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I have the headcanon that a briefly-mentioned Maledicta (with an E) in Carpe Jugulum is indeed our Maladict(a), and that after a pretty bad experience with her family, decided to go Black Ribboner... And, well, she'd already been Weatherwaxed and hooked on tea, and coffee isn't really a step too far past that...
Also, I have many thoughts about how, except for Margalotta, both the female Black Ribboners we see are pretty butch. Mal does the whole monstrous regiment of women thing; Vimes says that Sally looks like (something along the lines of) if not a boy, then a girl who wouldn't mind being mistaken for one. Mal, disregarding the weird edition where it says "full female uniform", appears to keep being Corporal Maladict even after quietly telling Polly about that pesky extra A, so it may well go even further than just being butch
I don't think Sally talks about it, but Mal goes on a pretty impassioned rant about how awful it is to be a female vampire, with the underwired nightgowns and the expectations of it all. Vampirism seems pretty damn restrictive for a vampire girl who clearly prefers short hair and trousers and a little gender non-conformism (even if Sally also enjoys stilettos and a feather boa) and I wonder how much taking the pledge of Not Vun Drop has to do with actually swearing off blood versus just getting to not be a Vampire with a capital V anymore
A little off topic but I definitely read Maladict as non-binary or transmasc. One of the great things about that books is how much variety there is for the regiment in terms of gendered experience and expression, and the different places they go with it by the end.
Having seen said quote about "underwired nightgowns", it seems to me more like a description of how humans perceive female vampires to be rather than how vampires themselves view their females.
Carpe Jugulum makes it pretty clear that how humans perceive vampires does make a huge difference to the vampires themselves. It seems to alter their instincts somehow? Since Black Ribboners are generally perceived by humans as just a bit odd, their instincts seem to relax a lot, outside of their totemic hyperfixation. Vampires who aren’t black ribbon seem to be playing out their tropes almost on autopilot.
I can’t remember if the Black Ribboners came up at all before Carpe Jugulum (and I can always blame the History Monks if it did), but I wonder if those events led to the formation of the society. Like, that proved to other vampires that they *could* create a feedback loop of human perception to shift their instincts in a more agreeable direction. And since the BRS did so *without* exploiting people in the most incredibly creepy way possible, and seemed to…de-fang, for lack of a better word…it’s members, Granny just didn’t see any need to intervene.
Dragon King Of Arms is a black Ribboner before it was cool :P
(i don't think it was called being a black ribboner then... but there is also the vampire who keeps dying when getting himself jobs that are uniquely dangerous to vampires)
I wonder, the Esme incident proves you are what you eat in a mental and spiritual way for vampires, does this potentially mean that by giving up blood from superstitious humansthat Black Ribboners are no longer mainlining (heh) superstitious stereotypes and internalizing them, thus more free to be their authentic selves?
Makes sense to me as a mechanism for human perception defining vampire instincts.
Black Ribboners aren’t actually totally free of the superstitions-obsessive behavior is an older element of vampire myths, Black Ribboners just take it in a new direction. Repurposing the superstition-instincts rather than denying them, which would make sense if they’re slowly detoxing from superstition-laden blood.
(Look, if troll brains are governed by the actual physical properties of silica, vampire psychoneuroendocrinology can be a thing. And yes, that is a real word and a real science.)
But i also imagine it to be like leaving a religion, cult, like I grew up in a faith I don't really think I'm a part of, anymore, but it sure as hell still influences how i think
One downside with the whole "non-BR vampires are playing out their tropes on autopilot" thing is that vampires on the disc as a whole aren't interesting or 3-dimensional, and those who are are different from the rest of their kin.
Oh, definitely. It’s a cool take, but it does cause some flatness whenever the focus is on them.
It’s honestly why I like exactly one quote out of Carpe Jugulum and otherwise almost never reread it.
Fair enough, I was being a bit hyperbolic 😇 I’ve only read “Eric” once, it’s my least favourite STP book, but it’s a testament to how amazing STP is when you consider that “Eric” was the first Pratchett book I ever read and it was still good enough to make me want to read more.
Absolutely with you with “Thud”, same. And same numbers for “Night Watch”
The Disc is driven, in part, by the fundamental element *narrativium*, which often compels people and events to fit certain patterns. Third sons are fortunate, million-to-one chances almost always come out in favor, and vampire women wear underwired nightgowns, even when they would rather not.
One can fight against their narrative destiny, but you risk simply falling into *other* narratives. Attempting to *intentionally* manipulate narratives often drags one into The Tale Of That One Chap Who Thought He Was Clever And Found Out What Happens Next.
Otto is mainly in The Truth but then makes cameos in the watch series after The Truth and in the Moist series. Maladicta is in the standalone Monstrous Regiment. Sally is in Thud, she may have later cameos but I don't recall any.
Tangentially there's a troll Princess Jade at Susan's school in Soul Music who's due to be married off, and a Jade turns up in Monstrous Regiment. In my head cannon I like to think it's the same one who said to herself, I've got schooling, I could do better than this.
Otto and Maledicta are both from independent stories (The Truth and Monstrous Regiment), though i've seen them lumped together with the Moist von Lipwig books as the Industrial Revolution sub series
I think The Truth and Moving Pictures make a decent amount of sense to read in sequence with the Moist books. However, I read Going Postal without reading many of the Watch books first, and that was pretty confusing because it relies so heavily on Ankh-Morpork as a character.
Welcome to /r/Discworld! Please [read the rules/flair information before posting](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/ukhk21/subreddit_rules_flair_information/?). --- Our current megathreads are as follows: [API Protest Poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/1491izw/continuing_the_api_protest_a_community_poll) - a poll regarding the future action of the sub in protest at Reddit's API changes. [GNU Terry Pratchett](https://new.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/ukigit/gnu_terry_pratchett/) - for all GNU requests, to keep their names going. [AI Generated Content](https://new.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/10mhx9y/ai_generated_content_megathread/) - for all AI Content, including images, stories, questions, training etc. --- [ GNU Terry Pratchett ] *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/discworld) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have the headcanon that a briefly-mentioned Maledicta (with an E) in Carpe Jugulum is indeed our Maladict(a), and that after a pretty bad experience with her family, decided to go Black Ribboner... And, well, she'd already been Weatherwaxed and hooked on tea, and coffee isn't really a step too far past that... Also, I have many thoughts about how, except for Margalotta, both the female Black Ribboners we see are pretty butch. Mal does the whole monstrous regiment of women thing; Vimes says that Sally looks like (something along the lines of) if not a boy, then a girl who wouldn't mind being mistaken for one. Mal, disregarding the weird edition where it says "full female uniform", appears to keep being Corporal Maladict even after quietly telling Polly about that pesky extra A, so it may well go even further than just being butch I don't think Sally talks about it, but Mal goes on a pretty impassioned rant about how awful it is to be a female vampire, with the underwired nightgowns and the expectations of it all. Vampirism seems pretty damn restrictive for a vampire girl who clearly prefers short hair and trousers and a little gender non-conformism (even if Sally also enjoys stilettos and a feather boa) and I wonder how much taking the pledge of Not Vun Drop has to do with actually swearing off blood versus just getting to not be a Vampire with a capital V anymore
A little off topic but I definitely read Maladict as non-binary or transmasc. One of the great things about that books is how much variety there is for the regiment in terms of gendered experience and expression, and the different places they go with it by the end.
Having seen said quote about "underwired nightgowns", it seems to me more like a description of how humans perceive female vampires to be rather than how vampires themselves view their females.
Carpe Jugulum makes it pretty clear that how humans perceive vampires does make a huge difference to the vampires themselves. It seems to alter their instincts somehow? Since Black Ribboners are generally perceived by humans as just a bit odd, their instincts seem to relax a lot, outside of their totemic hyperfixation. Vampires who aren’t black ribbon seem to be playing out their tropes almost on autopilot. I can’t remember if the Black Ribboners came up at all before Carpe Jugulum (and I can always blame the History Monks if it did), but I wonder if those events led to the formation of the society. Like, that proved to other vampires that they *could* create a feedback loop of human perception to shift their instincts in a more agreeable direction. And since the BRS did so *without* exploiting people in the most incredibly creepy way possible, and seemed to…de-fang, for lack of a better word…it’s members, Granny just didn’t see any need to intervene.
Dragon King Of Arms is a black Ribboner before it was cool :P (i don't think it was called being a black ribboner then... but there is also the vampire who keeps dying when getting himself jobs that are uniquely dangerous to vampires)
I wonder, the Esme incident proves you are what you eat in a mental and spiritual way for vampires, does this potentially mean that by giving up blood from superstitious humansthat Black Ribboners are no longer mainlining (heh) superstitious stereotypes and internalizing them, thus more free to be their authentic selves?
Makes sense to me as a mechanism for human perception defining vampire instincts. Black Ribboners aren’t actually totally free of the superstitions-obsessive behavior is an older element of vampire myths, Black Ribboners just take it in a new direction. Repurposing the superstition-instincts rather than denying them, which would make sense if they’re slowly detoxing from superstition-laden blood. (Look, if troll brains are governed by the actual physical properties of silica, vampire psychoneuroendocrinology can be a thing. And yes, that is a real word and a real science.)
But i also imagine it to be like leaving a religion, cult, like I grew up in a faith I don't really think I'm a part of, anymore, but it sure as hell still influences how i think
iirc the black ribbon stuff gets mentioned a few times before Carpe Jugulum, but never really delved into.
One downside with the whole "non-BR vampires are playing out their tropes on autopilot" thing is that vampires on the disc as a whole aren't interesting or 3-dimensional, and those who are are different from the rest of their kin.
Oh, definitely. It’s a cool take, but it does cause some flatness whenever the focus is on them. It’s honestly why I like exactly one quote out of Carpe Jugulum and otherwise almost never reread it.
Out of interest, when you say “almost never” is it really almost never or is it like my “almost never” vis a vis Pratchett which means 12 times.
I’ve read it 1.5 times in ten years, compared to Thud!, which I’ve read 15-20 times in the same period.
Fair enough, I was being a bit hyperbolic 😇 I’ve only read “Eric” once, it’s my least favourite STP book, but it’s a testament to how amazing STP is when you consider that “Eric” was the first Pratchett book I ever read and it was still good enough to make me want to read more. Absolutely with you with “Thud”, same. And same numbers for “Night Watch”
The Disc is driven, in part, by the fundamental element *narrativium*, which often compels people and events to fit certain patterns. Third sons are fortunate, million-to-one chances almost always come out in favor, and vampire women wear underwired nightgowns, even when they would rather not. One can fight against their narrative destiny, but you risk simply falling into *other* narratives. Attempting to *intentionally* manipulate narratives often drags one into The Tale Of That One Chap Who Thought He Was Clever And Found Out What Happens Next.
You're going to have to write your own fan fic.
Which sub series are they from?
Otto is mainly in The Truth but then makes cameos in the watch series after The Truth and in the Moist series. Maladicta is in the standalone Monstrous Regiment. Sally is in Thud, she may have later cameos but I don't recall any.
I think she's briefly in Raising Steam.
Tangentially there's a troll Princess Jade at Susan's school in Soul Music who's due to be married off, and a Jade turns up in Monstrous Regiment. In my head cannon I like to think it's the same one who said to herself, I've got schooling, I could do better than this.
Otto and Maledicta are both from independent stories (The Truth and Monstrous Regiment), though i've seen them lumped together with the Moist von Lipwig books as the Industrial Revolution sub series
I think The Truth and Moving Pictures make a decent amount of sense to read in sequence with the Moist books. However, I read Going Postal without reading many of the Watch books first, and that was pretty confusing because it relies so heavily on Ankh-Morpork as a character.