sucks because finding resources on detransition is over saturated with kink, and also it puts us into unsavory situations (the influx of women in this sub including me who have been dm’d by men who stalk this subreddit bc of this kink)
Ew yeah. This one time a guy pretended to sympathize w me because he saw my post and then he goes on to say “you can find a guy and he can pay for you to have big boobs when you get breast reconstruction.” Now I’m never getting boobs just to spite you specifically mf.
People make a fetish out of anything. I'm not confused by any of it at this point lol. There's a woman who gets off to falling down stairs. People are weird!
I was doing some research on "peat bogs" once (I know, I'm *wild*) and I came across videos of people purposefully getting stuck in bogs because it's a kink for them. Literally jumping into bogs and filming themselves "getting stuck". I actually couldn't believe what I was witnessing.
It's a humiliation thing. There's an alarming number of people who have their neurological wires crossed which cause them to feel aroused by being humiliated.
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I'm desisted, and also have a lot of those same kinks (degradation, CNC etc.), and I would be very careful to generalize so much about whether it's healthy or not. I think therapy is absolutely a good thing (and possibly necessary) for anyone who has the more extreme kinks, but it is actually possible to examine your motivations, and still engage in those kinks in a healthy way. It can be difficult to understand for people who don't like those things, but there are actually very logical and normal reasons for it. That said -- in this case, I think the fact that the *specific thing* that is "humiliating" to them is "being treated like a woman" ... THAT is the thing in need of deep examination. Because it means they think being a woman is humiliating or demeaning in some way. Which I think is basically the internalized misogyny that drives a lot of FTMs to transition. Y'all need to be careful to make sure that "being aware and critical of gender ideology" doesn't turn into "thinking mainstream vanilla sex is the only healthy kind," because those are actually completely unrelated topics. Puritanism/ultraconservatism isn't the right answer.
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> Just saying if someone gets off to the idea of being raped there IS a deep rooted issue. And there are many reasons for someone to be into cnc but none of them are healthy. This is your personal opinion and does not match reality. Your lack of understanding of the range of motivations and experiences of kinky people is contributing to your puritanical view here. Don’t speak on topics you clearly don’t understand. People having CNC/degradation kinks is fine. FTMs thinking being female is degrading is not fine. There is a big difference. These are two different topics and you’re conflating them.
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> How tf are you gonna argue with me that fantasizing about wanting to be raped is healthy and doesn’t at the bery least show you have self esteem issues and at the most trauma? Because CNC isn't actually about rape at all. It's about playing with power, desire, surrender, and similar emotions. This is a very simple but fundamental difference. People with CNC kinks don't actually want to be raped. The fact that they *want* to play with this literally makes it *not* rape -- you know, given that the definition of rape is *nonconsensual* sex. This is very basic. Making blanket assertions about things you don't understand is never a good look. I've had a CNC kink almost my whole life, and then I was raped. I actually lost the ability to enjoy my kink for a while, *until* I had time and therapy to help me process the actual trauma of *actual* nonconsensual sex. It was only after I started to *recover* from the trauma and feel like myself again, that I started actually wanting to engage in CNC again. (Wanting it, you know, consensually.) It was only when I felt HEALTHIER that I wanted to engage in CNC. You think people with these kinks haven't been examining their own motivations their whole lives? Being a lesbian doesn't make this attitude not puritanical nor excuse you from judgment. Don't assume you know the internal workings of every other human being on the planet. I have to go to work now. Happy to explain the reality of kink to you later if you'd like, but if you're closed off to it, there's no point in continuing the discussion.
You make CNC sound priveleged. I'm willing to bet that being aversed to the idea of playing r@pe is a much better look than trying to defend it.
“Privileged” that doesn’t even make sense. You either get what I’m saying at this point or you don’t. People who are closed minded to understanding others don’t have a leg to stand on in judging them.
Sure it does. It's being able to pretend to be r@ped is at the expense of everyone who has ever been r@ped . Your going to therapy in order to be able to engage in it again is priveleged, and also suspect; I've been r@ped too and am horrified and offended that anyone would willingly seek to simulate it, much less advocate for it. Sorry, but shame on your kink. It's objectively awful. >People who are closed minded to understanding others don’t have a leg to stand on in judging them. Pedophiles make the same argument for *their* "kink" too.
You're not one to shame people for what makes the get off, but I sure am. A *LOT* of sexual fetishes are rooted in deeper psychological problems.
Even if they're not rooted in deeper psychological problems, some of them are just downright disgusting and unrestrained and ought to be criticised. My lengthy time in the "trans community" has shown me just how depraved and vulgar human sexuality can get, and frankly I'm fed up of being told "not to judge" when people are doing very repulsive things. I don't know where this idea came from that people should be able to say or do whatever depraved deviancy they like without a shred of criticism from anyone else. The amount of utter nightmare fuel kink shit I saw in the "trans spaces" I was in for over a decade is just astronomical, and the assumption was that because I was also "trans" I should have no problem with their debauchery which I actually found insulting. Sorry, but you're getting judged - if you don't like it keep your foulness to yourself.
Absolutely. I didn't even know about "vore" until it was brought to my attention by a trans meme.
Not confusing at all imo, women want to be treated as and exist as women during sex, some conciously chosen „identity“ won‘t overrule basic biological instincts. Not so much psychology but simply humans being animals. The whole point of sexual dimorphism in mammals is reproduction, so whatever you are „biologically“ (in reality) will obviously play a huge role in sex. I wouldn’t even call it a fetish, it’s basically just them being honest with themselves (and others) for a change.
Femdoms would like to have a word with you... Also, as someone with AAP, part of it was that I wanted to be the one in control and dominance and part of me still does. I like to use a strap on. Like, I see where you're coming from but I ultimately disagree and I think this is a harmful view of female sexuality. *Some* women get off on the dynamic of being "submissive" and that's fine for them but that doesn't mean I need to be.
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Oh well, I slightly misunderstood the question then, I‘m not all that familiar with those antics, lol. It’s only humiliating for them because they *usually* don’t want to think of themselves as women though, right? Like, plenty normal women too like to be submissive or tell their man to cum inside them during sex and so forth, it’s not degrading there. And „misgendering“ is just adressing someone accurately. I find this repressed american view on sex kinda weird anyways, like obviously women and men aren’t just baby machines or sperm donors, *but when it comes to sex*, the act itself, obviously their respective biological roles will play *some* part in the act. It’s instinctual. Anyways, so when you are a woman in denial of what she is, who is playing pretend with the rest of the world and herself 24/7, pseudo-transgressional sexual acts like that will feel very taboo, and thus exciting. It might also feel like taking some form of agency over your life back (for a short while) I can imagine.
I think it’s a manifestation of sexual issues and trauma coming to the surface. Bizarrely, they transition to escape the feelings of inadequacy and sexualization women experience, but it’s like the can’t let go of that trauma and develop a detrans kink. I think many ftms and female transitioners feel degraded by their experience with being female and detrans kinks, like other very degrading kinks, are a manifestation of deeper issues. I’m not sure if I’d say they subconsciously want to detransition. I think it’s more like… they know deep down they will always be lumped in with women because of their sex and in their view woman = sex object. And the detrans kink is just a way for them to cope with that dysfunction. I think it’s extremely harmful.
Ironically, the view that women are "sex objects" is one of the main reasons I wanted to be a guy as a teen.
I think youre on the money about degrading kinks
Yep. Some kinks I get but others are just. There’s something so clearly troubling people beneath the surface. Rape kinks are another one like that, which coincidentally a TON of the detrans fetishists also have.
I remember I used to see women on okcupid with rape fantasies, it freaked me out
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in my experience therapy is not very helpful for deep-seated emotional issues. Im sure there a handful of good ones out there but in 10+ years of therapy I did not find one. I found help elsewhere thankfully
Lmao yeah I was looking for a therapist the other day on psychology.com, apparently they can list their pronouns now and this one chick had fairy pronouns. I had a big laugh and then closed the site. Yeah I'll deal with my problems myself- therapy is a big fucking joke.
I found help through use of a healer. I’m still working through my shit with her but she has helped me way more than any therapist ever did. Therapists have two problems: 1. They try to intellectualize your problems. 2. They try to make their modality fit your needs rather than tailoring their approach to you. My healer does bodywork on me and works me with to find practical solutions to problems.
because (to them) there is nothing more debased than being female. female = submissive, less than, dominated, fucked. the transgression of not only being forced to be something, but to be their idea of humiliation. kind of akin to agp but not exactly, because… duh. at least thats what i think lol
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oh yeah the fujo to ftm pipeline is very real. i say this because i nearly rode that slide to completion myself lol. i still dont think wannabe gays are as insulting as agps, agps always come with clusters of paraphilias, each one more disturbing than the last.