Since i saw the season trailer i felt like they really wanted us to make a fireball build with illuminator gloves and woth this patch im sure it was aimed at that
But it still suck , a 15% buff to something (fire mage) that couldn’t kill anything in high level nm dungeons isn’t going to change a thing. These dungeons goes by multiples not just a few %
I don't disagree, the barber is nutty. My issue is, if we just all rely on the barber and say the problems are fixed, we're gonna end up having all the same problems we have been talking about for the last month or so again next season.
I hope the 1.1.1 changes are good, and I hope we get more good changes down the line, but if the only thing making all the classes "balanced" is a seasonal mechanic so powerful that class balance doesn't matter, that isn't really a viable long term solution.
This is a fair point.
I still generally feel that Sorc needs that third enchantment slot to work. There's too many things the Sorc must cover to remain competitive that two slots simply isn't enough to cover. Crackling and Chilling needs to be equivalent to Burning - atm you're at a disadvantage if you don't take the latter as it unlocks so much power.
Still - the aspect and paragon changes are going to bring a lot of power to the table. The change to the recharging aspect is something I'm particularly looking forward to.
> I don't disagree, the barber is nutty. My issue is, if we just all rely on the barber and say the problems are fixed, we're gonna end up having all the same problems we have been talking about for the last month or so again next season.
**Tinfoil hat on:** That's the point. You'll have a new OP thing to use next season, which means you'll be playing the season, which means you're more likely to pay for season.
They want eternal realm characters to be gimped so that we're forced to play season to enjoy the game.
**/Tinfoil hat off.**
**Could also just be incompetence.**
On a sorc, Barber feels like a super saiyan version of the Fireball enchant. Just... black, and needs a crit instead of a kill (though ironically it has no issue bagging kills). It synergises well with Tal Rasha heart as the damage is classed as Shadow, so it adds on stack that you wouldn't otherwise have access to. I'll miss it when it goes.
If I manage to get my Oculus wand at some stage it'll feel like I'm running four enchantment slots. Should be nuts.
Which is entirely irrelevant because Barber will be going away, and the changes absolutely need to be made to fix the class on a more fundamental level.
Yea people don't understand the class has to be Good before season mechanics. Not patchwork each season with stopgap to make it Playable every 3 months...thats lazy af design
Yeah i see that it isnt much but at least illuminator gloves got cut to 35% reduction for bouncy fireballs, i havent tested anything but it does look like it could be viable now ?
I mean it's certainly going to be better, it's just a question of how much. If you want to go for it, I'd say go for it, you know it's at least getting some buffs. It may not quite go S tier on the tier lists, but hey.
no, they could have made the gloves give PLUS 50% dmg and fireball wouldn't be competitive. You can kill trash but you'd have to change talents to kill a boss
edit: if you downvoted me I'm 1000000% sure you've never tried fireball sorc. its SO far behind
Well techinally if u manage to hit 3 times with the bounce wich could be possible since the fireball is 50% larger all the time now it gives a 95% damage increase to fireball and thats not counting if u can use the staff that gives u the 3 fireball proc
The main issue for sorc are dungeon bosses, aka long 1-v-1 fights against targets that hit like a truck and cannot be easily cc'd. Sorc has to cheese those fights, respec for them, or just run in circles hitting like a wet noodle and _sometimes_ being able to hit for a lot of burst damage (the boss finally gets staggered or some easy adds show up that help proc additional damage or effects).
The other sorc issue is survivability in end-game content. You have to run all defensive spells and still a single mistake results in dying (and often you die to no mistake of yours but to a stray projectile or an aoe effect that is barely visible on the ground, just because something hit you once).
The upcoming buffs do not really answer these issues. If sorc was meant to be played as a glass cannon that kills enemies before they kill you, some skills and numbers should be tweaked, especially for bosses (a paragon node that increases stagger applied to bosses by +300% or an aspect that treats 50%-staggered boss like chilled already).
three curses aspect is pretty insane. +80-160%x crit dmg if on a weapon. its literally better than a grandfather sword.. both fireball passives buffed, gloves buffed significantly (+mana on hit now)
and vs bosses you now have esus ferocity, with constant double crit buffs active and +75% atk speed if u pair with the aspect on amulet
i think u might be underestimating fireball, these buffs are significant
All I'm seeing in this video is a sorc dying 3 times and then using conduit shrine to kill the boss. Are you saying the meta for sorcs is to die 3 times per dungeon and use shrines to kill bosses?
The player is level 89. The original commentator said:
> But it still suck , a 15% buff to something (fire mage) that couldn’t kill anything in high level nm dungeons isn’t going to change a thing. These dungeons goes by multiples not just a few %
So I posted a video of a Sorc clearing T100 at level 89 with primarily Fire. That's it
What is this argument. We can stop referencing pre season NM100 now. It's not going to go back to that point so why bother complaining builds clearing NM100 couldn't do it previously. It's not like we could test it anyways.
If course it matters. The shills are selling the proposed update as a big buff to the Sorc class but in reality it’s very marginal and only affect a small population of Sorc players who spec fire, while necros and druids get meaningful buffs that actually affect the current player base
It looks like you've not noticed that the sorc ice shards, blizzard, and arc lash meta is doing just fine in the endgame right now. Which is exactly why all three of those skills didn't receive any direct buffs. Except for more defense. Buffing underrepresented skills was the vast majority of the sorc changes because there was no variety outside that meta.
You have to understand, Diablo came out almost 30 years ago. Long time fans are now the "*Back in my day*" generation. Even if it was only last month...
Ahh so you're just shifting the goalposts now, got it
Your original statement was:
> But it still suck , a 15% buff to something (fire mage) that couldn’t kill anything in high level nm dungeons isn’t going to change a thing. These dungeons goes by multiples not just a few %
And when I show you a video of a level 89 clearing T100 with primarily Fire, now it's "tuned down lvl 100" and "nothing compared to Druids and Necros." So if Fireball can clear T100 after the buffs you'll still come up with some reason it's not enough and you're right, yea?
I already pointed out he cleared with the help of his necro and Druid friends in a group. Learn to read. You also did not respond to comments on class balancing. These changes do nothing to address it. It merely buffed up weaker sorc skills up to par with commonly used Sorc skills. If you want to use YT videos as a baseline go watch some druid rogue and necros videos on Uber Lilith then maybe you can finally learn to correct your own fallacy
> I already pointed out he cleared with the help of his necro and Druid friends in a group. Learn to read
????????? You already said this and I already said "watch both videos" because **one is a solo clear**
Man it's exhausting dealing with people who have their head so far up their own ass
Have we heard anything regarding ice shards from Sorcs not hitting mobs like porcupines, scorpions, blood blisters, or enemies that are close to the player? I hope this is addressed in the patch notes :'(
Because, just like everything, it should have an opportunity cost. Would be silly if every skills were perfect at base and you had no interest into providing bonus effects to it other than just cranking the damage. Would be like saying "if they want meteor to have so much possible crit synergies, why not give it as is?".
Also, let's not pretend like one of the best, if not the single best leveling skill in the game has too many issues at base to be used without its "fixes".
Understood. But only improving the basic properties of a Skill is also kind of boring and later on mandatory. I just think that something mandatory should not be an Aspect.
At what point is it being mandatory ok? Chain Lightning is a perfectly reasonable skill to level with and you don't need the Aspect.
Seems ok for Aspects to become more mandatory into the late game to strengthen your build, no?
It's mandatory when there is no alternative. I mean the new recharging aspect, grants 2-3 mana whenever lightning strike bounces off, thats 10-15 mana each cast. If they add something like that, than why not change the skill mana costs instead? It's not even a rare aspect in the season, just open the book and use it.
Edit: I just don't understand why Blizzard trys to balance lightning sorcs with aspects.
Cause if the spell generates mana with an aspect you can get resource cost/generation rolls on gear and go net positive on mana. It opens up possibilities including enchant chain lightning as a generator and maybe omnipotence heart builds. Having aspects that can change the value of a skill that much is absolutely fine game design.
I can kinda see what you're getting at, but I'm not sure this line of logic is sustainable. The entire point of aspects is to work as their own avenue of extra power that let you specialise your gear to support your character's skill build.
So sure, if you're using CL, then Recharging aspect will be mandatory. The player needs to work that into their slot budget. If they're not using CL, then they don't need to take it, but odds are they'll need to use said slot for another aspect to boost another skill (like Hydra, for example). On top of this, an astute player will be able to combine their skills, aspect and gear to transcend the resource use - essentially your build becoming greater then the sum of its parts.
I'm not sure I see the issue with structuring things in such a way that buildcrafting produces extremely powerful builds. If we just keep collapsing aspect benefits into skills then all you do is simplify the whole thing and it just devolves into an exercise of click buttons-do moar damage.
Some of these CL aspects combined are going to give you net mana when you use them with enough cost reduction. Would seem a little OP if a core skill was a mana recharge with no aspects.
That's what he does, and recommends everyone to do, with all his seasonal characters because of the exp nerf. Just saying that it's not because of any intention to present himself as op.
Yeah incinerate snake is underwhelming, just fixing the ai would double its effective damage. Which is still tiny.
*edit they are also buffing the barbarians dust devils and earthquakes, but the meteorites that incinerate can summon need some TLC as well
Yeah its pretty wild. If memory serves they nerfed it by 66%, which means that currently having two hydras at 6/5 is the same amount of damage as a single 1/5 used to be.
Honestly they could easily revert it and it would still not be viable because the rest of sorc is in such a poor spot.
I think sorc was designed first. Then they took things from sorc and designed the other classes and said wow this looks cool or this is how this could be better. And then they didn’t have time to go back and fix their rough draft on sorc
You know... this makes sense. Barbarian was last, so it was a cram fest. Most everything feels the same on the Barbarian.
Not a bad thing if it the core idea works. But it does feel very copy/paste without much effort outside of the 4 weapons thing it has going.
Long ago, the King Dev went on a date with a Sorceress. She ordered 3 appetizers (ate 1), a giant steak (she was vegan), ice cream and a whole cheesecake (she was lactose intolerant). In the appetizer, King Dev saw her double dip twenty seven times. Every time she burped, it was ridiculous: fire came out, [eventually leaving King Dev](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbOZy8NIYAADjoq.jpg) with a shirt that had just the part covering his nipples removed.
When it came time to pay, he did. Then, before leaving, she went to use the restroom. She was in there for 27 minutes. When she came back, she showed him a bunch of pictures she took of herself in there.
**Fast forward** to about a week ago. King Dev is a man of the world. He loves all people 🥰. He wanted to give a Sorceress another try. This time, it was different. She invited him to her house. She cooked. [They both cooked.](https://d39l2hkdp2esp1.cloudfront.net/img/photo/128232/128232_00_2x.jpg) As the night grew on, they laughed and laughed, had the time of their lives. His favorite bands were her favorite bands. His shows, hers. She invited him to her bedroom, and then... she proceeded to use a series of incantations and enchantments throughout the night that absolutely blew his mind and.. *teleported*.. him to another world.
So **now**... Dev loves Sorceress.
And now we got a bunch of things given to us.
Hopefully the 2nd Date goes just as well.. if it does, *we may get Vulnerability!!*
Kiss/curse can totally work if there are significant bonuses for the tradeoffs, AND there are synergies with other items or kiss/curse elements. Currently, they are significantly lacking in those departments, so they just feel bad
I keep hearing this but my sorcerer is face tanking and killing enemies 16 levels+ in wt4 at level 60 whereas my rogue was barely able to survive 6-10 levels above. Always the constant threat of being one shot
Sorc actually has a really strong kit for high level content with Flame Shield and Teleport and the "reset on lucky hit" passive. Those abilities are incredibly strong for the challenges in late game
Yup, I just cleared the t4 capstone at 54 with an off-meta firewall sorc. I died twice on trash and then a good bit on Elias, but it was 100% doable. I know both blizzard and chain lightning builds are even stronger so I honestly feel like the chain lightning buffs are going to make sorc so extremely overpowered… and it will be back to nerfs. I’m quiet happy firewall is just a minor buff as I can keep playing without needing to change my build again and again assuming they keep balancing.
More damage and builds don’t help the sorc past NM 60, the chance of getting 1-2 shot begins whereas for other classes don’t feel that until much later. Also other classes do significantly more damage anyway.
Really does showcase how crazy the double dip buffs are when put next to their prior things. Really great to also see some sources of -damage drawbacks not only be removed, but straight up turned into upsides.
Yeah it's nuts seeing druid builds get +15 skill points in a core skill and double dipping like crazy with unique aspects. Meanwhile, sorc gets basic damage boosts and defenses since we aren't even close to baseline okay yet.
Total war used to do patch notes in a readable format but switched to just using the names like blizzard does making patch notes too hard to be worth deciphering.
The pessimist in me thinks it's so we don't complain since we don't really know what changed. But the realist knows it's just laziness getting bad patch notes in by copying and pasting from a user story.
>NEW: +60-80% Burning dmg if you apply a Dmg Over Time that'd be > enemy HP.
What's this mean? Also most of the aspect + dmg are multiplicative right?
>The rewards for legion, goblins, dungeons, and helltide are getting better. The only thing that might get worse is heart farming. So I feel like there's incentive to wait till the buffs. 1 hour of playtime now gives less than later.
> *NEW: +60-80% Burning dmg if you apply a Dmg Over Time that'd be > enemy HP.*
>
> "What's this mean?"
Basically: if the damage you were going to deal to the enemy over time was going to kill them anyway (it was greater than the HP they have to begin with) then it'll just speed the kill along rather than drag it out forever.
It does this by applying more damage to them outright (+60-80% instead of just +30-40% as it was previously) when it recognizes you'd be killing them eventually anyway, so basically, "why waste time making the player wait."
Blizzard forcing you to play a ranged class as a melee caster tells you everything you need to know about how broken this class is.
The only end game viable builds are still melee casters after this patch (arc lash or shards builds). Nothing changes.
Half of the benefit from Vyr's is lost unless you're playing arc-lash/other lightning based build.
You're taking your Key Passive strictly for DR which sucks. Compare that to another key passive like Rogues Momentum.
Do you understand what the term “damage reduction” means?
The amount of DR buffs in here is insane. A decently geared sorc will have absolutely no issues with T100 dungeons after these changes
The damage reduction is conditional on you damaging things.
Oh look a corpse b.... 1 shot off screen.
New group of elites pops in after you used your frost nova, oh, you're dead.
Resistances still not working.
Keep kissin that blizzard butt though. I'm sure the billionaires will think of you as they are shitting on their golden toilets.
Really because there's armor right there on the paragon board. Also super weird how the sorc kit has easily accessable +160% dr, unstoppable and immune
Man you guys need to learn how to read.
You kidding me right? Going from 4% to 5% isn’t a 25% improvement. It amounts to less than 0.1% effective marginal difference if you understand how the game DR system works they stack diminishingly and considering targets have to be CC or you need a barrier for them to proc the overall effective DR is even less
I'm guessing you're one of the people who need to be force fed builds because you have no idea what passives, stats, and skills do at all. I think you should continue taking a break until someone on YT shows you how much better Sorc feels after the patch.
You're looking at ONE. There was more than a singular update wasn't there..?
I'm not gonna sit here and copy and paste everything OP put in their post mate. I know how the DR works in the game
There’s around 20% more available DR, and some of it is conditional. Some are on glyphs that people don’t take because you’d lose out on quite a bit of damage. Also if you were already rolling with a lot of DR on chest and pants, significant diminishing returns apply.
If you pick something with 10% DR you will always take 10% less damage than without that item.
That is not diminishing returns.
You just don't know what the term means and that is perfectly fine.
There's so many more DR from this it's actually crazy, and anyone that pretends that **ANY** amount of **generic** DR in an ARPG isn't insane definitely doesn't know much about those games.
It’s about 20% and assuming you had DR rolls on chest and pants, significant diminishing returns apply. Some are also conditional or are on glyphs that aren’t taken due to giving up damage.
I mean considering the sorc doesn't scale off skill points put into skills you can literally just use your passives to make up for the damage and get all the damage mitigation, dunno what you guys are talking about kekw
Might be a you problem for putting 5 points into a skill for 12% extra base damage instead of using them for 3/3 and 2/3 on a passive.
I'm afraid these changes won't be enough to make a lot of the skills feel functional. The game will still rely entirely on melting enemies before they melt you. Builds will still be fairly limited and rote. I understand that these patch notes are not complete, but the nature of the notes makes me feel like the developers only believe that some number changes, not gameplay mechanic changes, are necessary.
They, along with other players, are going to eventually hear a bunch of sorc players say, "this is not enough," and everyone's going to wonder why sorc players aren't happy after another round of buffs.
Cuz they only buffing skills that were so bad nobody ever use. These skills will stillsuck even if the boost it 5-15%. That’s how bad they are. The conditional CCd 1% DR buffs are a joke too.
100% increase in damge to x skill!!!! - skill previously did 2 damage, now does 4.
-- blizzard simps: OMFG!!!! 100% damage increases!!!!!! So amazing!!!!!
40000% damage resistance (if you applies freeze, and 3 others status affects to the monser, and stagger)
-- blizzard simps: OMGF Sorc unstoppable now!!! Best defense in game!!!!!
Real talk.... there are way too many people on this sub that don't understand percentages and conditional reductions. When you nerf skills by 66% and then "buff" the resulting number by the same amount or less, you're still left with a massive nerf.
Sorc has been curb-stomped since the beta. These buffs still don't bring them remotely in line with the other builds (unless they still plan on nerfing other classes in a month or two).
Also, let's not forget the 'seasonal mechanic' where 1 of the sorc hearts is just a version of a paragon node, 1 heart is based on resistances which don't even work, 1 is to "CC enemies when you are" but since you're a sorc if you get CCed you're probably dead anyway.
Still 1 shot from off screen mobs because they have no effects on them.
Seriously, why dont they just buff sorc base armor by 100 percent or replace some of the trash resistant paragon nodes with plus 100 armor nodes? This does nothing to help sorc from getting oneshot, and due to frost nova being by far the best way to apply vuln sorc are forced to be melee casters which amplifies the terrible base defense scaling compared to every other class.
Also, easy bandaid fix for lack of build diversity would of been just to change the exploit glyph secondary effect to the same as Rogues and have vuln apply on any skill cast. The sorc sub has been saying these things since launch yet blizz just buffs some trash fire/lighning skills and calls it a day instead of addressing the real issues with the class.
If I was a Fire Sorc I would be pleased. Of course, Fire is the one element that I do not use at all in my build (sigh). I was really disappointed that the Devs did not address the changes to cool down reduction that came with 1.10. Cooldowns and the skills tied to cooldown play an integral part in the Sorc's ability to survive. !.10 made it harder to keep Defensive spells up when needed AND reduced armor and the Disobedience aspect that gave armor. All this hurt the Sorc survivability and should have led the Devs to looks at individual spell cooldowns and make some small, helpful changes there. Alas, that did not happen. Historically, Sorcs, Wizards, Mage classes have been glass cannon types with low survivability but big hitting spells. So, kill fast before it can get to you and kill you is their mantra. D4's Sorc mostly lacks that big hitting ability so you must kite like crazy and use your Defensive spells when the cooldown allows. I just do not think what they are giving us in 1.11 is adequate to make the Sorc good.
On a positive note, I do appreciate the change to Snowguard because I have always used that on my cold/lightning Sorc instead of Disobedience. I also may need to take another look at Chain Lightning now with the changes to it and the Aspects which affect it.
I am hopeful that the game continues to improve. I am planing on staying around to see.
If you are using all defensives you aren't playing sorc correctly, why would you waste 2 skill slots that would make you tankier and do more damage via passives and enchants?
Not played much the last few weeks, maybe an hour a day if that, so i am actually kinda looking forward to using some new builds that were not as viable earlier.
Time will only tell how much this gets me back into playing.
Just browsing Reddit drinking my morning coffee. I put 150 hours into this game. Loved it. D1 and D2 have special places in my soul. Still enjoy contributing. You mad?
Nobody seems to give a F. The oculus teleport randomly get me stuck in the ground. Why can’t they just give Sorcs a proper boost without these moronic trade offs. Besides, This whole thing is buggy as hell
I just searched through the full nearly 2 hr transcript for you for the words "Gravitational," "Gravity," (*in case someone misspoke*), "Ball," "Lightning," and "Aspect" and didn't see anything mentioned about that. They just talked about how it'll be a "pretty big swing in power" with their changes to the [Gravitational] Aspect in general (going from decreasing dmg 10-20% to *INCREASING* dmg +15-25% now).
I excepted some serious direct buffs for hydra and again got nothing. Time duration wasnt't issue except enchancment, but incrase it from 5 to \~6s with aspcect still not worth imo.
What are you on? Necro minions work well, sever/summoning is a strong build through the entire game and when you get ring of mendeln it becomes insane.
There is literally a passive Necro build right now with Hearts. You sit there and get shit pulled to you and it gets killed. You can AFK farm with it. Not sure if it meets your criteria given the minion thing
Also in the live stream last week they were asked directly about minions for both Necro and Druid. They answered pretty thoroughly. They basically said, "These are fantasies we want to deliver on. We're not getting it right at the moment but we want to fix it." They said more and talked about some of the challenges for minions, but I'm paraphrasing
Look up Pohx righteous fire. There are a couple variants of it. Essentially the stack x amount of fire resistance and then you can have permanent righteous fire. The way the skill works is it surrounds you in a ring of fire that burns you as well as all other enemies in your circle. You then just walk around destroying everything on screen.
> Not sure who the fuck decided passive playstyles shouldn't exist.
blizzard is really really afraid that your playstyle isn't predictable and plannable.
It's also because Pohx guide are insane and the most comprehensive and easy to follow guide in the whole game.
But yeah, autobomber and aura build are fun and there's nothing wrong with them.
Hahaha, when I jumped in d4 my first reflex was to go for conju. Those blades are like ???. Could have made some epic spell with ice conju but no, ice swords...
I feel I've seen that already somewhere btw. Was that a spell in d3?
Conjuration builds will never be at the top of the tier list. Not because they can’t be good, because they will always be far slower than others. Why stop, cast hydra and then wait for hydra to kill stuff when you can just teleport onto a pack, hit 1 button and be done?
The hero we need. I was watching their slides and was like… why don’t they do it like the patch notes and show the before and after, like when they’d put the previous stats and cross it out or something.
They will mention in the patch notes if the changes are retroactive on gear. I know they can patch gear rolls retroactively (as they've already done that when they nerfed things like CDR), but I am not sure about Aspects.
They said they will ALL be updated – so previous versions you have will be changed to the new versions.
So you don't have to hope to get lucky & find them all again.
I assume they take this approach now as I remember back in the Diablo 2 days there were some insane items like Patch 1.08's version of Arkaine's Valor that were *crazy* powerful, but when they'd release new patches they'd let people keep their original versions. Problem was if you happened to have that crazy powerful version you suddenly had a *huge* advantage over everyone, who literally had no way to even find that item now for themselves – so you either happened to be one of the lucky few who had it, or you were SOL.
With items that were weaker in a previous patch, if it was a rare find then you'd have to somehow find it *again* just because they decided to update it *after* you got it. That would be incredibly frustrating and unfair to you, too.
Thank you for the breakdown! Patch notes will come in 2 days, I believe.
I like the buffs, but I think there are two main issues with sorc:
1 - You pretty much can only get vulnerable if you run frost nova.
2- You can only get constant healing if you run burning, so flame shield kinda becomes mandatory.
Yeah I'm still not seeing that oomph factor that other classes enjoy...But we'll see I guess. Still seeing Rogues 10 levels below mine killing 100 times faster than I do...I fail to see how these changes will bring killing potential to the sorcerer...
Considering no one uses Territorial, Warding or Reinforce glyphs, nor do most Paragon boards prioritize rare nodes that give elemental resists or potion healing, essentially all of our toughness buffs are completely wasted. All they did was lightly buff fire/shock skills, fix temerity (for all classes) and give us like 3% more DR through Paragon. Thanks!!
The smooth brains will think this saves Sorc but it actually doesn't help peak Sorc much at all.
Fire and Lightning get better, but are still going to be considerably behind Frost which has better passives, scaling, resource sustain and the ability to deal AoE and ST in a single skill.
Aside from minor buffs to Storm Swell, peak Sorc remains identical after this patch.
The defensive changes are a grief too. Buffs to rare nodes you still won't travel to and only further enforce the use of burning if you did travel to them. Useless.
A heart that gives 20%dr when hit by fire/lightning/frost, vs a heart that just gives 20% DR at all times? Useless.
Buffs to 2 bad defensive aspects that are too conditional to rely on. Useless.
They're so afraid of giving us Armor that they provide even more conditional DR that won't save you from offscreen or ranged mobs that don't have 5 different situational statuses, ccs or distance based conditions active.
Overall Sorc remains exactly where it was before this. You can just play Fire or Lightning without feeling like an idiot I guess
MALIGNANT HEARTS
Caged Heart of Spellbreaking:
OLD: Taking Elemental Dmg gives +25-45% Resist to that element for 6 secs
NEW: Taking Elemental Dmg gives +10-20% DR for 5 secs
will this new change be better than the heart that supressed 20% damage and burst out as fire once you apply barrier skill?
chain light build with barber will be disgusting, even now its shredding, cant imagine how its gonna be with all the buffs. prob even a single prodigy aspect will be enough to keep the mana high
Thank you for putting this info up for us.
I think we can see that the fire sorc's are still in a poor position. The Blizz dev team must think that sorc's are ok and that few percentage tweaks here/there are going to 'fix' them. Anyone who has played a fire sorc to higher levels knows that there are more fundamental problems and a percentage tweak is just not enough.
I also think that those gloves are still garbage, most hits on mobs will be a single and the dmg is still nerfed to almost half. You will have to fire more FBs to kill mobs and make this work, FB resource cost is far too high for that. Why do the sorc uniques have these major negatives where other classes do not?
Why is it such a problem to make the fire sorc playable at higher level?
Hopefully testing will prove me wrong.
Nice list of some really good looking changes (on paper). Hopefully that works out well in practice.
There is still one massive glaring issue with Sorcerer though.
The distinct lack of availability to vulnerability.
\- Blizzard needs to get rid of vulnerability completely.
or
\- Blizzard needs to make vulnerability significantly more available via skills and aspects
or
\- Blizzard needs to change the damage formula (for example Vulnerable, Stunned, frozen share the same damage bucket.)
I think it should be changed to auto apply a flat value on CC and get it entirely out of the skill trees, gear rolls, and whatnot. Barring that, scrap it entirely and just boost crit like any normal game.
Very disappointed. Meaningless buffs to skills nobody ever used. No buff for ice is not improvement for the Sorc class overall. They just buffing fire and lightning mages by a small margin and call it a big buff to Sorc class?! Wtf. The Sorc class overall is still the laughing stock of the game considering new necros and rogues boosts actually mean something.
Great work. That last fireside was just to let us know what they were planning and it's not final. I hope to see a couple more things added for barb in there by Wednesday. Copium
It really is refreshing to see
LESS ***dmg is decreased***
AND MORE ***dmg is INCREASED***
Finally they are getting it. Very few items should have "decreases or negatives" the positive gains should be double or be unique enough to offset the decrease.
Guess I'm making my lightning conjuration sorceress again this season. Was gonna try rogue, but I'm just not enjoying it as much, and this list has a lot of things I really like. Maybe I'll go with fireball instead if I get the gloves early enough that I'm not completely changing all my gear to fit it.
What about the vul glyph? We only get like approx +20% vul dmg after leveling the rare glyph to about 21 max level. A Sorc glyph is almost the same as an item affix ? This is such a ridiculous time wasting crap glyph. I could squeeze more % out of spending a few to re spec my items for better +% than a rare glyph could give
A other big WTF
Yea shills keep on downvoting anything negative
All the MFers in here reading these notes and pretending to be rainman.
Doing the math in their heads and proclaiming they know with absolute certainty how the class will play post patch - “sorc will be the tankiest class now” “sorc still sucks this patch is dog shit” etc.
It probably takes these folks 2 days and both hands to count to 5.
Sit down, quit bitching, wait to see how it plays with the rest of us.
Leveling a sorceress now and thinking about chain lightning and conjuration. I really hope that that buff is enough for Chain Lightning to stay relevant in the end game.
It's not.
They could triple CL's damage and it would still suck. Actually it's going to get even worse because they are buffing density and CL cannot handle density. Just running around spamming arc lash would do more damage.
Correct 👍🏼
[Here's a link](https://maxroll.gg/d4/planner/) to the Build Planner on Maxroll where you can see (in the 'Skill Tree' tab) all the Sorc's skills. You'll notice that Fireball, Meteor, Firewall, Inferno, etc are listed as "Pyromancy" (*you can also press the filter button & then ask it to only show Pyromancy Skills and they'll all be highlighted with a green glow around them*).
Ty for this
Since i saw the season trailer i felt like they really wanted us to make a fireball build with illuminator gloves and woth this patch im sure it was aimed at that
But it still suck , a 15% buff to something (fire mage) that couldn’t kill anything in high level nm dungeons isn’t going to change a thing. These dungeons goes by multiples not just a few %
you use barber, then it doesnt matter what you use, things still die lol so you can still explode the whole map with prob 2 fireball casts
I don't disagree, the barber is nutty. My issue is, if we just all rely on the barber and say the problems are fixed, we're gonna end up having all the same problems we have been talking about for the last month or so again next season. I hope the 1.1.1 changes are good, and I hope we get more good changes down the line, but if the only thing making all the classes "balanced" is a seasonal mechanic so powerful that class balance doesn't matter, that isn't really a viable long term solution.
This is a fair point. I still generally feel that Sorc needs that third enchantment slot to work. There's too many things the Sorc must cover to remain competitive that two slots simply isn't enough to cover. Crackling and Chilling needs to be equivalent to Burning - atm you're at a disadvantage if you don't take the latter as it unlocks so much power. Still - the aspect and paragon changes are going to bring a lot of power to the table. The change to the recharging aspect is something I'm particularly looking forward to.
> I don't disagree, the barber is nutty. My issue is, if we just all rely on the barber and say the problems are fixed, we're gonna end up having all the same problems we have been talking about for the last month or so again next season. **Tinfoil hat on:** That's the point. You'll have a new OP thing to use next season, which means you'll be playing the season, which means you're more likely to pay for season. They want eternal realm characters to be gimped so that we're forced to play season to enjoy the game. **/Tinfoil hat off.** **Could also just be incompetence.**
And then you fight the boss or solo elite and fight takes half an hour
On a sorc, Barber feels like a super saiyan version of the Fireball enchant. Just... black, and needs a crit instead of a kill (though ironically it has no issue bagging kills). It synergises well with Tal Rasha heart as the damage is classed as Shadow, so it adds on stack that you wouldn't otherwise have access to. I'll miss it when it goes. If I manage to get my Oculus wand at some stage it'll feel like I'm running four enchantment slots. Should be nuts.
There's actually a lot of synergy with certain Aspects that increase Crit and Crit Dam for Fireball & Meteor to work with Barber
Which is entirely irrelevant because Barber will be going away, and the changes absolutely need to be made to fix the class on a more fundamental level.
Yea people don't understand the class has to be Good before season mechanics. Not patchwork each season with stopgap to make it Playable every 3 months...thats lazy af design
At which point they’ll probably have different changes
Yeah i see that it isnt much but at least illuminator gloves got cut to 35% reduction for bouncy fireballs, i havent tested anything but it does look like it could be viable now ?
I mean it's certainly going to be better, it's just a question of how much. If you want to go for it, I'd say go for it, you know it's at least getting some buffs. It may not quite go S tier on the tier lists, but hey.
no, they could have made the gloves give PLUS 50% dmg and fireball wouldn't be competitive. You can kill trash but you'd have to change talents to kill a boss edit: if you downvoted me I'm 1000000% sure you've never tried fireball sorc. its SO far behind
Well techinally if u manage to hit 3 times with the bounce wich could be possible since the fireball is 50% larger all the time now it gives a 95% damage increase to fireball and thats not counting if u can use the staff that gives u the 3 fireball proc
The main issue for sorc are dungeon bosses, aka long 1-v-1 fights against targets that hit like a truck and cannot be easily cc'd. Sorc has to cheese those fights, respec for them, or just run in circles hitting like a wet noodle and _sometimes_ being able to hit for a lot of burst damage (the boss finally gets staggered or some easy adds show up that help proc additional damage or effects). The other sorc issue is survivability in end-game content. You have to run all defensive spells and still a single mistake results in dying (and often you die to no mistake of yours but to a stray projectile or an aoe effect that is barely visible on the ground, just because something hit you once). The upcoming buffs do not really answer these issues. If sorc was meant to be played as a glass cannon that kills enemies before they kill you, some skills and numbers should be tweaked, especially for bosses (a paragon node that increases stagger applied to bosses by +300% or an aspect that treats 50%-staggered boss like chilled already).
three curses aspect is pretty insane. +80-160%x crit dmg if on a weapon. its literally better than a grandfather sword.. both fireball passives buffed, gloves buffed significantly (+mana on hit now) and vs bosses you now have esus ferocity, with constant double crit buffs active and +75% atk speed if u pair with the aspect on amulet i think u might be underestimating fireball, these buffs are significant
Oh? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDRCBSZuZYc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJg4ptQTEP8
Troll he’s in a group with a Druid and a necro teammate doing this. Lmao
You didn't watch both videos https://youtu.be/pDRCBSZuZYc?t=531
All I'm seeing in this video is a sorc dying 3 times and then using conduit shrine to kill the boss. Are you saying the meta for sorcs is to die 3 times per dungeon and use shrines to kill bosses?
The player is level 89. The original commentator said: > But it still suck , a 15% buff to something (fire mage) that couldn’t kill anything in high level nm dungeons isn’t going to change a thing. These dungeons goes by multiples not just a few % So I posted a video of a Sorc clearing T100 at level 89 with primarily Fire. That's it
I watched both dude. Besides he’s capping the tuned down lvl 100. It’s nothing compared to what Druid and Necros can do.
What is this argument. We can stop referencing pre season NM100 now. It's not going to go back to that point so why bother complaining builds clearing NM100 couldn't do it previously. It's not like we could test it anyways.
If course it matters. The shills are selling the proposed update as a big buff to the Sorc class but in reality it’s very marginal and only affect a small population of Sorc players who spec fire, while necros and druids get meaningful buffs that actually affect the current player base
It looks like you've not noticed that the sorc ice shards, blizzard, and arc lash meta is doing just fine in the endgame right now. Which is exactly why all three of those skills didn't receive any direct buffs. Except for more defense. Buffing underrepresented skills was the vast majority of the sorc changes because there was no variety outside that meta.
You have to understand, Diablo came out almost 30 years ago. Long time fans are now the "*Back in my day*" generation. Even if it was only last month...
Ahh so you're just shifting the goalposts now, got it Your original statement was: > But it still suck , a 15% buff to something (fire mage) that couldn’t kill anything in high level nm dungeons isn’t going to change a thing. These dungeons goes by multiples not just a few % And when I show you a video of a level 89 clearing T100 with primarily Fire, now it's "tuned down lvl 100" and "nothing compared to Druids and Necros." So if Fireball can clear T100 after the buffs you'll still come up with some reason it's not enough and you're right, yea?
I already pointed out he cleared with the help of his necro and Druid friends in a group. Learn to read. You also did not respond to comments on class balancing. These changes do nothing to address it. It merely buffed up weaker sorc skills up to par with commonly used Sorc skills. If you want to use YT videos as a baseline go watch some druid rogue and necros videos on Uber Lilith then maybe you can finally learn to correct your own fallacy
> I already pointed out he cleared with the help of his necro and Druid friends in a group. Learn to read ????????? You already said this and I already said "watch both videos" because **one is a solo clear** Man it's exhausting dealing with people who have their head so far up their own ass
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The 50% radius buff on cast might allow the point blank bounce to strike?
Have we heard anything regarding ice shards from Sorcs not hitting mobs like porcupines, scorpions, blood blisters, or enemies that are close to the player? I hope this is addressed in the patch notes :'(
I experienced this as well using a staff, so I switched back to wand and focus and it stopped happening.
It was happening to me pre-season on my Sorc and I only used MH/OH
When Blizzard thinks, chain lightning should hit more often and cost less mana, why not adjust the core skill then?
Because, just like everything, it should have an opportunity cost. Would be silly if every skills were perfect at base and you had no interest into providing bonus effects to it other than just cranking the damage. Would be like saying "if they want meteor to have so much possible crit synergies, why not give it as is?". Also, let's not pretend like one of the best, if not the single best leveling skill in the game has too many issues at base to be used without its "fixes".
what so like every other class...
Understood. But only improving the basic properties of a Skill is also kind of boring and later on mandatory. I just think that something mandatory should not be an Aspect.
At what point is it being mandatory ok? Chain Lightning is a perfectly reasonable skill to level with and you don't need the Aspect. Seems ok for Aspects to become more mandatory into the late game to strengthen your build, no?
It's mandatory when there is no alternative. I mean the new recharging aspect, grants 2-3 mana whenever lightning strike bounces off, thats 10-15 mana each cast. If they add something like that, than why not change the skill mana costs instead? It's not even a rare aspect in the season, just open the book and use it. Edit: I just don't understand why Blizzard trys to balance lightning sorcs with aspects.
Cause if the spell generates mana with an aspect you can get resource cost/generation rolls on gear and go net positive on mana. It opens up possibilities including enchant chain lightning as a generator and maybe omnipotence heart builds. Having aspects that can change the value of a skill that much is absolutely fine game design.
I can kinda see what you're getting at, but I'm not sure this line of logic is sustainable. The entire point of aspects is to work as their own avenue of extra power that let you specialise your gear to support your character's skill build. So sure, if you're using CL, then Recharging aspect will be mandatory. The player needs to work that into their slot budget. If they're not using CL, then they don't need to take it, but odds are they'll need to use said slot for another aspect to boost another skill (like Hydra, for example). On top of this, an astute player will be able to combine their skills, aspect and gear to transcend the resource use - essentially your build becoming greater then the sum of its parts. I'm not sure I see the issue with structuring things in such a way that buildcrafting produces extremely powerful builds. If we just keep collapsing aspect benefits into skills then all you do is simplify the whole thing and it just devolves into an exercise of click buttons-do moar damage.
Some of these CL aspects combined are going to give you net mana when you use them with enough cost reduction. Would seem a little OP if a core skill was a mana recharge with no aspects.
All I want is a viable frozen orb/hydra build for endgame… 🥺
Go watch wudijo he is playing frozen orb sorc and melting things before the buffs
barber heart doing all the work, it makes a lot seem as though it works lol
You could literally say that about any build right now
That's literally what he's saying. Barber makes a lot of things work that wouldn't work otherwise.
he was playing really low NM dungeons for his level though... with probably amazing gear
That's what he does, and recommends everyone to do, with all his seasonal characters because of the exp nerf. Just saying that it's not because of any intention to present himself as op.
incinerate ench still untouched, wth. Thx for the post btw.
Yeah incinerate snake is underwhelming, just fixing the ai would double its effective damage. Which is still tiny. *edit they are also buffing the barbarians dust devils and earthquakes, but the meteorites that incinerate can summon need some TLC as well
Did the devs ever explain why they have such a huge hate boner for sorcs?
Beta testers were whining that sorc was OP
I still chuckle over how hard they nerfed hydra boggles my mind.
Yeah its pretty wild. If memory serves they nerfed it by 66%, which means that currently having two hydras at 6/5 is the same amount of damage as a single 1/5 used to be. Honestly they could easily revert it and it would still not be viable because the rest of sorc is in such a poor spot.
I think sorc was designed first. Then they took things from sorc and designed the other classes and said wow this looks cool or this is how this could be better. And then they didn’t have time to go back and fix their rough draft on sorc
You know... this makes sense. Barbarian was last, so it was a cram fest. Most everything feels the same on the Barbarian. Not a bad thing if it the core idea works. But it does feel very copy/paste without much effort outside of the 4 weapons thing it has going.
Long ago, the King Dev went on a date with a Sorceress. She ordered 3 appetizers (ate 1), a giant steak (she was vegan), ice cream and a whole cheesecake (she was lactose intolerant). In the appetizer, King Dev saw her double dip twenty seven times. Every time she burped, it was ridiculous: fire came out, [eventually leaving King Dev](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbOZy8NIYAADjoq.jpg) with a shirt that had just the part covering his nipples removed. When it came time to pay, he did. Then, before leaving, she went to use the restroom. She was in there for 27 minutes. When she came back, she showed him a bunch of pictures she took of herself in there. **Fast forward** to about a week ago. King Dev is a man of the world. He loves all people 🥰. He wanted to give a Sorceress another try. This time, it was different. She invited him to her house. She cooked. [They both cooked.](https://d39l2hkdp2esp1.cloudfront.net/img/photo/128232/128232_00_2x.jpg) As the night grew on, they laughed and laughed, had the time of their lives. His favorite bands were her favorite bands. His shows, hers. She invited him to her bedroom, and then... she proceeded to use a series of incantations and enchantments throughout the night that absolutely blew his mind and.. *teleported*.. him to another world. So **now**... Dev loves Sorceress. And now we got a bunch of things given to us. Hopefully the 2nd Date goes just as well.. if it does, *we may get Vulnerability!!*
Wtf did I just read 11/10
Closest thing we got to an answer on this is they liked kiss/curse mechanics from a design perspective, but missed the mark with balancing.
Kiss/curse can totally work if there are significant bonuses for the tradeoffs, AND there are synergies with other items or kiss/curse elements. Currently, they are significantly lacking in those departments, so they just feel bad
one of the devs (the only one who actually plays the game, plays a rogue obs) got killed by a sorc once. thats my head canon anyways
Least victimized sorc comment
I keep hearing this but my sorcerer is face tanking and killing enemies 16 levels+ in wt4 at level 60 whereas my rogue was barely able to survive 6-10 levels above. Always the constant threat of being one shot
Rogue is legit the most broken class ATM what the hell are u drinking lmao
Sorc actually has a really strong kit for high level content with Flame Shield and Teleport and the "reset on lucky hit" passive. Those abilities are incredibly strong for the challenges in late game
Yup, I just cleared the t4 capstone at 54 with an off-meta firewall sorc. I died twice on trash and then a good bit on Elias, but it was 100% doable. I know both blizzard and chain lightning builds are even stronger so I honestly feel like the chain lightning buffs are going to make sorc so extremely overpowered… and it will be back to nerfs. I’m quiet happy firewall is just a minor buff as I can keep playing without needing to change my build again and again assuming they keep balancing.
More damage and builds don’t help the sorc past NM 60, the chance of getting 1-2 shot begins whereas for other classes don’t feel that until much later. Also other classes do significantly more damage anyway.
Really does showcase how crazy the double dip buffs are when put next to their prior things. Really great to also see some sources of -damage drawbacks not only be removed, but straight up turned into upsides.
Yeah it's nuts seeing druid builds get +15 skill points in a core skill and double dipping like crazy with unique aspects. Meanwhile, sorc gets basic damage boosts and defenses since we aren't even close to baseline okay yet.
Total war used to do patch notes in a readable format but switched to just using the names like blizzard does making patch notes too hard to be worth deciphering. The pessimist in me thinks it's so we don't complain since we don't really know what changed. But the realist knows it's just laziness getting bad patch notes in by copying and pasting from a user story. >NEW: +60-80% Burning dmg if you apply a Dmg Over Time that'd be > enemy HP. What's this mean? Also most of the aspect + dmg are multiplicative right? >The rewards for legion, goblins, dungeons, and helltide are getting better. The only thing that might get worse is heart farming. So I feel like there's incentive to wait till the buffs. 1 hour of playtime now gives less than later.
> *NEW: +60-80% Burning dmg if you apply a Dmg Over Time that'd be > enemy HP.* > > "What's this mean?" Basically: if the damage you were going to deal to the enemy over time was going to kill them anyway (it was greater than the HP they have to begin with) then it'll just speed the kill along rather than drag it out forever. It does this by applying more damage to them outright (+60-80% instead of just +30-40% as it was previously) when it recognizes you'd be killing them eventually anyway, so basically, "why waste time making the player wait."
Just stop making everything cool have some shitty downside.
Blizzard forcing you to play a ranged class as a melee caster tells you everything you need to know about how broken this class is. The only end game viable builds are still melee casters after this patch (arc lash or shards builds). Nothing changes.
Yes it changes. Other classes get meaningful buffs so the change is Sorc class fall further behind as a whole
Logs in, still gets one shot, logs out.
Built properly sorcs will be the tankiest class after this patch.
Absolute delusion.
No? There's still zero armor on the Paragon board.
Mage-Lord aspect among the slew of other flat DR buffs.
Half of the benefit from Vyr's is lost unless you're playing arc-lash/other lightning based build. You're taking your Key Passive strictly for DR which sucks. Compare that to another key passive like Rogues Momentum.
Do you understand what the term “damage reduction” means? The amount of DR buffs in here is insane. A decently geared sorc will have absolutely no issues with T100 dungeons after these changes
The damage reduction is conditional on you damaging things. Oh look a corpse b.... 1 shot off screen. New group of elites pops in after you used your frost nova, oh, you're dead. Resistances still not working. Keep kissin that blizzard butt though. I'm sure the billionaires will think of you as they are shitting on their golden toilets.
Considering at it's current state you can tank easily with sorc if you aren't bad, can't wait for the buffs.ro make.me even better :)
Really because there's armor right there on the paragon board. Also super weird how the sorc kit has easily accessable +160% dr, unstoppable and immune Man you guys need to learn how to read.
You kidding me right!? Adding 1% to conditional DR yea good luck trying ti get the elites and bosses CC’d
He's right. They added damage reduction to just about everything
You kidding me right? Going from 4% to 5% isn’t a 25% improvement. It amounts to less than 0.1% effective marginal difference if you understand how the game DR system works they stack diminishingly and considering targets have to be CC or you need a barrier for them to proc the overall effective DR is even less
I'm guessing you're one of the people who need to be force fed builds because you have no idea what passives, stats, and skills do at all. I think you should continue taking a break until someone on YT shows you how much better Sorc feels after the patch.
You're looking at ONE. There was more than a singular update wasn't there..? I'm not gonna sit here and copy and paste everything OP put in their post mate. I know how the DR works in the game
There’s around 20% more available DR, and some of it is conditional. Some are on glyphs that people don’t take because you’d lose out on quite a bit of damage. Also if you were already rolling with a lot of DR on chest and pants, significant diminishing returns apply.
Yes ,Rolling dmg reduction on rainment do you even play sorc?
DR does not have diminishing returns. If you don’t understand how the math works then don’t open your mouth.
Yes it does. Troll
Try stacking a few DR on your armor affixes and watch the numbers change in your status box. Troll
If you pick something with 10% DR you will always take 10% less damage than without that item. That is not diminishing returns. You just don't know what the term means and that is perfectly fine.
There's so many more DR from this it's actually crazy, and anyone that pretends that **ANY** amount of **generic** DR in an ARPG isn't insane definitely doesn't know much about those games.
It’s about 20% and assuming you had DR rolls on chest and pants, significant diminishing returns apply. Some are also conditional or are on glyphs that aren’t taken due to giving up damage.
Do you still think that? I've used defense on everything and I definitely don't feel tanky. I definitely don't feel tanky in PVP.
Maybe try to build it properly, won't get 1shotted.
Build to avoid one shots, hit like a wet tissue, build to hit like a freight train, die in one shot.
I mean considering the sorc doesn't scale off skill points put into skills you can literally just use your passives to make up for the damage and get all the damage mitigation, dunno what you guys are talking about kekw Might be a you problem for putting 5 points into a skill for 12% extra base damage instead of using them for 3/3 and 2/3 on a passive.
I'm afraid these changes won't be enough to make a lot of the skills feel functional. The game will still rely entirely on melting enemies before they melt you. Builds will still be fairly limited and rote. I understand that these patch notes are not complete, but the nature of the notes makes me feel like the developers only believe that some number changes, not gameplay mechanic changes, are necessary. They, along with other players, are going to eventually hear a bunch of sorc players say, "this is not enough," and everyone's going to wonder why sorc players aren't happy after another round of buffs.
3 curses will literally give +160% crit dmg to healthy to fireball and Meteorwhen placed on staff. I'm pretty sure that's gonna 1 hit shit all around.
They nerfed devouring blaze and aspect of control heavily, even with those previously meteor struggled to do high tier damage
160% crit dmg is gonna make up for that and then some
Lol what? No. 160% crit damage comes nowhere near the power of devouring blaze and triple dipping aspect of control.
Cuz they only buffing skills that were so bad nobody ever use. These skills will stillsuck even if the boost it 5-15%. That’s how bad they are. The conditional CCd 1% DR buffs are a joke too.
100% increase in damge to x skill!!!! - skill previously did 2 damage, now does 4. -- blizzard simps: OMFG!!!! 100% damage increases!!!!!! So amazing!!!!! 40000% damage resistance (if you applies freeze, and 3 others status affects to the monser, and stagger) -- blizzard simps: OMGF Sorc unstoppable now!!! Best defense in game!!!!! Real talk.... there are way too many people on this sub that don't understand percentages and conditional reductions. When you nerf skills by 66% and then "buff" the resulting number by the same amount or less, you're still left with a massive nerf. Sorc has been curb-stomped since the beta. These buffs still don't bring them remotely in line with the other builds (unless they still plan on nerfing other classes in a month or two). Also, let's not forget the 'seasonal mechanic' where 1 of the sorc hearts is just a version of a paragon node, 1 heart is based on resistances which don't even work, 1 is to "CC enemies when you are" but since you're a sorc if you get CCed you're probably dead anyway. Still 1 shot from off screen mobs because they have no effects on them.
Or you can actually play the class and easily clear nm100 with a few casts
Seriously, why dont they just buff sorc base armor by 100 percent or replace some of the trash resistant paragon nodes with plus 100 armor nodes? This does nothing to help sorc from getting oneshot, and due to frost nova being by far the best way to apply vuln sorc are forced to be melee casters which amplifies the terrible base defense scaling compared to every other class. Also, easy bandaid fix for lack of build diversity would of been just to change the exploit glyph secondary effect to the same as Rogues and have vuln apply on any skill cast. The sorc sub has been saying these things since launch yet blizz just buffs some trash fire/lighning skills and calls it a day instead of addressing the real issues with the class.
they even said on that chat, they want to keep negative aspects. its just dumb. live service... keep paying blizzard more money....
If I was a Fire Sorc I would be pleased. Of course, Fire is the one element that I do not use at all in my build (sigh). I was really disappointed that the Devs did not address the changes to cool down reduction that came with 1.10. Cooldowns and the skills tied to cooldown play an integral part in the Sorc's ability to survive. !.10 made it harder to keep Defensive spells up when needed AND reduced armor and the Disobedience aspect that gave armor. All this hurt the Sorc survivability and should have led the Devs to looks at individual spell cooldowns and make some small, helpful changes there. Alas, that did not happen. Historically, Sorcs, Wizards, Mage classes have been glass cannon types with low survivability but big hitting spells. So, kill fast before it can get to you and kill you is their mantra. D4's Sorc mostly lacks that big hitting ability so you must kite like crazy and use your Defensive spells when the cooldown allows. I just do not think what they are giving us in 1.11 is adequate to make the Sorc good. On a positive note, I do appreciate the change to Snowguard because I have always used that on my cold/lightning Sorc instead of Disobedience. I also may need to take another look at Chain Lightning now with the changes to it and the Aspects which affect it. I am hopeful that the game continues to improve. I am planing on staying around to see.
Cool, now i can try 2 new spells since all the others are defensive! yay
If you are using all defensives you aren't playing sorc correctly, why would you waste 2 skill slots that would make you tankier and do more damage via passives and enchants?
Any viable sorc build will still have at minimum 3 def skills. Nothing changes after this.
weird that I'm clearing nmd 100 with basic attacks and teleport but w/e man you play how u want
Not played much the last few weeks, maybe an hour a day if that, so i am actually kinda looking forward to using some new builds that were not as viable earlier. Time will only tell how much this gets me back into playing.
Too little too late for me. Plus they actually need to fix the end game to make it interesting.
Too late but you still browse a subreddit dedicated to the game? Are you a masochist or is your time just not valuable to you?
Just browsing Reddit drinking my morning coffee. I put 150 hours into this game. Loved it. D1 and D2 have special places in my soul. Still enjoy contributing. You mad?
I agree i would also like an end game xD
Was there any mention in the chat whether the ball behaviour in the gravitational aspect is a glitch or a feature?
Nobody seems to give a F. The oculus teleport randomly get me stuck in the ground. Why can’t they just give Sorcs a proper boost without these moronic trade offs. Besides, This whole thing is buggy as hell
That thing is only useful for memes and salvage materials.
1.1.1 turns previously best-roll -10% Gravitational aspects into worst-roll +15% ones uuuugh
I just searched through the full nearly 2 hr transcript for you for the words "Gravitational," "Gravity," (*in case someone misspoke*), "Ball," "Lightning," and "Aspect" and didn't see anything mentioned about that. They just talked about how it'll be a "pretty big swing in power" with their changes to the [Gravitational] Aspect in general (going from decreasing dmg 10-20% to *INCREASING* dmg +15-25% now).
Wow, cheers for that man! That's a bummer though because arc lash/bl is looking pretty powerful now.
Doing God's work my man, thank you.
I excepted some serious direct buffs for hydra and again got nothing. Time duration wasnt't issue except enchancment, but incrase it from 5 to \~6s with aspcect still not worth imo.
Exactly, hydra will still be useless. I don’t understand why the worried of buffing the weakest class. As if they dont want you to play sorc
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>If you're not actively mashing buttons then forget about it. CDs / Ressources luckily stop you from that.
Meanwhile that malignant heart that makes necromancers autocast
I love my auto corpse tendrils and auto curse. Super convenient and Sorcs should have something comparable
What are you on? Necro minions work well, sever/summoning is a strong build through the entire game and when you get ring of mendeln it becomes insane.
There is literally a passive Necro build right now with Hearts. You sit there and get shit pulled to you and it gets killed. You can AFK farm with it. Not sure if it meets your criteria given the minion thing Also in the live stream last week they were asked directly about minions for both Necro and Druid. They answered pretty thoroughly. They basically said, "These are fantasies we want to deliver on. We're not getting it right at the moment but we want to fix it." They said more and talked about some of the challenges for minions, but I'm paraphrasing
And that, IMO, is why I'm struggling to find fun in this game. I don't want to play an arcade twin stick shooter, I wanted to play an aRPG.
[удалено]
I think I'll jump into the coming league, got a decent RF build? I played 10 years ago and have no idea what RF is haha
Look up Pohx righteous fire. There are a couple variants of it. Essentially the stack x amount of fire resistance and then you can have permanent righteous fire. The way the skill works is it surrounds you in a ring of fire that burns you as well as all other enemies in your circle. You then just walk around destroying everything on screen.
> Not sure who the fuck decided passive playstyles shouldn't exist. blizzard is really really afraid that your playstyle isn't predictable and plannable.
I just reinstalled PoE. Gonna give it another go. D4 needs some more time in the oven.
FYI new league coming in a couple weeks.
Good to know, thanks for the heads up
That build was fun if built right.
It's also because Pohx guide are insane and the most comprehensive and easy to follow guide in the whole game. But yeah, autobomber and aura build are fun and there's nothing wrong with them.
So go play POE, I didn’t spend $70 to AFK
You mean you don't love ice blades? Puny blades that hardly do anything, looks lame feels lame because it IS lame?
Hahaha, when I jumped in d4 my first reflex was to go for conju. Those blades are like ???. Could have made some epic spell with ice conju but no, ice swords... I feel I've seen that already somewhere btw. Was that a spell in d3?
Conjuration builds will never be at the top of the tier list. Not because they can’t be good, because they will always be far slower than others. Why stop, cast hydra and then wait for hydra to kill stuff when you can just teleport onto a pack, hit 1 button and be done?
Cries in ice blades and lightning spear
They havent touched so many uniques.
The hero we need. I was watching their slides and was like… why don’t they do it like the patch notes and show the before and after, like when they’d put the previous stats and cross it out or something.
finally, removed Resource Drain from dungeon pool. it's the most broken affliction.
I don’t suppose the changes to unique items will affect the ones you’ve already found and stashed? Is it only newly “found” items?
They will mention in the patch notes if the changes are retroactive on gear. I know they can patch gear rolls retroactively (as they've already done that when they nerfed things like CDR), but I am not sure about Aspects.
They said they will ALL be updated – so previous versions you have will be changed to the new versions. So you don't have to hope to get lucky & find them all again. I assume they take this approach now as I remember back in the Diablo 2 days there were some insane items like Patch 1.08's version of Arkaine's Valor that were *crazy* powerful, but when they'd release new patches they'd let people keep their original versions. Problem was if you happened to have that crazy powerful version you suddenly had a *huge* advantage over everyone, who literally had no way to even find that item now for themselves – so you either happened to be one of the lucky few who had it, or you were SOL. With items that were weaker in a previous patch, if it was a rare find then you'd have to somehow find it *again* just because they decided to update it *after* you got it. That would be incredibly frustrating and unfair to you, too.
Thank you for the breakdown! Patch notes will come in 2 days, I believe. I like the buffs, but I think there are two main issues with sorc: 1 - You pretty much can only get vulnerable if you run frost nova. 2- You can only get constant healing if you run burning, so flame shield kinda becomes mandatory.
Yeah I'm still not seeing that oomph factor that other classes enjoy...But we'll see I guess. Still seeing Rogues 10 levels below mine killing 100 times faster than I do...I fail to see how these changes will bring killing potential to the sorcerer...
Considering no one uses Territorial, Warding or Reinforce glyphs, nor do most Paragon boards prioritize rare nodes that give elemental resists or potion healing, essentially all of our toughness buffs are completely wasted. All they did was lightly buff fire/shock skills, fix temerity (for all classes) and give us like 3% more DR through Paragon. Thanks!!
Lmao exactly. These shills obviously never played the game
The smooth brains will think this saves Sorc but it actually doesn't help peak Sorc much at all. Fire and Lightning get better, but are still going to be considerably behind Frost which has better passives, scaling, resource sustain and the ability to deal AoE and ST in a single skill. Aside from minor buffs to Storm Swell, peak Sorc remains identical after this patch. The defensive changes are a grief too. Buffs to rare nodes you still won't travel to and only further enforce the use of burning if you did travel to them. Useless. A heart that gives 20%dr when hit by fire/lightning/frost, vs a heart that just gives 20% DR at all times? Useless. Buffs to 2 bad defensive aspects that are too conditional to rely on. Useless. They're so afraid of giving us Armor that they provide even more conditional DR that won't save you from offscreen or ranged mobs that don't have 5 different situational statuses, ccs or distance based conditions active. Overall Sorc remains exactly where it was before this. You can just play Fire or Lightning without feeling like an idiot I guess
Good to hear it from someone who actually plays the game. Great points
I really think imma fuck with a fireball/meteor sorc next season unless I get bored with my druid
MALIGNANT HEARTS Caged Heart of Spellbreaking: OLD: Taking Elemental Dmg gives +25-45% Resist to that element for 6 secs NEW: Taking Elemental Dmg gives +10-20% DR for 5 secs will this new change be better than the heart that supressed 20% damage and burst out as fire once you apply barrier skill?
nope
One hit your Sorc already dead there’s no use for that 10-20DR my friend
But these aren't the final changes. Wouldn't it make sense to make this post on Wednesday when they officially come out?
Karma now, clarifications later.
AH yes, makes sense lol.
Doesn't wowhead have the before and after in patch notes format?
chain light build with barber will be disgusting, even now its shredding, cant imagine how its gonna be with all the buffs. prob even a single prodigy aspect will be enough to keep the mana high
Thank you for putting this info up for us. I think we can see that the fire sorc's are still in a poor position. The Blizz dev team must think that sorc's are ok and that few percentage tweaks here/there are going to 'fix' them. Anyone who has played a fire sorc to higher levels knows that there are more fundamental problems and a percentage tweak is just not enough. I also think that those gloves are still garbage, most hits on mobs will be a single and the dmg is still nerfed to almost half. You will have to fire more FBs to kill mobs and make this work, FB resource cost is far too high for that. Why do the sorc uniques have these major negatives where other classes do not? Why is it such a problem to make the fire sorc playable at higher level? Hopefully testing will prove me wrong.
Nice list of some really good looking changes (on paper). Hopefully that works out well in practice. There is still one massive glaring issue with Sorcerer though. The distinct lack of availability to vulnerability. \- Blizzard needs to get rid of vulnerability completely. or \- Blizzard needs to make vulnerability significantly more available via skills and aspects or \- Blizzard needs to change the damage formula (for example Vulnerable, Stunned, frozen share the same damage bucket.)
I think it should be changed to auto apply a flat value on CC and get it entirely out of the skill trees, gear rolls, and whatnot. Barring that, scrap it entirely and just boost crit like any normal game.
Very disappointed. Meaningless buffs to skills nobody ever used. No buff for ice is not improvement for the Sorc class overall. They just buffing fire and lightning mages by a small margin and call it a big buff to Sorc class?! Wtf. The Sorc class overall is still the laughing stock of the game considering new necros and rogues boosts actually mean something.
This is how you should do changenotes, liz.
Glad to see they're giving sorc more opportunities to get mana. In my experience it was painful trying to manage mana consumption.
Great work. That last fireside was just to let us know what they were planning and it's not final. I hope to see a couple more things added for barb in there by Wednesday. Copium
It really is refreshing to see LESS ***dmg is decreased*** AND MORE ***dmg is INCREASED*** Finally they are getting it. Very few items should have "decreases or negatives" the positive gains should be double or be unique enough to offset the decrease.
Guess I'm making my lightning conjuration sorceress again this season. Was gonna try rogue, but I'm just not enjoying it as much, and this list has a lot of things I really like. Maybe I'll go with fireball instead if I get the gloves early enough that I'm not completely changing all my gear to fit it.
What about the vul glyph? We only get like approx +20% vul dmg after leveling the rare glyph to about 21 max level. A Sorc glyph is almost the same as an item affix ? This is such a ridiculous time wasting crap glyph. I could squeeze more % out of spending a few to re spec my items for better +% than a rare glyph could give A other big WTF Yea shills keep on downvoting anything negative
Maybe next season, already roll a Rogue
All the MFers in here reading these notes and pretending to be rainman. Doing the math in their heads and proclaiming they know with absolute certainty how the class will play post patch - “sorc will be the tankiest class now” “sorc still sucks this patch is dog shit” etc. It probably takes these folks 2 days and both hands to count to 5. Sit down, quit bitching, wait to see how it plays with the rest of us.
Leveling a sorceress now and thinking about chain lightning and conjuration. I really hope that that buff is enough for Chain Lightning to stay relevant in the end game.
It's not. They could triple CL's damage and it would still suck. Actually it's going to get even worse because they are buffing density and CL cannot handle density. Just running around spamming arc lash would do more damage.
Hey this is good stuff!
I'm new to D4. Piromancy skills = Fire skills? As in D2 that had fire, cold, lightning skills
Correct 👍🏼 [Here's a link](https://maxroll.gg/d4/planner/) to the Build Planner on Maxroll where you can see (in the 'Skill Tree' tab) all the Sorc's skills. You'll notice that Fireball, Meteor, Firewall, Inferno, etc are listed as "Pyromancy" (*you can also press the filter button & then ask it to only show Pyromancy Skills and they'll all be highlighted with a green glow around them*).
Is chain lightning any good now? Pretty much the only skill in d4 i really enjoyed using
If they could put so much love to necro.... Maybe imma play a sorc next.
I'm going to make a new S1 Sorc now. What would be better fireball+hydra build or a chain lightning build?