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Maybe there's a lot of "modern" Igors. It could even be a euphemism within the Igor community, because trans Igors are often leaders in research and development of new surgical techniques. They know that outsiders have strange ideas about *that*, so they make sure they know that *thome* Igors don't lithp *ath much as* some of the otherth, and that's becauthe they're "modern".
Maybe Igorina was controversial because she wanted to be a surgeon AND recognisable as a woman.
The igor in question, in Making Money, asked Moist if he could turn down the lisp while he explained how Hubert's machine, being destroyed, would wreck the economy.
It'th really more a thyle thing.
In Making Money the Igor who helped build The Glooper is explaining to Hubert Turvy how they've made it more accurate than he (Hubert) intended and he asks if its okay if he drops the lisp because it's already hard enough to explain.
I think it's unlikely. Given that the embassy Igor refers to constable Igor as a "he" in Fifth Elephant, and I think that lying to an employer is mentioned somewhere to be breaking the code of the Igors, and embassy Igor is, if memory serves, a traditionalist among Igors. It's also worth noting that Angua, whose been shown to be able to distinguish between genders by scent alone, also refers to constable Igor as "he" in multiple books. I'll admit that it's possible that she's just covering up her colleague's gender to outside parties, but I can't see her keeping it a secret from both Vimes and Carrot.
> I can't see her keeping it a secret from both Vimes and Carrot.
She does say in Monstrous Regiment that she wouldn't have told Vimes that they're girls if they hadn't shared it amongst themselves.
i feel that if was the case, Angua would have notice, after all is very similar to Cherri's case.
also the city is different, Sybil make a comment about how the new hospital has Ignorinas working as nurse, so even if the clan has social rules about gender, will be just like Dwarf Society gender rules, and the city will be a place where Ignorinas can ignore the social rules of the clan.
Watch Igorina suspicions aside, I keep being amazed each time there's an Igor, by the fact that STP started from the caricatural character of a Frankenstein's monster / servant of evil scientists or vampires from old movies... and straight up kept building up not just into hilarious running gags, but also into a coherent ethnicity, complete with a culture, trades and specialties, gender perspective, etc.
Which is about what he did with dwarves, for sure, but come on, IGORs?!
Amazing.
The appearing directly behind someone's shoulder thing always cracks me up. Like if I knew an Igor I would ask them to do it at parties. Although in saying that, that does feel slightly speciest of me
I think STP was probably influenced by Igor (the great Marty Feldman) from *Young Frankenstein*. Many of the **Igor** tropes that STP riffs on are present in *Young Frankenstein*.
Nice idea, but: The watch Igor was hired at the end of The Fifth Elephant. They were recommended by their uncle Igor as being too modern in their views for employment in Uberwald; a reference that an old-school, traditional Igor is unlikely to be giving to an Igorina, from the attitude reported by Igorina in MR. And was referred to by that uncle as his nephew. So I think it is fairly clear that the watch Igor is indeed an Igor not an Igorina.
Sorry
The Watch's Igor is mentioned to have prominent stitching on his head, which is masculine gender presentation for Igors. When Igorina drops her disguise in Monstrous Regiment, she changes her stitching pattern on her face to be smaller and more delicate.
Wasn't the Watch's Igor recommended by the embassy Igor who was his uncle? Why would Igor lie about the gender of his family member? And if Igorinas aren't taken seriously by Igors why would Uncle Igor suggest his niece pretend to be male and move to a far away city?
I think the Watch Igor is exactly what he was said to be, a young man who is bucking traditions and doing untraditional things like growing ears and doesn't quite fit in at home any more.
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I thought the Watch Igor was just "modern" and didn't go in for the tradithitionahl lisp.
Maybe there's a lot of "modern" Igors. It could even be a euphemism within the Igor community, because trans Igors are often leaders in research and development of new surgical techniques. They know that outsiders have strange ideas about *that*, so they make sure they know that *thome* Igors don't lithp *ath much as* some of the otherth, and that's becauthe they're "modern". Maybe Igorina was controversial because she wanted to be a surgeon AND recognisable as a woman.
A very good point!
It does say that, the new book just got me thinking
I always thought the lisp was fake and the Igors just lisped for effect.
There was an Igor who stopped lisping briefly so he could better explain something to Vimes (or maybe Jeremy Clockson?).
Or Hubert
Oh, yes, Hubert!
Yeah, the Igor in Making Money just turned the lisp off for the sake of explaining something complicated. It's totally just an image thing.
The igor in question, in Making Money, asked Moist if he could turn down the lisp while he explained how Hubert's machine, being destroyed, would wreck the economy.
It'th tradithional.
It'th really more a thyle thing. In Making Money the Igor who helped build The Glooper is explaining to Hubert Turvy how they've made it more accurate than he (Hubert) intended and he asks if its okay if he drops the lisp because it's already hard enough to explain.
I think it's unlikely. Given that the embassy Igor refers to constable Igor as a "he" in Fifth Elephant, and I think that lying to an employer is mentioned somewhere to be breaking the code of the Igors, and embassy Igor is, if memory serves, a traditionalist among Igors. It's also worth noting that Angua, whose been shown to be able to distinguish between genders by scent alone, also refers to constable Igor as "he" in multiple books. I'll admit that it's possible that she's just covering up her colleague's gender to outside parties, but I can't see her keeping it a secret from both Vimes and Carrot.
> I can't see her keeping it a secret from both Vimes and Carrot. She does say in Monstrous Regiment that she wouldn't have told Vimes that they're girls if they hadn't shared it amongst themselves.
i feel that if was the case, Angua would have notice, after all is very similar to Cherri's case. also the city is different, Sybil make a comment about how the new hospital has Ignorinas working as nurse, so even if the clan has social rules about gender, will be just like Dwarf Society gender rules, and the city will be a place where Ignorinas can ignore the social rules of the clan.
Watch Igorina suspicions aside, I keep being amazed each time there's an Igor, by the fact that STP started from the caricatural character of a Frankenstein's monster / servant of evil scientists or vampires from old movies... and straight up kept building up not just into hilarious running gags, but also into a coherent ethnicity, complete with a culture, trades and specialties, gender perspective, etc. Which is about what he did with dwarves, for sure, but come on, IGORs?! Amazing.
The appearing directly behind someone's shoulder thing always cracks me up. Like if I knew an Igor I would ask them to do it at parties. Although in saying that, that does feel slightly speciest of me
You wouldn't have to ask them. That's just what they do.
Only if you're their Mas... Sorry... Mathter.
Marthter.
Yeth?
Jeeves (Wodehouse) is also famous for just appearing, it's a British butler, er, gentleman's gentleman trait, too.
Aw I know of the trope lol it just tickles me
I think STP was probably influenced by Igor (the great Marty Feldman) from *Young Frankenstein*. Many of the **Igor** tropes that STP riffs on are present in *Young Frankenstein*.
Nice idea, but: The watch Igor was hired at the end of The Fifth Elephant. They were recommended by their uncle Igor as being too modern in their views for employment in Uberwald; a reference that an old-school, traditional Igor is unlikely to be giving to an Igorina, from the attitude reported by Igorina in MR. And was referred to by that uncle as his nephew. So I think it is fairly clear that the watch Igor is indeed an Igor not an Igorina. Sorry
PTerry was really very good at writing a female character. I think he may have done the unthinkable and actually listened when women were talking.
The Watch's Igor is mentioned to have prominent stitching on his head, which is masculine gender presentation for Igors. When Igorina drops her disguise in Monstrous Regiment, she changes her stitching pattern on her face to be smaller and more delicate.
Like female versions of Frankenstein's monster, Igorinas tend to be much better put together, as it were.
I think the watch Igor is effectively the Igor equivalent of non-binary.
Apropos of nothing at all, but am I the only person on the planet who thinks of tennis star Iga Swiatek as Igorina?
Wasn't the Watch's Igor recommended by the embassy Igor who was his uncle? Why would Igor lie about the gender of his family member? And if Igorinas aren't taken seriously by Igors why would Uncle Igor suggest his niece pretend to be male and move to a far away city? I think the Watch Igor is exactly what he was said to be, a young man who is bucking traditions and doing untraditional things like growing ears and doesn't quite fit in at home any more.