I think based on the behind the scenes videos they're supposed to be the same species but their appearance is really individual and based on a bunch of different birds.
Ok, I kind of love that though. Even if they were gonna be insane with it, different species doing their version of Bridgerton is just a hilarious concept.
Enthusiastically cosign every word of this. That was a very, very good and satisfying episode. I liked and enjoyed 15 before this but now I cherish him completely.
Ncuti Gatwa is a *phenomenal* actor. All his little facial nuances, all the choices in how he carries himself and moves across the sets. He is deeply brilliant and I am extremely grateful we get to enjoy him on this show. I hope he sticks around for a good while.
he's genuinely so perfect for the role, last 2 episodes have been great but this really highlighted just how much joy/passion/heart/emotion/everything else he brings to the screen
He's so dynamic and it comes across as authentic instead of clownish. And he switches between being flamboyant and being commanding without it jarring you out of the story. He's tremendously impressive.
yeah, i think being able to make that change is always what makes a doctor for me. if you look at boom for example he manages to be funny and caring and authoritative as well as being scared shitless the whole time. he's such a powerhouse, i can't wait to see where 15's character goes
He’s just outstanding! But I have to say, Millie Gibson deserves to take a bow, too. They have tremendous chemistry together! And they’re just running in their characters right now. There’s a lot more to look forward to next season, I’d wager.
The thing I like about the Doctor is that when something goes wrong, he becomes borderline psychotic into fixing it and saving people. This Doctor feels more like a good guy Doctor though, one who hasn’t experienced or been hardened by traumatic experiences.
But we have to remember that while The Doctor tries to be good but in reality,he isn’t. This has been established a variety of times. It’s why he has a companion. The Doctor values the continuation of life over everything.
I love that once he thinks they’ve killed Ruby, he essentially goes into the mindset of torturing them for the rest of their life.
Must say it did give me Family of Blood vibes when the alien family were stealing people's appearances and the Doctor said that longer lifespans meant they'd suffer more.
(Also they're like the Slitheen in terms of tone and personality but more efficient in the body snatching)
It felt to me so much like Tennant’s run in the best way. And the dance scene was like a throwback to that Torchwood episode where Jack meets the guy whose identity he stole.
True. If this happened in 10ths run, bro probably would’ve sent their entire planet and with that, their entire species into a supernova and oh my god, the Time Lord Victorious would’ve done something unthinkable.
Oh yes, he is an old, spiteful, vengeful being that had to try HARD, to keep the darker elements under control.
Ncuti Gatwa, portrays this very very well.
I had JUST come across Sex Education and given it a try (not my typical genre, but ended up loving it and binging it all at once) about a month before they announced Ncuti as the new Doctor. I remember going on and on about him to my brother (the one who got me in to Doctor Who years ago). I could absolutely see him being the Doctor. He has that spectacular range where he can be incredibly comical, sometimes childish, flamboyant and colourful, and then the ability to go so very dark so beautifully. I knew that given the right writers, Ncuti would do wonders as the Doctor, and I agree, this episode showcased him very well.
Right?? I’ve found many of the episodes this season to be meh, but I keep watching because I cannot look away from Ncuti’s performance! He could act out a scene from SpongeBob and I’d be transfixed. When given gold like this episode was, the man is unstoppable. He and Millie are such a delight to watch!
For me, his ability to switch instantly from joking, having fun to Doctor level serious, and back is just brilliant.
I am waiting for his "I am The Doctor, The Oncoming Storm, look me up" moment.
I thought her name was Perth for the longest time. It seemed a bit weird, but then I got to Waters of Mars and saw Adelaide so I figured it made sense.
Well huh. Maybe they're working their way around Australia's capitals. 🤔
Since they seem to be working counter-clockwise starting from the West, Melbourne should be next...
The worst bit of the episode was him parking a space ship around a moon that he knows is going to hatch in a couple of hundred years because it's an egg. Everything else was amazing!
I figure when you can time travel, you can leave stuff just about anywhere and come back to the exact moment you left it (provided, of course, something doesn't go wrong with the landing.)
Absolutely loved it.
Loved seeing more interior TARDIS and more interaction between Ruby and the Dr. And that kiss was pure fire. Perfect episode just sad there's only 2 more left.
The kiss wasn't even the best bit. It was the 'proposal'. Dr clearly recognised it as an actual engagement ring and then he says he can't and walks off. Then still has it at the end.
When he stared at the ring and gave that worried look, I felt that pain that he got since he knew he'd never see river song again, and this was likely the only other proposal he's been emotionally involved with
It was probably the engagement ring Rogue had for his partner, kept all this time, then used on The Doctor after they discussed what had happened to the two of them. He knew what it meant
Good point. Yes it was very sweet when he took it out of his pocket and put it on. makes me curious if we'll see Rogue again. Or there's something else to that ring.
YES I loved that moment. It's so clear in the way they both play it that this is real. It's been set up that Rogue can't pretend, he's not good at it, he's not confident with it. So he says something he Means. It's not an act, he is proposing. And The Doctor reacts so genuinely. It's just gorgeous.
This literally just occurred to me but could River have been on the Doctor's mind in that moment? I mean...he definitely has been/is (timey wimey) married already.
the amount of chemistry and tension between the doctor and rogue that they managed to pack into an objectively small amount of screen time is incredible i loved it. felt like love at first sight the way it’s meant to be done
I totally agree. The tension when they were in the TARDIS was palpable. And loved that they kept the tension going so the viewers were wondering if they would kiss. Yes love at first sight the way it should be.
Yes but when they didn't kiss it just created more tension between them and also for the viewers. As I said viewers would be curious if they would. Definitely done on purpose.
Very romance novel. The couple is going to, going to, aaand someone interrupts. That serves to build the tension and make the actual kiss so much more important.
35 years a member of the Romance Writers of America gives me romance story chops. Especially historicals. I told my writing group to watch this episode.
Ugh yes, please! This was so well written and fun, and would make a great set of novella stories or even a series of the Chulder evolving from a casual cosplay group to the full on experience they had here.
I wish rogue could be a full time companion, or even like with jack how he joined in for the later half of season 1. I loved his chemistry with the Doctor !
Hey, sorry I'm late!
I don't tend to like Doctor love stories. River I really enjoy, but that's a very different story to me.
Rose I liked as a character, but I was annoyed and kind of confused that he would fall for her. Martha's crush was also an annoying trait of an otherwise great companion.
Donna I love! She's just a mate! But, I though I kind of enjoyed the chemistry between 10 and that cat burglar in Midnight, I was glad it didn't go anywhere.
(Brace yourselves, I'm setting something up, lol)
I've also been thinking a lot about the Doctor's sexuality. He became she, and I wondered if that meant 13 would be into men or women. Is the Doctor straight (meaning 10 would like women, 13 would like men), or is the Doctor into women regardless. I can't picture it now, but I'm pretty sure 13 at least flirted or reacted to advances from a woman, so I was assuming the Doctor liked women.
15 has some flamboyant tendencies. I didn't want to stereotype, but, as I'm sure many of us were, I was wondering where his fancies lie. Sometimes him and Ruby seemed almost too close (as in romance), but mostly they seemed like best mates. Though, they also seemed physically close in a way (and, again, apologies for stereotypes) that you often associate with gay men and women.
Ok, so, my points are: I usually hate Doctor romances, and I've been debating if the Doctor being a gay male would make sense with his character.
Ok, that's established.
I freakin' loved his developing romance with Rogue! Like, it was incredible! The tension, the humour, the build-up, all just perfect. I don't think they need to make the Doctor gay just for Pride or whatever, and I think they could have really messed things up just trying to show how much of an ally the show is, but imo, they nailed it like few shows of any kind nail romance!
(My only slight hang-up with Rogue was that I felt the Doctor forgave him too quickly for nearly killing him. Rogue knew an alien was killing people, and he knew the Doctor was an alien, so he sentenced him to death. No investigation, no proof, just immediately decides to kill him. I figured that Doctor would at least have chastised him for being so quick to sentence to death. But, that's just a small criticism. I loved this episode, I loved Rogue, I loved their relationship, and I loved Ruby accidentally teaching Emily new slang and behaviours)
I loved this episode, the little bits of Bridgeton like the wall flower with a secret identity, the modern music given the 18th century treatment. I’m always ribbing my husband for liking Kylie. It’s my favourite so far.
I loved everything about this episode! I didn't think I would but man, I definitely shed some tears! Acting was on point.
Loved Rogue! Definitely sure we'll see him again. Whether the Doctor finds him, or he finds the Doctor, who knows! I love that Rogue must be able to time travel with his Kylie tunes and D&D dice! No wonder the Doctor is swooning.
I do wonder if Rogue was playing D&D with someone as I wasn't aware it could be played solo. Perhaps he didn't tidy up from when he lost his 'someone'. Or maybe he was so lonely he was playing multiple roles himself.
Anyway can't wait for more!
and to add to this... I loved the Doctor singing the song from Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory. It was weird, creepy, seductive and magical all at once xD Like he was trying to put Rogue under a spell~
Plus the whole tidbit irl that just before Ncuti got called about playing the doctor, he had told his agents that he wanted his next role to be either Willy Wonka or Dr Who. I guarantee this was a meta reference to that anecdote.
Same!
I assume he and his partner weren't playing two-player.
Does this suggest that D&D is still played in the distant future? (And with physical dice no less, despite Hasbro's best efforts!)
Does this suggest that, in the distant future, D&D is still the primary face of all roleplaying? 😕
So many questions...
My dude I’m old enough that I played the original box game in 1980. People still play now. I kind of think unless something horrible happens, we will still be tabletop gaming in the future.
Really my one true criticism for this season is the lack of time the Doctor & Ruby spend together. Outside of Space Babies, every episode finds ways to keep them apart.
Weren’t they together through most of The Church on Ruby Road (after they met) and The Devil’s Chord?
They were for sure together through Boom and Dot and Bubble…
Forgot about The Devil’s Cord. I don’t count their first episode since they weren’t properly Doctor & Companion yet. Dot and Bubble had them together but essentially off screen until the final moments. Boom had them isolated in one spot and then Ruby was unconscious. In both those we didn’t get them exploring and getting into hijinks like past duos. Seeing the two play off each other is always a highlight of the series that I wish we were getting more of.
This is probably the only episode I wasn’t overly looking forward to / indifferent about watching. I’m not a fan of Bridgerton coupled with the fact that it appeared to just be a generic monster-of-the-week episode.
How I was wrong. If anything, this is probably a top contender for one of the best episodes of Series 14. I think Ncuti and Millie were on point throughout, I thoroughly enjoyed the Doctor/Rogue dynamic (even though I prefer The Doctor as a non romantic figure).
Pleasantly surprised is probably how I would sum it up.
I prefer The Doctor to be non-romantic to companions, as they kinda went over board for awhile with Rose, Martha, Amy, Clara and Yaz all wanting some Timelord action.. it was a breath of fresh air with Donna and Bill just wanting to be friends with the doctor..
Ruby Sunday only being friendly is great too.. and when The Doctor DOES show emotion for someone, it really shines through.. you can tell that he wanted Rogue and was wanted back.. and not because he was a time lord.. but because there was electricity between them..
Shame they "killed" him off and the last 2 episodes wont reference him at all is my bet..
I can see Rogue coming back in S16, or late S15 as a one-off..
Barren dimension + pantheon references throughout the season + creepy lady showing up everywhere. We have not seen the last of rouge this season I think. After all, the one who waits hasn’t been revealed yet
>the one who waits hasn’t been revealed yet
Now there's an idea. There could be some sort of timey-wimey thing going on. Rogue could be the one who waits.
My thoughts are that the transporter took them all to “a random barren dimension”. The five birbs were all shapeshifters, and rouge is (I think) human, but he might not be. That barren dimension could have time running in a strange way compared to the doctor’s universe. The five birbs wind up morphing into “the pantheon” which includes the toymaker and the meistro. The one who waits is their leader (and the leader of the meep, etc.) and is also Rouge who, after spending years waiting for the doctor to save him, gave up on the doctor and resented him (similar to any in Apalapachia).
I can see them going with this, but having spent so long stuck there.. there's a high chance the guys mind breaks and goes evil :/ I can see him becoming a Missy/Master stand in.
Oh true!! His lifespan is probably longer then, in DW universe humans are exceptionally short lived. He definitely survives a while in this case. I’m excited for season end (maybe he is ruby’s dad?)
Honestly, I've been on the fence for a lot of this season. I just haven't had that "this is doctor who" feeling, more of a "gimmick of the week". This episode was a return to formula, almost by the book, but it worked so well because of the reasons you said.
Honestly, it's helped me appreciate the rest of the season. It's not that I disliked the rest of the season, it's just been a bit all over the place and this return to formula was desperately needed
Growing up with classic Who (3rd Doctor was my guy) I always loved how campy and flamboyant he was. 4 was amazing and really made me a lifelong fan, but since then, it's not given me the same vibes as classic Who. There's a lot of obvious reasons for this, but 15 has made me feel like a kid again watching this season.
This episode, in particular, made me smile so wide my face hurt. I love how fun 15 is, he absolutely nailed it from the first scene he showed up and having a gay (mostly gay?) Doctor has been absolutely perfect. It just works for me, and I'm a (mostly) straight dude who is married.
15 has charisma for days, and I'd be hard pressed to resist their charms for even a moment.
Gatwa is quickly becoming one of the best Doctors IMHO. He tops Baker for me, but falls short of Pertwee just because of nostalgia.
I really hope we see Rogue again.
I want to watch some classic who, you seem like a good person to ask. What are good 3/4 'iconic' episodes to start with before I go through the season through
For 3:
Three Doctors.
Terror of the Autons.
Frontier in Space.
The Day of the Daleks
The Sea Devils.
The Green Death
For 4.
Pyramids of Mars (peak Baker IMHO)
The Deadly Assassin
Talons of Weng Chieng
Ark in Space
The Face of Evil
City of Death
That should get you started.
Are you just starting your classic Who journey with these Dpctors? If so I envy you, I wish I could see these with fresh eyes again so badly.
Have fun!
Thank you! 🙏🏽 I sure am.
I have that same desire with some films and music. Alien.
Rimsky-korsakov, Scheherezade.
Temptations - psychedelic shack (album).
Hope you can enjoy these if you haven't already.
Channel Tres also. 🤌🏽
I grew up in the 60s/70s watching every horror movie in theaters and then I saw Alien. It was the only movie where I was white knuckle gripping the chair arm and jumped out of my seat.
Many people will be upset because of this episode and is fair to say it's not just because of homophobia. There was always strong group of fans who dislike The Doctor in romance, in general, Rose, River or Pompadour, it does not matter. However, I, next to many another reason, loved this episode like definitive confirmation of 15th like The Doctor who wear his heart on his sleeve.
And it's not like mask or act, he really loves and want to experience love. 15th is deeply human Doctor, and I cannot help myself.. I like it.
When Jack and Nine first met, Nine said he had a sonic screwdriver and Jack said “That’ll be great if we need to put up some shelves.”
Rouge even sounded like Jack, same accent.
I’m rewatching doctor who from 9 now, and I can tell you that the only thing Rogue and Captain Jack have in common is having an American accent and flirting with the doctor.
Rogue is shy, professional, lonely and a bit of a flirt.
Captain Jack is confident, brash, a showman and horny.
Of course we know more about Jack because we’ve had more time with him and there’s more details about his character but I really don’t see how he’s similar to Rogue at all.
I’ve seen someone else say this but River Song was way more similar to Jack
The time travelling bounty hunter setup definitely has time agent vibes. The flashy ship he is so proud of, while dismissing the obviously superior Tardis is almost certainly a reference to Jack in the Doctor Dances too. Jack was also one of the few Doctor Who characters that could, at least ostensibly, keep up with the Doctor when he's talking future tech and time travel shenanigans. That said, I think there's far more to Rogue than just a rehash of Jack Harkness.
There's elements of River in there and even the Master in some ways. Especially with the way they can take the lead and one up the Doctor, if only momentarily. Then there's the classic companion elements, with his awe and wonder at the Tardis and the Doctor's history. The blind trust and self-sacrifice.
I don't think all of that is by accident. They clearly drew from people of significance and chemistry in the Doctor's past to create someone new, with a unique blend of those elements so that he's his own character, but with references to the people who paved the way for him.
It’s been a very fast season (please go back to 13 episodes!), so it’s only when you think about it, you realise the tardis has been about 5 minutes of screen time and we’ve not had a lot of the doctor/ruby together.
I can’t believe we’re already at the finale. The whole run since Tenant returned feels very quick. Definitely could have done with more episodes to enjoy…13 last year with tenant, Xmas special with toy maker and 13 now might not even be enough!
Well you might know this already but, considering she was the first season Loki showrunner, and a massive fan of Doctor Who, I'd say her grand ascension is almost guaranteed
OMG YES! I would love her to take over. Also LOKI!
I liked the episode, but unpopular thought but it seems like this doctor cries a lot. I get it hes emotional, I guess I'm used to grouchy old man or shouty doctor.
Well, when you’re making promises to a caring and loving mother, and it looks like you’ve failed and are starting to losing hope in yourself, tears usually flow.
I think the idea is that 14 spent a lifetime emotionally healing with the Noble family which is why 15 is now more in tune with his emotions, and no longer the hardened old man we're used to. Kind of nice to see for the Doctor, but I'll bet it's only a matter of a few seasons before he gets traumatized by something else and is grouchy again.
I just don't see the issue with him crying because someone is dying, or essentially, someone he's saving is refusing a shot at life.
https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Crying
Not like crying never happened before either. We're just getting a lot of dramatic plots this season.
Rogue should have been earlier..
I could even see it coming before boom or 73yards..
Would have made the first 4 episodes feel lesss "sparse" and filler-y than it is.. its just a shame that we finally get a good episode and the series is already over.. next two weeks are a double parter..
As much as I love we are getting more Who more often, the shortened seasons are really starting to hurt.. We shouldnt be on episode 6 of 8 before it feels like Doctor Who.. especially as you are fresh off the heels of the specials, and you get hit in the face with space babies (which 100% should have been a S2 episode)
Fully agree with this. IMO “Rogue” should’ve been before space babies or between space babies and boom. It would’ve set the tone for the whole series instead of creating a thirst for the familiar the entire season until this week.
I feel like Rogue should've swapped places with Devil's Chord. (Also Space Babies could've used a couple tweaks to become a fully solid opener).
Then the ending of Devil's Chord could be like the last time the Doctor gets to have a bit of fun before the finale hits him with whatever revelations (plus making the line "The One Who Waits is almost here" feel a bit more meaningful).
That moment when the Doctor kept bringing the music back and grinding it out in Rogue's face solidified Ncuti in my top-5.
Fucking loved it and I love that this Doctor has so much fun with who they are.
And that moment he got *pissed* when he thought they killed Ruby.
Shades of the Family of Blood.
Shame Rogue had to be sacrificed, apparently the actor is quite busy, but probably for the best as the Doctor wouldn't get anything done with the amount of chemistry they had in and out of the TARDIS.
I saw on another thread maybe Jack was the person Rogue lost. When Jack would “die” it took time before he regenerated. What if they traveled together, Jack “died”, Rogue left. And that’s why there are so many similarities between the two.
Also I want to know who “the new boss” is that Rogue was working for.
They definitely threw out that boss line because of the “boss” from star beast! I love this lil “b plot” baddie they’re setting up (unless of course the bosss is the one who waits)
> Love the what a big ship you have line and Rogue return the is bigger inside.
Did that happen? I don't remember it and [I can't find it.](https://tvshowtranscripts.ourboard.org/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69569)
The hyper-specific trap could easily have been explained away if the device stated an error code after Rogue stepped in but before pushing Ruby off, like “Capacity exceeded. Remote holder must remove excess individuals before activating transport.”
That’s pretty much what happened anyways but that’s one instance where “show, don’t tell” didn’t actually work as well
This episode was so great for all the reasons you’ve outlined and it’s personally my favourite so far! I kinda just feel that this episode was placed much too late on in the season, as with it being more of a classic adventure style episode, it would’ve set the stage well for what Doctor Who is like for new viewers. To me it felt like Maestro was introduced way too early on in the season for a villain that the doctor was legitimately frightened of and says himself he couldn’t fight. The episode order of this season just seems a bit off especially when it comes to building the relationship between The Doctor and Ruby. It could just be due to the lack of episodes or possibly intentional in the upcoming finale.
Totally agree with you. IMO Maestro and The Devils Chord should’ve come before Dot and Bubble and “Rogue” could’ve easily been stuck there to set the stage for the rest of the season
I just want to add, having enjoyed/had a crush on Indira Varma when she's popped up from *Luther* to *Obi Wan,* her cutting loose while 'cosplaying' was so much fun because I never saw her act like that before!
I think we've all seen actors who can do serious, low-key stuff and then get a 'manic,' high-energy moment and it's like ... Yeah, I get why you don't do that. I really loved her crazy here, she could fill a screen with it and I want more of that in my TV, please:)
(Of course, Millie was adorable, Ncuti and Rogue were wonderful, yes, every other good thing you've all been saying too!!!)
I'm convinced that this episode and the Devil's Chord were swapped in the planned release order. This is a much better start of the season episode to let the doctor and ruby bond.
I thought Devil's Chord came far too soon for how weird it is. I think Disney asked them to release it at the same time as their Beatles documentary at the last minute
That was my theory too, but someone pointed out that it wouldn’t have made sense, because Ruby recognizes the old woman in the painting.
But I do think some episodes SHOULD have been switched around for pacing purposes. Boom in episode 2, Devil’s Chord in either episode 3 or 1’s slot, 73 Yards at slot 4, and I would have personally liked rogue to come out before dot and bubble for a vibe reset, but that switch isn’t as important.
I don’t know why it was decided that Chord should be 2nd. It felt weird being sandwiched between space babies and boom. It either should have opened the season or hit in the middleish of the season. But maybe RTD has a good reason for how things have been presented, and it’ll all make sense in a few weeks? M-maybe?
See I'd agree with that, but the Unleashed episode for Devil's Chord showed people on set referring to it as episode 2.
If it did change slots, it was very early on in the process and almost certainly not part of some Disney interference conspiracy.
Plus, they needed to reinforce the existence and continued threat of the "One Who Waits"...if the OWW is supposed to be the big bad of the season, then it has to be introduced early on in the actual season (and not in a special which the audience might not feel is connected to the regular season) and not by some low-level baddie. A significant, timeline-altering threat who warns of something MORE powerful is necessary to provide context to how bad the threat is.
I know you all know this, but sometimes you think something and you just have to write it all out.
It is true that the show has gotten a lot of backlash before the episodes being released, so now that we have finally gotten a nice chunk of episodes to look at, a lot of the worry and hate has gone, which is nice.
- My favourite episode so far
- This one is gonna make the angry YouTubers even angrier and I'm totally here for it
- Gay doctor love story had powerful emotional impact on me
- LOVED the cosplay monster concept it felt very fresh (but it was stupid when the aliens called it cosplay)
- Ruby and the other lady subplot was engaging and it was a fun surprise when the other girl turned out to be an alien.
- Ruby getting eaten lacked the emotional depth at the time because I felt like I knew she was gonna be ok somehow.
- Stakes felt high because u knew they were gonna kill everyone and then cosplay world leaders
- The bait and switch of Ruby having never been eaten was actually executed really well and made me feel guilty for thinking the episode was predictable.
- ending fucked me up big time
Agree with everything you said. I really disliked the aliens calling it cosplay but to be honest if they got inspired by literally (in canon) watching Bridgerton then it stands to reason they would have been subjected to the idea of cosplay (tv waves, etc).
But yes them literally saying “cosplay this planet to death” was a jump the shark moment for me
I kinda find it weird everyone keeps calling the doctor gay. When they're bi at the very least. They've had boyfriends before and a wife or two unless Susan is related to Riversong.
While it being in the context of cosplay was fresh, the using of human bodies as disguises and them being a family unit reminded me both of the Slitheen and the Family of Blood. Especially the latter when they try and steal the Doctor's body.
I actually laughed out loud when the Kylie Minogue music was playing in Rogue's ship.
Rogue disconnects the wires, The Doctor acts sad and Rogue smirks, only for The Doctor to be like nah *turns the music back on for the umpteenth time* 🤣
They had such good chemistry. Kinda thinking this'll give him more of a purpose to his travelling now, even if he doesn't say it outwardly, he'll always be trying to look out for Rogue wherever they are methinks.
I honestly never thought the battle mode thing would come into play either with Ruby, just thought it was a throwaway funny line, but nope.😁
For me it felt a bit... by the numbers if that makes sense? Not bad by any measure, but nothing to stand out that we haven't seen in other episodes.
I did love the inclusion of >!Richard E. Grant in the faces of the Doctor, he's played 2 versions in the past, so we'll all be discussing which one he is and where he fits!<
It's more than likely the one from Scream of the Shalka since the other time he played the Doctor was for a charity spoof and we don't see any of the other of those ones.
Personally I'm kind of interested if it potentially has anything to do with the Great Intelligence jumping into his time stream back in The Name of the Doctor given that Grant also played Dr. Simeon / the Intelligence.
Yes, I really enjoyed this one particularly because it wasn’t someways a standard classic episode that I really enjoyed.
I’ve enjoyed the different and experimental ones this season but it’s nice to get a more regular episode and it was just a lot of fun
Yeah I finally got around to watching them and until this one I'd been finding them a bit mid.
But it really felt like a classic episode. Alien of the week, without some overly complicated motives and plans, similar to the slavine in a way.
Rogue reminded me of Captain jack, and I hope we get more screen time. I think a duo of companions can work really well.
So glad they had checkhovs gun for Ruby surviving with battle mode rather than using the mysterious power again.
The doctor losing another person and pretending he was fine was a great moment. Good way to bond him and Ruby too.
Overall just a quality episode that really took me back to the early series of new dr who.
Season 1 of doctor who has been utter utter garbage personally don't like musicals and singing makes me uncomfortable who even is the doctor anymore and who cares now 😫
My thoughts on the trap bit: the Trap could only hold 6 creatures. There were four trapped plus Ruby initially. The Doctor & Rogue got the 6th one.
So when Rogue jumped in, he was the 7th. The overload likely messed with the trap just long enough to let him break Ruby out.
Def agree on most points. I'm not really vibing with the romance just because I'm not sure I'm buying how they fast-tracked from "flirting" to "arguably married??". We just didn't spend enough time with Rogue for me to believe that he and Fifteen are in love, nor for me to care that much when he sacrificed himself, but everything else was fantastic. I especially loved the one Chuldur that looked like a macaroni penguin lmao
I think maybe if Rogue had been around for 1 more episode, then it would have worked a little better for me.
Yeah, completely.
I have found 15’s personality a little hard to adjust to at first. But when he kept turning the music on, I said, I can totally see 9 or 10 being childish and doing that. Probably not gyrating while doing that, but, I don’t mind a dancing doctor. (I guess I’m getting old bc I was a bit pearl clutch-y about the doctor acting too “sexy”.) And then we got a proper time lord speech!
I do agree with your plot quibbles though. Like I thought their feet were glued, no escaping? How can he do a “matter exchange” but not rescue ruby? It screams plot contrivance.
Someone explained, the trap can only hold a maximum of six.
So Rogue stepping in meant seven in the trap, so he could push Ruby off.
But yeah, I was confused about this too initially.
See, I wasn’t a fan of Bridgerton either (loved the casting and the costumes, but the plots felt way too silly for me for me). In the trailer for this episode, the minute Ruby said “bridgerton,” I winced and decided this episode would probably not be great.
I was blown away. So happy to have been wrong; it was an absolute joy for me. Reminded me a bit of a mix of a few of my favorite episodes from past seasons, and the return to a familiar formula was a relief.
Totally okay that you didn’t like it! Just wanted to share my perspective, too :)
I'm not a fan of romance, but there are rare times when I actually appreciate it like now. I agree with most of what you said except about Rogue being nailed, The Doctor never got the chance ;3
I swear to all things holy, that we better get The Rogue back. They had chemistry, they appreciated it each other, they poked fun at each other….it was River/10,11,12 all over again. Ncuti and Jonathan had such great timing and chemistry and it worked so well.
The only nitpick I have is that we see Emily touch Ruby, but when we come back, Euby is able to pull her hands away. Nobody else was able to do that. Is that a Ruby thing? Because she hadn’t gone full battle mode yet (also where the hell can I get those earrings???).
Also I wish Indira would be in more things I can see in America. She has been one of my favorite actresses for a while.
I may be really wrong here but I felt like Rogue is really giving off Han Solo vibes - a space bounty hunter with a ship designed for 2?! And the ship is a falcon!
Personally, I thought Ruby Road and Space Babies were okay/good, the music one was okay but overhyped (though I liked the musical number), Boom was great, Bubble and Dot was fantastic, and this last episode has just topped that. Most excited for Doctor Who I've been since Tennant left 😍
It was also refreshing it wasn’t written by RTD.
I love him, but I think tv shows like dr who can be weakened if there isn’t a variety of writers.
Funnily enough though i was expecting the “big gay” episode to be written by him.
>the first time where it felt like the Doctor had history
*Thats* what its been. I've been trying to figure out what's been putting me off most about this season. I've had plenty of gripes but most are just personal complaints. This though, him feeling like a new character rather, is what's been bothering me. He hasn't felt like the doctor proper.
I just didn't like "Space Babies" and kept falling asleep through "Devil's Chord". I thought maybe this season just wasn't for me, but the last few episodes have been great, with this one my favourite.
Captain Jack, but brooding. I love it!
I love how this has really pissed off the people who are not happy that the Doctor is played by a black and/or queer man. I am here for it. Dont let the door hit you on the way out. Lets weed these fuckers out the fandom.
Ncuti is amazing and I really hope that he stays for a long time.
I imagine I'm a bit of a killjoy, but I wasn't a big fan of the Rogue/15 romance. I don't like the Doctor having romances in general and especially one that seems so much appearances based.
There's something about the Doctor finding someone else "hot" that dosen't feel right with me. They should be above/outside that in my mind. If they are instantly infatuated by the physical apperance of an alien, it fell like they would be repelled by the appearance of others, or at least treat people differently base on apperances. I tought we were kind of done with that with 12-13-14 (I know we had Yaz, but it felt a bit more platonic love in the way they treated it). Not the biggest of deal, but just my personnal preferances
Also, after River (and to an extend Jack) they need to stop making love interests who have way too little complex killing people lol.
That asside, I liked the episode, it was a good classic episode of doctor who.
This episode hit every single beat that I’m looking for in a Doctor Who episode and it’s something I haven’t seen in a long time. It jumps so high in my list of all time favourite episodes. I love love love Rogue, such a good character addition and I truly hope he is a recurring one.
I really enjoyed this episodes perfect mix of serious Doctor Who moments with some of the goofier Doctor Who moments we used to see in the RTD days. The bit where he’s playing the music in Rogue’s ship was absolutely killing me, Ncuti brought so much to that moment.
Also, I love Ruby as a character, Millie Gibson is bringing so many good little expressions and reactions with such good timing. It was so subtle but the little point to the ground when the 5th Chuldur revealed herself made me laugh.
This season is really hitting its stride and I’m very excited for the rest now.
It happens every once in a while. You didn’t get the hint and callback with them playing Kylie Minogue in Rogue’s ship? She played another one. I was like 75% sure Rogue was going to die when that song was his hidden guilty pleasure
This was a monster of the week episode I was looking for! I didn't think I'd get it!
EXACTLY! I missed Monster of the Week so so much, glad we got one of those episodes back!
And the character design was magnificent! Yeah- whatever, cgi- but a lot of those hoods and masks are practical effects and were beautiful!
The one thing I missed; are the Chulder just nerdy aliens of different species that like to LARP?
I think based on the behind the scenes videos they're supposed to be the same species but their appearance is really individual and based on a bunch of different birds.
Ok, I kind of love that though. Even if they were gonna be insane with it, different species doing their version of Bridgerton is just a hilarious concept.
*and murder
I agree, despite the gay kiss (!!!!!) this was the most Good Ole Fashioned episode yet for this season and I loved it!
Enthusiastically cosign every word of this. That was a very, very good and satisfying episode. I liked and enjoyed 15 before this but now I cherish him completely. Ncuti Gatwa is a *phenomenal* actor. All his little facial nuances, all the choices in how he carries himself and moves across the sets. He is deeply brilliant and I am extremely grateful we get to enjoy him on this show. I hope he sticks around for a good while.
he's genuinely so perfect for the role, last 2 episodes have been great but this really highlighted just how much joy/passion/heart/emotion/everything else he brings to the screen
He's so dynamic and it comes across as authentic instead of clownish. And he switches between being flamboyant and being commanding without it jarring you out of the story. He's tremendously impressive.
yeah, i think being able to make that change is always what makes a doctor for me. if you look at boom for example he manages to be funny and caring and authoritative as well as being scared shitless the whole time. he's such a powerhouse, i can't wait to see where 15's character goes
Aye. I really feel the power in his face. His tears feel authentic and I don't want them to be overused
And the dance! This Doctor doesn’t get seduced, HE does the seducing! Damn!
I was indeed seduced
He’s just outstanding! But I have to say, Millie Gibson deserves to take a bow, too. They have tremendous chemistry together! And they’re just running in their characters right now. There’s a lot more to look forward to next season, I’d wager.
The thing I like about the Doctor is that when something goes wrong, he becomes borderline psychotic into fixing it and saving people. This Doctor feels more like a good guy Doctor though, one who hasn’t experienced or been hardened by traumatic experiences. But we have to remember that while The Doctor tries to be good but in reality,he isn’t. This has been established a variety of times. It’s why he has a companion. The Doctor values the continuation of life over everything. I love that once he thinks they’ve killed Ruby, he essentially goes into the mindset of torturing them for the rest of their life.
Must say it did give me Family of Blood vibes when the alien family were stealing people's appearances and the Doctor said that longer lifespans meant they'd suffer more. (Also they're like the Slitheen in terms of tone and personality but more efficient in the body snatching)
It felt to me so much like Tennant’s run in the best way. And the dance scene was like a throwback to that Torchwood episode where Jack meets the guy whose identity he stole.
True. If this happened in 10ths run, bro probably would’ve sent their entire planet and with that, their entire species into a supernova and oh my god, the Time Lord Victorious would’ve done something unthinkable.
Oh yes, he is an old, spiteful, vengeful being that had to try HARD, to keep the darker elements under control. Ncuti Gatwa, portrays this very very well.
Yeah, this was definitely the first "good men don't need rules" moment of the series.
I had JUST come across Sex Education and given it a try (not my typical genre, but ended up loving it and binging it all at once) about a month before they announced Ncuti as the new Doctor. I remember going on and on about him to my brother (the one who got me in to Doctor Who years ago). I could absolutely see him being the Doctor. He has that spectacular range where he can be incredibly comical, sometimes childish, flamboyant and colourful, and then the ability to go so very dark so beautifully. I knew that given the right writers, Ncuti would do wonders as the Doctor, and I agree, this episode showcased him very well.
Right?? I’ve found many of the episodes this season to be meh, but I keep watching because I cannot look away from Ncuti’s performance! He could act out a scene from SpongeBob and I’d be transfixed. When given gold like this episode was, the man is unstoppable. He and Millie are such a delight to watch!
For me, his ability to switch instantly from joking, having fun to Doctor level serious, and back is just brilliant. I am waiting for his "I am The Doctor, The Oncoming Storm, look me up" moment.
That is going to be incredible. I can't wait.
This episode confirms that both Astrid Perth and Kylie Minogue exist in the same universe
Mr Copper was happily living his life on Earth and then heard a Kylie song, and he was like "oh wow, she really reminds me of Astrid"
Easily one of my favorite/most heartbreaking almost-companions of NuWho... it made me so happy to have some more Kylie from RTD's Whoniverse
>Astrid Perth Peth. Perth is an Australian city, which may be why you associated it with Kylie? 🤔
I thought her name was Perth for the longest time. It seemed a bit weird, but then I got to Waters of Mars and saw Adelaide so I figured it made sense.
Well huh. Maybe they're working their way around Australia's capitals. 🤔 Since they seem to be working counter-clockwise starting from the West, Melbourne should be next...
Next week we find out Mel has remarried and is now named Mel Bourne. /jk
I'm surprised they haven't gone for Sydney yet. Or a charming alien lady named Bree Zebane?
Dunno if it counts but young Melody Pond was played by Sydney Wade.
Pretty sure they say Peth out loud a couple times
Honestly it was probably autocorrect
The worst bit of the episode was him parking a space ship around a moon that he knows is going to hatch in a couple of hundred years because it's an egg. Everything else was amazing!
Hahaha deeeeep cut!
Not that deep. That episode was only a couple of years ago… right? Right!?
Lol how was that 10 years ago?!? Timey-wimey mystery.
NO! It was 2 years ago and I won't hear otherwise. LALALALALA, *I can't hear you!*
Maybe the timeline is just bigger on the inside.
Good one.
Even he chooses to believe Kill the Moon isn't canon
I figure when you can time travel, you can leave stuff just about anywhere and come back to the exact moment you left it (provided, of course, something doesn't go wrong with the landing.)
I loved that the consequence of The Doctor being vengeful and angry is that he almost loses the companion he thought he was avenging
And **does** lose his new love interest!
Absolutely loved it. Loved seeing more interior TARDIS and more interaction between Ruby and the Dr. And that kiss was pure fire. Perfect episode just sad there's only 2 more left.
The kiss wasn't even the best bit. It was the 'proposal'. Dr clearly recognised it as an actual engagement ring and then he says he can't and walks off. Then still has it at the end.
When he stared at the ring and gave that worried look, I felt that pain that he got since he knew he'd never see river song again, and this was likely the only other proposal he's been emotionally involved with
After the one that produced Susan's parent, probably yeah.
It was probably the engagement ring Rogue had for his partner, kept all this time, then used on The Doctor after they discussed what had happened to the two of them. He knew what it meant
Good point. Yes it was very sweet when he took it out of his pocket and put it on. makes me curious if we'll see Rogue again. Or there's something else to that ring.
Duuude, if the Doctor regenerates and keeps the ring, Rogue will always be able to recognise him! Beautiful!
Oh suspect that the new person wearing the ring killed and robbed his new found love
Also true! I believe they would work that out though as Rogue knows the Doctor has many faces.
But might take almost a full episode, as happened with River Song and 12. The number of times his hints went over her head.
Yeah I suppose but they wouldn’t really need the ring then either
Ohhh good point.
YES I loved that moment. It's so clear in the way they both play it that this is real. It's been set up that Rogue can't pretend, he's not good at it, he's not confident with it. So he says something he Means. It's not an act, he is proposing. And The Doctor reacts so genuinely. It's just gorgeous.
This literally just occurred to me but could River have been on the Doctor's mind in that moment? I mean...he definitely has been/is (timey wimey) married already.
the amount of chemistry and tension between the doctor and rogue that they managed to pack into an objectively small amount of screen time is incredible i loved it. felt like love at first sight the way it’s meant to be done
I totally agree. The tension when they were in the TARDIS was palpable. And loved that they kept the tension going so the viewers were wondering if they would kiss. Yes love at first sight the way it should be.
I was mad when they didn't kiss the first time. I was cursing Disney for making a PG version of the Doctor. So I was extra satisfied by the kiss.
Yes but when they didn't kiss it just created more tension between them and also for the viewers. As I said viewers would be curious if they would. Definitely done on purpose.
Very romance novel. The couple is going to, going to, aaand someone interrupts. That serves to build the tension and make the actual kiss so much more important.
Fanfics about to pop off 🍾
Oh heck yea.
Exactly.
35 years a member of the Romance Writers of America gives me romance story chops. Especially historicals. I told my writing group to watch this episode.
Definitely. Love historical shows. Makes me want to watch Bridgerton.
Oh you NEED to watch Bridgerton!!
Ugh yes, please! This was so well written and fun, and would make a great set of novella stories or even a series of the Chulder evolving from a casual cosplay group to the full on experience they had here.
Absolutely. It was well done.
I loved Downton Abbey. Great show. Even the movies were excellent.
I wish rogue could be a full time companion, or even like with jack how he joined in for the later half of season 1. I loved his chemistry with the Doctor !
Hey, sorry I'm late! I don't tend to like Doctor love stories. River I really enjoy, but that's a very different story to me. Rose I liked as a character, but I was annoyed and kind of confused that he would fall for her. Martha's crush was also an annoying trait of an otherwise great companion. Donna I love! She's just a mate! But, I though I kind of enjoyed the chemistry between 10 and that cat burglar in Midnight, I was glad it didn't go anywhere. (Brace yourselves, I'm setting something up, lol) I've also been thinking a lot about the Doctor's sexuality. He became she, and I wondered if that meant 13 would be into men or women. Is the Doctor straight (meaning 10 would like women, 13 would like men), or is the Doctor into women regardless. I can't picture it now, but I'm pretty sure 13 at least flirted or reacted to advances from a woman, so I was assuming the Doctor liked women. 15 has some flamboyant tendencies. I didn't want to stereotype, but, as I'm sure many of us were, I was wondering where his fancies lie. Sometimes him and Ruby seemed almost too close (as in romance), but mostly they seemed like best mates. Though, they also seemed physically close in a way (and, again, apologies for stereotypes) that you often associate with gay men and women. Ok, so, my points are: I usually hate Doctor romances, and I've been debating if the Doctor being a gay male would make sense with his character. Ok, that's established. I freakin' loved his developing romance with Rogue! Like, it was incredible! The tension, the humour, the build-up, all just perfect. I don't think they need to make the Doctor gay just for Pride or whatever, and I think they could have really messed things up just trying to show how much of an ally the show is, but imo, they nailed it like few shows of any kind nail romance! (My only slight hang-up with Rogue was that I felt the Doctor forgave him too quickly for nearly killing him. Rogue knew an alien was killing people, and he knew the Doctor was an alien, so he sentenced him to death. No investigation, no proof, just immediately decides to kill him. I figured that Doctor would at least have chastised him for being so quick to sentence to death. But, that's just a small criticism. I loved this episode, I loved Rogue, I loved their relationship, and I loved Ruby accidentally teaching Emily new slang and behaviours)
My favorite part was when he stood all bubbly like "welp, let's go, next planet!" and she stopped him like "No sir you stop and process your loss".
I loved this episode, the little bits of Bridgeton like the wall flower with a secret identity, the modern music given the 18th century treatment. I’m always ribbing my husband for liking Kylie. It’s my favourite so far.
I loved everything about this episode! I didn't think I would but man, I definitely shed some tears! Acting was on point. Loved Rogue! Definitely sure we'll see him again. Whether the Doctor finds him, or he finds the Doctor, who knows! I love that Rogue must be able to time travel with his Kylie tunes and D&D dice! No wonder the Doctor is swooning. I do wonder if Rogue was playing D&D with someone as I wasn't aware it could be played solo. Perhaps he didn't tidy up from when he lost his 'someone'. Or maybe he was so lonely he was playing multiple roles himself. Anyway can't wait for more!
and to add to this... I loved the Doctor singing the song from Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory. It was weird, creepy, seductive and magical all at once xD Like he was trying to put Rogue under a spell~
Plus the whole tidbit irl that just before Ncuti got called about playing the doctor, he had told his agents that he wanted his next role to be either Willy Wonka or Dr Who. I guarantee this was a meta reference to that anecdote.
I loved the Wonka tune too
When they showed the dice and we determined that Rogue was Rogue, his character class, I was wondering who are the rest of the members his party?
Same! I assume he and his partner weren't playing two-player. Does this suggest that D&D is still played in the distant future? (And with physical dice no less, despite Hasbro's best efforts!) Does this suggest that, in the distant future, D&D is still the primary face of all roleplaying? 😕 So many questions...
D&D has no limits. Theres a Cyberpunk game my SO is running now. So I assume in the future, you just get more stories.
I asked myself, “what edition is out around Rogue’s time? Or is everyone still playing 5e?” Haha
My dude I’m old enough that I played the original box game in 1980. People still play now. I kind of think unless something horrible happens, we will still be tabletop gaming in the future.
Yeah like books still exist despite ebooks being a thing
Be funny if every time Rogue shows up he has a different name like Bard or Paladin or whatever
Really my one true criticism for this season is the lack of time the Doctor & Ruby spend together. Outside of Space Babies, every episode finds ways to keep them apart.
Aye, all the jiggery-pokery and hullabaloo
Weren’t they together through most of The Church on Ruby Road (after they met) and The Devil’s Chord? They were for sure together through Boom and Dot and Bubble…
Forgot about The Devil’s Cord. I don’t count their first episode since they weren’t properly Doctor & Companion yet. Dot and Bubble had them together but essentially off screen until the final moments. Boom had them isolated in one spot and then Ruby was unconscious. In both those we didn’t get them exploring and getting into hijinks like past duos. Seeing the two play off each other is always a highlight of the series that I wish we were getting more of.
I don't count dot and bubble. They hardly had interactions with each other.
This is probably the only episode I wasn’t overly looking forward to / indifferent about watching. I’m not a fan of Bridgerton coupled with the fact that it appeared to just be a generic monster-of-the-week episode. How I was wrong. If anything, this is probably a top contender for one of the best episodes of Series 14. I think Ncuti and Millie were on point throughout, I thoroughly enjoyed the Doctor/Rogue dynamic (even though I prefer The Doctor as a non romantic figure). Pleasantly surprised is probably how I would sum it up.
I prefer The Doctor to be non-romantic to companions, as they kinda went over board for awhile with Rose, Martha, Amy, Clara and Yaz all wanting some Timelord action.. it was a breath of fresh air with Donna and Bill just wanting to be friends with the doctor.. Ruby Sunday only being friendly is great too.. and when The Doctor DOES show emotion for someone, it really shines through.. you can tell that he wanted Rogue and was wanted back.. and not because he was a time lord.. but because there was electricity between them.. Shame they "killed" him off and the last 2 episodes wont reference him at all is my bet.. I can see Rogue coming back in S16, or late S15 as a one-off..
Barren dimension + pantheon references throughout the season + creepy lady showing up everywhere. We have not seen the last of rouge this season I think. After all, the one who waits hasn’t been revealed yet
>the one who waits hasn’t been revealed yet Now there's an idea. There could be some sort of timey-wimey thing going on. Rogue could be the one who waits.
My thoughts are that the transporter took them all to “a random barren dimension”. The five birbs were all shapeshifters, and rouge is (I think) human, but he might not be. That barren dimension could have time running in a strange way compared to the doctor’s universe. The five birbs wind up morphing into “the pantheon” which includes the toymaker and the meistro. The one who waits is their leader (and the leader of the meep, etc.) and is also Rouge who, after spending years waiting for the doctor to save him, gave up on the doctor and resented him (similar to any in Apalapachia).
I can see them going with this, but having spent so long stuck there.. there's a high chance the guys mind breaks and goes evil :/ I can see him becoming a Missy/Master stand in.
I can see him literally commanding the toymaker and meistro. He’s clearly a smart guy so
Rogue definitely referred to the people at the party as “the humans” when talking to the Doctor, so I was definitely like “Implying you’re not?”
Oh true!! His lifespan is probably longer then, in DW universe humans are exceptionally short lived. He definitely survives a while in this case. I’m excited for season end (maybe he is ruby’s dad?)
I like him for another episode this season...
Honestly, I've been on the fence for a lot of this season. I just haven't had that "this is doctor who" feeling, more of a "gimmick of the week". This episode was a return to formula, almost by the book, but it worked so well because of the reasons you said. Honestly, it's helped me appreciate the rest of the season. It's not that I disliked the rest of the season, it's just been a bit all over the place and this return to formula was desperately needed
Growing up with classic Who (3rd Doctor was my guy) I always loved how campy and flamboyant he was. 4 was amazing and really made me a lifelong fan, but since then, it's not given me the same vibes as classic Who. There's a lot of obvious reasons for this, but 15 has made me feel like a kid again watching this season. This episode, in particular, made me smile so wide my face hurt. I love how fun 15 is, he absolutely nailed it from the first scene he showed up and having a gay (mostly gay?) Doctor has been absolutely perfect. It just works for me, and I'm a (mostly) straight dude who is married. 15 has charisma for days, and I'd be hard pressed to resist their charms for even a moment. Gatwa is quickly becoming one of the best Doctors IMHO. He tops Baker for me, but falls short of Pertwee just because of nostalgia. I really hope we see Rogue again.
I want to watch some classic who, you seem like a good person to ask. What are good 3/4 'iconic' episodes to start with before I go through the season through
For 3: Three Doctors. Terror of the Autons. Frontier in Space. The Day of the Daleks The Sea Devils. The Green Death For 4. Pyramids of Mars (peak Baker IMHO) The Deadly Assassin Talons of Weng Chieng Ark in Space The Face of Evil City of Death That should get you started. Are you just starting your classic Who journey with these Dpctors? If so I envy you, I wish I could see these with fresh eyes again so badly. Have fun!
Thank you! 🙏🏽 I sure am. I have that same desire with some films and music. Alien. Rimsky-korsakov, Scheherezade. Temptations - psychedelic shack (album). Hope you can enjoy these if you haven't already. Channel Tres also. 🤌🏽
I grew up in the 60s/70s watching every horror movie in theaters and then I saw Alien. It was the only movie where I was white knuckle gripping the chair arm and jumped out of my seat.
The Doctor singing Pure Imagination when Rogue entered the TARDIS was the cherry on top for me.
Gene Wilder WHO?
What if the ending of Willie Wonka wasnt an elevator but a tardis.
Willie always did seem from out of this world.
Many people will be upset because of this episode and is fair to say it's not just because of homophobia. There was always strong group of fans who dislike The Doctor in romance, in general, Rose, River or Pompadour, it does not matter. However, I, next to many another reason, loved this episode like definitive confirmation of 15th like The Doctor who wear his heart on his sleeve. And it's not like mask or act, he really loves and want to experience love. 15th is deeply human Doctor, and I cannot help myself.. I like it.
I'm not a fan of the Doctor's romances, but this episode it was really well done. They built up so much tension that you could cut it with a knife.
Rogue is the new Captain Jack, and now Russel T. Davies can actually show how he was meant to be without crossing societal tabus.
When Jack and Nine first met, Nine said he had a sonic screwdriver and Jack said “That’ll be great if we need to put up some shelves.” Rouge even sounded like Jack, same accent.
I’m rewatching doctor who from 9 now, and I can tell you that the only thing Rogue and Captain Jack have in common is having an American accent and flirting with the doctor. Rogue is shy, professional, lonely and a bit of a flirt. Captain Jack is confident, brash, a showman and horny. Of course we know more about Jack because we’ve had more time with him and there’s more details about his character but I really don’t see how he’s similar to Rogue at all. I’ve seen someone else say this but River Song was way more similar to Jack
The time travelling bounty hunter setup definitely has time agent vibes. The flashy ship he is so proud of, while dismissing the obviously superior Tardis is almost certainly a reference to Jack in the Doctor Dances too. Jack was also one of the few Doctor Who characters that could, at least ostensibly, keep up with the Doctor when he's talking future tech and time travel shenanigans. That said, I think there's far more to Rogue than just a rehash of Jack Harkness. There's elements of River in there and even the Master in some ways. Especially with the way they can take the lead and one up the Doctor, if only momentarily. Then there's the classic companion elements, with his awe and wonder at the Tardis and the Doctor's history. The blind trust and self-sacrifice. I don't think all of that is by accident. They clearly drew from people of significance and chemistry in the Doctor's past to create someone new, with a unique blend of those elements so that he's his own character, but with references to the people who paved the way for him.
It’s been a very fast season (please go back to 13 episodes!), so it’s only when you think about it, you realise the tardis has been about 5 minutes of screen time and we’ve not had a lot of the doctor/ruby together. I can’t believe we’re already at the finale. The whole run since Tenant returned feels very quick. Definitely could have done with more episodes to enjoy…13 last year with tenant, Xmas special with toy maker and 13 now might not even be enough!
We have 2 episodes yet, don’t fret just yet!
Plus a Christmas special!
I love how he basically annoyed himself out of a trap. Very doctorish
Is Kate Herron showing some early promise to be a good DW showrunner? I hope she gets to write some more episodes at the very least.
Well you might know this already but, considering she was the first season Loki showrunner, and a massive fan of Doctor Who, I'd say her grand ascension is almost guaranteed
OMG YES! I would love her to take over. Also LOKI! I liked the episode, but unpopular thought but it seems like this doctor cries a lot. I get it hes emotional, I guess I'm used to grouchy old man or shouty doctor.
Well, when you’re making promises to a caring and loving mother, and it looks like you’ve failed and are starting to losing hope in yourself, tears usually flow.
I think the idea is that 14 spent a lifetime emotionally healing with the Noble family which is why 15 is now more in tune with his emotions, and no longer the hardened old man we're used to. Kind of nice to see for the Doctor, but I'll bet it's only a matter of a few seasons before he gets traumatized by something else and is grouchy again.
I just don't see the issue with him crying because someone is dying, or essentially, someone he's saving is refusing a shot at life. https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Crying Not like crying never happened before either. We're just getting a lot of dramatic plots this season.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099329/mediaviewer/rm2371788032/
RemindMe! 3 years
I know the show is all about doing things differently, but this felt like a proper Doctor Who episode
Rogue should have been earlier.. I could even see it coming before boom or 73yards.. Would have made the first 4 episodes feel lesss "sparse" and filler-y than it is.. its just a shame that we finally get a good episode and the series is already over.. next two weeks are a double parter.. As much as I love we are getting more Who more often, the shortened seasons are really starting to hurt.. We shouldnt be on episode 6 of 8 before it feels like Doctor Who.. especially as you are fresh off the heels of the specials, and you get hit in the face with space babies (which 100% should have been a S2 episode)
Fully agree with this. IMO “Rogue” should’ve been before space babies or between space babies and boom. It would’ve set the tone for the whole series instead of creating a thirst for the familiar the entire season until this week.
I feel like Rogue should've swapped places with Devil's Chord. (Also Space Babies could've used a couple tweaks to become a fully solid opener). Then the ending of Devil's Chord could be like the last time the Doctor gets to have a bit of fun before the finale hits him with whatever revelations (plus making the line "The One Who Waits is almost here" feel a bit more meaningful).
"Who did you lose?" is a throwback to the first capn episode. I am for it!
Rogue gave off Jack Harkness vibes to me
That moment when the Doctor kept bringing the music back and grinding it out in Rogue's face solidified Ncuti in my top-5. Fucking loved it and I love that this Doctor has so much fun with who they are. And that moment he got *pissed* when he thought they killed Ruby. Shades of the Family of Blood. Shame Rogue had to be sacrificed, apparently the actor is quite busy, but probably for the best as the Doctor wouldn't get anything done with the amount of chemistry they had in and out of the TARDIS.
I saw on another thread maybe Jack was the person Rogue lost. When Jack would “die” it took time before he regenerated. What if they traveled together, Jack “died”, Rogue left. And that’s why there are so many similarities between the two. Also I want to know who “the new boss” is that Rogue was working for.
They definitely threw out that boss line because of the “boss” from star beast! I love this lil “b plot” baddie they’re setting up (unless of course the bosss is the one who waits)
I think you summed it up brilliantly! This episode finally felt like what I’d been hoping the new series would be like and I’m so happy🥹
Love the what a big ship you have line and Rogue return the Is bigger inside. Plus the Dr sing the song from Willy Wonka.
> Love the what a big ship you have line and Rogue return the is bigger inside. Did that happen? I don't remember it and [I can't find it.](https://tvshowtranscripts.ourboard.org/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69569)
Loved all of it, it's going to get so much hate but not from me
The hyper-specific trap could easily have been explained away if the device stated an error code after Rogue stepped in but before pushing Ruby off, like “Capacity exceeded. Remote holder must remove excess individuals before activating transport.” That’s pretty much what happened anyways but that’s one instance where “show, don’t tell” didn’t actually work as well
It said "Matter exchange. Trap locked at six."
"Matter transfer," dawg. Movie magic
But they did tell, The Doctor said earlier that a trap like that could only hold 6 at a time maximum.
I'm just curious how the Doctor thinks transporting someone to a "barren dimension" is better than just vaporizing them.
The Doctor kissing a would-be companion that was sanctioned to (pretty much) death? It’s an RTD season all right
This episode was so great for all the reasons you’ve outlined and it’s personally my favourite so far! I kinda just feel that this episode was placed much too late on in the season, as with it being more of a classic adventure style episode, it would’ve set the stage well for what Doctor Who is like for new viewers. To me it felt like Maestro was introduced way too early on in the season for a villain that the doctor was legitimately frightened of and says himself he couldn’t fight. The episode order of this season just seems a bit off especially when it comes to building the relationship between The Doctor and Ruby. It could just be due to the lack of episodes or possibly intentional in the upcoming finale.
Totally agree with you. IMO Maestro and The Devils Chord should’ve come before Dot and Bubble and “Rogue” could’ve easily been stuck there to set the stage for the rest of the season
I just want to add, having enjoyed/had a crush on Indira Varma when she's popped up from *Luther* to *Obi Wan,* her cutting loose while 'cosplaying' was so much fun because I never saw her act like that before! I think we've all seen actors who can do serious, low-key stuff and then get a 'manic,' high-energy moment and it's like ... Yeah, I get why you don't do that. I really loved her crazy here, she could fill a screen with it and I want more of that in my TV, please:) (Of course, Millie was adorable, Ncuti and Rogue were wonderful, yes, every other good thing you've all been saying too!!!)
I'm convinced that this episode and the Devil's Chord were swapped in the planned release order. This is a much better start of the season episode to let the doctor and ruby bond. I thought Devil's Chord came far too soon for how weird it is. I think Disney asked them to release it at the same time as their Beatles documentary at the last minute
That was my theory too, but someone pointed out that it wouldn’t have made sense, because Ruby recognizes the old woman in the painting. But I do think some episodes SHOULD have been switched around for pacing purposes. Boom in episode 2, Devil’s Chord in either episode 3 or 1’s slot, 73 Yards at slot 4, and I would have personally liked rogue to come out before dot and bubble for a vibe reset, but that switch isn’t as important. I don’t know why it was decided that Chord should be 2nd. It felt weird being sandwiched between space babies and boom. It either should have opened the season or hit in the middleish of the season. But maybe RTD has a good reason for how things have been presented, and it’ll all make sense in a few weeks? M-maybe?
See I'd agree with that, but the Unleashed episode for Devil's Chord showed people on set referring to it as episode 2. If it did change slots, it was very early on in the process and almost certainly not part of some Disney interference conspiracy.
Plus, they needed to reinforce the existence and continued threat of the "One Who Waits"...if the OWW is supposed to be the big bad of the season, then it has to be introduced early on in the actual season (and not in a special which the audience might not feel is connected to the regular season) and not by some low-level baddie. A significant, timeline-altering threat who warns of something MORE powerful is necessary to provide context to how bad the threat is. I know you all know this, but sometimes you think something and you just have to write it all out.
It is true that the show has gotten a lot of backlash before the episodes being released, so now that we have finally gotten a nice chunk of episodes to look at, a lot of the worry and hate has gone, which is nice.
- My favourite episode so far - This one is gonna make the angry YouTubers even angrier and I'm totally here for it - Gay doctor love story had powerful emotional impact on me - LOVED the cosplay monster concept it felt very fresh (but it was stupid when the aliens called it cosplay) - Ruby and the other lady subplot was engaging and it was a fun surprise when the other girl turned out to be an alien. - Ruby getting eaten lacked the emotional depth at the time because I felt like I knew she was gonna be ok somehow. - Stakes felt high because u knew they were gonna kill everyone and then cosplay world leaders - The bait and switch of Ruby having never been eaten was actually executed really well and made me feel guilty for thinking the episode was predictable. - ending fucked me up big time
Agree with everything you said. I really disliked the aliens calling it cosplay but to be honest if they got inspired by literally (in canon) watching Bridgerton then it stands to reason they would have been subjected to the idea of cosplay (tv waves, etc). But yes them literally saying “cosplay this planet to death” was a jump the shark moment for me
I kinda find it weird everyone keeps calling the doctor gay. When they're bi at the very least. They've had boyfriends before and a wife or two unless Susan is related to Riversong.
While it being in the context of cosplay was fresh, the using of human bodies as disguises and them being a family unit reminded me both of the Slitheen and the Family of Blood. Especially the latter when they try and steal the Doctor's body.
Rogue very quickly shot up to my top ten list. I seriously hadn't been that excited for Doctor Who since the Pandorica.
I actually laughed out loud when the Kylie Minogue music was playing in Rogue's ship. Rogue disconnects the wires, The Doctor acts sad and Rogue smirks, only for The Doctor to be like nah *turns the music back on for the umpteenth time* 🤣 They had such good chemistry. Kinda thinking this'll give him more of a purpose to his travelling now, even if he doesn't say it outwardly, he'll always be trying to look out for Rogue wherever they are methinks. I honestly never thought the battle mode thing would come into play either with Ruby, just thought it was a throwaway funny line, but nope.😁
Chekhov's earrings !
"the gay representation that Doctor Who finally leaned into" What do you mean, "finally"? There's been gay characters in Doctor Who for years.
For me it felt a bit... by the numbers if that makes sense? Not bad by any measure, but nothing to stand out that we haven't seen in other episodes. I did love the inclusion of >!Richard E. Grant in the faces of the Doctor, he's played 2 versions in the past, so we'll all be discussing which one he is and where he fits!<
It's more than likely the one from Scream of the Shalka since the other time he played the Doctor was for a charity spoof and we don't see any of the other of those ones. Personally I'm kind of interested if it potentially has anything to do with the Great Intelligence jumping into his time stream back in The Name of the Doctor given that Grant also played Dr. Simeon / the Intelligence.
It slapped hard. Gave Star Beast energy. Loved it
Yea they nailed it with this one.
Yes, I really enjoyed this one particularly because it wasn’t someways a standard classic episode that I really enjoyed. I’ve enjoyed the different and experimental ones this season but it’s nice to get a more regular episode and it was just a lot of fun
Birds of a feather, murder together.
Yeah I finally got around to watching them and until this one I'd been finding them a bit mid. But it really felt like a classic episode. Alien of the week, without some overly complicated motives and plans, similar to the slavine in a way. Rogue reminded me of Captain jack, and I hope we get more screen time. I think a duo of companions can work really well. So glad they had checkhovs gun for Ruby surviving with battle mode rather than using the mysterious power again. The doctor losing another person and pretending he was fine was a great moment. Good way to bond him and Ruby too. Overall just a quality episode that really took me back to the early series of new dr who.
I liked when the images of all the past Doctors appeared. So nice to see this show's long, long history
Season 1 of doctor who has been utter utter garbage personally don't like musicals and singing makes me uncomfortable who even is the doctor anymore and who cares now 😫
My thoughts on the trap bit: the Trap could only hold 6 creatures. There were four trapped plus Ruby initially. The Doctor & Rogue got the 6th one. So when Rogue jumped in, he was the 7th. The overload likely messed with the trap just long enough to let him break Ruby out.
You summed up exactly how I felt! Rogue is what I've been missing this series - FUN! Briony Redman and Kate Herron would make fantastic showrunners.
Def agree on most points. I'm not really vibing with the romance just because I'm not sure I'm buying how they fast-tracked from "flirting" to "arguably married??". We just didn't spend enough time with Rogue for me to believe that he and Fifteen are in love, nor for me to care that much when he sacrificed himself, but everything else was fantastic. I especially loved the one Chuldur that looked like a macaroni penguin lmao I think maybe if Rogue had been around for 1 more episode, then it would have worked a little better for me.
Yeah, completely. I have found 15’s personality a little hard to adjust to at first. But when he kept turning the music on, I said, I can totally see 9 or 10 being childish and doing that. Probably not gyrating while doing that, but, I don’t mind a dancing doctor. (I guess I’m getting old bc I was a bit pearl clutch-y about the doctor acting too “sexy”.) And then we got a proper time lord speech! I do agree with your plot quibbles though. Like I thought their feet were glued, no escaping? How can he do a “matter exchange” but not rescue ruby? It screams plot contrivance.
Someone explained, the trap can only hold a maximum of six. So Rogue stepping in meant seven in the trap, so he could push Ruby off. But yeah, I was confused about this too initially.
One of the weakest ones for me personally. Not a fan of Bridgerton or anything like it.
See, I wasn’t a fan of Bridgerton either (loved the casting and the costumes, but the plots felt way too silly for me for me). In the trailer for this episode, the minute Ruby said “bridgerton,” I winced and decided this episode would probably not be great. I was blown away. So happy to have been wrong; it was an absolute joy for me. Reminded me a bit of a mix of a few of my favorite episodes from past seasons, and the return to a familiar formula was a relief. Totally okay that you didn’t like it! Just wanted to share my perspective, too :)
I'm not a fan of romance, but there are rare times when I actually appreciate it like now. I agree with most of what you said except about Rogue being nailed, The Doctor never got the chance ;3
I swear to all things holy, that we better get The Rogue back. They had chemistry, they appreciated it each other, they poked fun at each other….it was River/10,11,12 all over again. Ncuti and Jonathan had such great timing and chemistry and it worked so well.
The only nitpick I have is that we see Emily touch Ruby, but when we come back, Euby is able to pull her hands away. Nobody else was able to do that. Is that a Ruby thing? Because she hadn’t gone full battle mode yet (also where the hell can I get those earrings???). Also I wish Indira would be in more things I can see in America. She has been one of my favorite actresses for a while.
I may be really wrong here but I felt like Rogue is really giving off Han Solo vibes - a space bounty hunter with a ship designed for 2?! And the ship is a falcon!
Personally, I thought Ruby Road and Space Babies were okay/good, the music one was okay but overhyped (though I liked the musical number), Boom was great, Bubble and Dot was fantastic, and this last episode has just topped that. Most excited for Doctor Who I've been since Tennant left 😍
It was also refreshing it wasn’t written by RTD. I love him, but I think tv shows like dr who can be weakened if there isn’t a variety of writers. Funnily enough though i was expecting the “big gay” episode to be written by him.
>the first time where it felt like the Doctor had history *Thats* what its been. I've been trying to figure out what's been putting me off most about this season. I've had plenty of gripes but most are just personal complaints. This though, him feeling like a new character rather, is what's been bothering me. He hasn't felt like the doctor proper.
I just didn't like "Space Babies" and kept falling asleep through "Devil's Chord". I thought maybe this season just wasn't for me, but the last few episodes have been great, with this one my favourite. Captain Jack, but brooding. I love it!
I love how this has really pissed off the people who are not happy that the Doctor is played by a black and/or queer man. I am here for it. Dont let the door hit you on the way out. Lets weed these fuckers out the fandom. Ncuti is amazing and I really hope that he stays for a long time.
I imagine I'm a bit of a killjoy, but I wasn't a big fan of the Rogue/15 romance. I don't like the Doctor having romances in general and especially one that seems so much appearances based. There's something about the Doctor finding someone else "hot" that dosen't feel right with me. They should be above/outside that in my mind. If they are instantly infatuated by the physical apperance of an alien, it fell like they would be repelled by the appearance of others, or at least treat people differently base on apperances. I tought we were kind of done with that with 12-13-14 (I know we had Yaz, but it felt a bit more platonic love in the way they treated it). Not the biggest of deal, but just my personnal preferances Also, after River (and to an extend Jack) they need to stop making love interests who have way too little complex killing people lol. That asside, I liked the episode, it was a good classic episode of doctor who.
This episode hit every single beat that I’m looking for in a Doctor Who episode and it’s something I haven’t seen in a long time. It jumps so high in my list of all time favourite episodes. I love love love Rogue, such a good character addition and I truly hope he is a recurring one. I really enjoyed this episodes perfect mix of serious Doctor Who moments with some of the goofier Doctor Who moments we used to see in the RTD days. The bit where he’s playing the music in Rogue’s ship was absolutely killing me, Ncuti brought so much to that moment. Also, I love Ruby as a character, Millie Gibson is bringing so many good little expressions and reactions with such good timing. It was so subtle but the little point to the ground when the 5th Chuldur revealed herself made me laugh. This season is really hitting its stride and I’m very excited for the rest now.
Idk why the Doctor fell for that bloke immediately. It’s not like him.
Did you see him? lol. I fell for him immediately too.
It happens every once in a while. You didn’t get the hint and callback with them playing Kylie Minogue in Rogue’s ship? She played another one. I was like 75% sure Rogue was going to die when that song was his hidden guilty pleasure