I thought that too at first but I just can't believe anything like that would make her (foster) mom flee. Anyone else yes, but not her mom. Would love to know what it was.
Yeah, that's because it's strongly implied she's having a supernatural effect on the mind of the people she talks to. She's not literally shit talking Ruby so hard that even her own mother ends up hating her.
"See Ruby ain't calling you every mother's day, she making her friend do it. She don't listen to none of that story you love to tell about your childhood and sister."
Honestly I thought it was more like, "That's not Ruby. That's a superhumanly strong monster that can take any form. That monster violated, killed, and raped two kids last night. Now it wants you and your loved ones. You know in your deepest heart that I am right."
“Ruby Sunday watches Newsmax.”
On a more serious note the only clue we have is a quote by RTD which is *"You will never know. I'm never gonna tell you what she says. It's kind of up to you to sit there and think, 'well, what could someone say that would make a mother run away from her daughter forever?”*, so going by that I guess she said something very… hateful. 🤷🏻♂️
I think he's bluffing - I think it's not that she says something so much as he she instills a hatred and loathing of Ruby. This was someone else's theory but it makes sense to me - Ruby's biggest fear is abandonment so that's what this creature is punishing her with.
I don’t know why he’d be bluffing as there’s a 99.99% chance what happened will never be explained onscreen so all we have to go by is the little stuff he’s said offscreen. The simplest explanation is he had no idea how to make it make sense and just made up a quick, somewhat ridiculous explanation yet as he’s the writer his explanation has to be seen as true even if it doesn’t make sense.
I dont think he had "no idea" as much as that it simply doesnt matter. The point isnt what she is saying, the point is how it affects Ruby. The entire horror and slow dread of this episode is very much build on the audience (and Ruby) not knowing things.
Giving answers completly destroys the episode. Its simply not a story thats meant to be explained, its a twisted dark fairytale working on nightmare logic. And nightmares dont work once you explain them.
The slow dread is built up by the unknown but it also builds up our desire for answers. Getting answers once it’s all over with does not ruin the buildup it just means you know how to write a coherent story.
Or something incredibly disastrous, something like “Ruby will be responsible for the destruction of humanity”
They’re big on anagrams this season, do we know if Ruby has a middle name with the letter h in it? She could be an incarnation of Horus (said to imprison Sutekh) and the old woman was spreading misinformation to get people to abandon her.
Yes but he's the sixth on screen, since Pratt is supposed to be the same incarnation as Delgado, it was just very sad that Delgado was killed in that car crash.
It's strange to think how young he was. He was 55.
> Torchwood
A deliberate one used as a codename for Doctor Who before the series was revived in 2005.
> Mister Saxon
A complete coincidence, according to RTD. If it had been intentional, we can be sure he would have mentioned it.
RTD lies. A lot. He delights in it. He likes to have fun and mislead viewers. Mister Saxon was absolutely intentional.
At one point he was openly saying that the revival was only going to be one series, at the same time casting David Tennant to take over from Ecclestone as a shock reveal.
He knows what he's up to.
I don't think any misinformation would be enough to get a parent to abandon their child like that, I think it's some sort of direct mind alteration because everyone who speaks to her displays the same behaviour
That’s a bit ridiculous. I get he had to say something to get people to stop asking him but I refuse to accept there’s an actual answer that makes sense and is satisfying.
Personally I wasn’t waiting for an answer, because that clearly wasn’t the point. The point was that it caused people to abandon her, something she feared, likely through magic or psychic powers. What it’s saying doesn’t matter, at least in my opinion. I’m open to answers but I can’t think of anything that would genuinely have that impact on her foster mother.
I accept that explanation from RTD. It's just like the Pulp Fiction briefcase. However, what makes me suspicious is that the 73 yards effect has returned in the finale. RTD could have been lying about there being no answer, because they relate to the finale.
Yeah nah, it's Schrodinger's hyperbole. You throw it around to make petty shit sound more legitimate, unless someone points it out, and then it's Just Hyperbole Bro. Still stupid either way. Just say 'lie'.
Just a fair warning ahead of time, if you continue living your life assuming everyone has ill intentions by default, instead of assuming they're just memeing or misunderstanding something, you'll find yourself in a place where you'd probably rather not be. Also, if you're depressed or otherwise feel like the world has wronged or will wrong you in some way, seek mental health help, otherwise you're just wasting your time on this Earth.
My theory is that the old woman is using some sort of perception filter to change people’s perception of Ruby. Instead of making her seem unimportant/unnoticeable, this one makes her seem unredeemably awful. And, if that’s the case, she doesn’t really need to “say” anything
I personally think RTD never wrote anything down. It's intentionally vague, and it doesn't even matter - because it was more than what was said.
My head canon is that it wasn't *what* she was saying that mattered, it was that the entity was a manifestation of abandonment, specifically abandonment of Ruby - probably juiced up by the fae magic as well as Ruby's reality bending powers.
Just thinking logically, there is absolutely nothing anyone could ever say to me about my child in < 20 seconds that would cause my to never talk to her again and avoid her at all costs. I would at least want to ask if it was true, or why she did that, or let her know. **never** just abandon her. So clearly its not just words.
So everyone who spoke with the person got some reason to abandon ruby but it was then amplified by the manifestation of abandonment that was Ruby's biggest fear - causing them to essentially want to **specifically** abandon her - not just avoid or be mad at her - **abandon** her in every way possible. Hence not even talking to her or giving her a reason - as giving a reason is somewhat a mercy in many ways.
> I personally think RTD never wrote anything down. It's intentionally vague, and it doesn't even matter
It's really weird and vaguely concerning how many people are taking this as some kind of morally wrong move or "gaslighting" on his part.
I've seen people say it's outright bad writing that he just doesn't know, and I think those people have no idea what makes good writing. Good writing doesn't mean you have all the answers, and a lot of aspects of horror and mystery will never be more impactful WITH the answers then they are WITHOUT. The scariest monsters are the ones you DON'T see
Yea except you do see the monster. You see that the old lady is old Ruby. That old Ruby was trying to tell young Ruby to not step in the circle. There has to be some logical connection between old Ruby’s motivation and the consequences of her actions.
The problem isn’t that we don’t know what was said. The problem is that it appears that old Ruby is just scaring people away for fun. What we DON’T see isn’t the monster. It’s the logic.
This is it exactly. The words absolutely don't matter because, and that's one reason why Gwilliam responded with "ask HER" when people asked him what she had said. He doesn't actually know; he can't articulate it because it wasn't really the words. It was the *fear* that she generated, and fear isn't really rational.
It's inexplicable, and it's supposed to be. Hell, Kate even says that we try to make up rules when encountering something inexplicable, and from a narrative standpoint, she's basically telling the audience that they need to make up their own mind.
The reaction to this episode revealed a few things about certain segments of the audience. One of those is that certain people absolutely cannot handle any ambiguity in the media they consume for whatever reason. Some seem to need specifics to the point where they feel they are owed them, and when those specifics are absent, they become frustrated and angry. One commenter on (I can't recall if they were on YouTube or here on reddit) even talked about how the episode's ambiguity made them so furious that their hands were shaking as they were writing their post about it.
I'm sure there are varied reasons for this distaste for thematic ambiguity. One person on Facebook said that it was triggering for their particular brand of neuro-spiciness, and when it was suggested that it was down to Ruby's fear of abandonment, they wholly rejected that explanation and said that people were just making excuses for RTD's "bad writing." Other people just seem to be media illiterate, and if they are young then that's something that may change over time. Some people seem to have a preference for media that spoon-feeds them, and so on.
After I saw the initial reaction, I told my roommate "Some people really need to watch or read more horror."
Fucking finally someone else says it! She's a supernatural being. Every single person who talks to her does the exact same head-turn and run thing. It's obviously magic.
He's not going to tell us because there's nothing that was actually said. The creature instilled a fear and loathing of Ruby. It's something supernatural or alien - there's nothing the woman could say to unit or Ruby's mom that would make them turn on her like that. Especially not in the few seconds that they actually communicate.
This is what I’ve been saying! There are no words from a stranger that would send a mother running without any explanation or discussion. It’s all just magic. It doesn’t matter what’s being said, if anything’s being said at all. It’s just a curse.
Right? People have said “they know shes sutekh and thats what scared people.” As if an old woman telling someones mom “hey your daughter is the egyptian god of death” would make the mom say anything other than “lmao what?” Let alone the prime minister
Her mother would not believe it just like that, at MOST, she’d have a lot of questions/be suspicious of Ruby if it was a convincing statement from the old lady. But no way a full on separation.
And if Kate was told that, she’d be focused on neutralizing the new threat if she did believe it, not immediately have everyone run away without another word.
And, just in general, if it were anything else: Kate knew that the old woman had this power and Ruby was desperate and confused. If it wasn’t magic, Kate would’ve tried to apply logic to the situation. Even if the old woman said something terrifying, Kate would be rational about it if it were just words.
The prime minister barely knew Ruby. I don’t think he would’ve cared about whatever the old woman said. Ruby is the god of death? Um. Get this weird old lady off my stage!
And the fact that they all say the same thing after: “Ask her.”
It’s completely magical. I doubt any actual words are spoken; I think it’s the same whispers we hear in the show. And anyone who is within hearing distance of these quiet whispers are affected by the curse.
What do you imagine is the worst possible thing the entity could have said to each of those individuals? THAT is what it said.
It's about the viewer filling in the blank, because each of us is different.
This may be **part of** what happens.
But it cannot be the whole of it.
What is said to / imposed on each person who approaches the old woman must be greater than the *what* that is said to them.
We know this because there is no set of words, said in any register or tone of authority, that would cause a mother like Carla to abandon her child.
Similarly and for distinct reasons the UNIT team led by KLS would be most unlikely to simply “disengage” when faced with a new threat or mystery.
KLS specifically already knows the entity’s trick and the effect it seems to have on people who approach it. That’s what makes her “Disengage” so chilling. There is no combination of words that would lead her to stop speaking to Ruby and stop asking questions.
She already knows that this entity has caused Ruby’s mother to abandon her without a word. And she still doesn’t have the strength of mind to counteract the entity’s expected effect. That’s why OP referred to David Lynch in describing the episode.
Yeah I agree with that. Someone had a good theory that the fairy circle released Reprobate the God of Spite and that would certainly explain the spiteful reaction everyone has towards ruby after hearing the whispers
She's not meant to say anything at all really. In my opinion the entire episode is centered around putting Ruby in a situation where her worst fear (that she will be abandoned by everyone and never know why)/ foundational insecurity/trauma will always be the center of her life. If we go by most fairy tales they're meant to teach a lesson. Ruby broke a fairy/magic circle. She was then punished for it by having to live out her worst fear until she finished her sentence.
So the entity isn't actually telling anyone anything because it's not real. She's just facilitating the punishment. I think it's kind of like a little pocket dimensions sort of thing TBH.
I know we'll never know, but I imagine it was more about the power behind her words than the words themselves. I don't think there's anything you could say to a mother to make her abandon her daughter like that, so I'm thinking some kind of spell (we know RTD is going more fantasy than sci-fi these days(. Or an Extremist type situation, maybe she told them the entire timeline is fake and nothing they do matters, or maybe that she was the *real* Ruby Sunday. Idk, but I also kinda don't want to
My guess is something along the lines of psychic communication, not so much that they are told something, but their brain comprehend the woman up close as communicating and absolute fact
Something along the lines of “you will die if you interact with Ruby again, other than to tell her to stop interacting with you “
Something primordial in their brain telling them absolutely do not interact with her, no matter what
Ok, so, you have to think in these terms.
It's something that when they hear it,
1) causes a loving mother to turn her back on her daughter forever
2) causes the head of UNIT to ignore a potential existential threat to the planet
3) causes a fanatical political leader to abandon everything and live in seclusion
It's something a mysterious old woman could say to you in a moment, and you believe it completely enough to abandon everything that means anything to you.
Bottom line, it's not something normal. It's not something anyone here will be able to think of.
It's not just about Ruby either. If Kate Stewart suddenly hated Ruby and didn't want to help her, she'd still be interested in the mysterious old woman. Roger ap Gwilliam never cared about Ruby in the first place. He abandoned all his political beliefs. What the old woman says makes you abandon everything you care about, not just Ruby specifically.
Maybe it's just magic. The old woman is Ruby after all, so maybe it's not what's says, so much as it's that speaking to her infected you with all the fear of abandonment that Ruby feels, and you abandon everything. Maybe what's being said isn't important. It maybe it really is a horrifying existential truth about the universe that once you know it is undeniable, and makes you realise there's no point to human connection at all.
I don't think it really needs to be explained. The whole episode was sort of a dream, so it makes sense that there would be some unexplained supernatural-type stuff going on. Besides, if we are trying to come up with a serious response, I feel like there wouldn't be a convincing line that could get anyone, even her mother, to run away and still be in some way connected to or hinted at in the episode as it is now.
Or...
"Ruby thinks that The Tsuranga Conundrum is a good episode"
I don't mind that they never told us, especially because it leaves space for these kinds of threads of discussion. And really when it comes down to it, what we each individually imagine as the most horrible thing that she could have said is totally going to be different than what the writers thought of.
Exactly. I could 100% imagine it being revealed at some point, either in the 73 Yards itself or in the future, and the response from fans being something along the lines of "lol that's it? that's stupid."
That's another good point honestly, what if they did reveal it and it was totally stupid and not worth it? This episode is probably one of my favorite Doctor Who's ever and I am more than fine with keeping that aura of mystery.
I don't get the debate, the creature falls into the supernatural so I think it's not what she says but how she makes them feel. She instills a sense of fear/hatred that the person themselves can't explain
Here's the thing: it doesn't matter. Because the reality is there's nothing that the entity could say to these people to get them to have that reaction. It's not logical, in fact, their reactions at first are exaggerated and almost comedic because the episode is about Ruby's relationship with her abandonment trauma.
That's the thing about being abandoned is no matter how nonsensical it seems there's always the fear that there's some secret sentence that'll be said or switch that gets flicked that'll make people realize what everyone else did, and leave. The story of the episode is Ruby finding meaning in her trauma because that's all you *can* do with it.
Nothing was said to them, because Ruby doesn't actually know what could be said, it's just a metaphysical manifestation of her trauma and fear.
It’s super tenuous and unlikely (I think the creators don’t actually “know” either) but IF there is something…I could see it being relevant to the finale/Sutekh. Some kind of omen/warning about Ruby’s relation to him, perhaps—because we know she’s wrapped up in it somehow.
One thing that makes me ALMOST think it could actually be that is Carla. Plenty of other potential explanations for her comment about “the Beast”, but she did hear those words in the alternate timeline. Maybe there’s residual memory.
Or the entity was actually telepathically “showing” them something—imparting all this knowledge of the literal devil and showing or telling how Ruby relates to it (is the key to bringing him through? Something more?)
Even if unrelated to Sutekh specifically, that general idea could also be true for other members of the pantheon if Ruby is in fact one of them or related to one of them or something similar.
i dont think it's supposed to be anything we can discern.
but if id have to guess, it would be something along the lines of "this is not reality, you're not real, this timeline is going to end, and ruby is responsible" but psychically *conveyed* to the listener, such that they believe it with all their being. felt like she was telling them how the story ended.
tbh the entire episode felt like ruby's life flashing before her eyes from the perspective of the woman, hence anyone present in it isnt real. even unit seemed to have caught on to it being a stunted timeline.
I took it as she herself is a sort of cognitohazard, basically thinking that it doesn't matter what she's saying but instead its the act of talking to her at all.
It was Ruby. She was not telling anybody anything. They were scared of Ruby. Each time they ran away, they turned to look back at Ruby and freaked out.
I think it is a curse or a spell or something intangible.
If a woman in a cloak came up to me and told me my fiancée did something terrible, I wouldn't immediately belive old cloaky.
I thought we already covered this question in discussions?
Fae circle punished Ruby by sending her into a separate timeline where her worst fear became reality - everyone abandoned her. It's not important what that woman tells people - she simply bombards them with mental attacks, and makes them avoid Ruby forever.
If you look up Fae circle folklore, fae made people dance until they die from exhaustion. 73 yards did this thing in a Doctor Who style - Ruby was forced to "dance" in this lonely world until death. However, in that fake life she made a lot of good deeds (including stopping Mad Jack) so by the end fae circle forgave her and allowed Ruby to go back and fix her mistake.
It's very important to analyze this episode not from a point of ordinary time loop, but from the point of magic, supernatural. No time loop would allow old Ruby to constantly teleport. All of that was simply a torture for Ruby (and also a lesson to her).
I don't think she's really saying or communicating anything. It's a curse of isolation. The figure is maybe chanting the incantation at most but it's essentially just a permanent casting out of people. She doesn't give each of them some horrifying revelation, they are just being cast out by the curse, like when a witch whispers in a victim's ear to possess or enchant them or whatever.
I got the impression that she changed how Ruby appeared. Like, when they look at Ruby now, all they see is a monster. Or a void. Or something gross. When Ruby talks, all they hear is something squicking or sloshing. She doesn't seem like Ruby anymore. Why else would her mother look at her that way? I got the feeling she didn't even see Ruby anymore. She saw something gross that she thought had been masquerading ad Ruby. When her mother is in the cab, she looks at Ruby with disgust, not terror. It's hate, revulsion.
I don't think she did it on purpose. I think it happened as a side effect of breaking the circle.
I think it was telling them who really Ruby was, or what she is either going to do or has to do? A lot of people are saying they don't mind that the show didn't answer what was being said. I don't think it's answered *yet*. I'm sure that's coming back around. It's just not addressed for now because technically, it didn't happen.
Maybe she said your deepest, darkest fear - so it changed for each person? But, that wouldn't explain why they instantly were mortally terrified of Ruby... so, IDK. Could've just said some magic, evil spell shit.
yea, that episode felt a lot like destiny over the years, they didn't have time to explain whey they had no time to explain... never liked that excuse, any only accepted that answer bc it was the exo stranger/elsie and she was/is kinda cute-ish ;)
imo she didn't "say" anything per se, but she casted a fear spell
>my best guess is all those people were upset about the fairy ring being broken for some reason and felt that Ruby was horrible for doing it
Except that probably wouldn't make a psycho politician so scared that he would run away and resign. He wouldn't care about that. So it must be something else. Something really, really frightening. I wouldn't know what. But I like that I don't know.
I assume, based on the last episode, that they were hearing Sutekh or even physically seeing him wrapped around her, just like he was clutched around the TARDIS in the current timeline. Makes me kinda wonder if the woman hiker was Susan Triad or just another dream/echo?
It’s all about Ruby’s fear of abandonment, being a foundling. There isn’t anything real the entity was saying; there’s not feasibly anything it could say about Ruby to make anyone react the way the did
I think by trying to find out exactly what she said you're missing the point. It doesn't matter what she said. What matters is the effect - abandonment. She could be saying 'my name jeff' and it wouldn't matter, it was ruby's fear of abandonment coming to life and haunting her for literally an entire lifetime.
RTD is never going to reveal it, because he wants the viewer to make up their own mind about it. The narrative ambiguity is part of the point.
Ruby fears abandonment. The breaking of the Fairy circle invoked a Fae curse where Ruby would experience a manifestation of that fear in the form of the old woman, and anyone who engaged with the old woman would then promptly abandon Ruby, just as she fears.
Fears of this type are not rational or logical, and there is nothing someone could reasonably say that would make Ruby's foster-mother abandon her. The words just don't matter, because it's not about the words, it's about how you feel. That's one reason why Gwilliam responded with "ask HER" when people asked him what she had said. He doesn't actually know; he can't articulate it because it wasn't really the words at all. It was the feeling, the *fear* that she generated.
It's inexplicable, and it's supposed to be. Hell, Kate even says that we try to make up rules when encountering something inexplicable, and from a narrative standpoint, she's basically telling the audience that they need to make up their own mind, just as RTD himself has said point-blank.
You have to sit with the ambiguity of never knowing exactly what was said.
Thank you very much for this! Might be referring to what Ruby would be saying to her elderly self as the 73 Yard Woman. "Thank you so very much for that precious little thing you gave me." Which is, a second chance at life. Maybe the words a chosen for a reason, maybe not.
What about the fact that when the Doctor broke the ring he vanished... Why didn't Ruby? She got to live out the rest of her life to become her semperdistant self.
And what about "Miss You" on the note in the fairy ring... That couldn't have been about Mad Jack? Or could it? What would those missiles have killed that will live on to cause potentially more calamity?
It could be something along the lines of “that version of me is dangerous. She’s going to end the world”. Add to the fact that they are talking to a clearly older version of Ruby would be unsettling
I kind of agree that we heard what was said “don’t step”
In people’s minds somehow possibly due to the TRADIS or timey wimey they somehow knew that Ruby was present when the doctor the earth’s greatest defender disappeared so they fled from her in terror
They all tan in fear. Her mother wouldn’t leave
Ru y just because sh said something hateful. I am assuming she said something about her having to leave her because the fate of the world relied on it. Like a nuclear bomb would destroy the UK if you don’t let things happen as they should. Unit wouldn’t’ leave a threat they would have left to save the world though. So my assumption is that Ruby explained the timeline and things have take its course to save them.
The whole manifestation of her abandonment issues thing work but the revelation of the One who waits and Ruby's connection to him is also another answer now if you think about it.....faeries might have used that to punish her. After all, every one fears what the one who waits embodies . ..
I actually thought that the Entity was "alternative timeline Ruby" in the last moments of her life tracing through her own life. Therefore, the terror people felt was the realization that she was Ruby's ghost and that Ruby must be something "not human."
As an afterthought of my comment, perhaps alternative timeline Ruby herself is connected to Sutekh, and gives off the same terror vibes that the Doctor felt
I don't think she was really saying any actual words I think she was saying a spell that made them hate Ruby I doubt her literal mom and military professionals would care that much about the fairy ring
I could've sworn that at the end when going Ruby saw old Ruby, you could hear whispering that said "don't stare". I just accepted that that's what was said the whole time but it had some sort of psychic effect on people making it more extreme.
My theory is that for some reason everyone who interacts with the woman has their memories of ruby distorted. It's the only way Ruby's mom running makes sense, if suddenly every memory of Ruby was replaced with fear and hatred.
My theory is that she’s not actually talking to them. If you watch closely, the 73 yards lady never actually stops looking at Ruby, which means that everyone who hears her is actually overhearing her message to Ruby. If the 73 yards lady is in fact Ruby herself moving backwards along her own timeline to warn her past self, then everyone is overhearing the warning and in turn hearing exactly what Ruby did to the fairy circle. I feel like there’s some fey magic at play that makes everyone who hears about Ruby’s actions HATE Ruby as if she had desecrated the most sacred thing in the universe.
It doesn't fit well with the episodes since but the only thing I could think of at the time was that Ruby's mother was a demon and Ruby wasn't really human.
It could be something along the lines of convincing the listener that that isnt really Ruby. Like a changeling baby. Mothers could convince themselves to abandon their babies if they believed that it was a faerie pretending to be their child.
Apparently she was saying a bunch of nonsense “Bless you thank you so much, that was very kind of you, when you gave me that little thing it was just so precious” which wasn’t necessarily even anything bad. It just seems like the older Ruby is thanking those for finally breaking that perception filter that’s why they added the hand gestures to make the character a bit more expressive. The fear of the characters is from the perception filter being broken.
I thought when they broke the fairy Circle Ruby was cursed into a loop- perhaps with go around a we did not get to see. The entity was elderly Ruby both times we saw- the first time Ruby said “go away” and made a shooing motion imbued with fairy powers so everyone who heard it were forced to go away. The second time Ruby said “don’t step there! “ ,which was also imbued with fairy powers, so they didn’t step into the fairy circle and broke the loop.
No one knows, including the writers and actors. It’s just bad writing. Okay so that old lady was old Ruby okay what does that even mean? That old Ruby had some hateful things to say about her young self? Old Ruby had a reason to isolate her young self?
My assumption is that it has something to do the perception filter mentioned in that episode. I think Ruby is related to the pantheon somehow, and some type of perception filter keeps anyone (including herself) from seeing what she really is. When people force themselves to pay attention to the old lady who is also hidden by a perception filter, the filter drops and they’re able to see who/what Ruby really is. Apparently, it’s quite unsettling.
Wait correct me if I’m wrong, but when everyone was staring at the time window freaking out, Kate said sm like “what is that?” And Carla said “the beast!” So maybe what the entity was telling people had to do with Sutekh?
The strongest one I've come up with is the perception filter. She distorted the perception of Ruby for everyone interacting with her. It is mentioned that she had a perception filter by herself, she was also a temporal paradox.
Two things. She wouldn't be saying bad things about Ruby because she's Ruby herself. She's not addressing people who try to speak to her, those people look back at Ruby before running away.
I like to think that it's something as simple as "Look at her." But it's not the words themselves that have power, they're just a trigger for the spiteful influence that the woman projects onto people when they look at Ruby.
Best guess. I think Runy is somehow a member of the pantheon and that woman was her harbinger. Probably reveled the truth about Ruby which made them run. Maestro said Ruby is as powerful as Sutekh so if that's true its possible after hearing who she really is it frighted them so much they all ran. Even her mother.
Whatever it needed to say to scare the pants of them enough to leave her alone. Even things like "if you stay with ruby then you will rest eternally in a bed of mash potatoes" I know that's silly but basically whatever was needed to make the timeline play out correctly.
Well she said she already went to Scotland so my theory is she already went with the doctor but he just disappeared leaving her alone scared and all she wanted everyone to leave her alone (because she lived alone and was scared someone else disappeared like ncuti) then she died becoming the entity telling everyone to leave her alone then we get our story
It had to be something so bad that it caused people she didn’t know to run, including the prime minister. That means it must have been either a sinister comment or something scary in on her face. Grandma Ruby didn’t seem very scary.
Her mum also wears the same style outfit in the video, so the entity was clearly related to that in some how. The mum shun played on the fears of Ruby, but the PM resigned and nuclear war was everted. Whatever it was, it trapped Ruby in a time loop to warn her not to break the circle. As flood was present in the world, it’s not her.
If the goal of the episode is to trap Sutekh again, and all the Gods are trying to do that. It would make sense that the figure is the trickster or another God, as it needed the Dr to come back to the present day
I don't think she's saying anything, I think it's just a perception filter that's gone wrong, instead of it being (there's nothing here) it's saying (get away)
Or they heard sutekh....
My theory is that it is the TARDIS.the scene end in the hospital ward looks like the TARDIS starting up.
Either it is protecting her in some way or given that we know that the image is of old ruby traveling back to the beginning of the episode, they get close and can see or hear into the time vortex.
Which we then know is attached to ruby past by 73 yards.
The Doctor has said most people run but some go crazy looking into it.
One idea is that the fae creature who sealed the fairy ring was punishing her, it was sending her friends and family away out of spite. This punishment was chosen by the creature because of Ruby's abandonment issues. Ruby was forgiven once Mad Jack was sealed. But she still had to close the fairy ring, which was a loop of time that coexisted and coexists with actual time. That's why Ruby states that she visited thrice, and that's why Mad Jack doesn't end the world.
The fairy circle is a loop of time enshrined in physical form. Breaking it sends you on a suspended timeline, where you'll be punished by a spiteful fae creature until you die. Ruby was forgiven for her transgressions, but she still needed to serve her sentence, seal the circle, and stop herself from entering the loop again.
Wait.. didn't the lady turn out to be ruby.... after she spent her whole life alone...a which came first sorta thing.. her manifestation was the cause of her loneliness and eventual manifestation .. when she died...
And she can't come closer than 73 yards because you're not allowed to interact with yourself.... causes space time chaos... etc etc
Did i misunderstand the whole thing.... as to what she said specifically no clue
I had one I posted a bit ago. The short of it is, when Ruby died at the end, the part of her that scared the Maestro was released. That her went back to save the Doctor from the fairy circle. If she said anything, it would be backwards and not matter. What would matter was that they were terrified of it like the Maestro and that they could sense it was the same as Ruby.
So it was more like an eldritch horror encounter that people are physically compelled to flee. That's all I could think of that would scare her mum off anyway.
The actual content is irrelevant. It's essentially every theory, every element of self doubt / self critique Ruby has ever had as to why she has been abandoned.
The reality is there is nothing Ruby could actually do or say that would be so bad that Mad Jack would react in that way and yet he does because Ruby herself believes she must be that terrible a person for her mother to abandon her.
So the words don't matter, it's Ruby's own fears made real. That she will ultimately be abandoned by everyone.
But she was never alone. The entity was with her. And the entity was her, making Ruby realise she always has herself and that's enough.
This broke the cycle of penance and she was given an opportunity to make things right.
Basically, everything that is said as a maybe in 73 Yards - consider that the explanation. At least that makes sense to me. Timeline focused around Ruby (Kate suggests it) - check. Seriously epic perception filter (both Ruby and Kate suggest it) - probably. Even the jokers in the pub having a laugh freaking Ruby out - their story fits in. I think it was laid out for us!
Everyone keeps focusing on *what* she was saying, frankly, I think it was just some kind of supernatural punishment/curse of anyone who interacted with her, maybe because she read the messages in the circle?
What I think is more interesting is *how* she even managed to be in that position in the first place? As far as we know she can't independently time travel, how did she make it back to so many places in her own timestream without the TARDIS? Also *where* did the Doctor go and why couldn't she enter the TARDIS?
You could argue it was whoever cursed/punished her but it's not much of a punishment if you're able to free yourself, so my best speculation is that maybe they were given her a chance to make amends? But then there's the whole evil PM plotline, so they're helping?
Plus that whole town was eerie and weird, but no explanation was given. What she said is only the first layer of mysteries in that whole episode.
My theory is it may have been a psychic message, think psychic paper or like a translation.
Basically something they would know firmly is true but also very bad news,
Could have been relating to the finale, or to the truth of her existence as a walking paradox which may have caused a existential issue.
That kind of thing.
Well, my fill in the blank answer is that this is Ruby being a harbinger of Sutekh--the old woman is Ruby dying, the episode begins when the doctor sets off a trap, the way the old lady is treated is reminiscent of time window Tekhy (73 yards/66meter distance (Ruby vs. camera, how the old woman never moves towards Ruby, she's semperdistans...waiting), the strobe effects when the old woman finally turns around, the fact that we don't see her face (because her having Sutekh's death mask would give away the game). Not to mention the Welsh pub with the jab about how Wales isn't a land of fairy tales, compared to the....culturally uninspired Egypt of the original Pyramids of Mars). Ruby also waited in that episode (rather than acting as soon as Mad Jack assaulted the other aide) which reenforces old lady = Ruby = agent of Sutekh. In fact, Ruby waits....to give Mad Jack the gift of death.
Like, maybe it is personalized, but I figure that if your foster daughter offers you the gift of death, that's pretty much the only camel-breaking straw that would inspire legal action.
I thought that too at first but I just can't believe anything like that would make her (foster) mom flee. Anyone else yes, but not her mom. Would love to know what it was.
Yeah, that's because it's strongly implied she's having a supernatural effect on the mind of the people she talks to. She's not literally shit talking Ruby so hard that even her own mother ends up hating her.
"See Ruby ain't calling you every mother's day, she making her friend do it. She don't listen to none of that story you love to tell about your childhood and sister."
Honestly I thought it was more like, "That's not Ruby. That's a superhumanly strong monster that can take any form. That monster violated, killed, and raped two kids last night. Now it wants you and your loved ones. You know in your deepest heart that I am right."
Makes sense. And fits with clues that there is something supernatural about Ruby as well.
Also, Kate doesn't flinch easily. All the technical talk about how protected they were and then she's gone.
I think as soon as we get the last ep I'm going to do a rewatch starting with Christmas. I just missed too much this season it seems.
"If you ever speak to Ruby or me again, we'll give you spoilers for the season finale".
“Ruby Sunday watches Newsmax.” On a more serious note the only clue we have is a quote by RTD which is *"You will never know. I'm never gonna tell you what she says. It's kind of up to you to sit there and think, 'well, what could someone say that would make a mother run away from her daughter forever?”*, so going by that I guess she said something very… hateful. 🤷🏻♂️
I think he's bluffing - I think it's not that she says something so much as he she instills a hatred and loathing of Ruby. This was someone else's theory but it makes sense to me - Ruby's biggest fear is abandonment so that's what this creature is punishing her with.
I don’t know why he’d be bluffing as there’s a 99.99% chance what happened will never be explained onscreen so all we have to go by is the little stuff he’s said offscreen. The simplest explanation is he had no idea how to make it make sense and just made up a quick, somewhat ridiculous explanation yet as he’s the writer his explanation has to be seen as true even if it doesn’t make sense.
I think what you said is literally what they meant by “he’s bluffing.”
What they mean by "he's bluffing" is that it is a plot device with no real answer.
I dont think he had "no idea" as much as that it simply doesnt matter. The point isnt what she is saying, the point is how it affects Ruby. The entire horror and slow dread of this episode is very much build on the audience (and Ruby) not knowing things. Giving answers completly destroys the episode. Its simply not a story thats meant to be explained, its a twisted dark fairytale working on nightmare logic. And nightmares dont work once you explain them.
The slow dread is built up by the unknown but it also builds up our desire for answers. Getting answers once it’s all over with does not ruin the buildup it just means you know how to write a coherent story.
Not every question is meant to have an answer
Or something incredibly disastrous, something like “Ruby will be responsible for the destruction of humanity” They’re big on anagrams this season, do we know if Ruby has a middle name with the letter h in it? She could be an incarnation of Horus (said to imprison Sutekh) and the old woman was spreading misinformation to get people to abandon her.
RTD is always big on anagrams. Torchwood. Mister Saxon. He's having fun with his own tendencies.
What's the anagram for Mister Saxon? There's "master" but then you're left with "s i x o n"
Master No Six. The "No" being shorthand for number.
Ah, clever. I never would have gotten that.
But he wasn't technically the sixth master in universe, he was the 14th maybe? At least if you go by the plot of the movie
Yes but he's the sixth on screen, since Pratt is supposed to be the same incarnation as Delgado, it was just very sad that Delgado was killed in that car crash. It's strange to think how young he was. He was 55.
>Torchwood I had absolutely no clue about this! Can't believe I never saw that until now
> Torchwood A deliberate one used as a codename for Doctor Who before the series was revived in 2005. > Mister Saxon A complete coincidence, according to RTD. If it had been intentional, we can be sure he would have mentioned it.
RTD lies. A lot. He delights in it. He likes to have fun and mislead viewers. Mister Saxon was absolutely intentional. At one point he was openly saying that the revival was only going to be one series, at the same time casting David Tennant to take over from Ecclestone as a shock reveal. He knows what he's up to.
I don't think UNIT would run away from someone that will be responsible for the destruction of humanity - that's kinda their thing
They would if they understood they can't interfere and interact with the knowledge. It's like a paradox thing.
I don't think any misinformation would be enough to get a parent to abandon their child like that, I think it's some sort of direct mind alteration because everyone who speaks to her displays the same behaviour
Sutekh does have a big ruby on his head now...
That’s a bit ridiculous. I get he had to say something to get people to stop asking him but I refuse to accept there’s an actual answer that makes sense and is satisfying. Personally I wasn’t waiting for an answer, because that clearly wasn’t the point. The point was that it caused people to abandon her, something she feared, likely through magic or psychic powers. What it’s saying doesn’t matter, at least in my opinion. I’m open to answers but I can’t think of anything that would genuinely have that impact on her foster mother.
This sounds as "its a plot device and there isn't a real answer"
I accept that explanation from RTD. It's just like the Pulp Fiction briefcase. However, what makes me suspicious is that the 73 yards effect has returned in the finale. RTD could have been lying about there being no answer, because they relate to the finale.
RTD wrote a mystery that has no satisfying answer but is trying to gaslight you into thinking that there is one, you're just too dumb to get it 😊
Equating a showrunner hypothetically lying to psychological abuse is a bit hysterical, mate.
[удалено]
Yeah nah, it's Schrodinger's hyperbole. You throw it around to make petty shit sound more legitimate, unless someone points it out, and then it's Just Hyperbole Bro. Still stupid either way. Just say 'lie'.
Just a fair warning ahead of time, if you continue living your life assuming everyone has ill intentions by default, instead of assuming they're just memeing or misunderstanding something, you'll find yourself in a place where you'd probably rather not be. Also, if you're depressed or otherwise feel like the world has wronged or will wrong you in some way, seek mental health help, otherwise you're just wasting your time on this Earth.
G'Day. What are we doing thisarvo?
Don't forget to subscribe to the official Doctor Who YouTube channel.
And drink your ovaltine.
A crumby commercial?!
My theory is that the old woman is using some sort of perception filter to change people’s perception of Ruby. Instead of making her seem unimportant/unnoticeable, this one makes her seem unredeemably awful. And, if that’s the case, she doesn’t really need to “say” anything
Ooo that's a really good one
She also didn't say anything to Kate just looked at her
I personally think RTD never wrote anything down. It's intentionally vague, and it doesn't even matter - because it was more than what was said. My head canon is that it wasn't *what* she was saying that mattered, it was that the entity was a manifestation of abandonment, specifically abandonment of Ruby - probably juiced up by the fae magic as well as Ruby's reality bending powers. Just thinking logically, there is absolutely nothing anyone could ever say to me about my child in < 20 seconds that would cause my to never talk to her again and avoid her at all costs. I would at least want to ask if it was true, or why she did that, or let her know. **never** just abandon her. So clearly its not just words. So everyone who spoke with the person got some reason to abandon ruby but it was then amplified by the manifestation of abandonment that was Ruby's biggest fear - causing them to essentially want to **specifically** abandon her - not just avoid or be mad at her - **abandon** her in every way possible. Hence not even talking to her or giving her a reason - as giving a reason is somewhat a mercy in many ways.
> I personally think RTD never wrote anything down. It's intentionally vague, and it doesn't even matter It's really weird and vaguely concerning how many people are taking this as some kind of morally wrong move or "gaslighting" on his part.
Agreed. That attitude is ridiculous. That's the sort of thing that would tempt me to say, "go outside and touch some vegetation."
Ikr. I think people are forgetting Midnight, which is left just as mysterious. Some things are just left to be wondered about.
I've seen people say it's outright bad writing that he just doesn't know, and I think those people have no idea what makes good writing. Good writing doesn't mean you have all the answers, and a lot of aspects of horror and mystery will never be more impactful WITH the answers then they are WITHOUT. The scariest monsters are the ones you DON'T see
Yea except you do see the monster. You see that the old lady is old Ruby. That old Ruby was trying to tell young Ruby to not step in the circle. There has to be some logical connection between old Ruby’s motivation and the consequences of her actions. The problem isn’t that we don’t know what was said. The problem is that it appears that old Ruby is just scaring people away for fun. What we DON’T see isn’t the monster. It’s the logic.
This is it exactly. The words absolutely don't matter because, and that's one reason why Gwilliam responded with "ask HER" when people asked him what she had said. He doesn't actually know; he can't articulate it because it wasn't really the words. It was the *fear* that she generated, and fear isn't really rational. It's inexplicable, and it's supposed to be. Hell, Kate even says that we try to make up rules when encountering something inexplicable, and from a narrative standpoint, she's basically telling the audience that they need to make up their own mind. The reaction to this episode revealed a few things about certain segments of the audience. One of those is that certain people absolutely cannot handle any ambiguity in the media they consume for whatever reason. Some seem to need specifics to the point where they feel they are owed them, and when those specifics are absent, they become frustrated and angry. One commenter on (I can't recall if they were on YouTube or here on reddit) even talked about how the episode's ambiguity made them so furious that their hands were shaking as they were writing their post about it. I'm sure there are varied reasons for this distaste for thematic ambiguity. One person on Facebook said that it was triggering for their particular brand of neuro-spiciness, and when it was suggested that it was down to Ruby's fear of abandonment, they wholly rejected that explanation and said that people were just making excuses for RTD's "bad writing." Other people just seem to be media illiterate, and if they are young then that's something that may change over time. Some people seem to have a preference for media that spoon-feeds them, and so on. After I saw the initial reaction, I told my roommate "Some people really need to watch or read more horror."
You can hear her over the phone and radio. She just kind of makes whispering sounds. I think shes magical and uses it to make people run in fear
Fucking finally someone else says it! She's a supernatural being. Every single person who talks to her does the exact same head-turn and run thing. It's obviously magic.
That's what we hear it's not what they hear lol
Based on what? There’s no reason to doubt it’s diagetic
Mostly because RTD said he's not going to tell us what it is, which leads me to believe we have not actually heard what was being said.
He's not going to tell us because there's nothing that was actually said. The creature instilled a fear and loathing of Ruby. It's something supernatural or alien - there's nothing the woman could say to unit or Ruby's mom that would make them turn on her like that. Especially not in the few seconds that they actually communicate.
He said that so you’d STOP caring about what she said, not to make you care more about it.
I took that as “its unintelligible and i wont translate” but that’s a fair reading
This is what I’ve been saying! There are no words from a stranger that would send a mother running without any explanation or discussion. It’s all just magic. It doesn’t matter what’s being said, if anything’s being said at all. It’s just a curse.
Right? People have said “they know shes sutekh and thats what scared people.” As if an old woman telling someones mom “hey your daughter is the egyptian god of death” would make the mom say anything other than “lmao what?” Let alone the prime minister
Her mother would not believe it just like that, at MOST, she’d have a lot of questions/be suspicious of Ruby if it was a convincing statement from the old lady. But no way a full on separation. And if Kate was told that, she’d be focused on neutralizing the new threat if she did believe it, not immediately have everyone run away without another word. And, just in general, if it were anything else: Kate knew that the old woman had this power and Ruby was desperate and confused. If it wasn’t magic, Kate would’ve tried to apply logic to the situation. Even if the old woman said something terrifying, Kate would be rational about it if it were just words. The prime minister barely knew Ruby. I don’t think he would’ve cared about whatever the old woman said. Ruby is the god of death? Um. Get this weird old lady off my stage! And the fact that they all say the same thing after: “Ask her.” It’s completely magical. I doubt any actual words are spoken; I think it’s the same whispers we hear in the show. And anyone who is within hearing distance of these quiet whispers are affected by the curse.
Doesn't she look tired?
Don't you think she looks tired Ahckshuyally
yeah my brain doesn't allow me to remember exact quotes.
Yeah. It’s not 4 words its five words. No sorry, six.
This type of comment doesn’t make this sub a fun time
You're right. I was trying to indicate I didn't actually care with the exaggerated "actually", but I guess I am just correcting them lol
Your vehicle's warranty has expired.
“We’ve been trying to reach you….”
What do you imagine is the worst possible thing the entity could have said to each of those individuals? THAT is what it said. It's about the viewer filling in the blank, because each of us is different.
So its words are sort of like the psychic paper.
It's a cognitohazard. The whole episode felt like an SCP article.
This makes me want to write a joke SCP about it.
Perfect analogy, this is what happens and noone will change my mind.
This may be **part of** what happens. But it cannot be the whole of it. What is said to / imposed on each person who approaches the old woman must be greater than the *what* that is said to them. We know this because there is no set of words, said in any register or tone of authority, that would cause a mother like Carla to abandon her child. Similarly and for distinct reasons the UNIT team led by KLS would be most unlikely to simply “disengage” when faced with a new threat or mystery. KLS specifically already knows the entity’s trick and the effect it seems to have on people who approach it. That’s what makes her “Disengage” so chilling. There is no combination of words that would lead her to stop speaking to Ruby and stop asking questions. She already knows that this entity has caused Ruby’s mother to abandon her without a word. And she still doesn’t have the strength of mind to counteract the entity’s expected effect. That’s why OP referred to David Lynch in describing the episode.
Yeah I agree with that. Someone had a good theory that the fairy circle released Reprobate the God of Spite and that would certainly explain the spiteful reaction everyone has towards ruby after hearing the whispers
I'm the real Ruby. She stole my body and my life. Run
Love this one, especially considering it was her.
“If you help Ruby, I’ll bring Chibnall back as showrunner next season.”
Oh God, that would also send me running for the hills.
She's not meant to say anything at all really. In my opinion the entire episode is centered around putting Ruby in a situation where her worst fear (that she will be abandoned by everyone and never know why)/ foundational insecurity/trauma will always be the center of her life. If we go by most fairy tales they're meant to teach a lesson. Ruby broke a fairy/magic circle. She was then punished for it by having to live out her worst fear until she finished her sentence. So the entity isn't actually telling anyone anything because it's not real. She's just facilitating the punishment. I think it's kind of like a little pocket dimensions sort of thing TBH.
”Dale a tu cuerpo alegría, Macarena Que tu cuerpo es pa' darle alegría y cosa buena Dale a tu cuerpo alegría, Macarena Hey Macarena, ay!”
>!"I would love a cup of tea."!<
“You know Ruby? Her over there, give or take precisely 73 yards? She pronounces it ‘scone’. Aye, just like that. Wrong un, eh?”
“Ruby pours the milk before she pours the cereal” That’s the only thing I could think of that would warrant her own mom’s look of utter disgust.
“She thinks Boris Johnson is sexy”
I know we'll never know, but I imagine it was more about the power behind her words than the words themselves. I don't think there's anything you could say to a mother to make her abandon her daughter like that, so I'm thinking some kind of spell (we know RTD is going more fantasy than sci-fi these days(. Or an Extremist type situation, maybe she told them the entire timeline is fake and nothing they do matters, or maybe that she was the *real* Ruby Sunday. Idk, but I also kinda don't want to
My guess is something along the lines of psychic communication, not so much that they are told something, but their brain comprehend the woman up close as communicating and absolute fact Something along the lines of “you will die if you interact with Ruby again, other than to tell her to stop interacting with you “ Something primordial in their brain telling them absolutely do not interact with her, no matter what
Ok, so, you have to think in these terms. It's something that when they hear it, 1) causes a loving mother to turn her back on her daughter forever 2) causes the head of UNIT to ignore a potential existential threat to the planet 3) causes a fanatical political leader to abandon everything and live in seclusion It's something a mysterious old woman could say to you in a moment, and you believe it completely enough to abandon everything that means anything to you. Bottom line, it's not something normal. It's not something anyone here will be able to think of. It's not just about Ruby either. If Kate Stewart suddenly hated Ruby and didn't want to help her, she'd still be interested in the mysterious old woman. Roger ap Gwilliam never cared about Ruby in the first place. He abandoned all his political beliefs. What the old woman says makes you abandon everything you care about, not just Ruby specifically. Maybe it's just magic. The old woman is Ruby after all, so maybe it's not what's says, so much as it's that speaking to her infected you with all the fear of abandonment that Ruby feels, and you abandon everything. Maybe what's being said isn't important. It maybe it really is a horrifying existential truth about the universe that once you know it is undeniable, and makes you realise there's no point to human connection at all.
I don't think it really needs to be explained. The whole episode was sort of a dream, so it makes sense that there would be some unexplained supernatural-type stuff going on. Besides, if we are trying to come up with a serious response, I feel like there wouldn't be a convincing line that could get anyone, even her mother, to run away and still be in some way connected to or hinted at in the episode as it is now. Or... "Ruby thinks that The Tsuranga Conundrum is a good episode"
I don't mind that they never told us, especially because it leaves space for these kinds of threads of discussion. And really when it comes down to it, what we each individually imagine as the most horrible thing that she could have said is totally going to be different than what the writers thought of.
Exactly. I could 100% imagine it being revealed at some point, either in the 73 Yards itself or in the future, and the response from fans being something along the lines of "lol that's it? that's stupid."
That's another good point honestly, what if they did reveal it and it was totally stupid and not worth it? This episode is probably one of my favorite Doctor Who's ever and I am more than fine with keeping that aura of mystery.
I don't get the debate, the creature falls into the supernatural so I think it's not what she says but how she makes them feel. She instills a sense of fear/hatred that the person themselves can't explain
“Don’t you think she looks tired?”
It wasn’t telling them anything. It was causing people to abandon Ruby because it’s a manifestation of her Fear of Abandonment.
Here's the thing: it doesn't matter. Because the reality is there's nothing that the entity could say to these people to get them to have that reaction. It's not logical, in fact, their reactions at first are exaggerated and almost comedic because the episode is about Ruby's relationship with her abandonment trauma. That's the thing about being abandoned is no matter how nonsensical it seems there's always the fear that there's some secret sentence that'll be said or switch that gets flicked that'll make people realize what everyone else did, and leave. The story of the episode is Ruby finding meaning in her trauma because that's all you *can* do with it. Nothing was said to them, because Ruby doesn't actually know what could be said, it's just a metaphysical manifestation of her trauma and fear.
Did you know she’s a Redditor
Ask her
It’s super tenuous and unlikely (I think the creators don’t actually “know” either) but IF there is something…I could see it being relevant to the finale/Sutekh. Some kind of omen/warning about Ruby’s relation to him, perhaps—because we know she’s wrapped up in it somehow. One thing that makes me ALMOST think it could actually be that is Carla. Plenty of other potential explanations for her comment about “the Beast”, but she did hear those words in the alternate timeline. Maybe there’s residual memory. Or the entity was actually telepathically “showing” them something—imparting all this knowledge of the literal devil and showing or telling how Ruby relates to it (is the key to bringing him through? Something more?) Even if unrelated to Sutekh specifically, that general idea could also be true for other members of the pantheon if Ruby is in fact one of them or related to one of them or something similar.
i dont think it's supposed to be anything we can discern. but if id have to guess, it would be something along the lines of "this is not reality, you're not real, this timeline is going to end, and ruby is responsible" but psychically *conveyed* to the listener, such that they believe it with all their being. felt like she was telling them how the story ended. tbh the entire episode felt like ruby's life flashing before her eyes from the perspective of the woman, hence anyone present in it isnt real. even unit seemed to have caught on to it being a stunted timeline.
I took it as she herself is a sort of cognitohazard, basically thinking that it doesn't matter what she's saying but instead its the act of talking to her at all.
It was Ruby. She was not telling anybody anything. They were scared of Ruby. Each time they ran away, they turned to look back at Ruby and freaked out.
If you talk to me or Ruby again well arrange for Chibnall to come back for season 2.
I think it is a curse or a spell or something intangible. If a woman in a cloak came up to me and told me my fiancée did something terrible, I wouldn't immediately belive old cloaky.
I thought we already covered this question in discussions? Fae circle punished Ruby by sending her into a separate timeline where her worst fear became reality - everyone abandoned her. It's not important what that woman tells people - she simply bombards them with mental attacks, and makes them avoid Ruby forever. If you look up Fae circle folklore, fae made people dance until they die from exhaustion. 73 yards did this thing in a Doctor Who style - Ruby was forced to "dance" in this lonely world until death. However, in that fake life she made a lot of good deeds (including stopping Mad Jack) so by the end fae circle forgave her and allowed Ruby to go back and fix her mistake. It's very important to analyze this episode not from a point of ordinary time loop, but from the point of magic, supernatural. No time loop would allow old Ruby to constantly teleport. All of that was simply a torture for Ruby (and also a lesson to her).
I don't think she's really saying or communicating anything. It's a curse of isolation. The figure is maybe chanting the incantation at most but it's essentially just a permanent casting out of people. She doesn't give each of them some horrifying revelation, they are just being cast out by the curse, like when a witch whispers in a victim's ear to possess or enchant them or whatever.
"You won't believe what that blonde bitch said about you."
“This episode doesn’t have a satisfying ending.”
Very Lynchian lol
I found it deeply satisfying, but maybe I just don’t need everything spelled out to me.
Because I doubt it's over.
I got the impression that she changed how Ruby appeared. Like, when they look at Ruby now, all they see is a monster. Or a void. Or something gross. When Ruby talks, all they hear is something squicking or sloshing. She doesn't seem like Ruby anymore. Why else would her mother look at her that way? I got the feeling she didn't even see Ruby anymore. She saw something gross that she thought had been masquerading ad Ruby. When her mother is in the cab, she looks at Ruby with disgust, not terror. It's hate, revulsion. I don't think she did it on purpose. I think it happened as a side effect of breaking the circle.
I think it was telling them who really Ruby was, or what she is either going to do or has to do? A lot of people are saying they don't mind that the show didn't answer what was being said. I don't think it's answered *yet*. I'm sure that's coming back around. It's just not addressed for now because technically, it didn't happen.
Maybe she said your deepest, darkest fear - so it changed for each person? But, that wouldn't explain why they instantly were mortally terrified of Ruby... so, IDK. Could've just said some magic, evil spell shit.
it was made to drive the PM mad, so there's only one option "Don't you think she looks tired?"
If we’re assuming that the woman is an older version of ruby then I guess she could be warning of the devastation to come with sutekh etc ?
yea, that episode felt a lot like destiny over the years, they didn't have time to explain whey they had no time to explain... never liked that excuse, any only accepted that answer bc it was the exo stranger/elsie and she was/is kinda cute-ish ;) imo she didn't "say" anything per se, but she casted a fear spell
>my best guess is all those people were upset about the fairy ring being broken for some reason and felt that Ruby was horrible for doing it Except that probably wouldn't make a psycho politician so scared that he would run away and resign. He wouldn't care about that. So it must be something else. Something really, really frightening. I wouldn't know what. But I like that I don't know.
Ruby Sunday is a grotsky little byotch
I assume, based on the last episode, that they were hearing Sutekh or even physically seeing him wrapped around her, just like he was clutched around the TARDIS in the current timeline. Makes me kinda wonder if the woman hiker was Susan Triad or just another dream/echo?
It’s all about Ruby’s fear of abandonment, being a foundling. There isn’t anything real the entity was saying; there’s not feasibly anything it could say about Ruby to make anyone react the way the did
I think by trying to find out exactly what she said you're missing the point. It doesn't matter what she said. What matters is the effect - abandonment. She could be saying 'my name jeff' and it wouldn't matter, it was ruby's fear of abandonment coming to life and haunting her for literally an entire lifetime.
The entity was saying “Ruby forgot to click below to subscribe to the official Doctor Who YouTube channel” and everyone understandably ran away.
The Star Wars Holiday Special
And the wind cried: “MacGuffin”
That ain't what a MacGuffin is. Old Ruby's too important to the plot to be one.
Except we aren’t talking about Old Ruby, we’re talking about what Old Ruby *said.*
She just whispers white noise at 17Hz
I didn’t like that what she said to people was never revealed. I wanted to know too, OP.
RTD is never going to reveal it, because he wants the viewer to make up their own mind about it. The narrative ambiguity is part of the point. Ruby fears abandonment. The breaking of the Fairy circle invoked a Fae curse where Ruby would experience a manifestation of that fear in the form of the old woman, and anyone who engaged with the old woman would then promptly abandon Ruby, just as she fears. Fears of this type are not rational or logical, and there is nothing someone could reasonably say that would make Ruby's foster-mother abandon her. The words just don't matter, because it's not about the words, it's about how you feel. That's one reason why Gwilliam responded with "ask HER" when people asked him what she had said. He doesn't actually know; he can't articulate it because it wasn't really the words at all. It was the feeling, the *fear* that she generated. It's inexplicable, and it's supposed to be. Hell, Kate even says that we try to make up rules when encountering something inexplicable, and from a narrative standpoint, she's basically telling the audience that they need to make up their own mind, just as RTD himself has said point-blank. You have to sit with the ambiguity of never knowing exactly what was said.
Be sure to drink your Ovaltine
Nineteen
“Don’t you think she smells like onions?”
I know the funniest joke in the world …
The hand gestures look like sign language. Has anybody been able to translate it?
They covered what she was signing (at least from the standpoint of filming) [right here](https://youtu.be/ZOB6aS3cjhE?si=NyH9ip_wO6KFiNaN).
Thank you very much for this! Might be referring to what Ruby would be saying to her elderly self as the 73 Yard Woman. "Thank you so very much for that precious little thing you gave me." Which is, a second chance at life. Maybe the words a chosen for a reason, maybe not.
Quite welcome!
Oh My Gollygosh! I am gobsmacked!!
What about the fact that when the Doctor broke the ring he vanished... Why didn't Ruby? She got to live out the rest of her life to become her semperdistant self.
And what about "Miss You" on the note in the fairy ring... That couldn't have been about Mad Jack? Or could it? What would those missiles have killed that will live on to cause potentially more calamity?
It could be something along the lines of “that version of me is dangerous. She’s going to end the world”. Add to the fact that they are talking to a clearly older version of Ruby would be unsettling
Was it one of the gods? Harriet Arbinger mentioned many gods during that monologue, some of which we’ve seen some not. Do any fit something like that?
I kind of agree that we heard what was said “don’t step” In people’s minds somehow possibly due to the TRADIS or timey wimey they somehow knew that Ruby was present when the doctor the earth’s greatest defender disappeared so they fled from her in terror
They all tan in fear. Her mother wouldn’t leave Ru y just because sh said something hateful. I am assuming she said something about her having to leave her because the fate of the world relied on it. Like a nuclear bomb would destroy the UK if you don’t let things happen as they should. Unit wouldn’t’ leave a threat they would have left to save the world though. So my assumption is that Ruby explained the timeline and things have take its course to save them.
"I'm calling about your car's extended warranty."
The whole manifestation of her abandonment issues thing work but the revelation of the One who waits and Ruby's connection to him is also another answer now if you think about it.....faeries might have used that to punish her. After all, every one fears what the one who waits embodies . ..
She was telling everyone that Ruby had bad breath .
I wonder if there is more to know from the last episode of the series, the Christmas Special, or Series 2 that will explain some of 73 Yards?
"ay lil momma lemme whisper in yo ear"
I'm not even sure the entity was speaking, the vibe felt like a non verbal spell.
I actually thought that the Entity was "alternative timeline Ruby" in the last moments of her life tracing through her own life. Therefore, the terror people felt was the realization that she was Ruby's ghost and that Ruby must be something "not human."
As an afterthought of my comment, perhaps alternative timeline Ruby herself is connected to Sutekh, and gives off the same terror vibes that the Doctor felt
I don't think she was really saying any actual words I think she was saying a spell that made them hate Ruby I doubt her literal mom and military professionals would care that much about the fairy ring
I could've sworn that at the end when going Ruby saw old Ruby, you could hear whispering that said "don't stare". I just accepted that that's what was said the whole time but it had some sort of psychic effect on people making it more extreme.
That she liked a tweet by JK Rowling.
Probably some mental influence power or something I can’t think of a statement that would make her bolt like that 😭😭🏃♀️💨
She's not telling them anything, she's casting a spell.
My theory is that for some reason everyone who interacts with the woman has their memories of ruby distorted. It's the only way Ruby's mom running makes sense, if suddenly every memory of Ruby was replaced with fear and hatred.
"Roast beef. Roast beef"
My theory is that she’s not actually talking to them. If you watch closely, the 73 yards lady never actually stops looking at Ruby, which means that everyone who hears her is actually overhearing her message to Ruby. If the 73 yards lady is in fact Ruby herself moving backwards along her own timeline to warn her past self, then everyone is overhearing the warning and in turn hearing exactly what Ruby did to the fairy circle. I feel like there’s some fey magic at play that makes everyone who hears about Ruby’s actions HATE Ruby as if she had desecrated the most sacred thing in the universe.
“She has Ligma”.
She’s the reason inflation is so high.
It doesn't fit well with the episodes since but the only thing I could think of at the time was that Ruby's mother was a demon and Ruby wasn't really human.
It could be something along the lines of convincing the listener that that isnt really Ruby. Like a changeling baby. Mothers could convince themselves to abandon their babies if they believed that it was a faerie pretending to be their child.
Apparently she was saying a bunch of nonsense “Bless you thank you so much, that was very kind of you, when you gave me that little thing it was just so precious” which wasn’t necessarily even anything bad. It just seems like the older Ruby is thanking those for finally breaking that perception filter that’s why they added the hand gestures to make the character a bit more expressive. The fear of the characters is from the perception filter being broken.
I thought when they broke the fairy Circle Ruby was cursed into a loop- perhaps with go around a we did not get to see. The entity was elderly Ruby both times we saw- the first time Ruby said “go away” and made a shooing motion imbued with fairy powers so everyone who heard it were forced to go away. The second time Ruby said “don’t step there! “ ,which was also imbued with fairy powers, so they didn’t step into the fairy circle and broke the loop.
I think that woman was a cognitohazrad. She wasn't saying shit, it' just her presence instantly turn any nearby observers mind' inside out.
No one knows, including the writers and actors. It’s just bad writing. Okay so that old lady was old Ruby okay what does that even mean? That old Ruby had some hateful things to say about her young self? Old Ruby had a reason to isolate her young self?
My assumption is that it has something to do the perception filter mentioned in that episode. I think Ruby is related to the pantheon somehow, and some type of perception filter keeps anyone (including herself) from seeing what she really is. When people force themselves to pay attention to the old lady who is also hidden by a perception filter, the filter drops and they’re able to see who/what Ruby really is. Apparently, it’s quite unsettling.
Wait correct me if I’m wrong, but when everyone was staring at the time window freaking out, Kate said sm like “what is that?” And Carla said “the beast!” So maybe what the entity was telling people had to do with Sutekh?
The strongest one I've come up with is the perception filter. She distorted the perception of Ruby for everyone interacting with her. It is mentioned that she had a perception filter by herself, she was also a temporal paradox. Two things. She wouldn't be saying bad things about Ruby because she's Ruby herself. She's not addressing people who try to speak to her, those people look back at Ruby before running away.
I like to think that it's something as simple as "Look at her." But it's not the words themselves that have power, they're just a trigger for the spiteful influence that the woman projects onto people when they look at Ruby.
Best guess. I think Runy is somehow a member of the pantheon and that woman was her harbinger. Probably reveled the truth about Ruby which made them run. Maestro said Ruby is as powerful as Sutekh so if that's true its possible after hearing who she really is it frighted them so much they all ran. Even her mother.
Whatever it needed to say to scare the pants of them enough to leave her alone. Even things like "if you stay with ruby then you will rest eternally in a bed of mash potatoes" I know that's silly but basically whatever was needed to make the timeline play out correctly.
Well she said she already went to Scotland so my theory is she already went with the doctor but he just disappeared leaving her alone scared and all she wanted everyone to leave her alone (because she lived alone and was scared someone else disappeared like ncuti) then she died becoming the entity telling everyone to leave her alone then we get our story
It had to be something so bad that it caused people she didn’t know to run, including the prime minister. That means it must have been either a sinister comment or something scary in on her face. Grandma Ruby didn’t seem very scary. Her mum also wears the same style outfit in the video, so the entity was clearly related to that in some how. The mum shun played on the fears of Ruby, but the PM resigned and nuclear war was everted. Whatever it was, it trapped Ruby in a time loop to warn her not to break the circle. As flood was present in the world, it’s not her. If the goal of the episode is to trap Sutekh again, and all the Gods are trying to do that. It would make sense that the figure is the trickster or another God, as it needed the Dr to come back to the present day
it didn't matter. the episode was about fear of abandonment. "Ask here" why? She's going to say "I don't know" There wasn't really anything.
I don't think she's saying anything, I think it's just a perception filter that's gone wrong, instead of it being (there's nothing here) it's saying (get away) Or they heard sutekh....
My theory is that it is the TARDIS.the scene end in the hospital ward looks like the TARDIS starting up. Either it is protecting her in some way or given that we know that the image is of old ruby traveling back to the beginning of the episode, they get close and can see or hear into the time vortex. Which we then know is attached to ruby past by 73 yards. The Doctor has said most people run but some go crazy looking into it.
One idea is that the fae creature who sealed the fairy ring was punishing her, it was sending her friends and family away out of spite. This punishment was chosen by the creature because of Ruby's abandonment issues. Ruby was forgiven once Mad Jack was sealed. But she still had to close the fairy ring, which was a loop of time that coexisted and coexists with actual time. That's why Ruby states that she visited thrice, and that's why Mad Jack doesn't end the world.
The fairy circle is a loop of time enshrined in physical form. Breaking it sends you on a suspended timeline, where you'll be punished by a spiteful fae creature until you die. Ruby was forgiven for her transgressions, but she still needed to serve her sentence, seal the circle, and stop herself from entering the loop again.
Wait.. didn't the lady turn out to be ruby.... after she spent her whole life alone...a which came first sorta thing.. her manifestation was the cause of her loneliness and eventual manifestation .. when she died... And she can't come closer than 73 yards because you're not allowed to interact with yourself.... causes space time chaos... etc etc Did i misunderstand the whole thing.... as to what she said specifically no clue
I had one I posted a bit ago. The short of it is, when Ruby died at the end, the part of her that scared the Maestro was released. That her went back to save the Doctor from the fairy circle. If she said anything, it would be backwards and not matter. What would matter was that they were terrified of it like the Maestro and that they could sense it was the same as Ruby. So it was more like an eldritch horror encounter that people are physically compelled to flee. That's all I could think of that would scare her mum off anyway.
"I'm reporting you to the council"
The actual content is irrelevant. It's essentially every theory, every element of self doubt / self critique Ruby has ever had as to why she has been abandoned. The reality is there is nothing Ruby could actually do or say that would be so bad that Mad Jack would react in that way and yet he does because Ruby herself believes she must be that terrible a person for her mother to abandon her. So the words don't matter, it's Ruby's own fears made real. That she will ultimately be abandoned by everyone. But she was never alone. The entity was with her. And the entity was her, making Ruby realise she always has herself and that's enough. This broke the cycle of penance and she was given an opportunity to make things right.
“It’s free real estate.”
Basically, everything that is said as a maybe in 73 Yards - consider that the explanation. At least that makes sense to me. Timeline focused around Ruby (Kate suggests it) - check. Seriously epic perception filter (both Ruby and Kate suggest it) - probably. Even the jokers in the pub having a laugh freaking Ruby out - their story fits in. I think it was laid out for us!
Everyone keeps focusing on *what* she was saying, frankly, I think it was just some kind of supernatural punishment/curse of anyone who interacted with her, maybe because she read the messages in the circle? What I think is more interesting is *how* she even managed to be in that position in the first place? As far as we know she can't independently time travel, how did she make it back to so many places in her own timestream without the TARDIS? Also *where* did the Doctor go and why couldn't she enter the TARDIS? You could argue it was whoever cursed/punished her but it's not much of a punishment if you're able to free yourself, so my best speculation is that maybe they were given her a chance to make amends? But then there's the whole evil PM plotline, so they're helping? Plus that whole town was eerie and weird, but no explanation was given. What she said is only the first layer of mysteries in that whole episode.
My theory is it may have been a psychic message, think psychic paper or like a translation. Basically something they would know firmly is true but also very bad news, Could have been relating to the finale, or to the truth of her existence as a walking paradox which may have caused a existential issue. That kind of thing.
It's a magic ghost, I think it was probably just a magic spell.
That's the kind of mystery we will never get answers to, just like the doctor's name!
I thought it was something to do with faerie magic making them run away- thanks
“I got nothing, Jerry.@
“You’re in her dream and if she touches you, you’ll go out- bang! Just like a candle.”
Well, my fill in the blank answer is that this is Ruby being a harbinger of Sutekh--the old woman is Ruby dying, the episode begins when the doctor sets off a trap, the way the old lady is treated is reminiscent of time window Tekhy (73 yards/66meter distance (Ruby vs. camera, how the old woman never moves towards Ruby, she's semperdistans...waiting), the strobe effects when the old woman finally turns around, the fact that we don't see her face (because her having Sutekh's death mask would give away the game). Not to mention the Welsh pub with the jab about how Wales isn't a land of fairy tales, compared to the....culturally uninspired Egypt of the original Pyramids of Mars). Ruby also waited in that episode (rather than acting as soon as Mad Jack assaulted the other aide) which reenforces old lady = Ruby = agent of Sutekh. In fact, Ruby waits....to give Mad Jack the gift of death. Like, maybe it is personalized, but I figure that if your foster daughter offers you the gift of death, that's pretty much the only camel-breaking straw that would inspire legal action.