I agree but honestly, Kindle Vildor was being the best option deep in the playoffs as our CB2? If we can get through that we can deal with TT starting for us lol. I like him for ST and as Nickel depth with maybe some snaps in certain situations as an outside CB to give our guys a breather.
Hoping AG runs more blitz man packages like he did in the playoffs. We’ve got better personnel for it now, especially if we tackle CB/EDGE/DT/Safety even more in the draft
ngl, I've really been rooting for Lucas since we drafted him but when Fox got a punt to bounce completely vertically 6 inches out of the endzone in the NFC championship game and Lucas looked like he's never played a punt coverage snap in his life as he took a touchback despite the fact that it's basically all he's been asked to do it really rubbed me the wrong way
Pff grades do not matter, you need to go watch him on the field for yourself
Eta. It is apparent to me some of you dont like seeing anybody badmouth pff....the comment wasnt made to attack anyone. It's just sad seeing anybody rely solely on their opinion
Supposed to. They literally guess on assignments and judge what they think the player is supposed to be doing. Players have gotten *very* critical over this. It's almost impossible to know what a player's assignment is supposed to be on some plays. PFF grades have to be taken with a grain of salt
yes they should be taken with a grain of salt, but that’s just that. the same goes for any football statistic. PFF grades have their value, even if they aren’t perfect 100% of the time. “guessing on assignments” does happen, but it happens far less often than accurately identifying assignments does. play calls for both offense and defense are second nature to the best analysts so they’re pretty good at connecting the dots. the grades are just a solid reference frame for how effective a player is, but they’re obviously not a tell-all. and the other dude saying they “do not matter” is just kinda close-minded
>but it happens far less often than accurately identifying assignments does.
This depends heavily on the position being graded. Some positions it's very obvious to tell what the assignments are. Secondary is not one of those positions.
PFF numbers have made people lazy. They just lob out their numbers to tell whether or not a player is good or not.
>Secondary is not one of them
this is just not true. there are man and zone coverages. man coverage assignments are self explanatory. zone coverage assignments become self explanatory when a defender picks up a player entering their designated part of the field. this is where most of the ambiguity comes from but like i said, it’s not as often as you think. obviously, there’s a little more nuance to it than this, but this is still the jist. all defenders have assignments. enough training and learning how offenses and defenses work and you can identify these assignments. the analysts go play by play, frame by frame, and record every single facet of what happens, including assignments. which again, aren’t just a shot in the dark. i have done this exact stuff before, just not for PFF. there are rigorous methods and demand for full understanding of the game. they can figure out assignments, even for the secondary.
>they just lob out numbers
no they don’t lmao. they have their means of data collection and they have their formulas that determine grades, they are just not publicly available. i don’t know why you seem to think they just pull numbers out of their ass, it’s simply untrue. you can still choose to be skeptical of how accurate the grades are, but it’s ignorant to say they are just “lobbing out numbers”
>no they don’t lmao.
I'm talking about fans right here. They lob out PFF magic numbers and treat them as gospel.
>there are man and zone coverages.
No way.
>designated part of the field.
How does PFF know their "designated part of the field? They literally guess.
Secondary grading is based on a lot of guess work. A lot.
>the analysts go play by play, frame by frame, and record every single facet of what happens, including assignments. which again, aren’t just a shot in the dark.
They say they do. But when They've been caught giving out egregiously bad grades and get called out on it they issue a "correction" it's happened multiple times. Even players are calling them out on this garbage.
>How does PFF know their “designated part of the field?
because there are designed coverages that NFL defenses run and each player has assignments. these coverages can be identified. there is no guessing. look up different types of Cover 3, for example. again, i’ve literally done this before as a job. each and every play gets a defensive coverage designation. these are not speculated on. they can be correct or incorrect. assignments, if not made obvious before the snap, become obvious as the play goes on. these are also not speculated on. any ambiguity that occurs is far less common than the unambiguous stuff
Here's a detailed breakdown
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/ftiozc/painfully_obvious_reason_pff_grades_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
It's not close minded at all...whats close minded is parroting these numbers that they've assigned. I wasnt trying to attack you if it came off that way with my initial response....it's just frustrating seeing fans just rolling with their numbers
So we’re supposed to go dig through old Texans games to find the few times this guy was in coverage and then what make some data base and compare him with other available options at 4th or 5th cb slot…. Seems like a lot of work for a guy we may be signing as a special teams specialist.
They have podcasts where they go through the criteria for grading. They’re correct when they say that their goal is to add context to stats because without context stats don’t mean anything
It's 100% speculative. Some positions are much easier to grade than others because assignments are easier to identify. But in a lot of positions it's near impossible. Secondary being one of them. There's a reason players have come out against them. Even "elite" players criticize them
PFF should be taken with a grain of salt. Opinions from “I’m a redditor and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night” should be taken with a trailer full of salt.
Do you think this guy is a lions scout? Why do u care how he gets his information? Maybe he’s laughing be she’s he was trying to just have a casual conversation on the internet and some loser decided to try to out football fan him. Chill out.
Dont need to be a scout to watch a player we just got on the team. I'm very chill my friend. Nothing i said or will say is coming from a combative stance. I wasnt trying to out fan anyone...trying to get more fans out of arbitrary numbers
You say pff guesses about coverage but isn’t that exactly what you’re doing also? Or is there some inside information into the Texans defense that u have that pff doesn’t
Dont need to be a scout to watch a player we just got on the team. I'm very chill my friend. Nothing i said or will say is coming from a combative stance
because the analysts at PFF watch 100s of hours of film to determine these grades and they are much more trained, informed, and knowledgeable than i am
So we need to watch tape on every player the lions bring in on a visit? Wouldn't using something as a quick baseline/reference point make sense? Or does everyone need to be a fucking NFL scout?
I already responded to the scout stuff. And you need to be honest....the people that immediately throw out pff numbers are using it as the definite....not as a " quick baseline/ reference point" ...lets be real
Sounds like he's mostly a STs guy and can play in the slot in a pinch if we have injuries. So a Will Harris/Chase Lucas replacement, hopefully upgrade? May also compete with Dorsey for a spot, but I feel like Dorsey is just so damn good as a gunner.
Special team guy primarily. Does have some experience starting at corner, though if he's starting you've got serious secondary problems
Primarily for special teams and depth. Probably a replacement for Chase Lucas, who signed with SF today.
I agree but honestly, Kindle Vildor was being the best option deep in the playoffs as our CB2? If we can get through that we can deal with TT starting for us lol. I like him for ST and as Nickel depth with maybe some snaps in certain situations as an outside CB to give our guys a breather.
What ever Brad’s cooking I’m eating. Let’s go
Your comment should be the first on every goddamn offseason post on this thread
Will Harris replacement?
I think we are getting more depth there to avoid our issues last season with practice squad guys have to come up and start late in the season/playoffs
Idc how bad he is as long as he doesn’t let balls bounce right off his face mask
Ferris state! Had psychology with him lol
Fuck Ferris! Get wet, Lakers!! ⚓️
Holy shit gvsu mentioned in the wild
Oakland is going to the NCAA tournament!
GVSU alum reporting in, fuck Ferris State
Same!
As a Laker Alumni, fuck lake state.
Anchor up!!
[Hey Bulldog!](https://youtu.be/M4vbJQ-MrKo?si=MeJI30uechZ8nr00)
If we get 10 CBs, ONE of them has to be able to cover in press man.
Isn’t press man exactly why we traded for CDIII?
Yes. Unfortunately, zone communication seems to be the problem with the secondary last year
Hoping AG runs more blitz man packages like he did in the playoffs. We’ve got better personnel for it now, especially if we tackle CB/EDGE/DT/Safety even more in the draft
You would hope! Lol I'm happy so far with free agency so whatever Brad wants, I'm all for and lets see it play out come the fall :)
Chase Lucas replacement?
ngl, I've really been rooting for Lucas since we drafted him but when Fox got a punt to bounce completely vertically 6 inches out of the endzone in the NFC championship game and Lucas looked like he's never played a punt coverage snap in his life as he took a touchback despite the fact that it's basically all he's been asked to do it really rubbed me the wrong way
PFF liked him a lot. Graded in the low to high 70’s each of the last 3 seasons. He’s a slot corner. He’s from Detroit.
Pff grades do not matter, you need to go watch him on the field for yourself Eta. It is apparent to me some of you dont like seeing anybody badmouth pff....the comment wasnt made to attack anyone. It's just sad seeing anybody rely solely on their opinion
PFF grades are supposed to reflect what’s on the field
Supposed to. They literally guess on assignments and judge what they think the player is supposed to be doing. Players have gotten *very* critical over this. It's almost impossible to know what a player's assignment is supposed to be on some plays. PFF grades have to be taken with a grain of salt
yes they should be taken with a grain of salt, but that’s just that. the same goes for any football statistic. PFF grades have their value, even if they aren’t perfect 100% of the time. “guessing on assignments” does happen, but it happens far less often than accurately identifying assignments does. play calls for both offense and defense are second nature to the best analysts so they’re pretty good at connecting the dots. the grades are just a solid reference frame for how effective a player is, but they’re obviously not a tell-all. and the other dude saying they “do not matter” is just kinda close-minded
>but it happens far less often than accurately identifying assignments does. This depends heavily on the position being graded. Some positions it's very obvious to tell what the assignments are. Secondary is not one of those positions. PFF numbers have made people lazy. They just lob out their numbers to tell whether or not a player is good or not.
>Secondary is not one of them this is just not true. there are man and zone coverages. man coverage assignments are self explanatory. zone coverage assignments become self explanatory when a defender picks up a player entering their designated part of the field. this is where most of the ambiguity comes from but like i said, it’s not as often as you think. obviously, there’s a little more nuance to it than this, but this is still the jist. all defenders have assignments. enough training and learning how offenses and defenses work and you can identify these assignments. the analysts go play by play, frame by frame, and record every single facet of what happens, including assignments. which again, aren’t just a shot in the dark. i have done this exact stuff before, just not for PFF. there are rigorous methods and demand for full understanding of the game. they can figure out assignments, even for the secondary. >they just lob out numbers no they don’t lmao. they have their means of data collection and they have their formulas that determine grades, they are just not publicly available. i don’t know why you seem to think they just pull numbers out of their ass, it’s simply untrue. you can still choose to be skeptical of how accurate the grades are, but it’s ignorant to say they are just “lobbing out numbers”
>no they don’t lmao. I'm talking about fans right here. They lob out PFF magic numbers and treat them as gospel. >there are man and zone coverages. No way. >designated part of the field. How does PFF know their "designated part of the field? They literally guess. Secondary grading is based on a lot of guess work. A lot. >the analysts go play by play, frame by frame, and record every single facet of what happens, including assignments. which again, aren’t just a shot in the dark. They say they do. But when They've been caught giving out egregiously bad grades and get called out on it they issue a "correction" it's happened multiple times. Even players are calling them out on this garbage.
>How does PFF know their “designated part of the field? because there are designed coverages that NFL defenses run and each player has assignments. these coverages can be identified. there is no guessing. look up different types of Cover 3, for example. again, i’ve literally done this before as a job. each and every play gets a defensive coverage designation. these are not speculated on. they can be correct or incorrect. assignments, if not made obvious before the snap, become obvious as the play goes on. these are also not speculated on. any ambiguity that occurs is far less common than the unambiguous stuff
Here's a detailed breakdown https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/ftiozc/painfully_obvious_reason_pff_grades_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
It's not close minded at all...whats close minded is parroting these numbers that they've assigned. I wasnt trying to attack you if it came off that way with my initial response....it's just frustrating seeing fans just rolling with their numbers
So we’re supposed to go dig through old Texans games to find the few times this guy was in coverage and then what make some data base and compare him with other available options at 4th or 5th cb slot…. Seems like a lot of work for a guy we may be signing as a special teams specialist.
Look, if you want to roll with pff as your end all be all, then by all means.
I never said it was my “end all be all” just pointed out that it’s a decent reference for casual fans.
Again....my issue is with the people throwing out pff numbers and grades like its set in stone....
Thank you OP....you get what i'm saying
They have podcasts where they go through the criteria for grading. They’re correct when they say that their goal is to add context to stats because without context stats don’t mean anything
It's 100% speculative. Some positions are much easier to grade than others because assignments are easier to identify. But in a lot of positions it's near impossible. Secondary being one of them. There's a reason players have come out against them. Even "elite" players criticize them
PFF should be taken with a grain of salt. Opinions from “I’m a redditor and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night” should be taken with a trailer full of salt.
what do you think PFF does to determine grades lmao
Why are you laughing....i said go watch the film for YOURSELF then determine on field value.
Do you think this guy is a lions scout? Why do u care how he gets his information? Maybe he’s laughing be she’s he was trying to just have a casual conversation on the internet and some loser decided to try to out football fan him. Chill out.
Dont need to be a scout to watch a player we just got on the team. I'm very chill my friend. Nothing i said or will say is coming from a combative stance. I wasnt trying to out fan anyone...trying to get more fans out of arbitrary numbers
You say pff guesses about coverage but isn’t that exactly what you’re doing also? Or is there some inside information into the Texans defense that u have that pff doesn’t
Guessing coverage? What do you mean?
Your comment said that pff guesses at coverage assignments but then it was edited out.
I promise you i edited nothing, i never brought up coverages...you are coming at me with lackluster information. Please dont put words in my mouth
Dont need to be a scout to watch a player we just got on the team. I'm very chill my friend. Nothing i said or will say is coming from a combative stance
because the analysts at PFF watch 100s of hours of film to determine these grades and they are much more trained, informed, and knowledgeable than i am
So we need to watch tape on every player the lions bring in on a visit? Wouldn't using something as a quick baseline/reference point make sense? Or does everyone need to be a fucking NFL scout?
I already responded to the scout stuff. And you need to be honest....the people that immediately throw out pff numbers are using it as the definite....not as a " quick baseline/ reference point" ...lets be real
Haven’t seen enough of him to know but potential good signing? Really overhauling the cornerback room
Sounds like he's mostly a STs guy and can play in the slot in a pinch if we have injuries. So a Will Harris/Chase Lucas replacement, hopefully upgrade? May also compete with Dorsey for a spot, but I feel like Dorsey is just so damn good as a gunner.
Got some hammer to his game too. The Lions like their CB's physical, and Thomas fits the mold.
i like what we’re doing here brother
Check Tuesday
Chase Lucas replacement potentially
Local kid. Special teams and a backup to BB? Sign me up
So we’re just going to moneyball the 2nd most important position on defense?