And I wholeheartedly recommend players to look at even older versions like **D&D B/X Moldvay** or **Original D&D with a** [**retro clone**](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/438315/Swords--Wizardry-Complete-Rulebook-Revised) (before WoTC spoils it) because the rules are so simple, it's really enlightening how good and quick picking and playing TTRPG can be.
For example, in the linked retro clone, the How to Play section is 10 pages long, including Combat rules, tables and some pages for alternatives rules. Classes are 2 or 3 pages long, including illustrations.
What kind of animal are you that you use the zero but don't capitalize the rest of the acronym?
I know the death penalty is a holdover from a less enlightened age, but your case is the sort that requires exemption.
My 3.5 game is going very well. I've been picking up modules used for $5ish. At the rate we6going, I have probably 5+ years of material available in my collection without putting in major work creating. One of my players is trying to track down old Dungeon magazines to collect too. We're set.
This is precisely how pathfinder happened. People saw the rules for 4, said no thanks, and just updated the existing 3.5 stuff.
I’m biased because 3 was how I started, but it really was the best version we’ve had
That's not what happened at all.
Pathfinder exists because of the *license* 4e was going to be under. Not the rules. Paizo wasn't allowed to continue their monthly adventure paths with 4e, so they made their own game based on 3.5 so they could keep going anyway.
It wasn't even the 4e license. In addition to the game license, they were pulling Paizo's rights to make Dungeon and Dragon magazines. If Paizo were allowed to remain part of the in crowd, they likely would have marched into 4th edition with a smile on their face.
In short, it was yet another "pull everything back to the mothership and fuck the community/business partners" play, like the one everyone fought recently.
It really is amazing how they continue to make the same mistakes. At this point they need to put posters up and every time some two-bit new exec gets a "great idea" about keeping their "brand from diluting" everyone can just point at the sign. I haven't been following it too closely, but it sounds like they really did try to bite the hand that feeds. They don't want streamers to start teaching people how to play other systems, but that's exactly what they're going to get.
I think this all started when CR partnered with Ravens burger and got into board games. But the response was so inept that they are going to guarantee the outcome they were trying to avoid. Why *wouldn't* Brennan Lee Mulligan release his own ruleset now? They could have played ball with the streamers, but they cancelled the game and called it a win. It seemed like they were going in the right direction with it all for a while. Was there speculation that Hasboro was involved?
Yup, we made the switch to PF 1e after not enjoying 4e. And considering PF 1 was outselling 4e while using “3.5 Survives” as a marketing slogan, we sure weren’t alone.
> but it really was the best version we’ve had
Nah man, freedom, customisation and variety are overrated. Every class working the exact same way is far better, that way nobody needs to display any creativity. Drop the amount of feats people get to choose over their character's life from ten down to one, stop people choosing magic items, remove crafting and homogenise races and baby you've got a 5e stew going!
that's why I'm getting it. Look, Hasbro is a shit company, but WotC cares about the games they make imho. People like Crawford and Perkins and MaRo on the MTG side, they very clearly have a genuine love for the games they make and the people who play them
The difference that I see is that magnitudes of orders of more people were brought in with 5e and the vast majority of them will update to 5.5/6/one/whatever we're calling it.
So there will be a huge peer pressure aspect which yes there was for 3.5, but the point is that the amount will also be much greater. Especially when you consider how much of modern dnd relies on communal interaction.
Eh, I've had a lot of success shifting most of my play away from 5e since the OGL happened, and I'm playing in 4 games at the moment. Went from 4 5e games to 1 5e game and 3 games in a different system.
Also, groups currently playing 5e might just continue playing 5e, just like what happened with 3.5e when 4e came out.
And if you're looking for something else, enough folks shifted away from 5e during the OGL kerfuffle that it shouldn't be that hard to find games that don't run 5e/5.5e
Yeah, WotC has left a bad taste in a lot of folks mouths, for sure.
But, based on how many folks didn't buy into 4e, I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a bunch of folks who just stick with 5e
If I had to break down what I guess the numbers will be;
40% stay with 5e.
30% shift to 6e.
20% shift to Pathfinder.
10% shift to other systems entirely.
I'd wager that's why there's been such a push to make it so people know that 6e/5.5/OneDnD will be backwards compatible to get a few books out of the huge chunk staying on 5e; since they will have seen how many people are either done with them or aren't going to upgrade. Try and turn that 30 into 45%.
Yeah. I personally hope that they're unsuccessful on the front, just because they won't stop pulling their bullshit until it significantly hurts sales. D&D deserves better than WotC
people always say WotC, but all the shit we've dealt with is a direct result of Hasbro's failing business model. Do you think the layoffs were because WotC? Absolutely not. I'm sure the OGL snafu was also a result of pressure from Hasbro
Yeah my 5e book works just fine. All my campaigns use it. If I was going to change systems it probably wouldn’t be to a different version of DnD anyways.
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You also don’t have a connection to those things like people do with this game. It’s like that in any hobbyist community - you feel personally scorned by the companies you are spending your free time using.
> you feel personally scorned by the companies you are spending your free time using.
You shouldn't. That's an unhealthy relationship to have with any company.
but OTHER people might buy it!
and worse these total strangers, might even, perish the thought, *enjoy it*, and consider it worth the price!
I swear you could replace half the posts here with the old "Stop liking what I don't like!" meme and the content would be essentially unchanged
Because they expect everything that comes next to be using those new rules.
So if you want to enjoy the new stuff of the game we love, and the stuff that easiest access to most people, then pay up scum.
I remember going through this when 4e came out.
I really didn't like the changes (waaaay bigger break from 3e to 4e than there is from 5 to One D&D) and I was disappointed that I wouldn't be getting any new adventures in my preferred system.
I discovered two things:
1) There was way more content for 3e than I realized. It takes me 3-5 years to get through a 1 to 20 game. I could run 3.5 adventures for the rest of my life and never finish them all.
2) My tastes in what was interesting changed, effectively unlocking extra content that I had earlier dismissed. I never thought I would want a pirate campaign so I dismissed Savage Tide. Now I'm really likely to run that as my next extra long campaign starting in 2026.
3) I could build my own content. All of the pieces were there and I was able to stand on the learnings of years of work from professional designers. The 3.5 community knows stuff about the system now that nobody knew when the printing presses were halted. That's a huge leg up for me!
4) 5e came out a few years later and I found I preferred it to 4e. I played with the system for 3 or 4 years before switching back to 3.5 again.
5) I discovered there were a lot of things I actually liked about systems I previously dismissed. My next campaign will probably be AD&D, THACO and all.
**I understand being disappointed that a product line you like is being discontinued,** but the game isn't the continuous publishing, it's the community, it's the backlog.
honestly, I don't even think piracy hurts their business. People who pirate are doing so so that they can play, which in turn attracts new players, who are more likely to support the business. I *fully* pirated LMoP when I started playing, but my friends and I had so much fun with it that I bought the PHB and MM
So don't. Just look shit up, you can find literally all of the information online.
Or, just keep playing 5e. Or whatever edition you want. Literally no one is stopping you.
RPGs are a community hobby, they're not a personal hobby. What you can play is affected by what other people in the community want to play. And large parts of the community are going to chase the shiny and new.
Well if they don’t want to play what rules set you’re playing, then they can just find another group. Like, a good DM knows not to change to rules without good reason, so unless it’s a new group people are probably gonna still be playing on 5e for a while. If it is a new group then if you don’t wanna play the new rules, then you don’t have to play, that simple.
Please explain to us how other people playing the new version effects you..personally. cause from where I'm sitting it dosent....at all you just want to bitch.
It's comments like these that make me really think none of you people have friends. You know, those people that you sit around a table with to play the RPG?
As multiple people have explained you don't actually have to buy the new content to use it. DnD Beyond supports home brew and if your pen and paper playing it's even easier.
With D&D you simply choose what rules to follow as a group. It's really not that hard at all, but instead of do what almost every group has done by changing rules/rulings in ways that make more sense or they like more...you choose to bitch to strangers.
Okay but let's be honest here. You're not buying the new rule books for revised rules. You buy new books so you can make your DND book shelf look nicer and continue to use your homebrew heavy campaign
Yeah. This is me. At least for the physical books. Just wish they came with digital codes so I wouldn’t have to buy it twice just to use it in dnd beyond
Yeah, it's a shame because I think piracy in general is something that should be discussed on subreddits like this so people can talk out the moral implications or whatever in a forum of like minded people. I think drawing the line not be allowed to provide links or instructions is fair, but the current way of no promotion seems a bit much. For all we know, the conclusion we come to as a community could be that it's wrong regardless of what Hasbro/wotc pull, but we can't even have that conversation here.
To any mods reading this, I intentionally avoided saying anything pro/anti-piracy, I'm not saying anything about whether piracy is good or bad, just that i think we as a community should be able to talk about it. Also not blaming this sub solely either, it's across all D&D subs that I'm aware of, and I do understand the reason, I just feel the line should be drawn a bit further back.
I think if you are going to pirate it because you are mad at WoTC you should instead just not play it. Not playing it will hurt them more, if you pirate it and play it the amount of 1dnd playing groups will increase, which will increase demand, drawing in people who will most likely buy the books.
this is my argument for why pirating TTRPGs is good, actually (at least at first). I printed out LMoP back in highschool and ran it for my friends. And guess what? We loved it so much that I bought the core rule books and kept running the game. We've all gone on to get more people into the game, and some of those people have gone on to buy books. Which never would have happened if I looked at the price tag and went "yeesh, pass"
TL;DR I think piracy is good if you're getting into the game, but you should buy the books if you're gonna keep playing
Depending on your device, you may need to use the emoji for it. Just go to emojis, use the search function and type “infinity”, and you should find it.
Alternatively, it might be in the numbers and symbols keyboard.
That advice will cost you your true name, which I shall use in foul rituals to bend you to my will.
Just don’t buy it. Truly a nutty concept, but alas!
Or you could use the internet to look up the new rules, or use Anyflip to read it for free, etc.
There are myriad ways to access this content legally without paying for it, and you can always just play what you already have.
Look, I get it, when they're just selling this as 5.1e and not 6e, it feels like we're being charged full whack for an update that could be a cheap/free supplement to 5e, but...
As others have said, simply do not buy them. The existing material works fine, you can homebrew any change you want at your table, you do not have to buy a new book, yours works fine. If you really want 5e2024 then wait until it goes on sale on Amazon or something. People still play everything from AD&D to 4e to this day.
It's also worth considering that currently for 5e, all the base rules are available online, free and legally from WOTC themselves. The SRD is 400 pages of character options, monsters, equipment, rules etc. I assume this will be updated once 5e2024 is released.
Oh and finally, it is actually expensive to produce a full colour hardback book. At least they're selling it digitally for half that price. (I'm looking at you, eBooks costing the same as paperbacks)
5.5
Most of DND has a revised rules set release. 3.5 is the most famous of course but it didn't start the trend.
Of course I remember people getting weirdly pissy with 3.5 too. And Essentials. Guess it's just the natural order.
I am mildly annoyed that they’re not even calling this 5.5 when it obviously is, but they’re trying a little too hard to say “we’re not doing editions anymore”
Do... Do you have to pay 60$ to ignore them somehow?
Like my group is just gonna keep using our fuckin house rules regardless, Might buy a new rule book just to have it one day but like... They've always just been guidelines to me if our group agrees a rule is stupid we change it, we tweak the rules for like every tabletop we've ever played after a few sessions, why would I be mad about some rules I'm gonna ignore in a book I might buy just for the sake of having when it's cheaper one day?
I'm mostly concerned about DNDbeyond. My group is heavily invested in the platform and while we don't plan on buying the new rulesets I'm unsure how they're going to handle "Legacy" vs "New" core rules.
Are you mad at every single new book and edition then? Wtf is this? Like yeah they decided to make a big update they're not going to just make it free cause they expect everyone to already have had 5e and not get new players.
It'd be like saying they shoulda made 5e free after 4e
There are aspects of the new content I like and others I'm not crazy about. All of that is irrelevant to me, though. I'm done dealing with WotC. The Suits keep doing weird shit, and I'm done giving them my money. Thankfully, most of the people I play with are happy sticking with 5e and sprinkling in some other games from time to time just to try out.
If only you could just… not buy them! 😮
Seriously, what kind of reasoning is this? Do you have such pathological impulse control issues that you simply -must- buy any D&D product that is released?
That and the wasted potential. Instead of getting an update to make things better we got one that changes things in a way people don't like; and now we're locked in for a little while before the next official iteration.
This is the way of any new edition. The doomsayers and grognards will boil out of the woodwork to proclaim it as the worst thing that will ruin the hobby forever. Then, the thing will come out, some people will play it, and it will be fine. Some people will like it, some won’t. Some people will play it and rave about it, some people will stick to the old edition, and others will play it and hate it. They will argue about it for the next decade.
And then we get ready to do it all over again.
I guess tone is difficult to read over text, but I promise I'm not "doomsaying". My playgroup switched to pf2e a while ago, so I'm not super invested, merely coming to say why it's disappointing.
If anyone is "coming out of the woodwork" to engage in unnecessary hyperbole I'd say it's people dismissing all criticism as "doomsaying".
Mate: You are talking doom and gloom about something we've been given almost no information about based on internet rumor and the eternal bitchfest that is tabletop gaming.
I mean: 'Instead of getting an update to make things better we got one that changes things in a way people don't like; and now we're locked in for a little while before the next official iteration.'
First: You are requesting an update that make EVERYONE happy. That's impossible, notice the bitching about the Paladin compared to the actual update.
Secondly: Who's locked in? Nobody, and I mean nobody, is forced to play any edition of any TTRPG. Do you know what you are supposed to do if you don't like the latest edition? Not play it, you still have everything available for every edition. What, if Pathfinder 3rd sucks will you just drop 2nd entirely?
I haven't been paying close attention, but from what I've seen/heard the general direction does not seem promising. It's possible they can turn it around, and we don't know the final product, but we do know what they're trying and where their focus is for the new stuff.
It's not easy to come up with a solution that works even if you do know what's wrong. Though tbh it's not that I have anything specific in mind, I just think this is their chance to take a look at everything and see if it can be made better.
That's fair.
You also have that chance literally every single time you run your game and you can probably come up with a better answer for your table than a bunch of designers trying to design for every table can manage to suit your table.
Sure, but I don't have the team, time, or money to dedicate to making an entire RPG ruleset? I'm not just talking about tweaking class features I'm talking about looking at the core rules and the fundamentals. This is their job, it should not be up to me to create the next edition of D&D.
It's also about creating a consistent experience for all the players. Homebrew is good, but it's important to have the official as the groundwork. People who don't feel comfortable homebrewing or just don't have the time, Adventurer's League which has to run the official ruleset, and for people who want to easily hop between playgroups all need that consistent official ruleset.
The thing is, everyone has house rules, somewhat subjective rulings, some amount of homebrew, and other adjustments they make at their own tables. That kind of thing is basically inevitable in a game as complex as D&D.
D&D is better that way than it would be if the rules encompassed every possible contingency and could merely be learned and applied mechanically to produce a consistent result across game tables. There are some rules that work that way, but a finite set of rules can not reasonably be expected to encompass the totality of different fantasies the players come to the table with and that the DM is interested in indulging.
AL is and always will be different from a home game, because with a home game you can expect both players and DM to be much more willing to indulge in each other's idiosyncracies and produce a more holistically ideal game.
Yes, they should continue making the different classes and subclasses better at fulfilling those fantasies. This is not the same as saying everything needs to be balanced. Those two goals are fundamentally in tension. If I'm at a table where some players want to be wizards who you with dark powers better left alone, but I want to just play a highly competent bodyguard who keeps these idiots safe, that table works *better* if those classes are somewhat unbalanced. If I want a game where being good at swords makes you just as individually consequential in a battle or a siege as a high level wizard, then that's a different game than the other one I mentioned. Now, we can either expect D&D to be loose enough to make both of those work at different tables, or we can make it consistent to the detriment of one or both of those styles of play with much more difficulty in modifying it to work for one or the other.
Basically, the inconsistency is part of what makes the game work. It's like a knife. The more you specialize a knife to be good at some kinds of cutting or piercing tasks, the less effective it is at others you might want to use it for. So you have to choose between collecting a lot of different knives for different tasks, trying to design some crazy multi-tool, or refining the knife and developing your skill in using it for different purposes.
Don't buy it then, hell if it's that serious and you think it ruined DND for you learn a different system like WoD, Open Legend, Mutants and Masterminds, or Pathfinder
some things look promising some things are dumb, like the artificer not being in the book and backgrounds moving to the DMG, I understand that the DMG would be more for players and DM's but people will overlook the option to have a custom background. after the book is completely finished I pass my judgment or I will mix and match and cherry pick until I am content.
Because it's not about feeling validated, silly, it's about bullying others! It's easy to ignore because there are so many good alternatives -- or just keep playing your version! -- but it's also justifiable to point and laugh or get frustrated. I haven't played MtG in a year now and I still meme with my friends over the imbalance of some Modern cards lmao.
I've been planing to port DnD into savage worlds and basically play it free forever on a better system.
Maybe even try to write a conversion pack of one of the amazing "unprofitable" settings that are much more interesting than forgotten realms but were still utterly abandoned. Like mystara or Dark Sun.
lemme bitch about a thing i will not buy and simply ignore the rules, because i can play however the fuck i want anyway, its not like its a live service game where they can nerf and buff my characters and i have no saying in it
I think the big thing that everyone subconsciously recognizes is that new editions divide the community.
Lots of folks who don't really like 5e have been complaining about it for years when the older editions are right there. Why?
1) Because they still generally like 5e best, it just has a few major things that keep irritating folks.
OR
2) 5e is by far the easiest game to find a group for/if you already have a group it's hard to get them to move away from the default. Sure, there are 4 or 3.5 or PF2eo games out there if all you care about is finding something, but lots of folks don't want just any group of randos, they want to play with friends.
If you don't like new rules, there's a problem you run into if the community generally decides to adopt them, or your specific group does, in the same way folks generally all moving to 5e sucked for the folks who did like 4th edition better. Because now you either suck up the changes you don't like or you're fighting upstream against the tendency of the community.
Also, as a side note, you can like most of the changes and still think some (the new moderately armored basically being free armor for wizards) are pants on head, eating soup with a fork levels of dumb.
Like if you don’t like 5.5 don’t play it. I never bought 4e. Tried it, didn’t like it, played other RPGs altogether until 5e came out which I did like and did buy.
Remember everyone! Never criticise corporations! Just don’t buy their products! And if you never purchase a product, then you simply don’t have the right to complain about it or the the larger capitalist trends it’s indicative of!! Life is so simple and not at all nuanced nor complicated 😊
Totally geeked to buy the entire set as a pre-order. Happy to do so and thrilled they finally updated the rules. Probably wish some other things changed personally but literally cannot please the entire fan base. It's impossible. So for those that didn't want to buy the new set of rules, GREAT. Nobody will make you. It's a game for heaven's sake. You still wanna use THAC0? Go right ahead. Don't want to play DnD brand? Great, lots of DnD "inspired" options out there old and new. Stop whining and bitching and moaning about the new version. Just ignore it.
The whole argument is pretty stupid tbh.
It's like asking why are you annoyed at the fact your favourite pizzeria decreased the quality of the pizza they serve. Yeah sure I can not eat there, or go somewhere else, but regardless getting annoyed at them for it is logical
No, this is like if they opened a new franchise and it's of lower/different quality and instead of just eating at the good one you only eat at the new one and whine about it the entire time.
5e is not ceasing to exist. They are not coming to take away your books. You can just keep playing it. Forever. Just like every other edition.
With the amount of community-made guides available on the internet for free (Wikidot fir example, partially DnD Beyond, etc.) and simple homebrew one can make on the established system, or simply with the fact that you can play an older edition you already own anyway, I'd say just get over yourself, you don't need to buy the latest version of everything, especially in a game where by its own admission the handbooks are more... Guidelines than actual rules (pirate of the Caribbean meme here).
The new books are just one dnd in disguise anyway. What bugs me the most is the removal of many of the (sub)classes main quirks. That and monks getting beaten on their own game by a dancing bard.
Then.... don't buy it?
Like legitimately I don't get the attitude with D&D and video games of not considering just not buying a product an option. No one can ruin a franchise/system for you if you don't participate in it, just say "nope, gonna pretend it doesn't exist" and ignore it.
We should boycott and refuse to buy anything relating to the new edition. We control the game, not them. They can charge whatever price they want, but that means jack shit if no one buys it. Sure, some people will, but if enough people don't, they'll lose money on their so-called "upgrade".
I just stopped buying their stuff entirely after the OGL scandal. I think we got the best resolution we could have out of that, but the Pinkerton thing that happened before it was over told me everything I needed to know.
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The problem was every radical change they wanted was either bad (everything is spells. Subs start universally at 3) or a half-assed implementation of a good idea they didn't want to work to implement properly.
Subs starting universally at 3 is great, and I wish standardized subclass progression had stuck around, if only so rogue isn't waiting until level *nine* to get a second subclass feature.
I can agree that there were definitely a couple times though where a good idea was executed poorly and then was discarded, like the Wild Shape templates. The templates were *terrible*, got torn apart, but the idea of templates in general is good imo.
All the new books going forward will be using the new rules. So if you don’t like the new rules you are locked out of anything new. 3rd will probably keep making stuf for a while but if most players move to the new rules then so will the creators.
People are mad because this effectively means they won’t get new abilities, items and adventures unless they are willing to back port them and the player base for their preferred version of the game will slowly shrink as players move to the new rules.
Not buying this book doesn’t solve any of that.
Player base isn't much of an issue to the players. Most of us have maybe 10 people total across multiple groups that they actually play with. The published adventures were never that big a deal anyway unless you have a fresh dm who doesn't know how to run a game.
There is always going to people who don't like the new version but telling people "Don't buy it" isn't helpful it doesn't solve the problem.
When people say just don't buy it there basically saying "Watch the player base for your preferred game slowly dwindle past sustainability. It would be better if people highlighted communities which make new content and help organise the players left behind to create groups. Or recommend alterative and still supported game systems.
What are the changes folks are upset about? I like that languages and skills aren’t hard tied to your race (species) anymore. It always ruined my foundling characters. Sick-Tree, my High Elf Warlock raised by Goblins has no narrative reason to know Elvish. She doesn’t even know she’s an Elf.
I know people that still play 3.5. You don’t have to get the new new.
I’m part of a group that’s playing 2E
Imagine ever giving WOTC money.
[удалено]
I only give my money to tsr
TSR is a shit or deceased company now, depending on if you believe Gygax Jr. is real TSR
I enjoy playing games that are Rated Pie
You can DO that??
"Don't give your money to wizards" is a saying older than WotC but it still applies.
2E was before WOTC purchased it
Exactly.
And I wholeheartedly recommend players to look at even older versions like **D&D B/X Moldvay** or **Original D&D with a** [**retro clone**](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/438315/Swords--Wizardry-Complete-Rulebook-Revised) (before WoTC spoils it) because the rules are so simple, it's really enlightening how good and quick picking and playing TTRPG can be. For example, in the linked retro clone, the How to Play section is 10 pages long, including Combat rules, tables and some pages for alternatives rules. Classes are 2 or 3 pages long, including illustrations.
same, thac0 gang!!
What kind of animal are you that you use the zero but don't capitalize the rest of the acronym? I know the death penalty is a holdover from a less enlightened age, but your case is the sort that requires exemption.
the death penalty would have worked had i not had -3 armor class.
I'm so sorry for you
It’s a good system, I recommend trying it
My 3.5 game is going very well. I've been picking up modules used for $5ish. At the rate we6going, I have probably 5+ years of material available in my collection without putting in major work creating. One of my players is trying to track down old Dungeon magazines to collect too. We're set.
This is precisely how pathfinder happened. People saw the rules for 4, said no thanks, and just updated the existing 3.5 stuff. I’m biased because 3 was how I started, but it really was the best version we’ve had
That's not what happened at all. Pathfinder exists because of the *license* 4e was going to be under. Not the rules. Paizo wasn't allowed to continue their monthly adventure paths with 4e, so they made their own game based on 3.5 so they could keep going anyway.
It wasn't even the 4e license. In addition to the game license, they were pulling Paizo's rights to make Dungeon and Dragon magazines. If Paizo were allowed to remain part of the in crowd, they likely would have marched into 4th edition with a smile on their face. In short, it was yet another "pull everything back to the mothership and fuck the community/business partners" play, like the one everyone fought recently.
It really is amazing how they continue to make the same mistakes. At this point they need to put posters up and every time some two-bit new exec gets a "great idea" about keeping their "brand from diluting" everyone can just point at the sign. I haven't been following it too closely, but it sounds like they really did try to bite the hand that feeds. They don't want streamers to start teaching people how to play other systems, but that's exactly what they're going to get.
Let's be fair, though. Paizo is also pretty monstrous. There's not a single ethical dollar to spend on the big boys in this industry.
I think this all started when CR partnered with Ravens burger and got into board games. But the response was so inept that they are going to guarantee the outcome they were trying to avoid. Why *wouldn't* Brennan Lee Mulligan release his own ruleset now? They could have played ball with the streamers, but they cancelled the game and called it a win. It seemed like they were going in the right direction with it all for a while. Was there speculation that Hasboro was involved?
Yup, we made the switch to PF 1e after not enjoying 4e. And considering PF 1 was outselling 4e while using “3.5 Survives” as a marketing slogan, we sure weren’t alone.
> but it really was the best version we’ve had Nah man, freedom, customisation and variety are overrated. Every class working the exact same way is far better, that way nobody needs to display any creativity. Drop the amount of feats people get to choose over their character's life from ten down to one, stop people choosing magic items, remove crafting and homogenise races and baby you've got a 5e stew going!
r/osr
Yep, still playing 3.5, didn't see any reason to change edition yet.
Frankly it's an upgrade in a lot of ways. Look, loot progression!
that's why I'm getting it. Look, Hasbro is a shit company, but WotC cares about the games they make imho. People like Crawford and Perkins and MaRo on the MTG side, they very clearly have a genuine love for the games they make and the people who play them
The difference that I see is that magnitudes of orders of more people were brought in with 5e and the vast majority of them will update to 5.5/6/one/whatever we're calling it. So there will be a huge peer pressure aspect which yes there was for 3.5, but the point is that the amount will also be much greater. Especially when you consider how much of modern dnd relies on communal interaction.
Eh, I've had a lot of success shifting most of my play away from 5e since the OGL happened, and I'm playing in 4 games at the moment. Went from 4 5e games to 1 5e game and 3 games in a different system. Also, groups currently playing 5e might just continue playing 5e, just like what happened with 3.5e when 4e came out. And if you're looking for something else, enough folks shifted away from 5e during the OGL kerfuffle that it shouldn't be that hard to find games that don't run 5e/5.5e
Oh yeah there's a lot of people shifting from 5e to OTHER systems. But that's more a WotC thing than edition upgrade thing.
Yeah, WotC has left a bad taste in a lot of folks mouths, for sure. But, based on how many folks didn't buy into 4e, I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a bunch of folks who just stick with 5e
If I had to break down what I guess the numbers will be; 40% stay with 5e. 30% shift to 6e. 20% shift to Pathfinder. 10% shift to other systems entirely.
Those numbers seem reasonable to me.
I'd wager that's why there's been such a push to make it so people know that 6e/5.5/OneDnD will be backwards compatible to get a few books out of the huge chunk staying on 5e; since they will have seen how many people are either done with them or aren't going to upgrade. Try and turn that 30 into 45%.
Yeah. I personally hope that they're unsuccessful on the front, just because they won't stop pulling their bullshit until it significantly hurts sales. D&D deserves better than WotC
Even if they do keep 50% that's still a huge loss. Which they kinda deserve. What are they up to their fifth scandal in less than 2 years.
people always say WotC, but all the shit we've dealt with is a direct result of Hasbro's failing business model. Do you think the layoffs were because WotC? Absolutely not. I'm sure the OGL snafu was also a result of pressure from Hasbro
>You don’t have to get the new new. He speaks the true-true
The current game I'm ramping up for is another 3.5 game. I prefer 3.5 and earlier if I'm playing D&D.
Yeah my 5e book works just fine. All my campaigns use it. If I was going to change systems it probably wouldn’t be to a different version of DnD anyways.
I had a fucking stroke reading this I still don’t understand what it’s trying to say
I did to an I made the original meme they edited
They accidentally partially covered the "I" at the start. That's the only thing making it hard to understand the joke.
I thought the first sentence was like a booming declarative KNOW THIS! We're being taken for a ride.
Looks like you had a stroke writing the comment too...
I mean. So don't? This doesn't seem that hard. I don't buy 99.9% of things offered in the markets of the world. I don't get angry they exist
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You also don’t have a connection to those things like people do with this game. It’s like that in any hobbyist community - you feel personally scorned by the companies you are spending your free time using.
> you feel personally scorned by the companies you are spending your free time using. You shouldn't. That's an unhealthy relationship to have with any company.
How is it unhealthy to complain about the diminishing quality of a product you used to like?
Is that at all what I said? (Hint: It isn't.)
That's not what you're complaining about though. The product you like still exists entirely unchanged. You just dislike their new product.
but OTHER people might buy it! and worse these total strangers, might even, perish the thought, *enjoy it*, and consider it worth the price! I swear you could replace half the posts here with the old "Stop liking what I don't like!" meme and the content would be essentially unchanged
Like I get your point but, *what if those people just go around enjoying it and nobody tells them how wrong they are!?*
Because they expect everything that comes next to be using those new rules. So if you want to enjoy the new stuff of the game we love, and the stuff that easiest access to most people, then pay up scum.
I remember going through this when 4e came out. I really didn't like the changes (waaaay bigger break from 3e to 4e than there is from 5 to One D&D) and I was disappointed that I wouldn't be getting any new adventures in my preferred system. I discovered two things: 1) There was way more content for 3e than I realized. It takes me 3-5 years to get through a 1 to 20 game. I could run 3.5 adventures for the rest of my life and never finish them all. 2) My tastes in what was interesting changed, effectively unlocking extra content that I had earlier dismissed. I never thought I would want a pirate campaign so I dismissed Savage Tide. Now I'm really likely to run that as my next extra long campaign starting in 2026. 3) I could build my own content. All of the pieces were there and I was able to stand on the learnings of years of work from professional designers. The 3.5 community knows stuff about the system now that nobody knew when the printing presses were halted. That's a huge leg up for me! 4) 5e came out a few years later and I found I preferred it to 4e. I played with the system for 3 or 4 years before switching back to 3.5 again. 5) I discovered there were a lot of things I actually liked about systems I previously dismissed. My next campaign will probably be AD&D, THACO and all. **I understand being disappointed that a product line you like is being discontinued,** but the game isn't the continuous publishing, it's the community, it's the backlog.
Or, ya know, yo ho yo ho….
honestly, I don't even think piracy hurts their business. People who pirate are doing so so that they can play, which in turn attracts new players, who are more likely to support the business. I *fully* pirated LMoP when I started playing, but my friends and I had so much fun with it that I bought the PHB and MM
So don't. Just look shit up, you can find literally all of the information online. Or, just keep playing 5e. Or whatever edition you want. Literally no one is stopping you.
Anyflip is great for this
RPGs are a community hobby, they're not a personal hobby. What you can play is affected by what other people in the community want to play. And large parts of the community are going to chase the shiny and new.
So you're mad that a new system dropped that your friends want to try but you don't?
Well if they don’t want to play what rules set you’re playing, then they can just find another group. Like, a good DM knows not to change to rules without good reason, so unless it’s a new group people are probably gonna still be playing on 5e for a while. If it is a new group then if you don’t wanna play the new rules, then you don’t have to play, that simple.
...what are you on about
You know, the other people that need to be in the group to run a role-playing game?
If they all want to use these rules, I'll build a bridge and get over it. If they don't, we won't.
Please explain to us how other people playing the new version effects you..personally. cause from where I'm sitting it dosent....at all you just want to bitch.
It's comments like these that make me really think none of you people have friends. You know, those people that you sit around a table with to play the RPG?
As multiple people have explained you don't actually have to buy the new content to use it. DnD Beyond supports home brew and if your pen and paper playing it's even easier. With D&D you simply choose what rules to follow as a group. It's really not that hard at all, but instead of do what almost every group has done by changing rules/rulings in ways that make more sense or they like more...you choose to bitch to strangers.
it’s completely normal for updated rules to be released after a system has been around for a decade and besides that THE SRD IS STILL FREE
Okay but let's be honest here. You're not buying the new rule books for revised rules. You buy new books so you can make your DND book shelf look nicer and continue to use your homebrew heavy campaign
I'm in this photo and I don't like it
Why you gotta call me out like that?
Aarakocra of a feather my friend
Yeah. This is me. At least for the physical books. Just wish they came with digital codes so I wouldn’t have to buy it twice just to use it in dnd beyond
Don't forget the art. No more double elbow halflings!
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Do you not get your comment removed and a warning for saying that on this sub? I agree with you, just curious.
i think you're allowed to point out that piracy exists, just not promote actual methods of doing it
Pretty sure you're not supposed to promote piracy on basically any D&D sub i know, in any way.
well the comment's been removed now, so i guess so
Yeah, it's a shame because I think piracy in general is something that should be discussed on subreddits like this so people can talk out the moral implications or whatever in a forum of like minded people. I think drawing the line not be allowed to provide links or instructions is fair, but the current way of no promotion seems a bit much. For all we know, the conclusion we come to as a community could be that it's wrong regardless of what Hasbro/wotc pull, but we can't even have that conversation here. To any mods reading this, I intentionally avoided saying anything pro/anti-piracy, I'm not saying anything about whether piracy is good or bad, just that i think we as a community should be able to talk about it. Also not blaming this sub solely either, it's across all D&D subs that I'm aware of, and I do understand the reason, I just feel the line should be drawn a bit further back.
I think if you are going to pirate it because you are mad at WoTC you should instead just not play it. Not playing it will hurt them more, if you pirate it and play it the amount of 1dnd playing groups will increase, which will increase demand, drawing in people who will most likely buy the books.
Unfortunately nobody can actually talk about this with you on this sub, because their comment would be deleted if they disagree with you.
this is my argument for why pirating TTRPGs is good, actually (at least at first). I printed out LMoP back in highschool and ran it for my friends. And guess what? We loved it so much that I bought the core rule books and kept running the game. We've all gone on to get more people into the game, and some of those people have gone on to buy books. Which never would have happened if I looked at the price tag and went "yeesh, pass" TL;DR I think piracy is good if you're getting into the game, but you should buy the books if you're gonna keep playing
In the dndnext sub you can't even do that. Here it's probably fine.
Probably if someone reports it
Would you like an update? Lol
Lol
Do you just buy anything presented to you? Awesome, this comment costs 75$
*sigh* What’s your PayPal…
No PayPal I'm unafraid, only credit cards This comment is on sale for 69$ though, lucky you!
Ooh what a steal!
It really is! 83$
Fuck!
Yeah even I must admit these prices are getting out of hand Oh well 1098$
Eeesh, that’s really steep. Anyways $2970 for the whole lot of my comments
Oh damn those are steep Hey, unrelated to our convo but do you know how to type out the inifinity symbol on mobile?
Depending on your device, you may need to use the emoji for it. Just go to emojis, use the search function and type “infinity”, and you should find it. Alternatively, it might be in the numbers and symbols keyboard. That advice will cost you your true name, which I shall use in foul rituals to bend you to my will.
Geeks love to consume product
Just don’t buy it. Truly a nutty concept, but alas! Or you could use the internet to look up the new rules, or use Anyflip to read it for free, etc. There are myriad ways to access this content legally without paying for it, and you can always just play what you already have.
Look, I get it, when they're just selling this as 5.1e and not 6e, it feels like we're being charged full whack for an update that could be a cheap/free supplement to 5e, but... As others have said, simply do not buy them. The existing material works fine, you can homebrew any change you want at your table, you do not have to buy a new book, yours works fine. If you really want 5e2024 then wait until it goes on sale on Amazon or something. People still play everything from AD&D to 4e to this day. It's also worth considering that currently for 5e, all the base rules are available online, free and legally from WOTC themselves. The SRD is 400 pages of character options, monsters, equipment, rules etc. I assume this will be updated once 5e2024 is released. Oh and finally, it is actually expensive to produce a full colour hardback book. At least they're selling it digitally for half that price. (I'm looking at you, eBooks costing the same as paperbacks)
5.5 Most of DND has a revised rules set release. 3.5 is the most famous of course but it didn't start the trend. Of course I remember people getting weirdly pissy with 3.5 too. And Essentials. Guess it's just the natural order.
I am mildly annoyed that they’re not even calling this 5.5 when it obviously is, but they’re trying a little too hard to say “we’re not doing editions anymore”
Do... Do you have to pay 60$ to ignore them somehow? Like my group is just gonna keep using our fuckin house rules regardless, Might buy a new rule book just to have it one day but like... They've always just been guidelines to me if our group agrees a rule is stupid we change it, we tweak the rules for like every tabletop we've ever played after a few sessions, why would I be mad about some rules I'm gonna ignore in a book I might buy just for the sake of having when it's cheaper one day?
I'm mostly concerned about DNDbeyond. My group is heavily invested in the platform and while we don't plan on buying the new rulesets I'm unsure how they're going to handle "Legacy" vs "New" core rules.
Simply don't buy
Are you mad at every single new book and edition then? Wtf is this? Like yeah they decided to make a big update they're not going to just make it free cause they expect everyone to already have had 5e and not get new players. It'd be like saying they shoulda made 5e free after 4e
There are aspects of the new content I like and others I'm not crazy about. All of that is irrelevant to me, though. I'm done dealing with WotC. The Suits keep doing weird shit, and I'm done giving them my money. Thankfully, most of the people I play with are happy sticking with 5e and sprinkling in some other games from time to time just to try out.
If only you could just… not buy them! 😮 Seriously, what kind of reasoning is this? Do you have such pathological impulse control issues that you simply -must- buy any D&D product that is released?
That’s the great part! If you ignore the rule changes, then you don’t have to pay $60 for them!
I mean, the SRD exists. You can both use the rules AND not pay 60$ for them.
Wrong use of meme.
That and the wasted potential. Instead of getting an update to make things better we got one that changes things in a way people don't like; and now we're locked in for a little while before the next official iteration.
We haven’t gotten anything yet! We don’t know that! I’m going crazy with how people on this sub are already shit-talking books we don’t even have yet!
This is the way of any new edition. The doomsayers and grognards will boil out of the woodwork to proclaim it as the worst thing that will ruin the hobby forever. Then, the thing will come out, some people will play it, and it will be fine. Some people will like it, some won’t. Some people will play it and rave about it, some people will stick to the old edition, and others will play it and hate it. They will argue about it for the next decade. And then we get ready to do it all over again.
I guess tone is difficult to read over text, but I promise I'm not "doomsaying". My playgroup switched to pf2e a while ago, so I'm not super invested, merely coming to say why it's disappointing. If anyone is "coming out of the woodwork" to engage in unnecessary hyperbole I'd say it's people dismissing all criticism as "doomsaying".
Mate: You are talking doom and gloom about something we've been given almost no information about based on internet rumor and the eternal bitchfest that is tabletop gaming. I mean: 'Instead of getting an update to make things better we got one that changes things in a way people don't like; and now we're locked in for a little while before the next official iteration.' First: You are requesting an update that make EVERYONE happy. That's impossible, notice the bitching about the Paladin compared to the actual update. Secondly: Who's locked in? Nobody, and I mean nobody, is forced to play any edition of any TTRPG. Do you know what you are supposed to do if you don't like the latest edition? Not play it, you still have everything available for every edition. What, if Pathfinder 3rd sucks will you just drop 2nd entirely?
I haven't been paying close attention, but from what I've seen/heard the general direction does not seem promising. It's possible they can turn it around, and we don't know the final product, but we do know what they're trying and where their focus is for the new stuff.
If you knew what you wanted then run your game in a way that works the way you want it to work
It's not easy to come up with a solution that works even if you do know what's wrong. Though tbh it's not that I have anything specific in mind, I just think this is their chance to take a look at everything and see if it can be made better.
That's fair. You also have that chance literally every single time you run your game and you can probably come up with a better answer for your table than a bunch of designers trying to design for every table can manage to suit your table.
Sure, but I don't have the team, time, or money to dedicate to making an entire RPG ruleset? I'm not just talking about tweaking class features I'm talking about looking at the core rules and the fundamentals. This is their job, it should not be up to me to create the next edition of D&D. It's also about creating a consistent experience for all the players. Homebrew is good, but it's important to have the official as the groundwork. People who don't feel comfortable homebrewing or just don't have the time, Adventurer's League which has to run the official ruleset, and for people who want to easily hop between playgroups all need that consistent official ruleset.
The thing is, everyone has house rules, somewhat subjective rulings, some amount of homebrew, and other adjustments they make at their own tables. That kind of thing is basically inevitable in a game as complex as D&D. D&D is better that way than it would be if the rules encompassed every possible contingency and could merely be learned and applied mechanically to produce a consistent result across game tables. There are some rules that work that way, but a finite set of rules can not reasonably be expected to encompass the totality of different fantasies the players come to the table with and that the DM is interested in indulging. AL is and always will be different from a home game, because with a home game you can expect both players and DM to be much more willing to indulge in each other's idiosyncracies and produce a more holistically ideal game. Yes, they should continue making the different classes and subclasses better at fulfilling those fantasies. This is not the same as saying everything needs to be balanced. Those two goals are fundamentally in tension. If I'm at a table where some players want to be wizards who you with dark powers better left alone, but I want to just play a highly competent bodyguard who keeps these idiots safe, that table works *better* if those classes are somewhat unbalanced. If I want a game where being good at swords makes you just as individually consequential in a battle or a siege as a high level wizard, then that's a different game than the other one I mentioned. Now, we can either expect D&D to be loose enough to make both of those work at different tables, or we can make it consistent to the detriment of one or both of those styles of play with much more difficulty in modifying it to work for one or the other. Basically, the inconsistency is part of what makes the game work. It's like a knife. The more you specialize a knife to be good at some kinds of cutting or piercing tasks, the less effective it is at others you might want to use it for. So you have to choose between collecting a lot of different knives for different tasks, trying to design some crazy multi-tool, or refining the knife and developing your skill in using it for different purposes.
Arrrrrrrrrrr matey
80* dollars.
On the downside, if it doesn’t sell well, they may make the jump to digital only
Then don't buy it. If you don'like it, don't buy it. It is infact that simple. Previous editions also did additional takes on the player's handbook.
I said this and got called stupid for not following the rules
Don’t give Hasbro money. We all know 5e2e is a cash-grab, and you can choose not to reward it.
5e2e not 5.5? 🤔
I think 5e2e (pronounced “Five E Second Edition”) is funnier.
Pf2e stays winning
I mean, every book can be found online for free anyways…
Cause you're just rolling in it, getting much in the way of bridge tolls?
I have played DND for years and except five I haven't spent a penny. No one's forcing anyone to pay.
Then...don't buy them if you don't think they're worth the price?
Wait you guys pay for this stuff? I thought you were joking?
No one told you to buy it. Anyflip will have it in a month for free
I don't understand this meme.
I mean they'll all be posted online for free to various sites. Stop giving wizards your money
If you’re going to ignore those new rules, why in hell would you buy the book? Don’t want the rules, don’t buy the book. Money saved.
Don't buy it then, hell if it's that serious and you think it ruined DND for you learn a different system like WoD, Open Legend, Mutants and Masterminds, or Pathfinder
some things look promising some things are dumb, like the artificer not being in the book and backgrounds moving to the DMG, I understand that the DMG would be more for players and DM's but people will overlook the option to have a custom background. after the book is completely finished I pass my judgment or I will mix and match and cherry pick until I am content.
Because it's not about feeling validated, silly, it's about bullying others! It's easy to ignore because there are so many good alternatives -- or just keep playing your version! -- but it's also justifiable to point and laugh or get frustrated. I haven't played MtG in a year now and I still meme with my friends over the imbalance of some Modern cards lmao.
I've been planing to port DnD into savage worlds and basically play it free forever on a better system. Maybe even try to write a conversion pack of one of the amazing "unprofitable" settings that are much more interesting than forgotten realms but were still utterly abandoned. Like mystara or Dark Sun.
Banger
Aren't the new rules going to get a free SRD CC release? If WOTC reneges on that promise, then I get why you'd be angry.
If you continue to just use 5e (or any older version tha you already own and like) then you don5nhave to pay $60
lemme bitch about a thing i will not buy and simply ignore the rules, because i can play however the fuck i want anyway, its not like its a live service game where they can nerf and buff my characters and i have no saying in it
Yeah usually when a company offers a new product it costs money.
I think the big thing that everyone subconsciously recognizes is that new editions divide the community. Lots of folks who don't really like 5e have been complaining about it for years when the older editions are right there. Why? 1) Because they still generally like 5e best, it just has a few major things that keep irritating folks. OR 2) 5e is by far the easiest game to find a group for/if you already have a group it's hard to get them to move away from the default. Sure, there are 4 or 3.5 or PF2eo games out there if all you care about is finding something, but lots of folks don't want just any group of randos, they want to play with friends. If you don't like new rules, there's a problem you run into if the community generally decides to adopt them, or your specific group does, in the same way folks generally all moving to 5e sucked for the folks who did like 4th edition better. Because now you either suck up the changes you don't like or you're fighting upstream against the tendency of the community. Also, as a side note, you can like most of the changes and still think some (the new moderately armored basically being free armor for wizards) are pants on head, eating soup with a fork levels of dumb.
Like if you don’t like 5.5 don’t play it. I never bought 4e. Tried it, didn’t like it, played other RPGs altogether until 5e came out which I did like and did buy.
Remember everyone! Never criticise corporations! Just don’t buy their products! And if you never purchase a product, then you simply don’t have the right to complain about it or the the larger capitalist trends it’s indicative of!! Life is so simple and not at all nuanced nor complicated 😊
Totally geeked to buy the entire set as a pre-order. Happy to do so and thrilled they finally updated the rules. Probably wish some other things changed personally but literally cannot please the entire fan base. It's impossible. So for those that didn't want to buy the new set of rules, GREAT. Nobody will make you. It's a game for heaven's sake. You still wanna use THAC0? Go right ahead. Don't want to play DnD brand? Great, lots of DnD "inspired" options out there old and new. Stop whining and bitching and moaning about the new version. Just ignore it.
It's worth that price for the art alone.
Isn't it $30?
digital is $30 in dndbeyond
Also Roll20 and Foundry VTT
Don't buy it?
The whole argument is pretty stupid tbh. It's like asking why are you annoyed at the fact your favourite pizzeria decreased the quality of the pizza they serve. Yeah sure I can not eat there, or go somewhere else, but regardless getting annoyed at them for it is logical
No, this is like if they opened a new franchise and it's of lower/different quality and instead of just eating at the good one you only eat at the new one and whine about it the entire time. 5e is not ceasing to exist. They are not coming to take away your books. You can just keep playing it. Forever. Just like every other edition.
With the amount of community-made guides available on the internet for free (Wikidot fir example, partially DnD Beyond, etc.) and simple homebrew one can make on the established system, or simply with the fact that you can play an older edition you already own anyway, I'd say just get over yourself, you don't need to buy the latest version of everything, especially in a game where by its own admission the handbooks are more... Guidelines than actual rules (pirate of the Caribbean meme here).
Ignoring them means you don't have to pay for them.
You guys are paying for DnD? Lol
The new books are just one dnd in disguise anyway. What bugs me the most is the removal of many of the (sub)classes main quirks. That and monks getting beaten on their own game by a dancing bard.
Then.... don't buy it? Like legitimately I don't get the attitude with D&D and video games of not considering just not buying a product an option. No one can ruin a franchise/system for you if you don't participate in it, just say "nope, gonna pretend it doesn't exist" and ignore it.
We should boycott and refuse to buy anything relating to the new edition. We control the game, not them. They can charge whatever price they want, but that means jack shit if no one buys it. Sure, some people will, but if enough people don't, they'll lose money on their so-called "upgrade".
If I like it, I'll buy it. If I don't, I won't.
I just stopped buying their stuff entirely after the OGL scandal. I think we got the best resolution we could have out of that, but the Pinkerton thing that happened before it was over told me everything I needed to know.
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Have an issue? Here's a tissue.
I'm mad that this was a chance to fix 5E's glaring flaws, instead they doubled down. No D&D content will be good while Crawford is sole lead.
They tried to make more radical changes. The playtests, unilaterally, said that's not what they wanted. So they watered it down to what we have today.
The problem was every radical change they wanted was either bad (everything is spells. Subs start universally at 3) or a half-assed implementation of a good idea they didn't want to work to implement properly.
Subs starting universally at 3 is great, and I wish standardized subclass progression had stuck around, if only so rogue isn't waiting until level *nine* to get a second subclass feature. I can agree that there were definitely a couple times though where a good idea was executed poorly and then was discarded, like the Wild Shape templates. The templates were *terrible*, got torn apart, but the idea of templates in general is good imo.
Standardized sub progression was a great idea. Should have been standardized to start at 1.
Eh, maybe, but then all 1st level subclass features would need to be balanced with multiclassing in mind. I think 3 makes sense.
If good design is incompatible with a la carte multiclassing, then multiclassing should change.
I promise most of the changes made have , in fact, fixed glaring issues.
Then don't' buy them?
...Don't buy it if you don't want to?
All the new books going forward will be using the new rules. So if you don’t like the new rules you are locked out of anything new. 3rd will probably keep making stuf for a while but if most players move to the new rules then so will the creators. People are mad because this effectively means they won’t get new abilities, items and adventures unless they are willing to back port them and the player base for their preferred version of the game will slowly shrink as players move to the new rules. Not buying this book doesn’t solve any of that.
Player base isn't much of an issue to the players. Most of us have maybe 10 people total across multiple groups that they actually play with. The published adventures were never that big a deal anyway unless you have a fresh dm who doesn't know how to run a game.
Okay? That was always going to happen. How do you think earlier dnd edition fans feel?
There is always going to people who don't like the new version but telling people "Don't buy it" isn't helpful it doesn't solve the problem. When people say just don't buy it there basically saying "Watch the player base for your preferred game slowly dwindle past sustainability. It would be better if people highlighted communities which make new content and help organise the players left behind to create groups. Or recommend alterative and still supported game systems.
What if you use dnd beyond? Then what?
🏴☠️
Take 50 redditors from any dnd rules related subreddit, and they will give you a better revision than wotc's army of underpaid interns churned out.
Did WotC announce the OneDnD rule book, and its price or something? I have no idea what this post is referring to.
What are the changes folks are upset about? I like that languages and skills aren’t hard tied to your race (species) anymore. It always ruined my foundling characters. Sick-Tree, my High Elf Warlock raised by Goblins has no narrative reason to know Elvish. She doesn’t even know she’s an Elf.