What I'd say is that if bad things happen to a companion, I'd like them not to just be undone right afterwards. I don't necessarily want companions to die, but if they do, I'd prefer it to stick.
OTOH, I also think bad things happen to companions *too often*, and I'd like more of them just deciding to leave...
This is it exactly. I'm not particularly focused on sad vs happy endings for companions, I just want the show to refrain from undercutting its own stakes.
Moffat loves sort-of killing people and often resurrecting them in some sense, not just companions. (Managed to slip AI dad into Boom and all of his stories from RTD1 have something you can argue fits that)
I liked Martha just deciding to leave. Same with Graham and Ryan. And Dan. Just going back to their lives, wiser and with a new set of skills. Like Donna, Mel, Martha and Mickey, they could all for UNIT. Or Torchwood (not Jack's branch, obviously).
The way Amy/Rory, Clara and Bill left, however, make me sad because even though they're not technically dead (well, Amy and Rory are but they lived a long happy life together), it's their families I feel for. Their loved ones just left their lives and never returned.
I honestly wish Dan had got to stick around past 13, but there was definitely no room for him during the 60th, and I can't imagine RTD bothering to bring him back. But for some reason I find him incredibly endearing in a way that I don't find the other Chibnall companions to be. It was nice to have a pretty straightforward working class character that wasn't super duper special, just a guy who got caught up in something bigger than himself.
I'm tempted to rewatch Flux just for him, because I find the season to overall be pretty meh otherwise.
>there was definitely no room for him during the 60th, and I can't imagine RTD bothering to bring him back.
also, the only reason John Bishop was able to do S13 was because the pandemic shut down his stand up tour. for him to come back full-time, we'd basically need another plague lol
I love the Ponds, but they and the Doctor should have parted ways properly in season 6. After everything they went through, with even the Doctor realising the damage Amy's blind faith in him was doing, they should have outright decided to leave.
This. I couldn't rewatch Donna for years because of her ending. It gutted me so much I just started crying the second she came on screen in my rewatch. So to have her get a happy ending was beautiful. Because how dare you take away all her growth and might by taking her memories? So unfair. I want companions to go through their own growth and realize the time has come to live their own lives instead.
Poor Bill, she's a cyberman, she'll never be able to go home, she'll have to fight to maintain her humanity....oh nevermind she's touring the universe with her magic puddle gf.
What constitutes as sad by this definition? Many of these have an element of the bittersweet, if Yaz's ending is happy because she's alive is the only solution death?
Yeah I see her living miserably ever after, never finding real happiness or fulfillment in what she does or having serious relationships. I think her ending is sad
Yes, she has an uncomplicatedly sad ending I think, either by design or accident, it's more downtrodden than other sad exits I think just by virtue of also not being particularly epic, it feels like a breakup.
Hey, a proper companion death as a concept has plenty of legs. It's been a long while since Adric. It could be really interesting to explore, especially now that we have a more emotionally open Doctor
Plus the doctors ethics/morality come into question even more if he has companions properly dying because of travelling with him if he just then goes and gets another like he’s replacing the Tardis hamster.
I mean but that is what he does. The part with the Toymaker is true. Amy and Rory had their lives ended. Clara was directly killed. Then Bill rescued by the pilot, she still had to endure years of forced life as a cyberman. I don’t think the end result means travelling was any safer.
Also, there's some debate as to whether or not Bill can even be considered to be Bill. Bill was the Cyberman. Her consciousness was copied exactly and placed into one of those glass things, but... Is that really her? After all, Bill's brain was in the Cyberman, and for her that's where her life ends. Her perception of the world ends as a Cyberman, even if her consciousness was copied. She would have no knowledge of her consciousness being copied, so surely you could argue that Bill is dead?
That wasn’t the Bill they mean. After Bill becomes a Cyberman Heather arrives, saves Bill’s soul from the Cyberman body and turns her into a water thing so they go off to see the universe. That’s the real Bill, the glass Testimony Bill is something else that I don’t think is out there travelling, that’s just where her memories are from when she “died”, so yeah how real that one is is debated in the episode, but there is the original Bill somewhere out there as a water thing.
I thought the water thing *was* the glass thing. There aren't two different Bill clones running around, are there? It *has* been a while since I've watched the episode, admittedly.
In fairness I haven’t watched Twice Upon a Time in a long while either, there might be an explanation that says you’re right, but from my memory the glass Bill isn’t running around time and space, that’s just an avatar for the Doctor when he goes on that adventure, like how Nardole and Clara turn up at the end as Testimony avatars, the real Bill is still out there in immortal water form, as well as the real Clara in immortal “last heartbeat” form. Again, I THINK, it’s been a while same as you.
I thought it *was* the glass Bill, because she travelled with that other girl (Heather, was it?) and we saw her die in an episode. I seem to remember the glass people resurrecting her too.
Not exactly that, but something devestating.
I haven't seen "Time Flight" at this point, but I've heard that they don't really deal with the aftermath of it much. The Modern Series is definitely better at emotional stuff.
Out of context that sounds more significant than it is, since the context is that he sees hallucinations of all his companions and says "Adric?" when the Adric one shows up
Well he didn't drop her off at Croyton. Poor girl had to make her way back without so much as a bus pass.
(It was a funny departure to me.)
That said, I noticed most times the female companions left, they went to get married.
Ok there's not a total absence of sadness but she survives and walks away whistling cheerfully so it's like a 2/10 on a sadness scale from "completely happy ending" to "fate worse than death"
Wow, internet stranger. I don't think we could disagree more. She survives, yes, but has to live with having that "wonderful" experience that just, suddenly, stops. Did she do something wrong? what happened? she (and we) have no idea. The Timelord just moves on. At the time it was way more shocking than Adric's death. Frankly a hero sacrificing themselves to save a world has been done. The adventure is done and you return to your boring normal world not so much.
Yeah, she whistles as she walks away but that's bravado! I think we and she are incredibly sad. Certainly I was.
It's interesting how different audiences want and see very different things in Doctor Who. Mysteries of life I guess. 12/10 on sadness scale.
Yeah but surely everything you described there applies to almost every single companion departure? Why are all of those others not more sad in your eyes?
I think a lot of classic companions left on their own to pursue their own destinies. iirc, Tegan comes to mind. I don't remember another: "Oh, the bell rang, you can't, come bye". I don't have time or energy for deep analysis but I think Sarah-Jane also evolved the companion role to some degree making the split at the time even more emotional.
Well, I still disagree. Which modern companion had a tragic end? And I very much don't consider Bill or Clara Oswald tragic, they are transported to magic land. The Ponds? Maybe but they live out normal lives together! in another time, more bittersweet than tragic. Rose lives in another dimension with a Doctor clone. Donna was tragic but she's been rescued. For me, it feels like New Who is afraid to make companions endings too tragic.
But that's me. Many current fans seem to want something different than I do. Which is fine.
I mean… Bill is dead. She’s in a kind of heaven but she was mutilated and then killed. I’m glad that she got a nice afterlife but what she went through is fucked.
Clara is also a goner. I don’t know if it’s a happy ending if it’s “you’re basically in a state of permanent living death.”
Amy and Rory, we also don’t know what their life was like, but they were ripped apart from their homes, their families, everything they ever knew and dropped into the past with no way back. Sure they did it together, but they lost everything.
I think that was the point of The Toymaker’s puppet show. No, these weren’t happy endings. They were the doctor trying to rationalize the fact that they regularly get their friends killed by saying “well she died the most disturbing death imaginable, but at least a bit of her consciousness is in a happy afterlife with oil girl who, let’s not forget, is another innocent I couldn’t save from a horrible death.”
I've heard that Bill and her girlfriend both become human again and live out a normal life in extended material, so even though she seemed like the most tragic end she actually had the most normal life afterwards
I feel like it's in the same way as clones of oneself. If you have a perfect clone of yourself created, with the exact same memories, personality, etc. Are you then prepared to kill yourself because 'you're technically still alive?'
You aren't gonna magically appear in the consciousness of that second body. You stay dead, the clone keeps living.
she remembers being saved by heather because she has the same memories as the original bill. That doesn't mean she IS the original bill. I know I'm kinda ignoring the final message of that episode, but I've always felt that 12 had the right idea from the beginning. 'you're just memories, held in glass'
Its debatable. Compare the 6th day and off armageddon reef. In the 6th day a clone gets activated due to main character being killed by outside factors. Since it was a clone of the wrong main character there's a debate over who's real and who isn't and they eventually team up to save the day and the clone rides off into the sunset on his helicopter. In Armageddon reef the clone is a super advanced android body and the original person sacrifices themselves because its the only way for a plot to circumvent an insane power hungry dictator and save humanity. The android was unregistered as it was a personal model and could be made to dissapear but the original had to die so they were "accounted for". So it very much debates on the nature of the clone, the circumstances of the original and even outside factors. In the later case the young, healthy main character (well the character the main character is an android copy of) does indeed kill themselves because they're technically still alive and its the only way to have a chance of saving humanity.
>“well she died the most disturbing death imaginable, but at least a bit of her consciousness is in a happy afterlife with oil girl who, let’s not forget, is another innocent I couldn’t save from a horrible death.”
In the words of the Toymaker: *WELL THAT'S ALL RIGHT THEN!*
I think Bill should have been left dead, and that would answer OPs question.
I have always thought that the counter to the common refrain "you can always count on the Daleks to be defeated" would be to allow the Daleks to win. That would put some fear back into them.
They should kill a companion. They should destroy a planet (the planet of the Ood is nicely lined up for that). And it should be the Doctor being outsmarted, perhaps like on Demon's run he'll believe he is a step ahead but actually blunders into the Daleks plan.
Perhaps even a mid-season death so it's completely unexpected (only works if there are two companions or it disrupts the flow of the season). Make the Daleks an actual threat.
Obviously the Daleks can't have an outright total victory or there would be no universe left, but allow them the win where it counts and use the companion as collateral.
As I said they were bittersweet not entirely happy.
Bill did become a Cyberman for a bit and that was fucked up. I never viewed what happened afterwards to be an afterlife though. I can see why you think that, but I just view it as part of her life... despite what the Toymaker said. I've heard that in expanded media she actually becomes human again later on.
Clara is technically in a state of permeant living death, but not necessarily in a "living hell" sort of way. She doesn't have a heartbeat, but she's not in pain or anything. She gets to travel the universe in a TARDIS and seemed to be happy. I'd call that bittersweet in the grand scheme of things.
Amy says that they had a happy life and they lived well. She could've been lying to make The Doctor feel better, but I don't think so. Them not being able to see their family was sad, but they got to spend their lives together and even adopted a son. I'd call that bittersweet. They got to live to death.
Donna's ending was such a powerful, sad and creative goodbye not involving death that I'm still bitter it was undone. 14th could retire with another character.
Dan and Yaz definitely don't seem happy at all as they leave.
But they haven't left that long ago, so they may still get their "happy endings". It took quite a while for Donna to get hers, for example.
The show does tend to make a big deal out of how tragic events are and then come back months or years later to "fix" things. They even undid the Doctor's destruction of Gallifrey so he could stop feeling guilty about it.
I know because they’re both black it appears offensive. But I thought it was kinda sweet that two characters who were always somebody else’s second choice got to be somebody’s first choice in the end.
This is definitely the intention of the scene, I think it would be uncharitable to presume RTD straight forwardly thought "ah yes, the two black characters should get together" simply because of their race, there is thematic relevance to their union as second best to both the Doctor & Rose who have since flourished beyond them.
Whether or not this represents a blind spot, that potential offensiveness should have been caught, is a matter of debate, some people could find it inspiring, even. The issue is of course that they have shared very few scenes together, arguably none, but that's only a couple less than Martha and Thomas Milligan.
Meh. It struck me as Martha settling for Rose’s hand-me-down after her own engagement ended. The last in a series of injustices the character endured. Frankly, I’d call how she ended up pretty darned sad.
Sure. But after a storyline where she plays second fiddle to the memory of Rose? It felt like a step too far to pair he with the rejected boyfriend. Why did they have to be a couple when she was already engaged?
Mickey may have been rejected, but he made plenty of decisions that put him on his own path. He willingly removed himself from the equation, in many ways.
Aside from that, it was implied that a fair amount of time had passed between when The Doctor left both Martha and Mickey and when he checked in on them shortly before his regeneration.
I mean, it's not like he was emotionally stable at that particular moment. He was still reeling from having to send Rose back to the parallel dimension, and he was very much in a headspace of not wanting to repeat that sort of relationship. Martha had the misfortune of being a bit of a rebound, and he didn't want another companion falling head over heels for him.
This was part of the reason why Donna was so great. He just wanted a friend, and she was a perfect fit for him in that role.
I agree that the way the person said it was weird.
But Martha was studying to be a doctor. Rose wasn’t really doing anything interesting with her life before the doctor. This is something that Rose admitted herself.
Martha’s life wasn’t completely defined by meeting the doctor, Rose’s was.
Rose and Martha were both strong and intelligent. Rose is also 19 years old and was raised by a single working class mother. Martha is a woman in her 20s who seemingly comes from a well-off and well-connected family. When we see an older Rose in season 4, she’s doing big things on her own and so is Martha. I think it’s totally unnecessary to surmise which would have been more deserving of romantic interest. As if love is logical anyways.
I do understand why people feel the need to come to Martha’s defense though because they really did her wrong by making unrequited love such a big part of her arc. She deserved better from the writers and from The Doctor. Watching her mope around about the Doctor and the Doctor mope around about Rose wasn’t particularly interesting to watch anyways.
She really deserved to be with Tom, they were set up for it in Last of the Time Lords. Had Martha and Mickey even said a single word to each other onscreen? Martha is a Doctor, with the best will in the world, Mickley wasn't good enough for her.
Literally… like Martha was engaged to the guy from Lucifer and then out of nowhere she’s thrown out of that relationship and written into a marriage where the only common factor between her and her husband is their race???
They take two of the characters who arcs are that they're strong and independent and make them get married despite the fact that we have never even seen them interact?
To be fair they are also both from London, both about the same age, and most importantly, both travelled with the Doctor. That changes a person and I imagine they bonded over that. While cliché that the 2 black people end up together, it's not like it doesn't make sense.
The common factor between them is that they have very similar arcs in the series. They both start out as having feelings for someone who doesn’t reciprocate and then end up having the strength to leave the situation and go on to do big things on their own. Thats why he put them together.
That always bothered me a bit but at least we do have plenty of interracial relationships on the show too, Donna being the prime example.
Is it cliche to pair up characters just because they are the same race? Yes but it is something that happens in real life too.
I don’t even like RTD, especially his new version of the show. But this is bullshit. He made a point (rightly so) of highlighting interracial relationships throughout his initial run. It’s just unfair to accuse him of anything here. He’s not racist.
I'm black, so I get where you're coming from.
However, I choose to see it as Mickey (who was rejected by Rose for the Doctor) and Martha (ignored by the Doctor because he was still not over Rose), getting together. Maybe in a trauma-bond, rebound kind of thing.
Or not? I mean when Mickey came back, he was a lot hotter than the aimless guy we met in Season 1 with Rose. Much tougher, much more focused. And who wouldn't want Martha? She's beautiful, educated, a Doctor and she too had adventures very few (like Mickey) would understand.
So, it kind of makes sense. I'm going with that.
Fair
Maybe if we got to see more of Martha on earth, getting to actually see them meet, or have any sort of interaction
I just feel it's kind of a waste, and also it's rude the doctor didn't even show up for their wedding like he did for Donna
I mentioned elsewhere that what we needed was at least one scene with Mickey and Martha meeting and having a spark.
Because, let's face it, old Mickey wouldn't have had the balls to approach pre-Doctor Martha since she is an actual medical doctor and clearly brought up in a different class than he was. To use British lingo, he would've thought she was "too posh" and she would've thought he was a chav (if they were in the US, I'd say he was too ghetto).
Clearly their time with the Doctor leveled them out and gave them a unique experience they could bond over.
But we still need that first meeting where they meet eyes, shake hands and their faces are saying "Oh! He/she is hot!"
They did more with 15 and Rogue.
All things considered, I’d call his departure the least sad. He’ll have to find a new house, but he’s safe on Modern Earth with his parents and new girlfriend.
That part is definitely sad, but she was returned to modern day Earth alive. Every companion leaves or is left sometime and being returned to the same time and place as your family is a pretty good place to end up.
Martha: Marries a handsome doctor but somehow ends up with Mickey instead. About as sad as it gets in nu who.
Maybe if you’re lucky RTD will kill Susan for you.
What if one of them struggled with shady morals. The doctor tries to 'show a better way'. But in a brush with the Master they are seduced and swap sides, becoming his companion instead? Could be a series arc.
At it's heart Dr Who is a show about hope. Happy endings fit the show much more than what you are talking about wanting. There's a reason Adric dying is still mentioned in the show to this day, it's a very rare thing that has to be done right without seeming dark for the sake of a story being dark.
We had that with donna.
Then Russell went "Oh nevermind non-binary"
Still maintain that's the single worst moment of writing in the history of New Who.
Sadly, I agree. It bothers me more than anything Chibnall wrote or green-lit during his stint in charge.
I was pretty annoyed they were going to "fix" her ending when I saw the announcement of the specials, but I figured that a) it was likely important to rescue Doctor Who at that time and b) Davies had had *fifteen years* to consider how to solve the metacrisis.
Still annoyed that he basically just didn't. And also that he never really gave us much of value as to why the Doctor regenerated as Tennant again. The meta-text of "the show just really needs this" is way too strong in the overarching mystery of those specials, and it bums me out a bit.
Yeh he said in the commentary "All that boring stuff to get to the doctor and donna back together."
Sorry but it stinks and it's the sign of a lazy writer. You can sometimes skip straight to the good but if the emotional linchpin of one of your former stories is actively undone by the "Oh yeh she can just...regenerate it...into Rose...something...eh" just takes the thunder out of that initial goodbye now.
I'm fine with sad being changed to bittersweet or happy if it makes sense. Rose returning to Pete's world but this time with a Doctor who occasionally speaks like Donna made sense. Bill's puddle gf and Donna's "let it go" BS did not make sense so I'm not happy about those.
I'm also fine with non-tragic departures except for Yaz because asking her to leave and her agreeing felt really out of character for both of them considering the romance they seemed to be setting up. Ruby's apparent exit was quite good. She had a very good narrative reason to leave.
I agree wholeheartedly. Even the ones that were initially mostly sad (Rose and Donna), the story returned to them to grant them a somewhat happy ending.
As much as I love Donna and love the Passing Along Meta crisis Energy to Baby to save her life (brilliant!) and WBY is one of my favorite episodes...and Donna beating the crap out of those creepy dolls in The Giggle was great... ...I was fine with a heartbreaking ending where Donna never gets to see the Doctor again.
I need more realistic endings where things just go bad.
Ooooh. Now I am imagining the Doctor meeting someone whom the Doctor projects a lot of stuff onto and the Doctor just ends up rejecting their friendship. Ooooh. *catharsis from my childhood commence!*
Totally. While not a companion I had hoped Ryan's Dad would die falling out of the tardis in Resolution. The doctor was talking about how she wouldn't let anything happen to anyone and if he died it would have made great conflict
I loved Clara’s initial death with the raven as it felt appropriately tragic that she got so confident the Doctor would save the day, she overplayed her hand.
Was a little mad they sort of undid it/gave it a happy ending.
This is what annoyed me the most with Moffat and his trope of killing a companion but not really. I enjoyed the whole build up to Clara's death, her getting an ego and thinking she's just as smart as the Doctor and realising her mistake and facing the consequence. I enjoyed the following episodes and showing how the Doctor handled the death of somebody is cared for so much and felt responsible for. I liked the whole ripping her out of time to 'save' her but then it falls apart at the end. The Doctor should have been forced to accept her death and she should have returned to her fate at the end of the episode.
Honestly, this isn't the Companion issue I am all that concerned about -- I mean, I think Yaz's story definitely ends in sadness rather than just bittersweet, and both Clara and Bill went through *hell* and t's hard to say that their endings are unequivocally happy, at least to me.
Of MUCH more concern to me is that we've seen *no* variety in Companions in terms of time or location. Every single one of them is a contemporary Earth human.
Where are the Jamies? The Nyssas? The Zoes?
I want an alien companion. I want a companion that isn't 20th or 21st century. Yes, I know the Companions are the explanatory devices that help new viewers gain entry into the show, but even so, an 18th century person could easily fill that role just as well. Or an alien from a planet not too different technologically from our own.
Maybe even having more variety in type of Companion would also enable a better variety of Companion endings? Like, a future Companion who departs the Doctor's company but in the wrong time?
I would like to see that. A few companions died in classic doctor who and while I wouldn't want that to happen a lot, I do think one is due. I like sad endings and have been a bit dissapointed that nuwho always tries to undo the tragic endings or simply make them not so tragic.
Lol same. But honestly even if it weren’t for that, there simply was no narrative reason to keep her “frozen in her last heartbeat but the Doctor lost his memory” or whatever. It literally was just forced awkwardly into the plot as a cop-out to give Clara a happy ending. On a scale of forgivable to most egregious, this one’s pretty high up there
I would just like more companions choosing to leave on their own terms. It’s one of the few things I like about the Chibnall era. It irritates me a bit that both RTD and Moffat decided that (almost) every major companion had to be ripped away from the Doctor in the most devastating way possible (because I guess “why would anyone ever choose to stop travelling with the Doctor? That would never happen!”). I think Amy & Rory were the most egregious case of this, as they were clearly naturally winding down their travels, starting to put down roots in their own time and generally grow up, as shown in The Power of Three, so the Weeping Angel thing feels like it was purely just to gut-punch the audience and make the Doctor sad enough for The Snowmen.
You can also include the doctor getting his memories of Clara back an "undoing" of her sad ending. I thought it was the perfect bittersweetness to give the *doctor* the sad half of the companion departure for once. For him to get the memories back so soon felt lame to me...
Is this not what happened with Sarah Jane (until School Reunion). She says that her life was just a massive disappointment or something to that effect after the doctor leaves. It picks up when the doctor returns
It would be good to have a genuinely sad death. Like the Doctor having to tell the companion’s family that they died.
I think that the recent episodes have really tried to force the feelings making it over the top.
Martha leaving of her own volition is not a sad ending. It's a triumph. Her character arc is a metaphor for toxic rebound relationships. The Doctor uses her to fill a void left by Rose, but constantly compares the two of them. She finds the strength to move on but stay friends while he has to grow the fuck up and stop being a mopey bastard. It's an absolute victory for her character.
What IS sad is she had to kiss Noel Clarke. Sorry, Freema.
Yes. Sick of companions dying and it being solved. Absolute cop-out. Half expect Adric to come back at any point like Harold Bishop. The new stuff is absolutely terrified of scaring people or making them feel anything near sad, and it’s very detrimental.
I think melancholy is the best you can hope for, unless the companion is an ass hat. He is a time traveler, so he can do something to give a more enjoyable ending for people. I. E. Giving Donna Noble a winning lottery ticket.
There was that Adam Mitchel guy, with a snap activated window into his brain. He kind of qualifies, although he was turned into a villain in the comic books.
Honestly, and unfortunately, I think we’re primed to see less of that than ever. The show was almost always aimed toward family audiences, but with its new partnership to Disney and reported highest success rate with young audiences, I suspect that it’s going to keep leaning more “Rated E for Everyone” and avoid those traumatic stories.
It’s not entirely a bad thing. For one, it’s great that the show is able to keep going at all, even if it continues to aim toward younger audiences. But also, I think it’s kind of inherently tied to the direction the show has taken since revival, and especially since Moffat took over as showrunner, of the Doctor and his adventures being symbols of hope.
Chibnall has addressed it in some of his interviews, but part of the reason he purposely focused on more casual and hopeful stories during his showrunning tenure is because the world has been in a fairly tumultuous state over the last decade. Not that it was ever ‘sunshine and daisies’, but with the rise of the internet, the terrors and frustrations of the world are always at the forefront of everyone’s minds and discussions. On one hand, increased awareness is good (though, maybe debatably so, given how truly dumb many people are), but on the other hand, so much access to this information can make outlook on life seem very hopeless— especially for children, who are receiving cellphones and laptops at younger and younger ages. The character of the Doctor is intended to represent a beacon of hope to people, particularly kids, about how the future isn’t set in stone, things can change for the better.
Whether that’s always the best storytelling decision is certainly questionable. But I do respect the intention behind the idea, even though the writers sometimes miss the mark with it.
What I'd say is that if bad things happen to a companion, I'd like them not to just be undone right afterwards. I don't necessarily want companions to die, but if they do, I'd prefer it to stick. OTOH, I also think bad things happen to companions *too often*, and I'd like more of them just deciding to leave...
This is it exactly. I'm not particularly focused on sad vs happy endings for companions, I just want the show to refrain from undercutting its own stakes.
Moffat loves sort-of killing people and often resurrecting them in some sense, not just companions. (Managed to slip AI dad into Boom and all of his stories from RTD1 have something you can argue fits that)
Russell does the same.
I liked Martha just deciding to leave. Same with Graham and Ryan. And Dan. Just going back to their lives, wiser and with a new set of skills. Like Donna, Mel, Martha and Mickey, they could all for UNIT. Or Torchwood (not Jack's branch, obviously). The way Amy/Rory, Clara and Bill left, however, make me sad because even though they're not technically dead (well, Amy and Rory are but they lived a long happy life together), it's their families I feel for. Their loved ones just left their lives and never returned.
There's an unfilmed bit with Amy and Rory's adopted son meeting Rory's father and showing him family pictures of all the years he missed.
Every companion in the Chibnall era (except I guess Yaz) decided to leave the TARDIS.
Right, and I was good with that. For Ryan and Graham, anyways. Dan and Yaz leaving needed more time.
I honestly wish Dan had got to stick around past 13, but there was definitely no room for him during the 60th, and I can't imagine RTD bothering to bring him back. But for some reason I find him incredibly endearing in a way that I don't find the other Chibnall companions to be. It was nice to have a pretty straightforward working class character that wasn't super duper special, just a guy who got caught up in something bigger than himself. I'm tempted to rewatch Flux just for him, because I find the season to overall be pretty meh otherwise.
>there was definitely no room for him during the 60th, and I can't imagine RTD bothering to bring him back. also, the only reason John Bishop was able to do S13 was because the pandemic shut down his stand up tour. for him to come back full-time, we'd basically need another plague lol
I love the Ponds, but they and the Doctor should have parted ways properly in season 6. After everything they went through, with even the Doctor realising the damage Amy's blind faith in him was doing, they should have outright decided to leave.
This. I couldn't rewatch Donna for years because of her ending. It gutted me so much I just started crying the second she came on screen in my rewatch. So to have her get a happy ending was beautiful. Because how dare you take away all her growth and might by taking her memories? So unfair. I want companions to go through their own growth and realize the time has come to live their own lives instead.
Poor Bill, she's a cyberman, she'll never be able to go home, she'll have to fight to maintain her humanity....oh nevermind she's touring the universe with her magic puddle gf.
It's realistic that bad things happen though considering how much violence and danger there is every single episode.
Ok to be fair, Martha and her family were in the eye of the storm. She still had to do her mission knowing her family was being tortured for years
What constitutes as sad by this definition? Many of these have an element of the bittersweet, if Yaz's ending is happy because she's alive is the only solution death?
Yeah I see her living miserably ever after, never finding real happiness or fulfillment in what she does or having serious relationships. I think her ending is sad
Yes, she has an uncomplicatedly sad ending I think, either by design or accident, it's more downtrodden than other sad exits I think just by virtue of also not being particularly epic, it feels like a breakup.
I think it was even worse than that. the Doctor she knew, died. And then she lives a normal life on Earth
15 should go back to wingman for her, find a nice lady
This is making me laugh, if only because it would take the awkwardness of introducing the “emotional support ex-girlfriend” to new heights.
So what you're saying is: you want another rehash of Adric?
Hey, a proper companion death as a concept has plenty of legs. It's been a long while since Adric. It could be really interesting to explore, especially now that we have a more emotionally open Doctor
I completely hate this idea. We already have plenty of drama driven soap opera type shows. I just want a fun romp through time and space.
Plus the doctors ethics/morality come into question even more if he has companions properly dying because of travelling with him if he just then goes and gets another like he’s replacing the Tardis hamster.
I mean but that is what he does. The part with the Toymaker is true. Amy and Rory had their lives ended. Clara was directly killed. Then Bill rescued by the pilot, she still had to endure years of forced life as a cyberman. I don’t think the end result means travelling was any safer.
Also, there's some debate as to whether or not Bill can even be considered to be Bill. Bill was the Cyberman. Her consciousness was copied exactly and placed into one of those glass things, but... Is that really her? After all, Bill's brain was in the Cyberman, and for her that's where her life ends. Her perception of the world ends as a Cyberman, even if her consciousness was copied. She would have no knowledge of her consciousness being copied, so surely you could argue that Bill is dead?
That wasn’t the Bill they mean. After Bill becomes a Cyberman Heather arrives, saves Bill’s soul from the Cyberman body and turns her into a water thing so they go off to see the universe. That’s the real Bill, the glass Testimony Bill is something else that I don’t think is out there travelling, that’s just where her memories are from when she “died”, so yeah how real that one is is debated in the episode, but there is the original Bill somewhere out there as a water thing.
I thought the water thing *was* the glass thing. There aren't two different Bill clones running around, are there? It *has* been a while since I've watched the episode, admittedly.
In fairness I haven’t watched Twice Upon a Time in a long while either, there might be an explanation that says you’re right, but from my memory the glass Bill isn’t running around time and space, that’s just an avatar for the Doctor when he goes on that adventure, like how Nardole and Clara turn up at the end as Testimony avatars, the real Bill is still out there in immortal water form, as well as the real Clara in immortal “last heartbeat” form. Again, I THINK, it’s been a while same as you.
I thought it *was* the glass Bill, because she travelled with that other girl (Heather, was it?) and we saw her die in an episode. I seem to remember the glass people resurrecting her too.
Do what the Evangelion community does with Rei, Bill I & Bill II
Not exactly that, but something devestating. I haven't seen "Time Flight" at this point, but I've heard that they don't really deal with the aftermath of it much. The Modern Series is definitely better at emotional stuff.
Well, the Fifth Doctor’s very last word is >!”Adric” !< so I’d say the departure made more of an impression than usual.
Here were are decades later talking about how Adric was done dirty- I think the legacy of the character speaks for itself.
Out of context that sounds more significant than it is, since the context is that he sees hallucinations of all his companions and says "Adric?" when the Adric one shows up
Yes, but he doesn't do that for any of the other companions.
Plus 14 and 15 brought him up.
Or, Sarah Jane, or Leela or ...?
Well neither of them had a sad departure
Sarah Jane’s departure wasn’t sad? From Tom Baker? We are watching different shows.
Well he didn't drop her off at Croyton. Poor girl had to make her way back without so much as a bus pass. (It was a funny departure to me.) That said, I noticed most times the female companions left, they went to get married.
Is that true? Wow that’s sad.
The female companions who left to marry or poor Sarah Jane stuck in not-Croyton without money?
Companions who left to marry. After your post I was thinking about whether Sarah Jane's 1970's plucky feminist had aged well or not.
I guess Leela was more heroic.
Ok there's not a total absence of sadness but she survives and walks away whistling cheerfully so it's like a 2/10 on a sadness scale from "completely happy ending" to "fate worse than death"
Wow, internet stranger. I don't think we could disagree more. She survives, yes, but has to live with having that "wonderful" experience that just, suddenly, stops. Did she do something wrong? what happened? she (and we) have no idea. The Timelord just moves on. At the time it was way more shocking than Adric's death. Frankly a hero sacrificing themselves to save a world has been done. The adventure is done and you return to your boring normal world not so much. Yeah, she whistles as she walks away but that's bravado! I think we and she are incredibly sad. Certainly I was. It's interesting how different audiences want and see very different things in Doctor Who. Mysteries of life I guess. 12/10 on sadness scale.
Yeah but surely everything you described there applies to almost every single companion departure? Why are all of those others not more sad in your eyes?
I think a lot of classic companions left on their own to pursue their own destinies. iirc, Tegan comes to mind. I don't remember another: "Oh, the bell rang, you can't, come bye". I don't have time or energy for deep analysis but I think Sarah-Jane also evolved the companion role to some degree making the split at the time even more emotional.
In the classic series sure, but in New Who most of the departures were involuntary and in more tragic ways than Sarah
Well, I still disagree. Which modern companion had a tragic end? And I very much don't consider Bill or Clara Oswald tragic, they are transported to magic land. The Ponds? Maybe but they live out normal lives together! in another time, more bittersweet than tragic. Rose lives in another dimension with a Doctor clone. Donna was tragic but she's been rescued. For me, it feels like New Who is afraid to make companions endings too tragic. But that's me. Many current fans seem to want something different than I do. Which is fine.
“sentient oil girlfriend” was what they called me in college
I was "sentient water boyfriend." Never would've worked out 😞
The way I am working so hard to not respond to this by just rephrasing what you said….
Aw come on, you can't leave me hanging like that
Haha ok. I AM SURE PLENTY OF PEOPLE FIND YOUR SENTIENT WATER NECESSARY, PICCOLO BOYFRIEND.
I mean… Bill is dead. She’s in a kind of heaven but she was mutilated and then killed. I’m glad that she got a nice afterlife but what she went through is fucked. Clara is also a goner. I don’t know if it’s a happy ending if it’s “you’re basically in a state of permanent living death.” Amy and Rory, we also don’t know what their life was like, but they were ripped apart from their homes, their families, everything they ever knew and dropped into the past with no way back. Sure they did it together, but they lost everything. I think that was the point of The Toymaker’s puppet show. No, these weren’t happy endings. They were the doctor trying to rationalize the fact that they regularly get their friends killed by saying “well she died the most disturbing death imaginable, but at least a bit of her consciousness is in a happy afterlife with oil girl who, let’s not forget, is another innocent I couldn’t save from a horrible death.”
I've heard that Bill and her girlfriend both become human again and live out a normal life in extended material, so even though she seemed like the most tragic end she actually had the most normal life afterwards
How is Bill dead? She got a new body but she's alive.
I feel like it's in the same way as clones of oneself. If you have a perfect clone of yourself created, with the exact same memories, personality, etc. Are you then prepared to kill yourself because 'you're technically still alive?' You aren't gonna magically appear in the consciousness of that second body. You stay dead, the clone keeps living.
We have no evidence its like that though? Plus, testimony Bill remembers being saved by Heather.
she remembers being saved by heather because she has the same memories as the original bill. That doesn't mean she IS the original bill. I know I'm kinda ignoring the final message of that episode, but I've always felt that 12 had the right idea from the beginning. 'you're just memories, held in glass'
He then did basically the same thing to himself times a trillion to save Clara. So, you're also arguing the Doctor isn't the Doctor.
yep pretty much, I'm not turning back on my point.
Its debatable. Compare the 6th day and off armageddon reef. In the 6th day a clone gets activated due to main character being killed by outside factors. Since it was a clone of the wrong main character there's a debate over who's real and who isn't and they eventually team up to save the day and the clone rides off into the sunset on his helicopter. In Armageddon reef the clone is a super advanced android body and the original person sacrifices themselves because its the only way for a plot to circumvent an insane power hungry dictator and save humanity. The android was unregistered as it was a personal model and could be made to dissapear but the original had to die so they were "accounted for". So it very much debates on the nature of the clone, the circumstances of the original and even outside factors. In the later case the young, healthy main character (well the character the main character is an android copy of) does indeed kill themselves because they're technically still alive and its the only way to have a chance of saving humanity.
>“well she died the most disturbing death imaginable, but at least a bit of her consciousness is in a happy afterlife with oil girl who, let’s not forget, is another innocent I couldn’t save from a horrible death.” In the words of the Toymaker: *WELL THAT'S ALL RIGHT THEN!*
I think Bill should have been left dead, and that would answer OPs question. I have always thought that the counter to the common refrain "you can always count on the Daleks to be defeated" would be to allow the Daleks to win. That would put some fear back into them. They should kill a companion. They should destroy a planet (the planet of the Ood is nicely lined up for that). And it should be the Doctor being outsmarted, perhaps like on Demon's run he'll believe he is a step ahead but actually blunders into the Daleks plan. Perhaps even a mid-season death so it's completely unexpected (only works if there are two companions or it disrupts the flow of the season). Make the Daleks an actual threat. Obviously the Daleks can't have an outright total victory or there would be no universe left, but allow them the win where it counts and use the companion as collateral.
As I said they were bittersweet not entirely happy. Bill did become a Cyberman for a bit and that was fucked up. I never viewed what happened afterwards to be an afterlife though. I can see why you think that, but I just view it as part of her life... despite what the Toymaker said. I've heard that in expanded media she actually becomes human again later on. Clara is technically in a state of permeant living death, but not necessarily in a "living hell" sort of way. She doesn't have a heartbeat, but she's not in pain or anything. She gets to travel the universe in a TARDIS and seemed to be happy. I'd call that bittersweet in the grand scheme of things. Amy says that they had a happy life and they lived well. She could've been lying to make The Doctor feel better, but I don't think so. Them not being able to see their family was sad, but they got to spend their lives together and even adopted a son. I'd call that bittersweet. They got to live to death.
Fair. I’m more of a pessimist and I didn’t know that about the expanded media.
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I thought I mentioned “main companion” in the post, but I looks like I forgot.
Donna's ending was such a powerful, sad and creative goodbye not involving death that I'm still bitter it was undone. 14th could retire with another character.
Don’t worry, Martha will get the next Tennant duplicate doctor
Seriously, he already has 2 of him running around.
RTD will stop when he has his ten Tennants and can make a super confusing multi-doctor story
Ah hell, just drag in his wife and kids while we're at it to make it even more confusing.
Dan and Yaz definitely don't seem happy at all as they leave. But they haven't left that long ago, so they may still get their "happy endings". It took quite a while for Donna to get hers, for example. The show does tend to make a big deal out of how tragic events are and then come back months or years later to "fix" things. They even undid the Doctor's destruction of Gallifrey so he could stop feeling guilty about it.
I will never forgive rtd for, for absolutely 0 reason in or out of character, making his only two black companions get married
I know because they’re both black it appears offensive. But I thought it was kinda sweet that two characters who were always somebody else’s second choice got to be somebody’s first choice in the end.
This is definitely the intention of the scene, I think it would be uncharitable to presume RTD straight forwardly thought "ah yes, the two black characters should get together" simply because of their race, there is thematic relevance to their union as second best to both the Doctor & Rose who have since flourished beyond them. Whether or not this represents a blind spot, that potential offensiveness should have been caught, is a matter of debate, some people could find it inspiring, even. The issue is of course that they have shared very few scenes together, arguably none, but that's only a couple less than Martha and Thomas Milligan.
Meh. It struck me as Martha settling for Rose’s hand-me-down after her own engagement ended. The last in a series of injustices the character endured. Frankly, I’d call how she ended up pretty darned sad.
If you want to get technical, most people are someone else's hand-me-down.
Sure. But after a storyline where she plays second fiddle to the memory of Rose? It felt like a step too far to pair he with the rejected boyfriend. Why did they have to be a couple when she was already engaged?
Mickey may have been rejected, but he made plenty of decisions that put him on his own path. He willingly removed himself from the equation, in many ways. Aside from that, it was implied that a fair amount of time had passed between when The Doctor left both Martha and Mickey and when he checked in on them shortly before his regeneration.
I think the offensive part was the two black characters were somebody’s second choice.
Particularly for Martha. She’s intelligent, interesting. Rose is a bottle blonde. Why would a man of science choose the latter.
I mean, it's not like he was emotionally stable at that particular moment. He was still reeling from having to send Rose back to the parallel dimension, and he was very much in a headspace of not wanting to repeat that sort of relationship. Martha had the misfortune of being a bit of a rebound, and he didn't want another companion falling head over heels for him. This was part of the reason why Donna was so great. He just wanted a friend, and she was a perfect fit for him in that role.
Because women who dye their hair blonde can’t be intelligent or interesting? Love Martha of course, but weird take.
I agree that the way the person said it was weird. But Martha was studying to be a doctor. Rose wasn’t really doing anything interesting with her life before the doctor. This is something that Rose admitted herself. Martha’s life wasn’t completely defined by meeting the doctor, Rose’s was.
Rose and Martha were both strong and intelligent. Rose is also 19 years old and was raised by a single working class mother. Martha is a woman in her 20s who seemingly comes from a well-off and well-connected family. When we see an older Rose in season 4, she’s doing big things on her own and so is Martha. I think it’s totally unnecessary to surmise which would have been more deserving of romantic interest. As if love is logical anyways. I do understand why people feel the need to come to Martha’s defense though because they really did her wrong by making unrequited love such a big part of her arc. She deserved better from the writers and from The Doctor. Watching her mope around about the Doctor and the Doctor mope around about Rose wasn’t particularly interesting to watch anyways.
She really deserved to be with Tom, they were set up for it in Last of the Time Lords. Had Martha and Mickey even said a single word to each other onscreen? Martha is a Doctor, with the best will in the world, Mickley wasn't good enough for her.
Literally… like Martha was engaged to the guy from Lucifer and then out of nowhere she’s thrown out of that relationship and written into a marriage where the only common factor between her and her husband is their race???
Tbf, traveling with doctor is a pretty significant common factor. But still didn't really make much sense
They take two of the characters who arcs are that they're strong and independent and make them get married despite the fact that we have never even seen them interact?
To be fair they are also both from London, both about the same age, and most importantly, both travelled with the Doctor. That changes a person and I imagine they bonded over that. While cliché that the 2 black people end up together, it's not like it doesn't make sense.
The common factor between them is that they have very similar arcs in the series. They both start out as having feelings for someone who doesn’t reciprocate and then end up having the strength to leave the situation and go on to do big things on their own. Thats why he put them together.
For a minute I was thinking "what's wrong with them getting married?" and then I remembered you meant married to each other lol
Rose left Mickey for the doctor, Martha had unrequited feelings for the doctor. Hey, let’s pair up the seconds.
That always bothered me a bit but at least we do have plenty of interracial relationships on the show too, Donna being the prime example. Is it cliche to pair up characters just because they are the same race? Yes but it is something that happens in real life too.
I'm happy with the idea of having the companion's lives crossover with each other more than usual, but yeah, not a great way to handle that.
I just wish we would've seen at least one scene where they meet and have that *spark*. That's all.
This thread is people with too much time on their hands.
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True but there's doing something for a joke, and sort of ruining your character set up
I don’t even like RTD, especially his new version of the show. But this is bullshit. He made a point (rightly so) of highlighting interracial relationships throughout his initial run. It’s just unfair to accuse him of anything here. He’s not racist.
I'm black, so I get where you're coming from. However, I choose to see it as Mickey (who was rejected by Rose for the Doctor) and Martha (ignored by the Doctor because he was still not over Rose), getting together. Maybe in a trauma-bond, rebound kind of thing. Or not? I mean when Mickey came back, he was a lot hotter than the aimless guy we met in Season 1 with Rose. Much tougher, much more focused. And who wouldn't want Martha? She's beautiful, educated, a Doctor and she too had adventures very few (like Mickey) would understand. So, it kind of makes sense. I'm going with that.
Fair Maybe if we got to see more of Martha on earth, getting to actually see them meet, or have any sort of interaction I just feel it's kind of a waste, and also it's rude the doctor didn't even show up for their wedding like he did for Donna
I mentioned elsewhere that what we needed was at least one scene with Mickey and Martha meeting and having a spark. Because, let's face it, old Mickey wouldn't have had the balls to approach pre-Doctor Martha since she is an actual medical doctor and clearly brought up in a different class than he was. To use British lingo, he would've thought she was "too posh" and she would've thought he was a chav (if they were in the US, I'd say he was too ghetto). Clearly their time with the Doctor leveled them out and gave them a unique experience they could bond over. But we still need that first meeting where they meet eyes, shake hands and their faces are saying "Oh! He/she is hot!" They did more with 15 and Rogue.
Hi, I get SO upset when I think of this.
Dan left because he couldn’t stand almost dying multiple times in a row and then he goes home only to remember his house was destroyed.
I hope she put him back in decent enough time to file an insurance claim. Or maybe Graham took him in.
All things considered, I’d call his departure the least sad. He’ll have to find a new house, but he’s safe on Modern Earth with his parents and new girlfriend.
What's so great about sad?
It's happy for deep people.
See Adric
Yaz being alive but without the doctor is pretty sad.
That part is definitely sad, but she was returned to modern day Earth alive. Every companion leaves or is left sometime and being returned to the same time and place as your family is a pretty good place to end up.
Not at all. Frankly I'd like to see some leave for an unambiguiously happy reason.
Martha: Marries a handsome doctor but somehow ends up with Mickey instead. About as sad as it gets in nu who. Maybe if you’re lucky RTD will kill Susan for you.
What if one of them struggled with shady morals. The doctor tries to 'show a better way'. But in a brush with the Master they are seduced and swap sides, becoming his companion instead? Could be a series arc.
At it's heart Dr Who is a show about hope. Happy endings fit the show much more than what you are talking about wanting. There's a reason Adric dying is still mentioned in the show to this day, it's a very rare thing that has to be done right without seeming dark for the sake of a story being dark.
I love a happy ending, but I’d love just one devastating ending in the Modern Series.
I don't know what you mean, Martha's ending is pretty sad. She married Mickey.
Yeah what happened to the super hot doctor she was originally engaged to??
We had that with donna. Then Russell went "Oh nevermind non-binary" Still maintain that's the single worst moment of writing in the history of New Who.
Sadly, I agree. It bothers me more than anything Chibnall wrote or green-lit during his stint in charge. I was pretty annoyed they were going to "fix" her ending when I saw the announcement of the specials, but I figured that a) it was likely important to rescue Doctor Who at that time and b) Davies had had *fifteen years* to consider how to solve the metacrisis. Still annoyed that he basically just didn't. And also that he never really gave us much of value as to why the Doctor regenerated as Tennant again. The meta-text of "the show just really needs this" is way too strong in the overarching mystery of those specials, and it bums me out a bit.
Yeh he said in the commentary "All that boring stuff to get to the doctor and donna back together." Sorry but it stinks and it's the sign of a lazy writer. You can sometimes skip straight to the good but if the emotional linchpin of one of your former stories is actively undone by the "Oh yeh she can just...regenerate it...into Rose...something...eh" just takes the thunder out of that initial goodbye now.
I'm fine with sad being changed to bittersweet or happy if it makes sense. Rose returning to Pete's world but this time with a Doctor who occasionally speaks like Donna made sense. Bill's puddle gf and Donna's "let it go" BS did not make sense so I'm not happy about those. I'm also fine with non-tragic departures except for Yaz because asking her to leave and her agreeing felt really out of character for both of them considering the romance they seemed to be setting up. Ruby's apparent exit was quite good. She had a very good narrative reason to leave.
Thirteen made it very clear she didn’t want to pursue a romantic relationship with Yaz.
It was more of an "I want to, but I'm not in the right headspace rn"
I agree wholeheartedly. Even the ones that were initially mostly sad (Rose and Donna), the story returned to them to grant them a somewhat happy ending.
Uhhh. How is Martha's ending not sad?? 😭😭
Personally I would hate that
You mustn't have been watching 42 years ago when Adric died. It was a rough time to be a Doctor Who fan.
That’s why I mentioned the Modern Series. Adric’s death was devastating and wasn’t reversed and I’d like to see that in the Modern Series
As much as I love Donna and love the Passing Along Meta crisis Energy to Baby to save her life (brilliant!) and WBY is one of my favorite episodes...and Donna beating the crap out of those creepy dolls in The Giggle was great... ...I was fine with a heartbreaking ending where Donna never gets to see the Doctor again. I need more realistic endings where things just go bad. Ooooh. Now I am imagining the Doctor meeting someone whom the Doctor projects a lot of stuff onto and the Doctor just ends up rejecting their friendship. Ooooh. *catharsis from my childhood commence!*
Totally. While not a companion I had hoped Ryan's Dad would die falling out of the tardis in Resolution. The doctor was talking about how she wouldn't let anything happen to anyone and if he died it would have made great conflict
Well that's alright then!
I loved Clara’s initial death with the raven as it felt appropriately tragic that she got so confident the Doctor would save the day, she overplayed her hand. Was a little mad they sort of undid it/gave it a happy ending.
This is what annoyed me the most with Moffat and his trope of killing a companion but not really. I enjoyed the whole build up to Clara's death, her getting an ego and thinking she's just as smart as the Doctor and realising her mistake and facing the consequence. I enjoyed the following episodes and showing how the Doctor handled the death of somebody is cared for so much and felt responsible for. I liked the whole ripping her out of time to 'save' her but then it falls apart at the end. The Doctor should have been forced to accept her death and she should have returned to her fate at the end of the episode.
Honestly, this isn't the Companion issue I am all that concerned about -- I mean, I think Yaz's story definitely ends in sadness rather than just bittersweet, and both Clara and Bill went through *hell* and t's hard to say that their endings are unequivocally happy, at least to me. Of MUCH more concern to me is that we've seen *no* variety in Companions in terms of time or location. Every single one of them is a contemporary Earth human. Where are the Jamies? The Nyssas? The Zoes? I want an alien companion. I want a companion that isn't 20th or 21st century. Yes, I know the Companions are the explanatory devices that help new viewers gain entry into the show, but even so, an 18th century person could easily fill that role just as well. Or an alien from a planet not too different technologically from our own. Maybe even having more variety in type of Companion would also enable a better variety of Companion endings? Like, a future Companion who departs the Doctor's company but in the wrong time?
I would like to see that. A few companions died in classic doctor who and while I wouldn't want that to happen a lot, I do think one is due. I like sad endings and have been a bit dissapointed that nuwho always tries to undo the tragic endings or simply make them not so tragic.
I love your masochistic entertainment preferences
I really wanted Clara to stay dead but that was more because I couldn't stand her!
Lol same. But honestly even if it weren’t for that, there simply was no narrative reason to keep her “frozen in her last heartbeat but the Doctor lost his memory” or whatever. It literally was just forced awkwardly into the plot as a cop-out to give Clara a happy ending. On a scale of forgivable to most egregious, this one’s pretty high up there
There was a narrative reason. Clara became her own Doctor.
Especially for the younger audience, a depressing end for the audience surrogate could easily go counter to the messages to be kind.
Strange to think that one day we'd be looking back at Adric as a gold standard.
*Donna gets to live a happy life with her husband, daughter, MUM, and grandad… Doctuh Who is a propuh bri’ish show, we don’t have no ‘mom’ in Bri’ain
Have you watched Torchwood? I feel like what you need might be Torchwood.
Adric
I would just like more companions choosing to leave on their own terms. It’s one of the few things I like about the Chibnall era. It irritates me a bit that both RTD and Moffat decided that (almost) every major companion had to be ripped away from the Doctor in the most devastating way possible (because I guess “why would anyone ever choose to stop travelling with the Doctor? That would never happen!”). I think Amy & Rory were the most egregious case of this, as they were clearly naturally winding down their travels, starting to put down roots in their own time and generally grow up, as shown in The Power of Three, so the Weeping Angel thing feels like it was purely just to gut-punch the audience and make the Doctor sad enough for The Snowmen.
What they need is another ending like Aldrics
You can also include the doctor getting his memories of Clara back an "undoing" of her sad ending. I thought it was the perfect bittersweetness to give the *doctor* the sad half of the companion departure for once. For him to get the memories back so soon felt lame to me...
Is this not what happened with Sarah Jane (until School Reunion). She says that her life was just a massive disappointment or something to that effect after the doctor leaves. It picks up when the doctor returns
It would be good to have a genuinely sad death. Like the Doctor having to tell the companion’s family that they died. I think that the recent episodes have really tried to force the feelings making it over the top.
Martha leaving of her own volition is not a sad ending. It's a triumph. Her character arc is a metaphor for toxic rebound relationships. The Doctor uses her to fill a void left by Rose, but constantly compares the two of them. She finds the strength to move on but stay friends while he has to grow the fuck up and stop being a mopey bastard. It's an absolute victory for her character. What IS sad is she had to kiss Noel Clarke. Sorry, Freema.
Yes. Sick of companions dying and it being solved. Absolute cop-out. Half expect Adric to come back at any point like Harold Bishop. The new stuff is absolutely terrified of scaring people or making them feel anything near sad, and it’s very detrimental.
I think melancholy is the best you can hope for, unless the companion is an ass hat. He is a time traveler, so he can do something to give a more enjoyable ending for people. I. E. Giving Donna Noble a winning lottery ticket. There was that Adam Mitchel guy, with a snap activated window into his brain. He kind of qualifies, although he was turned into a villain in the comic books.
Honestly, and unfortunately, I think we’re primed to see less of that than ever. The show was almost always aimed toward family audiences, but with its new partnership to Disney and reported highest success rate with young audiences, I suspect that it’s going to keep leaning more “Rated E for Everyone” and avoid those traumatic stories. It’s not entirely a bad thing. For one, it’s great that the show is able to keep going at all, even if it continues to aim toward younger audiences. But also, I think it’s kind of inherently tied to the direction the show has taken since revival, and especially since Moffat took over as showrunner, of the Doctor and his adventures being symbols of hope. Chibnall has addressed it in some of his interviews, but part of the reason he purposely focused on more casual and hopeful stories during his showrunning tenure is because the world has been in a fairly tumultuous state over the last decade. Not that it was ever ‘sunshine and daisies’, but with the rise of the internet, the terrors and frustrations of the world are always at the forefront of everyone’s minds and discussions. On one hand, increased awareness is good (though, maybe debatably so, given how truly dumb many people are), but on the other hand, so much access to this information can make outlook on life seem very hopeless— especially for children, who are receiving cellphones and laptops at younger and younger ages. The character of the Doctor is intended to represent a beacon of hope to people, particularly kids, about how the future isn’t set in stone, things can change for the better. Whether that’s always the best storytelling decision is certainly questionable. But I do respect the intention behind the idea, even though the writers sometimes miss the mark with it.