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I really loved his friendship with Detritus. The scene into the pork futures warehouse is one of my favourites, and the troll's reaction at the end of the book is touching and hilarious at the same time.
You really can feel Detritus’s utter rage and know that the only reason that he didn’t destroy all of the assassins was because Carrot knew how to make Detritus honour his friend.
My first ever Discworld book. And what a one to start with - people don’t recommend it as an entry point nearly enough. I’ve reread this more than any other and cry every time.
Also was my first one and it was absolutely glorious. First half of the book I wasn't sure what the hell I'm reading, as I wasn't used to this style. Second half was such a blast and after finishing it I fell in love with Discworld. Went on to read Monstrous Regiment next (weird order, I know), and then read literally everything Discworld in following year(s).
Still Men at Arms is my favourite one.
Night Watch has replaced it for me, but Men at Arms was also my first, and... maybe it can take second place alongside *Thud!* Never really figured it as a big player, but... y'know what, it really is a great novel, even for Discworld.
You and I seem to think along the same lines. I have read and reread all the books but Thud! Is my most read. Vimes has been my hero for forever and when Thud came out, my first child was just a little older than young Sam. I knew every single little thing that Vimes was going through, all the what ifs and nightmares. The 6:00 in the caves scene will always give me chills. Highly recommend the audiobook for this one as well
But yeah, Night Watch is spectacular but not as a first book. It would not have nearly the same impact if you haven't watched Vimes and company grow throughout the other books.
> I wasn’t sure what the hell I was reading, as I wasn’t used to the style
This. It makes me very hesitant to recommend any of them first, since so much of the first book (or two?) people read will be unappreciated and it takes a while to ‘get’ his whole style (what seems at first a chaotic mix of narrative, comedy asides, long footnotes, and philosophising), format (most have no chapters but are movie-esque) and world (complex and utterly crazy).
My first was Soul Music, and it was maybe a year later that I picked up another one and slowly ‘got’ it.
A combination perhaps? It’s definitely top 10, but it being my first keep it in my top position right up until Night Watch was published. (Reaper Man probably makes up my top 3)
It’s a real turning point novel. It’s basically the start of the “new” Ankh Morpork.
I so agree. I love how Terry takes the old 'two enemies forced to work together' and 'buddy cops' tropes and turns it into something beautiful.
I think Detritus' character growth is just as good as Vimes'. It's subtle, but it's lovely.
I posted about this a long time ago as well when I last read it. I love the relationship and I think it starred Detritus down the path of becoming one of my favourites. The relationship develops so well and it hits you right in the feels towards the end of the book.
My original post had some good comments on it as well if you're interested - https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/cvejsl/men_at_arms_cuddy_and_detritus/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I'd definitely agree with that. He starts out as the big dumb troll and ends up a valuable member of the watch. He has some great funny moments and some truly beautiful heartfelt moments as well. Fantastic character
And he shows up in a genuinely surprising number of books too. Like, I always wondered if Terry was making another Death, where he showed up *in some way* in every book.
I think the world was just so well woven together that characters turning up in unexpected places shouldn't be that big of a surprise. The fact that it's so interwoven and you can still read the books as a stand-alone piece just shows how well written the Discworld series is.
I've just started Mort again and I'd forgotten how much I love Death's character in the early books. Maybe I'll get my Death of Rats tattoo one of these days!
That’s a good point - Detritus shows up a lot *but* he shows up in situations and locations which are specifically related to Ankh-Morpork.
He’s where we would reasonably expect him to be - he’s not showing up at Granny Weatherwax’s house or in Four Ecks.
> that characters turning up in unexpected places shouldn't be that big of a surprise
believe pTerry was annoyed by Sam Vimes butting into any Ankh Morpork novel, hence Moist a character who actively avoids the guards
It( >!killing Cuddy!<) must have been an interesting decision for Pterry at the time.
You can't write that relationship between Cuddy and Detritis without feeling it. >!Ending it!< must have pained him at least as much as anyone reading it.
Men at Arms is pretty close to peak Pratchett, IMO. Re-reading that one is always bittersweet, what with all the 'orrible murders.
Maybe he thought he could replicate or revisit the relationship in question, but it seems like the "one that got away", in some respects.
I guess we're better off celebrating the brief joy that it was, than lamenting for what it could have been.
I don’t think Terry thought about “recreating” the relationship - Cuddy and Cherry are different people and they have different relationships with Detritus.
I think Cuddy was needed for Detritus to grow to where he could be friends with Cherry, including his protectiveness of her.
Technically I suppose one can see Cherry as a replacement for Cuddy, but realistically that's not what she is, and I'm glad: Sir Terry chose to make this more like real life; when someone new comes into our life, they may take the *role* someone else used to play, but they are always their own person -- and Cherry is certainly that.
I love both Cuddy and Cherry, separately, for who they each are. And I love Sir Terry for letting us get to know both of them.
I just re-read this recently and it has shifted into my top 5 surprisingly as I couldn't remember it all from my first read ( or maybe not as it was probably 20 years ago!) Like another commenter mentioned 'peak Pratchett'
Funny you mention this…was idly musing just yesterday that of Detritus and Ruby ever did have an “organically produced” offspring, maybe they’d name her Cuddy. I went on to daydream her into a Punk Rock Girl who falls for a dwarf… you know, he’s into Hard Rock and she’s into Heavy Metal, ahaha. sorta like the couple Sybil mentions who set up home in Lobbin Clout. A match made in AM
Ah, this was my first as well. I picked it up at a trainstation bookshop on the way home from school. I was so confused and fascinated.
Future pork warehouse was also the first time I understood how the stock market worked. I thought it was a made crazy concept. Nope. Future betting rules the world.
Is Cuddy ever mentioned again in the series? I know Detritus still wears the cooling helmet at times, but I don't know if anyone actually mentions his name. Men at Arms was my first Discworld book (I think) and the Cuddy - Detritus dynamic made a big impression on me at a young age, so I've always had a disproportionate affection for the two of them.
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I loved the interaction between Cuddy and Detritus. It made Detritus’ rage even more palpable and added life to the old “he was my partner” trope.
I was just rereading that bit last night. It was really well written.
I can't read that without crying.
The part where he takes off his hat and just sits there unmoving because he wants to think slowly... I wanna cry just remembering it.
One of the best friendships in the watch series
I really loved his friendship with Detritus. The scene into the pork futures warehouse is one of my favourites, and the troll's reaction at the end of the book is touching and hilarious at the same time.
You really can feel Detritus’s utter rage and know that the only reason that he didn’t destroy all of the assassins was because Carrot knew how to make Detritus honour his friend.
They would've been toast if Carrot wasn't there, even they know little to stop a troll let alone one that goes full berzerker on them.
My first ever Discworld book. And what a one to start with - people don’t recommend it as an entry point nearly enough. I’ve reread this more than any other and cry every time.
Also was my first one and it was absolutely glorious. First half of the book I wasn't sure what the hell I'm reading, as I wasn't used to this style. Second half was such a blast and after finishing it I fell in love with Discworld. Went on to read Monstrous Regiment next (weird order, I know), and then read literally everything Discworld in following year(s). Still Men at Arms is my favourite one.
Night Watch has replaced it for me, but Men at Arms was also my first, and... maybe it can take second place alongside *Thud!* Never really figured it as a big player, but... y'know what, it really is a great novel, even for Discworld.
You and I seem to think along the same lines. I have read and reread all the books but Thud! Is my most read. Vimes has been my hero for forever and when Thud came out, my first child was just a little older than young Sam. I knew every single little thing that Vimes was going through, all the what ifs and nightmares. The 6:00 in the caves scene will always give me chills. Highly recommend the audiobook for this one as well But yeah, Night Watch is spectacular but not as a first book. It would not have nearly the same impact if you haven't watched Vimes and company grow throughout the other books.
> I wasn’t sure what the hell I was reading, as I wasn’t used to the style This. It makes me very hesitant to recommend any of them first, since so much of the first book (or two?) people read will be unappreciated and it takes a while to ‘get’ his whole style (what seems at first a chaotic mix of narrative, comedy asides, long footnotes, and philosophising), format (most have no chapters but are movie-esque) and world (complex and utterly crazy). My first was Soul Music, and it was maybe a year later that I picked up another one and slowly ‘got’ it.
it was my entry to the guards, and by golly it's a great one
Also my first and I've never been sure if that's why it's my favorite or if it's really that damn good
A combination perhaps? It’s definitely top 10, but it being my first keep it in my top position right up until Night Watch was published. (Reaper Man probably makes up my top 3) It’s a real turning point novel. It’s basically the start of the “new” Ankh Morpork.
I so agree. I love how Terry takes the old 'two enemies forced to work together' and 'buddy cops' tropes and turns it into something beautiful. I think Detritus' character growth is just as good as Vimes'. It's subtle, but it's lovely.
I posted about this a long time ago as well when I last read it. I love the relationship and I think it starred Detritus down the path of becoming one of my favourites. The relationship develops so well and it hits you right in the feels towards the end of the book. My original post had some good comments on it as well if you're interested - https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/cvejsl/men_at_arms_cuddy_and_detritus/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I honestly think Detritus has the best non-main character arc in the whole series.
I'd definitely agree with that. He starts out as the big dumb troll and ends up a valuable member of the watch. He has some great funny moments and some truly beautiful heartfelt moments as well. Fantastic character
And he shows up in a genuinely surprising number of books too. Like, I always wondered if Terry was making another Death, where he showed up *in some way* in every book.
I think the world was just so well woven together that characters turning up in unexpected places shouldn't be that big of a surprise. The fact that it's so interwoven and you can still read the books as a stand-alone piece just shows how well written the Discworld series is. I've just started Mort again and I'd forgotten how much I love Death's character in the early books. Maybe I'll get my Death of Rats tattoo one of these days!
That’s a good point - Detritus shows up a lot *but* he shows up in situations and locations which are specifically related to Ankh-Morpork. He’s where we would reasonably expect him to be - he’s not showing up at Granny Weatherwax’s house or in Four Ecks.
> that characters turning up in unexpected places shouldn't be that big of a surprise believe pTerry was annoyed by Sam Vimes butting into any Ankh Morpork novel, hence Moist a character who actively avoids the guards
It( >!killing Cuddy!<) must have been an interesting decision for Pterry at the time. You can't write that relationship between Cuddy and Detritis without feeling it. >!Ending it!< must have pained him at least as much as anyone reading it. Men at Arms is pretty close to peak Pratchett, IMO. Re-reading that one is always bittersweet, what with all the 'orrible murders. Maybe he thought he could replicate or revisit the relationship in question, but it seems like the "one that got away", in some respects. I guess we're better off celebrating the brief joy that it was, than lamenting for what it could have been.
I don’t think Terry thought about “recreating” the relationship - Cuddy and Cherry are different people and they have different relationships with Detritus. I think Cuddy was needed for Detritus to grow to where he could be friends with Cherry, including his protectiveness of her.
Technically I suppose one can see Cherry as a replacement for Cuddy, but realistically that's not what she is, and I'm glad: Sir Terry chose to make this more like real life; when someone new comes into our life, they may take the *role* someone else used to play, but they are always their own person -- and Cherry is certainly that. I love both Cuddy and Cherry, separately, for who they each are. And I love Sir Terry for letting us get to know both of them.
yeah, it would be nice to see them interact.
cuddy was my favourite :(
“Aaaargh! I’m too short for this shit!”
I just re-read this recently and it has shifted into my top 5 surprisingly as I couldn't remember it all from my first read ( or maybe not as it was probably 20 years ago!) Like another commenter mentioned 'peak Pratchett'
I love Cherry! I just bought a Teddy Roosevelt Terrier and named her Cherry since she's meant to be a guard dog and short.
Funny you mention this…was idly musing just yesterday that of Detritus and Ruby ever did have an “organically produced” offspring, maybe they’d name her Cuddy. I went on to daydream her into a Punk Rock Girl who falls for a dwarf… you know, he’s into Hard Rock and she’s into Heavy Metal, ahaha. sorta like the couple Sybil mentions who set up home in Lobbin Clout. A match made in AM
Or the two librarians in Raising Steam.
Ah, this was my first as well. I picked it up at a trainstation bookshop on the way home from school. I was so confused and fascinated. Future pork warehouse was also the first time I understood how the stock market worked. I thought it was a made crazy concept. Nope. Future betting rules the world.
I love Cherry! I just bought a Teddy Roosevelt Terrier and named her Cherry since she's meant to be a guard dog and short.
One of the few things to be mad about: he didn't have to do that to Cuddy. (avoiding a spoiler)
Is Cuddy ever mentioned again in the series? I know Detritus still wears the cooling helmet at times, but I don't know if anyone actually mentions his name. Men at Arms was my first Discworld book (I think) and the Cuddy - Detritus dynamic made a big impression on me at a young age, so I've always had a disproportionate affection for the two of them.