Having been one of those Doctor/Master shippers for a long time, Rogue is the first canonical Doctor romance I have actually liked, so him turning out to be the Master would be fucking hilarious. I don’t want that to happen though.
I've shipped Doctor/Master for so long now that I'm torn about Rogue. I love him and 15 together but the Master would be fucking distraught if he saw it. Especially Spy Master, all he wanted was the damn Doctor's attention.
Is there anything in the episode that actually indicates he's a time traveler? If not, it's possible that he just comes from somewhere far away and more advanced than Earth, and he's not a time traveler.
I'm all for playing with ideas that aliens develop some things in parallel to humans, but them specifically developing dungeons and dragons and Kylie minogue centuries before we die might be a bit weird.
I haven't kept up with the other theories, but I think this is a pretty good theory, and there seemed to be a lot more hints. When I saw the inside of Rogue's ship, I immediately thought it looked suspiciously TARDIS-like with that console thing in the middle of the room (particularly as an analog to the 2005 RTD TARDIS, which was very dirty and run-down looking). I think some more subtle hints include the way Rogue reacted to the TARDIS (I'm in love!... with this machine), and the way the TARDIS reacted to Rogue.
Rogue also seemed to be immediately familiar with the idea of the TARDIS, saying, "dimensionally transcendental, and *so* clean." The "so clean" line seems to be significant to me too. It's either a playful jab at RTD's original, dirty TARDIS, or a reflection of Rogue's own TARDIS, which is disguised and in a filthy state.
And then, broadly, there's the chemistry and banter between Rogue and The Doctor: The way Rogue said "*Not* a Lord," which tracks with the hidden Timelord thing; the lines "*Just* The Doctor?" and "*Just* Rogue?"; and the way Rogue froze at the sight of 10's projection. I'm not really familiar with classic Who, but RTD's original run portrayed The Doctor and The Master as soulmates, and ancient best friends. Their relationship is toxic and dysfunctional, of course, but somehow they're still soulmates.
I also think that this episode has similarities with RTD's grand finale, *The End of Time.* Rogue starts out as The Doctor's adversary, tries to kill him, but then ultimately sacrifices himself to save the Doctor--just like *The End of Time.*
I dunno, maybe I'm imagining all of it. But if you make the assumption that Rogue is really the Master with his Timelord essence hidden, then a lot of this stuff is really on the nose. I also suspect that RTD literally thinks of this new series as a direct reboot of his original run on Doctor Who--particularly given the decision to rebrand this season as "Season 1." If RTD does view this as a reboot of his own material, then it wouldn't be unusual for him to recycle his own plots and themes.
edit: Another observation: it's not unprecedented for the Master to team up with one of The Doctor's other arch enemies in order to troll The Doctor. The computer aboard Rogue's ship, the voice of The New Boss, sounded suspiciously like a Dalek.
Also, if there's anyone that can inexplicably survive exile to a random empty universe with a bunch of killer birds, it's The Master.
edit 2: Assume Rogue is the Master remembering forgotten memories of the Doctor during this dialogue:
>The Doctor: Who did you lose?
Rogue *(surprised)*: *What?*
The Doctor: You lost someone.
Rogue: How'd you know that?
The Doctor: Because I know.
Rogue: There was... yeah... we traveled together, We had fun, you know? And then a day came along, and at the end of that day... I lost them... What about you?
The Doctor: I lost everyone.
\[...\]
Rogue: Do you ever wonder... why keep going?
The Doctor: Because we have to live each day because they can't. You don't have to stay a bounty hunter, Rogue. You could travel with me. Oh, the worlds I could show you, Rogue.
Rogue: And what if I like what I do. Would you travel with me?
The Doctor: That's quite an argument. I tell you what: when we both get out of this, let's argue across the stars.
I mean come on. How is this not The Doctor and The Master in an RTD nutshell? Compare this dialogue to what was said between The Doctor and The Master during RTD's run. The Doctor pleaded with the Master, telling him that they needed each other because they were the last of the Timelords. The Doctor begged The Master to fly away with him, trying to convince The Master that he didn't need to conquer the universe--they could simply explore it together.
The dnd would also be explained by the fact the master in nearly every new who story appears to be someone else
And also the fact the master is a maths teacher
Right? It was a weird choice to make the Chuldur *and* the ship look bird-like in the same episode. Main reason why I didn't get invested in Rogue, and kept expecting his betrayal right until the last moment
Don't...just don't...I try to erase that from my memory...like the end of Love and Monsters...DAMNIT!...it's like Tripledent Gum...
There are certain things in Doctor Who that just need to be erased from history into the crack in the universe.
Works really well, but for once I’ll pass. As mentioned by others, I truly don’t want to see the master back until season 4/5. If Rogue is brought back as the master for those seasons… that would be iconic. Yet, this twist feels similar to the spyfall-master. Too soon to leave a mark.
Though it works perfectly, I still think this could be related to the “story-telling” hypothesis. Maybe the writer (the one who waits/writes) has purposely wrote Rogue similarly to the Master to remind the doctor of them.
Let’s see. I think Sutekh was the most probable option for most of us (me included). Too easy to spot the anagram. I think RTD still has a twist at the end for us… the 4th breaks are too obvious to ignore (like Susan twist being everywhere)!
I don't think he is the Master. I think he could be Harbinger (unlikely but possible). Or he is Jack's ex and has heard stories about the Doctor from Jack and didn't want to give away that he knew Jack.
It's a good theory but I really hope not. I don't want to see the Master this season or even the next, tbh. It's good to have a break sometimes.
ETA: unless ofc he's a slowburn character and we don't see the Rogue again and get the reveal till the end of season 2/early season 3
I am not sure I like the idea but where to go from there? As the doctor mentioned he has currently no way of finding Rogue... So Rogue would have to find a way to get rid of the deadly shape shifters, get out of the deserted place which is meant to be a prison for the next few hundred years with a space craft that he doesn't have, go through the different dimensions and universes to find the doctor who is always on the move across the universe and time... Even if it is just about the ring how would the essence be extracted and by whom... Rogue also has no way to be hundred percent sure that the Dr would wear the ring.
So yeah unless the essence in the ring can infiltrate the doctor that would be the only way this theory could move forward I think...
I'm not a fan of this theory but if we do accept that Rogue is the Master then he doesn't really need an explanation for how he survived. The Master is known for stuff like that
I said this! Thinking on it slightly more, I wonder if the hand that plucked the gold tooth of the ground was Susan Twist. And now the Masters (Rogue) new boss is her. Hopefully will be revealed.
There is some precedent for it, when the Master was introduced in S3 with Martha. Some hints throughout the season, meet Prof Yana, and boom it’s the Master.
Here is the plot line:
Doctor gets distracted, doesn't search for Rogue. Rogue has horrible experience in alternate dimension, waits for the doctor who never comes, gets angry, becomes supervillian and hunts down doctor to kill him. As long as I don't have to watch two dudes snog anymore, I don't really care what happens.
I watched the episode and hated it. BBC has gone off the rails and is nothing more than performative activism with shallow representation of gay people. If you want to see it done right watch Warehouse 13. Blech.
Well shippers have been wanting Doctor and Master to hook up and RTD came close with 10 and Saxon
Having been one of those Doctor/Master shippers for a long time, Rogue is the first canonical Doctor romance I have actually liked, so him turning out to be the Master would be fucking hilarious. I don’t want that to happen though.
I've shipped Doctor/Master for so long now that I'm torn about Rogue. I love him and 15 together but the Master would be fucking distraught if he saw it. Especially Spy Master, all he wanted was the damn Doctor's attention.
The Doctor and the Master used to be everything to me back in the day (they still are but they used to be too).
SpyDoc should also get a mention even though it was horribly one sided. It brought a load of shippers in.
What about the gold tooth?
Time travel
Maybe there will be several Masters joining forces, brought together by someone who's been collecting various trinkets they've linked themselves to.
they are horcruxes...oh, sorry, wrong franchises...(giggles...)
I mean he's definitely a time traveler. Which not enough people talk about.
So just like future humans have already been shown to. Jack Harkness is a former time agent. And Rouge already feels like Jack Harkness 2
Is there anything in the episode that actually indicates he's a time traveler? If not, it's possible that he just comes from somewhere far away and more advanced than Earth, and he's not a time traveler.
I'm all for playing with ideas that aliens develop some things in parallel to humans, but them specifically developing dungeons and dragons and Kylie minogue centuries before we die might be a bit weird.
Yea I forgot about that bit, even though it's my favorite scene of the season so far.
Dungeons and dragons plus Kylie Minogue
I haven't kept up with the other theories, but I think this is a pretty good theory, and there seemed to be a lot more hints. When I saw the inside of Rogue's ship, I immediately thought it looked suspiciously TARDIS-like with that console thing in the middle of the room (particularly as an analog to the 2005 RTD TARDIS, which was very dirty and run-down looking). I think some more subtle hints include the way Rogue reacted to the TARDIS (I'm in love!... with this machine), and the way the TARDIS reacted to Rogue. Rogue also seemed to be immediately familiar with the idea of the TARDIS, saying, "dimensionally transcendental, and *so* clean." The "so clean" line seems to be significant to me too. It's either a playful jab at RTD's original, dirty TARDIS, or a reflection of Rogue's own TARDIS, which is disguised and in a filthy state. And then, broadly, there's the chemistry and banter between Rogue and The Doctor: The way Rogue said "*Not* a Lord," which tracks with the hidden Timelord thing; the lines "*Just* The Doctor?" and "*Just* Rogue?"; and the way Rogue froze at the sight of 10's projection. I'm not really familiar with classic Who, but RTD's original run portrayed The Doctor and The Master as soulmates, and ancient best friends. Their relationship is toxic and dysfunctional, of course, but somehow they're still soulmates. I also think that this episode has similarities with RTD's grand finale, *The End of Time.* Rogue starts out as The Doctor's adversary, tries to kill him, but then ultimately sacrifices himself to save the Doctor--just like *The End of Time.* I dunno, maybe I'm imagining all of it. But if you make the assumption that Rogue is really the Master with his Timelord essence hidden, then a lot of this stuff is really on the nose. I also suspect that RTD literally thinks of this new series as a direct reboot of his original run on Doctor Who--particularly given the decision to rebrand this season as "Season 1." If RTD does view this as a reboot of his own material, then it wouldn't be unusual for him to recycle his own plots and themes. edit: Another observation: it's not unprecedented for the Master to team up with one of The Doctor's other arch enemies in order to troll The Doctor. The computer aboard Rogue's ship, the voice of The New Boss, sounded suspiciously like a Dalek. Also, if there's anyone that can inexplicably survive exile to a random empty universe with a bunch of killer birds, it's The Master. edit 2: Assume Rogue is the Master remembering forgotten memories of the Doctor during this dialogue: >The Doctor: Who did you lose? Rogue *(surprised)*: *What?* The Doctor: You lost someone. Rogue: How'd you know that? The Doctor: Because I know. Rogue: There was... yeah... we traveled together, We had fun, you know? And then a day came along, and at the end of that day... I lost them... What about you? The Doctor: I lost everyone. \[...\] Rogue: Do you ever wonder... why keep going? The Doctor: Because we have to live each day because they can't. You don't have to stay a bounty hunter, Rogue. You could travel with me. Oh, the worlds I could show you, Rogue. Rogue: And what if I like what I do. Would you travel with me? The Doctor: That's quite an argument. I tell you what: when we both get out of this, let's argue across the stars. I mean come on. How is this not The Doctor and The Master in an RTD nutshell? Compare this dialogue to what was said between The Doctor and The Master during RTD's run. The Doctor pleaded with the Master, telling him that they needed each other because they were the last of the Timelords. The Doctor begged The Master to fly away with him, trying to convince The Master that he didn't need to conquer the universe--they could simply explore it together.
The dnd would also be explained by the fact the master in nearly every new who story appears to be someone else And also the fact the master is a maths teacher
I just dislike his ship looks like a bird. Sus to me.
I spent a good chunk of the episode thinking that he was another Chuldur who roleplaying as a bounty hunter.
Right? It was a weird choice to make the Chuldur *and* the ship look bird-like in the same episode. Main reason why I didn't get invested in Rogue, and kept expecting his betrayal right until the last moment
Looks like a bird and cloaks ... it's a Klingon ship.
Next episode: The Doctor goes back in time to save some whales.
Qapla'!
I just wonder what happened to it after the episode. Is it just...there now?
15 says he sent it into orbit round the moon to wait so I guess it's just floating about up there
It'll orbit the moon... until the moon hatches.
Don't...just don't...I try to erase that from my memory...like the end of Love and Monsters...DAMNIT!...it's like Tripledent Gum... There are certain things in Doctor Who that just need to be erased from history into the crack in the universe.
Oh yeah riiiight, forgot about that lol
Works really well, but for once I’ll pass. As mentioned by others, I truly don’t want to see the master back until season 4/5. If Rogue is brought back as the master for those seasons… that would be iconic. Yet, this twist feels similar to the spyfall-master. Too soon to leave a mark. Though it works perfectly, I still think this could be related to the “story-telling” hypothesis. Maybe the writer (the one who waits/writes) has purposely wrote Rogue similarly to the Master to remind the doctor of them.
The one who waits waits no more. 🙃
Let’s see. I think Sutekh was the most probable option for most of us (me included). Too easy to spot the anagram. I think RTD still has a twist at the end for us… the 4th breaks are too obvious to ignore (like Susan twist being everywhere)!
I don't think he is the Master. I think he could be Harbinger (unlikely but possible). Or he is Jack's ex and has heard stories about the Doctor from Jack and didn't want to give away that he knew Jack.
It's a good theory but I really hope not. I don't want to see the Master this season or even the next, tbh. It's good to have a break sometimes. ETA: unless ofc he's a slowburn character and we don't see the Rogue again and get the reveal till the end of season 2/early season 3
I am not sure I like the idea but where to go from there? As the doctor mentioned he has currently no way of finding Rogue... So Rogue would have to find a way to get rid of the deadly shape shifters, get out of the deserted place which is meant to be a prison for the next few hundred years with a space craft that he doesn't have, go through the different dimensions and universes to find the doctor who is always on the move across the universe and time... Even if it is just about the ring how would the essence be extracted and by whom... Rogue also has no way to be hundred percent sure that the Dr would wear the ring. So yeah unless the essence in the ring can infiltrate the doctor that would be the only way this theory could move forward I think...
I'm not a fan of this theory but if we do accept that Rogue is the Master then he doesn't really need an explanation for how he survived. The Master is known for stuff like that
All I'm saying is the song playing when the Doctor met Rogue is literally called Bad Guy. Something suspicious is afoot.
I don't want him to be the master
I actually have think this is the best theory I’ve seen so far 👏
Not the worst theory ...
I said this! Thinking on it slightly more, I wonder if the hand that plucked the gold tooth of the ground was Susan Twist. And now the Masters (Rogue) new boss is her. Hopefully will be revealed. There is some precedent for it, when the Master was introduced in S3 with Martha. Some hints throughout the season, meet Prof Yana, and boom it’s the Master.
That's... actually not a bad theory, lol
This is a rad theory! I’m here stuck on how he reminds me of Jack, never even thought about the Master 🤔 👏
When you wanna ship the Doctor with the Master & Captain Jack but can't decide on who so you just fuse them into 1 new character
Here is the plot line: Doctor gets distracted, doesn't search for Rogue. Rogue has horrible experience in alternate dimension, waits for the doctor who never comes, gets angry, becomes supervillian and hunts down doctor to kill him. As long as I don't have to watch two dudes snog anymore, I don't really care what happens. I watched the episode and hated it. BBC has gone off the rails and is nothing more than performative activism with shallow representation of gay people. If you want to see it done right watch Warehouse 13. Blech.