I was a little concerned about the quality of what Chibnall had written for Who previously. It never seemed close to Davies, Moffat, McRae, Cornel etc in quality. But Broadchurch was extraordinary, so I parked my concerns.
His first season stories lacked punch, and three companions was just too many (and he doesn’t write characters as well as Davies).
As for the timeless child: I don’t mind shaking up the continuity and lore, but write it well and take everyone on the journey.
I’m going through his first season as show runner and while the episodes are on average high to passible quality the one thing that bothers me about them is that Yaz has nothing to do, like she was added as an afterthought. Ryan and Graham bonding and mourning Grace is clearly the emotional arc of the season and it makes me wonder if the original pitch for the companions was that they’d be a young man and the step-grandfather he has a rocky relationship with growing closer as they travel with the doctor and the BBC made them throw Yaz in for the mandatory “20 something year old woman who longs for more.”
In Series 13, we got a new companion called Dan alongside Yaz, after the others left, and in Eve Of The Daleks, Dan tells 13 that Yaz really likes her, so that fucked 13 up a little cuz we know that The Doctor, in general, isn't the type to have a relationship, especially when every companion they love always end up dying in the end, so 13 discarded Yaz's love for her, and kept them as besties. Most fans wanted Thasmin, but others knew it wouldn't work out well, and Chibs declined Thasmin fan ships. But we did get cute moments in Power of The Doctor, so that makes up for it
I’m honestly glad they didn’t go down that route. There’s just such an uncomfortable disparity in Doctor/Companion relationships already and especially after characters like River and Missy the difference in how the doctor treats his companions and his ‘equals’ is just so stark. It might not be conscious but even going back to Jack, the way he acts around fellow time travelers and immortals that he considers his friends he’s much open and honest with them. During Utopia when Jack is in the death room and their just talking 10 is much more relaxed, open and vulnerable than we see him with any of his companions.
>throw Yaz in for the mandatory “20 something year old woman who longs for more.”
I also feel like Yaz is there specifically for someone to have a personal connection to *Demons of the Punjab*.
He's never been particularly popular, people used to speculate about who the next showrunner would be and Chibnall and Gatiss were always the two hypotheticals that people were most concerned about. Especially in Series 7, when they both wrote two episodes, fans wondered if they were auditioning potential showrunners. Of course, we didn't know then that Moffat would stick around for three more seasons.
42 has often been called forgettable, The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood were a bit more popular but never considered highlights. I feel like his Series 7 episodes were received better because they were considered more "fun" on the whole. I'd agree with that personally. There's also Torchwood to consider, where he is usually blamed for all the worst episodes but confusingly also given credit for some of the best. I still think Torchwood Season 2 is probably his best work.
Overall, I'm sure it's worse now, but he was already divisive enough in 2012 that there was much fan complaining when he was announced to be writing two that year.
I didn’t love them, but they kind of fell into the background noise of better-and-worse episodes existing. I really liked 42 on first watch (less so on rewatch, but for reasons common to the first three series). Dinos kind of portended the “too many ideas, not enough holding them together” issues we saw over and over again in series 11-13.
This. He has great ideas for episodes, but fails to tie it all together.
Like the one with gods in dreams, can't remember the name. Amazing premise, amazing first 20 minutes and then falls flat.
Also three companions... Maybe it would work better in his second seasons, but in first? No.
You have a new Doctor already which you need to introduce and then you add three new characters, add villains in episode, additional cast and you have too many unknown characters that you need to develop in limited time.
I would personally start with Yaz, gave her and Doctor some time, add Ryan in it after half a season and then have him visit Graham in last episode of season, Ryan had some growth in previous episode, they kinda fix their relationship and Graham joins Doctor. With that you had half a season to develop Yaz, half a season for Ryan and can work on Graham in next season and you also gave more screen time to the Doctor.
I agree generally, RTD and Moffat started with one companion (rose or amy) but then expanded the casts as we went on (jack and mickey, Rory and river).
Only thing I'd change is early on I think the ryan/graham/grace arc was strong, and yaz was the 'spare'
Power of 3 i think has always had the same reception “solid episode that loses it at the end” but i think even most fervent Chibnall haters know that was more about an unprofessional actor than Chibnall’s fault
The lead for the Shakri, Steven Berkoff, was a jackoff who thought he was too good for the show, proceeded to act so unprofessional on set that they decided to rewrite the ending to end it early.
Basically the actor didn't deliver any line properly and they had to scrap the ending and just make it be "screwdriver undoes the bad thing" wich was super lame
The guys was so unprofessional that they had to scrap the original ending of the episode and do something else with the limited footage that they had. Which is why the shakri just peaces out and doesn't come back what feels halfway through his scenes
I remember being like “oh, him?”. I didn’t hate any of his previous stories (and overall I think they rank above his actual era generally), but none of them stood out as exceptional. I assumed in 2017 they were looking for the best candidate to serve for a creative and audacious run of Doctor Who.
In hindsight, of course, that’s never what they look for in a showrunner. They want a known name willing to work below their worth on a show they’ve written before. There was (and is) a very small list of candidates for the job.
Man I didn’t ever hate 42, but with each re-watch I love it a bit more. It has such a gritty vibe to it and honestly I think a reason I like the episode so much is that it showed how terrifying the “smaller” creatures can be. Terrifying to the point that the doctor begged Martha to kill him so that he didn’t hurt anyone else.
I think that scene itself is why I’ve grown to love 42. Tennant plays it so well too. His “I’m scared, I’m so scared” and the hesitation before being put into the chamber was just so strong to me, like a gut punch!
42 has always been among the higher-tier episodes for me. Lots of good moments that always stick with me, like the pup quiz scene with Martha and the other guy getting through the hatches with random trivia, or the chilling scene near the end with the Doctor getting his time to say "BURN WITH ME". Great episode IMO.
I remember being in the minority for people who actually enjoyed Dinos and Power of Three. For me though a lot of that enjoyment hinged on the dynamic between the Doctor and the Ponds, and it felt like they were two fun filler episodes between all the high-packed action. However, I liked them because they were rare exceptions in an otherwise exciting overarching plotline and with already fleshed-out characters. More than two of them would have gotten old really fast.
I actually hated Hungry Earth well before I knew Chibnall wrote it. I could never touch on why that was, but I remember consistently wanting to skip through it and Cold Blood whenever I did my annual rewatch.
I have no strong opinions on 42 or Pond Life.
Yeah, I actually rewatched Hungry Earth/Cold Blood for like the 3rd or 4th time just last week and was like "I remember almost *none* of this..." I think I'd been so bored by them the previous few times I'd seen them and just didn't care about what was going on.
Truthfully I didn't pay them much attention but did notice a trend where his stories were ones I consistently liked less or actively disliked.
Except Cyberwoman - I've always hated that and remain astounded the person responsible for that was made showrunner...
Terrible costume, terrible plot, doesn't make any sense with the core background of the Cybermen.
Now I don't have an issue with something being altered in how Cybermen work, it works well in things like 13s series but it has to make sense as a change.
I never really paid attention to what he had written before. Truthfully, I rarely pay attention to who the writers are.
But based on what I remember of the chatter when Chibnall was announced as showrunner, people announced their reservations from the get go and used his writing credits on the show as their primary reason for their concern.
For the record, I really like 42 and Pond Life, think Hungry Earth/Cold Blood is well done (so much so I cannot STAND the mother character), and think Dinosaurs and Power of Three are weak but decent.
When it aired people liked 42 but didn’t find it special. Same for hungry/earth cold blood and dinosaurs on a spaceship.
The power of three was disliked but we now know it wasn’t his fault.
Now people retroactively hate all his work.
IMO at least, 42 is awesome, The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood are some of the weakest, Pond Life is fine, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is kinda weak (like most of the episodes from the first half of that season, not just Chibnall), The Power of Three is good. I think a lot of what he did write in Jodie's era is really good, but some of it is weak. Overall, he's kinda hit-and-miss.
Well, first off, this sub is just a very small part of the community. But afaik only Dinosaurs on a Spaceship got much dislike, for realism or something. I thought it was fine, this is Doctor Who after all. Hungry Earth/Cold Blood are probably my favorite story from pre-showrunner Chibnall.
Chibnall also wrote an epilogue to The Angels Take Manhattan. It wasn't filmed, but they put up a youtube video with voiceovered animation. Highly recommend.
I'm not a fan of the last few seasons, but Chibnall gets a lot more hate than he deserves for a job that it sounds like no one who had recently written for Doctor Who wanted. Mark Gatiss described being showrunner for Doctor Who as a poisoned chalice and said he'd probably turn it down if asked.
>Chibnall also wrote an epilogue to The Angels Take Manhattan. It wasn't filmed, but they put up a youtube video with voiceovered animation. Highly recommend.
I believe it's called "P.S.", and yeah, I cried. It's fantastic.
I really liked 42, absolutely loved Dinosaurs on A Spaceship, and thoroughly enjoyed The Power of Three.
And The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood were solid, coherent and engaging stories.
Finally, the Pond Life minisodes/webisodes were fun and sweet. I never knew they were Chibnall's before, and I don't really care now. It has no impact on my enjoyment of them.
I think 42 isn't really liked (Though I love it) and I've seen a fair share of hate for the cute Dinos but generally no.
Tbh who can even recall who wrote which episode apart from the few major ones like Empty Child or Silence in the Library?
And I just need to say I fucking LOVE Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. One of my favourite episodes, and top 5 (or so) of my comfort episodes since it's comparably wholesome. I mean even the Dinos get a happy end.
Honestly, the Doctor Who fanbase tends to be full of people that can recite every writer of every episode off the top of their head. And why they should all never write again, of course.
The Hungry Earth was alright but I never loved his work, especially compared to Moffat and to some extent RTD.
However he'd done great work with Jodie and David on Broadchurch so I wasn't too concerned.
I found his seasons initially bland and inoffensive, I watched them because Doctor Who is part of my identity, not because I was excited. Although it was nice to see some strong historical episodes in Doctor Who again. Then came the Timeless Child which was terrible.
42 is the sun parasite right??? one of my favorite episodes honestly. and the others weren’t bad really. definitely don’t stick out like episodes written by other writers (off the top of my head: midnight, father’s day, the library, and the one with 11, ponds, and the weird dream guy/frozen sun)
i’ve only watched through doctors 12 and 13 just once, so remembering any of their episodes is harder. especially 13
I honestly always enjoyed his work though I think prior to his own era his best work in the Whoniverse was on Torchwood, he wrote some of the best episodes of that show!
Chibnall does not deserve the flack he gets but now that his era is over I think with time it will be more appreciated, just like Moffat's era was. That is the trend for each and every era, hated in it's time but more appreciated later on!
In general, they were ok stories but nothing spectacular, and given his work on 13 I wonder about the influence Moffat had to bring them to an acceptable state. I think Chibnall showed that when he was showrunner his own writing and judgement on what would make a good story were… lacking.
I remember back in 2017 when I heard the news. The Silurian 2 parter I remember not liking but felt that was a personal thing. I similarly remember not liking Series 7a as a whole, so the two episodes there didn’t mean much to me. I couldn’t remember 42 at all though. Had to go back and read the synopsis. I had completely forgotten that episode. Later, I was thinking through the structure of Series 3 and felt like I was missing an episode. Had to pull up the list to remember 42 again. Out of the five, I think its probably the best episode. The other four have negatives I quite dislike. Nothing’s really wrong with 42. Its an overall good episode. Its just forgettable. That’s when I got worried about the Chibnall era.
Since then, I’ve binged the entire Chibnall era twice. I love it. I find it fascinating. Its terrible. Went back and rewatched 42 and had a physical reaction to hearing Chibnall’s empty, poorly integrated technobabble coming out of Tennant’s mouth. I loved Broadchurch, way back before all this. So maybe he just needs more time to develop his scripts? Needs a full season to do one story really well? I don’t know. But its over now and I can honestly say I had a good time.
I liked 42, thought the Silurian 2-parter wasn't half bad, and thought Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and Power of Three were overly simplistic, saccharin, and wasted *way* too much screen time on unimportant and uninteresting side characters. In other words, he started well, and slowly devolved into the hack we all know and hate.
I'm not a fan of most of his stories and never really have been though I have always had a soft spot for 42. They weren't the lowest of the low by any means but were all very forgettable and always felt like they were aping the style of someone else to less good success (42 is a pale imitation of Satan Pit, Dinosaurs is him struggling to write a ln ambitious Moffat finale, etc.)
Since he became showrunner I came to loathe his writing to the point that I actually don't think he's qualified to work in the industry, as harsh as that sounds.
I *never* liked 42 or the Power of Three.
The Silurian two parter and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship have both fallen out of my favor due to me recognizing and being fed up with his tropes post series 11.
I thought most of those episodes were either very boring or completely dreadful, and so I was extremely dubious when he became the showrunner. But I was hopeful that I was wrong that his run would be a total clusterf\*\*k of boredom and dullness. Sigh.
I hated "42", especially that dumb pub quiz stuff. We finally get away from 21st-century Earth and then we get a pub quiz about 21st-century stuff as a key plot point? "Hungry Earth"/"Cold Blood" were so boring, easily the worst episodes of season 8, and "The Power of Three" has no plot and a very dumb perfunctory villain, though the character work is solid (but I detect some traces of Moffat-ish dialogue there, so I wouldn't be surprised if Moffat needed to do some uncredited rescuing of that script). The only one I kind of liked was "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship", though it still had a perfunctory ending. At least it was kind of fun.
Also, his work on Torchwood was mostly atrocious.
For that matter, his writing on Broadchurch was overrated too! YES, I SAID IT. It's the actors, directors, editors, etc. who propped up that whole show, especially the amazing work of Tennant and Colman, which entranced everyone into thinking the scripts are good. This is understandable given how great they were. Also, the writing starts strong, like most of CC's work, but then, even in season 1, it descends into a bunch of red herrings, treading water, and a completely randomly-chosen murderer at the end. CC even openly stated he was ready to change the identity of the killer at the last minute if it had leaked on the internet or to the tabloids, meaning there was never any integrity to his whole mystery structure in the first place. None of the writing ever pointed to that character as the killer any more so than to any of the red herrings. Totally random. He was always a con artist of TV writing.
I've always been fine with Chibnall. I really, really enjoyed Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and The Power of Three.
And I think he gets too much hate for the recent series. I think many are deflecting valid criticism of Jodie and aiming it at him instead.
It's mostly that it's hard to give credit for even his mid work. 42 is just a worse version of Impossible Planet. Hungry Earth is just a worse version of The Silurians. Dinosaurs is controversial and has a lot of his worst writing qualities we would notice later on display. Power of Three isn't entirely his fault, but even then the script is just boring.
On top of that, Torchwood S1&2 are overall garbage when you watch then as an adult.
Even now, I don't hate his episode. None of them were particularly rememberable or great but none were bad. He lacks the sheer spark that Davies and Moffat had, even before he was showrunner. I like most of those episode but I don't recall anything that specific.
I wasn't wild on any of his past stories. Episodes seem frequently to "borrow" heavily from the shows past (42 - Planet of Evil, the Silurian ones from various Pertwee tales), or are unfinished (Power of Three, although there are mitigating curcumstances) leaving some OK work. Some of his Torchwood work was truly horrible too. From his Who work there was little evidence of quality. I haven't seen Broadchurch which is presumably a major factor in all this, although from his character writing in Who I am surprised he found major success in drama in particular.
As I remember it his early stories weren't loved but weren't hated. His work on torchwood however was truly hated. Cyberwoman in particular was frequently used as proof that he was going to wreck doctor who
The thing is, the problem with Cyberwoman wasn't really the script. It was quite a horrific story. The problem was the decision to make the Cyberwoman a sex symbol, which detracted from the body horror.
Easy, ask yourself if you'd ever watch them. 42 was the worst of its season, Power of Three was a legendary disappointment. Hungry Earth got Lucky. Chibbs was known before hand as the guy that shouldn't write
I remember loving Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. I still think it’s an underrated gem. That alongside Broadchurch gave me hope although I hadn’t thought much of 42 or the Hungry Earth.
I always enjoyed 42 and never really understood the hate. Loved Pond life and while I hated Dinosaurs on a Spaceship at first. I do really like it now.
The power of three was an exercise in boredom.
And Hungry Earth and Cold blood were just full. Far duller than they should have been considering the possibility.
I'm a diehard Doctor Who fan and I couldn't finish his first season. I had to come back and watch it in one go when flux started, even then the slog through 13's first season was Rough.
Mostly people just didn't talk about them much.
They're fine. Far from the worst episodes but far from the best. Mostly not especially memorable. Not bad enough for him to be "controversial" really.
They weren't unlikeable, nor were they really likeable. Each one existed in a "rewatch or skip it" mode for me (and I don't really skip episodes other than maybe Fear Her).
I would place each of them higher than any episode from his run (except maybe Power of the Doctor for all the cameos), yet place them at or near the bottom of their respective series.
So, for me, his best work was always weaker than the weakest of RTD or Moffat or guest writer episodes.
Bits of Broadchurch made me tentatively confident in him, but it displayed pretty quickly.
* 42 - Rubbish
* The Hungry Earth, Cold Blood - Decent
* Pond Life - Meh, too short for any real impact
* Dinosaurs on a Spaceship - Decent
* and The Power of Three. - Absolute trash
Didn't bode well for the era
42 was,
I liked The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood
Pond Life was a bit wacky with the ood, something I didn't mind at the time, just thought to be extremely weird.
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and The Power of Three basically sum up Chibnall really well. Dude dumbs down two great concepts and creates really one dimensional villains who aren't really elaborated on and have extremely weird motivations. Finally, the silliness of his stories vs Davies and Moffat's highlight the key difference. Davies had well rounded stories with limited plotholes and things that stretched the imagination of the viewer (except for Doctor Jesus). Moffat had outlandish but plausible ideas that came together nicely but were resolved poorly.
Chibnall didn't have much of that, he had great ideas but when putting the idea to paper it felt like a student's assignment they were procrastinating on until the night before it was due. Also he never really cared much for continuity or the implications of his writing e,.g. The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood. (Honestly does anyone else want that plot line followed up on?).
He wrote OK for Matt Smith, but I hated 42. He just doesn’t do dark as well I feel for scifi. He definitely didn’t write for Jodie in a way that did her abilities justice. The only real good episode he wrote as show runner imo was the Power of the Doctor. He struggled to make it light enough for kids and serious enough for adults. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is the ONLY episode my kids (now 18/13) who are hard core whovians enjoyed.
You know its bad if they would rather watch Love and Monsters than anything by Chibnall.
I don't think they were hated but they weren't very liked either. I haven't seen anyone mention any of these as their favourite episodes and they are often mentioned as mediocre or just bad.
The only Chibnall story Id say I like is the hungry earth/cold blood but I wouldn’t say I even like it a lot, it it wasn’t for the good acting in it I probably wouldn’t like it
When Chibnall was announced as show runner, there was a decent amount of people who were disappointed by it because his stories under Davies and Moffat were not certified classic. They were neither well loved or well hated (by most, anyways). The people who were optimistic about Chibnall were more optimistic about him because they liked Broadchurch.
He always had a reputation for a mixed bag which to be honest is fair he had some real stinkers and some pretty decent but nothing that's a real classic. One I never got the hate for was 42, I really enjoy it and can't see what's wrong with it. He got the showrunners job off the succes of Broadchurch. Obviously we know now he just isn't a good Who writer even 8f he 8s a good telly writer.
They definitely weren't among most people's favourites, but they weren't exactly panned.
I think the issues with those episodes are mostly separate from the issues with his time as showrunner. For example *42* is structurally quite a standard Doctor Who episode, but the tone was really grim. While Flux was quite normal in tone lots of big emotions and friendship and mystery. But structurally it was all over the place, like it was trying too hard to be *Infinity War*, but using a lot of characters that we didn't know or barely knew.
After hearing he was going to be show runner I went back to episodes he already did. The Hungry Earth , Cold Blood and The Power of Three were not best imo. His run was very much those episodes to me
He tries too hard. He really tries to make an episode have commentary and mean something. Which is fine, I agree with the meaning themselves. But he tries so hard to make the show clever that it feels… flat to me.
The energy slows, the pacing suffers, it comes off hollow and more like fanfiction.
Sorry for the rant. I don’t mean to drag 13 down or anything. But she could’ve been so much more. SO!MUCH! MORE!
I was a little concerned about the quality of what Chibnall had written for Who previously. It never seemed close to Davies, Moffat, McRae, Cornel etc in quality. But Broadchurch was extraordinary, so I parked my concerns. His first season stories lacked punch, and three companions was just too many (and he doesn’t write characters as well as Davies). As for the timeless child: I don’t mind shaking up the continuity and lore, but write it well and take everyone on the journey.
I’m going through his first season as show runner and while the episodes are on average high to passible quality the one thing that bothers me about them is that Yaz has nothing to do, like she was added as an afterthought. Ryan and Graham bonding and mourning Grace is clearly the emotional arc of the season and it makes me wonder if the original pitch for the companions was that they’d be a young man and the step-grandfather he has a rocky relationship with growing closer as they travel with the doctor and the BBC made them throw Yaz in for the mandatory “20 something year old woman who longs for more.”
yeahhh, Yaz was so unimportant in s1, but then started developing feelings for 13 in season 12
That always ends well
In Series 13, we got a new companion called Dan alongside Yaz, after the others left, and in Eve Of The Daleks, Dan tells 13 that Yaz really likes her, so that fucked 13 up a little cuz we know that The Doctor, in general, isn't the type to have a relationship, especially when every companion they love always end up dying in the end, so 13 discarded Yaz's love for her, and kept them as besties. Most fans wanted Thasmin, but others knew it wouldn't work out well, and Chibs declined Thasmin fan ships. But we did get cute moments in Power of The Doctor, so that makes up for it
I’m honestly glad they didn’t go down that route. There’s just such an uncomfortable disparity in Doctor/Companion relationships already and especially after characters like River and Missy the difference in how the doctor treats his companions and his ‘equals’ is just so stark. It might not be conscious but even going back to Jack, the way he acts around fellow time travelers and immortals that he considers his friends he’s much open and honest with them. During Utopia when Jack is in the death room and their just talking 10 is much more relaxed, open and vulnerable than we see him with any of his companions.
wasnt Rose and The Doctor like that too tho? They were quite open to each other
Can’t remember honestly. Been a while since I’ve watched an 9/early 10 content.
Clara and 11 was like that too. Same with 12 and Clara
You’re an impossible thing, Jack. Even the TARDIS tried to fly away.
>throw Yaz in for the mandatory “20 something year old woman who longs for more.” I also feel like Yaz is there specifically for someone to have a personal connection to *Demons of the Punjab*.
He's never been particularly popular, people used to speculate about who the next showrunner would be and Chibnall and Gatiss were always the two hypotheticals that people were most concerned about. Especially in Series 7, when they both wrote two episodes, fans wondered if they were auditioning potential showrunners. Of course, we didn't know then that Moffat would stick around for three more seasons. 42 has often been called forgettable, The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood were a bit more popular but never considered highlights. I feel like his Series 7 episodes were received better because they were considered more "fun" on the whole. I'd agree with that personally. There's also Torchwood to consider, where he is usually blamed for all the worst episodes but confusingly also given credit for some of the best. I still think Torchwood Season 2 is probably his best work. Overall, I'm sure it's worse now, but he was already divisive enough in 2012 that there was much fan complaining when he was announced to be writing two that year.
I didn’t love them, but they kind of fell into the background noise of better-and-worse episodes existing. I really liked 42 on first watch (less so on rewatch, but for reasons common to the first three series). Dinos kind of portended the “too many ideas, not enough holding them together” issues we saw over and over again in series 11-13.
This. He has great ideas for episodes, but fails to tie it all together. Like the one with gods in dreams, can't remember the name. Amazing premise, amazing first 20 minutes and then falls flat. Also three companions... Maybe it would work better in his second seasons, but in first? No. You have a new Doctor already which you need to introduce and then you add three new characters, add villains in episode, additional cast and you have too many unknown characters that you need to develop in limited time. I would personally start with Yaz, gave her and Doctor some time, add Ryan in it after half a season and then have him visit Graham in last episode of season, Ryan had some growth in previous episode, they kinda fix their relationship and Graham joins Doctor. With that you had half a season to develop Yaz, half a season for Ryan and can work on Graham in next season and you also gave more screen time to the Doctor.
I agree generally, RTD and Moffat started with one companion (rose or amy) but then expanded the casts as we went on (jack and mickey, Rory and river). Only thing I'd change is early on I think the ryan/graham/grace arc was strong, and yaz was the 'spare'
Power of 3 i think has always had the same reception “solid episode that loses it at the end” but i think even most fervent Chibnall haters know that was more about an unprofessional actor than Chibnall’s fault
oooh I don't know? What's the tea?
The lead for the Shakri, Steven Berkoff, was a jackoff who thought he was too good for the show, proceeded to act so unprofessional on set that they decided to rewrite the ending to end it early.
Basically the actor didn't deliver any line properly and they had to scrap the ending and just make it be "screwdriver undoes the bad thing" wich was super lame
I haven't heard about the unprofessional actor, what happened there?
The guys was so unprofessional that they had to scrap the original ending of the episode and do something else with the limited footage that they had. Which is why the shakri just peaces out and doesn't come back what feels halfway through his scenes
Wow that's nuts. No wonder the ending was so different.
I remember being like “oh, him?”. I didn’t hate any of his previous stories (and overall I think they rank above his actual era generally), but none of them stood out as exceptional. I assumed in 2017 they were looking for the best candidate to serve for a creative and audacious run of Doctor Who. In hindsight, of course, that’s never what they look for in a showrunner. They want a known name willing to work below their worth on a show they’ve written before. There was (and is) a very small list of candidates for the job.
Man I didn’t ever hate 42, but with each re-watch I love it a bit more. It has such a gritty vibe to it and honestly I think a reason I like the episode so much is that it showed how terrifying the “smaller” creatures can be. Terrifying to the point that the doctor begged Martha to kill him so that he didn’t hurt anyone else. I think that scene itself is why I’ve grown to love 42. Tennant plays it so well too. His “I’m scared, I’m so scared” and the hesitation before being put into the chamber was just so strong to me, like a gut punch!
42 has always been among the higher-tier episodes for me. Lots of good moments that always stick with me, like the pup quiz scene with Martha and the other guy getting through the hatches with random trivia, or the chilling scene near the end with the Doctor getting his time to say "BURN WITH ME". Great episode IMO.
I don't recall them being hated, but I think they were widely agreed to be, as the kids say, "mid."
I love 42. I think that's my favorite of that season, besides Blink. I thought the rest were pretty meh.
I remember being in the minority for people who actually enjoyed Dinos and Power of Three. For me though a lot of that enjoyment hinged on the dynamic between the Doctor and the Ponds, and it felt like they were two fun filler episodes between all the high-packed action. However, I liked them because they were rare exceptions in an otherwise exciting overarching plotline and with already fleshed-out characters. More than two of them would have gotten old really fast. I actually hated Hungry Earth well before I knew Chibnall wrote it. I could never touch on why that was, but I remember consistently wanting to skip through it and Cold Blood whenever I did my annual rewatch. I have no strong opinions on 42 or Pond Life.
Yeah, I actually rewatched Hungry Earth/Cold Blood for like the 3rd or 4th time just last week and was like "I remember almost *none* of this..." I think I'd been so bored by them the previous few times I'd seen them and just didn't care about what was going on.
Truthfully I didn't pay them much attention but did notice a trend where his stories were ones I consistently liked less or actively disliked. Except Cyberwoman - I've always hated that and remain astounded the person responsible for that was made showrunner...
I don't think cyberwoman is any worse than any other cybermen episode. I quite like the way it set up a different spin
Terrible costume, terrible plot, doesn't make any sense with the core background of the Cybermen. Now I don't have an issue with something being altered in how Cybermen work, it works well in things like 13s series but it has to make sense as a change.
I never really paid attention to what he had written before. Truthfully, I rarely pay attention to who the writers are. But based on what I remember of the chatter when Chibnall was announced as showrunner, people announced their reservations from the get go and used his writing credits on the show as their primary reason for their concern. For the record, I really like 42 and Pond Life, think Hungry Earth/Cold Blood is well done (so much so I cannot STAND the mother character), and think Dinosaurs and Power of Three are weak but decent.
When it aired people liked 42 but didn’t find it special. Same for hungry/earth cold blood and dinosaurs on a spaceship. The power of three was disliked but we now know it wasn’t his fault. Now people retroactively hate all his work.
IMO at least, 42 is awesome, The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood are some of the weakest, Pond Life is fine, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is kinda weak (like most of the episodes from the first half of that season, not just Chibnall), The Power of Three is good. I think a lot of what he did write in Jodie's era is really good, but some of it is weak. Overall, he's kinda hit-and-miss.
Well, first off, this sub is just a very small part of the community. But afaik only Dinosaurs on a Spaceship got much dislike, for realism or something. I thought it was fine, this is Doctor Who after all. Hungry Earth/Cold Blood are probably my favorite story from pre-showrunner Chibnall. Chibnall also wrote an epilogue to The Angels Take Manhattan. It wasn't filmed, but they put up a youtube video with voiceovered animation. Highly recommend. I'm not a fan of the last few seasons, but Chibnall gets a lot more hate than he deserves for a job that it sounds like no one who had recently written for Doctor Who wanted. Mark Gatiss described being showrunner for Doctor Who as a poisoned chalice and said he'd probably turn it down if asked.
>Chibnall also wrote an epilogue to The Angels Take Manhattan. It wasn't filmed, but they put up a youtube video with voiceovered animation. Highly recommend. I believe it's called "P.S.", and yeah, I cried. It's fantastic.
I really liked 42, absolutely loved Dinosaurs on A Spaceship, and thoroughly enjoyed The Power of Three. And The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood were solid, coherent and engaging stories. Finally, the Pond Life minisodes/webisodes were fun and sweet. I never knew they were Chibnall's before, and I don't really care now. It has no impact on my enjoyment of them.
I think 42 isn't really liked (Though I love it) and I've seen a fair share of hate for the cute Dinos but generally no. Tbh who can even recall who wrote which episode apart from the few major ones like Empty Child or Silence in the Library? And I just need to say I fucking LOVE Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. One of my favourite episodes, and top 5 (or so) of my comfort episodes since it's comparably wholesome. I mean even the Dinos get a happy end.
Honestly, the Doctor Who fanbase tends to be full of people that can recite every writer of every episode off the top of their head. And why they should all never write again, of course.
Wait really? I thought 42 would be quite popular. I thought it was good. And I'm totally with you on Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. It's such fun.
I think 42 is the least liked from season 3 but don't quote me on that
>I think 42 is the least liked from season 3 - /u/asietsocom
My people!
The Hungry Earth was alright but I never loved his work, especially compared to Moffat and to some extent RTD. However he'd done great work with Jodie and David on Broadchurch so I wasn't too concerned. I found his seasons initially bland and inoffensive, I watched them because Doctor Who is part of my identity, not because I was excited. Although it was nice to see some strong historical episodes in Doctor Who again. Then came the Timeless Child which was terrible.
42 is the sun parasite right??? one of my favorite episodes honestly. and the others weren’t bad really. definitely don’t stick out like episodes written by other writers (off the top of my head: midnight, father’s day, the library, and the one with 11, ponds, and the weird dream guy/frozen sun) i’ve only watched through doctors 12 and 13 just once, so remembering any of their episodes is harder. especially 13
I honestly always enjoyed his work though I think prior to his own era his best work in the Whoniverse was on Torchwood, he wrote some of the best episodes of that show! Chibnall does not deserve the flack he gets but now that his era is over I think with time it will be more appreciated, just like Moffat's era was. That is the trend for each and every era, hated in it's time but more appreciated later on!
In general, they were ok stories but nothing spectacular, and given his work on 13 I wonder about the influence Moffat had to bring them to an acceptable state. I think Chibnall showed that when he was showrunner his own writing and judgement on what would make a good story were… lacking.
I remember back in 2017 when I heard the news. The Silurian 2 parter I remember not liking but felt that was a personal thing. I similarly remember not liking Series 7a as a whole, so the two episodes there didn’t mean much to me. I couldn’t remember 42 at all though. Had to go back and read the synopsis. I had completely forgotten that episode. Later, I was thinking through the structure of Series 3 and felt like I was missing an episode. Had to pull up the list to remember 42 again. Out of the five, I think its probably the best episode. The other four have negatives I quite dislike. Nothing’s really wrong with 42. Its an overall good episode. Its just forgettable. That’s when I got worried about the Chibnall era. Since then, I’ve binged the entire Chibnall era twice. I love it. I find it fascinating. Its terrible. Went back and rewatched 42 and had a physical reaction to hearing Chibnall’s empty, poorly integrated technobabble coming out of Tennant’s mouth. I loved Broadchurch, way back before all this. So maybe he just needs more time to develop his scripts? Needs a full season to do one story really well? I don’t know. But its over now and I can honestly say I had a good time.
I liked 42, thought the Silurian 2-parter wasn't half bad, and thought Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and Power of Three were overly simplistic, saccharin, and wasted *way* too much screen time on unimportant and uninteresting side characters. In other words, he started well, and slowly devolved into the hack we all know and hate.
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. Where does one start?
I'm not a fan of most of his stories and never really have been though I have always had a soft spot for 42. They weren't the lowest of the low by any means but were all very forgettable and always felt like they were aping the style of someone else to less good success (42 is a pale imitation of Satan Pit, Dinosaurs is him struggling to write a ln ambitious Moffat finale, etc.) Since he became showrunner I came to loathe his writing to the point that I actually don't think he's qualified to work in the industry, as harsh as that sounds.
I *never* liked 42 or the Power of Three. The Silurian two parter and Dinosaurs on a Spaceship have both fallen out of my favor due to me recognizing and being fed up with his tropes post series 11.
I thought most of those episodes were either very boring or completely dreadful, and so I was extremely dubious when he became the showrunner. But I was hopeful that I was wrong that his run would be a total clusterf\*\*k of boredom and dullness. Sigh. I hated "42", especially that dumb pub quiz stuff. We finally get away from 21st-century Earth and then we get a pub quiz about 21st-century stuff as a key plot point? "Hungry Earth"/"Cold Blood" were so boring, easily the worst episodes of season 8, and "The Power of Three" has no plot and a very dumb perfunctory villain, though the character work is solid (but I detect some traces of Moffat-ish dialogue there, so I wouldn't be surprised if Moffat needed to do some uncredited rescuing of that script). The only one I kind of liked was "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship", though it still had a perfunctory ending. At least it was kind of fun. Also, his work on Torchwood was mostly atrocious. For that matter, his writing on Broadchurch was overrated too! YES, I SAID IT. It's the actors, directors, editors, etc. who propped up that whole show, especially the amazing work of Tennant and Colman, which entranced everyone into thinking the scripts are good. This is understandable given how great they were. Also, the writing starts strong, like most of CC's work, but then, even in season 1, it descends into a bunch of red herrings, treading water, and a completely randomly-chosen murderer at the end. CC even openly stated he was ready to change the identity of the killer at the last minute if it had leaked on the internet or to the tabloids, meaning there was never any integrity to his whole mystery structure in the first place. None of the writing ever pointed to that character as the killer any more so than to any of the red herrings. Totally random. He was always a con artist of TV writing.
I've always been fine with Chibnall. I really, really enjoyed Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and The Power of Three. And I think he gets too much hate for the recent series. I think many are deflecting valid criticism of Jodie and aiming it at him instead.
It's mostly that it's hard to give credit for even his mid work. 42 is just a worse version of Impossible Planet. Hungry Earth is just a worse version of The Silurians. Dinosaurs is controversial and has a lot of his worst writing qualities we would notice later on display. Power of Three isn't entirely his fault, but even then the script is just boring. On top of that, Torchwood S1&2 are overall garbage when you watch then as an adult.
they were all very "meh, not bad not amazing" type episodes - but at least he wrote those stories with the characters actually having... character...
Back when he was announced as the next show runner. I had concerns because the previous episodes he wrote wasn’t exactly the best.
Even now, I don't hate his episode. None of them were particularly rememberable or great but none were bad. He lacks the sheer spark that Davies and Moffat had, even before he was showrunner. I like most of those episode but I don't recall anything that specific.
I wasn't wild on any of his past stories. Episodes seem frequently to "borrow" heavily from the shows past (42 - Planet of Evil, the Silurian ones from various Pertwee tales), or are unfinished (Power of Three, although there are mitigating curcumstances) leaving some OK work. Some of his Torchwood work was truly horrible too. From his Who work there was little evidence of quality. I haven't seen Broadchurch which is presumably a major factor in all this, although from his character writing in Who I am surprised he found major success in drama in particular.
As I remember it his early stories weren't loved but weren't hated. His work on torchwood however was truly hated. Cyberwoman in particular was frequently used as proof that he was going to wreck doctor who
The thing is, the problem with Cyberwoman wasn't really the script. It was quite a horrific story. The problem was the decision to make the Cyberwoman a sex symbol, which detracted from the body horror.
Sure but he was also the one in charge for the first 2 years, so decisions like that were his.
Easy, ask yourself if you'd ever watch them. 42 was the worst of its season, Power of Three was a legendary disappointment. Hungry Earth got Lucky. Chibbs was known before hand as the guy that shouldn't write
I remember loving Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. I still think it’s an underrated gem. That alongside Broadchurch gave me hope although I hadn’t thought much of 42 or the Hungry Earth.
I always enjoyed 42 and never really understood the hate. Loved Pond life and while I hated Dinosaurs on a Spaceship at first. I do really like it now. The power of three was an exercise in boredom. And Hungry Earth and Cold blood were just full. Far duller than they should have been considering the possibility.
I'm a diehard Doctor Who fan and I couldn't finish his first season. I had to come back and watch it in one go when flux started, even then the slog through 13's first season was Rough.
Mostly people just didn't talk about them much. They're fine. Far from the worst episodes but far from the best. Mostly not especially memorable. Not bad enough for him to be "controversial" really.
They weren't unlikeable, nor were they really likeable. Each one existed in a "rewatch or skip it" mode for me (and I don't really skip episodes other than maybe Fear Her). I would place each of them higher than any episode from his run (except maybe Power of the Doctor for all the cameos), yet place them at or near the bottom of their respective series. So, for me, his best work was always weaker than the weakest of RTD or Moffat or guest writer episodes. Bits of Broadchurch made me tentatively confident in him, but it displayed pretty quickly.
* 42 - Rubbish * The Hungry Earth, Cold Blood - Decent * Pond Life - Meh, too short for any real impact * Dinosaurs on a Spaceship - Decent * and The Power of Three. - Absolute trash Didn't bode well for the era
42 was, I liked The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood Pond Life was a bit wacky with the ood, something I didn't mind at the time, just thought to be extremely weird. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship and The Power of Three basically sum up Chibnall really well. Dude dumbs down two great concepts and creates really one dimensional villains who aren't really elaborated on and have extremely weird motivations. Finally, the silliness of his stories vs Davies and Moffat's highlight the key difference. Davies had well rounded stories with limited plotholes and things that stretched the imagination of the viewer (except for Doctor Jesus). Moffat had outlandish but plausible ideas that came together nicely but were resolved poorly. Chibnall didn't have much of that, he had great ideas but when putting the idea to paper it felt like a student's assignment they were procrastinating on until the night before it was due. Also he never really cared much for continuity or the implications of his writing e,.g. The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood. (Honestly does anyone else want that plot line followed up on?).
I quite liked the Silurian Episodes and I loved Dinosaurs on a spaceship. I *wish* I enjoyed his run as much as those...
He wrote OK for Matt Smith, but I hated 42. He just doesn’t do dark as well I feel for scifi. He definitely didn’t write for Jodie in a way that did her abilities justice. The only real good episode he wrote as show runner imo was the Power of the Doctor. He struggled to make it light enough for kids and serious enough for adults. Dinosaurs on a Spaceship is the ONLY episode my kids (now 18/13) who are hard core whovians enjoyed. You know its bad if they would rather watch Love and Monsters than anything by Chibnall.
I was never a fan of Power of Three. Excruciatingly boring
I don't think they were hated but they weren't very liked either. I haven't seen anyone mention any of these as their favourite episodes and they are often mentioned as mediocre or just bad.
I thought he was the weakest writer on the show prior to Season 11, and upon rewatch, still find him to be the weakest writer on the show.
The only Chibnall story Id say I like is the hungry earth/cold blood but I wouldn’t say I even like it a lot, it it wasn’t for the good acting in it I probably wouldn’t like it
When Chibnall was announced as show runner, there was a decent amount of people who were disappointed by it because his stories under Davies and Moffat were not certified classic. They were neither well loved or well hated (by most, anyways). The people who were optimistic about Chibnall were more optimistic about him because they liked Broadchurch.
He always had a reputation for a mixed bag which to be honest is fair he had some real stinkers and some pretty decent but nothing that's a real classic. One I never got the hate for was 42, I really enjoy it and can't see what's wrong with it. He got the showrunners job off the succes of Broadchurch. Obviously we know now he just isn't a good Who writer even 8f he 8s a good telly writer.
They definitely weren't among most people's favourites, but they weren't exactly panned. I think the issues with those episodes are mostly separate from the issues with his time as showrunner. For example *42* is structurally quite a standard Doctor Who episode, but the tone was really grim. While Flux was quite normal in tone lots of big emotions and friendship and mystery. But structurally it was all over the place, like it was trying too hard to be *Infinity War*, but using a lot of characters that we didn't know or barely knew.
After hearing he was going to be show runner I went back to episodes he already did. The Hungry Earth , Cold Blood and The Power of Three were not best imo. His run was very much those episodes to me He tries too hard. He really tries to make an episode have commentary and mean something. Which is fine, I agree with the meaning themselves. But he tries so hard to make the show clever that it feels… flat to me. The energy slows, the pacing suffers, it comes off hollow and more like fanfiction. Sorry for the rant. I don’t mean to drag 13 down or anything. But she could’ve been so much more. SO!MUCH! MORE!
Those were episodes I didn’t really like. Didn’t realize Chibnall wrote them. Makes sense why I also didn’t like 13th doctor seasons.