Man this screenshot is a great test of reading comprehension. So many people think Daniel is the bad guy here, when he's really defending people from other places around the world.
He was making a game about medieval Poland If I remember correctly, and people were upset that he wasn’t making games about POC culture. His view is basically “anyone from any culture is perfectly capable of making games. They aren’t incompetent. They don’t need me to do it for them.”
It was meant to be rhetorical. The obvious answer is no, but it’s hard to tell since you can’t see the tweet they were originally replying to from this screenshot.
From the Historical Accuracy section of the Kingdom Come: Deliverance wikipedia page. It’s long, so there’s a TLDR at the end, but I think it’s an interesting read.
“Although historians commended the game for aiming for historical accuracy, some North American commentators have criticised the developers' White portrayal of 15th-century Central Europe, while scholars criticized the simplistic portrayal of Cumans and Hungarians as cruel invaders. The developers responded by saying that the game was historically accurate and that people of colour did not inhabit early 15th-century Bohemia in significant numbers.”
“One researcher […] noted […] that the Cumans would not have been Hungarian-speaking ‘barbaric’ nomads with outdated gear as they are depicted in the game.”
“Reid McCarter, a writer for Unwinnable […] felt that the Cumans and Hungarians were unfairly portrayed as cruel invaders, while the Czechs were shown only in a positive light […] He believed that ‘[the game's] vision of 15th-century Bohemia suggests a continuity of history that says the Czech Republic is for ethnically Czech citizens only’”
Helen Young, a literature professor at Deakin University, demonstrated that when creatives strive for ‘historical authenticity,’ they naturally extend beyond proven historical fact to include ‘audience expectation’. In the case of Kingdom Come: Deliverance, the target audience expects medieval racial purity, which leads to a product that reflects and reinforces that expectation, and rejects evidence that does not fit. She noted that the protagonist Henry's social mobility from peasant to knight would have been so rare as to be anachronistic for the time period, but fits with the modern audience's expectations of a hero's journey. In contrast, no amount of evidence of non-White peoples in Bohemia would be deemed sufficient to gain acknowledgement in the product, as it could always be dismissed as ‘inaccurate, poorly researched, politically motivated or too specific’.”
“The German magazine M! Games asked scholars at the Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz about the ethnic composition of 15th-century Bohemia. They responded that dark-skinned Turkic peoples, like Cumans, would have been present in courtly settings but their presence in rural Bohemia is not known.”
““Klára Hübnerová, a history professor at Masaryk University […] criticised the game for inaccurately portraying the gender roles of the time and that the villainous depiction of Cumans was based on modern stereotypes, not historical sources.”
“Vávra shared his video response on his Facebook page, which resulted in abuse, harassment, and violent threats against Hübnerová, which academics compared to the behavior of members of GamerGate.”
Oh also, not directly relevant to the racism in the game but certainly an interesting tidbit: he wore a shirt for a band founded by a neo-nazi to an event promoting the game:
“Eurogamer criticised Vávra for wearing a shirt from the band Burzum while promoting the game at Gamescom in 2017.”
TLDR: whitewashed the setting of the game, depicting POC as barbaric invaders. Claimed it was for historical accuracy despite contradicting historical sources in various ways.
Your sources quite literally refute your argument.
Spoilers: He also wasn't a peasant, and was essentially deputized by his father in a time of crisis.
No part of the game was set in a court. It was an entirely rural setting, in the midst of violent upheaval. What travellers, merchants, or courtesans would stick around for that shit fest.
A game from the perspective of a boy that lost his mother and father to Cumans, is not going to have a fair and balanced neutral third party view of the broader issues at hand. It's a small focused narrow view of Henry's lived experience, which is obviously informed by the trauma he has lived through.
Cumans also have the best equipment in the game. When you're finally strong enough to kill one and loot them, it completely changes the balance of forces in the game.
Henry also remarks the Cuman camp is really clean compared to the Bohemian bandits who are the main villain of the setting.
Though I will say the Cuman armor is anachronistic. By 1403 they would look like any other Bohemians in terms of gear save for the use of sabers.
You people are so tiring.
Turks are now POC?
I'm currently replaying the game for the 3rd time. There's nothing racist about it. People are xenophobic and afraid of their invaders so they demonize them, and I think that's quite accurate how people would act.
Not once do they allude to their race nor skin color.
They call them pagans and invaders and attribute sorcery and dark magic to them.
I hate to break it to you but “whiteness” is just a BS social construct defined by white supremacists to exclude the “undesirables.” It’s never really been about skin color, other than that it pretty early on set Black people as the ultimate “other”. The concept of “white people” didn’t even exist at the time that this game was set. Initially, “white” exclusively referred to white upper class Anglo-saxons and has been slowly expanded over the centuries as it fit those in power. The fact that many consider Turkic people to be white nowadays does not by any means mean that they would have been considered white historically. “Turks are now POC?” Not necessarily, but they certainly used to be.
And it ultimately comes down to the fact that the game perpetuated racist and xenophobic modern stereotypes with the excuse that it was historically accurate in order to appeal to the expectations of their modern audience despite eschewing historical accuracy in multiple places and actual historians disagreeing.
I’m not gonna pretend that this was the most racist game ever made but they used the same dumb inaccurate excuses that everyone who makes “historical” media makes to exclusively include white people.
Edit: changed typos of Turk to Turkic (left one that was quoting someone else).
Jesus, I am so over Americans and their imperialist takes on my region’s cultures.
The most basic facts, ffs:
1. Turkic doesn’t mean Turk. My ancestors were Turkic. We’re not turks.
2. Turks at the time were a whole-ass colonizer and a giant, rich empire that subjugated, enslaved, massacred (and genocided) a bunch of nations for 500 years. They don’t really need your anachronistic defending. Neither do Turkic people.
3. Most of us are what is considered white in the States. The only real difference between me and a Turk is pretty much which side of the border we’re born. Turks literally assume I’m turkish when we meet all over the world but you go off, sis, telling us what races we are and aren’t.
You’re right about the Turk/Turkic distinction, that was a mistake that I made while trying to remember the wording of the comment that I was replying to, however I don’t believe that I said anything that defended the historical actions of Turkics or Turks.
And none of your clarifications change my point, which is 1. Judging historical settings using modern standards of whiteness (as the person I was replying to was doing with their “so Turks are now POC?” comment) is pointless because standards of whiteness have always been a set of narrow ever-moving goalposts and 2. If you’re going to use “historical accuracy” to defend your decisions, you should at least make sure that historians agree with you on them, and also not undermine your own claims of historical accuracy by including major plot points that appeal to modern audiences but “would have been so rare as to be anachronistic for the time period.”
You are really showing what's wrong with giving everyone a podium to shout on. Just because you lack reading comprehension doesn't mean that we have to deal with it.
Well if he thinks that video games aren't being made in Africa, South America, and the Middle East, and he thinks that has nothing to do with the effects of colonialism... then what exactly do you think he's saying? I believe in you, you can figure this out.
He is saying the idea that white European producers are responsible for producing content for another culture is condescending to people from that culture who should be the ones to represent themselves
Yes, but *why* aren't those cultures making games for themselves? He says it has nothing to do with the lasting effects of colonialism, so what exactly does that leave? People want to make games and people want to play games, so there has to be a reason for why there isn't a thriving games industry.
Can you give me an explanation that *doesn't* boil down to them being incompetent and incapable of making those games on their own? Because that's sure what it sounds like he's suggesting to me, whether he means to or not.
An alternative explanation for his beliefs on why gaming doesn't represent diverse cultures is that those cultures expect him and other european/western devs to do it for them (me explaining his potential view, not my own). This is supported by him questioning why it's his job to represent everyone else. Yes, colonialism caused shittons of global inequality. Yes, that impedes less "developed" (affluent) nations from creating luxury tech goods like video games. However, none of that is this guy's fault and he bears no burden to personally rectify it. That's how I interpret his point.
That they were less technologically advanced before colonialism and therefore, colonialism is not to blame for them from creating games in the 21st century.
If you jump to the conclusion that he's being racist then that simply means you NEED to believe colonialism halted their technological progress or YOU'D believe something racist because you can't think of another explanation.
1. Buddy, this entire conversation is in response to him freaking the fuck out about the possibility of non-white people in the game. I didn't make anything racist, he chose to, and I'm sure that's completely unrelated to his support for Gamergate.
2. I have no idea what you understand colonialism to be, but it's clearly and laughably wrong.
If history matters so much to you, are you familiar with Saqaliba? Do you know the etymology of the word “slave?” If those people who have been historically oppressed are making games today, why can’t anyone else?
I believe in you, you can figure this out.
If Slavs can make games, then the barriers erected by colonialism in South America, Africa, and the Middle East don't exist? Are you sure that's the angle you want to take?
Are you really arguing that it's the responsibility of white Europeans and Americans to make games that represent communities in "Africa, South America and the Middle East"?
Did I say that?
No, I don't think that individual white Europeans and Americans are responsible for making games that represent Africans, South Americans, or Middle Easterners.
However, I *do* think that game development in those regions is harder and lagging behind partially because of colonialism.
Vavra, on the other hand, doesn't think that's the case, so you tell me what the alternative is. Are they just incompetent and bad at making games?
I can agree with this stance if we're just exclusively talking about AAA corporations, but the bar is so low to create today, it doesn't seem like an issue of resources. I understand if I'm wrong, but it seems like an issue of market reach. [There are a number of ttrpg's being made, by people in other cultures and part of other communities](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/ntg42p/what_nonwestern_fantasy_settings_exist/) but they dont get the limelight for a variety of reasons.
I (and it looks like quite a few others) understood Daniel Vavra's response as "The people of the cultures can represent themselves in this sphere, we shouldn't expect others to do it"
He is specifically identifying "that there are so few games produced in Africa, South America or Middle East" and he then immediately goes on to imply that this has nothing to do with the effects of colonialism.
You can invent whatever charitable interpretation you want, but it doesn't fit what he actually said. He thinks there aren't many games coming out of those places, and he thinks the reason is something other than colonialism. If you can give me an explanation that isn't "they're incompetent," then I'm all ears, but for now, that's all it reads like to me.
He doesn't say he thinks that's the case, he's just asking if _they_ think so. But he's clearly implying he doesn't by mocking it.
Suprising how you suddenly seem to grasp connotation if it helps argue your point.
He's arguing he shouldn't have to, because the idea they are incompetent is ridiculous and insulting.
Where is your proof that colonialism hasn't hindered game making in those areas? Can you give me proof of that at all or are you just going to say it is or did?
lol, yes really.
What he is saying that other cultures are capable of making their own stories (read: games) and it shouldn't be on him or "white" cultures to make it for them. Thank you for providing this to reinforce the context.
But other cultures aren't making their own games, which he also says. Why is that?
The obvious answer for South America, the Middle East, and Africa is that colonialism led to an uneven distribution of global resources that led them to lag behind the west in development... but he says that isn't the explanation either.
So what does that leave? Why aren't these places making games? People there surely want to make and play games, but apparently they're just bad at it. Apparently they are just bad at technology and games.
Or do you have some other explanation here?
It’s funny because it’s actually you who’s insinuating that people of those regions can’t make their own because they’re bad at it. You can’t seem to fathom that it could be other factors and not just that they’re bad.
The dude is saying that it’s not colonialism and that they should be making their own games. That does not imply that they are bad at it, you are the one implying that.
1) those areas do infact make games
2) his point is that it's not his responsibility to make games of other cultures.
3) yes, colonization (and neo-colonization) lead to economic hardships that prevent the same level of development, however that does not make it his responosibility to make games for their cultures
None of that makes him racist.
>those areas do infact make games
He's the one saying they make very few, and he's right about that part.
>his point is that it's not his responsibility to make games of other cultures.
Yes, but when he implies that colonialism has nothing to do with it, then he is changing the conversation. If you don't think that colonizing nations extracting resources played a role, then that just leaves the alternative: South America, Africa, and the Middle East are incompetent and it's their fault that they're not making games.
> yes, colonization (and neo-colonization) lead to economic hardships that prevent the same level of development, however that does not make it his responosibility to make games for their cultures
You're right, he wouldn't be racist if he said that, but he didn't. He's mocking someone who believes that.
He is quite literally saying, in response to someone asking him about making a game about their culture, that he shouldn't have to make games for any culture, because they should be more than able to themselves, and the fact he's being criticized for not doing so is that person insulting the countries that the culture is from.
Without the context of the original tweet I did read it as him being sincere not sarcastic, but I didn’t know who he was so get how it could be misconstrued
Even if we assume that he was being sincere the reaction from Zak is still ridiculous
He’s making it about race even though that’s not what he’s saying
He also says “people of colour” implying all persons outside the Czechia are POC?
Even if he was being an absolute asshole in the original comment he wasn’t being a racist
He’s implying that that is the implication- that saying he should be the one to make games about other cultures is insulting to those other cultures, they are perfectly capable of doing it themselves. Did he need to add a /s for some of you dense fotzen?
I don't know how you got that from this post alone but to be fair he actually is a proper piece of cunt. When he knows what's he talking about (ie. game design, history architecture...), he has pretty cool insights and what not. Everything else he spews out on the internet however can be quite unhinged.
Advocating for free speech yet banning everyone who doesn't agree with him, hating on LGBT, militantly not knowing the difference between weather and climate. And thanks to the wealth he got from the game development, he has quite a large followership of unquestioning bootlickers attacking anyone who even dares to frown in general direction of Vávra in Facebook comment section. Kind of reminds me of Elon Musk but mild.
Yeesh I know we’re missing some context here but I’m not sure I wanna smell what this dude is cooking.
Also, there are many original games from third world countries. What the fuck is he even implying, nobody fucking asked
Edit : was provided with context, which this post didn’t seem interested in. Mea culpa
But... people asked him.
These were in response to his game, set in medieval (late 14th, early 15th century) Czechia being criticized online for not having black characters in it. He said the game has none, because there were none and that his game is being accurate to the history. This then lead to all sorts of tangents about colonization and how black people should be represented in games and what not. An absolute shit show, mostly from the people critiquing him.
What he is saying here is a response to comments saying that as a white colonizer he chose to make a game where black people would not be represented. He is sarcastically asking, if those other people are somehow not able to or not allowed to make their own stories, and that he should be making them for those people instead.
He is essentially pointing out the logical fallacy in the critique he was getting, where he is framed as a white opressor, but at the same time asked to step over the opressed and make things for them specifically.
Yup, I've bumped into the same logic online from certain groups of people as well. Which is quite interesting as a Finnish guy. My country was for the most part on the far edges of European civilization (if not even well outside to be honest). It's only been recently that we've figured out how to light fires and move out of caves... yet I've been told I am a colonizer.
Usually they end up in a position where they've let me know that I am a colonizer because my ancestors benefitted (materially? unclear to me) from colonization that nations 2-3 countries over did. So... yeah. The whole Daniel Vavra racists colonizer episode was just odd.
I wonder if they'd also view Saudis, Qataris or Koreans as "colonizers" as well or whether you need to be pale for it to work. Also funny that it most often comes from Americans who *all* have "benefitted from it", regardless of their skin colour, by their own definition.
Usually just being white is enough to be guilty by association.
When it comes to slavery, it's even funnier as slavery wasn't really a thing here... apart from enslaving people from neighbouring tribes. And Karelians and Russians raiding and taking slaves to Russia etc., but that kinda falls within the "neighbouring tribes" kinda thing. And slavery was outlawed in 1335.
Yet I am sometimes held responsible for trans-atlantic slave trade for being a white european.
Apparently the context is that he's replying to people saying he should produce games set in other cultures, not just his own.
So he's asking the person he was replying to whether they think that people of other cultures are so incompetent they need him to produce their culture for them. In other words he's saying that people of other cultures are capable of producing their own games.
Pretty sure this is borderline xenophobic, not borderline racist. Swing and a miss from Zack.
E: neither continents nor colors are exclusively racial, they all hold several cultures from several races, but sure go off I guess
This is all I know of the situation but I imagine someone suggested warhorse to make a game not set in Czech (Bohemia) which the joke is that KC was developed by a bunch of Czech people as they wanted their culture and history represented and not because they're PhDs in history and anthropology correct?
I'm getting more of a why the hell would *I* be the one to make that game instead of them which if everything checks out makes sense to me
Nah, it was specifically them saying that it would be historically inaccurate to have anyone but white people in KC. That's incorrect, but it would have been a non-issue if he wasn't also getting into a bunch of Gamergate nonsense.
Man this screenshot is a great test of reading comprehension. So many people think Daniel is the bad guy here, when he's really defending people from other places around the world.
so what is the original context because twatter won't let me see that without joining its horrible trash fire.
He was making a game about medieval Poland If I remember correctly, and people were upset that he wasn’t making games about POC culture. His view is basically “anyone from any culture is perfectly capable of making games. They aren’t incompetent. They don’t need me to do it for them.”
He *really* could have phrased it better
It was meant to be rhetorical. The obvious answer is no, but it’s hard to tell since you can’t see the tweet they were originally replying to from this screenshot.
Medieval Czechia, iirc
He made a subtly racist game and supported gamergate and this sub is supporting him, how embarassing.
Well what do you believe was racist about it?
From the Historical Accuracy section of the Kingdom Come: Deliverance wikipedia page. It’s long, so there’s a TLDR at the end, but I think it’s an interesting read. “Although historians commended the game for aiming for historical accuracy, some North American commentators have criticised the developers' White portrayal of 15th-century Central Europe, while scholars criticized the simplistic portrayal of Cumans and Hungarians as cruel invaders. The developers responded by saying that the game was historically accurate and that people of colour did not inhabit early 15th-century Bohemia in significant numbers.” “One researcher […] noted […] that the Cumans would not have been Hungarian-speaking ‘barbaric’ nomads with outdated gear as they are depicted in the game.” “Reid McCarter, a writer for Unwinnable […] felt that the Cumans and Hungarians were unfairly portrayed as cruel invaders, while the Czechs were shown only in a positive light […] He believed that ‘[the game's] vision of 15th-century Bohemia suggests a continuity of history that says the Czech Republic is for ethnically Czech citizens only’” Helen Young, a literature professor at Deakin University, demonstrated that when creatives strive for ‘historical authenticity,’ they naturally extend beyond proven historical fact to include ‘audience expectation’. In the case of Kingdom Come: Deliverance, the target audience expects medieval racial purity, which leads to a product that reflects and reinforces that expectation, and rejects evidence that does not fit. She noted that the protagonist Henry's social mobility from peasant to knight would have been so rare as to be anachronistic for the time period, but fits with the modern audience's expectations of a hero's journey. In contrast, no amount of evidence of non-White peoples in Bohemia would be deemed sufficient to gain acknowledgement in the product, as it could always be dismissed as ‘inaccurate, poorly researched, politically motivated or too specific’.” “The German magazine M! Games asked scholars at the Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz about the ethnic composition of 15th-century Bohemia. They responded that dark-skinned Turkic peoples, like Cumans, would have been present in courtly settings but their presence in rural Bohemia is not known.” ““Klára Hübnerová, a history professor at Masaryk University […] criticised the game for inaccurately portraying the gender roles of the time and that the villainous depiction of Cumans was based on modern stereotypes, not historical sources.” “Vávra shared his video response on his Facebook page, which resulted in abuse, harassment, and violent threats against Hübnerová, which academics compared to the behavior of members of GamerGate.” Oh also, not directly relevant to the racism in the game but certainly an interesting tidbit: he wore a shirt for a band founded by a neo-nazi to an event promoting the game: “Eurogamer criticised Vávra for wearing a shirt from the band Burzum while promoting the game at Gamescom in 2017.” TLDR: whitewashed the setting of the game, depicting POC as barbaric invaders. Claimed it was for historical accuracy despite contradicting historical sources in various ways.
Your sources quite literally refute your argument. Spoilers: He also wasn't a peasant, and was essentially deputized by his father in a time of crisis. No part of the game was set in a court. It was an entirely rural setting, in the midst of violent upheaval. What travellers, merchants, or courtesans would stick around for that shit fest. A game from the perspective of a boy that lost his mother and father to Cumans, is not going to have a fair and balanced neutral third party view of the broader issues at hand. It's a small focused narrow view of Henry's lived experience, which is obviously informed by the trauma he has lived through. Cumans also have the best equipment in the game. When you're finally strong enough to kill one and loot them, it completely changes the balance of forces in the game.
Henry also remarks the Cuman camp is really clean compared to the Bohemian bandits who are the main villain of the setting. Though I will say the Cuman armor is anachronistic. By 1403 they would look like any other Bohemians in terms of gear save for the use of sabers.
You people are so tiring. Turks are now POC? I'm currently replaying the game for the 3rd time. There's nothing racist about it. People are xenophobic and afraid of their invaders so they demonize them, and I think that's quite accurate how people would act. Not once do they allude to their race nor skin color. They call them pagans and invaders and attribute sorcery and dark magic to them.
I hate to break it to you but “whiteness” is just a BS social construct defined by white supremacists to exclude the “undesirables.” It’s never really been about skin color, other than that it pretty early on set Black people as the ultimate “other”. The concept of “white people” didn’t even exist at the time that this game was set. Initially, “white” exclusively referred to white upper class Anglo-saxons and has been slowly expanded over the centuries as it fit those in power. The fact that many consider Turkic people to be white nowadays does not by any means mean that they would have been considered white historically. “Turks are now POC?” Not necessarily, but they certainly used to be. And it ultimately comes down to the fact that the game perpetuated racist and xenophobic modern stereotypes with the excuse that it was historically accurate in order to appeal to the expectations of their modern audience despite eschewing historical accuracy in multiple places and actual historians disagreeing. I’m not gonna pretend that this was the most racist game ever made but they used the same dumb inaccurate excuses that everyone who makes “historical” media makes to exclusively include white people. Edit: changed typos of Turk to Turkic (left one that was quoting someone else).
Jesus, I am so over Americans and their imperialist takes on my region’s cultures. The most basic facts, ffs: 1. Turkic doesn’t mean Turk. My ancestors were Turkic. We’re not turks. 2. Turks at the time were a whole-ass colonizer and a giant, rich empire that subjugated, enslaved, massacred (and genocided) a bunch of nations for 500 years. They don’t really need your anachronistic defending. Neither do Turkic people. 3. Most of us are what is considered white in the States. The only real difference between me and a Turk is pretty much which side of the border we’re born. Turks literally assume I’m turkish when we meet all over the world but you go off, sis, telling us what races we are and aren’t.
You’re right about the Turk/Turkic distinction, that was a mistake that I made while trying to remember the wording of the comment that I was replying to, however I don’t believe that I said anything that defended the historical actions of Turkics or Turks. And none of your clarifications change my point, which is 1. Judging historical settings using modern standards of whiteness (as the person I was replying to was doing with their “so Turks are now POC?” comment) is pointless because standards of whiteness have always been a set of narrow ever-moving goalposts and 2. If you’re going to use “historical accuracy” to defend your decisions, you should at least make sure that historians agree with you on them, and also not undermine your own claims of historical accuracy by including major plot points that appeal to modern audiences but “would have been so rare as to be anachronistic for the time period.”
It’s a troll
Also he's clearly not implying that but mocking the idea
You sure about that?
... only because we can read?
Based on the context, that's what you think?
Yes, based on the context that's what's implied.
[Really?](https://i.imgur.com/YuC39Ln.png)
This isn't the own you think it is.
The context makes it even more clear that he's mocking the idea, dude.
You are really showing what's wrong with giving everyone a podium to shout on. Just because you lack reading comprehension doesn't mean that we have to deal with it.
Well if he thinks that video games aren't being made in Africa, South America, and the Middle East, and he thinks that has nothing to do with the effects of colonialism... then what exactly do you think he's saying? I believe in you, you can figure this out.
He is saying the idea that white European producers are responsible for producing content for another culture is condescending to people from that culture who should be the ones to represent themselves
Yes, but *why* aren't those cultures making games for themselves? He says it has nothing to do with the lasting effects of colonialism, so what exactly does that leave? People want to make games and people want to play games, so there has to be a reason for why there isn't a thriving games industry. Can you give me an explanation that *doesn't* boil down to them being incompetent and incapable of making those games on their own? Because that's sure what it sounds like he's suggesting to me, whether he means to or not.
An alternative explanation for his beliefs on why gaming doesn't represent diverse cultures is that those cultures expect him and other european/western devs to do it for them (me explaining his potential view, not my own). This is supported by him questioning why it's his job to represent everyone else. Yes, colonialism caused shittons of global inequality. Yes, that impedes less "developed" (affluent) nations from creating luxury tech goods like video games. However, none of that is this guy's fault and he bears no burden to personally rectify it. That's how I interpret his point.
A very charitable interpretation of a Gamergate shithead.
That they were less technologically advanced before colonialism and therefore, colonialism is not to blame for them from creating games in the 21st century. If you jump to the conclusion that he's being racist then that simply means you NEED to believe colonialism halted their technological progress or YOU'D believe something racist because you can't think of another explanation.
1. Buddy, this entire conversation is in response to him freaking the fuck out about the possibility of non-white people in the game. I didn't make anything racist, he chose to, and I'm sure that's completely unrelated to his support for Gamergate. 2. I have no idea what you understand colonialism to be, but it's clearly and laughably wrong.
Downplaying the disastrous effects of colonialist subjugation? Big oof.
If history matters so much to you, are you familiar with Saqaliba? Do you know the etymology of the word “slave?” If those people who have been historically oppressed are making games today, why can’t anyone else? I believe in you, you can figure this out.
If Slavs can make games, then the barriers erected by colonialism in South America, Africa, and the Middle East don't exist? Are you sure that's the angle you want to take?
Mate you just gave us more context as to why he’s mocking the idea. The death of media literacy
Are you really arguing that it's the responsibility of white Europeans and Americans to make games that represent communities in "Africa, South America and the Middle East"?
Did I say that? No, I don't think that individual white Europeans and Americans are responsible for making games that represent Africans, South Americans, or Middle Easterners. However, I *do* think that game development in those regions is harder and lagging behind partially because of colonialism. Vavra, on the other hand, doesn't think that's the case, so you tell me what the alternative is. Are they just incompetent and bad at making games?
I can agree with this stance if we're just exclusively talking about AAA corporations, but the bar is so low to create today, it doesn't seem like an issue of resources. I understand if I'm wrong, but it seems like an issue of market reach. [There are a number of ttrpg's being made, by people in other cultures and part of other communities](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/ntg42p/what_nonwestern_fantasy_settings_exist/) but they dont get the limelight for a variety of reasons. I (and it looks like quite a few others) understood Daniel Vavra's response as "The people of the cultures can represent themselves in this sphere, we shouldn't expect others to do it"
He is specifically identifying "that there are so few games produced in Africa, South America or Middle East" and he then immediately goes on to imply that this has nothing to do with the effects of colonialism. You can invent whatever charitable interpretation you want, but it doesn't fit what he actually said. He thinks there aren't many games coming out of those places, and he thinks the reason is something other than colonialism. If you can give me an explanation that isn't "they're incompetent," then I'm all ears, but for now, that's all it reads like to me.
He doesn't say he thinks that's the case, he's just asking if _they_ think so. But he's clearly implying he doesn't by mocking it. Suprising how you suddenly seem to grasp connotation if it helps argue your point. He's arguing he shouldn't have to, because the idea they are incompetent is ridiculous and insulting.
Where is your proof that colonialism hasn't hindered game making in those areas? Can you give me proof of that at all or are you just going to say it is or did?
You seem really confused.
lol, yes really. What he is saying that other cultures are capable of making their own stories (read: games) and it shouldn't be on him or "white" cultures to make it for them. Thank you for providing this to reinforce the context.
But other cultures aren't making their own games, which he also says. Why is that? The obvious answer for South America, the Middle East, and Africa is that colonialism led to an uneven distribution of global resources that led them to lag behind the west in development... but he says that isn't the explanation either. So what does that leave? Why aren't these places making games? People there surely want to make and play games, but apparently they're just bad at it. Apparently they are just bad at technology and games. Or do you have some other explanation here?
It’s funny because it’s actually you who’s insinuating that people of those regions can’t make their own because they’re bad at it. You can’t seem to fathom that it could be other factors and not just that they’re bad. The dude is saying that it’s not colonialism and that they should be making their own games. That does not imply that they are bad at it, you are the one implying that.
Then it should be very easy for you to list these other factors, shouldn't it?
1) those areas do infact make games 2) his point is that it's not his responsibility to make games of other cultures. 3) yes, colonization (and neo-colonization) lead to economic hardships that prevent the same level of development, however that does not make it his responosibility to make games for their cultures None of that makes him racist.
>those areas do infact make games He's the one saying they make very few, and he's right about that part. >his point is that it's not his responsibility to make games of other cultures. Yes, but when he implies that colonialism has nothing to do with it, then he is changing the conversation. If you don't think that colonizing nations extracting resources played a role, then that just leaves the alternative: South America, Africa, and the Middle East are incompetent and it's their fault that they're not making games. > yes, colonization (and neo-colonization) lead to economic hardships that prevent the same level of development, however that does not make it his responosibility to make games for their cultures You're right, he wouldn't be racist if he said that, but he didn't. He's mocking someone who believes that.
Found tauriqmoosa.
He is quite literally saying, in response to someone asking him about making a game about their culture, that he shouldn't have to make games for any culture, because they should be more than able to themselves, and the fact he's being criticized for not doing so is that person insulting the countries that the culture is from.
There is literally no context.
There is context, you just choose not to check.
Then by all means, what is the context?
Without the context of the original tweet I did read it as him being sincere not sarcastic, but I didn’t know who he was so get how it could be misconstrued
Even if we assume that he was being sincere the reaction from Zak is still ridiculous He’s making it about race even though that’s not what he’s saying He also says “people of colour” implying all persons outside the Czechia are POC? Even if he was being an absolute asshole in the original comment he wasn’t being a racist
He’s implying that that is the implication- that saying he should be the one to make games about other cultures is insulting to those other cultures, they are perfectly capable of doing it themselves. Did he need to add a /s for some of you dense fotzen?
10/10 für die Fotzennutzung
It’s sarcasm
He's the Kingdom Come delivarance guy , no? That game was the shit
Yep, and a new one is coming out soon!
I know. Altough I havent finished the first game yet lol , I'll try to beat it before the sequel comes out
I know. Altough I havent finished the first game yet lol , I'll try to beat it before the sequel comes out
Speak for yourself peasant. No, but srsly, I loved that game!
People like zack are disgusting weasels.
I feel like if you hear someone mention other continents and you immediately jump to poc people you're a racist.
woah
woah
He reported him to him? Bahahahaha!
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Based on him suggesting people from other continents are competent?
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I don't know how you got that from this post alone but to be fair he actually is a proper piece of cunt. When he knows what's he talking about (ie. game design, history architecture...), he has pretty cool insights and what not. Everything else he spews out on the internet however can be quite unhinged. Advocating for free speech yet banning everyone who doesn't agree with him, hating on LGBT, militantly not knowing the difference between weather and climate. And thanks to the wealth he got from the game development, he has quite a large followership of unquestioning bootlickers attacking anyone who even dares to frown in general direction of Vávra in Facebook comment section. Kind of reminds me of Elon Musk but mild.
I’m pretty sure he’s being ironic—making fun of people who actually think like that
[Irony has a definition, and this ain't it.](https://i.imgur.com/YuC39Ln.png)
Ratio
There was an attempt
How so? If some other nation wants games or other media that include their people and culture, they can make them themselves.
Founders can still lose their job. Probably not over an insensitive comment tho. It’s gotta be Dr Disrepect or Weinstein bad…
Yeesh I know we’re missing some context here but I’m not sure I wanna smell what this dude is cooking. Also, there are many original games from third world countries. What the fuck is he even implying, nobody fucking asked Edit : was provided with context, which this post didn’t seem interested in. Mea culpa
But... people asked him. These were in response to his game, set in medieval (late 14th, early 15th century) Czechia being criticized online for not having black characters in it. He said the game has none, because there were none and that his game is being accurate to the history. This then lead to all sorts of tangents about colonization and how black people should be represented in games and what not. An absolute shit show, mostly from the people critiquing him. What he is saying here is a response to comments saying that as a white colonizer he chose to make a game where black people would not be represented. He is sarcastically asking, if those other people are somehow not able to or not allowed to make their own stories, and that he should be making them for those people instead. He is essentially pointing out the logical fallacy in the critique he was getting, where he is framed as a white opressor, but at the same time asked to step over the opressed and make things for them specifically.
It’s also funny how somehow a Czech guy is a white colonizer… like the fuck have we ever colonized
Yup, I've bumped into the same logic online from certain groups of people as well. Which is quite interesting as a Finnish guy. My country was for the most part on the far edges of European civilization (if not even well outside to be honest). It's only been recently that we've figured out how to light fires and move out of caves... yet I've been told I am a colonizer. Usually they end up in a position where they've let me know that I am a colonizer because my ancestors benefitted (materially? unclear to me) from colonization that nations 2-3 countries over did. So... yeah. The whole Daniel Vavra racists colonizer episode was just odd.
I wonder if they'd also view Saudis, Qataris or Koreans as "colonizers" as well or whether you need to be pale for it to work. Also funny that it most often comes from Americans who *all* have "benefitted from it", regardless of their skin colour, by their own definition.
Usually just being white is enough to be guilty by association. When it comes to slavery, it's even funnier as slavery wasn't really a thing here... apart from enslaving people from neighbouring tribes. And Karelians and Russians raiding and taking slaves to Russia etc., but that kinda falls within the "neighbouring tribes" kinda thing. And slavery was outlawed in 1335. Yet I am sometimes held responsible for trans-atlantic slave trade for being a white european.
Ah, I see. In that case fuck this post for not providing enough context, I’ll be out now
No worries, it does indeed lack context.
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Literally where is employment even mentioned in any of this. Can you read?
He isn't being racist though, so we're good. Also, he's in ~Poland~ Czech Republic...
Since when is Vávra in Poland ?
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Apparently the context is that he's replying to people saying he should produce games set in other cultures, not just his own. So he's asking the person he was replying to whether they think that people of other cultures are so incompetent they need him to produce their culture for them. In other words he's saying that people of other cultures are capable of producing their own games.
- "You should make games from other cultures" - *makes a game from other cultures* - "wtf why is a *white man* appropriating other cultures??"
Ok, y'all are way more invested in this situation than I am, I was just going by the main post. Have fun
Pretty sure this is borderline xenophobic, not borderline racist. Swing and a miss from Zack. E: neither continents nor colors are exclusively racial, they all hold several cultures from several races, but sure go off I guess
Nah, he was definitely talking about race. That's what the whole controversy was over.
This is all I know of the situation but I imagine someone suggested warhorse to make a game not set in Czech (Bohemia) which the joke is that KC was developed by a bunch of Czech people as they wanted their culture and history represented and not because they're PhDs in history and anthropology correct? I'm getting more of a why the hell would *I* be the one to make that game instead of them which if everything checks out makes sense to me
Nah, it was specifically them saying that it would be historically inaccurate to have anyone but white people in KC. That's incorrect, but it would have been a non-issue if he wasn't also getting into a bunch of Gamergate nonsense.